If you’re not using staff to stay alive you’re probably using lots of stealth instead. These people who call staff a crutch probably don’t realize that’s what they’re doing most of the time, hence the popularity of GS / Sw + T shatter and PU power builds.
I’ll try to be constructive, because I like watching good vids and I’d like to see more. First I can second what the above person said: I didn’t make it through the video, but not just because of the use of moa. I think moa getting used in a 1v1 just isn’t fun to watch, and really it’s like if you can’t win a 1v1 using moa you must be just abjectly terrible, so just go ahead and don’t bother filming it. That’s not coming from a “you suck if you use moa” perspective; if you have fun when you do it and find it funny, which it is, then go ahead and use it, just don’t expect people to enjoy watching footage of it.
I personally stopped watching at the mesmer fight after the eotm sequence. It was like watching you squash bugs that were trying to run away from you, just sad. Same thing with that necro at about 4 min in. You filmed 1v1 vs such poor players, I mean they were just so bad, that instead of looking awesome it made you look bad too. That’s the problem when you film 1v1’s against people who are really bad, especially if it takes you a long time to kill them. The whole thing is just pathetic to watch. Like you were in a fist fight with someone half your size, but took forever to beat him. If you just knocked him out real fast, ok that may be funny, but taking forever just makes me feel sorry for him and you look weak. Get what I mean?
That’s part of the problem with a condi vid. If you are going to put ganks in, you need to blow them up super fast like in a shatter vid, or somehow kill them very fast. Watching you slowly chase down someone who is just trying to run away, and on top of it moa them, well again it just looks sad.
The hardcore fast paced music layered over all of this just adds to the sense of sort of revulsion (that’s too strong a word, but it kinda fits). Then add on top of that all the little words and comments and it just looks like you are bragging about beating up children as a 25 year old, who himself thinks these are good fights.
I liked the guys running off cliffs in eotm, but take out all the sounds and silly music. The guy just ran off a cliff, you don’t need to emphasize how funny it is, in fact unless you are really good at it you’re only going to make it less funny.
I think with a condi build you have to use really challenging fights in your videos, or it’s just boring to watch. You should show more fights where you had to do some clutch stuff to win, or show more 1v2’s etc. In a shatter vid, it’s always fun to watch 1v1’s because in any shatter fight the mesmer either comes super close to dying and has to do clutch stuff to survive before they obliterate their opponent in a an insane burst, or they just obliterate their opponent in a an insane burst. Either way fun to watch.
Anyways, I should probably get back to work. Clearly you have the time to make creative vids. I hope you keep trying and have more success in the future. I’ll def. check out your next one.
Do people still play PU condi? I haven’t seen too many people running PU anymore. The spec is so slow now with DD nerf, I mean what do you even do now, just run around and pull some aggro before people realize you are doing like no dmg and ignore you (even more than before)?
To add a comment to OP: I think the consensus is that the Debilitating Dissipation nerf hit all condi specs very hard, and the standard PU condi spec is of questionable viability now (many thought it was of questionable viability before). I know pyro says he still runs it, but I haven’t seen anyone lately, and I think it’s because it is now a complete and total bummer. The dmg output just got wrecked with DD nerf. As far as power PU, I think you will have bad dmg and die without having too much fun (I don’t think power PU was really viable even before Sep 9).
(edited by MSFone.3026)
But then he’d have literally zero mobility except a 10 sec phase retreat (which doesn’t really count as mobility anyways). It would make this build absolute torture to play in wvw.
I know. >_< But that pistol is clutch in this build. I think he woulda won that 2v1 at 7 mins into the video if he had Staff
Ya but that is the tradeoff you have to make in wvw: If you build just to win fights you will spend most of your time running back from spawn to wherever you were or just watching people run away from you and actually win less fights because you get into winnable fights less often. You have to prioritize mobility.
