Guild Wars 2

bliss.4305:

Assuming you have more than 19k games under your belt with an equal win-loss ratio and can enlighten me in the concept of high-tier? Or you could just be a forum warrior

There’s a difference between high-tier pvp (high mmr pvp) and Pro league ESL pvp… Sure Xerrex may not be a pro-league player but I would indeed include him in the pool of high-mmr players simply cause of his sheer number of games played and average w/l.

I have around 10k games played and a w/l of around 60% on the account i play on currently. Does this mean im high tier aswell? I played a lot of soloq games against and with Xerrex. So i guess i must be (in your eyes).

All BS aside. Number of games has nothing to do with being high tier….in that case Prince Vingador is high tier aswell. In fact, the highest of tiers lol.

bliss.4305:

Oh and condi mesmers are still very much viable in high-tier pvp, a few hours in Xerrex’s stream on twitch will give you enough footage to support that claim.

Lol Xerrex is high tier now? …im done. Haha

In all honesty Ithilwen, if youre below 50% its you. You need to look at yourself and the impact you have on games.

Dont focus on the system behind MMR since most games are a roll of the dice in that department anyway. Everyone gets matched with everyone if there is no other option available. Its just how anet prefers it…short q times over quality matchups.

bliss.4305:

supvil.3470:

He is right tho. Condi mesmers are actually absolutely kitten in rated pvp.

Its a pure wvw roaming/troll spec. Where the extra condi damage from gear, consumables and wvw specific buffs make it that they actually do enough damage to kill someone with proper condi clears.

facepalm

Why are you facepalming? He is right. Condimesmers are purely for wvw roaming. Maybe at low MMR it works but everything works at low MMR. I mean i dominate as PP thief on low MMR. Does this mean its a viable build atm?

Ithilwen was right about mesmers being quite bad for quite a while aswell. Mostly because they got hard countered by thieves. Which lead to most thieves spawn camping mesmers for entire games.

Kumion.7580:

Mesmer typically doesn’t do a lot of burst damage, but their utilities are welcome among the majority of groups.

Wait what? mesmers dont do a lot of burst damage?

Lol they do some of the best burst in game. Just an example of a game with multiple mesmer burst moments vs one of the most tanky classes in the game (necro).

I see plenty of ppl that think they know they are beaten, even before the game started.

Bad players really dont understand how kittened this map can be if you play vs good engis like me.

Used to dominate kitten Skyhammer when it was still in the rotation. Up to a point where i made worldchamps like ROM and hellseth ragequit while they where streaming. Had games where i pulled guys like that 4-5 times during a single game…

In games with bad players the map is ok…since you rarely get pulled. These days the map only excists in non rated (haven for bad players) so its not that bad.

It was literally like this on my engi:

- Roam from our home to far without sticking/dedicating to one point. Dedicating to one point means that people know that u are there during a certain moment/when they run up to a point.
- Wait untill your pull target engages in a 1v1 or w/e. wait for a dodge and (preferably stealth pull right after (down the hole).

Its literally uncounterable if the guy who pulls executes well.

- Stab does nothing since the guy who pulls will just wait till a moment without stab…and there is no perma stab.
- Positioning does nothing either. Pulls can be from anywhere iuncluding on top of the ledges. The pull will happen after u start fighting over a point, so its very likely your fighting on top or close to the point anyway.
- Playing that “right build” to counter it does nothing either since there is no build that is immune to pulls.

So i was basicly boxing with someone who was allready boxing 1v1, where i basicly suckerpunched him from the back.

Its basicly uncounterable and cheap.

I remember how we complained about how annoyign those constant pop ups where when u where (for example) inn a duel server while waiting.

This makes it pretty much undoable to do anything but sit in HotM and wait 5-10 minutes staring at your screen.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I never understood why you would get punished with Dishonorable for leaving a match or why you can’t just exit a match you’ve already entered anyway. I honestly do not give a flying fart that people think you’re a jerk for leaving a match. It is incredibly stupid that you’re forced to stay for the entire duration once you’ve Q’d and that no one can replace you if you leave and it truly makes me hate PvP in this game. If someone leaves my team, or if I leave a team, that person should be replaced with someone else. Maybe even have an option on whether or not you can Q for matches that have already started. For example, you can check a box that says when you Q for a PvP match you have a chance to replace someone who has left theirs (entering a match already in progress).

I don’t know, I just think that being forced to stay in a match or being shamed for leaving one is a really stupid feature. Sometimes things come up IRL, some of us don’t care to endure a crappy match, etc.

While im fully aware this is a flamebait post…

So since you dont want “endure” your crappy match someone else has to take your spot… to finish a game that was partiallly made crappy by you in the first place?

