Just because a general doesn’t lead from the front line doesn’t make him any less the cause of your suffering. The Risen were attacking because Zhaitan was driving them to.
In general the Dragons, at least in the past, don’t seem to have thought much about the mortal races beyond them being somewhat more troublesome food. That doesn’t mean they don’t recognise us as threats, at least now, but they are primarily driven by their hunger and like a drug addict hunting for their next hit they are fixated on magical sources.
Don’t be mistaken though. The Risen attacked because Zhaitan wanted them to. The Icebrood and the Branded attack because that is what their masters want.
To add to that, there is an indication that the Sylvari aren’t based of humans and that they don’t automatically connect to the Dream. Maylik (I’m probably spelling his name wrong) was born of a different tree, had no apparent connection to the Dream, and was as human in appearance as other Sylvari.
Interestingly he was referred to as the Harbringer by the Nightmare Court so its possible still that the Nightmare is a portion of the dream effected by Mordemoth’s corruption. Dragon’s have infiltrated the Mists before and Mordemoth’s connection to minds means he might be using Sylvari minds as a back door.
Add to the fact that cutting yourself off from the Dream in fact makes you more susceptible to Mordemoth’s control.
Honestly… I think in a sense the issue comes from the human side refusing to take fault for what they’ve done. Ascalon has explicitly been stated to been taken from the Charr by force. Charr simply responded to this by invading back to reclaim their homeland. That’s what the siege of Ebonhawke is IMO… them simply trying to kick out that last pesky bit of the nation. Now there is peace forming and humanity WILL GET some of Ascalon back.
Yet that’s not enough. Most Adelbern ascalonians I see (aka most players it seems) aren’t happy at all unless the Charr just GIVE UP EVERYTHING they’ve taken back, and go back north of the wall and just throw away anything and everything they’ve worked on to ‘make it up to the humans’.
Answer me this then: Why did ANet writers decide to make Ascalon into Charr land in the first place? I mean, there are leagues and leagues of Charr territory north of the Basin, not to mention there were zero Charr ruins to be found anywhere in Ascalon. Before this game came out, just about everyone assumed, because of a plethora of in-game references, the Charr came from “north east somewhere.” Why then, was ANet so determined to kill off a human culture and claim “ancestral” ownership of the land?
Do you really believe that this was the most logical turn of events, or were there ulterior motives, non-verse related, behind it?
Honestly, with the Charr not being truly unified there is potential for the three Charr territories to play out a pretty interesting political dynamic. As I said I do like the Charr, I just dislike attempts to whitewash their very brutal past and pretty brutal current culture.
Ascalon was hardly singled out as a human culture effectively ‘killed off’. All humanity in Tyria pretty much belongs to the same culture these days and its not really a good click with any of them. If anything there are probably more Ascalon influences in modern day Kryta than their are Krytan ones.
I think your comments, for me, just go to show my point stated earlier. Humanity has been overly watered down and so naturally fans of humans in GW2 will focus on the parts in GW lore where they had a richer and more diverse culture and dynamic. Even the sense of defying and raging against the odds has been replaced by what feels like a sense of exhaustion and fatigue in the human civilisation.
We won’t get back the human kingdoms of GW1. We won’t get back the Six. So humans in GW2 need to move on and find a new direction. My biggest fear is that in HoT one of the biggest plotlines humans have being the White Mantle and the Mursaat will get whitewashed ‘cause we didn’t have the Mursaat’s point of view.’ If humanity’s role in GW2’s story is just going to be swallowing its pride and making nice with every race that screwed it over in the past I’m going to be disappointed.
Honestly… I think in a sense the issue comes from the human side refusing to take fault for what they’ve done. Ascalon has explicitly been stated to been taken from the Charr by force. Charr simply responded to this by invading back to reclaim their homeland. That’s what the siege of Ebonhawke is IMO… them simply trying to kick out that last pesky bit of the nation. Now there is peace forming and humanity WILL GET some of Ascalon back.
Yet that’s not enough. Most Adelbern ascalonians I see (aka most players it seems) aren’t happy at all unless the Charr just GIVE UP EVERYTHING they’ve taken back, and go back north of the wall and just throw away anything and everything they’ve worked on to ‘make it up to the humans’.
Ok, I had to respond to this.
Firstly, the Charr reclaiming their homeland? They only had occupied Ascalon for around one generation and they had taken the land from the native Grawl living there. The Charr warred with everybody. Even the Forgotten.
Secondly, humans had been living in Ascalon for 1000 years by the time of the ‘reclamation’. How long do you have to live in a place before you can make some claim to the land. Anyway the whole basis for the war was driven by the titans which is why they went straight through Ascalon after the Searing and attacked Orr. Was their invasion of Kryta ‘reclamation’?.
Again, Im not arguing that the humans should have Ascalon back. They couldn’t hold it even if the Charr did pull out. Kryta is struggling to hold what it has and Ebonhawke is a pipe dream.
My point earlier in the thread is that Ascalon is a focal point for human fans because it is a poster boy in GW2 for what humans have lost and really for human lore that’s the primary focus. Not where the humans are or where they are going but everything they have lost. That’s a really stark contrast to what the other races have.
Humanity needs that future, that pride. Humanity in GW2 is frankly depressing, pressed by all sides, hardly being able to hold what it had and mainly due to self destructive behaviour of its own people. The peace treaty was useful and convenient for the Charr. The humans needed it.
Humans don’t need Ascalon. They don’t need Orr (and they aren’t going to get that back either). They need to be able to move on and stop feeling like they are a race fading away. Most of the races narrative is a ‘To Tomorrow!’ narrative. Humans have the ‘Just please let me make it to the next day’ narrative. Its depressing.
I never, ever suggested the Charr instantly made nice. I simply pointed out that in the case of Ebonhawke, the charr made the first gestures of Peace and the Krytan prince ruined everything. Honestly, the way it all was described, the sieges were less of a focus of the legions and more of just something they did. Hell, we know for a fact at the cease fire being signed a human walked out of the gates with some beer, went up to the Charr, and both sides just sat down and had a kittening drink. Some mortal enemies they are if they literally can have a drink and become friends after that.
They have a statue in the BC of the first charr to ever reach the top of Ebonhawke’s walls. The siege wasn’t a joke, particularly for those inside. Again Ghost’s of Ascalon made that pretty kitten clear. Hell, even visiting the Fields of Ruin and talking to the NPCs shows how deep those hatreds run and how hard it is for them to be buried. There is a Vanguard veteran who states she doesn’t think she will ever be able to completely abandon her hate of Charr but her hope is that that hate can die with her generation.
The great irony of the acts of the Separatists and the Renagades are they give the Ebon Vanguard and the Charr as shared enemy which actually pulls the two sides closer together. Funnily enough that’s how Ryltock and Logan first started off. It was others trying to kill them that got them to stop trying to kill each other.
The Searing also is being healed and doesn’t plague the land with endless issues trying to MURDER EVERYTHING, human or Charr.
Honestly, the effects of the searing have long passed, the land is fertile and growing plants and the rivers are water, not tar. Ascalon is capable of supporting life. Meanwhile, the foefire is on the minds of everybody in Ascalon, EVERY SINGLE DAY because the ghosts are ALL OVER and CONSTANTLY ATTACKING.
And it was ironically the Ghosts that Smolder used as the core of his argument to end the war with humans. The charr didn’t need more enemies at the time.
Again, I think the Foefire was an atrocity. However considering it was a similar type of magic (ie. forbidden) that handed the Charr Ascalon in the first place, its kind of rich for them to play moral superiority.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t hate the Charr, I don’t think they should be ‘bad guys’ and I don’t think humans should be reclaiming Ascalon. I actually want to see humanity move beyond clinging to the past save maybe for the Six to have some relevance to them again. I infact LIKE the charr, warts and all. The question in this thread was what we don’t like about the charr. Ive been talking about there warts.