There is a good chance he would have “lost” that fight if he had staff equipped because he wouldn’t have survived the zerg and then the 4 man gank squad he ran into before he ever got into that 2v1. At least with focus he lived long enough to get into a 2v1 that he had a chance of winning (hypothetical and speculative, but you get the point).
Look at it this way: To win a fight you first have to find it. The more time you spend running back from spawn the less chances you have to do that. Also, mobility allows you to force fights you want to get into and those make up a good number of your successful fights. If you have no mobility then people can just run away from you, thus reducing your chances for good fights further. Prioritizing mobility is how you stay alive and on the field and maintain the ability to force fights you want, thus maximizing the opportunity for good fights.
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But then he’d have literally zero mobility except a 10 sec phase retreat (which doesn’t really count as mobility anyways). It would make this build absolute torture to play in wvw.
I theory-crafted a MH x2 scepter build just after patch and haven’t had a chance to come back to it, but without a doubt to make a build like that work I think you must at the very least have scepter double traited for 6s recharges on torment block to make it remotely viable. It wasn’t possible to do this before (bugged), but now is.
Even then, the build doesn’t really end up with a clear focus or theme (like CI/PU etc). It’s just basic condi mesmer. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it better do really well at being a condi mesmer if it’s got nothing else special going for it. To do that, you have to consider the condition output you’re dishing and going MH scepter x2 does limit that. So you have to build as many other condition sources in as possible. This is just one idea I put together really quick – illusion on death theme-ish (maybe you go with pistol vs torch, w/e):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArd7PIx2YM1FnsmcQ3QlNghB-w
Thanks for the input. The thing is I don’t really see the point in running a condi build without PU. IMO interrupts and CI in particular just work so much better as power. When I think of a condi build, I don’t want to lockdown my target, I want them running around flailing killing clones, proccing confusion and maxing torment dmg, not standing still locked down. I’m not saying condi CI doesn’t work, as I’ve seen footage of skilled players doing fine with it, just explaining my personal view on condi and attrition. That is why I don’t see too much point in running a condi build that isn’t PU. So like the above build you linked I’m sure would be very good 1v1, but I doubt it would handle 1vX better than any other build, and I know there are builds much better for 1v1. So what’s the point besides personal preference?
But I’m always trying to learn, so if someone could explain to me a situation where a condi build without PU clearly outperforms all power builds that could be used in that situation, please do. If it’s just personal preference then I think condi mesmer really did get seriously hurt by DD nerf in that the supposed compensation and other options we got are not panning out. Obviously this is not news to pretty much anyone, I just didn’t want to conclude that until I had personally tried out all the options I could think of. I’m still going to give this one a go I think.
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Thanks guys for the replies. Still on the fence, my character is quite poor so buying those runes is a big deal for me unfortunately.
I would really like to have a good condi build, playing condi bunker is fun. Right now all my builds are power. Since the patch I haven’t been able to come up with a good condi build, for wvw or spvp honestly. MtD doesn’t work, and all we got on the condi side from the patch was torment on scepter.
I could still run the old blackwater build if I thought I could stand crawling across the map like a purple snail (or maybe caterpillar is a better one, yuk yuk).
I may still give this a go. With PU hopefully counter=stalemate and I can escape. So if each engagement were I either I bail and live or they die, that doesn’t sound too bad for a roamer. The plus to this build over classic PU is that, in theory, people cannot just run away from you.
If this one doesn’t work I’m giving up on condi until a future patch, which is sad. The whole point of a condi build is 1vX, because if you are only concerned about 1v1 there are far better builds even than blackwater pre-patch.
I have to admit I didn’t realize it at the time, but I am starting to see now how the DD nerf may have totally destroyed the condi mesmer. I thought maybe some of the other things they gave us would make up for it, but after trying them it doesn’t seem like it. I’ll give this one a go and see if it works, if not then I guess good job Anet for kitten a whole class of mesmer builds.
Basically posting to get feedback before I drop ~50g on the runes. I got the idea for this from Ross’ recent scepter build and wanted to try a PU version going for max torment. Basically it’s a condi PU build trying to maximize scepter potential rather than staff.
