Guild Wars 2

So my 3rd WPvP movie, made in similiar fashion as my first two so if you have seen those you already know what to expect. Hope you enjoy it, let me know if you like it, you can leave feedback/questions here or on youtube.
Software, music etc. in youtube description.
At the moment don`t have plans/time for 4th but who knows.

wiazabi.2549:

Why is Death Shroud / plaqueform / lichform stomp still being suggested as solution to this?

The way to do the stomp can in no way by anyone be seen as proper use and is pretty much just exploiting untill the time ANET figures out how to remove the ability or give us a proper option to do this.

You cant res in Death shroud you cant stomp in Death shroud but hey if your skilled enough to hit the buttons at same time you can………….cmon please.

Where did they said that its not intended this way? Starting stomp then shadowstepping away and back is not exploit but entering DS at same time as stomping is exploit? Maybe they didnt intend to remove shroudstomp but just make it harder. This game has a lot of hidden tricks that you cant just read in tooltip, and anet likes it that way which you can say just by looking at PVP maps where is alot of hidden spots where you can jump up and ledges where you can teleport up.

Edit: Another great example is dodge jump, back in beta when noone knew about this anet didnt mention it cause prolly they didnt know it themselves, and instead of fixing it they made it part of game, now there are spots in multiple pvp maps where you can get only by dodge jump and they even mentioned it in SAB tips. If anet considers something an exploit they fix it otherwise its just smart use of game mechanics.

Death shroud is class mechanic on 10 sec CD not utility on 75 sec.
How can you even ask why ele can do this and we cant? Its like asking why mesmer can stealth and we cant.
Now i hope you understand why it would be logical if we wouldnt be able to shroudstomp/res, but we are able to. If pressing 2 buttons at same time is problem to you then you rolled wrong profession.
=) <— adding smiley so people dont attack me with invalid accusations again.

And btw Noerknhar this is your topic so you started the comparing, we have no idea either why you compare elementalist utility to our class mechaninc

Hope they really implement this and then we could negotiate with devs about trading all these buffs for fix that elites does not destroy minions, cause thats my top wish atm.

Bhawb.7408:

You can say there are loads of hardcore theorycrafters, but if they don’t make posts on forums showing the math and then gameplay footage of how X build doesn’t work, then how is their opinion something you can cite to back up your opinion? Unless you can show that builds don’t work, you can’t say they are unviable, and that is a very difficult thing to actually do.

WTF, these rules apply to me but not to you? The fact that noone plays a build isnt enough and i need gameplay footage that it DOESNT work, yet build is totally viable just cause Nemesis said so…. can you at least give me footage where Nemesis himself plays hes builds in PVP not even talking about serious PVP players?

Discussing something with you is useless, your trying to tell me that theres 3 viable builds that every necro plays and then theres alot other viable builds that only those who created and their fans plan, and then theres viable builds that noone plays, and viable builds that arent even discovered. And if i say build isnt viable then i gotta prove it but if someone ever tried out a build and it had some synergy in it then it is surely viable.

And if we go back to beggining of this discussion with all your claims that every crap build is viable then necro still have more viable builds than thief even tho with your standarts of what is “viable” you cant even count how many viable builds each class has.

lettucemode.3789:

I use Sirlin’s definition of viable: a strategic choice (in this case, a build) is viable if it is reasonable to pick or play at a high level, or if a player or team that makes that choice has a reasonable chance of winning high-level games.

Viable does not mean “as good as the best thing”.

Very very nice definition, so how many specs we have with this definition? Yes, 2-3

SupahSpankeh.8452:

I’ve managed some Z axis porting with it now. It’s… useful. Plus the 10% LF when you port gets to you no matter where you are at all.

Where you experienced these teleports? Theres loads of spots you can use to teleport upwards in PVP maps, you cant do it in WvW, dont know bout PVE world.

Bhawb.7408:

“Top teams”. There are so few people taking tPvP seriously right now that no one can definitely say what types of builds are viable. I’ve talked with the highest ranking tournament necros on the podcast, they all admit that while they prefer certain types of builds, they haven’t seriously experimented outside of pure glass direct damage burst, standard condi, or terror. If no one is even attempting to make other builds work, how can it be said that they don’t work?

Nemesis has WvW and sPvP builds too. He is the major reason Terror is so popular in PvP.

The people posting on forums or those who have grinded leaderboards with good teams arent only necros, theres load of hardcore PVP theorycrafters who have tried loads of builds. Necro has alot of builds but none of those builds fill role as good as any other prof would do, necro has on 2-3 builds that can compete with other classes, and even then only in certain team setups. Build cant be viable in PVP if i can make another profession in 2 min and outperform it.