Yes, the charr, like every other race has those warts and a good part of them are shown in how they acted in their conquest of Ascalon. Don’t try to whitewash them. Let them wear their warts like the Asura, the Norn, and most definitely, the humans do. Hell even the Sylvari now have their warts.
Said throwing to beasts was EOTN though. This falls into the “Flame Legion lead everybody and had a stranglehold on control.” Also, as set up by the lore… Parents don’t have THAT much say in Charr upbringing. It’s not like Pyre knew dear old dad and was taught everything he knew about that. Pyre also was willing to work with humans and didn’t feel sorry.
Your basically saying that the invading charr were only Flame Legion or that only the Flame Legion participated in the atrocities. There is no evidence of that and certainly no evidence that the charr at the time gave a kitten . Charr are extremely pragmatic and extremely brutal. Ends generally justify the means as long as the ramifications don’t come back to bite you in the kitten . This is a race where a higher ranking soldier (and every charr is part of the military) can gut you for a failure and the other charr will take it as justified. Pyre was proud of his father. We know his involvement cause Pyre tells the player. Pyre was also completely unapologetic about what the charr did to the humans.
Charr have many great traits but they can be pretty bloody amoral.
Plenty of Charr in the Priory (Also there are at least three charr scholars IIRC investigating the ruins of Rin). Even then, outside of that location and BC… it’s not brought up or touched. Oldgate and IIRC, Piken Square ruins imply some Charr dislike the Flame Legion actions. I have never gotten the sense that the Flame Legion gets hero worship because of the Searing/breaking the wall.
There are a lot of charr in the Priory but almost none of them actually share their opinions on the events of the fall of Ascalon with us so we can’t speak for them.
There are some charr who reflect that what was done to humans was brutal but most don’t seem to give a kitten . Most seem more kittened they won’t stay dead. Let’s remember that general charr opinion of humans has generally been pretty low till recently.
My theory for a while now was that it was Melandru who created or repurposed the Dream and maybe even cleansed the Pale Tree’s seed.
We know Melandru went out into the world.
We know a group of worshipers moved to the area and became so devoted to nature that they literally became nature spirits.
We know the Forgotten, who were servants of the Gods and who’s magic had cleansed Glint, were in the area. A place no where near any other known settlement they had.
We know that the one Sylvari that knew of the true origin of the Sylvari, travelled to said place in her studies. We know that there was a tribe of centaur not only guarding the place but who had ties to Ventari who back in GW1 talked of a time when Centaur and Humans lived in peace. Plus Centaur practice a form of tree worship, sorta.
So my theory is that Melandru sought to protect nature from the time the Elder Dragons would rise again. To do that she called on her human and Forgotten followers. Her humans, the druids, ascended into spirit form as to help establish a spiritual ‘mist’ plane, perhaps even part of Melandru’s realm, where the spirit and minds of the natural world could be protected from the EDs corruption.
The Forgotten she intrusted to finding ways to cleanse nature of Dragon corruption. Perhaps she even found some of Mordremoth’s seeds and cleansed them. Do remember it was a human who found the Pale Tree’s seed. Perhaps that wasn’t completely accidental.
The Centaur she set up as caretakers of the forest as she and the Forgotten retreated from the world, they would tend to the works she had done, on a physical plane while the Druids tended to the spiritual.
My points for believing this are:
- the seeming connections between the centaur, the forgotten city and the Pale Tree (Season 2 Living Story).
- the fact there is a sylvari racial elite at the moment that literally summons aid from a druidic spirit.
- the fact we know Melandru went out into the world to ‘prepare it for a troubled future’ (The Scrolls on the Gods in Malchor’s Leap).
- the fact that the dream isn’t tied to the Sylvari as natural animals unrelated to the Pale Tree can have great influence over it (The White Stag Sylvari PS).
Also, the Foefire has some rather conflicting stories. From the wiki page: “The Claw clashed with Magdaer, Adelbern’s sword, and caused a spark of power that engulfed the land for leagues around. This event became known as the Foefire. The charr accounts offer an alternate version of the events. Rather than fighting to the death, his forces retreated from the city, leaving their king behind. In his rage and despair, Adelbern struck the ground with Magdaer, producing the immense burst of energy now referred to as the Foefire.”
The true version of events is the Charr version. This is confirmed in Ghosts of Ascalon.
Adelbern realised that Ascalon City was going to fall and so chose to enact a ritual that trigged the Foefire. It wasn’t on the spar of the moment either cause one of his advisors found out and tried to stop him and Adelbern murder the guy.
Fun fact, that advisor had actually warned a charr warband it was going to happen to try and stop the whole thing taking place. The Flame Legion commander didn’t believe them and had the warband tied to posts outside the city so they could watch as Ascalon city fell. They were the only charr to survive that battle and were the ones who carried the story back to the other charr.
GW1 was from the point of view of humans. We saw nothing of the Charr but as beasts. Then Anet came in, and actually provided some of the CHARR STORY that we didn’t and wouldn’t see in prophecies because of the point of view! But heaven forbid that!
While the viewpoint of the Charr wasn’t shown in GW1 till GWEN, there are certain facts that are drawn from GW1.
The Charr were genocidal to humans. Those they didn’t kill they enslaved, often working to death, sacrificing in brutal rituals and, at least in one case, threw them to beasts to be torn apart for the entertainment of watching Charr. This included children. Those aren’t view points. They are actually things we see happen in GW1.
And while the other Legions weren’t leading, they did have members involved. Pyre’s sire was one of the scouts who infiltrated Ascalon use the Grawl to set up the Searing.
Most Charr tear down ruins to try to STOP the Ascalon ghosts from continuing to form. They build around them because ruins are almost all over Ascalon. YES, some are kittening kittens about it. Honestly, the one monument in BC is the most colored viewpoint, but elsewhere the reactions seem less pronounced. I mean, I certainly got NO hero worship feelings for the flame legion leaders of that day OUTSIDE OF THAT ONE MONUMENT. Which you have Charr scholars actually going “Um, that’s a biased viewpoint. We are here to find out the truth.”
Charr scholars? It’s kind of misleading for your to say ‘ONE MONUMENT’ and then say Charr scholars as if there are a lot of them. I’ve only found one who is a priory member say that and that NPC seems to suggest that the ‘biased viewpoint’ is the popular opinion.
One of the Charr’s better traits is a general intolerance of stupidity caused by pride.
About the charr and the war… The Flame Legion was in power when Adelbern caused the foefire. After that it was purely Ebonhawke vs the legions. ALSO the fact the Iron legion was prepping TO END THE WAR. Then the humans KEPT IT GOING.
True. Of course that’s ignoring that the Charr, who had been the agressors from the start of the war, had had Ebonhawke under a siege over a 100 years by that point. Its kind of misleading to suggest that the Flame Legion was overthrown and the next day the Charr started making nice.
Also, I’d say the foefire is a direct atrocity commited toward the Charr. and humanity both. It killed every charr on that battlefield, and the ghosts continue to try to slaughter charr and anything else. Caused by Adelbern, who refused to change his ways and that literally cost him everything.
Adelbern’s attack was very much an atrocity. My point was that considering the Charr’s conquest of Ascalon was greatly facilitated by the Searing, its kind of rich of them to talk, particularly since you don’t generally see them condemning the Searing.