The idea is to use scepter clones and the low cd block to overload the target with torment, while DD and scepter 3 serve as cover and some added condi burst. PU is there for PU, obvs. Focus is for mobility, as running without any swiftness like that in wvw is not an option for me, so don’t bother commenting on the focus.
Do you think this will work in wvw? I know already that this concept does not work in sPvP; the duration increase on torment is key, if it’s going to work at all. Thanks for taking the time to give feedback!
Just got this idea from a thread here in mesmer forums https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Illusionary-Persona-as-default/first#post4476641
How about for one week you let everyone have 20 trait points to spend instead of 14, just to see what happens? This would be a fun way to let people experiment and really see what is and is not OP. Since everyone would be able to do it, maybe it would really shake things up in terms of the top classes and be a good way explore possible balance changes for the future.
Ya but the 6 points in illusions does nothing for the burst damage of shatter besides the 30% cd reduction on shatters, just sustain plus perks.
Considering im able to maintain 10-15 might just from illusions tree, the no confusion on shatter, the no might, and the no ic would really hurt the burst if you didn’t go illusions, on top of being able to burst 30% less of the time.
But you’ve got 6 free points! Is the 5 point in illusions the only source of might we have? Take BI just like you said. A shatter mesmer can still blow someone up with no might stacks on them ahead of time. Land on interrupt and now you have your might back. And how does confusion add to burst? Yes no IC would hurt GS shatter burst.
For sake of argument say you could only have 80% of the current shatter builds burst in any other build, which you totally could. This would still be insane.
Ya but the 6 points in illusions does nothing for the burst damage of shatter besides the 30% cd reduction on shatters, just sustain plus perks.
Example: 4/4/6/0/0 with IP, take CI or PU, either way it would be totally insane to have a non-glkittenter mesmer with the exact same level of glass burst. Take any power based build with DE and add IP to it, it would be totally awesome and totally op. I mean really literally any build with 2 in dom and 4 in dueling would now have basically the exact same burst as the current shatter build does (ok minus the 10% crit from 2 in illusions, but go ahead and take that too if you want, you still have 6 points left).
A shatter build can one shot people. The trade off is a shatter mesmer can be one shotted themselves. Well now give them 6 points to do with as they please. Most people would build to no longer be one-shottable, but still be able to one people themselves.
If they did this for us it would be a pandora’s box because then everyone else would cry for the same thing and it would be madness. Possibly super fun though, actually now I think they should do it lol.
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I think we are going to talk about over the top hard core buffs to our mechanics, which this would be (using our resource consuming mechanic with no resource), there are better things we could get.
Haha this was super fun to watch, great music, way to go!
Well in that case I can envisage the power behind this. Three scepter clones, kite, hide in stealth then burst scepter 2 + heal for a large torment stack (id still take a torment sigil). I’d even take mantra heal so that I can auto cast the heal the moment the scepter 2 riposte goes through. At this point we’re talking the most effective torment build.
You are right about torment sigils, torment and doom is probably best like you said. This build wouldn’t work pre patch obvs, and we all know now that MtD is not…good. So really we still don’t have a successor to blackwater post nerf.
You could go staff with IE, but then you’re lacking condi clear and mobility. The whole reason I hated running PU condi in wvw was the lack of mobility, you just slow run around, it’s stupid. I ran hybrid some, and that worked/works fine, but I really like condi builds.
I think what you did here with scepter+focus/pistol (or torch for PU version) could be the best bet at a new condi roamer that has the survivability and potency of the old condi PU builds, but also with mobility and major condi clear. The only question is whether or not it has the power to put someone down relying on scepter and DD alone.
It’s hard to test without the runes, because the duration buff is pretty huge, but for now I’m going with just undead runes. Really though I just need to plop down the gold for the torment runes now :-/
This seems pretty neat. I never considered going scepter only, but it looks cool. I’ve been trying some things out based on this. I realized that by going full scepter you could alleviate some weaknesses of the old PU condi and the nerfs while still doing most of what you have in the vid, minus the might stacks.