In fact i think penalties for leaving arent harsh enough. Imo they should suspend your account from playing rated games for 2 weeks if you afk/leave more than 2-3 times within a few days. Those 2 weeks should apply to actual days you are online aswell. So no “i am on holiday the next 2 weeks anyway”.

Dont get me wrong at times (like yesterday) im forced to leave aswell due to real life responsibilities (or a gf pulling the pc plug in this case). But it should be super rare. If its not players leave non stop…. 1v1 lost? leave….small skirmish lost? leave…one person not having the right build? leave etc etc

As someone who played both arenas and RBGs at top level (2400-3000 on multiple chars)* id say its like comparing apples and pears atm. Both games do different things right and (horribly) wrong) Since most ppl here willl focus on promoting GW2 i will make it more of a discussion and sum up some of the things WOW has over GW2 atm.

- Overall wows pvp communty is far more competetive due to its age and size.
- Wows MMR/ladder system is far better for competetive play. As top player you will only face other top players. Teammates need to be top tier aswell or you whont make it. Playing with and against equal level players really forces you to get better. Really enjoyable in my eyes.
- Wow is far easier “to read”/watch even without addons which makes it a more of a viewer friendly game. Its less of a cluster kitten. While im not 100% in favour of addons….they can make your UI cleaner and the game easier to read aswell.
- Coordinated play like setting up kills by chaining CCs/interupts is an essential part of top tier play. Literally everyone does it. Its all about who does it better tho. Coordination and communication within your team is far more important than within GW2s skirmishes.
- Wow procs and passives have less impact. The damage or mitigation thereoff is for a bigger part controlled.

*s13(i believe) fight between the two highest RBG teams in EU. Also shows how clean the UI can be with the help of addons: http://i.imgur.com/b6ud71T.jpg
Fight between our team that was unbeaten in S11 or 12 for 4 months and the other topteam Gamesense: http://i.imgur.com/2U7rhSQ.jpg

Last char i played actively: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormscale/Vilroth/achievement#95:165

hackks.3687:

I believe you mean “collapsed”, as in past tense. The player base is in shambles. People queue for Ranked simply to avoid Skyhammer, Courtyard, and Spirit Watch. Most players are there looking for easy PvE loot grinds. From the matches I play there seems to be hardly enough deviation in MMR between the players for the match maker to make any reasonable use of the rating system.

Dead PvP scene is dead. All hail the casual players.

Exactly…u can be vs global champs one game … and ppl who are figuring out that they can dodge the next.

Maybe its the way i play it but found the herald quite a bit stronger than the scrapper.

Really dont see where ppl get the idea that the scrapper is so OP. Played non stop this weekend + today, fought plenty of top tier players who where trying out scrapper. But i never felt like i was fighting something that was over the top.

In fact i wasnt in a single game where the scrapper dominated…and i mustve played like 200 games this weekend.

Saw plenty of games where reapers and esp chronos dominated tho.

Fought some of the better engies on the ladder (Thijsken for ex) last night who where playing scrapper…didnt seem to be that OP.

Schurge.5194:

It almost never happens to me or my opponents… What bracket are you guys in?

Are u telling me that guys at lower MMR are less trollish? :-/

TheGuy.3568:

Let me be frank. It was 4 matches. Just 4 matches. I once had it happen 10 matches in a row. 10 of a couple thousand. It was not worth a post or a change in action. The sky is not falling chicken little.

What about guys intentionally afking and trolling for a day or more. And anet doing nothing despite the reports?

Not worth a change in action?

Anet is a really poor company that lacks resources to tackle people who misbehave in pvp.

My friends tested it out by misbehaving intentionally for a day straight. Nothing happens if you report or get reported. The report button is just there to scare trolls etc….but it serves no purpose atm.

Imo they should get some more interns….or hire ppl from the community to do it.

Lavexis.5360:

that might be the case but if you are able to get their attention then you have created space..

as a p/p thief you should have 3 escape utility skills such as shadow step, refuge or something else.

so you can easily escape from them and go back to the fight.

Nah not really. Once you created their attention youre basicly making it a 4v5 for the rest of the game. Even with more escape uttis theyll focus you down untill youre dead.

Belial.9350:

And if we had character based MMR, how would they stop people from switching class mid-game? About 9ish months ago, people automatically lost if they switched classes and everyone moaned about not being able to switch if they had an unbalanced team comp.

You shouldnt be able to. In a game with depth there should be a night and day difference between your main class and classes that u rarely play.

Especially if you consider that team and soloq are merged. Its clear that arenanet doesnt care one bit about soloq ers and all their QoL issues like mid game class switching.

