RIP Guild Wars…After watching the last streaming Esports event… its deafanitely confirmed.. they have bunkerd every build to its max…. Blade and Soul on the 19th and then on until the next up and coming 2016 line up of promising MMOS
Blade and soul will be fun for its skill based skirmishes at least. If youre bad in that game you will fail. Headstart is today allready.
Black Dessert will be fun for its world pvp. More skillbased than meta GW2 (then again what game isnt?) and more freeform. Not like GW2 is a competetive anyway so it might aswell be random world pvp skirmishes right?
Stronghold is fine in ranked. It’s a different game mode, so requires different builds, and more communication among a team. So yes, people who don’t understand the mode are going to do poorly. That doesn’t mean it should be taken out.
And it’s far more interesting than conquest bunker nonsense.
Since most experienced pvpers skip it and stick to conquest; matchmaking for SH is non excistant. If a group of legends q stronghold they will face a mix of ambers to diamonds and 100% win in blowout fashion = easy pip farm.
Ive had terrible lobsided games due to this. Where 1 or 2 lower rated ppl teamed with 1 diamond got in to my games with or against me (i only soloq myself). Resulting in a blowout game for either team.
I dont want easy wins and i dont want blowout losses.
I want matchmaking to work and both teams with even minded skilled and experienced players. Is that so hard to understand?
Actually i think it doesnt matter, it comes down to team play and good coordenation.
i did all divisions up to legendary, solo and with the core spec.
if u cant or are stuck in some division its just a l2p issue.
You mean like how you got stuck in the %s for 3000 games?
But ye, ive just started to level my pre hot account up a bit. Dmg seems fine and is actually quite good vs some of the meta monkeys.
I’d advise you to stay at ruby and spare yourself of the joke that is diamond specially with this new kitten matchmaking. Haven’t seen poor rotations, profession understanding, map awareness like this in emerald yet they are so abundant in diamond.
GG anet
Bullkitten, besides a handfull that cheated their way up ….. most diamond players or better are miles ahead of most ppl who are stuck in ruby or lower.
Its usually quite obvious when i see a ruby in my team; its typically the guy that dies non stop or the one who sticks around stomping that single guy with 3.
1] MMR system is bad
2] popularity is decreasing (partially due to that)
3] Queue times get longer and longer
4] Anet has to broaden the search criteria of MMR to get even worse matchups.
Instead of fixing 1 they only make the situation worse
- With 20 ESL players per region i reaaaally dont see how you can get paired with them so often.
- You don’t lose pips every time you lose. I’ve gained pips when losing before.
- Lastly, wtf are you doing with a new player in structured PvP? Unranked, hello?
- Im talking in extremes to make a point. The matchmaking “fix” will match ppl with other ppl way out of their league.
- Irrelevant. Point is, the system will match teams as if they are equals even if they arent. So u can lose pips if u lose while playing with a higher rated guy AND vs guys that are even higher rated than he is.
- Its not about me…i solo q 99% of the time. The last time i queued as a group was at the start of the season. After sapphire it was pure solo. I get that u are biased and only look at the pros and cons for you as a player. This system ruins matchmaking.
but the lesser evil is that ppl in generall will queue less frequent with “lowbies” as the gain is gone. Now only those who for example are close friends may queue. This should result in less cases where u lose cuz of big gaphs between players.
You guys make it sound as if there are only 2 options….
There are games that succesfully implemented a system with a personal rating/mmr. Where u have no abuse like this and teams get matched vs equals.
Either they step up, split or go unranked the solution is easy. Lemme ask you this, if you play with a group of friends mainly, how is it possible 4 are Amber and the other is legendary? Clearly you did not play that much with them. As such I would suggest to the legendary to do what he did most of the season, group up with different people or soloq.
Besides the personal interest of the players who are queueing. The matchamking itself makes no sense if you match a full legendary team with a mixed group of players.
AND at times its not up to you.
2 games ago i had a duoq team in my team while soloqing myself. One of the duoq was legend, other was sapphire. Sapphire guy probs died 20 times during a single game. While its bad for them its also bad for the guys who didnt make the decision to queueu up with a beginner….the rest of us.
