Guild Wars 2

Incurafy.6329:

You are in no position to make valid arguments against the TTK in this game, and that is my conclusion based on the posts that you have made in this thread. I really can’t explain this to you any more clearly, so I sincerely hope that your reading comprehension has improved.

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Now, all of that being said, the TTK in this game is too low in some circumstances, but in my opinion that’s an issue with passive traits and instant cast abilities, not the level of damage capable of being dealt.

Ofcourse you are in a great position to be make valid statements about the TTK in this game. You have far more proper pvp experience in this game and in other games etc. Right? Youve been pushing for top 10 spots in several games, played tournaments and lead some of the best premade pvp teams in the world right?

Tell me how to play an engineer vs a thief? And how to be situational aware like you ofc? Maybe you can stream some footage of the master of awareness. doing his thing.

It would be really cool

Btw is this you on thief? http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/c/1935123

That nub helseth lulz if only he was as aware as Incurafy. If he was he probably wouldve been an MLG tournament winner by now. Oo

Its a common issue that people who are relatively new to pvp have issues with their understanding positioning and when to and when not engage in fight. Having bigger teamfights obviously makes it really hard for people like the OP who are new to pvp.

Incurafy.6329:

PvP that I don’t really understand

I suggest you either ask for tips how to improve as a player (awareness poisitioning etc) on these forums. Or you can always whisper me in game incurafy if you want some tips from a real pvp veteran (multigame tournament level pvpplayer here)

You seem to have issues with your build aswell which is quite common for new players. If you want i can ask some high rated thief friends of mine to help you out on that one.

Incurafy.6329:

This is where I take issue with you and your obvious lack of experience. There is no such thing as a Thief that you don’t see coming if you’re actually paying attention to your surroundings. There is plenty of counter-play, the only time that a Thief will be able to burst you unexpectedly will be during a fight with another player where you’re focussed on the fight, and that’s when the Thief who bursts you is doing exactly what they’re supposed to do.

If you’re actually having trouble with Backstab Thieves then you have a lot of learning to do. I would seriously suggest politely posting in the Thief forum with context and details and we’ll be more than happy to help you learn how to counter us.

I’m sorry if you think that I’m getting off topic, but you asked me to explain how I think you’ve invalidated your own thread, and that was my answer.

This isnt a thread about thieves. Youre literally picking a random example and treat it as if its the thing i complain about.

So youre either attempting to troll or unable to read simple posts. Im assuming the first, but ill bite:

I DONT have issues with backstab thieves at all. I win pretty much all my 1v1s vs thieves (and quite a few 1vs2) with little to no issues.

This thread isnt about that though….it is about the way dmg is applied and how bigger damage quite often is applied instantly with relatively little counterplay. This is a cross profession issue and not only related to thieves or warriors or….

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

you obviously never played a half good engineer. Run in circles spamming the ground, swap to pistol if they get too far, spam every condition there is, drop bombs for AoE knockback and have a 50% up time swiftness and and massive regen with reflect and block and more skills than any other player…yet some how you think warrior is O.P.

You mean a tournament level engineer like Ostrich Eggs?

http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/3063182

Chrissle.8690:

I dont know if it´s the case but it feels like Gandara and AG leave eachother alone, except for the occasional SM takeover, and just go for the few things that FSP has. =P

Its quite normal to feel like that. since its a lot harder for you to notice fights you and your server arent a part off.

I personally remember more fights vs Gandara than vs you guys tbh. But that could be due to the fact i was on Gandaras BL mostly.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Well there are many things in this game that are not well telegraphed, .

Agreed. If a high impact/damage abbilitie hits as fast and is as hard to counter as a jab you have a problem. Damage across the board is to high, that includes damage i can do on my own classes. But if all of those high impact/damage abbilities needed proper buildup or setup, the game wouldve been a lot better.

Who is many?….there is barely anyone left playing spvp. One of the main reasons is the one this thread is about.

Edit; at least Knote gets what im trying to say -_-

Chicago Jack.5647:

Locuz, your lack of any valuable information at all makes many people on here get turned off to your post. Instead of insulting others, perhaps provide some information about your problem and we might be able to help you. Otherwise, why are you posting here? Just to vent? If that is the case, then do what you have to do and move on.