MMR is still account wide = really bad.

Clearly shows that the devs dont take thier own game serious. They know its really shallow or else they wouldve made splitting MMR a priority.

The only reason u wouldnt is if all classes are so shallow that u can learn them within a day.

Which is how the devs see this game sadly enough :>

Pandaman.4758:

So you’re saying you don’t care. Right, no reasoning with you.

Have u ever cared about me/pvp players and how pve players ruin the fun in pvp while doing their dailies?’

Its so hard to read between the lines isnt it?

Fact is that its a horrible situation where different kinds of players with totally different agendas clash . Is it weird that im sour after that?

Would u like trollish pvp players in your dungeons ruining your fun/ run? No ofcorse not. Thats what im trying to say with this thread.

Pandaman.4758:

You do realize that “PvE players” isn’t some monolithic hive-mind, right? Do you even realize that you’d be trolling people who are innocent or do you just not care?

You mean what a lot of PvE players are doing now in pvp?

RSLongK.8961:

1) really needed that misleading tittle?
2) how are you sure THAT is whats happening? if you open the servers list you will see a lot of custom daily maps. How are you sure that isnt just “pvp people” that are just new and kitten?
3) l2p m8.

2) i play rated only so i dont pick servers. Since they admit they are only there for the dailies. PLUS have titles like two time legend, dungeon master, been there done that or run around with fractal stuff.
3) feel free to check my pvp history on GW2score.

Zaron.1987:

pro tip:

just dont play hot join instead of Q.Q at forum

I only play rated + ive always been decent rated aswell (top 200ish on average).

Since MMR is a non factor in this game, everyone gets matched with everyone tho. You can play with and vs global champions one game and first timers the next.

what we have in rated pvp.

In pvp we have truckloads of PvE players who just troll or play only to do dailies. Quadruple cap empty points, play classes they never played before, afk really fast since all they care about is fast wins or loses or w/e. In other words, playing without care about the team or winning.

Why cant we repay that favour? Why cant i join PvE dungeons/fractals with PvE players having no possibilities to kick me.

Sounds like a typical thief that didnt grasp the idea of playing thief yet. I never played with you OP but let me guess:

1] You go far early no matter what your team comp is. If you team comp lacks sustain and they dont send someone far your team is 3v4 in mid for a good 30+ seconds. More than enough to result in a wipe. You should only push far early in the following situations:

- You know you will win the far point 1v1 in 95% of the cases.
- Your team has enough sustain to stay alive / not lose mid for a while.
- You know the opposing team will send someone to your homepoint early.

2] You push empty points whenever you can. Even if that means you make your teammate go 1v2 on another point or…Even if that means you skip or leave skirmishes that couldve been won with your help.

Dont get me wrong, getting empty points is great. But its all about timing. Doing it at the wrong moment / all game means your team is 4v5 during key skirmishes. Its far more important to tip the scale during important skirmishes than it is to blindly push empty points. Judging by what Chibbi said, this is exactly what you did.

Give a heads up when its gone please. Dont want to queue untill then :-/

The difference between games is absurd.

Of the last 3 games my first 2 where good. Games with what seemed to be evenly matched players. Probably the best two games i played this week.

Than last game happened. I saw in the starting area that my entire team was filled with people with pve titles and what seemed to be pve/wvw specs. We had two thieves with 2 daggers for example. Minutes in to the game i saw the deathblossom spam.

But we actually won since the opposing team was equally bad. Filled with rifle warriors, thieves that just ran to my engi without stealth or openers or w/e. Its hilarious, but wtf why do i have to play with and vs these guys?

My starting MMR shouldve been high enough and it seems that i win 80% of my games as of late so the MMR shouldnt drop that much, should it?

The only real issue is burn stacks from dd eles. Since they have both sustain and those burn stacks. Burns from guards and engis are managable since they lack that sustain. They are glassy and very susceptible for counters if their “condi burst” fails.

Just curious if anyone from Anet has an answer to this:

The last match i played today….where these players really even remotely close to my MMR? We won a game that was for a big part 4v5. Solod 3 of them at one point. Couple of them probably didnt even know its possible to dodge in this game.

A staff ele teammate of mine stood on a ledge in the middle at Khylo and tanked a warrior untill he died. I peeled and healed from below the ledge. He just stood there and turreted damage on to the middle untill he died.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Your MMR is still volatile since you haven’t played many matches. The more you play, the better matchmaking will become for you. Also remember that ranked and unranked have separate MMRs so if you decide to jump into Ranked when you hit 20, you will have a similar experience until you adjust for that new pool of players.

Evan i have a great idea!! You probably never thought of this one….