To be fair to Gwen, the charr were really, really bad to her and she was a child. If I remember it right, she only escaped cause they threw her into a pit to get torn apart by a beast for their entertainment of the watching charr and she managed to get past the beast and escape into the tunnels the beast came from.
I think anyone who had been through what she had would be understandable in her hate of charr. Hell, even Pyre thought her hatred was justified. It was her fear of charr he saw as her weakness.
I also wouldn’t really wouldn’t say Gwen is painted as a big shining light, at least any more than say Salma is. Gwen is really only big in Ebonhawke and most players who hadn’t played GW1 or read up on it probably wouldn’t really know who Gwen was.
Actually, I’d say it’s hard to tell if they mean the titans/destroyers, or if they mean an earlier thing. For all we know, it could be pointing more toward the Flame Legion’s rule since they mention machines of war as I recall.
Its vague but judging by general charr attitudes towards humans I doubt the idea of giving humans credit for their role in freeing the charr from their gods would be popular. Further, its worth pointing out that it was the loss of the titans that first started weakening the Flame Legions power. Humans also killed of a good portion of the Flame Legion’s leadership during Pyre’s time.
I mean, does everybody think Germany is all evil now? No. They got new leadership and direction. The Charr overthrew their old leadership, and started a new path. Why people continue to hold ALL CHARR EVERYWHERE TODAY accountable for actions made by/ordered by FLAME LEGION LEADERSHIP is what confuses me.
We are 250 years later, after a culture restructured itself and replaced it’s government. People act as if the Charr have a clean slate, but they don’t. There are references (praising and condemning) the flame legion actions during prophecies. There are LITERALLY some charr who outright state the popular charr view of the battle of Rin (where the stormcaller horn was used) isn’t accurate.
Germany doesn’t revere any of hitler’s generals for successful conquests during WW2. Germany actually has as a culture show a deal of remorse for the actions of their nation at the time. The charr do revere at least one Flame Legion general as a hero and show no remorse for what was done to the humans.
I have only ever found one charr who actually stated the popular charr view of the battle of Rin was possibly in accurate and that was born out of a pragmatism and belief in the value of truth over rhetoric rather than any respect for humans.
Also, in reply to the topic about “Human advances are not there.” Did that person miss the fact one of the KEY ELEMENTS to getting airships off the ground and working was HUMANITY? It was joint between Asura, Human, and Charr tech.
And what actual technology did they contribute? We have actually had this discussion in the Lore forums before. We are told humans contribute but can you point at any of the tech the Pact has and say ‘that was Human contribution’? You can certainly point out Sylvari, Asura and Charr contributions. They are kitten obvious. As for the norn, they at least bring their raw power and spiritual connections since the Norn’s supernatural patrons are actually still talking to them.
If there are human advances we aren’t shown them. The only advancement we have seen is the watchknights and they backfired dramatically and were reengineered tech invented by Scarlet in the first place.
Only then Ascalon was only ‘ancestral land’ because they conquered it first. The Charr were very warlike before humans ever turned up. They even wared against the Forgotten. Even then, how long do you need to hold land for it to become ancestral. The humans were their for over a thousand years.
As for humanity standing against the Charr, well that would require a civil war between the legions which is quite possible under the right circumstances. There is a reason non have tried to claim the title of Khan Ur even now that the Claw has been found. The Charr are three allied nations and one enemy nation, not one united one. If the Legions went to war against each other it would cripple them which, as stated by Jeff Grubb, is Smolder’s worst nightmare.
Also what ‘one human inventor’? We have no idea who made the Watchknights. If your talking about Uzolan, he is dead long before the Watchknights are a thing.
Your also overlooking three things.
Ebonhawke survived a 200 year siege by the Charr. It was such a tough nut to crack the charr have a statue in the Black Citadel to the charr who first got to the top of its walls.
Secondly, the technology we see the charr having is mainly the domain of the Iron Legion. The Ash and Blood still much lower tech in their own lands. Blood actually leans quite heavily on warbeasts over high tech engineering. Do remember we have only seen the Iron Legion lands which are by the nature of the Legions the heart of Charr engineering.
Thirdly, while the Charr have much better tech, humans still seem to have magical superiority still. We are still yet to see any charr magi pull of some of the feats characters like Jennah have.
However I will agree with you that Humanity seem to be the worn out old man of GW2. Certainly, humanity isn’t presented as a force that can even handle its own problems let alone go on the offensive.
Actually it’s reverse engineered human technology. Sylvari technology uses plant magic and very little metal.
Actually Watchknights were reverse engineered from the Steam creatures such as the Steam Minotaurs which where originally created by Scarlet, a Sylvari. Thus reverse engineered Sylvari technology. That was how she was able to so easily subvert the Watchknights.
You have some good points, but those are mostly issues with how Anet writes humanity, the Charr conquest of Ascalon is not part of that problem. You could argue that humanity suffered from the Worf Effect. It grew weaker in order to balance it to the new additions, especially the young Sylvari and the disjointed Norn.
Still if you have ever watched the first Rocky movie, you know that there can be somethign heroic in defeat. Humanities time at the top is simply over, it’s comparable to the elves in Tolkiens work, they are past their prime. That doesn’t mean they can’t still pack a nasty punch and they sure don’t go down without a fight. That actually gives them an interesting new character in my opinion. After all, weren’t so many people glued to the television watching Walter White struggle in Breaking Bad? They sure weren’t watching the underdog winning at the end.What I meant with the Cantha comment: There is potential to show a powerful, unrelenting portion of humanity in the future. I’m pretty sure if we ever go there, the story will be about defeating the quasi-dictatorical regime and basically give atleast one happy end to humanity.
As I stated, my core problem isn’t with the Charr conquest of Ascalon. I’m merely suggesting that it is a focal point for discontent with fans for GW humans who have a rather disappointing humanity today. Most human lore is about what they lost so naturally that loss is going to be a focus for human players. Outside of that humanity is mainly on the receiving end of a beating, including by its own people.
While there can be heroism in defeat, humanity isn’t written like that. It’s more written as the worn out burnt out race that is struggling to hold any significance on the world stage with the rising races. They were described as GW2’s elves but they lack the legacy and power the elves in Tolkien had. Humanity doesn’t kick kitten . It just survives taking a beating.
Technically I’ve gone off topic with this from the question of the thread. The only thing that puts me off with Charr is their rather arrogant hypocrisy when it comes to historical truths and their attitudes. Im not even saying humans are better, just that that is a Charr trait that I see as a negative.
What Ive gotten into here, is an underlying reason Ascalon would be a focus for fans of humans. Humanity basically won GW1 and save the world but at the cost of so much and they don’t even really get a nod for it. Of course human fans are going to be lamenting for the lost glories of humanity’s past, because the future humans seem to have is being a punching bag while being overshadowed by the new stars. And all the while we keep getting shown how great humanity once was but isn’t any more.
Consider this. The Six are supposed to be a core human theme, however does that theme mean anything positive? Its clear that to use the power of the Six you don’t need humans. Divine Fire? Nope. Using a relic of Balthazzar? Nope. Hell two of the ritualists in that scene were norn. The end result is, as I said before, the appearance of a race clinging to gods that have long since abandoned them. It actually comes off as a little pathetic.
The writers have written a humanity stuck in its past clinging to fragments of past glories.
Humanity feels kind of stuck in the past with the ghosts of its past, or at best, past its prime and looking to moving into an old folks home. Humanities theme at launch was supposed to be perseverance against adversity but it really feels like being dragged down by the ghosts of the past and taking boots to the face.
Ascalon is a focus point for that sense of loss.
To be honest, that sounds like those old british people that keep lamenting that the Empire is gone. That’s just the way it is. I don’t like new Kryta all that much either, but it’s still better than being dominated by a cult like they used to be. Similarly Ascalon is better off under Charr rule (Ebonhawke notwithstanding) than being torn to shreds by constant war.
