Guild Wars 2

Replies in bold:

Orpheal.8263:

P1:
I understood fully well, what you (or others) proposed.
You just proposed to turn GW2 into a GW1 clone, that this game should have basically the same system.

Seems like you didn’t understand what I proposed at all.

But this doesn’t work out so easy with a game anymore, which is in nearly 9 months 3 years old.

It’s also not nearly as difficult as you think it is. And the age of the game doesn’t matter. Guild Wars 2 being 2,5 years old (not 3 years and 9 months, get your facts straight) didn’t stop Anet from completely revamping the leveling experience with the NPE or the dailies with the latest patch.

People seem to think here, that changing a leveling system for a already 2 year old game, whose whole game design was from begin on based on this Level Cap is one of the most easiest things for Anet. Thats WRONG.
You ask Anet basically here to completely revamp the WHOLE GAME. Get real.
What you propose here is absolutely not worth all the time, ressources and massive effort, which would be alot better spent in many other areas of this game, which need alot more improvement and were neglected so far since game release

That’s not true at all. Anet ALREADY revamped the leveling system, all we’re asking is to revamp it just a little more. It’s not as much work or as difficult as you think it is, trust me.

- Redesign of the Trait System, which is the real reason, why many people dislike the changes from the NPE, not the Leveling Rewards and that fighting has finally become more challening due to enemies of your same level finally not dieing anymore like flies so easily, so that people have a little incentive to play more together, because when you play in a group, also as a Low Level Player, you get easily doen everythign in this game in the Starter Areas until you reach the said Levels where you become stronger to the point, that you can easily solo everything. Don’t forgetGW2 is a MMO, not a Solo Player Console RPG what many people seem to think like, when I read how easy many people want GW2 to see to become!!!

Speak for yourself. The redesign of the trait system is NOT the reason why I dislike the NPE. I dislike the new trait system as much as the next person, but what I really dislike about the NPE is how 90% of the game is hidden or locked during the first +/- 8 hours of the game (until you reach lvl 31) and the arbitrary confusing stat-gain thresholds. It just doesn’t make any sense.

You all see currently only what you want to see, a small piece of a puzzle, but not the whole picture.

That’s not even remotely true.
Just because we talk about 1 issue here or suggest fixes/changes to 1 part of the game doesn’t mean we’re blind to the other parts of the game. I want precursor crafting or new dungeons as much as the next person, but right now we’ve got to deal with this horrible mess called the NPE and the ridiculous “features” that it introduced. We’re trying to come up with solutions to the new issues introduced with the NPE and we try to think of solutions that follows Anet vision but at the same time makes the (veteran) players happy again.

So what’s a forum specialist?

Ascended Salvage Kit, 25 uses, 800 gems for 1 kit or 3800 gems for 5! Now in the gemstore!

^
That’s a joke, please don’t actually do this Anet…

ProtoGunner.4953:

Beldin.5498:

But .. but .. there is all this endgame that we don’t have .. you know you can raid, and
then you can raid even more .. and after that .. what a about some raiding ?
Oh .. and don’t forget .. there is raiding !!

Well, but at least there is something to do after you hit level cap :-)

There is new challenging bosses every now and then. Look at GW2: we are killing the same couple of bosses in 5man instances since 2.5 years. It’s embarassing…

Same world-bosses too, with the only new additions being a revamped Tequatl and Triple Trouble.

If you think about it, Anet really released a pathetic amount of new content over the span of 2,5 years. Any other MMO would have had its first expansion-like update by now. I could understand the lack of new content if GW2 was doing poorly, but afaik it’s not. So why is Anet not pushing out more new content? At this rate a lot of players will lose interest and stop playing GW2 (for good), myself included. Doing the same stuff over and over again for 2,5 years is starting to get stale and boring…

Blaeys.3102:

In WoW, the model is centered around what is new – content becomes obsolete (even max level content) really quickly. The devs have to work hard to stay ahead of that curve.

That’s sort-of true but not entirely. With recent changes (since Cata and later) Blizzard is trying hard to make older content relevant again, either by updating said content or by adding new game modes.

For example I really like what Blizzard with with Onyxia’s Lair, a raid dungeon from vanilla WoW that became super relevant again with the 5th birthday patch of WoW.

I heard Blizzard did something similar with Molten Core with the coming of WoD but I wouldn’t know since I haven’t played WoW for a while now.

laokoko.7403:

I don’t really like legendaries, I think the effect is way over the top.

There is no such thing as over the top effects. More particle effects are always welcome.

Personally I really like the painterly effect of the Sunrise and Twilight. The painterly trail they leave when you swing them, it looks really nice. Therefor they are among my favorite legendaries.

But what I don’t like about Twilight and Sunrise is the grip on either of them. The grip looks like it’s made out of bone. It’s so out of place, especially on the Sunrise. Why couldn’t Sunrise and Twilight have a normal metallic grip wrapped in leather? That would have been so much cooler.

I don’t much care for Eternity though. The shining crystal at the pommel looks out of place to me, especially during the day when Eternity looks like Sunrise.
Eternity could have been really awesome, but instead Anet chose to make it look like a slightly more fancy version of Twilight/Sunrise. Such a let down.

Vayne.8563:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Does it though? Does it really help new players? If it even confuses veteran players like me and make it harder for us then how the heck is this supposed to help new players?

I don’t know many new players, but I know one, and I know he is super confused with the NPE. He just couldn’t understand how/why he had so much trouble defeating a lvl 9 bandit as a level 9 guardian. He started blaming himself. I told him it wasn’t his fault and I told him about the “thresholds” and that at lvl 9 you’re really just lvl 4. Then he was even more confused.

I would really like to hear input from other new players who started playing after the NPE. I don’t think the NPE achieved what Anet hoped it would achieve.

Well I know some people that tried the game before the NPE, tried it after, and found it much easier to figure out the second time. But I also know some people that found it confusing.