What thief build are you having trouble dealing with? Did they have might involved with their spike? Any signets? What is the build you typically run? Is it spvp we are talking here (we all assume so, since this is the spvp forum) or is it wvw?

If you don’t want to provide this type of information, then I can only assume you’re just venting.

My problem atm is that you didnt read my post. Please do that before you reply. It would help me a lot.

Hint: its not a post about thieves or even a specific pvp mode. Its about dmg being over the top.

Its not my problem either. Its the games problem. Its one of the main reasons why so many of the top players are quitting atm.

Incurafy.6329:

So if I say something that you don’t agree with, I play WoW and usually troll on the WoW forums?

/logic

You invalidated your entire thread because you went from making reasonable arguments (with the exception of backstab, and you are still yet to prove that that is possible in PvP without a gimmick build or a set up) to claiming that Thieves backstabbing from stealth is a serious problem, then claiming that you need psychic powers (which don’t exist, btw) to counter it.

In other words, you admitted to knowing too little about PvP to even begin making a solid argument about the TTK being too low.

This thread is about damage being over the top, especially damage with little to no buildup. I get it that you start crying since the random example i used is a backstab from a thief. But same applies to quite a few other high impact abbilities like signet of spite for example, or the dmg a necro does in shroud.

If a thief backstabs me from stealth …. he basicly lands an attack that removes half of my HP before I can react. There is no counterplay to that…..unless youre a psychic or took a lucky guess and dodged/turned at the right time.

If people come with posts stating “well youll get used to the speed of combat one day” or something like that….ill come with a solution even if its as absurd as being a psychic.

Tell me…how would you avoid the first attack from a thief if you didnt see him coming? Are you like randomly dodging and jump turning for no reason constantly? Just in a case a thief pops up?

Incurafy.6329:

LOL @ you complaining about Thieves backstabbing you out of stealth. You just completely invalidated your entire thread, good job.

So if a thief uses backstab as first attack out of stealth. My thread about damage overall being over the top is invalid?

With that post you made all of your posts useless. Please go back to the wow forums with your trolling.

NevirSayDie.6235:

But a single stunbreak negates most of your fear damage if used quickly. A single dodge negates a heartseeker. Turning around quickly halves the damage of a backstab.

Trust me, it seems very fast at first but once you get the hang of it fights last a long time (except in hotjoin, as I’ve already mentioned). .

Wow thanks for the tips. Once i get the hang of it right? Once i get the hang of it ill use my psychic powers to predict backstabs coming from stealth. So ill follow these steps:

http://www.wikihow.com/Develop-Psychic-Abilities

And then ill learn to be as aware as you. The one who knows before seeing the thief to turn around.

You sound like that 1200 rated hunter in wow that tried to give my 2600 rated mage tips on how to fight vs hunters.

NevirSayDie.6235:

But the time to kill is not low. It’s quite high in GW2.

Ive seen multiple “top” players drop from 80% HP to 0 in a single stunn or fear. While being dmged by 1 guy ofc.

While this sounds amazing. And you probably shout really hard “pwned” when it happens….it is bad for the game.

Im talking about dmg in general. Seeing people melt during one fear on my necro for example. Or warriors getting one hit in with their hammer and ppl being at 50% allready.

For bad players sure…ill be able to kite 2-3 of them nps. If ppl know how to burst etc. It literally takes 2-3 secs if they are lucky…even with 2840 toughness (not 2480).

Let me say something before i start moaning. I am a really big fan of the way how combat works in GW2. I think it is the MMO with the highest potential combat wis.e.

Before i started playing this game i always saw GW2s idea of combat as a form of boxing. Where you attack, defend and counter. Where big attacks mean either a buildup or leaving yourself open for hard hitting counters.

However when you balance damage in a way where even a regular straight punch will instantly knock out anyone it hits, you will make the sport kind of a joke.

I think that is the biggest issue with pvp atm. A lot of the complaints come from getting bursted with minimal effort and without being able to fight back.