Besides there is still a whole other continent entirely under human rule, we just have no contact right now (Cantha in case you aren’t sure, what I’m refering to). So no not all hope is lost, there is no need to clinch to the past. Humanity came back from worse, kinda like roaches always surviving. I mean technically the Charr never kicked them entirely out of Ascalon, there is still the Ebonhawke-Asterix-village situation going on. That’s an accomplishment!
Other than that I’m on board with Anets philosophy that is better to look at how even a weakend humanity can still contribute to the fight against the elder dragons, instead of focusing on a conflict with other races and how much better it used to be (pro-tip: it wasn’t!).
I don’t want to see humanity focusing on a conflict with other races or dwelling on the past. Im actually arguing that humanity is so dumbed down in GW2 that it makes that past look more attractive than what they have in modern day.
While I agree that the survival of Ebonhawke is pretty epic and think tenacity is a great attribute, it kind of comes off as humanity just constantly getting beaten up. Human tenacity really isn’t a trait that makes it stand out. Charr, Asura and Norn all have examples of survival against brutal odds.
The difference is that while the other races seem to actually be effectively fighting back, humanity seems to be in a defensive huddle just surviving taking hits. It hasn’t really successfully made any solid inroads into any of the threats applied to it.
My key point is fans of the humans in GW2 dwell on the past because humanity these days seems to be diminishing and the themes that once defined it have become empty. Player aren’t going to move on because most of what we have been shown of humanity is its losses rather than how it is growing and adapting to a new world. The writers have effectively left humans thematically stuck in a past that no longer seems to hold any relevance.
On the point of Cantha, I would argue that firstly we have no idea of what state it is in and secondly, last we heard it was under an oppressive tyranny. Hardly an inspiring place to look for signs of human endurance in the modern GW2 world.
For my part, I think the main reason most human players who feel a deep connection to Ascalon are quickly angered by what GW did is because the game isn’t human-centric anymore (which is a good thing, because the fact that GW first of its name was human-only weakened the whole thing, and is the main reason I’ve never truly played it, even if I have Prophecies and GWEN)
I think part of the problem is how humans are portrayed in GW2. While the game shouldn’t be human centric, it feels very much like they overcompensated to the point that lore wise humans really are at the bottom of the pile.
Human lore in GW2 shows mainly what they have lost, and how they are struggling. Humanity spends most of its story time getting kicked in the face. While a human theme was supposed to be tenacity in the face of adversity, its come more across as humans being like the guy who is past his prime and struggling to hold his own. While the other races are growing in strength and looking to the future.
The one major work of human ingenuity, the watch knights, turned out to be reverse engineered Sylvari technology and blew up in the Humans faces spectacularly. If your not playing a human the solution to the crisis didn’t even evolve human help unless you count Faren in his underwear.
Worse, the themes humans did have, have been made redundant or severely watered down. Charr have three easy to identify and distinct Legions. Divinity’s Reach is supposed to be a melting pot of Ascalonian, Krytan, Elonian and Canthan cultures but save for a bit of architecture and a couple of lines from NPCs we see nothing for Elonian or Canthan culture.
Human religion is also pretty much a joke. Once billed as a core part of their character, human devotion to Six seems more like a bunch of people clinging to a set of gods who have abandoned them. Humanity’s theme of being the ‘chosen’ of the six holds no relevance. When we have seen such things come up in game human involvement has been seemingly unnecessary.
Ascalon represents a better time. Humanity in GW2 seems so watered down and weak its no wonder people would obsess over a more glorious past. Hell, if we end up befriending the Mursaat next expac that’s just going to make it worse.
Humanity needs a future in the game, either by bringing back some semblance of past glory or giving some sense of hope for the future.
I’d also point out to people who argue it was 200 year prior and humans should get over it, the Charr were first driven out 900 years prior to the Searing.
What false claims are those? The ones about taking the land back? They admit in game that one of their heroes was Bonfaaz Burntfur. Id say thats giving credit to the flame legion, the ones responsible for it.
I mentioned them above but:
1. Identifying with a member of a group they at the same time hold with contempt and hatred. Its kind of taking it both ways. They ridicule and despise the flame legion but hold claim one of their historic members and someone who was one of these oppressors as a hero.
2. Killing their gods. That was the humans who did that. Humans took down the ones who came through the gate of Kormali. Humans who shut down the place where they were being created. The humans killed the Charr gods.
3. The start of their revolution to throw of the shackles of Flame Legion Oppression was enabled by humans killing many leading shamans at the time and humans freeing Pyre and his Warband. This was the very starting point of the revolution. Its ironic that Gwen Goremonger who is hated and feared by the Charr was also instrumental in freeing them from Flame Legion chains.
False strength by claiming achievement from individuals they either distanced themselves from in any other circumstances or taking credit for things they didn’t do, at least on their own.
And it was that strength of arms that helped to take the land back. Ill give this to the Ascalnions, they always inspire my characters. Every. Single. One. of my charr share the same sense of praise for what the managed to do. Holding off the Charr for so long, by themselves. They also share the same hatred of one single person. King Adelbern, they all think he is a coward, they do not say the same about his Son Prince Rurik. They also do not hate the foefire ghosts, because honestly, they didnt do anything, it was their king who made them that way.(Yes i RP them that way. with all the knowledge the priory has the truth about what really happened 250 years ago should be known by now.)
The charr invaded Ascalon in force after a WMD magic had been dropped on it. Without that its very likely the war would have gone a very different way. While strength of arms was used it was at a greatly weakened enemy. Even then the humans held out for years.
And while your character holds some regards for humans, most Charr NPCs in game, particularly those living in Charr territory, hold humans in contempt. What respect is shown is often grudging. There is a reason humans are so often referred to as mice. Many charr also see the foe fire as robing them of their total victory rather than what it did to the humans.
Again, it only “looks silly” to the uninvolved.
Which is exactly what I’m talking about, as GW2 players are uninvolved. My statement had nothing to do with how the NPCs must feel in-universe. To make it clear: I think players being upset about the Searing or the aftermath are acting a bit silly.
Players, particularly human fans, get constant reminders in game on how far humanity has fallen and lost and how much the Charr played a part in that. Its kind of compounded by the fact that humanity hasn’t just lost ground but in modern Tyria feels like its taken a back seat.
Orr is a fine example. All Orr showed of humanity is how much it had lost. Human involvement in the story tended to rely on the expertise of other races. Hell, even the PS step involving a Priestess of Grenth required a Asura to show her how to do the proper ritual.
Humanity feels kind of stuck in the past with the ghosts of its past, or at best, past its prime and looking to moving into an old folks home. Humanities theme at launch was supposed to be perseverance against adversity but it really feels like being dragged down by the ghosts of the past and taking boots to the face.
Ascalon is a focus point for that sense of loss.
Ive never liked the Ascalonians, even in the first game, they always seemed to deserve getting pushed out of “their” land. they invaded and pushed the tribal charr out, thats fine, but the charr came back, better than before and took back their original land(With the help of flame legion magic, NPC in the black citadel near the stormcaller horn has a dialogue speech about it) I see nothing wrong with that.
Just to give fair context, it would be like the native Americans creating their own nation, dropping WMDs all over America and driving the Americans out with a genocidal war full of brutal atrocities. Just look at Gwen’s story. Modern Charr might see her as a monster but if she was one, it was one of their own creation.
That’s going to leave major hatreds. Ascalon had been their for 900 years and it was land the Charr had conquered originally from the Grawl anyway. Claim to that land was purely by strength of arms.