A good MMR system should match u with and vs ppl of similar skilllevel and experience. This isnt the case with this new fix.
Do you think its fair that a skilled player like yourself gets matched up with an average emerald/ruby team cause you queu with amber friends ?
Thats only an issue if its intentional abuse. If the amber is in fact a true beginner id say a sapphire/ruby matchup would be hard enough for him allready.
After this fix hell get matched vs full teams of legendary players.
Basicly excludes a lot of players from playing together.
In no competitive sports or play carries are rewarded, the previous gw2 system did reward carries. Guess what innate to pvp is competition.
Youre mixing things up. Im not saying the old system wasnt bad, it clearly was. Im saying there are better ways to fix this issue (like implementing a wow ladder type of mmr system).
The carries we where talking about wherent system related at all.
I think people didn’t get the meaning of the fix.
Division counts as 50% of your score in the matchmaking (other 50% is MMR)
While queuing in party your “division” was averaged between the other of the group (that’s why people used to party with ambers, so that in the end they would count as 2 sapphires, o rubies).
No the party average is the highest division in the party (amber+diamond = diamond).
Other stuff hasn’t changed.
In the future tho they’ll give more weight to the division (i guess) and probably make some adjustments in pug vs premade scenario.
I think you dont get that other ppl do get this “fix”.
Id say its a bad thing, since all the non abusive mixed groups are basicly kittened. They will get matched vs far better teams than their average teamdiv/skill.
Like you would get matched up with the abjured. Anyways I really like the patch, every match has been a breeze vs other diamonds.
In fact i would. Im at the higher end of the MMR spectrum/leaderboard (was top 7 on my old US alt pre dec 14 patch etc) If i would q with ppl from the PvX guild i was in it would be a disaster. They struggle and get 1v2ed vs random ruby players let alone vs top end players
You think that ambers/sapphires being matched against legend because that legend grouped with 2 ambers (who weren’t real ambers skillwise to begin with…) would result in increase of popularity? Dream on…
Yes since everyone who queues with someone from another div is an abuser right?
This patch stops abuse but makes the game unplayable unless your entire team is the same in terms of skilllevel and div. AND ppl will get crazy number of pips vs mediocre teams since they have 1 good player.
Do you think its fair u get the same number of pips vs the abjured as u get vs a random mixed div guild team with players varrying from legend to amber?
There isn’t issues with ladder system/mmr because no one cares that people get carried. But the only reason WoW’s system works is because it is incredibly precise in that it waits until you get very close MMR’s. WoW has a higher pop thus they can sustain this type of system. If GW2 had this system you would see too high of queues, and then people would complain about that.
The flaws i see are mainly this. One – it is based around 3v3 and a high population. Two once you have a low population you begin to see the same issues with the WoW mmr system (ie 2.1k facing 1.8k) basically it would be an improvement but most of the same issues would be present just in different forms.
Carries arent system related. Carries and boosts will happen if the reward system excludes some of the more prestigious rewards from 99.50% of the community. There is nothing u can do prefenting abuse like that.
Longer queues are fine as long as the results are quality matches.
By making the system worse just makes the size of the community drop even more. Its super counterproductive and shows a clear lack of long term vision.
Check the US forums. EU is completely different in alot of ways. All i know is everyone i PvP with on wow is pretty dissatisfied. Also the pvp population in WoW has dropped INCREDIBLY over this expac
Im not talking about balance issues. The subject is the MMR system. Please point me to a valid thread complaining about the ladder system/MMR.
Uhh, WoW PvP has actually gotten really bad lately. I play WoW daily and am 2150 right now in 3’s with 2300xp from back in wotlk. There are ALOT of carries these days. and the issue with WoW Is that there are some really OP 3’s comps right now. The idea with WoW however is that they have the population to support the way there MMR functions. The issue with WoW’s ladder though is that it is highly abusable in a selling type structure. I used to sell carries and it’s NEVER been easier as it is now. There’s been nothing but complains in the WoW PvP forums lately, they actually have more complains then we do.
