Guild Wars 2

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

snip

When i say “legitimate players” i mean "non-elitists.’ Stop taking everything so personally. An opinion is only worth as much as you can defend it. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but that doesn’t mean everyone’s opinions carry the same weight, out-right.

I could say “In my opinion, GW2 is more of a first person shooter.” If i can prove that GW2 shares similar elements with FPS’s then my opinion carries more weight. On second thought, i don’t know why i am explaining this to you.

I really don’t know anymore. We sort of got off track. Maybe we both just like arguing.

I’m simply going to chalk it up to you feel we need it, I don’t feel we do, and the only people that can make any sort of final call on it’s necessity is Anet.

by the amount of kitten-dropping you were engaged in, i venture to say only one of us likes arguing

but we can agree to disagree. However, i will also continue to actively disagree with everyone else in this thread.

I find it hilarious how many words this thing substitutes kitten for. But no, that’s just how I normally speak, especially when I argue. Why be any different here than in real life? I see no point.

And by all means, go ahead. I never figured you’d stop arguing with everyone else. The base arguments on either side don’t change, they’re pretty standard and have all been hashed and rehashed. Still interesting to read though.

Martin The Brave.8731:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Martin The Brave.8731:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Martin The Brave.8731:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Martin The Brave.8731:

This statement by Mike O’ Brien seems to be quite the opposite of what you are claiming here:

“I hope we’ve been clear that GW2 is not a game with virtually no stat progression in it like GW1 was. That’s why GW2 shipped with a higher level cap, and with a hard separation between PVE and PVP” – Mike

" GW2 was designed without those restrictions, and we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.” – Mike

" GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game." – Mike

However regardless of these statement’s, I believe you’ve state that “Raiding” was comprised of a “Smaller” section of the community. I would like to ask you: based on what MMO do you draw this assessment? And why exactly would that matter in Guildwars 2, for all we know currently “Raiding/Elite” content could be done by the majority players. If Arenanet want’s to make a game for the majority of their players I see no reason to have both “Elite” content and having “Most” players to be able to do it.

To be fair, those statements were made in response to all of the backlash from players regarding the release of Ascended Gear. Many people felt and still feel that those statements go directly against what ArenaNet originally marketed the game as.

Yes they were made after, but keep in mind that Arenanet never stated that there would be no vertical progression. People just assumed that it wouldn’t be there, and there lies the problem. Keep in mind what Mike is saying here: “I hope we’ve been clear” which seems to affirm the idea that they’ve never stated that “Progression” wont be implemented.

I am going to assume that you weren’t following the game very closely before launch. There were definitely mentions of no progression, and I cannot reference back to them because ArenaNet has literally deleted all of the records containing such.

You’ve assumed wrong, I started playing Guildwars 1 when Factions came out and have been hooked too the company ever since. When I saw the announcement of Guildwars 2 on the frontpage of Guildwars 1 login screen I have been reading almost every detail of this game. And never once did I ever see an article about not implementing “Progression”. And since you have no evidence to support your claim as of now, I don’t see any reason for anyone to take your word for it. (Not being snotty).

It was something that was discussed in some of the prelaunch videos. Back when they started releasing the feature specific ones about pillars of the world and such. Might also have been in the original manifesto video. Not that you can find these things anymore. Most have been miraculously removed. Things that make you go hmmmmm

I think you are simply mistaken here, I just looked at the Manifesto and no one talks about their not being progression so that couldn’t be it. I have these video’s saved on my computer (Catacomb video and all). I also don’t believe Arenanet deleted anything pertaining to this subject. If they did, I think it would have been known by the majority of people.

I was following this stuff religiously, so I don’t think so. Maybe, always possible.

Yes, some of the videos and blogs have been removed. There has been several discussions about it. And much condemning of Anet going back on their promises.

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

snip

When i say “legitimate players” i mean "non-elitists.’ Stop taking everything so personally. An opinion is only worth as much as you can defend it. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but that doesn’t mean everyone’s opinions carry the same weight, out-right.

I could say “In my opinion, GW2 is more of a first person shooter.” If i can prove that GW2 shares similar elements with FPS’s then my opinion carries more weight. On second thought, i don’t know why i am explaining this to you.

I really don’t know anymore. We sort of got off track. Maybe we both just like arguing.

I’m simply going to chalk it up to you feel we need it, I don’t feel we do, and the only people that can make any sort of final call on it’s necessity is Anet.

Scrambles.2604

I never said you weren’t a legitimate player.

Really? Not directly, no, but you imply by the following that people that don’t want and/or use this feature are not legitimate players. Since only legitimate players want access to and would use it.

Scrambles.2604:

• That means we should deny legitimate players access to those tools as well?*

How it was used made it sound like you were claiming that people that don’t want these tools are not legitimate players, at least in the context of the conversation at that time. If that is not what you intended, you may want to consider rewording it. Or not, entirely your call.

Scrambles.2604

I could careless about how you play or what you do with your time, as long as it doesn’t effect me. But advocating against tools i would like to see in the game that you wouldn’t use does effect me.

The same can be said for me. I don’t care how you play, or what you do with your time, but your desire for this tool COULD affect my game play just as much. I’m not saying it will or it won’t. I’m saying it could, and that is the concern.

Hell, I never said I’d never use it. I simply implied it wasn’t likely. I never thought I’d use the ping your skillbar feature in GW1, but I do all the time for sharing builds. I still don’t feel we need an /inspect when we have the ping option in GW2.

I respect your right to have an opinion, but i will only respect your opinion when you’ve proven to me that it is valid..

You do realize that by their very nature, opinions do not require any type of support or valid reasoning behind them, correct? [Even though I have provided several throughout my numerous posts) They need only be valid to the person holding that opinion, and generally speaking are not something ‘provable’ to anyone not of like mind. By not respecting my opinion, you are in fact not respecting my right to have one. As such, you have essentially stated that because you don’t agree with my opinion, which is wholly my own, it merits no credit or consideration. By that very determination, there is nothing I can say that will ever make my opinion ‘valid’ by your judgment. Sort of makes arguing the point moot, since we’re just going to go around in circles.