Again, its mainly about the Charr taking credit for things they didn’t do. Its not about admitting weakness as much as false claims to strength.
Purely for me, my lingering dislike for the Charr is a certain hypocrisy they seem to have.
They take credit for victory over the humans while ignoring that it was the magics of the Flame Legion, who they hold in contempt, which enabled their victory by crippling Ascalon with the Searing.
They see no real issue with the use of the Searing on the humans but get upset over the humans use of the Foefire on them.
They claim to have killed their gods when it was again humans who did that.
Hell, one of the key figures in the start of the Charr throwing off the yoke of the Flame Legion was infact saved by humans, as was his warband, from Flame Legion cages.
It is ironic that the Charr actually owe a lot of their success to others they look at with contempt.
This isn’t to say I hate Charr, but they do come across as a little full of it.
Well the Mursaat didn’t give up on Kryta after the Door was sealed. It required a Civil War to drive them out.
It could be these are a different group of Mursaat to those involved with the White Mantle but the other things we know about their race hardly present a good picture. They abandoned the other races during the last dragon cycle. They warred on and wiped out the Seers and even if this group aren’t linked to the White Mantle there is no sign that they have done anything to stop the damage done by their kin or their kin’s servants.
Evidence points to a group which would be hard to trust.
It’s an interesting philosophical question which the Queen might regard as having done more damage. The charr did more damage to Tyrian humanity as a whole by far, but when it comes to Kryta specifically… that’s a little more questionable. We don’t have any exact figures on who has died in the Krytan civil was as opposed to the charr attack on Kryta, and most of the human-charr wars since have taken place in Ascalon, without any effect on Kryta except for the deaths of people sent there. Meanwhile, from the Shining Blade’s perspective, White Mantle meddling has almost certainly done much more direct damage to Kryta than anything the charr have done.
There’s also the element that the charr never made any bones about their position regarding humans – they were always at war, the only surprise was that the charr had been losing for over a thousand years until they found something to turn that around. So when the charr decide it’s worth being friendly instead, it’s worth trying a ‘trust, but verify’ approach. The mursaat, on the other hand, have a track record of being frenemies.
Heh. A good enemy is better than a traitorous friend? Makes sense though.
It’s an interesting philosophical question which the Queen might regard as having done more damage. The charr did more damage to Tyrian humanity as a whole by far, but when it comes to Kryta specifically… that’s a little more questionable. We don’t have any exact figures on who has died in the Krytan civil was as opposed to the charr attack on Kryta, and most of the human-charr wars since have taken place in Ascalon, without any effect on Kryta except for the deaths of people sent there. Meanwhile, from the Shining Blade’s perspective, White Mantle meddling has almost certainly done much more direct damage to Kryta than anything the charr have done.
There’s also the element that the charr never made any bones about their position regarding humans – they were always at war, the only surprise was that the charr had been losing for over a thousand years until they found something to turn that around. So when the charr decide it’s worth being friendly instead, it’s worth trying a ‘trust, but verify’ approach. The mursaat, on the other hand, have a track record of being frenemies.
Charr didn’t do huge damage to humanity because, the Mursaat defeated them and saved Kryta. The Mursaat didn’t want to destroy Kryta, the Charr wanted to.
The Mursaat instead wanted it as a toy or tool. Your comparing a Slaver to a murderer. One kills you and the other robs you of your freedom and rights. Human life had no value to the Mursaat save as a resource to use. I don’t consider that much better myself.
Perhaps they are just wearing full body armor. The main difference we see from the old Mursaat is this lot aren’t showing skin. Glowy armor would hardly be unique to the Mursaat.
I have a feeling that there’s a lot more to separate the Pale Tree from Mordremoth than just upbringing. Consider we have a tribe of centaur connected to Ventari guarding a cave sealed with forgotten magic and in some why its linked to the Sylvari.
Lets add to that. Forgotten served the Gods, and the local humans in the area became druids, the spirit of whom a sylvari player can summon with their elite racial skill.
I think Melandru was involved. It would fit. The Gods knew about the EDs and Melandru would have cared a lot about the damage Mordremoth would do. Plus we know from the scrolls in Orr she went out to prepare the world for a troubled future. Its why she pops up in the myths and religions of even the Charr and the Quaggen.
Perhaps knowing the Forgotten’s ability to purify corruption Melandru arranged just that. Pale Tree seeds to be purified. Perhaps the real reason the Druids became spirits was to create a basis for the Dream or perhaps to act as wards or guardians for it. We know the Dream extends beyond sylvari as we have animals unconnected to the Pale Tree which influence the Dream and are tied to it.
It doesn’t matter, they help saved humanity. No matter their goal is noble or not, the humans own them a great favor when the Five Gods chose to do nothing, when the king of Kryta chose to abandon his people and run away. Nobody blamed the gods or the kings but the Mursaat simply because their goal wasn’t noble? So if they chose to do nothing like the Five Gods they wouldn’t be blamed for? But then we probably wouldn’t even be able to play humans in GW2 because all three kingdoms were destroyed.
Even the PC character, who had fought them throughout the story, said
I did what everyone asked of me. I opened the Door of Komalie but to my dismay I learned that the door held back the evil titans and the Mursaat were actually attempting to protect the world from their wrath.
I don’t think they should be called psychopathic murderers, they didn’t enjoy kill, it’s not their goal. They never planned to kill everyone as well, most of their murders-the Chosen, were killed to prevent the world being ravaged by the Titans, or worse, Abaddon.
Even if we look at the killing of Saul’s buddies
Saul D’Alessio: “Friends, the time of retribution is at hand. We must pray to our gods. They will decide whether we live or die.”
Saul chose to call them and let them decide the fate of his men, also they would all be killed if the Mursaat hadn’t helped.
I never played that PS line so I can’t say much.
White Mantle are bullies, but it doesn’t mean they couldn’t be allies, and they don’t represent the Mursaat. I also pointed the difference between the Mursaat and the Titans already.
1. GW1 and 2 have gone somewhat into detail about why they don’t directly interfere directly. Simply, they seem to cause as many problems solve when they do. As for wether humanity would have survived, that’s up for debate. Ebonhawke survived 200 years of siege and the humans spread all the way to the Maguuma in GW1. They likely would have lost Kryta but I doubt they would have been wiped out except by Abaddon.
By the same logic every race in Tyria owes humanity a tone, particularly the Charr. Without human aid the Charr rebellion wouldn’t have even started. Humanity has saved the world several times now.
1. A psychopathic murderer doesn’t necessarily enjoy killing. He just has no sense of empathy with the victim or sense of remorse. The kill just doesn’t register as a bad thing save for the repercussions to himself. By that definition the Mursaat fit a psychopathic killer to a tee.
Also the Chosen were specifically targeted because of their potential as Ascended. They were killing off potential threats as well as using their souls as fuel. As for Saul’s armies, you might note that Saul was horrified at what the Mursaat did to the human army. Their only reason for doing it was so that there were no witnesses. Its not like it was necessary for them to win. They also used Spectral Agony, a particularly painful way to die.
3. If you played anything at any point which had to do with the bandits in Kryta, you were dealing with plot tied to the White Mantle. The bandits are a front for the White Mantle. They are even aiding the Centaur in their attacks on human lands.
I’d call the Mursaat more than bullies. However I agree that I can see a scenario where they are allies of convenience. My concern is how it is presented and how that reflects on humans. Humanity has kind of been presented in a rather underwhelming and rather lame fashion in GW2. Their lore usually involves taking hits or being shown how far they have fallen. I don’t like the idea of a scenario where people are inclined to sympathise with the Mursaat because it will make humanity look bad and its been made to look bad enough.