For example: Getting hit by thieves from stealth for 12 k (backstab), while being in full “defensive gear” (2840 armor) as engi is imo absurd. I cant imagine what he would hit me for if i was in zerker gear. 1 shot maybe?

The same applies for when im playing on my necro. Most people melt within the first fear if i have proper condis up on him. It doesnt even feel skillbased.

Once damage gets balanced in a way that people can actually react instead of being at 20% instantly….the game will improve big time.

Minfast.5489:

I see roaming for AG means 5v1 :/

Same can be said about FSP. Havent met a single solo roamer besides one necro at the start of the evening (not that enjoyable for me as engineer :x) . Ended up teaming up with a thief…got really tired of trying to 1v3. or run vs 5+.

I must say FSP roamers never give up though. Chasing me for minutes with 5 from far north till halfway across the map. Persistant bunch.

Silent Shino.7239:

just to set things straight, AG has been blobbing this matchup; blobbing a lot, we don’t usually blob this much, it’s only because we have so many PVE achievement hunters on 24/7. If it wasn’t for all of the PVE people, Millers probably would have won this matchup due to their (normally) superior night squads. So don’t use this week as your image of AG, use weeks where we don’t have an insane amount og people.

You might actually have some new pvp/wvw only people that took care off the “night-shifts” for you. That kept roaming and capping camps with some random tower here and there till the early hours.

Feels kind of disrespectfull to dismiss everyone youre not used to seeing late at night as “those pve ach hunters”.

Busko.7408:

Very good point so almost every day at the morning hours we been ahead of Millers in score and at prime time we been avg ticking for more then millers so that means you should have focused on MS as you just said right. But reality was not really the same as your nice words.

There is one important reason why you get focussed more than the Millers:

Jayne.9251:

Click the enemy, type /invite. If they’re in a group, type /join.

People do this a lot when i kill them. Only a few actually talk tho. What could be the reason for inviting and then saying nothing? Do they want to know my name or something?

AkiraZero.8514:

MS and GH have both managed to match our blob numbers with equal numbers every time I’ve been on EB this week and have often driven us back as we’ve tried to cap a tower etc. Its been a really close match up in terms of players and skill and style of play, we’ve probably just got a better overall coverage this match up which is something I have not seen on AG since The first few months of launch.

It is in fact the coverage. When we build our lead it was typically due to a huge difference in supply camps + ruins held (combined with commanders paying attention or pushing for SM fast enough).

1 or 2 decent roamers solocapping camps at night makes a huge difference allready aswell. If you dont have guys like that or roamers that will leave wvw after dieing once or twice vs even numbers, the opposing server will build a big lead.

Noerknhar.3826:

You mean we got outmanned by your both superior day and night shift? Yeah, that’s true. Saying that’s having anything to do with strategy or whatever is just wrong.

I’m pretty happy that we’ll do the second place in this matchup.

Im not sure how the blobs are doing. But apart from at the end of last night i felt outnumbered while roaming. Both GH and Millers seem to either zerg camps or have at least 5-7 people when taking camps. Which isnt a bad thing perse tactics wise, but its far from the outmanned statement you made.

And 99% of the millers will always run when they face equal numbers. Its a pvp mode…. not a running contest.

And yes coverage at night seems good when we have 2 roamers taking out your roamers multiple times, followed by pretty much all camps on 2 borderslands.

The people who say that GW2 has “fewer” skills typically play something like guardian, warrior or spriritranger.

This lack of depth doesnt apply to all classes (professions).

Ele and engineer are probs some of the hardest classes (to play well) ive ever played in any MMO.

It totally depends what class (profession) you play.

This game has some of the easiest and some of the hardest/most complex classes of any MMO. On my engineer i have 29 abbilities/swaps. And its quite common that i rotate through all of them in a single fight. And on top of that you have abbilities that do multiple things, like comboing. You have nothing in wow that is as complex/hard to play well as engineer or elementalist.

And thats coming from a guy (me) who played 7 classes up to 2200-2600 in the arena in wow.

Whenever we look at traditional MMOs its easy to start staring at the number of hotkeys. But people need to realize that most of them are fillers…stuff that isnt used in combat.