Martin The Brave.8731:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Martin The Brave.8731:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Martin The Brave.8731:

This statement by Mike O’ Brien seems to be quite the opposite of what you are claiming here:

“I hope we’ve been clear that GW2 is not a game with virtually no stat progression in it like GW1 was. That’s why GW2 shipped with a higher level cap, and with a hard separation between PVE and PVP” – Mike

" GW2 was designed without those restrictions, and we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.” – Mike

" GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game." – Mike

However regardless of these statement’s, I believe you’ve state that “Raiding” was comprised of a “Smaller” section of the community. I would like to ask you: based on what MMO do you draw this assessment? And why exactly would that matter in Guildwars 2, for all we know currently “Raiding/Elite” content could be done by the majority players. If Arenanet want’s to make a game for the majority of their players I see no reason to have both “Elite” content and having “Most” players to be able to do it.

To be fair, those statements were made in response to all of the backlash from players regarding the release of Ascended Gear. Many people felt and still feel that those statements go directly against what ArenaNet originally marketed the game as.

Yes they were made after, but keep in mind that Arenanet never stated that there would be no vertical progression. People just assumed that it wouldn’t be there, and there lies the problem. Keep in mind what Mike is saying here: “I hope we’ve been clear” which seems to affirm the idea that they’ve never stated that “Progression” wont be implemented.

I am going to assume that you weren’t following the game very closely before launch. There were definitely mentions of no progression, and I cannot reference back to them because ArenaNet has literally deleted all of the records containing such.

You’ve assumed wrong, I started playing Guildwars 1 when Factions came out and have been hooked too the company ever since. When I saw the announcement of Guildwars 2 on the frontpage of Guildwars 1 login screen I have been reading almost every detail of this game. And never once did I ever see an article about not implementing “Progression”. And since you have no evidence to support your claim as of now, I don’t see any reason for anyone to take your word for it. (Not being snotty).

It was something that was discussed in some of the prelaunch videos. Back when they started releasing the feature specific ones about pillars of the world and such. Might also have been in the original manifesto video. Not that you can find these things anymore. Most have been miraculously removed. Things that make you go hmmmmm

So…you’re saying if I die, say due to lag….someone else should have the ability to come up to my corpse and steal the stuff I have on me?

And that, if by chance, I’m out on my own because people I play with aren’t on, I should be S.O.L?

Dear gods, it sounds like real life.
I die…someone else gets my kitten.
I get hit by a car, end up unconscious and bleeding out, and they drive off and no one else is a round, I’m totally boned.

Yeah…no thanks.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Martin The Brave.8731:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Martin The Brave.8731:

This statement by Mike O’ Brien seems to be quite the opposite of what you are claiming here:

“I hope we’ve been clear that GW2 is not a game with virtually no stat progression in it like GW1 was. That’s why GW2 shipped with a higher level cap, and with a hard separation between PVE and PVP” – Mike

" GW2 was designed without those restrictions, and we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.” – Mike

" GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game." – Mike

However regardless of these statement’s, I believe you’ve state that “Raiding” was comprised of a “Smaller” section of the community. I would like to ask you: based on what MMO do you draw this assessment? And why exactly would that matter in Guildwars 2, for all we know currently “Raiding/Elite” content could be done by the majority players. If Arenanet want’s to make a game for the majority of their players I see no reason to have both “Elite” content and having “Most” players to be able to do it.

To be fair, those statements were made in response to all of the backlash from players regarding the release of Ascended Gear. Many people felt and still feel that those statements go directly against what ArenaNet originally marketed the game as.

Yes they were made after, but keep in mind that Arenanet never stated that there would be no vertical progression. People just assumed that it wouldn’t be there, and there lies the problem. Keep in mind what Mike is saying here: “I hope we’ve been clear” which seems to affirm the idea that they’ve never stated that “Progression” wont be implemented.

I am going to assume that you weren’t following the game very closely before launch. There were definitely mentions of no progression, and I cannot reference back to them because ArenaNet has literally deleted all of the records containing such.

I don’t think they directly called out no vertical progression. Although they did directly state they would focus on horizontal progression ‘just like GW1.’ One would think that it would be difficult to do both, since why would you waste time on horizontal if you have to continually progress vertically.

RoChan.1926:

I don’t know how long you’ve been around but prior to the 4 zerkers warriors 1 mesmer build CoF didn’t have a static set. When that min/max group was discovered it was only a handful that would shout for it and many others said to ignore them and continue on creating your own groups. Now though you can see that the min/max group is being asked for constantly and on a much larger scale that previously before. These requests dwarf the set request and even though you can still create parties without them, it’s only because we haven’t been encouraged yet to keep perpetuating the myth. With this evidence in mind, do you still believe that only a handful will use it and that it won’t effect the normal user at all? It will only serve to continue to enforce the idea that in order to run CoF p1 you need 4 zerk warriors and 1 mesmer as more and more people will be kicked before showing their skill or breaking the meta. That was what I meant about being realistic about it. We already have proof that the GW2 community cannot handle such a feature in a PvE setting.

GW1 FoW, DoA, and UW are prime examples of this issue. After the speedclear mentality sets in and the reinforcement that it’s ok to make people run cookie cutter builds, nothing else is acceptable. Unless you are taking heroes and guildies (and now, not even guildies thanks to the speed clear sickness) you can’t get a ‘balanced’ group for these things. Conform or gtfo….

Scrambles.2604:

No offense, but this is what i’ve gathered from your posts.

“I dont want to see /inspect added. I don’t plan on using it, i don’t plan on being in a situation where it would be used against me. You may want to use it, but your reasons are not good enough, because people i purposely don’t play with may use it against me.”

Well, that’s rather kitten y of you, but ok.

It doesn’t matter that I have accepted and acknowledged your points (and others), have even conceded that you have valid arguments, I’m just the kitten here it seems.

I have never stated that your reasons or any other are not good enough. I have stated that using the ‘let me play my way’ is a weak argument. I have also given my opinion with valid reasons behind my opinion.