Here is what I’m experimenting with: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArf7dl0npMttpxRNcrNitxY6L6oiTWTOlMghB-T1BNABAofY09HeR5nnnEA3U/5znAgOKBJFAMzBA-w
You could run signet of Dom instead of AT, or put whatever you want there really. The only question is the price of the runes. If it works I’d say it’s worth it though to have a strong condi PU build again.
Obviously you give up duelist, so I need to test it more to see if it really has enough pressure, but in theory focusing on the scepter and torment should even out the nerf to DD. Let me know what you think.
It’s a nice varient. I’m a big AT fan. I was running it for a year or more solid. It’s probably in almost all of my vids. I’ve moved away from it as of late just because there are other things I’ve wanted to use. However I do recognise that it’d provide both a condi cleanse and a boon strip, which is helpful given the stability weakness of the build.
That said, I had to wonder if rubes of torment are stronger than perplexity. 2 additional stacks of torment every 20s on heal vs the 25% chance for 3 and the 5 on interrupt every 15s, what’s going to proc the most damage? Confusion can be an unreliable condition, but a burst of it catching a target by surprise can down them quickly. Thieves, eles, guardians, even mesmers or anyone with a low HP are susceptible to perplexity runes. It also synergises better with the interrupt aspect of the build.
I’d miss the might on interrupt, but you can get by without it. Really though I’m not thrilled with the change in sigils. It is a straight up option, but there are sigils you can get more out of than straight up damage and duration. Tormenting sigil for higher overall torment stacks, doom to counter a heal signit warrior, or to flat out catch out a heal. Sigil of corruption for stacks.
The only other thing I’m unsure of, like you, was the torch. You get the stealth, the burn, and a bit more confusion stacking from iMage. But untraited you don’t get the condi cleanse or the reduced CD which, when reduced, the cd synergises really well with weapon swaps and rotations. I love torch. My legendary is torch. But untraited I’m not sure it’s worth it. Pistol isnt just the additional bleeds pressure, it’s also an interrupt (2s stun no less). Without signit of dom you’re two sources down. In fact I just realized you’d dropped MoD off the bar which has removed the entire interrupt part of the condi build off the build :p
Here’s my question to you. You were going for an alternative to the traditional PU build focusing on dropping the staff (and the weaknesses) and running the sole scepter approach. But why even take PU? Do you need it? What for? Can you create a build that’ll allow you to live without it? I left PU a long time ago now and not because it’s not a good trait. When I did I was trying to come up with builds that I could live without it. So think about it this way, why would I need PU’s survival if instead I could simply interrupt any burst my opponent might throw at me? Interrupts become protection and immunity in themselves, while also becoming damage. PU can’t become damage. So which makes me stronger?
A stun, a daze, an interrupted skill, an imob from CI, all these things equate to seconds of lockdown for the enemy. Those seconds are actually transferable to seconds spent in stealth. That’s another thing to think about. In effect we’re buying seconds between our skills spent and their becoming available again. This is felt most in our heal skills.
Think about it.
I run CI all the time, but the nice thing about PU is the ability for 1vX. Playing interrupt I think outnumbered fights your best bet is to burst someone down, which as you say lends itself to a power based build. I know you can condi “burst” and we all call it “burst,” but it’s not quite the same. So when I play CI it’s in a power build. I just see condition as attrition, not burst, so I think it lends itself to PU type play.
So to answer your question about what does PU get you that interrupts don’t: PU gets you kitten d by your target’s buddy less often than CI does in a build without power burst imo.
What intrigued me about your build was making something trying to really exploit the new scepter to it’s maximum. So maybe the same idea can work in a PU build. The torment runes are just a huge buff to scepter dmg, so it makes sense.