Here is a standard PvE rotation and its cooldowns for my old main class in wow:

http://www.noxxic.com/wow/pve/mage/frost/dps-rotation-and-cooldowns

17 keys including all CDs. All of them are one dimensional aswell. And mage isnt even the easiest. There are specs that have 4 abbilitie rotations like moonkin (outside of CDs).

Zen.4678:

Same with AG. I can’t ever get in a 1v1 without 1-4 others jumping in.

Just had a 1v1 going with a mesmer, when it got bad for him 4 of his guildies jumped in with one other non guildie.

Are you that hooded “permastealth” thief that got zerged 4-5 near the south ruins a while ago?

If you are that guy you know that not all of us are like that. Im that engi with the mohawk :P I left you alone when you got zerged and even let you res after killing you 1v1!

If the guy isnt a scumbag thats what i typically do (as if its a duel). Good fights anyway.

DocHolliday.5921:

. I played my ranger for an hour or two…

I started off as ranger aswell, And the “combat flow” of that profession bored me so much that i stopped playing for a few months.

After some research i found i wasnt the only one who thought that way. So i started playing engineer after picking up the game again and i am enjoying the hell out of it.

It starts of slow quite like the ranger. But once you have full control over your spec and uttilities it is probably one of the most dynamic and diverse classes i played during my long MMO “career”.

scootshoot.6583:

OP, Computer specs please starting with your cpu.

- Intel Core i5 4670K
- GTX 760 VGA
- 500 MB vibre net

Guess its not good enough, since im getting skill lagg. What do i need to upgrade to fix this issue? I dont think the net can be upgraded any further though. Unless i migrate or start my own business. Maybe i should do that?

Nymphetamine.2103:

Even games like Tera roflstomps GW2 with regards to viewers.

Tera is typically hovering between 50 and 150 viewers, while GW2 has around 300-500 viewers. Ive actually never seen Tera with more viewers than GW2 at a given moment….and i have twitch open 24/7 pretty much (on my 3rd screen).

So no….this isnt true.

Maybe you looked at it when some super popular multi game streamer took a peak at it for an hour or two. Or a day after the release of their latest dungeon patch?

And besides that. I wouldnt link twitch viewers to the popularity of a game. Some games or animation styles just arent that suitable for streams. GW2 is a lot more demanding on your system aswell So less people will be able to stream and play GW2 at the same time with decent FPS. And GW2 looks really crappy on low graphic settings due to its animation style.

A lot of people play MMOs to blow off some steam. Just smashing random buttons, making random noises etc is a part of that :P

Like this dude for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISlKnmni_xw

There are some relatively quiet spots, while still being in LA though:

- You can sit on the beach
- Be all zen under a waterfall
- Take a swim for a bit.

1. Hardcore “progression” content, that only the most dedicated/tuned groups can do.
2. Thought and oppinion provoking storytelling that is a bit more adult oriented.
3. Recruitment within the community of a specialized pvp/pve balance team. A group of smart multiclassers that know how to look at balance from a helicopter view.
4. More community based projects and contests (like the i love my X class in Allods).
5. Some creature or location specific loot. Like finding a BiS weapon (for that level) after doing a minidungeon in a certain zone.
6. New PvP modes (tied to a contest perhaps?)
7. Gear and buildtemplates.
8. Pvp servers (they actually talked about this pre release).
9. Duelling whereever you want.

xephire.8324:

Why not ranger?Why no love or other classes besides the holy trinity.

Since ranger lacks depth. I stopped playing GW2 and whent back to wow since i made ranger my first main. I thought this game and its playstyle lacked the depth that i was used to in wow.

Now i play an engineer and have the direct opposite opinion.

xephire.8324:

Seriously why not ranger?They are one of the best class.Why no love?

I have 5 profs at 80 atm including ranger. And i dare to say ranger is by far my least favourite. It was my first main and it was imo so boring that i stopped playing and whent back to wow due to it. Especially the long and shortbow playstyle is so zzzzz.

Once i came back and tried some other profs including my current main; engineer, i found out there are some classes in this game with a lot of depth and an interesting playstyle.

And thats my advice aswell. Play an engineer and never look back. It starts off quite simple but once you get full acces to all kits and get full control over your build its amazing.