The thing was, originally, there was no real guidance of where to go and what to do. The NPE also includes that nifty arrow, and that helps lots of people. Some people really do want to just follow an arrow around it seems.

No real guidance? Are you kidding me?

So scouts and hints and mail notifications about new content you unlocked isn’t real guidance? LOL okay….

I’m by no means an MMO expert (I only really played 2 MMOs, WoW and GW2) yet I thought vanilla GW2 already had too much hand-holding at the start of the game. It most certainly didn’t need even more hand-holding (though the new compass is nice, I’ll give you that).

Besides, you forget to address my biggest complaint, the arbitrary “stat thresholds” and needlessly hiding class mechanics until I reach a certain level. How is this supposed to help anyone?

Favorite legendaries:

Sunrise
Predator
Twilight

Disappointing legendaries:

All the others, most specifically the “troll legendaries” such as The Dreamer and Quip.

What is this? What are forum specialists supposed to be and who are they?

Vayne.8563:

if it helps some new people so be it.

Does it though? Does it really help new players? If it even confuses veteran players like me and make it harder for us then how the heck is this supposed to help new players?

I don’t know many new players, but I know one, and I know he is super confused with the NPE. He just couldn’t understand how/why he had so much trouble defeating a lvl 9 bandit as a level 9 guardian. He started blaming himself. I told him it wasn’t his fault and I told him about the “thresholds” and that at lvl 9 you’re really just lvl 4. Then he was even more confused.

I would really like to hear input from other new players who started playing after the NPE. I don’t think the NPE achieved what Anet hoped it would achieve.

“WoW’s failure”

Vayne.8563:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Well i died today on my level 9 guardian to two or 3 scale monsters. How is that related to NPE? Well, maybe if I had my virtue of resolve (passive regen), first slot skill (sword of justice for example) and most of all my downed skills fully unlocked it would go differently.

But no, game wants to make this easier on me, but taking away my ability to properly defend myself at earlier levels when i screw up with my first 4 skills (cause 5th is still locked at lvl 9).

How is this better then the old system that gave me freedom far earlier and let me battle with with all my downed skills available from the start? You figure it out, i’m writing this off as abomination of a change that should be removed a.s.a.p.

You’re right. Anet really didn’t think this through. Right now you should always stick to content that’s at least 4 levels below your current level or else it will be much harder.

Before the NPE I could easily finish the starter map (for example Queensdale) on a new character without much trouble. I would usually fight against mobs 1 or 2 levels higher than me but that wasn’t an issue, it was doable. Then at the end of Queensdale I’d be roughly lvl 13, that’s 2 levels below the recommended level for Kessex Hills but again, no biggie, with proper gear, weapon swap and all my class abilities available I could easily handle it.

Now, after the NPE, I struggle going through the content designed for my own level. I can no longer do Queensdale in 1 sitting because right now I can barely kill enemies my own level, nevermind enemies 2 or 3 levels above me. I’m forced to do bits and pieces of the other starter maps to level up more quickly and then stick to content that is below a few levels my character level until I reach lvl 31. Only after lvl 31 does this problem somewhat go away, but the first 30 levels are a pain in the butt to go through now. lvl 1 to 15 are the worst.

I’ve yet to struggle through any content with an NPE profession of any class. I mean people have been complaining for ages that the game is too easy in the open world. Add a modicum of challenge (and that’s all it is) and suddenly people are up in arms.

I’ve leveled 4 characters after the NPE, including a mesmer and necro and had very few problems with any of them. At times it might have seems a bit more challenging, but only a bit…and I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.

I do dungeon/factals speedruns on a daily basis and I know Arah like the back of my hand. I’m more than familiar with the mechanics of this game and the most difficult PvE content of this game. I’m not a newbie nor am I incompetent by any means.

I agree that GW2 is too easy. But does making the early game content frustratingly limited by removing 90% of all the mechanics from the early game fix that?

I’m all for more difficult content or increasing the difficulty of the game, but not in the (unintentional?) way Anet chose with the NPE. Taking away previously available mechanics and redistributing stat gains to arbitrary and confusing “thresholds” is not challenging or fun in way, it’s simply frustrating and confusing both new and veteran players.

What’s next? Taking away our number 6 heal skill until you reach a certain level? How about removing the dodging mechanic ’til you reach a certain level? Would you support that? Would that make the game more challenging in a fun way?

Placing buy orders costs nothing. Simply place new buy orders 1 copper higher than those who outbid you. Problem solved.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Well i died today on my level 9 guardian to two or 3 scale monsters. How is that related to NPE? Well, maybe if I had my virtue of resolve (passive regen), first slot skill (sword of justice for example) and most of all my downed skills fully unlocked it would go differently.

But no, game wants to make this easier on me, but taking away my ability to properly defend myself at earlier levels when i screw up with my first 4 skills (cause 5th is still locked at lvl 9).

How is this better then the old system that gave me freedom far earlier and let me battle with with all my downed skills available from the start? You figure it out, i’m writing this off as abomination of a change that should be removed a.s.a.p.

You’re right. Anet really didn’t think this through. Right now you should always stick to content that’s at least 4 levels below your current level or else it will be much harder.

Before the NPE I could easily finish the starter map (for example Queensdale) on a new character without much trouble. I would usually fight against mobs 1 or 2 levels higher than me but that wasn’t an issue, it was doable. Then at the end of Queensdale I’d be roughly lvl 13, that’s 2 levels below the recommended level for Kessex Hills but again, no biggie, with proper gear, weapon swap and all my class abilities available I could easily handle it.

Now, after the NPE, I struggle going through the content designed for my own level. I can no longer do Queensdale in 1 sitting because right now I can barely kill enemies my own level, nevermind enemies 2 or 3 levels above me. I’m forced to do bits and pieces of the other starter maps to level up more quickly and then stick to content that is below a few levels my character level until I reach lvl 31. Only after lvl 31 does this problem somewhat go away, but the first 30 levels are a pain in the butt to go through now. lvl 1 to 15 are the worst.