Well look this isn’t theoretical particle physics, there is only so far you can go here. As was said, there are a finite number of total trait combinations, and a very small subset of those even remotely make sense. Now take all the players that experiment with mesmer builds and let them go at it for two years… ya it has pretty much all been done and there isn’t really much more to figure out.
As pyro said, until they add more possibilities to explore, you won’t be seeing much that hasn’t been already done in the past 2 years.
Swap out Chaotic dampening for BI and take MoD in that third slot and you’ve got a neat variant on an interrupt build. You could go further and ditch restorative mantras and take CI.
Probably slightly less good in WvW, but I ran something similar in the past with centaur runes and it did kick a lot of kitten .
This seems pretty neat. I never considered going scepter only, but it looks cool. I’ve been trying some things out based on this. I realized that by going full scepter you could alleviate some weaknesses of the old PU condi and the nerfs while still doing most of what you have in the vid, minus the might stacks.
Here is what I’m experimenting with: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArf7dl0npMttpxRNcrNitxY6L6oiTWTOlMghB-T1BNABAofY09HeR5nnnEA3U/5znAgOKBJFAMzBA-w
You could run signet of Dom instead of AT, or put whatever you want there really. The only question is the price of the runes. If it works I’d say it’s worth it though to have a strong condi PU build again.
Obviously you give up duelist, so I need to test it more to see if it really has enough pressure, but in theory focusing on the scepter and torment should even out the nerf to DD. Let me know what you think.
Did a quick search and didn’t find an answer: Anyone know if phantasmal strength (inspiration 5) affects bleeds applied from sharper images?
This would be awesome, and glamour as well. Could also merge mantra cd reduction and armor talents. There is a lot of bloat with talents like this, there should just be one each to buff each skill type, manipulation, glamours, mantras, and any others I’m missing.
Scepter 3 actually does more power damage than blurred frenzy.
Can you please elaborate on how you reached this conclusion? I can’t see this from skill info. Is this more anecdotal experience or do you have test data to show this?
From the wiki:
Blurred Frenzy
Damage (8x): 808 (2.400)Confusing Images
Damage (5x): 840 (2.500)808 (2.400) < 840 (2.500)
Based on experience in-game I don’t believe these numbers are incorrect.
Well, this is embarrassing. I was going to try and save face talking about maybe crit chance and 5x vs 8x, but, no Images still comes out ahead.
Just brain farted on that one, thanks for the reply. I just assumed (like many I think) that BF hits harder than CI. Makes me look at scepter as a more viable power weapon.
Surprised this thread is still happening…
As a mesmer you can go condi and absolutely kitten on many other classes/builds. As a mesmer you can easily build for insane condi removal that is mindless (HM+mantra heal= crazy auto condi clear without thought).
I don’t really get the issue here. Other classes do not have it so much better than us in terms of condi cleanse, if they did they wouldn’t also have players complaining every day about condis.
Every class has to trait/build for condi cleanse. Just because the “standard” or “meta” builds don’t doesn’t mean something is wrong, it just means those builds don’t prioritize condi cleanse, probably because in the hands of super good players (that define the meta, surprise surprise) condis are not a problem. For the rest of us mortals there are easy tweaks to those builds that allow you to effectively ignore condi builds.
I mean condi thieves are literally a trash spec when you build appropriately for cleanse, literally a joke. It’s so simple go X/6/X/2/X and take mantra heal and I promise you you will not ever lose 1v1 to a condi build besides maybe certain good necros unless you are handicapped. “OH BUT MANTRA I HATE THOSE,” ok ya fine, but what I said stands, take the mantra and watch as you kitten on just about any condi build.
I mean really, /thread already.
Scepter 3 actually does more power damage than blurred frenzy.
Can you please elaborate on how you reached this conclusion? I can’t see this from skill info. Is this more anecdotal experience or do you have test data to show this?
Ya that is the choice I always make too with the signet: give up decoy or give up blink. I can play without decoy better than without blink, but stealth is so stupidly OP in this game I really feel kinda kitten without it. I go back and forth. I noticed (in spvp) that even with signet a warrior can cleave my phants like no problem, but have other times noticed their beefiness with the signet too.