Henri Blanche.8276:

I would pay real money to play the game shown in these videos. Is there any chance that it will happen? Perhaps a crowdfunding effort via Kickstarter?

You can … its called GW2. What is the difference between what is shown in the videos and what you see in game?

- My graphics seem to be better than what is shown in the video (esp with sweetfx).
- The skills are all reckognizable and usable skills you can find in game.
- The mobs are all common mobs we can find in game.
- The areas seem to be random areas in game aswell.
- The camera is zoomed in o rout and shown at a certain angle to show the animations. But everything the character does can be done in game.

Guys lets stick to the topic. Every (MMO) game has its flaws and its unique features that make it so amazing.

The nice thing is that GW2 has in my eyes a lot of these amazing features.

chemiclord.3978:

But now the next question is; which one should Arena.net listen to? It’s easy to accept any and all criticism. It’s not quite so easy to decide whether or not to act on it.

Exactly.

At times something that seems bad at a first glance is good for the game in a long run. And vice versa.

Blizzard developped a few prime examples of that in wow. Examples like LFR that make the content far more accesable for a bigger percentage of the community. So at a first glance its a good thing.

However … if you look at the negative effects it had; A] a detached community B] A shorter “journey” for the average MMO player. youll notice that these outweigh the possitive effects. In fact i even dare to say that these are the two things that caused the decline in subs.

This was all due criticism from their player base. Players that kept nagging about how they paid for the game so they wanted to see everything…..even if they only played for 1 hour a month.

My point is that shaping your game based on criticism can be extremly bad for your game in the long run.

xephire.8324:

wait till you reach lvl 80

I actually prefer the gameplay at level 80 over leveling. If youre 80 you can do everything you want, including almost everything youre doing while leveling. I played since open beta and ive never had a moment where i felt i had nothing to do.

You know why?

Since i dont tunnelvision specific content. I play a bit of everything which makes it a really enjoyable experience. Even after 2000+hours played.

Khal Drogo.9631:

If you missed some of the dungeons like Aetherblades and Molten Alliance, sorry you are NEVER going to play it again.

If I am not mistaken SAB will make its return soon for people Hoping for it.

So far since ascended weapon rollout I dont think I have missed anything fun, feel free to correct me.

Says who? Its very likely that those dungeons will make a return, in any way shape or form (fractals maybe).

I think SAB (super adventure box) will come back periodically, almost like a seasonal think. Every year a full month of SAB fun.

You missed the new TA, probs the best 5 man dungeon i ever played due to its nice mix of challenge, teamwork and mechanics. And yes i am an MMO veteran (30+ MMOs played) so i played a lot of 5 mans.

You missed Tequatl. The initial struggles due to the ramped up difficulty, the collective theorycrafting and most importantly that it functions as a nice community builder. It resulted in a lot of people on voice chat and even a mumble server that is permamently populated these days on my server.

Compare that to wow for example where they create features that work directly against server communities (like cross server fully automated LFG, LFR, crossserver arenas etc), and you know why i think this is a good thing.

Hmm i agree with the OP in a way. At this moment it doesnt matter that much since the pvp community is relatively small so teams tend to be all over the place in skilllevel.

But if there was proper differentiation between MMR, it would be kinda silly to play vs the same players on my main as i play on a class that i never played before.

AtoBoss.2906:

lel, is this guy for real… If you dont bring a stun-breaker, be prepared to get stunned no matter how ‘good’ you are (spamming aoe around you doesnt take much skill btw). I too would like to run triple arcane utils s/d on my ele, but considering the current stun meta, i’ll be a complete idiot to rely purely on my overconfidence to dodge right?

The stunnbreaker engineers have right now has a 40 sec CD (vs the warrior hammer stunn on a 7 sec CD). On top of that they dont have stability as far as i know (will be added next week).

Whatever you might think of a certain player or his build. Seeing any player going from 80% to 0 during one stunn sequence is kittened. Just like its kittened how i can kill people from 80% to 0 during a single fear on my necro or …

Asche.5362:

Thoughts?

I dont think this game is suited for 8v8 in “small scale pvp”. I think 5v5 is even pushing it on certain maps.

