Guild Wars 2

Gulbrandr.9047:

Well, that’s a disagreement with their story choices, not really a legitimate point for the actual lore discussion, though, since the lore is necessarily put in the context of their story choices. As for the Foefire being out of place… I don’t think so. What changed him? You see him at one point during the Titan quest, and he says the following:

“A long time have I fought for Ascalon. First as a soldier blessed by Balthazar, now as its king. Though I have survived one more battle, and I will see another day, it will not make me any more wise… only one day older. I have lost all that a man can lose. All that I have left is this antiquated set of armor and the remains of this tattered kingdom. I thank you for your help today. Rurik would have been very proud of all you have accomplished.”

“I have lost all a man can lose”? That sounds like someone depressed, with literally nothing left to live for. Someone who’d consider doing something rash — terminally rash — just to spite his lifelong enemies.

Now, for the more interesting question: Why did Glint send you to save his life? Did she need the Foefire to happen, in the same way she needed you to wipe out the Mursaat before destroying the Titan threat, despite the Mursaat being the most powerful enemies of the Titans out there?

I think he discovered that he had one more thing to lose.

As for Glint quite possibly. The Foefire did force the charr to settle with what they have and give them something to fight.

Garenthal.1480:

I’m just baffled that humanity has become so meek, yet we’re meant to believe that the races’ greatest and most intriguing trait is that they never give up no matter the odds? I can accept the peace treaty, what I struggle to accept is how almost everyone who disagrees with it finds themselves thrown into villain territory. Not only that, but we’re forced to smile and agree with everything Jennah does.

Of course, those of us who role-play will make our own minds up regarding what our character thinks and feels about such things. The political intrigue in this setting is very well done, though I’d urge Arena Net to take it a step further and directly encourage players to take sides and even disagree with the decisions of major lore figures from time to time.

That’s not to say we shouldn’t work together, but it’d be nice if there was a lot more room for grudges to prosper.

The political intrigue in among the humans is very polar. The Legate Minister vs the Queen. On the minister’s side it appears there are connections to bandits and possibly worse as well. The Queen on the other hand, seems focused on the welfare of Kryta and dealing with the Elder Dragons.

Note, that about the peace treaty, we do see voices of people unconvinced with it but who accept that its happened. You also see people unconvinced it will last or that the other side is trustworthy. The Seperatists however are an example of people who cant let go of their hatred and it directs them to more extreme methods.

By GW2 the debate over if they should have a treaty is over. The truce has been in effect for a while already. With the benifits of the treaty starting to show you start to see people becoming more convinced by the treaty’s benifits. Thats the reason that groups like the Seperatists are becoming more extreme. They are growing desperate.

Note that humans other great trait is their ability to adapt. Ebonhawke is actually getting quite a bit out of the treaty. You see them setting up the groundwork for settlements across the Feilds of Ruin. The Charr are giving up captured land. Considering Ebonhawke has had no real gains in over a century you could see that as somewhat of a victory.

I wont disagree that compared to the other races the humans seem very passive this time round but in the charr/human relations they did alright.

As a side note, alot of Ash Legion NPCs are necromancers.

Magic is often tied to Flame Legion for alot of charr because the Flame Legion had the strongest magic users out of all the Legions. The other Legions however recognise and value magic even if they arent particularly comfortable with it. Of course opinions will very a great deal from charr to charr.

Theres a point in the personal story ‘Light in the Darkness’ where you get a chance to see the emotions going on inside the different members of Destiny’s Edge and you can see how their own personal issues and pain is whats keeping them from making up.

In Logan’s case its struggling with guilt and denial. He doesnt know what he could have done better and feels that he would still make the same choice but feels terrible he failed his friends.

I get the impression that the main reason Jennah hasnt already married Logan is because she doesnt want to tie him to her. She has dialog in the personal story where she comments on how she made that mistake in the past and the world suffered for it.

She wants Logan to have the freedom to go out and do what he needs to do rather than hanging around and keeping her safe. To quote her, she needs ’ a partner, not another servant’. Logan is almost obsessive of her in the early parts of the game. She keeps pushing him to go out and do what he needs to do.

I also suspect she does love him. Hes dedication is to her as much as to the throne. He protects her as much because shes Jennah rather than a Queen. To a woman who since childhood would have had people trying to manipulate and toady to her for power, having a dashing man as honest and capable as him showing such interesting would have been very appealing Id suspect.

Infact the part of the romance I always thought was a bit off was how Logan had a love at first sight moment. Jennah’s interest makes alot more sense.

It kind of of makes sense that everything in Orr would be tied to undead. It is undead central. The fact that everything is undead frankly I think makes it cooler. It just shows how pervasive Zhaitan’s corruption is. It would make very little sense to be fighting much else in this zone. Certainly Im not incline to complain cause at least they go for variety among the enemies in the area.