You seem to feel that because I don’t agree with you, I am not a legitimate player. That because I may not use it, or may not group with those that use, that I have no right to offer my thoughts or preferences. The keyword there is ‘may.’

Yes, I have declared that I am against it, and have argued heatedly my reasons as to why. But never once have I EVER told anyone that their opinion was wrong, invalid, or not good enough for being for it.

I will agree to disagree with you on whether or not this feature should be implemented and to its usefulness in general. However, I will not argue with an kitten that opts to attack me as a person when he cannot refute my argument or make me change my view. You don’t want to see my view, fine, but you aren’t going to change my opinion

There’s a thread for this under suggestions. Actually there have been several, and they have all been merged….

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Broadicea.8294:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No, I don’t care to group with Elitists, but I don’t care to enable them either. I don’t want to reinforce that their ‘attitude’ is ok, when it in fact is not.

Its like giving a crack addict his next dosage. Are you an addict no? So it doesn’t affect you right? Wrong.

You don’t hand someone trying to commit suicide a gun or a razor blade.

You don’t enable the behavior that you are trying to reduce/get rid of.

Why can’t you let us play the way we want to play? You won’t be in our groups, we won’t bother you in map chat, in fact you’ll only ever glimpse us as we pass by each other in Lion’s Arch. Why do you have to be so controlling?

Why can’t you let me play how I want to play? I want to not have to worry about someone giving me crap because I choose to wear x over y, or because I choose to use a staff over daggers.

Why are you so controlling in telling me that I have to accept being inspected, whether I want to or not. Even if not by you specifically, by someone else. Potentially someone that has nothing to do with my play, just wants to be a kitten to someone.

The ‘let me play my way’ argument goes both ways. Your desire for /inspect infringes on my desire to be /inspect free. Both arguments are valid and have merit. However, its also the weakest argument that one can offer.

What if i told you, you could get /inspected without even noticing.

mindblown

Already addressed that in a previous post.

Broadicea.8294:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No, I don’t care to group with Elitists, but I don’t care to enable them either. I don’t want to reinforce that their ‘attitude’ is ok, when it in fact is not.

Its like giving a crack addict his next dosage. Are you an addict no? So it doesn’t affect you right? Wrong.

You don’t hand someone trying to commit suicide a gun or a razor blade.

You don’t enable the behavior that you are trying to reduce/get rid of.

Why can’t you let us play the way we want to play? You won’t be in our groups, we won’t bother you in map chat, in fact you’ll only ever glimpse us as we pass by each other in Lion’s Arch. Why do you have to be so controlling?

Why can’t you let me play how I want to play? I want to not have to worry about someone giving me crap because I choose to wear x over y, or because I choose to use a staff over daggers.

Why are you so controlling in telling me that I have to accept being inspected, whether I want to or not. Even if not by you specifically, by someone else. Potentially someone that has nothing to do with my play, just wants to be a kitten to someone.

The ‘let me play my way’ argument goes both ways. Your desire for /inspect infringes on my desire to be /inspect free. Both arguments are valid and have merit. However, its also the weakest argument that one can offer.

Hawkian.6580:

There should be Borderlands-style, consequence-free dueling anywhere in the open world (not cities). BAM.

There’s a whole thread on open world dueling…. this doesn’t belong here.

No, I don’t care to group with Elitists, but I don’t care to enable them either. I don’t want to reinforce that their ‘attitude’ is ok, when it in fact is not.

Its like giving a crack addict his next dosage. Are you an addict no? So it doesn’t affect you right? Wrong.

You don’t hand someone trying to commit suicide a gun or a razor blade.

You don’t enable the behavior that you are trying to reduce/get rid of.

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

In no way does a debate on an inspect function in any way equate to a debate on gay marriage. It’s a false comparison.

The point was about advocating against something that doesn’t effect you. People that advocate against gay marriage won’t be effected by gays being able to marry, just like the people that advocate against /inspect won’t be effected by the addition of that tool.

Am i the only one here that is curious what gear people are wearing and how it’s socketed, that also doesn’t have every skin in the game memorized? Why does everyone assume this tool will only be used for maliciousness?

I don’t assume that is will only be used maliciously. I’m concerned that it will be used more for malicious purposes than positive ones, and general human nature does support this concern. (Crap, just looking at some of the community supports this concern)

I guess I might be ok with it, if it only showed the skin information, but if you transmogged it and someone checks you out, are they going to assume you transmogged it, or that you’re wearing crap armor? Like you said, you have already run into this issue, being called a noob because your armor LOOKED low level. (Hmmm, didn’t I say something somewhere along the lines about judging books by their covers and first impressions….)

TooBz.3065:

This fear may be unfounded, but it’s enough that we don’t want to take the risk.

I would not say that this fear is unfounded at all…. There have been plenty of posts on here (non-trolls) that reinforce our reasons for concern. While yes, the forum is but a very small percentage of the player base, still…we really don’t to encourage those mentalities in the general community.

I don’t have an issue with the desire for content for larger structured groups….ie raids. I only take issue with such things when discrimination and exclusion come into play, which sadly is very common in MMOs.

“Oh you haven’t ever done it before? I’m not taking you”
“Go roll x class”
“Get better gear”

So on and so forth, all things we already have issues with in other areas, but those are other threads.

However, I do like this type of play. I enjoyed the 2-team missions in GW1, I enjoyed Urgoz and even The Deep. All required larger, coordinated team play (before easy mode). I would not have an issue having similar aspects in GW2, and perhaps we will.

Anet has said that there would be “no raids” in GW2; however, I do feel they were specifically addressing WoW style raids – gear locking, etc. After all, they have already started including content for ‘larger groups’ to address the concerns of larger guilds, and large DE events are (in a sense) open world raids anyway.

Ratty.5176:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

That would require them to read and understand said message. How many people do you think actually read the terms of service for example? Same issue….

Isn’t this easy? They Just make a forum for the Arena, and then ignore it.

Oh gods….I can already hear the whining…..

