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Yeah, warriors are starting to appear way more often. The metagame seems to be undergoing a slight shift in some ways.
It’s been explained in this thread a few times how it’s bugged. Condition duration is supposed to surpass it, but it currently doesn’t.
The argument doesn’t really matter because it’s blatantly bugged. Bugs should be fixed.
Automated response is literally the only thing keeping this meta from being completely dominated by conditions. Leave it alone.
I don’t think so. But there’s a proper way to balance conditions and an improper way. This is definitely the latter because it has no interesting counterplay involved. It just makes someone immune.
That has nothing to do with this thread.
Your explanation of condition mechanics is wrong, as I explained earlier in this thread.
This always struck me as an obvious problem as well.
It’s an old developer post, so I’m not going to be able to find it.
The Berserker Stance description is just how condition duration is supposed to work in general. For example, if I use food that gives me 40 percent more condition duration and my opponent uses food that reduces conditions on him by 40 percent, my conditions will last at 100 percent on him. If it was multiplicative, my conditions would last about 84 percent.
Same deal with traits: If a warrior picks up Dogged March — which reduces snares and immobilize by 33 percent — and I have 40 percent condition duration, my snares and immobilize will last 107 percent duration on him.
Putting that in the context of this conversation, there’s no reason anything should change when a trait’s condition duration reduction goes from 33 percent to 100 percent. It should work just as the rest of the game does.
With that said, I would prefer the system work sort of how you described: Automated Response gives full immunity to conditions, lasts 8 seconds and has a 60-second inner cooldown. That way Berserker Stance can logically remain in its current incarnation, as it should if warriors are to remain viable.
Huh, it never occurred to me when reading the trait’s tool tip that the “100%” was referring to the base duration of the conditions, and that any duration investment would be regarded as “over 100%”. Kind of seems like wishful thinking honestly.
Like Zone said, all it needs is an internal CD and it will be fine.
That’s how the developers explicitly said it should work in patch notes and various posts. It’s not wishful thinking.
Here’s how the mechanic was explained in the June 25 patch notes: “Berserker’s Stance: Increased the recharge to 60 seconds. Reduced the duration to 4 seconds. This stance now reduces incoming condition duration by 100%, so only modified conditions can get through.”
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By you only. and only you have said that it’s bugged because it works against Cripple, immobilize and chill.
That’s not why it’s bugged. It’s bugged because condition duration doesn’t currently surpass Automated Response or Berserker Stance like it’s supposed to.
So the fact that necros can hard counter guards/mesmers/thieves/eles right now means balance is that bad then right? As it stands there are only 2 decent hard counters to this Condi spam meta. AR and a well played stunlock warrior
Necromancers don’t hard counter those classes, especially thieves and elementalists. They do soft counter guardians and mesmers, though.
More to the point, balance is bad, and necromancers are overpowered. But there’s a right way and a wrong way to go about fixing that balance; creating hard counters with no practical counterplay is the wrong way.
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How it’s bugged has already been explained in this thread a few times.
I mean on the leaderboard.
Most players consider this trait broken, even the high-rated engineers that use it. It’s just asymmetrical.
Anyway, this conversation is kind of useless since the trait is bugged and not working as intended. It obviously needs a fix.
I count them as crowd control. In fact, I consider immobilize to be the strongest crowd control in the game because of how long it typically lasts.
It doesn’t really matter what the game or wiki, which is based on player input, define as crowd control. Perception, especially from high-rated players like myself, matters much more in terms of balance and design.
I’m not a power necromancer.
The problem is actually that solo queue MMR works too well, which lets teams sync queue.
Still not working as intended.
Also, did someone try to link the wiki to dispute what I personally consider crowd controls? Really?
A few points:
Non-necromancer classes play condition builds.
Requiring a gear change for one build is nonsensical.
There’s a difference between a soft and hard counter. The former is good; the latter is horrible game design.
Either way, the bigger issue is the abilities aren’t working as ArenaNet intended.
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I consider fear, immobilize, chill, and cripple crowd control. That’s why I said “most” instead of “all” crowd control.
The rest of your post seemed to misunderstand basic game mechanics. It would be impossible and impractical to go above 100 percent condition duration for a myriad of reasons, most importantly because no condition in the game can actually last more than double its duration.
Here’s how it was explained in the patch notes, which shows that an extra 40 percent condition duration is supposed to be 140 percent condition duration: “Berserker’s Stance: Increased the recharge to 60 seconds. Reduced the duration to 4 seconds. This stance now reduces incoming condition duration by 100%, so only modified conditions can get through.”
But that’s not how it works. Both abilities just make the user or passive recipient immune to conditions. No conditions can go through, no matter the modifier.
I’m starting to think ArenaNet isn’t aware of this bug at all, considering so much of the playerbase is clearly misinformed about it.