We know very little about the Mursaat except that they have screwed over every ally they have ever had and their minions are to this day making a wreck of Kryta.
Your very forgiving of the Mursaat. What they were doing doesn’t make any of the things they did any less self serving and ruthless. Being protected by a psychopathic murderer doesn’t make them less of a psychopathic murderer and doesn’t excuse them torturing and killing your people as the ‘price’, especially when the only reason they are doing it is to protect themselves. Note, that price includes the mess Kryta is in right now as the White Mantle is still a major threat.
Humanity as been seen at least to show some respect and compassion for other races. The Mursaat never have.
They did save the majority of Krytan’s lives, this was a GREAT contribution to humanity when Ascalon was hopeless to save and Orr was completely destroyed, that was humanity’s worst time. Even some of their crimes were for a “greater good”, it’s not like the Titans would only kill them but spare the humans. If the Door was not sealed, not just more Titans would have come out, but their master Abaddon might be freed earlier.
Their methods were cruel but their goal was not destruction, that is a major difference between the Musaat and most of the other villains. It’s their mean, not their end, thus they could be allies, just not friends. And I’m not talking about GW humans, but real life humans.
Remember the Charr were 100% villains before Nightfall and caused much more harm than the Musaat against humanity, now they are humans’ allies and a playable race.
1. There actions were entirely self interest, not greater good. If they did a greater good it was purely coincidental. They have abandoned everyone else to die when they felt safe doing so. They did during the last rise of the EDs. If it was just for greater good why did the not just up and leave as soon as the titan threat was resolved? Why did they continue to try and oppress humanity and prop themselves up as false gods?
2. As I said:
" Being protected by a psychopathic murderer doesn’t make them less of a psychopathic murderer and doesn’t excuse them torturing and killing your people as the ‘price’, especially when the only reason they are doing it is to protect themselves. "
Again, its contextually like having the Charr having to ally with the Titans. My primary issue isn’t the Mursaat themselves but how this reflects on humanity who the Mursaat are a major plot part of. Literally the first 20 levels of the PS is tied to the Bandits, therefore the White Mantle, therefore the Mursaat.
3. While this is true there was plenty of lead in and support lore wise to allow for the change of position for the Charr. As recent as the last couple of Living World updates we see the White Mantle still portrayed in a very negative light which reflects on the Mursaat. In addition everything shown in GW2 about the Mursaat only reinforces the negative view of the Mursaat we got in GW1.
I do see an irony in after all the Charr’s talk of contempt of false gods, chosing to ally with a group of them.
The thing with the Mursaat bothers me and not only cause they were great villains and everything we have learned about them so far suggests they were a selfish and ruthless race. Even saving Kryta was entirely for the sake of self preservation. Do remember they slaughtered almost the entire human army as well after they had won the victory over the Charr.
The core reason relates to humans and more specifically the issues with the White Mantle. The White Mantle/Bandits are effectively the Inquest or Flame Legion of the human race. The Mursaat were the patrons and leaders of that cult. The last one we knew about swore vengeance on the humans. They are one of the core reasons humanity has been on the decline for so kitten long.
Having the Mursaat as allies without one hell of a good build up and explanation is kind of like having Charr ally with Titans. My biggest concern is its going to end up at the determent of the humans who as a playable race have kind of gotten the short end of the stick in lore already in GW2. For most players, particularly those who haven’t played GW1, making the Mursaat sympathetic will make the humans, who see the Mursaat staunchly as enemies, look bad regardless of the reality of their history.
The Titans were Abaddon’s minions, they want to take revenge on the mortals and make the world suffer.
Mursaat is very different, they mostly want to avoid the prophecy and survive, and they did help the humans with a price and help guard the world. They aren’t much different than humans, just they thought they are “higher beings” towards the humans.
We know very little about the Mursaat except that they have screwed over every ally they have ever had and their minions are to this day making a wreck of Kryta.
Your very forgiving of the Mursaat. What they were doing doesn’t make any of the things they did any less self serving and ruthless. Being protected by a psychopathic murderer doesn’t make them less of a psychopathic murderer and doesn’t excuse them torturing and killing your people as the ‘price’, especially when the only reason they are doing it is to protect themselves. Note, that price includes the mess Kryta is in right now as the White Mantle is still a major threat.
Humanity as been seen at least to show some respect and compassion for other races. The Mursaat never have.
Everthing we have seen of the Mursaat paints them as self serving at the expanse of anyone and everyone else.
People seem to be glossing over a lot of details. The Mursaat were keeping the door close true, but because the prophecy stated that the Titans would annihilate the Mursaat. They were also doing it by sacrificing anyone among the humans who could be a potential threat to them by trapping their souls in batteries and using them as fuel which drove the spirits insane.
Add to that that they were Tyrants. Their White Mantle servants were far from benevolent behind the façade and even after the Titan threat was removed the Mursaat continued to try and oppress the humans of Kryta. Even now the White Mantle causes major problems for humanity.
They saved Kryta, its true. They also killed almost all the humans defending Kryta during that battle after the battle had been won and the humans were cheering for them. Only there most devout were spared.
Short story, the Mursaat have in the past and now been portrayed as ruthless and self serving at the expanse of everyone else. Wether that is evil or not depends on your definition.
However the humans allying with the Mursaat would be kind of like the Charr allying with the Titans. False gods that won major victories for the race but oppressed and mistreated them until overthrown and left behind a cult that harasses the race to this day.
The thing with the Mursaat bothers me and not only cause they were great villains and everything we have learned about them so far suggests they were a selfish and ruthless race. Even saving Kryta was entirely for the sake of self preservation. Do remember they slaughtered almost the entire human army as well after they had won the victory over the Charr.
The core reason relates to humans and more specifically the issues with the White Mantle. The White Mantle/Bandits are effectively the Inquest or Flame Legion of the human race. The Mursaat were the patrons and leaders of that cult. The last one we knew about swore vengeance on the humans. They are one of the core reasons humanity has been on the decline for so kitten long.
Having the Mursaat as allies without one hell of a good build up and explanation is kind of like having Charr ally with Titans. My biggest concern is its going to end up at the determent of the humans who as a playable race have kind of gotten the short end of the stick in lore already in GW2. For most players, particularly those who haven’t played GW1, making the Mursaat sympathetic will make the humans, who see the Mursaat staunchly as enemies, look bad regardless of the reality of their history.
While we are referencing books, its worth noting the one written by the Apostate also found in the Priory Vault. He describes a model of the world very similar to the vision we saw in Omadd’s machine.
Seeing as this is the same margonite that first informed us that Abaddon’s divinity could be inherited and that Abaddon likely inherited it from some other being at some point in the past, combined with what we saw of Kormir’s ascension, I’d say that the Gods are simply magically powerful individuals but individuals empowered by an inherited divinity that is tied to the very nature of the universe.
Of course, definition of what a god is matters in this but they seem more than just really powerful individuals. In a sense you could say they are aspects of the world. It is the mantle of godhood itself that makes them divine.
This raises another possibility to the gods absence. There very presence on Tyria could have a destabilising effect on the magical balance of the world at this point.
Any heir who replaces Jennah would be in as bad a situation as Jennah is if not worse, unless the Ministry was seriously curtailed. Jennah isn’t a weak queen because she lacks ability, will or intellect. She is weak because she came to the throne as a child and the Ministry had years while acting as her regent to consolidate their control and weaken the position of the Throne.
The most likely next in line to rule would actually be Caudecus. People in DR even talk about how he would be a good king.
To be perfectly honest, I really hope Jennah doesn’t die cause frankly the humans have had it bad enough as it is without being totally gutted politically and potentially dragged through a civil war or worse, ending up in the ministrations of the White Mantle again.
