Guild Wars 2

Absurdly bad video telling ppl to fight and even die on point. While thats one of the main things that beginners do wrong: sit on point an die there instead of surviving and kiting when needed.

Shaogin.2679:

Queueing at a time when population is low will do it.

Thats the case 24 hours a day

The games state is kittening horrible right now.

I dont see how ppl can get excited about one of the most shallow pvp experiences on the market.

There are like 2 dozen people watching GW2 pvp on twitch at any given time. A poo slinging contest would get more hype than pvp in this game lol.

AliamRationem.5172:

Don’t quote me on this as I’m not a PvP expert, but I think thief works best when they do their own thing (i.e. decap and +1). So trying to pair up with them and provide support directly to them during a match isn’t usually productive.

Given that, your best bet might be to go with some sort of bunker or team support so that you can help win team fights and hold mid while your thief does what thief does best to keep the game in your control.

Maybe ele? A good ele support healer makes a world of difference in team fights.

One of the biggest advantages you have while duo qing as thief is coordinating burst. Id go with something with that is able to burst, is mobile and is able to survive for a bit so it isnt as much of a liability.

Id say mesmer or LB dps druid.

suffish.4150:

And THE WORST one of all…
People who are actually useless acting like it was my/my duo’s fault that we lost the game, even though we are the ones carrying almost all the time.

Agreed, this is the worst. ^

When youre doing well, winning your fights ….having that random person on the team die and shout “this thief is useless”. Eventho youre steamrolling ppl and decapping every occasion.

Would make too much sense → would never happen.

Youd have to wait untill anet reinviented the wheel and comes with the very good idea to “seperate solo and duoq MMR” ….somewhere in 2019.

zalt.8937:

I think most people enjoyed gw2 more pre HoT. I know I did.

Ramoth.9064:

Why can a game like Dota 2 offer no guaranteed rewards for winning matches, still retain a higher playerbase than GW2’s pvp mode?

That’s right, you can easily play 10 games, taking 6-10 hours, and receive no material rewards for your game account.

Are rewards really the problem for GW2’s pvp? Food for thought.

GW2 suffers from a wide range of problems; rewards is a small part of it.

If we purely look at rewards:

If we play a lot of pvp you get 100s of boxes filled with “crap”, stuff you whont need as a pvper. The pvp specific items you can aim/grind for are basicly reskins of stuff every can get.

If i play arenagames in wow for example i play to get gladiator and receive a gladiator mount. A cool unique pvp specific reward.

why are u even bothering?

Its like complaiining about the quality of a mcdonalds restaurant…

Its a cheap fast food restaurant.

Same applies to GW2…its a cheap easy acces super casual game. U ccant expect anything from it.

Most players up till gold arent a lot better or worse than bots

Bots are quite common in other MMOs. The movement patterns sound familiar:

Luci.7018:

The old ones had earning per game .
It gave some buzz to the hate-based sites that wow is dying etc

Any news about the yearly x-packs?

I personally really dislike anual xpacs in any MMO games. + i think its bad for the game overall since it makes content absolete too fast.

Luci.7018:

Any idea what happened to the yearly x-packs that they evisioned ?
Or why they remove them quartely Income reports (how much money they make) ?

I was kinda curious about those 2 , but i am happy to w8 for 1,5 years about what new technology their Devs will create

http://investor.activision.com/results.cfm

You mean these quarterly results? Results for the 2nd quuarter are incoming at the 3rd of august.

zealex.9410:

Locuz.2651:

Blizzard is a triple A company with top of the line devs tho…..anet isnt. Youre expecting too much.

Not all the top of the line devs are in blizzard… Anet has perfectly capable devs for the job.

Comparing blizzard devs with anet devs is like comparing champions league.
with sunday amateurs.

There is 0 competetion. Most anet devs wouldnt even get an intern job at anet after coming from this disaster.

Failed blizzard devs however come to anet.

Ever heard of an anet dev that whent to blizzard? Neither did i.

Blizzard is a triple A company with top of the line devs tho…..anet isnt. Youre expecting too much.