I also agree that it’s all about positioning them; that is the best way to keep them up.
I notice that your phants get dropped really easily and you are having to use e signet to get another back out. Ever consider taking signet of illusions to buff them up some? Maybe 50% HP increase isn’t enough in some situations, or maybe just not enough to bother in general. I’m still on the fence about it myself depending on build.
Solid music btw.
Very possibly just me fighting noob engineers, but I’ve had very little problems with a phantasm build. They target me (probably this is the noob factor right here) and the phants just chunk em down. I always roll with MoD as well and yes this helps a lot as someone said. I also run with serious condi cleanse.
There’s a pun in here somewhere…
Maybe, but if so it probably stinks.
Well done good sir, well done.
Solo roaming as full zerk shatter can be more frustrating than fun most of the time, imo.
That’s how I find it on my server.
Sadly this is my experience too, key word is “solo” however.
LOL dude I honestly love some of your other videos, you are really good, but this made me laugh. Was it supposed to be funny? If it’s not a joke I’m not quite sure what I’m watching.
Keep kicking kitten and putting out awesome shatter vids though!
Much respect, just giving my feedback.
Heh whut? On top of DD bleeds, I get AoE burns from Torch, lots of bleeds from illusion crits, and Confusion from Clone deaths, iMage and the occasional F2.
As I said, this is the more Power leaning variant, but it’s much more survivable then a straight power PU build that relies heavily on Stealth/PU to survive. With that 448 extra Toughness (and +1k HPs) you can take a lot more of a beating without being in stealth all the time.
Also with pure Power or Condie builds you always end up with the same problems; some professions are very hard to beat with either power or condie damage alone. This is what ends up driving you to try out a hybrid build, and Celestial is so popular with other classes for just that reason.
As I said in the OP, go with the more balanced hybrid approach if you want more out of your Condies, it works very well too! However, it’s IMO a little more 1v1 focused and also less reliable. Although the Scepter has gotten better, it’s still generally weaker and less reliable then Sword IMHO.
The iDuelist is always very tempting for a build like this, I agree, but I find I have to have Torch + Decoy to really make a decent PU build. While the iDuelist puts out a lot of pain both in bleeds and direct damage, and Magic Bullet is also quite useful so this build for more interrupts, the Torch just works better…for me at least.
No I mean ditch GS for scepter/pistol, keep sword torch. Why do you prefer GS over sc/pistol?
Hmm, basically you need shattered concentration to win, makes sense. I tend not to run that :-/
I might mess around with traited mimic. With a 24 sec cd and 30 into chaos (playing CI for example) I wonder if the boon duration would work out so that you had just about everything they had and could even out the fight?
Sometimes in wvw I just get floored by these guys, depending on the build I’m using. What are the builds and tactics you guys find effective against D/D ele’s? I’m sure they are a pretty hard counter to some of our builds.
This may have been said before, but it’s so ridiculous to not have this implemented I don’t care if I’m making another.
Please add a feature to save builds/gear setups. On the fly retraiting is amazing, good call on adding that. The natural next step is to let us save 3-5 different builds/gear configurations. If you have the gear in your bags in pve, just select the saved builds and your traits and gear get swapped out to the saved setup. It’s not hard, and it would be huge QoL.
I have a different build for world bosses, solo pve and wvw. I don’t even run a ton of dungeons, if I did you could add probably 4 more to that list. It is super annoying to have to keep swapping out each piece of gear individually and retraiting each time I move to a different piece of content, which I do quite frequently.
This is a great game, don’t get me wrong, but seriously just do this ok? It’s time, just go ahead and copy wow on this one, we won’t mind. Or heck just go ahead and copy what you had in GW1, don’t know how this one got left behind.