-goes to find some Aleve-

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

The way i see it, you are advocating against a tool you don’t plan on using, and since you don’t do a lot of dungeons and tend to play by yourself it is likely not to effect you.

No offense, but this reminds me of people who are against gay-marriage because they think it will ruin the sanctity of hetero marriages, when it reality it wont effect them at all.

Whether I personally use it or not, I do still have the right to express my opinion on the topic. Share my experience with previous similar tools, and offer thoughtful debate either for or against, so long as it is constructive and valid in its presentation. All of which I have done.

Just because I ‘may not’ use it, does not mean that it does not necessarily affect me. Like I said, I don’t generally do dungeons, but sometimes I ‘have’ to (MF for example). If I ever want to finish the Destiny’s Edge storyline, I will need to finish the story paths for each dungeon, which I do intend to do…otherwise the completionist in me would never rest.

Just because ‘it doesn’t affect you’ doesn’t mean you don’t have an opinion. Doesn’t mean you don’t have a right to that opinion. Gay marriage doesn’t affect me, but I say go for it. Gay people should have the right to be just as miserable/happy (cause it goes both ways) in marriage as straight couples are.

Now think about how you feel about people that are against Gay-marriage and their reasoning for it and maybe you might understand where i’m coming from.

I played SWTOR back before they added DPS parsing, and everyone was saying the exact same thing. “Don’t add DPS parsing, this game isn’t about the numbers! It would only give more tools to elitists!! It will ruin the community!!”

Well, they added DPS parsing anyway and the community didn’t suddenly turn toxic. The casuals continued to play with the casuals and the raiders used DPS parsing for in-depth theory crafting.

When people claim adding a tool will ruin a community, this is based on their experiences with an already crappy community (cough, WoW). These claims are based on negative associations with the worst of worst players, which also make up a minority of the overall player base. More importantly, claims about tools fostering a toxic community have no empirical backing and are only perpetuated by forum hear-say.

I’m neither saying that the effect will be immediate, nor that the issue doesn’t already exist. I am simply voicing that it isn’t going to make it better either. Personal experience tends to make me lean towards it making it worse. Heck pure, simple human nature tends to lead one to believe that it will make things worse. You are inserting a tool that will enable the crappy people to be crappier to others around them.

Sure, you will have people like from your example, that will use it as it is intended to be used. But they can do that stuff now, they don’t need an ‘additional’ tool for it. Will it make it ‘easier’ oh sure, doesn’t make it a ‘necessity’ though.

While I do see your view, and can concede that there are potential positives, I don’t feel those outweigh the potential negatives of such a tool. This is just my 2 cents though, you don’t have to agree. I am perfectly fine with accepting and valuing your opinion while still holding onto my own. =)

Scrambles.2604:

The way i see it, you are advocating against a tool you don’t plan on using, and since you don’t do a lot of dungeons and tend to play by yourself it is likely not to effect you.

No offense, but this reminds me of people who are against gay-marriage because they think it will ruin the sanctity of hetero marriages, when it reality it wont effect them at all.

Whether I personally use it or not, I do still have the right to express my opinion on the topic. Share my experience with previous similar tools, and offer thoughtful debate either for or against, so long as it is constructive and valid in its presentation. All of which I have done.

Just because I ‘may not’ use it, does not mean that it does not necessarily affect me. Like I said, I don’t generally do dungeons, but sometimes I ‘have’ to (MF for example). If I ever want to finish the Destiny’s Edge storyline, I will need to finish the story paths for each dungeon, which I do intend to do…otherwise the completionist in me would never rest.

Just because ‘it doesn’t affect you’ doesn’t mean you don’t have an opinion. Doesn’t mean you don’t have a right to that opinion. Gay marriage doesn’t affect me, but I say go for it. Gay people should have the right to be just as miserable/happy (cause it goes both ways) in marriage as straight couples are.

Scrambles.2604:

Voice chat is just as optional as inspect.

Inspect is not optional. Anyone can /inspect me at any time…without me knowing if they are even doing it. (And gods, please no annoying ‘so and so wants to inspect your armor’ pop ups). If we have the option to shut it off….how many people do you think are going to annoy you with ‘what are you afraid of? why won’t you let me /inspect you? come on chicken-kitten, show me what you got’ Ugh, bad WoW flash backs.

If someone is harassing you, mute/ignore them.

You’re aware that there is a limit to the ignore list right? Most people will probably agree that “most” of the players you meet in game are kittens, but you have to sift through the bad ones to find the few good ones. Still, if I tried putting all the bad ones on ignore, they wouldn’t all fit. [Maybe it’s just my luck. I’m naturally abrasive and opinionated -grin-)

If someone boots you because of your gear i ASSURE you that you are better off not playing with them. If this thread has shown anything, you are among like-minded players, and should have no problem grouping with someone who doesn’t care about your gear. I would recommend that you stop trying to play with people that dont want to play with you.

I avoid dungeon runs that call for specific class/gear and have never had an issue. I intentionally group with like minded people. One time, someone was acting like a jerk to someone else in my group, SO I LEFT! I’m not going to choose to play with people like that!

The only issue i have had in a dungeon, was being called a noob because of the gear it APPEARED i was wearing. My gear may look like a mix of blues/greens, when it is actually just transmuted full-exotics. That wouldn’t have happened with /inspect.

I don’t do dungeons (unless I absolutely have to) – too many kittens. I tried a few times…I really did. I was polite, I took suggestions, I asked questions, checked the wiki for guidance so I wasn’t completely without knowledge. Anet, give me back my kitten heroes!

I don’t do fractals – too many elitist kittens. Won’t even go near it.

Open world, I have no issues jumping into the mobs for DEs. I have no issues running around aimlessly for hours randomly helping people, but generally speaking, I play alone. Or with my husband when he opts to play.

Even being among ‘like minded’ individuals, most still aren’t into my play style. I like ‘stopping to smell the roses.’ I like taking my time and killing everything, not just speeding to the end boss (partly why 9 months later I STILL aint killed Zaitahn). I stop to talk (cause I can’t play and type) which slows EVERYbody down. I stop to help people out. I wander off on random tangents (my husband hates this). I’m a very odd player, and my sense of humor is only shared by select few.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Ratty.5176:

It’s not at all about balance though. A free for all with no rules is just that, a free for all.