Rukia.9860:

you know your game is going downhill when the biggest failure in gaming history has something you don’t xD

Guild wars 2 and diablo 3 both got released in 2012. By 2015:

GW2: 4.6 million copies sold
Diablo 3: 30 million copies sold

Diablo 3 PC version copies sold in 2017 only: 5.21 million. <- thats more than GW2 during its first 3 years post release.

Its in the top 10 of best selling games of all time lol.

Its a bit of a trend to flame if you lose…..good players who carry every game do it but bad players who get farmed all game do it aswell.

^ Once you realize this you realize there is no point to react to it.

The “feedback” you get is most often so far from what actually happened that its totally irrelevant and is best to be ignored.

Bunker meta would be boring…if there was a bunker meta.

Are we still in beta? lol

Thief stacking isnt that bad due to the relatively strength of thieves atm.

Sp no idea what youre complaining about OP.

So you want only ppl who know what they are doing in pvp?

That leaves about 10ish players in total

ive played doubloe thief vs top tier competition and did well. Dont see the problem

steelheart.7386:

When I look at the top stats at end of the game the vast majortiy of the time the people awarded them are also the people I felt played best in the game. Also, if you play a lot and have a good memory of who the better players are again they are the ones getting the top stats usually. Most people build there classes to fill a specific role. For example if you are a dps you should be getting top damage and/or kills often. So long story short I feel like extra pips for top stats are totally appropriate.

Earlier i played game where i was forced to hold mid multiple times vs 3 as thief.

My team was zerging like mad….4v2ing vs an ele + druid at home for minutes. and defending our boss with 3 vs just 1 guy. Not once but 3 times.

At the end the warrior who was part of that zergfest stated he carried since he had 3 tops.

Is that u?

The rewards are so bad…almost as if they are trolling us.

choovanski.5462:

once upon a time there were bots who just cut trees

anet cared about these bots a great deal, and we would use the report function to have these ‘cyber lumberjacks’ banished. now with most of the bionic tree destroyers gone, the report button is just a relic of lost times.

In games that arent low budget and arent struggling to break 200 viewers on twitch there is actual support.

Ppl cant cheat there or flame hardcore in chat without getting suspended.

It does nothing …its a so called placebo button.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_button

why are you lying to us anet

Ive seen horrible players complain about MMR hell.

- Ppl who died non stop (10+ times per game) every game i played with or against them.
- Ppl who seem to do little to no pressure or healing resulting in them getting 1vs2 or even 1v3ed.
- Ppl who have clearly no clue about rotations, capping empty points with 3-4 etc.

And still they complain about being stuck in MMR hell.

Its never their fault…always the sucky teammates that keep them down.

I whent from plat to gold this season. Partially it was due to ppl randomly afking….but it was partially because i sucked aswell the first few games.

Arenanet is asmall low budget company.

You are making it sound as if they have the personal to deal with reports

A lot of people just spam abbilities on CD. If u use this vs condi thief youlll die 100% of the time.

The only i repeat only thing u need to do is starting to look at and hit the thief at the end of the dodge. He will spam dodges or dodge like abbilities whcih makes it super predictable and therfor easy to counter.

Should rename the thread to never played a game where u can kill the rank 1 as beginner by cheesing it.

As someone who played a very broad spectrum of competetive games for about 20 years i can say CCs arent the issue in this game. We have ways to deal with CCs, like swapping uttis for that extra stunnbreaker etc.

The main issue is the lack balance between risk and reward. A lot of the builds have cheap ways to be succesfull. There is very little build up and skill required in quite a few cases.

“big hits " should require

- Build up. For example: a combo string of landed moves leading to that 1 major dmg move.
- Be relatively hard to hit. A slow big telegraph move for example or a move that has to be aimed precicely.
- Coming from a super glassy build that takes a huge risk getting in to a position to do that dmg.

Since we lack the above in quite a few cases the game feels really super shallow. Ppl can run in to pvp and be relatively succesfull by cheesing it. I can hop on a class i dont play a lot…switch to a super cheesy build and kill ppl that played their respective builds for 1000+ hours.

There isnt a competetive game on the market where that is possible.