However Orr at the 4 zones tied to it arent the whole game. They arent even the only 70-80 content. Undeath is a central theme of this chapter of the game because we are up against the Elder Dragon of Undeath. It is however hardly like thats all Arenanet ever puts us up against.

Adzy.8370:

yeah so bandits/centuars til level 40…. level 40+ zombies for the rest of the game.

Really? Where are the zombies in Fireheart Rise? How about the Dredgehaunt Cliffs? Iron Marches? Well I suppose there are some ghosts in the Iron Marches in the very corner of the map.

Theres a lot of content that has no zombies in it. Im also yet to see anything like a vampire. Really, your making it sound like there is nothing but zombies.

I wanted to chime in and say that I find the background dialog between NPCs adds an ambiance to the cities I really love. I agree that vendors however really need to only be audible when the player speaks to them rather than when every player speaks to them.

Id say A. Id be disappointed if the general activity of the NPCs in the game got alot quiter. Perhaps the solution would be to have less dialog in areas where people craft or have ‘quite’ zones in the city for people who just want to avoid the dialog while they sit around the cities.

You make it sound like undead are the only notable plot they do. In Nightfall the undead played a pretty minor role. Nightfall was about human armies, demon worshippers, demons and a fallen god. Most of the undead in Factions alot of people didnt even realise were actually undead.

Even in GW2 undead are certianly not the be all and end all of all the content. The ghosts of Ascalon are almost a distraction for the charr rather than a major threat. The Flame Legion and the Brand play a much bigger role in the charr zones. In the Norn zones undead play almost no role. In the humans zones they are a minor presence.

As for why Necromancy plays such a big role, its one of the primary forms of magic in the game.

Tinni.4351:

I think what bothered me about Logan’s decision was that I honestly believe that Logan did not care about Destiny’s Edge as much as Destiny’s Edge cared about him. I got this impression most strongly when Caithe was visited by Faolain. Logan’s reaction to that, when contrasted with those of Rythlock made it clear to me that Logan simply did not think of Destiny’s Edge as being as close to his heart as Rythlock did. I might be wrong here but that’s the impression I got. That’s my big problem with Logan’s decision because I don’t think that decision was ever much of a dilemma for Logan. The life of all of Destiny’s Edge simply didn’t matter to him quite as much as his life did to his friends, if that makes sense…

I think what we see of the inner workings of Logan’s mind shows that the decision was a huge dilemma for him. Alot of people seem to forget in the end of the book how shattered by his failures he was. ‘He failed his freinds, he failed his brother. At least he hadnt failed Jennah.’

Hes torn cause he feels guilt but at the same time feels that it was the choice he had to make. Theres no way he could have saved everyone but at the same time he feels he failed because of it so hes very defensive about it.

The players couldnt be the general. Generalls dont have the option of going off on their own and running around without support. Rulers in general dont. Trahearne filled all the running an army and coming up with the stratagy. The player was the one who made everything work.

I have to say Ive been very suprised about the Trahearne hate. He certianly wasnt my favorate character but he didnt bother me as he was.

Also you’d find the later quests do reference earlier quests.

True they werent major roles but many of the characters from our earliers stories quite possibly will return in future content.

Trahearne struck me as a talented and experianced necromancer whos goal and drive in life (literally) was to cure Orr but he had no idea how really to begin. When you meet him hes sort of directionless. Thats seems to be the reason he follows you along at the start. Hes capable and is driven to do something but doesnt know what to do.

Its the player who guides him onto that path. Infact the player practically forces him into the role.

Its the player character that makes him see and accept the role he is needed for. Its the player character who suggests and instigates the formation of the Pact. Its the player character that puts forward Trehearne to be the marshal. Its the player character that leads the frontline troops into retaking the tactical sites on Claw Island and then leads the charge against the Plaguebringer.

Its the player character who reassures the doubts of the other pact members and holds the pact together. Its the player character who names Fort Trinity. Its the player character who kills Zhiatan.

The player character, not Trahearne.

Even the Dream of Orr in the Light in the Darkness mission has things aimed squarely at the player character. Trahearne has nothing to do with the gathering of Destiny’s Edge. She was showing Trahearne what he needed to be and showing the player character what needed to be done.

The problem is that for so many that just doesnt seem to be either enough or feel owned by them. I wonder why. Its not something Ive had a problem with.

Crawlkill, are you seriously trying to portray the Nightmare Court as misunderstood victims here? The Nightmare Court has basicly declared war on the Dreamers. What exactly would you have the Sylvari do? They clearly dont have the numbers to wipe out the Nightmare Court so they certainly dont have the numbers to capture and hold them all against their will. We have also seen attempts by people to talk round members of the Nightmare Court and it has never ended well.