But what about putting new accounts (which are more often than not new players) or even accounts that havent played pvp yet at the lower end of the MMR spectrum.

Can you imagine what a miserable experience it must be for a new player. Within a handfull of games he is forced to play vs world champions/tournament winners instead of players of his own level.

Why are you doing this to new players? Why are you making their lives miserable? Why do you maintain a system like this?

Saiyan.1704:

The previous SoloQ leaderboard was the most frustrating, ridiculous system ever. It was not based on skill level, it was based on pure luck – any player who won 10 games in a row would be on the top of the leaderboards.

Nope.

The old system was great besides one thing:

New accounts would have MMR that would fluctuate to much during the first 10ish games. So only extremely new accounts would get this effect that u mentioned; where a few lucky wins (due to 4v5s for example) would propel them to top leaderboard ranks.

Older accounts needed to play and win a lot vs top 200 oppponents to even get from top 100 to top 10. Iirc i would gain/lose 10-15ish ranks on average while in the top 100. The lower the team average the higher the risk and the lower the reward ofc.

Tarmaril.5792:

Btw: You need to crossover the names in the upper left corner as well We can still see the name of the afk-dude (warrior)

Ooh its that guy. He is known afker.

Dont waste your time. Arenanet is poor and isnt willing to spend resources on ppl that ruin the community.

You either quit the game….or ignore it.

Hvaran.6327:

it’s true. that’s gw2 for you. hope that new dishnour system will work better.

they said that if you go out of game more then 3 times it puts dishonor on you and you can’t queue ranked or so

Yes but if you troll and stay in games it whont get you banned. Trust me, ive seen it happen far to often. Plenty of guys that deliberately troll and afk from the getgo. There was a guy that joined games naked and just jumped around …. he hasnt been punished and did it daily for a month straight.

Saiyan.1704:

It is an MMR system, it’s ran by Glicko2.
You’re wanting high win rate = skill level and that does not equate to skill. That’s only if it’s a premade team vs a premade team – it doesn’t help the solo, duo, trio queue players at all where winrate is always around 50%.

The old system had huge issues with it…. I don’t want to go back.

NO higher win ratio shouldnt equal higher leaderboardrank/MMR. I never said that… Gaining/losing MMR should be based on who u lose or win against.

Soloq should be seperated from teamq anyway…

And dont come with the “the community isnt big enough to support that” arguement. It was big enough before december 2014 and according to a a post a few days ago from Anet the size of the community is bigger than ever.

What issues?

Pre december patch queueing solo would mean ud face other soloq players.

Pre december patch queueing as higher rated player meant you would face ppl at the top of the ladder 90% of the time. Which meant you would know a big percentage of the players youd face. The games where actually fun back then….and not as absurdly frustrating as they are now at times. Its barely playable atm…

No duo/trio or quadruple capping empty points.
No truckloads of ppl rushing bosses early.
Not seeing 3-4 teammates chasing 1 single thief.
Ppl dodging (lol).
Not seeing teammates die in 3v1s.
Etc etc

Exactly insomnia. That feeling of being stuck in a 1v3 since your teammates chase that random thief or w/e across the map.

The annoying thing is that it happens almost every game during certain stretches.

Celtus.8456:

So many team chats turn into flaming, even when people seem to think they are calling good strategies. There tend to be issues with: people making calls in /team when they have no idea what they’re talking about, people not complying with team strategies, random bouts of anger that lead to flame-fests and distract players from the game. And the fact that conditions in spvp change so quickly that a call made in chat may no longer be accurate or appropriate by the time it is acted upon.

It would be nice to have friendly chats in team that also lead to winning, but I think it rarely happens.

Exactly.

In all honesty; i ignore chat most of the time. The vast majority of players have no idea what theyre doing and the communication tends to be either flaming or total BS.

The problem is that youre overcomplicating things Evan.

You created an MMR system with 20 variables while only 2 or 3 are needed.

Youre like the guy that tries to act like a really smart guy while hooking up with girls… but who ends up going home alone at the end of the night since he made himself look like a major kittenhead.

Stop being arrogant and trying to reinvent the wheel. All we need is a simple and transparent MMR system similar to what for example world of warcraft has. AND split team and soloq.

Balance hasnt improved that much since release. I dont understand where people get the idea of balance patches being a good thing. The only thing that tends to happen is a balance shift from class A to class B.

We still have the same skillless passives tho that have a huge impact. We still have a huge difference in skillfloor/ceiling between classes.

Stop sticking your heads in the sand; the balance improving drastically is as likely as GW2 being succesfull as esports game. No f in chance.

Locuz.2651:

Its not about what system you create to do it, but why you create it in the first place.