(edited by MSFone.3026)
Pyro is the eternal buzzkill on hybrid builds, but usually he’s right :-/
Swap out GS for scepter/pistol and then you’ll have a more legit PU hybrid. I have played almost exactly that and it is tons of fun, very effective. 0/6/6/2 is super solid, you can run it pure power too and it works great, and if you want to go “hard mode” swap out PU for CI.
Those are actually both really awesome ideas…
I have noticed when I have fired 1 or 2 charges of a mantra in a fight and want to recharge it. Rather than fire the last charge and wait out the cool down you can swap the skill out to a shorter cool down skill and then swap it back. Often you get to recharge the mantra you wanted at 1/2 the cool down to no cool down at all. I’m not sure if it’s a bug or just the way it is. But what ever it is , it’s pretty neat trick.
Pretty sure this will only work once you drop combat, so not exactly hyper useful “in a fight,” but neat nonetheless. I will remember that, thanks!
Well you got 3x for each MoP and 2 recharges -> 3*3=9
Well ya, but I was trying to say there would be some cd on it so you couldn’t do that. MoP is the only real problem here, as in in between using all charges the mantra should go through the entire cd. With other mantras this wouldn’t be a big deal, but ofc MoP has a 1 sec recharge.
I still don’t think it would be hugely OP because of the trait investment and giving up and elite to get it.
Or you could have it not affect MoP if this really seemed too OP. It’s definitely not OP with any of the others that have a real cd.
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I respectfully disagree. To me a master of misdirection and manipulation does not blow a big trumpet at people (though perhaps that would be confounding to some, “Why is that moron blowing a horn at me?”); the war horn just does not seem mesmery at all to me. If we get a new weapon I think, as many have suggested, it should be a main hand pistol.
Wow – image the burst of 9x mantra of pain O.O – while being stunned all the time xD wich stacks vuln ö.ö
Wait how would you get 9x MoP?
Firstly, I really like this idea and fully agree that it should be implemented immediately.
However, do you want to force the devs to somehow balance 6 AoE MoP spikes in as many seconds? not to mention the condi clear, stunbreak, and heals.
That assumes it fully charges your other mantras(2 charges, 3 with HM trait) if it just gave each of them one charge it might get closer to balanced, but that would be rather underwhelming in an elite skill.
Great idea, but difficult to balance.
Yes you are right, maybe it adds two charges, or maybe the charges have a cd, as in you activate your elite mantra and it fully charges your other mantras, but puts a 5 sec cd on them. Really the point of the elite is to allow you to run multiple mantras without having to charge each one individually, not to enable back to back uses of the mantras themselves, because yes this probably would be op.
This is really only an issue with MoP: It would only work if the mantra was off cd and uncharged, meaning you had used all it’s charges and incurred the cd. With MoD or Heal or any of the others with substantial cool downs, this means you used the 2 or 3 charges, the mantra went on cd, and once it comes up again you can use the elite charge to instantly charge them back up. All it saves you is the 2.75sec*(number of mantras you have) charge time. Because MoP has a 1 sec cd, yes this would allow 6 MoP spikes within 7 sec. But honestly you have to take MoP, and elite slow and a GM to do that, and MoP isn’t super strong to begin with so all things considered I don’t think this would be too OP.
With all the other mantras this would definitely not be OP.
I used subliminal influence on you to make this thread. =P
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Elite-Mantra-of-Domination/first#post3710341
Ah, you got me lol :P. Ok well then consider this a thread devoted to your idea, because it’s a good one.
I’ve posted about an elite mantra before, but had another idea and wanted to share it. If you don’t like mantras at all then you won’t like this ofc, but if you do then hear me out:
Elite Mantra: 1-2 charges, each charge instantly charges your other mantras. 90-240 sec cd. Charges and cd balanced however they need to be. This would only work on a mantra that is not charged, it wouldn’t add charges to say MoD with 1 charge left. That way you could not skip the cd in between chargings.
So for example you have MoD and Heal Mantra both uncharged, but your elite mantra has a charge. Then activating the elite mantra charge will instantly fully charge both your MoD and your heal mantra.