The game would become too zergy with little to no room for individual clutch plays and it would be even harder to watch than it is now.

Look at how fast a single warrior, mesmer or thief can blow people up single handedly. The bigger the group, the more moments people will have where they get blown up before they are able to react. Before they can counter or use defensives.

Keep the zerg in wvw, or create a seperate GvG mode.

hooma.9642:

2) We’re trying mechanics that focus on high risk/reward mechanics that can win to sudden wins/sudden losses.
3) We’re trying maps that focus on “big play” moments that permanently impact the map flow/map status.

You mean big plays like pulling or launching people off the platform on skyhammer? Or gaining control over the skyhammer canon and killing three people with one canon blast? Plays like that?

Do we want that?

NevirSayDie.6235:

Sounds like you want conquest! Control of the map is gained by defeating enemy players, splits are encouraged, secondary objectives stay in the background (on most maps), balanced comps are encouraged (1 support/tank + varying types of dps/burst/mobility/utility builds), kiting is easy but doesn’t contribute to map control.

I’m being completely serious. People don’t realize how much conquest pushes the opposing teams at each other and forces combat, while still allowing team splits and role variety. I’m glad that the devs are working on new game modes, but it is not so easy to come up with something better as we seem to think.

A] It doesnt sound like conquest at all. Conquest is about controlling certain areas while a deathmatch type of gamemode would be about protecting your team and pushing for the opposing team (or specfic members) when its vulnerable.

It requires a totally different state of mind.

B] While “splits are encouraged” the intial skirmish usually ends up being a 4v4 or even 5v5 in some cases. In bigger fights like that, there is less room for clutch plays of your own….and its a lot harder to follow as a viewer. My advice is to create mechanics or a layout where youll see a lot of smaller scale skirmishes like 2v2 or 3v3 max.

C] The secondary objectives on the current maps are far too important for the outcome of the game. Look at the impact of the canon on the skyhammer map for example or the boss on foefire.

D] The current layouts have too many chokepoints. Its to easy to throw down a necro mark or two across a certain chokepoint and prefent a group of people to acces an area for a set period of time.

Compare that to other MMOs mobas or FPS games and youll see that most enjoyable and succesful layouts arent filled with chokepoints like that. We need some room to let our core gameplay do the work instead of letting the environment (or gimicky secondary objectives!) do the work for us. That doesnt mean we dont need chokepoints at all….just not as many as in spiritwatch for example.

E] Thats why i brought up the idea to organize a competition. Im quite certain it isnt that hard to create a new gamemode. And with some incentive we could see some great and most of all implementable ideas coming from the community.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just to confirm, we are working on new maps. I can’t give too many details.

Please analyze pvp games and modes that where succesfull in the esportscene. Correct me if i am wrong but literally every single one that i can think off is about killing the opposing player (s). There are differences in mechanics but it always evolves around creating pvp skirmishes.

If i had to design a pvp mode i would try to follow a few set rules:

- The main goal needs to be to kill the opposing player (s).
- You need mechanics or a layout that splits people up to avoid a zergfest.
- Dont let secondary objectives / ingredients impact the game too much.
- Create a layout that doesnt doesnt benefit a certain type of playstyle/team to much. Chokepoints are fine but dont make it too easy to shut people out. Make it open enough for people who want to kite but with enough areas to LoS when needed.

I would organize a community contest titled: “the community knows best”. In this contest i would let the community come up with ideas for pvp modes with a nice set of prices for the guys who come up with the best ideas.

They would need to follow a certain standard format including a nice moodboard etc etc etc.

Indeed. Its weird how we started to judge content based on efficiency instead of fun.

Exactly what Diogosilva stated. This is probably one of the best posts ive read on this forum. It should be wrapped in an enveloppe and delivered to the guys who are the deicisionmakers in GW2s “pvp team”.

Getting this fixed should be the top priority. Above anything else.

There are a lot of good games that dont attract a lot of viewers due to a wide variety of reasons.

GW2s reasons imo.