As for the artefact that shows an heir to Kryta’s throne, it has potentially another plot device value. If such magic could be used to find the heir to one royal bloodline, it potentially could be used to find the heir to another if repurposed. Such as the heir to Ascalon. Rytlock’s ritual failed and the most obvious reason would be that the crown was made for the royal line of Ascalon.
I think the most likely thing with Caithe is that she and her lover discovered the existence of the dragon while exploring Tyria. That’s the secret Caithe has. She has already come face to face with the existence of Mordremoth. Caithe turned away from its whispers. Faolain did not.
There are hints here. Caithe’s views on nightmare courtiers. Scarlet’s comments on understanding the deal with Faolain and Caithe in ‘What Scarlet saw’.
As for why she didn’t tell us about Mordremoth, the same question can be asked on why the Pale Tree was silent for so long. The obvious answer is that they are both afraid of what the impact the knowledge of the Dragon and how it corrupts Sylvari will have once its known publically, both on the Sylvari themselves and on how the other races treat them.
True. Its been a long time since I did the Ossuary mission so I don’t remember the details well. The Urns do pretty much explain that its basically a place for pumping out minions wholesale as fast as possible. Kind of makes sense. Why waste time raising corpses individually when you can use a site of concentrated corruption to do it in large groups.
I got the distinct impression from the lead in mission questions that the Ossuary is used to create abominations. In fact he says ‘corpses go in, abominations come out’. He also refers to Zhaitan’s strongest monstrosities.
To be honest, it’s not very clear. What we really get from the missions is that Zhaitan is having to import corpses since everything in Orr is already fighting.
Ventari’s tablet is just a rock Ventari carved his life lessons on or rather it sounds like, old centaur teachings, long abandoned by the other tribes.
I suspect what is shielding the Pale Tree and the Sylvari is the Pale Tree itself.
There are several pieces of this puzzle left unknown.
What is Glint’s legacy? Its seems quite possible that Glint knew she would die. She was an oracle. It would strike me as likely that she would have prepared for her inevitable death. More over she would have known the nature of the Elder Dragons and knew that simply killing them might not have been a permanent solution.
What connections do the Druids have with the Sylvari? We have hints at links between the Druids and Sylvari but we don’t know in what way. Druids are likely to come into the story at some point this season, having lived in the Maguuma. This also offers a chance for Melandru to have had some influence on this.
Finally, why does the Pale Tree have a connection to the Dream and other trees like her don’t. Or do they? We know there are other Trees out there. Are they already corrupted or are they resisting too? If not, what makes the Pale Tree special?
How would Jennah dying cause the rest to all in line?
My guess is the Leader mentioned is the Pale Tree. She dies and likely the protection the Sylvari have against Mordremoth’s corruption vanishes. Remember the drawings of a vine choking the Pale Tree?
My guess on the Leader Mordremoth wants dead is the Pale Tree itself. The Leader falls and the rest fall in line. My guess is that the Pale Tree is the only thing keeping Mordremoth from corrupting the Sylvari wholesale.
Interestingly, it seems Mordremoth’s attacks on Fort Salma and Concordia had more to do with magical artifacts stored there rather than some tactical move. At Fort Salma he was after the Krait artifacts and in Concordia, after the Priory artifacts stored there. The mention of the locket I suspect is a seed for later content.
Interesting note, there was a book next to the Hologram console that theorised on ghosts being magical energy constructs. Might be the basis for the holographic minions Scarlet used. Basically, artificial ghosts.
Its possible the Lionguard and the Seraph did try chopping down the vines but the kitten things just grew right back. They seem to be spreading very rapidly so I could easily see the Lionguard cutting down one vine only to have another one sprouting 5 minutes later.
Its also likely that most people experiencing the vines have no idea its part of a larger problem. Some crazy exotic plant that is drawn towards waypoints for some reason that somehow got spread from some smuggler’s cargo during the Scarlet events. The Vines seem mostly passive to observers outside Dry Top so most groups would probably be seeing them more as a nuisance than an actual threat.
It does go to show though that in a fantasy world being overly paranoid does pay off.:P
Its worth mentioning that even if the Pact isn’t moving against another ED right now and even if Orr is now under control, it doesn’t mean they have any shortage of other fronts to be combating Dragon minions since both the Brand and Jormag’s minions in the north are both very active. They would also, in addition to rebuilding their forces, probably be deploying a lot of resources into researching more info on the other Dragons and potentially scouting the areas around which the other EDs were last seen.
It seems extremely unlikely to me that they are just lounging around Fort Trinity. If anything, its probably safe to say that the role of maintain the home front was left to the PCs, who are effectively on leave until the next campaign, and the rest of the other Orders that comprise the Pact. Its not like the Vigil, the Durmond Priory or the Order of Whispers have all their strength invested in the Pact.
I got the impression the Xunlai were still around as a financial institution. There was dialog in LA where two asura discussed borrowing from the Xunlai for their project if I remember right. Seems unlikely they are going to just completely remove all reference of the Canthan groups.
Its worth noting that the Zaishen are a different beast in GW2 from what info we do have on them. Their less religiously focused and inclusive of fighting ideologies and spirit of other races such as the Norn and the Charr.
I considered this but it doesn’t quite sit right with me. Livia never had Anise’s personality. Anise has a swagger to her while Livia was very reserved and straight to business. I think its more likely that Anise is a protégé of Livia’s, perhaps acting as head of the Shining Blade in Livia’s stead. We really don’t know what happened to Livia in the last 70 years but we do know the White Mantle have been active enough to be killing off agents of Kryta’s royalty from the PS.
With out a doubt though, Livia is insanely strong. She is well known around Kryta at least back when LA was rebuilt and we got to see a display of her power during Sea of Sorrows when the Risen trying to climb onto the ship she is on disintegrated to mush the moment they touched the hull.
I disagree with that. Europe is a prime example, not to mention Asia. Those states have largely retained their cultural uniqueness for over a thousand years, whether in war or peace. Granted that uniqueness is slipping a little more every day, but it’s no where near becoming marginalized yet. And it’s a good thing, too. Losing that heritage to homogenization would not only be unfortunate, but diluting to humanity.
I’m referring to a world like Tyria where all the races get along without any problems create a perfect mechanism by which ideas and believes can be shared and adopted, thus leading to homogenization.
Also… not so sure Europe get’s along all that well with… well Europe. I also can think of a couple of Asian countries that really really don’t like each other. I might be wrong on both account… I’m very far from Eurasia, so my perspective is different.
This may be true but the main homogenization is in areas such as LA. In the racial heartlands you see much less of it. Not that celebrations like Mad King’s Day isn’t celebrated in Hoelbrak or the Black Citadel.
In areas like LA, racial homogenization would happen and be quite visable. In organisations like the Orders, the Order’s cultural tendancies would override cultural differences for the sake of unity. In these cases, it would be necessary to create harmonious social interactions.
I don’t think if you look at the heartlands of the races you’ll find things as bad as they may seem. Its just we have been hanging out in LA most of the time recently.
I’d say Quaggan are in the worst shape, though their issue isn’t physical weakness but a culturally ingrained victim complex. The Quaggan’s problem isn’t that they cant fight but that they are afraid of fighting cause they are afraid of beserking. The shame of that is so ingrained it overrides their desire to survive and so they look to others to protect them or try and run away.
Physically Quaggan are probably quite strong. Just look at how ripped a beserking Quaggan is. Sure, they have a fat appearance but that is common among sea creatures for warmth. Just look at sea lions.