This applies to Berserker Stance too, but to a much lesser extent because it’s on a lengthy cooldown and a limited duration.
Here’s how the mechanic was explained in the June 25 patch notes: “Berserker’s Stance: Increased the recharge to 60 seconds. Reduced the duration to 4 seconds. This stance now reduces incoming condition duration by 100%, so only modified conditions can get through.”
But neither ability is working how ArenaNet explicitly said they should work. Supposedly, because I have 40 percent condition duration, I should get some conditions on a target even if it has AR or BS up. Nope. Immune, immune, immune.
The biggest problem with AR isn’t even necessarily the bleeds, but the fact a target is immune to most the crowd control in the game while it’s on.
Seriously, how is a bug like this remaining in the game for months?
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Although I’m certain this will be fixed next week, it’s shocking no developer has replied to this concern. It’s a huge issue in the community and economy.
Makes sense, to be honest. They’re too slow with fixing basic problems, and there’s no reward structure.
It’s absolutely by design. You can use most instant abilities during a normal cast.
Asura have an unfair advantage, but you should probably get your eyes checked if you can’t tell what weapon an Asura is using.
I’m not sure what game you’re playing if you think melee is at an advantage anywhere lol
From my original post:
“(This isn’t a problem on most maps because the points don’t make it easy to move out of an opponent’s LOS, but it’s a problem on Skyhammer because of all the LOS problems it has.)
“This actually makes the map’s mechanics even more problematic because knockbacks usually require melee range and the cannon is almost always fired on points.”
In other words, it’s not a problem on most maps. It’s only a problem in this map because it has so many LOS issues.
There’s a sweet spot between too much and too little LOS. Going too far on either side of the spectrum favors melee or range. I’m simply arguing that the amount of LOS in Skyhammer makes it favor melee too much, and that should be kept in mind for future maps.
What makes Skyhammer so terrible isn’t that it’s possible to get knocked off. It isn’t even the overpowered cannon.
What makes the map so terrible is the actual map design. We don’t even have to go into its ridiculous abundance of the Z-axis. Instead, the problem is how easy it is to avoid someone’s line of sight (LOS).
It’s extremely easy as a melee range, particularly a guardian, to completely avoid anyone’s LOS with the map’s many columns while remaining on a point. This further punctuates one of conquest’s big flaws: fighting has to be done directly on points, which grants melee mechanics a slight advantage. (This isn’t a problem on most maps because the points don’t make it easy to move out of an opponent’s LOS, but it’s a problem on Skyhammer because of all the LOS problems it has.)
This actually makes the map’s mechanics even more problematic because knockbacks usually require melee range and the cannon is almost always fired on points.
None of this is too much of a problem in terms of Skyhammer because the map will never be in team arena or tournaments. But it’s worth noting for future maps because the amount of LOS is simply terrible.
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Isn’t the entire point of warriors right now in the metagame to counter spirit rangers, condition necromancers and engineers?
Until we’re looking at 50 matches or so, it’s largely luck. Getting really good or bad teammates for a few matches completely changes the picture.
I don’t see what’s wrong with using world vs. world for roaming, which is basically deathmatch, and structured PvP for conquest, which is theoretically way easier to balance.
All they really need to do to make the matchmaking fair is remove the elo rating from solo queue and the leaderboards and just make matches truly random. That way anyone could get matched with anyone. Right now what we have is like a team arena lite version.
That would be great as an unrated queue – if only we had the population to support that many different queues.
Perhaps they should remove the leaderboard from solo arena entirely and make it unrated and leave team arena as the only mode with leaderboards.
So that the people who don’t have teams suffer even more?
I think the correct way to fix everything is to have purely random pairing. Not this crap “oh let’s pair top players with one another and see what happens” nonsense. True randomness, which would also give a more accurate indicator of one’s actual skill level.
More randomness would be good.
It’s weird because what you’re describing was the exact problem with the WvW ladders before. Now they’re far more random and, in effect, meaningful.
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Any time somebody says that it’s the players’ fault for exploiting, I roll my eyes. I imagine ArenaNet developers actually do too. The whole point of game design is to encourage, explicitly or implicitly, players into the preferred behavior. So if people are able to exploit something, it’s because it was designed poorly.
Thanks for the feedback! In a few days with more responses I can make an updated chart that may change the results for necro v engineer. Anybody else have thoughts on this matchup?
Let me elaborate a bit since I was in a rush before: Engineers simply have way too little condition removal. Against a typical engineer with bombs, grenades and Elixir R, I can freely spam my attacks and fears and never worry about any of them getting dispelled. If the engineer’s trait converts some of the conditions into boons upon application, I can just Corrupt Boon.
Even when fighting an engineer with Automated Response, my leftover conditions can usually finish them off. If not, all I have to do is go into Death Shroud and Life Blast a few times to win.