Orpheal not sure if you directed your reply to me, but I don’t think you understand what I (or others) proposed.

I would be the first to agree that GW2 is already the easiest and most casual MMO out there. I really wasn’t saying that GW2 should become easier and I don’t think the OP was saying that either. If anything I think Anet should make GW2 harder and more difficult.

However, leveling-up seems to be such a shoe-horned mechanic that developers put in their (MMO)RPGs simply because they think they should. Most devs don’t even think about it. They just automatically go by the logic that RPGs should have a leveling system. Why?

You ask us to think outside of the box, but I don’t think it means what you think it means. If anything YOU should think outside of the box and ask yourself if a leveling system is really necessary and if it really makes the game more challenging and rewarding.

Wanting a lower level-cap (what I suggested) or no leveling at all doesn’t mean we want the game to be easier. Having a higher level cap (80 instead of 20) =/= a higher challenge.

You also claim that we’re making suggestions about things we don’t understand. I actually studied Game Architecture & Design and I worked as a game-designer and artist myself. I’m pretty sure I have a good understanding of what I’m talking about.

As a designer you constantly have to ask yourself what certain features or mechanics will really add to your game, whether it’s truly needed and if it’s possible to do it in a different (better) way.

Why do we need leveling in (MMO)RPGs? Do we really? And why does the cap have to be at level 80? Why that number? Does having a higher level cap really add something significant to the game? What about a lower level cap but with more effort required to level up? For example instead of gaining 1 level every 30 minutes, you’ll gain 1 level every 3 hours? Will that be better? Will it be worse? Or will the game stay virtually the same except with different arbitrary numbers?

These are all questions that – when asked and answered – will lead to better design decisions.

One thing is for sure, the NPE broke more than it fixed and it made things more contrived and complex than needed. With the NPE, Anet tried to address certain “issues” that they feel needed to be addressed. One of the “issues” they wanted to “fix” is to make leveling-up more rewarding and give players bigger stat-boosts at certain thresholds instead of gradual stat-boosts for every level. That’s okay, that’s good. But I don’t think their “solution” with the NPE is the best solution. The new distribution of stat-boosts introduced some (big) balance issues in PvE. Those issues need to be fixed.

I think what the NPE changed could be a step in the right direction and Anet can still achieve their vision of a more rewarding leveling-experience, but to achieve that the idea should be taken a step further. As it stands now, all the levels between each thresholds are pointless, meaningless and literally don’t add anything. You grow stronger when you reach lvl 10, but lvl 5, 6, 7 and 9 are meaningless and don’t make you grow stronger. They add nothing. So why not get rid of all the inbetween levels and just stick with the thresholds? Why not reduce the leveling system to a lvl 1-to-15 scale? Then you can make monsters of the same levels? That would fix the balance issues that the NPE introduced and make leveling-up a lot less confusing for new players.

I mean really, the leveling system we have now is actually MORE confusing for new players than the leveling system we had before. A friend of mine who just recently started playing this game didn’t understand why he as a lvl 9 character had so much trouble killing a lvl 9 monster. When I explained to him that he’s technically still lvl 4 and won’t grow stronger until he’s lvl 10 and that’s why the lvl 9 monster is so much stronger than him, he simply stared at me all confused and asked me: “Wait… what? Why?”

I was thinking about how after the NPE patch we get (most) stat-boosts and unlocks at steps of 6 levels, 14 steps in total. Which made me think that after the NPE Anet could easily revamp the level system to be a lvl 1-to-15 system instead of 1-to-80.

Right now there really is no reason for there to be more than 15 levels and with the NPE it actually became more confusing because you don’t actually gain anything when you level up until you reach lvl 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, 70, 76 or 80.

So why not change that to lvl 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, make level 15 the new cap and then make gaining a level go a little slower? Make the leveling-up experience more similar to GW1 but with only 15 levels instead of 20. Wouldn’t that make more sense than the leveling-system we have now after the NPE?

I was thinking about how after the NPE patch we get (most) stat-boosts and unlocks at steps of 6 levels, 14 steps in total. Which made me think that after the NPE Anet could easily revamp the level system to be a lvl 1-to-15 system instead of 1-to-80.
Right now there really is no reason for there to be more than 15 levels and with the NPE it actually became more confusing because you don’t actually gain anything when you level up until you reach lvl 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, 70, 76 or 80.

So why not change that to lvl 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, make level 15 the new cap and then make gaining a level go a little slower? Make the leveling-up experience more similar to GW1 but with only 15 levels instead of 20. Wouldn’t that make more sense than the leveling-system we have now after the NPE?

I think it’s great that the head gear of outfits is hideable just like regular armor head gear. But why can’t we hide the shoulders and/or gloves of outfits who have those? It should be relatively easy to implement this option and it would probably make a lot of players really happy.

For example I love the Ceremonial Plated Armor outfit but I don’t like the helmet and shoulder pads at all. Luckily I can hide the helmet, but I can’t hide the shoulders. Same goes for the Shadow Assassin outfit on human/norn males. The shoulders on the male version of the Shadow Assassin outfit really breaks the outfit for me. It would be great if I could hide them.

Ofcourse I agree that there are more important things for the devs to do than adding features that the game technically doesn’t need (such as fixing bugs and adding new playable content).

That being said, the devs who work on bug fixes and adding new playable content aren’t the same devs who add new outfits, gem store items and fun items. So saying “GW2 doesn’t need mounts but there are other things GW2 needs so Anet should focus on that” is not really a good counter argument against mounts either. While I get where you’re coming from and I agree, it’s just not how game development works. Different teams are responsible for different parts of the games and it’s entirely possible for Anet to add new gem store stuff without hindering or delaying bug fixes or other more important things.