Again, what would you have them do?

Gromlaw.4125:

I coulda sworn I read in Destiny’s Edge that he had some sort of spell or that Jennah has some sort of aura about her that had him drawn to her, as in it wasnt so much his own choice.

He had a spell on him that bonded him to her. As it seems though from what we have heard from devs that it allowed him to know when she was in danger. That spell he quite willingly allows to get cast on him.

What drew Logan to her originally is that the though she was hot.

The Shining Blade acts as an inteligence service as well as a bodyguard to the Queen. They appear to be the equivilant to the CIA where as the Seraph are a mix of a police force and a standing army.

Note that the Seraph seem to deal alot more with hidden threats. I would expect there members to go where ever they are needed to protect Kryta and the queen. From interacting with the Exemplars in the personal story the Shining Blade also seems to have alot of secret knowledge and information.

The Shining Blade is public knowledge as is Anise. However the Shining Blade are probably seen more as primarily bodyguards for the queen rather than a secret agency.

As for the White Mantle…

I will add I would have liked to see humanity a bit more involved in the events of GW2 story so far. My only thought is that with Orr being so heavy in human lore they thought that having notable humans play a major role might have made things too human heavy in Orr.

People are trying to get caught up in ‘good’ and ‘bad’ in a very long conflict involving different generations in a method of writing which is writes much more as ‘us’ and ‘them’.

There is nothing black and white about ANY of the races.

The way they chose to write things for the transition fo the charr to GW2 is that the bulk of the atrocities were committed by the the Flame Legions who are sadistic, and even commited those atrocities on their own people. The Flame Legion are still downright villianous.

Im not saying that charr are all innocent and nice kittens. They are anything but. They are an aggressive and hard race that balances that aggression with pragmatism and discipline. Charr society is also far from flawless. I think the Charr would seriously struggle adapting to a true peace. These things however are part of the Charr’s story and their development as a race.

However the sadistic brutality on the level we saw alot in GW1 seems more part of the Flame Legions identity which makes sense since their shaman culture evolved under the influence of the Titans, who were created from tortured souls themselves.

In short its hard to paint any race in GW2 with a single color. They just arent like that including the minor races.

Infact Im very impressed with how Arenanet managed the transition from GW1 to GW2 for the charr without decharring them.

Garenthal.1480:

I just hope the darker aspect of Jennah is explored, if only to make her more interesting. I do hope that being a puppet is going to take its toll upon her, since whilst she may be loved by a portion of Kryta’s populace, she’s locked in a power struggle with Minister Caudecus. I find him more intriguing, since he’s willing to do a lot of shady stuff to get what he wants. I tire of the ‘love and peace’ propaganda spouted out by Jennah and her supporters…mostly because it all boils down as a convenient and somewhat forced plot device to ensure that the charr are a playable race and not in a different faction.

It’s just a real shame that Logan was the sacrificial lamb to highlight just how important Jennah is meant to be. The damage is now done and we can see that by the overwhelming amount of hate people direct at him.

I dont think you really get much of an understanding of Jennah and I cant help but feel your a little too hung up on the charr. Jennah made a truce with the charr, not due to ‘love and peace’ but out of neccesity. Humanity was in no position to keep spending resources fighting the charr. Infact there was never even talk of a treaty with the charr prior to Kralkatorik’s attack on Ebonhawke.

Also how is Jennah a puppet?

And Caudecus is a jerk. Half the troubles humanity is currently happening can probably be put at his front door.

You really want both of humanity’s leaders to be unmitigated jerks more interested in their own power than the welfare and possible future of their people?

bluejay.6739:

— SPOILERS —

In a later part his spirit reveals that he did it because he was in love with her and couldn’t let the woman he loves die.

So we have the entire planet being eaten by a elder dragon versus the death of his love. Not an easy choice, but I think the fate of the entire planet is clearly the bigger ‘good’ in this case.

Of course, this entire story REALLY went wrong when Gwen married Keiran, who other than having some over powered bow was a complete tool and couldn’t even make his own freaking picnic.

If Gwen had just married your character, Tyria would be a dragon free paradise now… which would admittedly make for a very boring game.

Keiran needed your help because he was tied up with patrols. Also how would Tyria be a dragon free paradise? What if the GW1 character was female? What was wrong with Keiran anyway? I liked him. God knows he had the patience of a rock when it came to dealing with Gwen.

We have no proven reason as to why the sylvari are humanoid. It could be thats just there natural form. It could be that the Pale Tree is somehow linked to the Druids who, before coming nature spirits, were all human. Alternatively they could be linked to the Wardens who were humanoid as well.