Burn guard has like no sustain…stay away from him and let your pet + ranged attacks do the work.

Counter his blink with staff 3. Once his blink is on cd he is pretty much dead meat.

hiems.8769:

You crearly don’t understand what’s going on here. It doesn’t have anything to do with DS, it’s the warrior fault of not getting the traps and not stoping the chain with a simple press of a button, besides, you need to have a huge coordenation with your partner to do a cc chain like that. I played with Hydra on wotlk, if you think you can do it without being a pro player, join Arena Tournament and try.

Ooh hey Kalimist, didnt know u played GW2. Its me Vilroth.

As you know im a multiglad aswell.

NotASmurf.1725:

Wow has diminishing returns, a lot of the CC breaks on damage, and most silences do nothing if they miss whereas here you’ll get locked out of your skills if they land.

jihm.2315:

you guys gonna do anything about that damage?
the battles have no momentum at all two teams clash the one gets the capture point in 5 seconds game over.

Seems like that due to the huge skill gap between players in “rated” games atm. Top 10 players get placed in to matches with players that never played before. The result is that ppl die fast.

And ppl experiment with builds so the need for sustain gets thrown out of the window.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Things that hardcounter a thief (this is assuming ppl knowing how to use the builds):

1.) DH Meta Trapper
2.) Most condi builds (Condi Chrono, Condi reaper, even Burn Guard can apply enough constant burn, and P/P engi…things with strong condi pressure)
3.) Anything with strong AoE (where facetanking isnt usually an option for teef)
4.) Highly Mobile Zerker
5.) DPS PewPew / Staff Druids (Range and those channeled attacks can be easily fatal)

Condi reaper, pp engi and "highly mobile " zerker get hardcountered by the (dp) thief…not the other way around.

Easily doable on:

Necro – ive played core power necro at plat lvl most of the season.
Guard – core (burn) guard was super common throughout the season.
Engineer – burn engi is playable but as some others said niche and overall not as strong as scrapper.
Ranger – core power ranger is quite strong with the changes to stab.

Azukas.1426:

Actually 10 v 10 is the sweet spot. Once you watch the game mode you lean to see what’s going on. You can see the blocks, buffs, heals, etc.

I could personally watch 20 v 20 and identify what’s taking place

HoT though is tough I’ll admit. Reason I said core only

Then do a commentary on one of those 15vs15 GvG videos and tell me what is going on. I simply can’t trust you on this

Because all those casters on GvG games must be so bad that the only thing they are saying are like ‘oh x player is down. y player is low’.

https://youtu.be/xAvenVycRvI

This is really the only shoutcasted GvG source I can remember. This is the last episode or he may have done another one. He does go through 2 matches an episode where he describes what’s going on.

Have to remember there was no option to spectate like PvP and all the streams from players had zero comms being broadcasted due the innate secrecy of them & builds.

See if you can identify why the top two teams in each region won the matches

Describing comps and telling the viewers how they are buffing up is considered shoutcasting?

There isnt a single thing anyone in this game can tell me that insults or even annoys me.

The only ones that get phased by comments like this are insecure individuals.

So dear OP; id recommend that you work on your self esteem and dont let minor things like this bother you.

Shaogin.2679:

Weird, almost as if different players had different experiences. Must mean that personal experience in an old system that has little relevance to the new proposed system is pointless.

No

Youre either making things up or you had a random lucky moment or two where 1-2 other teams played. Making you believe this was an ungoing thing.

I played 15k games, mosty during those days. I was part of the furniture in GW2 pretty much.

Team queue was and will be dead if they ever introduced it again. The pvp community isnt big big enough to support it.

Hell even wow doesnt even have a pvp community thats big enough to support 5v5s or consistant RBGs and that pvp community is gigantic compared to GW2s.

Shaogin.2679:

Really, cause I played team queue back in the day and that wasn’t my experience at all. Also, if the only way to queue into ranked is to have a team ready or make one using lfg tool, then the queue times wouldn’t change. The system wouldn’t need to struggle looking for another team amongst a pool of solo players. Everyone would be in a team.