More and more do I see people using the same old non-arguments to shoot down requests or ideas from players whenever they suggest a certain feature to be added to GW2. The most common 2 non-arguments are:

“This isn’t WoW.”

or “GW2 doesn’t need that.”

One doesn’t have to look far on the forums to see these arguments contently pop up when people (for example) talk about mounts and request (more) mounts to be added to GW2. Certain people always jump those players with those same 2 non-arguments: “this isn’t WoW” and “GW2 doesn’t need mounts”.

We all know GW2 isn’t WoW. I don’t see the point in stating the obvious. That doesn’t mean we can’t request features that might perhaps be in WoW or other games. Games take ideas from other games all the time. Anet already took ideas and features from WoW and implemented those in GW2 and vice-versa. There is no reason why people shouldn’t request features that are present in other games and there is no reason to shoot these requests down with non-arguments like "this isn’t WoW’.

We all know that GW2 doesn’t specifically need mounts or other features that are often requested. However saying “GW2 doesn’t need that” is a horrible meaningless argument as well because technically GW2 doesn’t need anything aside from the core-mechanics and core-gameplay. GW2 doesn’t need mini-pets. GW2 doesn’t need legendaries. GW2 doesn’t need more outfits and GW2 most certainly doesn’t need a daily achievement overhaul. Yet GW2 has all that.
Just because GW2 doesn’t need a certain feature doesn’t mean the game won’t be better or more fun with it. GW2 doesn’t need mounts but it already has them (the broom and the carpet) and I’m sure the game would be more fun with more and cooler mounts added.

This isn’t another “please give us mounts” thread, I’m just using mounts as an example because it’s the most often requested feature that I see on the forum and it’s most often shot down with non-arguments like “this isn’t WoW” and “GW2 doesn’t need mounts”.

Please, next time a request thread comes up, please skip these non-arguments and get straight to the real arguments why a requested feature should or shouldn’t be added to GW2.

Thank you and merry Christmas.

GW2 still has somewhat of a trinity going on. You still need support and crowd-control skills to run though dungeons effectively. And some classes are better at it than others.

For example, many newbies don’t know this, but even in a full-zerker meta build with stacking and skipping, the guardian is the backbone of the party. He is the one carrying you through the dungeon. Going full-zerker DPS will only work really well if you have a guardian in your party with support abilities who knows what he’s doing.

When newbies run a zerker-meta dungeon and the party wipes, the newbies often blame it on the supposed lack of DPS or something else. They don’t realize that they wiped because the guardian wasn’t doing his job at keeping the party alive.

The role of a guardian in GW2 PvE is no different than the role of a paladin in WoW. Both are support/healing classes, but both do their job in an entirely different way.

The GW2 meta is not just about DPS DPS DPS, it’s about knowing the role of your class and doing your job right while also trying to do as much DPS as possible. Your role in the party is going to be more important than your DPS.

For example: a warrior often sacrifices DPS to gain more offensive party support (the Phalanx Strength trait). Warriors will often have the lowest DPS, but in turn they will give a lot of might to the party, therefor increasing the DPS of the party as a whole (also with their banners of course).

For example: a guardian often sacrifices DPS to gain more defensive party support to keep the party alive through damage mitigation, condi-cleanses and reflects.

For example: an elementalist sometimes sacrifices DPS to gain more crowd control abilities.

Etc. etc. etc.

Knowing your class and your role in the party comes first, DPS comes second.

Ohoni.6057:

I would be fine with them adding a “hard mode,” but ONLY if there is no additional rewards attached to it. There can be zero-point achievements, and there can be titles attached to hard mode completions, but there should not be any bonus MF, any unique drops, any reward unlocks, or unique reward tracks. You should receive no better or additional loot for playing content on hard mode than you would on default.

If you wouldn’t want hard mode without having bonus candy for playing it, then there should not be a hard mode, full stop.

No, no, no. This mentality of yours is the reason why GW2 and other games are going downhill. I’m sick and tired of people who basically want to get maximum rewards for minimal effort. People who take the path of least resistance yet expect to get the same rewards as the people who are willing to put more effort into something.

If I play something on hard-mode, I expect to get rewarded accordingly. Either I want to get extra gold, or extra experience points, or extra AP or better loot. Otherwise there would be no point to playing hard mode. For example: Why take 2 hours to complete a hard-mode dungeon if you can get the same reward by completing the dungeon on easy-mode which will take you only 20 min?

If GW2 is going to get hard-mode, then it should indeed be significantly harder, so hard in fact that getting wiped will be more common than making it through alive. In return the awards you get should be unique to hard-more (for example unique skins), or significantly better than playing the game on easy-mode (for example a lot more exotic and precursor drops).

kuittaa.7360:

I predict that holiday content for 2015 will be recycled from 2012-2014.

Only new item will be A Glorious Box, which contains Magnificent Bag, which once opened gives Gilded Purse, and inside of it players will get three Silvery Chests and three Ivory Chests. These can be opened. Inside will be 1-3 Pouches of the Festival, and 1-3 Sacks of the Festival. These containers hold an extremely rare Ascended Cache of Ascended Materials, and more common Fine Cache of Fine Materials. Once opened, players can choose which Coffer of Ascended Material to have, and which Coffer of Fine Materials to have. Once chosen, players can double-click the Bundles of Ascended/Fine Materials, and receive 1-5 pieces of chosen items. Fun, exciting and extremely rewarding!

This would actually be funny if it wasn’t so true…

Why Anet do you do this? ;_;

Behellagh.1468:

It’ll never happen. Since you can leave for years and return, they wouldn’t want to do anything that would discourage a returning player to leave, like forcing them to rename their characters.

I suggest you become more creative in your naming because if you are running into a problem naming, it’s because you aren’t unique in going for the low hanging fruit of punny names or anime/TV/movie/book character “homage”. There are way too many Drizzts in too many fantasy MMOs already. Try harder.