Alternatively, the Pale Tree and its ‘sisters’ could just replicate creatures that already exist in the world. After all fern hounds come from the Pale Tree as well and we dont know of any mass graves of dogs buried under the Pale Tree. Infact Im not sure if there are any dogs native to the area at all.

Malyk fits into lore fine because we dont know much about the Pale Tree and its origins.

crawlkill.6174:

Saying “you can’t cure Nightmare corruption” is ridiculous. Again…does the real world give up on the ill, mentally or otherwise, after twenty-five years? It’s clear the sylvari DO see Nightmare membership as an illness. Its being irreversible is just some fiat declaration to make it okay to murder them by the M&Mly handful (and you can just bet there’ll be “redeemed Nightmarers” showing up somewhere down the line, since no nerd can resist the temptation to reenact Drizzt).

It’s really kind of ambiguous to me how the relationship between Dreamers and Courtiers has come to be what it is. Courtiers convert Dreamers, but Dreamers just murder Courtiers, and we see frequently that Courtiers recruit through persuasion just as they do through, uh, hands-on methods.

I don’t know. It all just seems pitched at that grade school level. “THEY ARE THE BAD GUYS WE ARE GOOD SEE WE BELIEVE IN CENTAUR MOSES.” Then any act is suddenly excusable, because, well, every eight-year-old knows you have to shoot the bad guys til they fall down.

Your understating how insidious the Nightmare Court is and how much of a threat they are to the Dreamers. The Courtiers do kill Dreamers and anyone else on a regular basis. They are seeking to fill the dream with so much pain that it basicly corrupts the minds of other sylvari regardless of what they want.

The Nightmare Court started the fight. They are the ones that attacked the Dreamers. In general the Dreamers let people pick their own path. Infact, picking your own path in life is something frequently said by sylvari. The Nightmare Court is frequently been attacking, murdering and kidnapping other sylvari. For the Dreamers to not act against them would be downright stupid.

What would you have the Dreamers do? Its pretty clear the Nightmare Court is too big to just ‘imprison’ since its even in open war the Dreamers havent been able to stomp them out. There is certainly no indication that anyone can come back from the Nightmare. Certainly Im unaware of anyone successfully doing it in lore and its been tried several times. They certainly cant leave the Nightmare Court to do want it want considering its actively attacking other sylvari.

The principle of ‘Everything has a right to grow’ is closer to ‘Everything has a right to have a chance in life’. The concept is that things should be judged by what they do not what they are. It means that rather than kill a krait because its a krait you should allow it to choose first if it can live in a way that coexists with others.

In this regard the Sylvari are pretty good at keeping to the tenent. In general the Sylvari only kill foes that are hostile to others. Hostile skritt in the game as a rule ambush and rob people on a regular basis. Also Im pretty sure that we dont have cases of Dreamers killing indiscriminately.

The same cant be said for the Nightmare Court. Currently in Lore I dont know of a single case of one of the Nightmare Court being ‘cured’. On the contary, a number of them have commited acts so bad its cut them off form the dream competely and so they have to torture others to effect the dream. The Nightmare Court doesnt just kidnap people. They engage in wanton slaughter and murder.

We cant be sure about the corruption of the Nightmare. The Pale Tree seems to feel its not possible to come back from it and as the one most strongly connected to the Dream she is in the best place to know. Also note it isnt something she is happy about. She is literally their mother.

As for Caithe I think she is perhaps about as pragmatic and borderline to the Nightmare as a Sylvari can get. Its probably as much her introspection and dedication to her duty that keeps her from being like lover.

In short the teaching ‘Everything a right to grow’ applied to other Sylvari means that any Sylvari has a right to chose its path. Not the Soundless are respected and protected somewhat by the Dreamers (its a warden who gives the heart to strike at the nightmare court harrasing the Soundless). The Nightmare Courtiers chose a path that does not allow mutual coexistance.

In truth Arenanet really didnt need to do that much retconing if any at all to make the charr what they are now. We really knew very little about the charr except that they worshiped the Titans and fought with a brutal furocity. They committed attrocities, hated humans and took slaves.

The early charr were very two dementional when it comes to culture and social behaviours. We knew nearly nothing of their history and what we did know as very bias since it was from a purely invading human perspective. They were a monsterous race that we had conquered. I might point out that the conquest part was there from the very begining.

Arenanet has never portrayed humans as unflawed or not just as prone to horrible behaviour as real life humans. None of the races are presented as unflawed. Its clear in prophecies that humans came in and stomped on everyone else right from the start. Hell even in the original manual it state the humans came in and destroyed all the Forgottens efforts including waging war on the Forgotten themselves.