What it does allow is for a mate to go, “I have real problem with X class in WvW/PvP, you play that kind of build, want to pop to the arena and let me try some ideas out.”

Or a guild to go, “lets all go to a the Arena and play circle of treachery” (last man standing, normally very funny as what generally happens is the weak players team up on the strongest player, but you are never sure when they are going to stab their “compatriots” in the back.)

In other words, it allows the community to run fun events, without many restrictions.

this would be nice.

also, make players read and sign some message stating that “no balance requests” will be entertained in the arena blah blah blah etc.

That would require them to read and understand said message. How many people do you think actually read the terms of service for example? Same issue….

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Edit: Side note….I actually have no issues with in game voice chat. I’m all for that.

Why add a voice chat? It would just be a tool that enables more elitism. The negative effects of it destroying our perfect community outweigh the increased accessibility of communication. Personally, i am a fast typer and have no need for voice chat. So, only elitists and bullies would use it to hurt my feelings. And if you really want to voice chat you can just use mumble or teamspeak. Do you see where i’m going with this?

There’s a big difference here. Voice chat is completely optional. You don’t have to use it. No one can force you to use it, and if you opt to use it and they are kitten-bags, you log off of it.

You have NO SAY in someone /inspecting your armor, whenever and wherever they please. You have no say in someone booting you because you don’t conform to their standards even though perhaps they didn’t say they wanted x-y-z or you’re on par with their DPS, but they just don’t your setup. Yes, we have these issues already. I am saying that /inspect will make it worse.

“Judge not the book by its cover” and this is EXACTLY what inspect lets you do. First impressions are more often than not wrong, yet we still let them color our judgement. Don’t you think its time we rise above base human nature and be something better?

Scrambles.2604:

A lack of self-confidence leads to conforming to a specific build. Saying /inspect leads to cookie cutter builds is like saying that the Chat Window fosters elitism and leads to cookie cutter builds.

“This dude messaged me and told me my build sucks. We should get rid of in-game messaging, so people can’t criticize my build and force me to play their way.”

Bullies and bad mannered players will always force their will on you. It is up to YOU to stand up to them. We do this already by forming our own “all classes welcome” CoF runs.

Jerks and “elitists” will use whatever tools they have available to them, whether it is DPS meters, /inspect, text-chat, or even /spit emotes. This shouldn’t be a reason to deny the rest of the player base valuable tools.

If you enjoy your own, non-cookie cutter build so much, you should be able to defend your conscious decisions in choosing your gear and build. You should also avoid putting yourself in positions where people would criticize you gear. If you want to avoid elitists, stop trying to sneak into full-zerker runs.

What if Anet wanted to add in-game voice chat? Would we say no, because it would allow elitists to call us out through another medium besides text chat?

Oh I have no issue defending my choices…in GW1 or in GW2, and do so quite vocally. As I have said many times, we are more than the gear we wear and the weapon we choose. However I, and those like me, get cast out simply because we don’t conform. Plain and simple. It happens in EVERY game you play. We simply would like to curtail it as much as we possibly can in this one. Not enabling those mentalities is one such way of doing this, ie not giving them tools to make it EASIER.

People may claim all they wish, that the /inspect feature is just a benign way of not wasting time (theirs or yours) and I call bullkitten every time. Ok some people might actually use it in such a way, but the vast majority will not. They will abuse it and treat other players like garbage because they don’t conform. That is what this type of tool enables. We did just fine without in GW1, we do just fine without it now in GW2. It. Is. Not. Needed.

It is only a ‘valuable’ tool if it is used in a productive, useful manner by the majority. Which, in my personal experience, the /inspect tool almost never is. (I cannot think of any ‘value’ to a /spit emote except to be crude and abusive to another player. Polite people don’t spit in public)

Oh, and I have never (and will never) join a ‘zerker’ run. Nor ‘sneak into’ one. Personally, I’d love to see all speed clears abolished, BUT that’s just me. I realize some people enjoy them, so…so be it. My concern is such things getting out of hand….again. But that conversation is a whole different thread.

Edit: Side note….I actually have no issues with in game voice chat. I’m all for that.

penatbater.4710:

Aye, bullies can even use Zomorros to antagonize other players if possible. The question is, why are we giving them the tools in the first place? Is the need of legitimate players so great that we would be willing to accept this evil? Would the harm it cause justify the good it brings?

It’s interesting that he calls out that this tool is necessary for ‘legitimate’ players. So….the rest of us are not legitimate players? lawl

kokiman.2364:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

kokiman.2364:

Well if A.Net made it official they would be held responsible for balance issues. You can’t balance professions around 1vs1, sPvP and WvWvW at once.

what if, they would not need to be held responsible for balance issues?

it would be a “take it as it is” basics.

This would never work.

MMORPGS tend to have a really awful community.

I’m going to have to agree here.

I have no issue with 1v1 arenas. I have no issues with people opting to use their pve gear instead of pvp gear in that arena.

However, because the game isn’t balanced around 1v1, you’re going to quickly see some class inequities, which are going to make the players kitten, and loudly at that.

“Why can’t x class beat y class? y class is over powered, nerf it!”

At which point 1 of 2 things is going to happen:
1) Anet is going to ignore it (because that’s not how they balance), and people are going to get POed.
OR
2) They are going to try to ‘adjust’ to make that player group happy and make everyone else POed. (and potentially throw things all out of whack)

They are kittened it they do, kittened it they don’t.

That’s right….it’s all about how fast you can get to the cookie. “Gimme my rewards now kitten!”

/inspect encourages the mentality that we all must conform to a specific class/armor/spec/build and that to be different is somehow wrong.

“You must be x class”
“You must have x armor”
“You must have x weapon”
“You must have x, y, and z utilities”
“You must have x points in y trait, with options a, d, and f”

Nothing else will suffice. Nothing else is ‘ok.’