^
This. +1

I’m not gonna lie, most of my toons are named after existing characters, but that’s because I’m uncreative with naming. Luckily I have a very unorthodox taste in games, music and books so most of my toons are named after lesser-known characters from lesser-known IPs such as my guardian named Sebastian Lacroix, named after Sebastian Lacroix from the RPG named Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines.

Or, you know, you could use a staff as a 2nd weapon while using a greatsword as your main offensive weapon, you know, like most sensible guardians do.

There is nothing wrong with staff and it can greatly increase the DPS of the group but the main DPS will have to come from another weapon set (greatsword or sword/focus).

Beldin.5498:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Beldin.5498:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lordkrall.7241:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected.

Every single game ever released have a diminishing user base from the moment it is released.

Orly?

I would say its more like “every hyped MMO” .. and hyping new MMOs started
more or less after the success of WoW.

Else … Server merges say nothing in a game where servernames in the end doesn’t
mean more than just grouping players for WvW.

WoW itself got hyped plenty before it got released.

Every MMO has its peak and after reaching that peak the userbase will start to dwindle until it settles at a certain level, IF it settles at a certain level. It is therefor to be expected that at one point servers need to be merged. However that usually happens after 1 or more years after release. Merging servers after 6 months is not a good sign.

Now I wouldn’t say that GW2 in China is dying, a dying MMO usually losers players a lot faster (around the 3 month mark) but GW2 is not doing really well in China either. I think Anet/NCSoft will have to settle with a small niche position in China. That’s the most GW2 in China will be.

Without knowing numbers in China, it still can just mean that the chinese players
simply don’t like WvW.
Without WvW we could merge ALL servers into one in the end because Megaserver
is in the end one single server for all, no matter how many players we have.

It’s not that simple. 1 mega server wouldn’t work for multiple reasons, unless the player base is super small, then it might perhaps work. Anet would never merge ALL servers into one not even in the worst-case scenario.

Beldin.5498:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

lordkrall.7241:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected.

Every single game ever released have a diminishing user base from the moment it is released.

Orly?

I would say its more like “every hyped MMO” .. and hyping new MMOs started
more or less after the success of WoW.

Else … Server merges say nothing in a game where servernames in the end doesn’t
mean more than just grouping players for WvW.

WoW itself got hyped plenty before it got released.

Every MMO has its peak and after reaching that peak the userbase will start to dwindle until it settles at a certain level, IF it settles at a certain level. It is therefor to be expected that at one point servers need to be merged. However that usually happens after 1 or more years after release. Merging servers after 6 months is not a good sign.

Now I wouldn’t say that GW2 in China is dying, a dying MMO usually losers players a lot faster (around the 3 month mark) but GW2 is not doing really well in China either. I think Anet/NCSoft will have to settle with a small niche position in China. That’s the most GW2 in China will be.

lordkrall.7241:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected.

Every single game ever released have a diminishing user base from the moment it is released.

Orly?

hybrid.5027:

People complain about server mergers and/or megaservers like its a bad thing. Either they add too few servers at launch and there are insane queues or they add a ton of servers and 6 months later every server is dead except two. The best solution is obviously to have sufficient servers at launch with a planned consolidation later when concurrent userbase diminishes.

That is assuming a diminishing userbase is something normal and expected. It’s not. Not that fast at least. I mean GW2 has been out in China for how long now? 6 months or something?

The fact that GW2 survived the first 3 months in China is a good sign. It means GW2 isn’t a dying MMO like Wildstar Online is. But having to merge servers at the 6 months mark is not a good sign. That means GW2 preformed more poorly in China than Anet/NCSoft expected it to preform.

3rd thread I see touching this topic. I guess I’m not the only one who has an issue with the quantity versus quality balance in GW2. We get way too much worthless junk as loot, not just with Wintersday but with the game as a whole. But Wintersday really does take the crown. Opening 200+ gift boxes after playing a few Wintersday events really feels like a chore. Opening those boxes is something I really don’t look forward to at all. Does anyone else feel this way? I doubt that’s the experience Anet wanted us to have.

This is exactly what I was saying in one of my threads. The amount of clicking required to sort out your (mostly worthless) loot is ridiculous. I actually got RSI from all the clicking when I was dealing with the insane amount of junk that I got from just playing a few hours of Wintersday events.

The loot/reward system in GW2 really is like a casino gambling machine. A whole lot of flashy fancy bouncy stuff to make it seem like you get rewarded a lot but in reality you really get nothing worthwhile.

Anet please, less flashy bouncy stuff for a whole lot of nothing. Give us less quantity but more quality stuff please!

EotM = WvW = PvE

Everything that isn’t sPvP is PvE.

In my opinion you should just play how you want to play, people have no right to tell you otherwise. The only exception to that would be dungeons where you’re ought to run Berserker meta builds if the party you join asks you to do so.

If you play how you want outside of dungeons and people complain I’d just ignore them. You have every right to defend a tower or garrison in WvW or EotM if that’s what you want to do.

I understand the complaints though. When I need karma and I decide to do EotM for the karma train then ofcourse it’s annoying when people like you start defending stuff which basically hampers our karma train. But it is how it is an you are within your rights to play how you want to play. The karma train could ask you nicely to find a different map but they can’t demand you to do so. If you want to defend stuff in EotM then the karma train is just gonna have to deal with it.

The only reason why the karma train exists in the first place is because of Anet’s poor game design choices. If they’d give out an equal amount of karma for defending then this entire problem wouldn’t even exist.

I don’t mind the outfits at all I’m perfectly okay with how they are now.

But I would like to request for Anet make it possible to toggle the shoulder and glove parts of the outfits, just like the helmet can be turned on and off. You can toggle the gloves and shoulders of all the armors on/off so why not on the outfits?