Bhawb.7408:

I’m talking about PvP, WvW, and PvE. I didn’t say PvE at all in my post.

Oh, then it was not misunderstanding, your just clueless about necro in PVP or im just overhelmed by all PVP viable builds that necros use in top teams and just cant think straight.
You mentioned Nemesis, so if you suggest me to check out PVE builds i presume you talk about PVE.

Perma swiftness (which is combination of weapon, utility and traits), full deathshroud and Plague form couldnt get me ~ 1200 yrds to closest tower against 3 enemies, ele can do it every 40 secs with one press of a button… Eles are better in wvwvw roaming than any other class beside thief, so if you think your doing bad then just roll any other class.

Bhawb.7408:

There are plenty of posts with viable Necromancer builds that you can find for yourself, Nemesis alone has multiple builds that are out there. Look at his stuff first, then just browse the forums, we get a new build posted here at least a few times a week.

I define a Spec as a build that is either generic (condition/power burst), and thus has a lot of builds that follow the same basic idea, or very specific (Terror), and are uniquely different than another. So minion builds can be a very generic spec (20/0/30/20/0), or a unique minion based spec (Troll’s minionlord), which are different specs.

Viable means that it can satisfactorily fill its intended role or roles a majority of the time.

Well thats about it, our different opinions come from the fact that you talk about PVE and im talking about PVP.
For me everything is viable in PVE so i cant even compare which has more viable specs, necro or thief, have even done dungeons with axe and condi traits so for me even no spec at all is viable.

Bhawb.7408:

Thieves have more viable specs than Necros? Yeah, sure.

I have no idea what is “viable” and what is “spec” for you. I am saying that for what i do in this game, respectively PVP and WvW i have played more good specs on my lvl 40 thief than on my 8 month old necromancer.
I know only 1 viable necro spec, that i have been playing since release.
You would be more helpful by educating me on all these viable necro specs that everyone talk about instead of dropping some sarcastic bullkitten in here.

Say what you want but necro has had only 1 viable build since release of game, i have played more different builds while leveling my lvl 40 thief than on my necro in past 8 months.
If you cant win/survive/evade 1v1 your spec isnt viable.
If you cant be fully effective at least once per minute your not viable.
If your spec is based around rng, situational kills or just one trick, its not viable.
If you cant reliably gain LF your spec aint viable.

^ This is just my opinion, i have seen loads of necros who are fine that they can Lich Form kill clueless opponents with #1 spam every 3 minutes and think they are perfectly fine.
It just starts to kitten me off that everyone says how necro have loads of viable specs when im stuck in same spec since release. (Only recently switched to 2 sec terror spec for wvwvw which is actually kitten spec too and not really viable, cause of its LF generation and situational dmg.)

Thats just how necro is, if you are in very specific situation and certain time then necro is awesome. But overally any other class is more rewarding and less frustrating to play.

Ok thanks guys for input, i got all the info i wanted.

danlarusso.2790:

Let’s be realistic…

If i would want to hear my own opinion aka Thief = GW2 infantile mode, then i wouldnt even create this topic, i want to hear something new, i want thief to tell me about their problems they encounter in this game, i want to hear why they think that everyone who says thief is OP is wrong, i want to hear why they think that thiefs should be unique snowflakes on gw2 that can pull off things that no other class can.

Dasorine.1964:

WvW and balance? whut?

I’d say the fact that outside of stealing them we really don’t get many reliable defenses so we have the lowest effective health generally.

Though you really cannot expect any sort of balance in WvW, anet makes little attempt to keep that place balanced and when you have the huge variance of players it makes it hard to really tell if something is overpowered.

Sure you may have managed to take out a team of 6 as your thief, but maybe thats not down to being thief? maybe they were all PvE uplevels that only came to try jumping puzzles/see what the fuss is about? Whats to say the engineer around the corner wouldn’t have taken em as well?

You might go your entire WvW career and never meet someone who actually knows how stealth works and know how their build can counter it, which makes all the difference.

For the most part its like running a condition necro against people that aren’t just not slotting condition removers but have never heard of conditions at all.

Which actually happens more often than I like to admit when I take my necro in to WvW for stomping uplevels and such solo roaming.

Could you explain me stealth? maybe im just understanding it wrong and thats why revealed debuff seems like nothing to me. You can stealth whenever you want and you get revealed debuff if you attack some1 while in stealth, so basicly you never get revealed if you dont try to get more dmg via your stealth attacks, right?