We already have issues with segregation, discrimination, and elitist attitudes. We do not need to make it worse by giving them things to make it easier.

-1 for /inspect

@Scramble – There have been far too many ‘add this feature’ requests because ‘x’ other game has it. We don’t need it, and many don’t want it, and there is nothing wrong with that. You want that feature, fine go play ‘x’ other game. Just because they have it doesn’t mean we should.

If we start down that road we may as well throw out all the unique things because people aren’t going to want those anyway….they’re ‘too different’

Lol

Yes, would definitely like to see more cinematics here….

The Talcmaster.7391:

you have changed the question to an absolute one that nobody in any sort of PR position would say, due to said pitchforks. Really, if you’re just concerned about being right and proving me wrong, the burden of proof lies with you.

No, you stated that when asked, ‘he’ gave a direct no. Implying that the question asked was if they would ever do an expansion, and the direct answer was a ‘no’ they would not be. Read your own comment “when asked a yes or no question, he gave a no” If this is not what you meant to be inferred from your comment (as we were talking about whether or not they would ever do a paid expansion) you should clarify.

In the pre-launch videos, it is stated that they will do paid expansions eventually

Colin has said it on the forum, but I’m not digging that deeply for it

Martin says here that yes, they have said they would do a paid expansion at some point (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-Expansion-targeted-for-2013/first#post1391159)

And Regina later states that the information Martin provided is still accurate, in this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-expansion-1Q-Ncsoft-Conference-Call-merged/page/3

While it is true that I cannot find anywhere that says they won’t, having said repeatedly that they will (just not when) and having NCSoft accidentally saying one is in the works and then retracting it… Yeah, both companies wouldn’t be saying ‘oh yeah ones coming, just not right now’ if in fact it were not true.

The Talcmaster.7391:

Pitchforking aside, when asked a yes or no question, he gave a no.

Please provide your source where Anet has firmly stated that there would be no paid expansions, ever.

Thanks Regina.

So, nothing was changed ‘intentionally,’ but there might have been a bug introduced with other changes. Is this something one of the devs could look into for us? Since it seems a lot of people feel something is off. Just some type of confirmation that everything is working as intended would be great.

I disagree. Not on the table could simply be that they have an idea, a plan, but havent’ started working on it yet. It could also just be a means of shutting up the people whining about wanting one.

They aren’t going to come out and tell us that they are planning an expansion until its well along on its way. Why? Because people will want deadlines, details, etc, and aren’t happy with ‘when its done’. As Colin has stated in several recent posts, they don’t like giving time estimates because people come after them with pitchforks if, heaven forbid, something sets them back (and we all know that is relatively common in development)

Just because they stated that they have the next years worth of living story planned out, doesn’t necessarily mean everything they are working on is. Besides, even ‘if’ everything IS planned out, nothing ever runs completely according to plan AND we don’t necessarily know all the details of their plan. It would be foolhardy to fully disclose everything.

The Talcmaster.7391:

Considering Factions came out about a year after Prophecies, I wouldn’t say this is an outrageous pace, especially considering the number of people working on GW2 is far larger than it was when GW1 had been out this long. Colin more or less said that they have no plans to make another expansion in an interview before.

What was stated was that they are not looking at an expansion ‘right now.’ They will have paid expansions, that’s already been discussed and that horse beaten to death. Expansions are ‘coming’ they just aren’t on the table ‘right now.’

With GW1, they had 2 completely separate teams building the games. 1 team built prophecies, the 2nd built factions, the 1st made nightfall. Leap frogging each other. While they have more people now, I don’t think they are going about production the same way. They have a lot of small teams working on the various components – pve, wvw, pvp, polish, bugs, testing, living story, etc. That’s not to say that they don’t have ‘some’ people working on an expansion (quietly), but it’s not something they have devoted a lot of resources to, from their previous statements. As such, I don’t think it’s like to see an expansion this soon.

But as far as what the OP was saying, I would like a little bit more in the way of cutscenes. I don’t mind admiring the exquisite detail of the character models and the impeccable lipsyncing the player races have (if you watch the lipsync outside of the cutscenes, it’s much more GW1 creepy marionette style). But it would be nice to have more cinematic cutscenes reminiscent of the really cool preview trailers they made.

I would also like to see more in the way of actual cinematics, similar to what we had in GW1 (in later years where lip movements and speech lined up, etc). They did have a couple of small ones in F&F, which I felt was a step in the right direction. Perhaps we will see more as the Living Story ramps up and further arcs are released. Of course, we can hope for actual cinematics in an expansion too, but I’d like more of them sooner, rather than later.

To me, the living story is more the story of the world. The day to day stuff that happens in Tyria. The Flame Legion teams up with the Dregde because they’ve been thrown out on their kittens and lack the Iron Legion’s ability to make war machines. We step in and end that debacle. Now, the Consortium is playing opportunist and forcing the displaced refugees into a sort of indentured servitude. We have to step in to defuse that situation while also figuring out why the wildlife is suddenly up in arms and trying to obliterate everyone on the island (more so than normal) and then deal with ‘that’ issue too. It’s like side quests in the static game, but like real life, isn’t something you will be able to do forever.

On the other hand, an expansion should offer more on the Elder Dragons. The next ‘great adventure’ to kill the Destroyer or Jormag. A more intensive, epic storyline, which further grows your character, offering more insight and depth to the personal story. This should be built on top of what you’ve already done (and if you haven’t killed the first dragon, you shouldn’t be able to do it kind of thing.)

Drastically different things in my view. Now, could the living story lead up to the expansion. Oh yeah, I should hope so.

Scrambles.2604:

Inspect tool doesn’t encourage “elitist” parties. It is just conventional wisdom that only “elitists” will use /inspect. God forbid i don’t have every armor/weapon skin in this game memorized, and i would like to see what someone is using without bothering them.

I’d had this thought as well; however if I know class and gender, I can easily go look up armors. There are numerous armor galleries on the webz for GW2 these days. Even in mix-and-match sets, you can generally determine what they are wearing (with the shoes or gloves possibly being an exception, depending on pants and coat hiding them)

I’m going to open a PTSD clinic for people who have been abused by elitists. “Please, have a seat and tell me how the elitist usurped your keyboard and forced you to play his way.”