Atlas Tsahalla.2456:

Well, the whole experience really. It’s Wintersday – presents and the meaning of Christmas and whatnot :/ I didn’t get any super weapons, but I do enjoy just receiving loot. I don’t have to have my mind blown in order to enjoy the loot I receive.

That’s cool that you enjoy receiving loot, but what’s the point in receiving loot when that loot literally has no value after a certain point (and that point is reached rather quickly and easily, especially with the content of the Wintersday Gift boxes). At that point loot just becomes an annoyance.

I like getting a lot of gifts, but not if 90% of those gifts contain worthless trash. If the choice is between getting a lot of trash or getting nothing at all, I choose getting nothing at all (e.g. I just sell the Wintersday Gifts). That experience, that’s probably not what Anet intended, or is it?

Atlas Tsahalla.2456:

And my mistake, I just thought since you were receiving so many gift boxes maybe you needed to take a break..?
Also, please forgive me: by playing incorrectly I simply mean: Don’t forget it’s a game. Along the same lines of playing too much; go enjoy it for what it is, then relax. But I understand you’re already doing this, so well done. One thing you could try, in this mmo-RPG, is Role Playing. It might help take your mind off loot, that way, when you’ve RPG’d your heart out, you can return to looting and it might mean more to you

I know it’s an RPG. Loot is a very important part of the RPG genre. It’s not something you can just choose to “not focus on”. No matter what you do in GW2, you’re going to receive (useless) loot in and it’s something you’re gonna have to deal with sooner or later (when your inventory is full).

It doesn’t matter how you play the game or how much you play the game, worthless loot = worthless loot. It’s never going to get more meaningful, only less meaningful once you progress further in the game.

Therefor I wish Anet would improve their loot system. Maybe take a good look at how other MMOs do the looting and try to take some ideas from those MMOs?

Andred.1087:

Sounds like there’s more problem with you than with the game. If you have an issue deleting excess bloodstone dust, that’s on you. If you’re not having fun, you’re wasting time playing at all, and that’s on you. It’s easy to find things you don’t like with the game if you’re trying to.

Did you even read my posts? I’m not complaining about GW2 as a whole, I’m complaining about only 1 certain aspect of the game (the loot). So your “advice” of me just stop playing GW2 doesn’t really apply here.

If there are more people like me, then it’s clearly not my problem, it’s Anet’s problem. If I am indeed the one of the few people who feels this way then it probably is my problem. But that’s why I made this topic, to put my thoughts on paper and see if other people feel the same way. If they do then maybe Anet can do something about it. It’s called discussion and giving constructive feedback.

If the options are either 1) me giving feedback on the forum 2) me stop playing GW2, I’m sure Anet will want me to choose option 1 and not option 2.

So please, stop saying “just stop playing the game” because it’s the dumbest advice I frequently see from fanboys on this forum.

Lukyromero.6780:

In fact, loot is only a factor of what makes gold for the player, the real source of wealth comes from being an experienced economist in the game while at the same time playing the game itself.

Yeah, that’s another problem that I have.

Most of my income comes from dungeon speed clears and TP flipping. The loot I get from simply playing the game adds almost nothing to my fortune. It’s just there to annoy me and give me RSI. What’s the fun in that?

laokoko.7403:

what rewards are you exactly looking for. You want Anet to throw 100 stacks of ascended zojja gear at you? Or thousands of skins which is already in the game?

Every single loot in the game is material for ascended armor or legendary weapon or upgrade component.

No, that’s not what I want. What I want is already described at the end of my OP.

And no, not every single loot in the game is material for ascended armor, legendary weapons or upgrade components. That’s not even remotely true.

America.9437:

It’s a psychological trick that casinos in Vegas use. You get a bunch of flashing lights and beeping sounds to trick your senses into thinking that you’re getting something when you pull that slot handle.

There’s a post on reddit about the absurdity of the current state of GW2 looting with respect to mouse clicks. You open a bouncy chest to get a container to open the container to get a bag to open the bag to get and item that you’ll either end up salvaging or selling.

Yeah, you’re right. It’s so bad that playing GW2 actually gave me RSI simply from dealing with the loot that I accumulated through just casually playing the game. I’m not even kidding.

And before people say “you probably play too much”. I play 3 hours a day on average. Is that really too much? I’ve played many MMOs in my life. Some of them I’ve played both more and longer than GW2 but none of them gave me RSI.

The RSI I got from GW2 is not even from doing long raids or defeating difficult bosses (GW2 doesn’t have any of that). No, I got RSI from the ridiculous loot system…

Atlas Tsahalla.2456:

Little long, read most…

I’ve gotta disagree.
I love the quality of loot I get. I’m a pretty casual player, but when I get loot it’s always pretty fulfilling.
And I sell my excess materials for a good chunk of change whenever I sell them. I’ve played for a few hours since the patch came out and did not receive ‘hundreds’ of Wintersday gifts. Not even close to that. But I also haven’t just done Wintersday activities. Think maybe you’re playing too much? Or incorrectly?

What exactly did you receive as loot that was actually useful and fulfilling to you? I’m curious, because all I got from my Wintersday Gifts are a ton of the same tonics (which most of them can’t be sold), a ton of the same toy weapon skins (I already had all those skins unlocked after opening merely +/- 50 gift boxes) and a ton of runes and sigils with absolutely horrible stats (you can buy better runes/sigils on the TP for just a handful of silver, so they’re really useless).

Am I playing too much? No, I’m not playing too much. I said I played for merely 2 hours in DR doing the Wintersday activities. Not that it matters.

Playing incorrectly? Because I get way more gift boxes than you? Euhm, what kind of reality do you live in where getting more rewards = “playing incorrectly”? Maybe you’re the one “playing incorrectly”? Anyway, I’m just casually doing all the events that Wintersday has to offer me. Not sure what’s “incorrectly” about that.