Im a multiglad myself that was part of one of the biggest RBG boost selling networks in EU. I know how boosts work and u cant prefent those. Dont think GW2 lends itself for these kind of practices tho since its less anonymous and the only relevant seasonal reward is actual money.
Wows MMR system itself is fine and working as intended. Do me a favour and manualy check all pages on the eu forums. Please show me the threads with complaints you mentioned.
This is why I told everyone when they proposed their solution to the exploit issue that the proposed change is terrible.
Once again its taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut. And it will just result in less fun pvp and more people just quitting.
You can’t try to solve a bunch of exploiters queuing with low ranks by penalising the vast majority of people who just play with friends at different ranks. Now all those people are screwed. So there will be less people pvping because according to anet they can no longer play with friends.
I doubt there are many people without friends at different ranks. And now if player A (sapphire) wants to queue with player B (legend) because they are friends then guess what. Player A will jsut get farmed and player B will be guarenteed to lose. It leads to just terrible situations.
End result = more dead pvp. Just like when they “fixed” 4 vs 5’s (it didnt work btw seen as most 4v5 was due to people rage quitting or dcing) by making you accept the queue pop and therefore sit in the heart of the mists.
- If you queue with friends and one is diamond or higher? Get ready to get stomped by ESL teams even if half of your team consists of beginners.
- Get ready to get flamed hard if you duo q with a lower rated friend. Since your entire team will suffer due to the lower skilled/division friend that ends up in matches way out of his league.
- Get ready to gain lots of pips vs teams that are made up off 80% sub par players with 1 player that plays more often. All of a sudden u gain the same pips for esl teams and random guild teams that have 1 legendary and a couple of lower rated ppl.
- Hey lets introduce some friends to pvp and play some games together? Well we cant really since playing with me = playing vs tournament level teams, which isnt fun for newer players.
Good. This is actually the only good part of the new matchmaking.
No
Result is that less players will be able to play together = drop in popularity. A result of that drop is that matchmaking will be worse since anet wants to keep q times short.
Clearly they shipped the update today with a bug. This is 100% contrary to what they communicated would happen, unless I misunderstood somehow.
No its not a bug. Popularity is dropping. In order to keep q times short they made the MM search broader. Instead of tackling the actual causes of the lack of popularity.
If i choose to play with a 1300 rated player while being 2700 rated:
- i get matched vs teams around 2000 rating, which is the average of 1300 and 2700
- the lower rated player gains a lot of MMR/rating and loses close to nothing.
- the higher rated player gains next to nothing while losing a lot of he loses.
Lets translate that to GW2s system. If a legendary div player teams up with an amber:
- matches vs on average sapphire teams.
- The lower rated player gains 3 or even more pips untill he reached the avg mmr and loses close to nothing for losses.
- The higher rated player gains nothing untill the MMR + div are close enough to his own . While losing a lot if he loses.
Conclusion: pip/ MMR gains and losses should be calculated per teammate instead of teamwide. Its the only way to avoid MMR abuse.
Can you imagine what would happen if the GW2 division system would be “translated” in to wows system? The wow community would think that Blizzard devs are on drugs.
Its literally hilariously amateuristic. Shiny looks but Anets lack of experience in implementing functioning MMR/pvp systems shines through.
So some guy in my last match thought it was a great idea to q up with two of his lower division friends. Of course they got smacked and in the process making everyone lose 2 pips. GG anet GG
At times it feels like Anet devs read and speak a different langauge. A language where yes means no and no means yes.
Pre patch; the majority of complaints where caused by uneven mathups. What do they do? They broaden the matchmaking which causes more uneven matchmaking.
Dear Anet devs.
If you want to shorten waiting times, you need to make good balance changes. AND create a functioning MMR/ladder/league system that places even minded/ skilled / experienced players in the same matches. That by itself will draw more players in and make less ppl quit = better matchmaking.
Your “fixes” are like temporarely fixing one issue while creating another on the other end.
As much as i hate facing premade teams as solo queue, you cant really separate it without a player pool almost no game actually has unless you are prepared to spend a lot of time sitting in queue.