And im pretty sure surviving/killing 1v6 is all up to beeing thief, you really wouldnt be able to survive 4+ people on necro or warr even if they would just press #1.
It would be fine that thief can survive against 5 clueless people if all classes could do that but almost no other class can do it.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Leeto.1570:

stof.9341:

It’s impossible to kill people 1v6 because they rez each other too fast.

Yet thief has the most chance of actually finishing someone cause of stealth, some other classes could do it with stability but they would be dead in seconds.

Mist Form. And why are we considering enemies that are dumb enough not to have someone auto-attacking the downed player when a thief is stealthed nearby?

Mist form got nerfed yesterday, you cant spam downed mate while trying to ress him, and cant you just use shadowstep to not get dmged when trying to stomp?

stof.9341:

It’s impossible to kill people 1v6 because they rez each other too fast.

Yet thief has the most chance of actually finishing someone cause of stealth, some other classes could do it with stability but they would be dead in seconds.

And spammable poison field, blast finisher, aoe bleed brings so much to group fight, i thought my necromancer plague form is awesome in zerg v zerg but tbh now i think i help more with thief just standing in back and applying poison/weakness everywhere + again stealth helps to ress, finish other players and we all know how powerful Rally is in zerg fights.

So i consider thief most overpowered profession in WvW, so first thing i wanted to do is level thief myself and see what are the downsides, atm im only lvl 40 and everything still feels OP, survibility, mobility, utility only thing i lack in wvwvw is damage, but im pretty sure that @ lvl 80 thief doesnt lack dmg in wvwvw.
I have seen many stating that thief is fine and even needs buff. Every other class has downsides for their powerful aspects, for example D/D eles can survive 1v6 but they will have to pop all their CDs and most likely will be unable to kill anyone. Thief can just survive same 1v6 with press of one button, and can repeat it all the time which lets him kill people 1 by 1.
So what makes thief balanced?
Oh and i want to mention that i consider thief the most easy class to play (from those ive tried) too, be it PVP/WvW or PVE leveling, so while your here you might explain me what makes thief complicated too.
Since release of game only thief excuses i have heard have been, eles can RTL 1200 away so our mobility fine, warrs can 100blade so our dmg fine, mesmers can stealth too so stealth is fine, so i would really appreciate constructive explanation why this profession that seems overpowered in every aspect is actually fine and balanced.

Leeto.1570:

Same changes we always get – bug fixes.

If anet would fix all necro bugs in one patch then there would`nt be any changes for necro at all. Stay calm and wait another patch.

Same changes we always get – bug fixes.

As i suggested before, it must be 1200 range instead of 900. I dont play dagger or axe but i imagine it would be rather easy to kite necro in 1200-900 range

“We incrased HP on few minions – Flesh Golem and Flesh Wurm” = MINION HP INCRASED!
“DS 5th slot will be filled, we think about introducing new condition that you will first see on DS #5” = DS GONNA GET UNIQUE CONDITION
Waiting for those dissapointment threads about how all minion HP wasnt incrased and how new condi isnt unique (if its gonna be introduced at all)

Is it just me or he mistook Leaderboard rank for sPVP rank, i dont think hes even in top 500.

Pick up necromancer runes, drop 10 points from Death magic, put em into spite = 2 sec fears pew pew.
atm you have 1.7 sec fears which is all cool and stuff but it is waste of traits if you dont go for full 2 sec cause your terror ticks only once per sec.
If you want to stick to this then you might aswell just change Master of Terror into soul marks for a lot better life force generation.

Opened thread cause thought you came up with new condi build that`s tPVP viable. What do i see? The build i have been running since dawn of time. Only i prefer flesh wurm instead of spectral walk.
Surprised that noone have posted description of it before, pretty sure its one of first tpvp viable necro builds.

Kyskythyn.6471:

The Soul Marks trait is a great way to gain LF reliably. One mark of blood on a fluffy bunny gives me 14% LF.
In combat, especially if you’re getting focused, a single spectral skill can rocket your LF back up. Even the 15 in Soul Reaping trait will get the job done.

Dont know why your mentioning this, if i would be fine with traiting marks, wasting utility slot or dropping to 50% for trait spectral armor just to unlock 4 important skills then i would be fine with casting necrotic grasp 4 times too. =/
Im not saying its hard to generate that 12% LF to enter shroud im talking about if there really should be such rare occasions when you get catched with 0 LF

Bhawb.7408:

You don’t need to win your first fight, just lead off with a LF generating move (or do one quickly enough).

What is this? Sarcasm, joke? Of course you gotta win your first fight. Would be pretty funny if team would send me to take close point and thief shows up and after dying i start dropping excuse that it was my first fight.