The problem with GW2’s loot/reward system and why I’m not happy with it:

The problem is that loot comes in quantity but not in quality. By playing GW2, no matter how I play it, I get a lot of loot and that’s fine if the loot was actually worth something. But the loot in GW2 basically comes down to a whole lot of nothing. And a whole lot of nothing is still nothing.

Sure, you can salvage loot for materials and luck, or you can sell it for a bit of gold. But with the amount of useless loot you get thrown at you by simply casually playing this game you’ll eventually get so much materials that you don’t even know what to do with them other than sell them at the Trading Post. Usually the prices for these materials are super low though and won’t get you a whole lot of gold. At the end of the road after salvaging and selling all your loot, you’ll be left with a very meager amount of gold and maybe a small handful of useful crafting mats.

For me, getting gold isn’t an issue. So I’m not complaining about that. Getting the materials I need isn’t an issue either because I can simply buy everything from the TP, so I’m not complaining about that either.

What I’m complaining about is that this quantity-over-quality loot system feels incredibly unrewarding and if you play a lot it’s actually feels like a burden. It’s not fun. Dealing with all the loot you’ve accumulated is sometimes a long and tiresome process with many mouse clicks involved (it actually gave me RSI at one point). And for what? A few silver, some crafting mats which you already have too much of and some worthless items that you can’t even sell? Not once did I actually get a weapon or item that was actually useful for me. Everthing I need and everything I use is all bought from the TP or crafted using mats that are mostly bought from the TP.

The biggest offenders are bloodstone bricks, dragonite ore and empyreal fragmets. These materials fill up your inventory bags faster than you can blink your eyes and for what? Not even the most dedicated ascended crafter needs that many bloodstone bricks/dragonite ore/emyreal fragments. So these materials are literally just glutter that take up precious inventory space and are of no use at all past a certain point. They only serve as an annoyance. Making these materials sell-able would not fix this problem, but it would still be better than having to ‘rightclick > destroy’ on all of the stacks after every hour or so.

Now with Wintersday it has become even worse…

By doing Wintersday events I get handed out literally hundreds of Wintersday Gifts. You can easily accumulate a full stack of them by playing 1 or 2 hours worth of Wintersdays events. That sounds good right? Well it’s not so good if half of the rewards inside these gifts are useless and the other half can’t be sold. Going through a full stack of Wintersday Gifts and dealing with all the junk that comes out of them by having to ‘rightclick > destroy’ on all of it (because I can’t even sell it to a vendor or on the TP) is not fun.

It has become so bad that I rather just sell my Wintersday Gifts on the TP and let some other poor sodd open them and deal with the junk that comes out of them. The money that I get from selling the Wintersday Gifts, as little as it is, actually feels more rewarding.

When selling presents feels more rewarding than opening them you know that something is not right.

Conclusion + Possible Solution:

So basically, what all this comes down to, is quality versus quantity. I would love to see a lower quantity of loot and a higher quality of loot. Give us less loot, but make the loot better or more interesting, for example items with unique skins or new armors specifically designed after certain world bosses, which can then only be obtained by defeating that world boss multiple times, or something along those lines.
The same thing could be done with Wintersday. Instead of making that cool new winter outfit a gemstore thing, why not turn it into an actual armor set and put the different armor pieces in the gift boxes? Or design another winter-themed armor set for heavy, medium and light, put them in the gift boxes and allow players to either use, salvage, sell or trade them so they can collect all the pieces of each set through opening a ton of gifts or simply trading duplicate skins with other players.

But I don’t know, maybe I’m the only person who feels this way. Or not? Does anyone else feel this way? And if so, what does Anet have to say about it?

Updated my build a kittenanged the runes and the utility buff (changed sharpening stones to maintenance oil).

Curious how this will play out.

Edit:

Link to the actual build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVl0MpyplOx7J8PNBNhwdsSz8O83yaFA-TFCBABXq+DEPAgzUCilyPAOFAFt/Qe6DY4IAEAABgbezhezhezSBUuwI-w

mango.9267:

Well, I say over 60% because single hit crits are very important for mainhand dagger. Backstab and heartseeker are both single hit attacks that deal very good damage when they crit and very meh damage when they don’t.

It’s different for a medi guard or sword mainhand thief because they don’t rely on any single hit to deal massive damage. The damage is normalized over a series of quick attacks, so there’s not as much concern over missing a crit on a single crucial attack.

Fury up-time for me is anywhere between 66% – 75% depending on how often I get hit and on my RNG. It’s already roughly 50% up-time using just thrill of the crime, so pack runes will significantly increase the up-time.

I hear ya. I’ve been running this build for a bit now and one of my biggest complaints already is that not all my backstabs are crits.

When I ran 2/6/6/0/0 or 0/6/6/2/0 I always used Hidden Killer to ensure that my backstabs would always be a crit. That way I also didn’t have to worry about precision because Hidden Killer would ensure a critical backstab anyway. As a D/D thief you need to be patient. You need to play as an assassin or a classical rogue (that’s what I do at least). You go in stealth and stay out of harms way until you see an opening and then you strike. A critical hitting backstab with (at least) 8 stacks of might will take out a good chunk of health from most players, followed by 1 full dagger 1 rotation and a heartseeker and the enemy will have lost such a huge amount of health that he’ll most likely go into defensive mode or start panicking and thus making mistakes.

It’s such a huge bummer and anti-climax when you work up to that point where you’re going to land that backstab with 8 or 10 stacks of might and then when you hit it doesn’t crit…. It honestly sucks. For that reason alone I’m already contemplating going back to 0/6/6/2/0. For small group fights that seems to be my preference. But I will keep experimenting with 2/0/6/0/6 solo because I do love the fully upgraded steal with Mug, Thrill of Crime, Bountiful Thief and Sleigh of Hand. It really turns the mediocre class skill into a very good and important part of my thief’s skill rotations and I like that.