What needs to get balances is the expectation of victory in the sense that a bunch of solo players have a far lower chance of winning against a team with premade groups in it even if all other things are equal.
A bunch of solo queue players should not lose excessive pips facing a team that has grouped players in it.
I’ve had many matches where i have lost multiple pips in a match that i never had any realistic chance of winning. That is what needs to be taking into account and the rest wont matter that much
The funny thing is…that this meta makes the difference between 5 random higher rated soloq players + a premade relatively small.
There is only a select group of teams that manages to steamroll higher end soloq players. The rest are surpringly close. Mostly due to a meta that requires very little coordination/rotations.
OK I like teasing content and stuff as much as anyone, but it would be too cruel to just … show that off on the dev client all “Haha look what we can do in the office and you will never have it muahaha!”
I would never, ever do that, I swear.
Can u play black dessert in your office? That would make me jealous :-/
Those who want to compete in teams, in season 2, you will be forced all to play at the highest tier, for example, you have a pre-made team like this: amber, sapphire, diamond, ruby, legendary.. you will face legendary opponents… good luck in season 2!
Ye will be fun. ppl who cant dodge or with less than 20 games played facing ESL teams.
Queueing with low ranks causes win prediction to be way less than 50% giving a big advantage to get to higher ranks.
I know a player who was at my rank from emerald to ruby during the first week. I noticed him always asking for players to join his party in map chat. His gameplay was nothing special. Skill level around mine if not lower. He is now in legendary.
Ranks do not represent skill at all. Everyone can get a low rank to queue up with to climb ranks easily.
Just need to hope that there will be no rewards for the ranks.
Fixed as in… making anything but 100% players from the same division within the same team a screwed up setup.
- If you queue with friends and one is diamond or higher? Get ready to get stomped by ESL teams even if half of your team consists of beginners.
- Get ready to get flamed hard if you duo q with a lower rated friend. Since your entire team will suffer due to the lower skilled/division friend that ends up in matches way out of his league.
- Get ready to gain lots of pips vs teams that are made up off 80% sub par players with 1 player that plays more often. All of a sudden u gain the same pips for esl teams and random guild teams that have 1 legendary and a couple of lower rated ppl.
- Hey lets introduce some friends to pvp and play some games together? Well we cant really since playing with me = playing vs tournament level teams, which isnt fun for newer players.
It’s easy to stay bad when broken builds and stupid classes carry you to victory.
^ This.
The absurd number of horrible DHs for example is astounding. While at first opponents who face them rush on to point and tank the trap dmg…..in later divs they have higher IQs and counter them easily.
The changes are great a lot of people don’t understand them or don’t think leagues should be competitive and think that if you “put in the time” you should be able to get into ruby or diamond through grinding. Average MMR matchmaking was the biggest fraud ever foisted on us. Why in the world should veteran players who know what they are doing have to play with people that don’t know the basics even up to like Diamond there are tons of people that don’t know basics rotations and strategies. Basically average MMR matchmaking carried them until they could lose tiers. They even said it int the inital post that for higher MMR players there matches in amber aren’t much different then ruby and beyond. That’s ridiculous for leagues they wan’t to be competitive. And not just for higher people I consider myself ok I was around 90th percentile in the old MMR based leaderboard which is good not great or anything. My matches were the same competitivewise (mostly blow outs in either direction) in amber as they are in ruby and diamond. I just want to feel like I am progressing and if I hit a wall where I can’t progree more Ill either get better or just 50/50 and plateu.
What will happen now is this:
Diamond player plays with an amber. Np right since they will only screw themselves over right? Wrong. All of a sudden your diamond or legendary team has a a random amber player in its midst, since two friends decided to play together.
Random guild group of mixed division players are all of a sudden playing vs full groups of diamond or legendary players. On average they might be just above beginner level but that single diamond or whatever will carry? right?
Well that doesnt matter right? Since the losing team just needs to play with players closer to their own exp level. Right? It doesnt just influence that specfic group. It literally makes matchmaking and pip gains random as kitten. All of a sudden teams get max rewards for winning vs groups that are 90% made up of bottom tier players. It literally makes no sense.
why the kitten arent they copy pasting working systems instead of creating their own crappy super amateuristic version?