This virtue/vice applies to all their races, even the minor ones. The dredge have a tragic history, which has made them inherently xenophobic but the now want to apply the same oppresion to other races partially because as a culture thats how they learned the world works. This doesnt make all dredge like that or mean dredge are inherently unable to live in peace with other races. It means that the dredge in general see the rest of the world and how it works in a way that isnt neccesarily true.

The Flame Legion actually is a great way of them explaining the change in charr society. We know there was a clear leading shaman caste in Prophecies. To make this caste an oppresive ruling class made charr society at the time make sense.

Finally, Gwen wasnt demonised except by the charr. She was a soldier who hated the charr with a passion and killed hundreds of them. To the charr she was a monster. She wasnt villianised. Generally, most war heroes are considered monsters by their opponents. This is where differing and bias views come into it.

1. In Nightfall a charr shaman trapped in the Realm of Torment explains how the charr discovered the titans and began worshiping them as gods. Do remember the entire charr invasion was simply part of Abaddon’s plans and primarily targeted at Orr.

It doesnt state at any time the charr worshipped fire. In GW:EN we learn a bit more in that the charr were driven from their lands by invading humans. This is lore from as early as Prophicies. Considering the invading humans had the gods on their side literally its not suprising that the charr in trying to figure out why they lost would see that as the key.

Humans arent the catalyst for all the evils charr do. I never said they were. Before the humans turned up the charr quite probably took the lands of Ascalon from the natives that lived there before.

2. As for things like eating prisoners its hard to know details. The Flame Legion was the dominant force in charr society at the time. Most of the charr linked to Gwen’s experiances with them were Flame Legion. And the Flame Legion was very brutal even to its own people. Having said that Id not be suprised if the charr did eat captives particularly in a scorched enviroment like Ascalon was after the Searing and considering that the charr are carnivores. Charr generally arent that nice to prisoners anyway. The charr dont seem to practice that now though.

Perhaps it is all true but charr society has changed alot and youll have trouble these days punishing anyone guilty of doing it back then since they are all dead.

3. Adelbern cracked. He’d been fraying since Prophecies. He was a man who was trapped by his pride and by old hatreds. He couldnt let his grudges from the Guild Wars go even when his own people were at stake. When Ascalon City fell he basicly cracked.

On a side note the humans originally had a very heroic story of Adelbern heroicly fighting the Flame Legion Imperitor and the Claw of the Khan Ur and Magdear clashing causing the Foefire which we discover is blatently false. Thats my point about different sides bending the truth to make things look better. Pop down into the Ruins of Rin and you will find a charr from the Durmond Priory trying to learn the true events of what happened on the day that stormcaller was blown. As Durmond Priory NPCs often say ‘History never lies, Historians however….’

4. The Searing is old history. Hell, even the enviroment as mostly recovered from it. To put an event that none of the charr or humans living today were part of or experianced ahead of the welfare of the people alive with today is stupid. The War for Ascalon was lost the moment the Foefire happened. Continuing that fight now acheives nothing but entrenching old hatreds and getting people killed for those hatreds.

The Searing has mostly been avenged against the primary ones responsable for it. The Flame legion is under seige, all the primary shamans we see involved in it get killed in GW1, the titans are wiped out and Abaddon who was behind it all got killed. The charr have driven the humans out as completely as the humans drove the charr out the first time.

Alot of humans in GW2 care about Ascalon and the Searing. It comes up constantly in dialog particularly in Durmond Priory camps in the Charr zones. Many of the humans there are there because they want to preserve what they can of Ascalon’s history and heritage.

The question is, is it worth the lives of the people you have now. Fighting the charr now achieves nothing and with all the other threats humanity has on its plate is pretty counterproductive.

Really? Ive found there to be an almost overwhelming amount of lore. A good start might be to look at Wooden Potatoes Lore videos. You should be able to find them on Youtube. You can also try the wiki which you can get to from a tab on the top of this page.

Also have a look at the GW main page. There some information on the world to be gleaned from it as well. If there is something in particular you want to know about asking on this forum will probably get you answers.

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

Larynx.2453:

I cry every time I see Risen Quaggan.

There’s undead Quaggan?! Sadface

Yeah, there are risen quaggan and quaggan corrupted by Jormag in the game… poor quaggan.

The link between the humans and their gods is definately a powerful one and a major part of their race. When looking at humans its worth remembering what the Muse of Lyssa said at the end of Nightfall. Humanity carries in it aspects of all the gods and it reflects in their nature and in their society.

Cappy.2786:

Lutinz.6915:

They appear to be a deep sea race so we will likely see more of them when dealing with Bubbles.

Largos came from far shiverpeaks along with kodan.Deep sea dragon is speculated to be in cantha so no.

The Largos appear to be native to both oceans in the same way the Quaggan are. You can run into them quite alot in game. Theres one in the Brisbane Wildlands, one up near the Kodo and a few around Orr.