Pretty sure it’s backstab, but I don’t have the math for it so I’m not 100% certain. If you trait for Hidden Killer then your backstab is a guaranteed crit every time and that really does add up if you consistently land backstabs and never miss one.

mango.9267:

This will work, but I recommend maintenance oil instead of sharpening stone. You want to aim for over 60% crit chance with fury. You have a lot of health, which is fine, but once you get comfortable playing the build, consider swapping out valk pieces for zerk.

Cool.

Why 60% specifically? I’ve always aimed at 50% myself. Then again I come from a medi-guardian background (my main) where 30% crit is more than enough because Fury will be handed out like candy and 50% crit after Fury on a guardian is more than enough. How is the Fury upkeep of this thief build? 50% of the time during fights give or take?

witcher.3197:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

With 2/6/0/0/6 I would actually go for the S/D setup, or S/P. Though I suppose D/P could work too with 2/6/0/0/6 but you’ll lack the extra mobility and condi-cleanse that sword has to offer.

Right now I’m playing D/P (with the same traits as in the link provided earlier). Sometimes I switch to S/D and play with this setup:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAsY6Yl0Mp8plOx7J8PNBNBt9EGeI8OMfpMaFAA-TFCBABXq+zS7PcmSQsU+JxDAAgTCQe6HY4IAEAAB4mtZb2mBu5NH6NH6NLFATKjA-w

2/6/0/0/6 is the “classic” D/P setup and very outdated for S/D thieves, for that 2/0/0/6/6 is the meta. For S/P it’s 6/2/0/0/6 or so. Also, not having a shortbow set is a terrible idea.

I haven’t been keeping up with the thief meta. I’ve mostly been playing guardian and warrior lately. Thanks for bringing me up to speed.

I disagree on the shortbow though. Shortbow is certainly awesome but p/d or p/p are also most certainly good ranged options (though p/p is definitely the weakest choice unless you run a condi-build).

This is good stuff. Do you think 2/0/6/0/6 would work with my gear setup? I don’t really feel like changing my gear so.

Here is what my build would look like with 2/0/6/0/6:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVl0Mp8plOx7J8PNBNhwdtVz8O83yaFA-TFCBwAQeAAL3f4sSQsK/AcKASpPgxRAQn6PBAQA4mD9mD9m3sUAlrMC-w

Let me know what you think.

With 2/6/0/0/6 I would actually go for the S/D setup, or S/P. Though I suppose D/P could work too with 2/6/0/0/6 but you’ll lack the extra mobility and condi-cleanse that sword has to offer.

Right now I’m playing D/P (with the same traits as in the link provided earlier). Sometimes I switch to S/D and play with this setup:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAsY6Yl0Mp8plOx7J8PNBNBt9EGeI8OMfpMaFAA-TFCBABXq+zS7PcmSQsU+JxDAAgTCQe6HY4IAEAAB4mtZb2mBu5NH6NH6NLFATKjA-w

2/0/6/0/6 is very popular right now, as is 2/6/0/0/6.

Condi-thieves are also very popular these days but I wouldn’t know the best condi builds to be honest, I’d have to ask my friend for that, who’s one of the better condi-thief players I know. I believe he runs 5/0/6/0/3 or something along those lines.

2/6/0/0/6 is most often used by sword users. Many s/d and s/p thieves I know run that setup, usually with Berserker gear, Valkyrie gear, Knights gear or a mix of those and other pieces.

I personally really like the Wurm runes because they give extra vitality and extra critical damage, which is more than welcome for my type of build and playstyle. Other popular runes are Scholar runes, Divinity runes and I think I’ve also seen people running Pack runes and Traveler runes. Personally I’ve only ever used Wurm, Scholar and Divinity runes for my thief and I liked all 3, but I think I’ll be sticking to Wurm for now.

As for sigils: Any on-crit sigil is always good. Personally I prefer Air because it does more single-target damage and has a lower cooldown. Another popular choice is Fire.
For the 2nd sigil either use Force, Accuracy or Battle. I think those are the 3 most popular choices for WvW. Then put Bloodlust on your bow to crank up your power. I usually kill a bunch of mobs at spawn with my bow before I head out roaming.

My build is pretty standard but works well small groups:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAV4Yl0Mp8plOx7J8PNRPRtdAEbPA3fwEUgddDA-TFCBABXq+DEHBgl2f4MlgYp8DgLCQe6GY4BAEAAB4m3Mb2mBDdoDdoDdodzbO0bO0bWKgIWGB-w

Pros:
- Decent health pool for conditions to eat away at.
- Pretty tanky as long as you’re in stealth, which you will be a lot if you play this right.
- Gain more might the longer you’re in stealth, allowing you to get up to 8 stacks of might from being in stealth alone.
- Decent mobility for a d/d thief. You’re not gonna be as mobile as a s/d or d/p thief but still mobile enough to jump in and out of fights.
- Pretty straight-forward build all-in-all, of which variations are used by many thieves both noob and pro.
- In a group fight this build truly shines. If you change the Hidden Killer trait to Executioner you’ll be very good at picking off enemies one by one in group fights.
- You can easily try out different weapon sets without needing to change your build. both s/d and d/p are good weapon sets for this build.

Cons:
- Because it’s a standard build you’re going to be predictable, so you’re going to have to rely on skill and patience, not cheap tricks or surprises.
- You might need a buddy to play with. I feel this build doesn’t do incredibly well in 1v1, but maybe that’s just my lack of skill. I’ve seen players using this build in 1v1 and pulling it off so…
- D/D is quite hard and unforgiving sometimes. Dagger/pistol is way easier to play and might be a better choice.

Not much else to say, unless you have any questions about the build.

People use specific builds for map completion these days?

I just use whatever build I have at the time, throw Signet of Shadows + Shadow Refuge + whatever in my utility slots and then go. Open-world PvE is so incredibly easy that honestly any build will do just fine as long as you have Signet of Shadows for that 25% movement speed and Shadow Refuge to avoid mobs when needed.