- Harder to follow due to its animationstyle. Cartoony graphics are a lot easier to follow.
- One of its key features “read the game and not the UI” makes it really hard for viewers to know whats going on at any given moment.
- Too much AI and spellclutter.
- Lacking gamemode in Tpvp. Where other gamemodes in high viewercount games evolve around “the fights” GW2s gamemode is about areacontrol and NPC kills with the fights being a means to an end.
- Very demanding on your system if compared to wow for example. So less people will have a system that is capable to pull it off. This game looks really bad at low settings (even worse than wow does at low imo) so most people who have a mid tier PC dont bother.
- Balance issues / huge gap between risk and reward when looking at classes. 1 button spamfest vs some of the hardest classes to play really well (out of any MMO class).
- And last but not least, the pvp community is just really small atm. Im surprised we pull 200-500 viewers.

gotem.5284:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZBX-kckJA

My guildmates WoW classic video. One of the most viewed of all time for classic PvP… this one only has 100k+ but the original had a ton more this is like a 5th copy of it.

Ofc it was. And even if it was…..you dont seem to see that all of his normal crits where 1000ish. Whatever came above it was due to berzerker or executes (executes crits dont matter since youre at 20% hp anyway).

Xsorus.2507:

You’re joking right? I was hitting Rogues for 2k+ with Arcanite Reaper at the start of the game with Auto Attack on Crit, That’s not Mortal Strike or Overpower, That’s auto Attack

You clearly did not play WoW at the start, otherwise you’d know this. I was the first Warrior on the server I was on to get Arcanite Reaper, and I was two shotting Rogues left and right because of it. They ended up nerfing Warriors soon afterward because of that. Well before anyone got Ragnaros

This is one of our core group members in vanilla. Ive raided naxx 60 and ranked up till rank 13 with him. In this video he uses a both a fury 2 × 1 hander spec and a 2 handed spec with rags hammer. Skip to the parts with the 2 hander and check what the real numbers of a warrior who has BiS gear where.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightbringer/Ar%C3%A8thusa/

My old locks armoury. I will activate it with the 7 days free time for you to see it really is my character.

Awe.1096:

So again. Are you really that confident that WoW is loosing subs becouse they do more faceroll content?

Yes there is no doubt in my mind and it has absolutely nothing to do with being outdated. There are a few very obvious reasons:

- I have build up a huge network in wow. People discuss these kind of things non stop and ive witnessed entire guilds stopping due to this.
- I witnessed the entire downfall of wow step by step and predicted how nerfing content would cost them. And it did.
- There are multiple interviews with former wow devs who stated this (Mark Kern being one).
- The most important reason…..it makes sense. If you make something to easy it becomes unmemorable and less “epic” when you finish it. Its pretty much farm content from the very first moment you enter the instance. Look at the link i posted below for an example.

If your game gained its popularity during a period where they released challenging memorable content and started losing ground when they started steering away from it, its quite obvious …

So why did they try to casualize you ask? Well they saw they lost a lot of casual players on their journey to “endgame”. Rsearch show how only 30% of all players who start wow make it past level 10 for example. So they kept smoothing out the entire game and making it easier and easier to reduce those percentages. There are a lot of things they didnt overthink before doing that:

- A lot of the guys who wouldve quit early, whont last that much longer if you make things easier.
- By making things easier you lose people at the top who will find the game to shallow. This is normally the loyal crowd that will stick to a game, (if it stays true to its roots).
- You basicly rush people to the finishline. So people experience everything the game has to offer within a week. And then what?
- By making content too easy and too accesable you remove the need to be nice and socialize.

Think about it like this. Why would you logg in to an MMO? In most cases for two reasons. To socialize or to build up your character(s). If you remove the need for server communities and shorten the time it takes for you to be “done” with your character youre killing your own game pretty much.

And its not like in GW2 where you can jump in to lower level zones to complete them or do jumping puzzles or wvw or zoneevents or minigames or whatever. There are no 2 weekly updates….if youre done, youre done for the next 4-5 months.

http://manaflask.com/en/articles/from-fresh-90-to-downing-lei-shen-while-basically-doing-nothing

Xsorus.2507:

Clearly he didn’t play at the beginning of WoW, when i could take my Warrior with Arcanite Reaper and two shot a Rogue.