Then:
“GLF 300+ T2, T3, E/Mo to go”
“GLF 100b only”
“GLF Panic Me, Imbagon, and 2 r8 Glaive, rits only”
“Sorry, you don’t have enough stones” -booted-
“Ping your skillbar…..” -booted-
“Ping your armor….” -booted-
“Why aren’t you running x?” -booted-

Now:
“GLF 100b only”
“GLF Me only”
“GLF G and W”
“Why aren’t you running x?” -booted-
“Ping your armor….” -booted-
“Why don’t you have x in y trait and z skill” -booted-

Some things never change….

Loke.1429:

About PVP: First of all, Anet has made a great game, with great pvp. This is in no way intended to belittle that. I only seek to point out possible improvements as I see them. As I see it, all the pvp modes (spvp & wvw) of this game revolve around defending points: rings (spvp) or towers with rings in them (wvw).

What a true pvp’er really seeks in a game can differ, but in my opinion it is confrontation, or a way to directly show or measure skill. This is all in favor of PVP modes that make offense or assualt the superior choice.

Some of my favorite pvp arenas in GW1 were AB, FA, and JQ. These revolved around taking points, defending points, and retaking those points if lost. (Arguable for FA depending on side, but lets face it for Kurzick, you cap the amber, kill the turtle and fix the door. For Luxon, you defend the turtle, cap the amber, and break down the door. Still capping and defending here) Perhaps this makes me a -non-true’ pvper, but meh.

I do agree that GW2 needs some additional modes. I’d be perfectly content if they would take a page out of the old GW1 book for arena modes: RA, GVG, HA.

1. Inspecting other characters equipment, necessary for serious guilds wvw/pve, and pug pve.

No it’s really not. This leads to poor attitudes overall, elitism, and discrimination. It didn’t fix the same/similar issues in GW1 that people are under the impression that it will fix here. Just because you can see someone’s armor or traits does not mean you know anything about how that person plays. If you have an issue taking someone you don’t know, I guess you can use the same advice everyone throws at me….only do it with your guild. If the guild won’t let you in because you don’t pass an armor inspection….just wow, I wouldn’t want to be in that guild anyway. We are more than the armor we wear, and the weapon we use.

1. Ingame Mail Cash on Delivery, would enable safe transactions (trade) outside the Trading Post, and therefore without the commissions.

They removed direct person to person trading purposely. I don’t see them implementing it in this round-about-way when they want you to use the trading post.

1. An action bar on the right hand side of the screen (maybe 5 slots?), as an optional part of the interface – for food, oils, and gear (for quicker use, gearswap).

I could see for foods and such, letting it apply the next in line after the previous runs out. Not sure how much work this would actually entail, but I don’t see it being a ‘simple’ implementation. (Lot of working components have to be taken into account).

I don’t think for gear swapping would work though, it wouldn’t function in the same manner as a food or oil buff (which is on a timer). Telling it to gear swap would end up being a manual thing, unless you would want it to automatically swap your gear as soon as you came out of combat mode? I think having some sort of savable armor template would be more appropriate for that.

They do polish, bug updates, etc with each update. There is nothing saying that more weapons and skills won’t also be rolled out in these updates.

However, they do need to focus on the core game before they work on an expansion. More pvp options, get most of the bugs fixed, make sure all the base mechanics / loot scaling / etc are working smoothly (and as intended), continue with rolling out the living story, and so on BEFORE they try adding an expansion on top of it. Otherwise, it will just compound the issues that people are already griping about.

I wouldn’t even say that they are ‘mainly’ focused on the living story, but that’s just my 2 cents there. We don’t know one way or the other really.

Its less than a year old…..and you want an expansion….

This is not GW1….they aren’t going to hand you a new game every 6 months. They’re doing something different this time around

Edit: Don’t get me wrong, and expansion would be nifty, but at this point it would probably be terribly rushed and not up to par for what we really want to see.

While I can agree with a hug emote, and can even congratulate you on your twins…..the rest, yeah….no.

If you want to marry another character and breed, there are many other games that suit your desires. I would much prefer if we keep that crap out of GW2.

Im Mudbone.1437:

I’m FAR from being an elitist or pessimistic, I’m a glass half full kind of guy, I just tried to offer my opinion for pure PvE players that do that 100% of the time and nothing else your snide reply was a bit much.

It was intended to be. Thus the sarcasm slash. Wasn’t specifically referring to you with the elitist comment, btw.

But specifically designating a ‘pve’ only server would open up a whoooole new can of kitten from people on this forum.

JoxerNL.3752:

Thank you.

You’re welcome

Sorry for the snappishness. All the pessimistic doomsayers / elitist idiots get me riled. XD

JoxerNL.3752:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

They claim Anvil Rock is ‘dead’ too and it’s mid tier. I play pve 90% of the time and have no issue finding people. So perception =/= truth.

You seem to be hellbent to forcing your opinion onto others, while the only thing I asked for in my “initial” post was : If there was any word from ANet about doing anything against the dead servers, I am not interested in a “debate” about which server is dead or which is not, i simply was inquiring if there was any word yet from Anet about the situation.

The issue with your question is that you ‘assume’ those servers to be dead though, by directly calling out the ‘bottom tiered’ servers. I was simply arguing that they may not be, even though you perceive them to be.

Anywho, I’ve not seen anything official from Anet in regards to what they would do in the event that a server merge was needed. Probably won’t until that time comes around, if it comes around. They are usually pretty good about heads up on things like that, imo.

Im Mudbone.1437:

IMO, they should have a DEDICATED PvE ONLY server for those that want/does only PvE and nothing else.

And 1 for spvp only…with no pve access at all
And 1 for wvw only….oh wait, will need at least 3 for this
And 1 strictly for RPers, with no access to pvp of any type
And 1 for pvpve…the people that want open world dueling and other open world gank fests

Oh, I’m sorry, you want a place where you can access any of those if you feel like it? We can’t accommodate that.