Omacron.4690:

Legion.4198:

Without a heir, any monarchist goverment risk civil war. All nobles want the crown after all and will conspire to get it. A King without a heir is in an extremly vulnerable position because any potential conspirators wouldn’t need to factor the princess, thus reducing any coup to a single assassination.

Is Kryta’s government “monarchist”? The relative power wielded by its legislative body implies a constitutional monarchy of some sort. In the absence of a monarch, the Legate Minister would probably be able to hold the nation together.

And for the record, stopping a dragon who threatens the entire world places higher on the priority list than stopping a war that only involves two races.

The problem is who replaces Jennah. Even if Edge of Destiny killed Kralkatorik there would still be 4 or 5 EDs out there and the one friendly champion would be out of the fight. More over without the treaty between the Charr and the Humans, which would have been very unlikely without Jennah, the Orders would have had far more trouble gaining resources they needed to fight the EDs effectively.

Its only because they have succeeded in getting the races to start working together that organisations like the Vigil have gained the strength they have.

In defeating Kralkatorik thery would have won a major battle but suffered a great loss to there war against the EDs.

One of the key points in GW2 is the EDs cant be beaten without a united front from all the major races and several of the minor ones.

Four or Five more to go. I have a feeling we will deal with more than one per expac. There is alot of other things happening in the world of Tyria so hopefully they wont ignore all that by focusing just on the dragons.

Do remember that in GW1 we really mainly only get one side of the story (the human one) and we mainly see a charr society under the yoke of a pretty brutal theocracy. Also we need to realise much of current Charr society was shaped by the humans in the first place. The whole reason they looked to the Titans as gods was because they got driven out by the humans.

Also Adelbern was a stubborn and bitter man back in GW1 when he continually refused add from Kryta even when his people desperately needed it. Instead he ended up cursing almost every human in Ascalon to an eternity of endless hate and conflict.

Arenanet has writen the story so we hear it from both sides. From the Charr side the humans and their heros are bad guys. In both cases youll find alot of historical inaccuracies. This goes on to much of the lore in game. Orr is full of revelations. All races present history in a very bias way. Humanity is very guilty of this.

As for the threat of the Dragons, when it comes to Charr/Human relations it is very real for the main parties still fighting. The Dragonbrand passes right past Ebonhawke. For the Ebon Vanguard and the Charr the threat of the dragons is very real and very close to home. For the rest of humanity the Charr invasion of Ascalon is old history. Its a battle long since lost. The fact that Ebonhawke has stood till the Charr have negociated peace is one hell of a testiment to those who defended it.

Greyfur.1082:

Kaine.3501 I would like to invite you to our godless guild (secular and atheist friendly) if you play on Gate of Madness

http://godless.guildlaunch.com
Wiser With Age said it better then I could

Wiser with Age.3714:

The Charr thought that they had their own set of gods, but these ended up being just extremely powerful mortal constructs. Who is to say that the Human gods aren’t the same way?

The Six can have children? Grenth is Dwayna’s son and was born on Tyria. Balthazar has a half brother and sounds like he killed his father held his spot before him. Kormir was a human only 250 years ago. They arent the same as titans.

Frankly this is just getting into issues of definition. What is a god? In GW2 the closest definition we have is that of the Six since they have been seen actively in the game world lore prior and we know the power they represent is very real and apparently eternal (look at Abaddon’s power from nightfall).

They are gods in the way the Greek mythology had gods so yes they are really just vastly more powerful entities. Even the humans dont argue this point. Infact as far as I know only the Kodan seem to have a religion that parallels the real world modern day defination of god.

For this reason its hard to call them Atheists. Its not that they dont believe the Gods are real. They just dont believe they or anything for that matter is worthy of worship. Even if a god was shoved in their faces and they had undeniable proof Id say they would be unwilling to worship it. Thats not really Atheism.

In truth, Id say alot of Atheists are probably closer to the Asura belief in Eternal Alchemy which is more a religion of Science.

ParaldaWind.4523:

RaptorSpectre.3271:

Basically the plan was bad. The group acted like selfish children instead of trained soldiers. Its everybody’s fault and they need to all grow up

Ding ding ding.

Except maybe Rytlock and Caithe. They acted relatively mature.

The way Rytlock stormed off at the end wasnt particularly mature.

Illushia.3721:

Safari.3021:

you’re all wrong, The dragons are the Gods mortal forms, thats why tyria hasn’t heard from them since the dragons reappeared 6 dragons, 6 gods. coincidence?

5 Dragons. Jormag, Primordius, Zhaitan, Kralkatorrik, unnamed seadragon.

Humans still got responses from the 6 Gods until recently, when they finally went all but silent.