I played since day 1….and no you didnt two shot a rogue unless he had no gear. In fact there is a clip with my rogue in it from vanilla facing my old friend who played a warrior with ragnaros hammer. Regular crits where around a 1000, full geared rogues had 4500ish hp in full warlord gear.

So what youre saying is that you critted higher with your craftable weapon than a legendary wielding warrior warrior who used a mix of the warlord set + naxx 60 offpieces?

And that was vanilla, when there was no rated pvp. Nothing like GW2 with its rated pvp and esports aspirations.

gotem.5284:

Welcome to life. You think everything is going to be fair?

I played a hunter in WoW with over 70 keybindings to get gladiator.

My friend played an ele shaman and got gladiator by hitting 3-5 keys.

Deal with it. There will —-> NEVER <—- be balance in ANY game.

If you can’t handle this concept I suggest you quit MMO type games. Go play an FPS game.

To be honest i dont a mind a difference. What i do mind is the absurd gap like we have in GW2 now.

And no the difference isnt as big in WOW. I played wow since beta, been gladiator and whent 2200-2600 with the majority of classes. I know how that game works and what it takes to be succesfull.

Standard dps and burst rotations in wow have a similar a number of abbilities for pretty much all classes in that game. There is a difference between how classes land their burst, CC, ettc which makes a class easy or hard. But even the easiest class (like ele shaman) has a 6 abbilitie rotation it has to go through to do his normal dmg (outside of his CDs).

And there certainly is no class that can spam his autoattack and win that way, like we have in this game. Or are you telling me an ele shaman can spam just his lightening bolt and win?

Well….we had icey touch DKs in S5 (2008) i guess. The sad part is, that this game has multiple classes/specs like that.

Oidmetala.8426:

well, keep whining against ranger.

i just wonder how u bobs handle warrior, thief, necro and mesmers when you cry about ranger.

warrior is brain off just spam cc
necro is brain off just spam condis
thief is brain off just spam ~2-3 attacks all time

you full kittens whant a ranger nerf for balance the hole game.
well then whats the space of ranger after nerf him into ground.
atm warrior, necro, thief and mes can beat spirit rangers without much problems

I dont think you understand the idea behind this thread. Its NOT about classes being OP or not. Its about proper risk and reward. About how some classes can manage to be effective (or even top of the food chain) with very little effort involved. While other classes need to work their kitten off to get the same results.

Its about adjusting classes so every single one requires about as much effort as the other to play well. Not about making them weaker or stronger.

And yes the same applies to warriors (esp healing signet) necros and to some extend thieves. But thieves are a different story since its only a minor part of their design that needs to be adjusted (spam stealth in one spec and spam evades in another).

gotem.5284:

You should see the OP’s reaction on twitch when he lost to a guardian over and over.

Epic nerd rage.

Shows how bad the balance in this game is atm. Especially the balance between risk and reward. The enormous difference in difficulty between the professions. We basicly have some of the hardest and easiest classes in the history of MMOs in the same game.

How spamming your autoattack can destroy someone who has to rotate through and combine a whole series of skillshots. How a properly specced class can be tanky and nulify most of the opposing players dmg…..and still do just as much sustained as most random dps build players in the game.

An ele or engineer vs something as mind-numbingly simple as a guardian spiritranger or necro is not even a comparison. The first two take months to learn to play properly, while the later three take about 10 minutes.

Everything that will wipe you more than once or twice is too hard according to some. These are the guys who come to this forum and complain. Since its a lot easier to complain than it is to overcome the challenge that lies ahead.

Lets look at the most important subject first; “what makes a good/memorable instance” In my opinion its about 3 key ingredients.

- It needs to be challenging enough
- It needs to evolve around a combination of interesting mechanics.
- Due to the lack of a holy trinity you need some kind of teamplay

So what these 3 things in mind. What is the ideal difficulty for a normal (not hardcore) instance?

An instance that is hard enough to be challenging, where you are “forced” to use the mechanics (or fail) and where teamplay plays a big role in its completion. And since its not hardcore content, an instance that can be done by any random not super optimized group of ok geared people.

Everything i said applies to TA. And its one of the first 5 man dungeons that i played that has a nice combination of these 3.