Thats weird …

All these ggroups claiming to have played back in the day. Yet when i tried to climb the team queue ladder solo and with a group of pure pve tribesmates that have no talent or desire to be any good in pvp i found the ladder to be pretty much teamless.

Got in to the top 50 both solo and with those pve ers. Queue sessions during peak hours lead to:

- super long queue times
- if I/we got queues it was vs ppl that didnt dodge or ppl with pve builds….all the way up to the top of the ladder.

So where where you?

Magnito.6187:

That totally reminds me of how PvP used to be before HoT got introduced. The toxicity right now compared to back then, has had a huuuuge increase. By the simple reason no one wants to play together with them.

Which made a way better and healthy PvP environment. The current system encouraged “me, me, me” and “I, I, I” way too much. And no matter being toxic, friendly, winning or losing, you’ll get the rewards anyhow, at the end of the day.

I repeat myself, as I have done many times before.. Why.. the hell.. would you make a team oriented game mode solo/duoqueue? It ruined the mentality and the whole PvP scene. And don’t tell me something like “uh, because there was no competition back then”, because, really, is there now?

You couldnt be more wrong.

It has nothing to do with solo and duo queue.

It has everything to do with lacking popularity of pvp in and GW2 as a whole. This results in poor matchmaking and conflicts of interests. People who grind for achs, do dailies, are there for the first time and people who try to be competetive are all in the same games.

THIS creates tension.

Tapps.1479:

Please allow 5 man queueu

Step A: Form a group
Step B: the groupleader says over teamspeak or whatever he queued up.

Wait for 45 mins…

Step C: Let the group leader pretend to requeue

Wait another 45 mins.

Result: you experienced teamqueue as it was and as it will be if they are ever dumb enough to listen to the 10-20 ppl who have the weird idea that the GW2 pvp community is strong enough to support a 5 man ladder.

This would be the final nail in the coffin for GW2 pvp.

GW2s pvp community isnt big enough to come even remotely close to a full fledged competetive 5v5 ladder.

Rod.6581:

We are more sad than angry. It looks to me people who are against 5 man queue are the angry and bitter ones.

Noone in this thread is against it… in fact we wish it was possible/sustainable.

I dont think pvp in GW2 (or MMOs in general) is popular enough to fill up a 5v5 ladder. Its a lot harder to keep the games flowing if you look at ladders with bigger groups in MMO pvp. Last implementation meant you could queueu but wouldnt get a pop within a reasonable timeframe 80% of the time (this meant having to wait 45 minutes most of the time).

Lets compare it with wow 5v5 arena. Good solid MMR system, really good incentives and a massive pvp community when compared to GW2s. Yet the same issue occured as with 5 man queues in Guild Wars 2. Played games during peak hours one day… and didnt get queues to pop the days after.

Its a bigger hassle to organize a playing session for your 5v5 team. This leads to inconsistant playing sessions. One moment a lot of ppl will play and the next moment no team will play. If ppl dont get queues they will stop playing that ladder.

To get back to that wow example. I played some 5v5 in that game on multiple chars spread across my 2 accounts. Every single time i tried to 5v5 we got games the first few days. Did well, had fun and wanted to play the next day or the day after. No queue pop.

Same applied to RBGs…..and same applied to 5v5 in GW2.

Shaogin.2679:

Maybe you prefer the old system, I don’t know. You seem to think nothing has changed. Personally though, I love what they have done with pvp for the most part and many others seem to feel the same way. This is why I say it’s not a good comparison to say “well we had a split queue back then and it didn’t work so therefore it will never work again”.

You love what they have done to pvp? What do you love? What is better now compared to then?

While the system itself got more polished the pvp itself is arguably worse, more spammy and less skillbased.

Engi for example whent from a highly skill and timing dependant prof during the rabid engi days till the spammy “I run around and just rotate all my stuff on CD” prof it is today.

The game itself became a lot more about “just spamming your (aoe) spells on cd and on point”. Think reaper vs old school necro. DH vs old school guard. Chrono vs old school mesmer.

Name one class that became more skillbased now if compared to just before HOT?