Grenth speaks through an Avatar, talking about how he wants back a follower/Priest/something stolen by Zhaitan.

You can’t steal from yourself. Try again.

Actually there is very strong evidence in game that says there are 6 dragons.

I dont however think the Gods and the Dragons are actually the same.

They appear to be a deep sea race so we will likely see more of them when dealing with Bubbles.

Humanity has an interesting place in GW2. Being so dominant in GW1 it looks like Arenanet has gone out of its way to avoid making them dominant in GW2. However I think Humanity is easily underestimated. There strength is more subtle. Out of all the races, the humans are the most tenacious, most adaptable and most flexable of the races. They are natural survivors and have a amazing talent for countering the strengths of there opponents.

Humans however also have old enemies which is what I think the source of alot of there current woes are at the moment and Im not talking about the Charr.

Human is are better at working together as a race than the Asura and the Norn, they are more experianced and know more than the Sylvari and they are more adaptable and a have a broader range of skills to the Charr.

When it comes to defending or taking a hit from a stronger foe the humans have a better track record than any other race. Just look at the fall of Ascalon, the events of Nightfall, and the 250 year Siege of Ebonhawke.

Humans are also the best builders of the races. Look at the biggest structures in game and most of them will be humans. Ebonhawke’s walls, Divinity’s Reach, The Great Northern Wall and even the structures in Arah.

When Ree Soesbee was asked in an interview to sum up what humans brought to the table she said ternacity and spirit. They dont break, they adapt, they survive and they find a way to make it work. Of all the races the Humans are the ones that have actually killed a god before. Theres a reason for that.

I think it varies. My main experiances have been with the Shadow Behemoth which was fine since it was a starting level boss and actually had some variety of mechanics and Tequatl.

Tequatl was badly balanced. All his mechanics were completely ignorable. Even the Megalaser was pretty much uselesss since the dragon was already almost dead before it was charged.

I know the fight has mechanics to it. Its just a shame that all of them were pretty much ignorable.

I think they want to avoid setting any single players experiance as the canon story as it undermines everyone elses story as ‘not the real one’.

Its not like its the only theme they have had in there games. As for Shiro, he was a rather unique play on undeath. Technically originally he wasnt undead but was an Envoy, a soul chosen to guide other souls to the underworld as penance for their crimes during their lives.

In GW1 we start by fighting an undead dragon. Its not suprising alot of the zones are rather undead heavy. There will be quite alot of the story which wont focus on the undead. With necromancy a large part of the game it would be odd not to atleast have undeath present in the game.

I agree that Light in the Darkness was awesome. That mission does a fantastic job of pumping you to go after Zhiatan. I think its also very important in both Trehearne’s development and his relationship with the player character.

Cordayne.9012:

Sajuuk Khar.1509:

The Bloodstones separate magic into aggression, destruction, preservation, and denial.

What does denial magic do? Or.. whatever? What does it mean? :O

From memory I believe destruction and preservation were linked to Elementalists and Monks (Guardians in GW2). Denial I think was mesmers and Aggression was Necromancers though Im not sure. Most profession abilities play off these. For example Thief Shadowsteping is probably Denial.

Cordayne.9012:

Alright! So that’s a few things answered. What about Guardians then? And what about how casting itself works? Mana? Energy? Gestures with your hand? A staff? Mutter a spell? Chanting?

I think it depends how talented the caster is. In some cases it requires training to harness effectively and in other cases it is just inate. Orrians for example seemed to be able to use magic as easily as breathing. I think there are many ways to cast magic though.

The only thing I would add to this is if it turned out that the Pale Tree was connected to an Elder Dragon it would give new meaning to the Ventari teaching ‘Everything has a right to grow.’

Siadea.3950:

Oh man, that theory was shot down? That sucks. That seriously sucks. Still, Jennah KNEW they were going out to kill an Elder Dragon, but still chose to ask for help? I’m afraid she just doesn’t come off very well either way.

Actually, what she knew was that they had gone out to fight Glint to stop her from waking her master. Jennah didnt know Glint had betrayed her master. The very fact that Kralkatorik was up and around would have suggested to her that they had already failed.

Jennah does however agree that it was selfish of her to expect Logan to play protector of her and go out and be a hero at the same time. She says as much in one of the human personal stories. Thats also why she pushes Logan to leave at the end of CM story mode.

ParaldaWind.4523:

It wasn’t a decision at all. In the book, Jennah enchants him with a bond that essentially forced him to come to her aid.

The bond made him aware that she was in mortal danger. It allowed her to call out to him. Id again point out that he willingly let her put that bond on him.