Having another mantra slotted as an elite would also be nice for Empowering Mantra builds, and so give us a nice boost to dmg in pve too. If you trait for Harmonious Mantras then your elite would also get an extra charge, and so it would be a buff to a somewhat iffy GM trait, making it pretty good and making mantra builds more viable.
With the recent buff to offensive mantras, I think more people are using them, and personally I love using them. An elite like this would buff something unique to the mesmer and I think make more people consider using these pretty awesome tools by relieving the main pain incurred when using them, the high (unreasonably high imo) cost of the long charge up.
Edit: Please don’t bother posting about how you hate mantras and why they are bad. They aren’t going anywhere and that discussion has been had many other places anyways.
(edited by MSFone.3026)
If you heal with Mender’s Purity to cure poison, the poison still reduces the heal before it is removed, was this always the case?
Bit lame to not do the cure first before applying the heal.
Using the heal mantra with mender’s can somewhat mitigate this, as only once charge of the heal is affected by the poison, so it only hits 1/2 (or 1/3 if HM is traited) of your heal instead of the whole thing like with ether feast.
Great video! You are right, this is a game and it’s about having fun. This isn’t professional MMA, people need to relax and not talk kitten. I really like your videos, they are fun to watch and you explain what you are doing, which even if I’m not into shatter is fun to watch because I get another perspective. Sometimes I do like to play shatter and this video definitely gives some tips I did not know.
Thanks for posting the vid and thanks for being a good member of the community. Just ignore the haters, or better yet laugh at them for being a hater in an online game, pathetic lol.
Keep up the good work!
I think all this would do is allow for some stronger shatter builds, but not really change anything else too much in terms of build diversity. Phant builds would still be phant builds, condi builds would still be condi builds, etc. Builds that don’t shatter now still wouldn’t. This would basically be a giant buff to shatter, which would be fun, but doesn’t really help us in any real way in terms of our weaknesses now. This would just make us even better at the roles we already excel in.
This won’t happen, like ever, and even if it did the nerfbat would swing so fast and so strong it would be better off if it never happened.
Pre patch you could run celestial with PU and have lots of fun, it was very effective. Haven’t tried it post nerf though, as I don’t really think PU is worth it anymore. All the hybrid builds I’ve seen other people run involved PU, so I’m not sure if there is still a place for it (celestial).
Really you don’t need to PU to have stealth. It’s not “pro” but there are quite a few shatter mesmers that run GS Sw/t and absolutely school people. They rely on stealth a lot, with torch and decoy.
Ditch the scepter for sword and do as Ergo said, try shatter again. Learning when to use your stealths slightly earlier to land attacks and escape them will give you quite a bit of survivability. What you lose is the ability to get focused, go “oops” 2 seconds later, hit stealth and get a reset. Without PU the “oops” is “darn I’m dead.” That is why ppl call PU a crutch (in a power build in particular), and you can be very effective without it if you practice.
Check out this person in the video below. This is one of my favorite videos, and this is what soloQ stealth mesmer should be.
i think the different now for condi build is the IE triat
it doesnt matter if you go shatter with mtd or not
i like to go 0,4,2,2,6 with condition runes and when i shatter my condition is buff with 100-200 more dmg and also torment and confusion stacks
The only thing is that actually shattering 3 IE clones does not buff your dmg on a single target, it nerfs it. It does buff your dmg if you can hit like 3 people with the shatter, so for group condi maybe it’s good, but in a group fight IE clones are buffing your allies too so it’s still hard to say if a shatter is better than just maintaining staff clones.
Yes you get 100 more condition dmg, but aside from that it’s almost a waste of 2 points. With undead runes you’d probably be better of just taking Chaos X.
Sorry for going off topic, but every time I see scepter/sword staff I think of Seven Mirror and this build really looks like what he would have run if he still played (maybe different runes but otherwise almost exact) x. x
Well that kinda makes me feel cool, at least not dumb for posting it lol.