Why do you have an MMR system? To place similar minded / skilled and experienced players in the same games.

Does the current system do that right now? No it doesnt. It focusses on keeping the queue nice and short which means everyone plays with everyone.

Tournament champions play with guys who dont weapon swap or guys who have never set foot in pvp before that day.

Evan you need to look at it from another perspective. Its not about what system you create to do it, but why you create it in the first place.

The main reason is to avoid a conflict of interests between players. You basicly want similar minded people in the same games. If you dont you, have yourself a breading ground of negativity. A situation where new players get “dumped” in to the same game as game as tournament level players is never a good thing.

What we have now is a an everlasting loop that works something like this:

Programmer creates an MMR system that places everyone with everyone -> -> both veterans and new players get frustrated as … -> the community doesnt grow as much as it could -> programmer and developers decide that the MMR system should stay the same to avoid long queue times (since the community is allready quite small). Both veterans and new players get frustrated as … -> the community doesnt grow as much as it could -> etc etc

Instead u/they rely on non gameplay related tools to provide peaks in activiy. Like rewards for example, something that doesnt enhance the quality of the gameplay itself. This is and will always be a temporary thing that doesnt push the pvp in a direction where the popularity is above par.

You need to seperate new players from veterans. Even if that means longer queuetimes for now.

What it would take?

Management and developers with experience developing and managing a succesfull pvp game.

The pvp part of this game is at an all time low. All that is left is a bunch of grinders that are pvping to finish their daily quests. Twitch viewers are lower than pretty much every big MMO including TESO, FF , TERA etc

The pvp side of this game flopped hard. Whats the point of praising the crew or the captain of a sinking ship?

We gave enough valid points of advice. But nothing was done with it….or not enough at least.

Lets be honest, the pvp in this game flopped really hard. And they see it like that aswell. Whatever happens in the future is just to stop the bleeding a bit untill the pvp side pretty much dies.

They lack talent that knows how to create a healthy pvp community/structure. The only way to fix this is too hire ppl with quality experience in pvp development. … And this will never happen since they whont get funds to hire anyone like that.

I think the same applies to everyone…..and its all due to the horrible matchmaking. Placing all types of players in the same games creates a toxic atmosphere.

Anet just lacks devs with experience creating a quality pvp infrastructure.

Rejerh.1784:

Seriously… what is Anet doing about this…
Pretty much every other game now has either an afk or rage quit… this got to stop!

Nothing will be done about it….you either accept it or leave

naphack.9346:

I still don’t get why people want yolo queue back. It was horrible.
Sure, feeling like a god was fun for some time, but honestly, yolo queue generally came down to which team had the best player, as nobody even WANTED to cooperate and everyone just brawled off-point. It was just that bad.

If you where top 500ish you would get in to quite some quality games at peak hours. Most games you wouyld know pretty much everyone. The top players played non stop, and played soloq when their teams wherent playing.

In the current system those players arent playing at all if their teammates arent playing.

This has been said a lot allready. Anet doesnt agree.

Arenanet prefers the system where everyone gets matched with everyone.

With test they mean:

This is the system that will be used…..but the exact numbers need be tweaked a bit here and there. So dont expect any noticable difference between this test season and the real thing.

There is no real MMR in this game.

In fact we had some kind of MMR. But since the pvp community lost a lot of players they gave up on that idea. Well they basicl;y put everyone together if they lack players (which is pretty much at any give moment).

Last game i was playing with a greatsword soldiers warrior with 70 ach points, who was literally totally useless… he couldnt even touch anything and if he did his dmg was nullified by the regen of a medi guard….the guard was facetanking his dmg and nothing happened.

He never switched weapons the entire game….and it didnt seem that he was using abbilities either.

Thank you arenet for making this pvp so much fun for both the new players and the veterans!

Brb….need to attent my 2nd 4v5 game in 4 games…

Gildos.8460:

As to the comment about splits, It seemed like rotations was a better term to use in an article focused on new players.

How would it be better to use a term that means something totally different?

Very confusing for new players

Lets analyze your issue shall we?

You push far early as thief regardeless of your comp right?

To make a far push effective you need at least some sustain in mid. Since they have to survive a 3v4 for about a minute untill the home capper joins mid. If your team doesnt have enough sustain YOU are the main reason your team is losing.

aspirine.6852:

Rest of the game was mediocre tho. But so is GW2.

What made those dungeons so good compared to gw2, or gw1? I only tried wildstar for a short while and the whole pve part did not get me.

[/quote]

U tried the dungeons?

Comparing WS dungeons with GW2s is like comparing 3 star cuisine with catfood.