Or they could just not kitten around for once and let you enter DS at 0% for 1 sec

Bull Zooker.1672:

the only place I ever get caught without life force is in pvp with a condition build and no spectral skills. so I can kind of see your point, but outside of pvp I wouldn’t benefit from it.

Very interesting tbh, thats probobly why noone have ever mentioned it, cause noone cares.
Ofcourse i get caught without life force only like once per week but it is still imo a major flaw, why should i cast 4 Necrotic Grasps before engaging in combat just because i didnt kill 2 critters before, or even worse in tPVP when you always start with zero life force.
Its not the biggest issue but probobly one of most ridiculous, theres no reason why necro should die in combat just because he didnt kill some critters or waste some skills before it, and ye imo even 1 second of Death Shroud is life saver.

I have been thinking about this since BWE1 but as it seemed such a huge flaw in necros design i thought its gonna be changed in first months, but havent heard anything from devs and havent even seen other players talking about it.
So it`s our death shroud, it is so powerful that its much much bigger part of our class than any other class ability out there, we are balanced around it. It is our stun breaker,survibility, cc, mobility, dmg and thats just basic things it gives without traits.
The problem is that we can run out of it, or even not have it in first place. We can die in so many situations just because we have 0 life force when we could have chance in them if we would get in Death Shroud at least for second.
There are different ways to fix this, but imo most simple one would be just letting us have ~10% (or whats the minimum to enter DS) life force at all times (necros prolly must have some life force of their own while their alive). You enter death shroud, if you don`t get more life force, you are kicked out of it after 1 second and you get DS on normal cooldown. 1 second is enough to get off any DS skill.
Jon Peters suggested for us to master Death Shroud cause our class is balanced around it, shouldnt we be able to have it at all times?
So what is your thoughts on this?

hmm Could i get six-pack abs on my plague form, please?

PinCushion.7390:

Leeto.1570:

Well if your build isnt meant for 1v1 then you wont kill many people in WvW cause theres load of people that run 1v1 builds there.
But to kill DD ele you need direct damage or at least hybrid spec and then you can kill him if he wants to kill you really bad, otherwise once he feels under pressure he will just turn around and ride the lightning away from you.

I wonder if “Bait Tanking” would work in this kind of situation, where you let your health remain somewhat low so the enemy thinks he’s winning and doesn’t run away. Necro seems like the only class that could pull that off, but damage happens so fast that it’d be very difficult.

Our crap mobility, not many heals, and no immunities/blocks already work somewhat like that

Well if your build isnt meant for 1v1 then you wont kill many people in WvW cause theres load of people that run 1v1 builds there.
But to kill DD ele you need direct damage or at least hybrid spec and then you can kill him if he wants to kill you really bad, otherwise once he feels under pressure he will just turn around and ride the lightning away from you.

Strayhand.8216:

Leeto.1570:

Ah good to hear that he can beat bad thief on ranger in 1v1, thief`s must be really fine or our dev just is not completely handicapped. Good news either way.

So if a ranger beat a thief, then the thief must be bad, but if a thief beats bads in videos, he must be OP. The double standards again, welcome to MMO forums.

Ye cause ranger can totally log into wvwvw and kill group of 5 people and then escape any zerg… everybody is annoyed by thief in wvwvw not in sPVP environment. You may say wvwvw doesnt matter or whatever but theres no reason why 7 professions should play wvwvw one way and then thief just walks wherever he wants in god mode.

Ah good to hear that he can beat bad thief on ranger in 1v1, thief`s must be really fine or our dev just is not completely handicapped. Good news either way.

PinCushion.7390:

Kravick.4906:

Leeto.1570:

Thief is a bit different thing, all teleports/slows in world wouldnt help us catch thief in wvwvw that wants to get away but the fact that even low mobility professions can just walk away with swiftness from necro is really disappointing.

I get what you’re saying. I’m not upset at the fact that he got away. I’m just upset at the fact that someone mashing the 2 key on their keyboard trumps anything I have at catching him. 2222222222 is some real pro skills right there.

Now had he escaped because he popped his Signet of Shadows to blind me so Dark Path would miss, or used Shadowstep to avoid the projectile, or hell just dodged it, (it isn’t like he wouldn’t have seen it coming) I wouldn’t feel so jaded. Heartseeker spam is just stupid no matter how you look at it. It also really sucks that this method of escape physically out runs the only gap closer we have. The speed of the projectile is just pitiful. The same can be said about the staff auto attack as well.