Much of Logan’s story in GW2 is him struggling with the guilt of the choice he made. Not guilt that he made the wrong choice but guilt that there was no way for him to save both of them. The fact he chose to leave at let a freind die eats at him and makes him both really defensive and overly protective of Jennah. If you do the ‘Light in the Darkness’ personal story event pay attention to what Logan says.

The whole point of Logan’s issue is he personally had no good options. Regardless what he did it was going to end disasterously for him.

Lorati.7361:

captaincrash.6528:

its not a mesmer mind control thing the question was asked in an interview and jeff grubb said its not

Source?

Im pretty sure it was one of the gaming conventions Q&As. There has been a few of them.

Shael.4703:

Lutinz.6915:

Ive had a look but the issue I have is that Elonian, Canthan and Tyrian cultures are all very different. I dont see all those vary diverse cultures evolving in quite a small area of land particularly if you take into account physiological differences like skin color. There isnt anything Ive seen that suggests that Elona or Orr was a colony of Cantha. There are the Margonites too who quite possibly had a unique culture themselves.

If the humans came through the Rift from another world the place they entered Tyria could have easily have been a location in the south and spread from there particularly if the Gods were overseeing them.

Yes, they are all different, when people migrate and time passes, things change. Elona or Orr are not colonies of Cantha, no one said that. But it doesn’t mean humanity did not come from “south of Cantha”.

In the real-world, scientists claim that we all came from Africa and migrated northwards to the fertile crescent. From there we spread out all over the world. So, Africa is your “south of Cantha”. The fertile crescent is your “continent of Cantha” (Dragon Empire, Kurzick, Luxon after thousands of years). From there, the human race spread all over tyria – to what later will be known as Elona, Orr, Ascalon, Kryta, Vabbi, etc.

And you mentioned the margonites. They’re just another group (I don’t want to use ‘tribe’ since we don’t know their culture or how many they were originally) of humans that worshipped Abaddon exclusively, and has the guts to defile the other 5 gods.

But that also mean that the human race has been worshipping the 6 gods since before the event known as Exodus of the gods. That’s a pretty long history for humanity to spread out, change in skin color, develop their own culture, establish kingdoms and destroy other races.

At the end, the human race still originated “south of Cantha”, granted, maybe the six gods dropped them there, “south of Cantha”, and found move northward to Cantha, the “fertile crescent”.

Humans on earth spread out from Africa over a period of 100s of thousands of years at least. Humans on tyria had less than 3000 years. Thats a hell of a short period of time to develop vastly different (continual) cultures, let alone develop the physical differences that you see between elonians and Tyrians. Also remember that much of these cultures are quite similar to what they were historicly at the time of the Exodus.

Most of the information we have to work from seems to point at humans being brought to the world by the gods, possibly as refugees. It wouldnt be suprising, particularly as it doesnt seem the gods themselves are native.

If the Devs themselves hadnt said outright that the Gods brought humans to the world Id be incline to agree that they might still be native but a Dev saying it makes it pretty conclusive.

RaZaC.1963:

I’m not 100% positive on this because its a vauge memory but i beleef Ogden Stonehealer was talking about: him being the last dwarf that lives in the light

Now like i said i’m not sure but i think he also said something like: “the rest of my race lives deep underground fighting the dragons from below”.

Now i’m going to look at this when i’m back from work (A) but also on the wiki it states:

“As of 1325 AE, Ogden Stonehealer is the last dwarf interacting with the surface”.

But then it follows with: “and last known living dwarf”.

Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dwarf

Now this could lead to speculation that there is the possibilty of dwarfs living deep below the surface.

rambling mode on
Now i’m going on a crazy rambling brainstorm tought, the name Ogden <bold>Stonehealer</bold> might point at the fact that he can undo the curse/blessing of being transformed into stone?
/off

Ree Soesbee basicly confirmed that all the dwarves eventually underwent the ritual. They felt compeled to apparently.

As for Ogden, I doubt his last name has that much relivance since it was his name in GW1 prior to any dwarf turning to stone. It probably was reference to the fact he was a monk and a healer. For those who dont know Ogden was a recruitable hero in Eye of the North in GW1.

Ive had a look but the issue I have is that Elonian, Canthan and Tyrian cultures are all very different. I dont see all those vary diverse cultures evolving in quite a small area of land particularly if you take into account physiological differences like skin color. There isnt anything Ive seen that suggests that Elona or Orr was a colony of Cantha. There are the Margonites too who quite possibly had a unique culture themselves.

If the humans came through the Rift from another world the place they entered Tyria could have easily have been a location in the south and spread from there particularly if the Gods were overseeing them.

I still cant help but think that the Sylvari have some connection to the Wardens from Factions. It could be these trees have been around in hidden areas for a long time. Hell Urgoz may have been an avatar/embodiment in the same way the Pale Tree has.