I recognize that my class would probably suck again if it was in the state it was before the June patch, but I also recognize that it’s no longer fun. I go into most fights and mindlessly spam everything because if I don’t, chances are the necromancer(s) on the other team will spam and therefore do more damage. The only skill that really takes thought is Spectral Wall, and many necromancers don’t even bother taking it.
I take it back. The more I play this meta the more I hate it. Rangers are kittening op and so are necros. I am bored of spam wars. Spirit rangers are worse than necro and s/d thief. But all 3 suck balls and are dull and boring.
Yup. I’m beginning to think necromancer should lose Dhuumfire entirely and maybe even torment. I just want the class to be skillful again. These measured nerfs clearly aren’t working.
Good concept.
One correction: Necromancers shouldn’t ever lose to engineers.
That’s beside the point. Because necromancers are overpowered, they rise to the top of the ladder. Because they rise to the top of the ladder, most top 100 matches are filled with necromancers.
It’s bad from both a fun standpoint and as far as balance goes. Both of those issues are hugely detrimental to the game.
Yeah, it’s possible. You have to get a little lucky with teammates, but good players will statistically move up. If you find yourself at a low rating after more than 10 games, chances are you deserve to be there.
Still, the fun factor isn’t really there because of sync queueing and blatant imbalances.
Problems with the current implementation of solo queue:
It emphasizes imbalances. Each solo queue match, at least at top ratings, is at least 60 percent necromancers. (I don’t know how I would deal with this besides nerfing my own class.)
Sync queueing is way too easy. In fact, it’s so easy it’s passive. I can grab anyone in the top 100 and tell him to queue around the same time as me, and I guarantee we’ll land in the same game.
Team arenas now have such ridiculous queues that they basically don’t exist. On top of that, duo, trio and quad queueing are no longer viable.
Solo queue is a good addition in theory, but it’s actually made structured PvP way worse with its current implementation.
It’s a shame because the game is moving in a great direction in PvE and WvW, but structured PvP seems to be getting worse. If they reverted to the patch before necromancers were buffed, Skyhammer, the flawed solo queue system and the condition metagame wouldn’t exist. Wouldn’t most competitive players prefer that?
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No one cares about hotjoin.
Now that the leaderboards have settled, it’s safe to declare solo queue a failure. It’s extremely easy to get matched up with friends.
I am actually positive it is. After that it is spirit ranger
based on my matches in soloque, spvp and the couple time i watched pax i dont see that many necros. They are therebut but never the most in any match ive been in.
At top 100 solo queue, each game is at least 60 percent necromancers.
I think we still need some nerfs. We still do too much damage, especially when considering how much control we have. At the very least, our condition diversity needs to be toned down.
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I’ve sort of given up on the skill lag issue. They’ve been “working on it” for a year with little to show for it. The optimizations listed in patch notes a few months ago did nothing, and effect LOD nearly ruined the game with culling again.
The developers responded to this issue and condition builds doing damage to objects within one month of launch. Since then, they’ve paid the issues some slight lip service with no progress to show for it.
I actually died to a few AOEs from mobs I couldn’t see yesterday. :/
As a necromancer who initially complained, I now think the encounter is fine. Most people just aren’t willing to admit they’re not good at the game, so they immediately blame “luck” and “bad design.”
Still, it’s pretty obvious the encounter and achievement weren’t tested with a necromancer. It’s the one class that has a disproportionate disadvantage.
Also, red circles need to be made much more visible across the board.
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Have you played today? Patch notes say a fixer patch went out last night to fix this bug. However I have been unable to play since that patch went live.
I have. It was still buggy for me.
But even if turning it off was possible, the problem is that this is a fix no one asked for. People wanted to reduce, not completely eliminate, spell effects.
When players were complaining about the over-the-top spell effects in Guild Wars 2, we were asking for a slider that lets us reduce the level of particle effects. We were not asking for you to implement some crappy system that makes some effects completely vanish.
World vs. world zerg fights are currently unplayable. Many dynamic events are worse. Even in structured PvP, effects sometimes don’t pop up.
Also, this happens even if you turn off the “Effect LOD” option in the graphics menu.
The net effect of this patch is culling is actually worse because, at least in PvE, it now applies to spell effects on top of mobs and players. In world vs. world and PvP, it only applies to spell effects, but that’s still pretty bad.
Considering ArenaNet has removed the map in real arenas, I don’t think it’s a learn-to-play issue.
I think people generally exaggerate how imbalanced the game is. Every class has a viable role except maybe mesmer, which is countered way too hard by sword/dagger thieves and conditions. Most of the time people are blaming the game when they should be blaming themselves.
If any tweaks need to be made, spirit rangers should be brought down — mostly because they’re really cheesy — and warriors, mesmers and elementalists need to be brought slightly up.