Dark Path is not designed for chasing people. It’s designed to close range with people while they’re using channeled skills like Meteor Shower. That’s why it’s a slow projectile. They’re supposed to see it and either finish their channel and eat the chill or dodge it and lose the channel. Necro has no “chasing” skills. We’ve been griping about this since release, and the devs have responded with repeated “Necros aren’t supposed to have mobility because blahblahblah.”

If that is really intention behind Dark Path why it even has chill, but ofcourse im probobly just talking wrong here again, havent talked to any necro designers personally but Dark Path seems pretty obvious “chasing down” skill to me.

Kravick.4906:

I had the same problem with a thief today. I did everything right, dodged all his cloak and daggers, he didn’t so much as get a single stealth off, even interrupted his heal with Spectral Grasp and knocked him out of Shadow Refuge with Staff 5. Completely locked him down and controlled the entire fight. He just heartseeker spammed away from me at 5% health and there wasn’t a thing I could do to catch him. He out ran my Dark Path with his Heartseeker spam. Of course this happened in WvW so the whole, “If he ran away then you won.” argument doesn’t work. There was no objective other than killing him.

I was not happy.

Thief is a bit different thing, all teleports/slows in world wouldnt help us catch thief in wvwvw that wants to get away but the fact that even low mobility professions can just walk away with swiftness from necro is really disappointing.

So as all we know it is supposed to be hard to get away from necro and it is true cause we have nice chills and some cripple, the problem i encountered today was to chase down warrior, we have 1200 range chill but i could`nt apply it cause warrior was all the time out of range thanks to hes swiftness and ofcourse i could not get to him with my 25% signet of locust.
If im not mistaken then necromancer is only class with no gap closer at all that would help us get into 1200 range to put down Chillblains safely, without risking that hes gonna be out of range by time its done casting.
If really we are not to get more mobility then at least improve the one gap closer we have and make Dark Path 1200 range, and maybe even lower its cast time/flight time.
It would just make more sense to have our awesome gap closer work in range where its actually useful and not in 900 range where we already can drop our chill/cripple, would help dagger/axe necro against beeing kited in 1200-900 range too.
Any constructive thoughts on this?

Ah using plague to mitigate thief`s burst and then dying cause you cant teleport away with flesh wurm. Good times

Rizzy.8293:

Leeto.1570:

Rizzy.8293:

lLobo.7960:

Thief devs are always in the forum, but they abuse perma-stealth

That made me choke XD
I always wondered why we never see devs who play thieves speak their mind, but yeah perma stealth :P

hmm Rizzy from Ravencrest?

By the six no.
I dont play wow past Vanilla.

hah still funny that i meet thief with same name that rogue had on my server

Rizzy.8293:

lLobo.7960:

Thief devs are always in the forum, but they abuse perma-stealth

That made me choke XD
I always wondered why we never see devs who play thieves speak their mind, but yeah perma stealth :P

hmm Rizzy from Ravencrest?

Dredlord.8076:

Leeto.1570:

In my videos you can see some 1vX but its complete joke to what i can do on thief or elementalist.

this has been my experience too.

The single biggest thing you can do to win more 1vX is:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Transfer to a low tier server.

Or fight vs multiple necros, they dont have big burst and cant get away from you, perfect class to kill in 1vX =D

Only way to 1vX on necro is to kill one before other kills you and then kill other. In all traits/skills/weapons you have only 1 real skill to get away from enemies which is flesh wurm, in all traits/skills/weapons you have no immunities at all. 1vX works by doing damage when you can and disengaging/becoming immune when you cant, necro has none of this.
In my videos you can see some 1vX but its complete joke to what i can do on thief or elementalist.

A video i made from not so good clips that i did not wanna delete.
If you enjoy it then be sure to check my actual PVP movies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khZAwEMEzjY

By the time you get to level 80 you have learned all your stuff… so the question is, whats harder to play – a class that has tool for every situation or a class that has less tools and gotta make them work in different situations.
But in the end its just how you play your class, you can always go easy mode or the hard way.

Don`t care about the build, but i must say that is one cool looking Asura you got.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The Necro’s problem is, and always will be, a lack of active defense. No blocking skills, no evading skills, no reflecting skills, very light on hard control, mediocre on soft control, no vigor, very little stability, and bad stun breakers. Death Shroud doesn’t stop attacks insomuch as it puts those attacks into a different HP bar that starts out empty and slowly fills depending on what skills you use and how many kills you get.

Unfortunately, the devs have stated that they want it like this. So, the necromancer’s selling point will forever be “this class is meant to take 100B to the face”.

They really stated that after game release? I understand it was original style of necro but thought they might realise their mistake.
Necromancer really needs some active defense, death shroud is great protection but its not reliable survibility.