So to stop pro teams exploiting by queuing with newbs….you basically ruin it for the huge majority of people who want to play with friends. You took a sledge hammer to crack a nut. Awful.
There’s always unranked.
Or they could chance it so it doesnt screw it up for anyone?
Copy paste working MMR systems like the ones used by Blizzard, u know that company with far superior system designers.
I wouldn’t worry about it. Just wait until Season 2 when win streaks bumps you over that hump.
But thats a bad thing. We dont want a more volatile/luck based system.
It shouldnt be about completing the journey from amber to legendary. It shoulld be about getting to the division where u belong at and staying there untill you get better.
You ArenaNet should allow both falls in the division as in tier starting in amber.
Thus only the best players come to catch legendary division and also would cause weaker skills of players fell short.
Because those who are more casual should go unranked or play RANKED only to play, I believe that the intention of the league is more for the hardcore
Only need to adjust himself is the MMR and balance patch.
since the league system division, tier and pips,I think very good this system.
this is not a good system because for anyone who isnt great the system would not be fun
You think ppl getting to divisions they dont belong at and getting slaughtered like that is better?
Ive seen plenty of examples of ruby players who wouldve been better of if they didnt reach ruby. Met a guy who reached ruby but whos is literally canon fodder every game ive played against or with him. Its sad and cant be enjoyable for him.
As a matter of fact, I’d be willing to bet that there is a direct negative correlation between the amount of trash being talked and the actual player skill.
During the 13+ years ive played online games (mostly at the top of each ladder) ive encountered the direct opposite. A lot of the best players are the biggest trash talkers or even ragers.
You do realize that division doesnt matter right? Its not like..hey that guy is diamond, he will one shot whole team due to +1000000000000stats. Its not how it works at all. Time to end such exploits as this one in pic. If thats a problem you can always go unranked and que there together really.
You are pretending that in general there is no quality difference between players in certain divsions?
There are seperate examples of players that are better or worse than there division indicates. But the average sapphire player is worse than the average diamond player.
Most random guild teams will consist of mixed division players. Which will basicly be an easy pip farm for any regular pvp team. Without using extremes and without taking classes/setups in to consideration ill put this in an example.
Team A: mixed casual guild group with a mix of 3 sapphires, 1 ruby and 1 diamond player.
Team B: set team that plays toghether with 5 diamond level players.
The system will see them as equal. Result = uneven matchup and easy pip gain for team B.
The only fair system is a system like we see in wow. Based on individual mmr /div vs the opposing teams mmr/div.
So… if a top end player queues with 4 beginners, the entire team will be matched as if its a top end team? And nobody sees issues when doing it like this?
Youll basicly see super uneven matchups and kitten pip gain and losses due to this. You stopped the old MMR abuse, but create another problem to replace that abuse.
Are you guys kidding me? Is this the wow forum now or what? MMOs are typically broad and a mix of good + sucky elements. So saying game a is better than b makes u sound like such a kitten. A couple of the things i liked/didnt like about BnS.
BnS combat is far superior if compared to GW2. Its deep and skillbased across the board. Its basicly a combo of old school fighting games like super smash bros, soul calibur etc mixed with an MMO.
There is no way you can pick up a class/build and be succesfull within a few hours like in GW2. So i guess its a bit less casual which is a bit of a pro and con at the same time, depending on what type of player you are i guess.
The PvE zones are the typical boring korean MMO drab, quite comparable to Tera, Aion and such. So the biggest challenge will be leveling up.
Did all the wow kids join GW2 now? You guys start to sound exactly the same as what ive read on the wow forums when GW2 or fill in any other random new MMO came out.
Back on topic….
BnS is great in terms on combat. Imo better than anything we have on the MMO market right now (havent played BDO yet tho). Its basicly a mix of old school fighting games and an MMO.
The PvE world itself is a bit meh. Aion BNS Tera feel all quite similar in terms of world design, questing hell even the minimap + that map overlay is designed in same way.