I think a benevolent ED would be a fascinating spin on the ED’s story and could potentially be an unlock to their history, nature and even why they are so destructive. Just because they lay waste to the world every cycle doesn’t mean that was always the case. Something could have happened long, long ago that triggered this destructive behaviour. After all, the EDs are practically sentient forces of nature.
Hell, if we still have a tyrant ruling Cantha we could have a story that actually involves saving an ED. That would be crazy. Imagine if the Emperor of Cantha knew the location of the sleeping dragon and nature and after the Empire unified chose to start syphoning off its power, perhaps through some old Forgotten ritual or something. We could then end up fighting against a empowered tyrant to free Cantha and the ED.
The issue with everything being zerker in PvE is two fold.
Firstly, it limits playstyle, when Arenanet, themselves during the development of the game stated that they wanted diverse playstyles supported. This means its unintentional and doesn’t fit with the overall game design.
Secondly, it makes the vast bulk of items in the game pointless. They might as well just delete any PvE resource that offers anything except max DPS stats as it is unrewarding for players who understand the meta and potentially leads players who are unware of the meta to make costly and wasteful investments in gear that effectively makes them a burden to their groups.
In short, the current set up is broken.
However nerfing Beserker alone wont fix it. Frankly the nerf is probably unnecessary. What is needed is a change in how buffs and therefore support works and how damage is done in encounters. A support class needs to offer their allies the chance at higher DPS either through mitigation of boss mechanics to allow more dps uptime (healable damage that cant be self healed) or scalable buffs so the buffs from a support traited and geared player are strong enough to offset the loss of dps support classes suffer.
Regardless, I’m doubtful the current changes will be effective simply because the playstyle will still offer nothing that isn’t effectively a ‘third wheel’ and completely unnecessary in most encounters.
There is a lot of details here we don’t know enough. The Dream, and the Sylvari’s connection to it, is still very much a mystery. We don’t even know for certain if the Sylvari are connected directly to the dream or its through their connection to the Pale Tree that they can access the dream. Perhaps Malyck did was once connected to the tree and his tree was killed, severing his connection.
I think that the Sylvari’s ‘immunity’ to corruption is either due to their connection to the Dream or simply their physical biology. Modremoth is likely effecting the dream and he can corrupt plant life so I suspect that immunity won’t count for much against him.
Personally I think it’s far more likely that the Sylvari are the product of the Druids, perhaps as a why to ‘arm’ nature and the Dream against the reawakening of Modremoth. It would explain why the Sylvari are humanoid, their location and why a sylvari PC has the ability to summon a Druid Spirit as a elite racial skill.
I cant remember where but I remember a passing comment that the prevailing wind direction had shifted and was now blowing the miasma out to sea whenever they tried to deploy it. That basically gave us a window of opportunity while their weapon was rendered weak to counter attack and take them out.
Lore wise you could argue that’s why we see Alliance leaders on the battlefield now since they are having to resort to a conventional fight against the Lionguard and the Orders. One of Scarlet’s comments on the Breachmaker during the Holo fight indicates that they are getting pressed.
Just throwing this out there, but its quite possible, particularly if Modremoth is linked to the Dream, that it wasn’t Modremoth who possessed Scarlet but a Champion of Mordremoth. Most other EDs had a dragon to pave the way save for Zhaitan and he may have for all we know. After all Orr was under the waves, cursed and already a source of undead.
The Nightmare could easily be the work of some previously dormant champion or perhaps a corrupted ‘Pale Tree’. We see Sons of Svanir use a Havroun to gain access to the Mists. Perhaps Modremoth or one of his minions could have corrupted one of the Pale Tree’s siblings to gain access to the Dream in a similar fashion.
Scarlet, in the end, was a puppet. We still have much to learn about the puppet master.
I don’t think simply dismissing Scarlet as filler is exactly fair. That would be like saying Svanir and the Great Destroyer were just filler. While technically you could say its true it doesn’t mean their role in the story should be looked down on or dismissed.
I think Scarlet was badly presented but conceptually could have worked fine as a villain. The flaw was almost totally in presentation and in game explanation.
One way or the other, I suspect we will get answers to some of the mysteries surrounding the Pale Tree and the Sylvari over the next year.
Its worth pointing out that the Pact might not be directly involved save for the player character. The orders supply forces and resources for the Pact but are still independent bodies. The pact is more like a joint task force than the three orders completely merged.
That said, the orders seem to be collaborating even though they don’t seem to be directly working together. However it seems likely that actual Pact forces are still focused on pacification of Orr, limiting Jormag’s influence in the north and continued research into the nature of the EDs.
The Nightmare Court would ally with Scarlet cause what she is doing is their thing to a tee.
The Krait were top of the food chain in the same way humans are. Krait were a society and if they wanted to they could have slaughtered the dinosaurs or other large predators. They were top dog until an elder dragon came along and utterly kicked their kitten.
The Krait are a theocratic society. There religion is central to all they do. Scarlet turns up and offers them the equivalent of fragments of a relic which would cause the second coming. That’s huge for them. They may hate Scarlet but what she offers them is too good to pass up.
And no one would be better off allying with a Elder Dragon.
That isn’t enough information in regard to why would the Nightmare Court would work with Scarlet in the first place, or with the Krait for that matter. I am quite aware that they are two timing back stabbers from the explorable of TA, but I can’t picture them working for someone like Scarlet, who treated her employees like crap.
They could but seeing that the land was heavily dominated by T-rexs, Riders, Undead, Humans, and other jungle monstrosity, that wasn’t the case at all. If we’re talking underwater, I am placing my bets on the Largos for being top dog underwater. We seem them as assassin of the sea and they are the closing thing to being a humanoid.
I could picture a few selected Krait going zealous for the relic, but based on what the game shown up in the Nightmare update, it tells us that ALL kraits are willing to deal with Scarlet and that is a pretty big no-no on my account. I still wouldn’t believe they would follow her for this long right after we kill their prophet.
And I would think otherwise with the Elder Dragon. Each and every one of those dragons seem to hate each other and the krait could just use them (or have themselves being corrupted) with one of the Elder Dragon to get Bubbles out of the water. Its a much more straight forward approach, if you ask me.
Its true we don’t know all the details. Frankly it could be as simple as the fact that Scarlet is causing large scale suffering and death and they love that stuff. Alternately, depending on how much you buy into the Mordremoth theories and the dream, the voice in Scarlet’s head could easily be linked to the Nightmare itself. That would draw the Nightmare Court like flies. The point is its an easy alliance to explain, particularly since the Nightmare Court treats each other like dirt all the time.
There is nothing at all indicating that the Largos were ‘top dog’ in the oceans and their humanoid form would be as much a hindrance as a benefit below water. We know that the Krait were a powerful race that dominated their territories. A powerful nation that arrives on land isn’t going to be any more thrown by large predators or other races than, say, the Charr would have been. The Krait have always been powerful spellcasters, strong warriors and extremely adaptable to their surroundings.
Even if the prophet was false, the Obelisk shards are real. You need to remember Krait are religious zealots. Its the core of their society. Its why they do all the things they do. Obelisk shards are central to that, and while Scarlet can potentially offer them access to more, it would be stupid for them to stop.
We also aren’t dealing with all Krait. If we were we would probably be in a lot more trouble.
As for the Elder Dragons, name one group that has actually successfully allied with an Elder Dragon? Not the Sons of Svanir. They are servants and cultist, not allies, and all end up as corrupted minions in the end anyway.
Mortals are dirt to Elder Dragons. They aren’t interested in allies. Even ‘using’ dragon stuff has almost universally backfired on people who try. Trying to ally with and ED would just get the Krait, and anyone else who tried, killed. Might as well try and ally with a volcanic eruption.