And ooh ye. The matchmaking is better if compared to the old days when ladders where split?

The system itself might be better. But due to the limited size of GW2 pvp community the matchmaking is pretty much the same. To avoid super long queues ppl will get matched up vs and with eachother, even if theyre far apart in rating.

“many others seem to feel the same way”.

Within my circle of in game friends/contacts ppl think the direct opposite. They feel the game whent from bad to worse.

Most of the time when i check GW2 on twitch, i dont even see a single pvp streamer with more than 10 viewers. All big names quited or just logg on to cash in during the bigger tournaments.

You must be the biggest optimist ever to think that adding another ladder to GW2 pvp will be succesfull.

Dear mister Shoagin Your post is littered "facts"that arent backed up by anything.

“PvP population has improved from what it used to be for starters.”

Ohh?

What you need to maintain a 5v5 ladder is consistancty. You need a huge mix of hardcore and casual teams to fill a ladder from top to bottom. Besides random teams that play once a month you need teams that play hours per day aswell. What factual data do you have that shows that the population is big and consistant enough to maintain a ladder like this?

“However, as previously mentioned, if they did something as simple as having a Guild Team Queue with the top Guilds getting something to meaningful to show off at the end, I could see that drawing some attention. "

You need teams that play for the sake of playing to fill up a ladder. Incentivizing is great but it needs to be the cherry on the top. If the incentive becomes the main draw your ladder will die out. People will do “just enough” to get to the incentive and thats it. A clear cut example is RBGs in wow. Where the top teams play 1 day after each weekly reset. Once their obligated weekly games are done, they stop playing. Result is that queues whont pop on any day but that reset day (if youre above a certain rating)

“Point is, a properly implemented Team Queue could possibly work with the current population and new PvP features. So much has changed in PvP since the old split queues that it is at least worth a try. Not to mention, it’s pretty silly to deny PvP players the opportunity to compete alongside their friends/guild in an MMO.”

Possibly? So much has changed? What has changed?

Its not about not wanting a teamqueue …. its about GW2 pvp not being popular enough to maintain a consistant 5v5 queue.

“Also, implying that a separate Team Queue shouldn’t exist simply because a poorly implemented version of it (which wasn’t even a 5v5 queue, it was a mixed queue) existed long ago when PvP was a shadow of what it is now is a pretty poor reason.”

So what youre saying that the ladder got poorly implemented and the pvp was a shadow of its former self? Two statements that are both vague and non factual.

choovanski.5462:

That explanation is debated. furthermore guild wars and the community are not the same as they were.

So what changed?

What makes you think it will work this time around?

gw niko.1049:

Locoz, when I talk about 5-player-teamqueue, I´m talking about premade groups. So you couldn´t even queue solo. So what are you even talking about?

Dont get me wrong. I wish GW2 pvp was popular enough that it can support a 5 man ladder…but it isnt.

There used to be a time when we had 2 ladders: one for solo players and one for teams. The teamladder was so unpopular tho that i got in to the top 100 while playing solo. That was during a time when GW2 was notably more popular on media like twitch etc.

They needed the solo players back then to get queues to pop. I remember the times i did queue with a team that we had to wait for 30+ minutes in between games. Just to get a game vs a group of solo players.

What makes you think that a 5 man or team only ladder could work this time around?

What changed?

Pvp in GW2 is a minigame….dont expect more and you whont get disappointed

gw niko.1049:

Without a 5-player-teamqueue, you will never have a working mmr based matchmaking.
So I guess you have to decide what you want. MMR based matchmaking what actually works. Or a single-player queue.
And I don´t know if the spvp player population is great enough to fill both, a sinlge- player-queue and a 5-player-team-queue.
If you ask me they have to force people to a 5-player-teamqueue.
They need to try it if they rly ever want a working mmr based matchmaking.

The spvp in this game was never suppost to be a grindfest for some pve fuc**** who what some fancy skins and chest!! So why we are even discussing about this.

We had a split group/5 man and soloq ladder in the past….

The community wasnt big enough to fill the 5 man ladder up. The quality of games was so low that i got in to the top 100 of the teamq while playing solo.