The one you want is full? Sorry, we don’t have enough people to open another dedicated server for your play style. You’ll need to make due with one of the others.

/end sarcasm

My point is that even on the lowest tiered servers, there are still those that do participate in wvw, and spvp, and pve. If they had an issue with their rank/population, they’d pay to move or try to recruit people to their server (which some may actually do). With unlimited guesting its really hard to determine how much population a server truly has, just because it’s at the bottom of the ladder doesn’t make it “dead”

JoxerNL.3752:

Your welcome to run around on some of the lowest tier servers
PvE that is, they -are- dead, ironically the best way to see it is in how well they perform in wvw, for some reason the desolate servers are at the bottom of the wvwvw listing aswell.

Also I nowhere in my initial post mentioned anything about wvw, simply said “lowest tiered” servers, and then remarked how those people have to guets to other realms to get things done, which i thought was enough “indication” i was talking about PvE.

They claim Anvil Rock is ‘dead’ too and it’s mid tier. I play pve 90% of the time and have no issue finding people. So perception =/= truth.

So….because a server doesn’t ‘rank up’ in WvW….you assume it must be dead? Not that the people don’t really care about WvW and might rather do other things….

Mungrul.9358:

Gods, I used to love running Mesmer in JQ.
Wastrel’s Worry / Demise, Empathy, Chaos Storm, Backfire, Diversion, Power Block and Guilt or Shame for energy management.
Huge spike on the actual quarry guards thanks to the Wastrel’s and Chaos Storm, with an interrupt from Guilt / Diversion / Power Block to ensure they had the full effect.

For other players, there was the classic “kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you don’t” conundrum of the Wastrel’s skills combined with Backfire, Power Block and Guilt/Shame. Many a monk or necro bomber would rage-quit under my tender ministrations.

Finished off with a little Empathy to keep those ever persistent sins and wammos in line.

And people think Mesmer is OP in PvP here. Imagine the crying if they were even half as competent as they were in the original game.
Confusion has nothing on the Wastrel’s / Backfire combo of the original game.
Diversion mixed with Power Block ensured that if you got the right skill, you could end up crippling most gimmick builds completely, insuring they couldn’t fire off any skills, leaving them ripe for the Wastrel’s combo again.

It was truly a thing of beauty.

Unfortunately, while still reasonably effective in PvE, Mesmer didn’t have that same kick behind it when there weren’t real people getting upset at you shutting them down.
It was the ultimate trolling class

I ran a very similar build. No empathy, and I swapped in Psychic Instability for shrine capping purposes. Of course, hitting a sin with that on their lead or finisher attack….hehehehehe. (Only funnier if you hit the lead and they still try to finish the combo after they get up and can’t figure out why they aren’t doing any dmg)

Yes, definitely the class I play if I feel like being pure annoyance.

kitten it caster, why are you running away? Come play with me!

OMG I want one! Probably won’t be able to get one…. I don’t get paid until Friday. =(

Calae.1738:

We all play for different reasons.

/Agree

Calae.1738:

Some of these reasons change on the same day.

Lol yup, can /agree there too

Calae.1738:

Sometimes I want to play to win; other times I want to laugh with friends.

Sill on the same page here…

Calae.1738:

When I play to win I expect the best. I don’t expect to carry dead weight on my shoulders.

An inspect command isn’t going to help you here.

Like I said, you could take someone with exactly the gear/build/whatever that you want, and still fail miserably.

Just because someone chooses a different option does not make them ‘dead weight’ just like someone that specs exactly as expected could be dead more than alive, and therefore dead weight. /inspect is not going to solve your problem.

Edit: I guess I should also point out that it didn’t really solve the problem in GW1 either. Just lead to a lot of discrimination and overall kitten-head attitudes.

In some instances, the animation is actually accurate. You would use a hoe to potentially harvest some things – carrots, potatoes, turnips, etc – rather than a sickle. Sickles are more for wheat and such. You wouldn’t even use a sickle for berries, unless you were harvesting the whole plant, which you aren’t So technically, none of the animations work 100%.

tigirius.9014:

Casuals are not bad players.

Generally speaking, I rarely (if ever) agree with tigirius, however, I have to agree with the above quoted line.

Beyond that, while I feel that the game is casual friendly, it is not optimized just for casual players. The game supports many play styles from the couple times a month player to the hard-core everyday grinder. But that’s just my opinion.

Calae.1738:

The feeling is mutual my friend; believe me.

I don’t like playing with people that choose abilities because they look nice or the color of the butterflies matches their dress.

I don’t think I’ve ever run into anyone that picked skills for those particular reasons… Although, in GW1, I did run into an E/R that to this day, I share his skill bar just for the laugh.

But, in regards to GW2, for those that are going to fail that spectacularly, no build or armor could possible help them…ever. They could be speced exactly as desired, and still be nothing more than minion fodder (figuratively speaking, since we don’t actually need bodies for minions anymore -scowl-).

Yet, at the same time you could have taken someone in say…all rare armor of appropriate level, had a blast because they are a cool person, and still get through the content.

An inspect command isn’t going to give you that information. All an inspect command is going to do is make you more inclined to take person A over person B because they are geared/speced appropriately to your narrow view of ‘correctness’

Disclaimer – ‘you’ is used in the general sense. Not specifically aimed at individual poster.

I had a relatively long response originally, but it got ‘eaten’ when I hit post replay. -scowl-

So, I’ll simply say welcome back and I’m glad you opted to give it another shot. In the end, only the person interested can decide whether or not the game is something they like, or don’t like, and they should make that decision without other’s opinions trying to color their view.

Calae.1738:

Too many casuals will probably disagree with this.

It’s much better to remain hidden and not talk; not contribute. Especially when you’re wearing terrible equipment; specced into the worst traits and using the worst utilities.

lol yup

Because the ‘elitists’ know exactly how we should play. What class we should roll, what traits to take, what weapon (down to the specific skin even) that we should be using, what gear should be worn – down to the insignia and runes.

Oh yeah, I love having someone else dictate how I play my character.

No thanks.