So I took our wise SBI master’s advice and started skirmishing with 3 people on SBI BL. We kept picking off people from a strung out group of 15 until SBI all hid inside the tower with arrow carts.
Expert skirmishing SBI.
You’re really living the dream there…
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
We’ll just need to make up for it by turning all the BLs green tonight. I’d hate to do that, though because it might just break SBI and we might need them again next week.
Careful, you might accidentally generate too many points to stay in T4 that way
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Get the job done with yaks, so we can move up. Seems likely we’ll have something for you.
It’s not DB & SoS that are stopping Mag from moving up to T3. If the majority of Mag seriously wanted to be in T3 then they would have had a Rating lead over YB by this stage of the week. Instead it seems that a lot of Mag players are more interested in screwing around in T4 than putting on their big boy pants & earning the points to force their way back up to T3.
Sorry, I’m looking at the score in our matchup and the score in in your matchup and having a lot of trouble taking your post seriously. Seriously, right now at the standings, Yaks is projected to gain another 32 ratings points…. And they may yet overtake SoS by the end of the matchup… As long as SoS keeps giving Yaks inflated ratings gain, Mags won’t be able to gain enough against these T4 teams to compensate.
There was a 3.3 rating divide between YB & Mag at the end of last weeks match, & that was the week when SoS entered T3 & had the most points to lose (& YB to gain) from their overinflated rating. Mag players in last weeks T4 thread said that they had made a concerted effort over the last 2 days of that match to get back to T3.
This week, while SoS’s rating is still inflated, it is not to the same extent as it was last week. If Mag could close the gap to 3.3 pts last week when conditions were more favorable to YB, then why has the rating gap increased so far this week? Two reasons would be that YB has performed much better this week (especially our off-peak players), but also that many Mag players are more interested in farming badges/roaming than capping points.
If Mag was serious about returning to T3 sooner rather than later then they would have put the same effort into this weeks match as they did the last 2 days of last weeks match.
Last Thursday Mag was within 0.5 points of YB but lost ground on the last night of the match. They were also within 4 points this week but now that margin has ballooned at just the right time to keep them in T4. I don’t suspect any shenanigans because they tell us all the time they prefer to fight outnumbered and are bored. I guess the math is just screwing them over at the perfect time each week.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Ah someone brought up my name. That’s sooo cute that it makes me chuckle. Please continue with the chest thumping on all sides. I am entertained. Poor Mag is all big and bad when they outnumber peeps, then completely fall apart when they move up a tier and have to face equal or more numbers on a nightly basis. If any of you wanna check the threads while they are in tier 3, I am sure it will tickle your fancy.
Mag isn’t moving up this week. Looks like they’ll just fall short again (working on their community maybe?).
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
I play a full glass cannon thief and a full Power/Toughness/Vitality warrior and can definitely say the damage is mitigated. My warrior has survived the burst from two glass cannon thieves focus firing a few times. One thief simply isn’t going to kill him in most situations.
My thief on the other hand, falls over in a stiff breeze but is really fun to play. High risk, high reward. I can hit for ridiculous damage but can also be taken out very easily by a thief with good burst if I don’t see them coming.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Has SBI and CD tried to dp Maguuma yet? If not, why? Seems like a smart thing to do.
Seems like every time we make a move into the EB green zone CD hits Pangloss/Ogrewatch which means we have to go back and defend. I doubt there’s any shenanigans going on, just CD seeing an opening and trying to exploit it.
However, it’s doubtful we’ll be able to play offense very much for the rest of the week anyway. Our fairweather players are in straight up fairweather mode right now. I’m actually considering joining them by taking a break until the patch comes out.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Yes/No.. say your guild represents 20% of the server’s active WvW population and the whole guild goes offline for one entire match
Using population trends would require them to be offline for longer than one match. The current system allows them to tank a match in a single week and manipulate the tier groupings if their current rating is close enough. We’ve actually seen this happen.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
the “levels of participation” vary constantly for dozens of reasons, there’s very big changes day-to-day and even averaged out week-to-week there’s dips and surges.
It’s vulnerable to manipulation because all it would take is a few big guilds to take a break for a week or two and then force a tier drop.
Can’t they do that now anyway? I know SoR delayed advancing to T1 in a match a few weeks back.
However, spikes or drops in participation can be accounted for with reliable math. It would require a trend of non-participation to manipulate a matchup. Basing matchups on participation is actually less vulnerable to player manipulation than the current system if done correctly.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
I’ve said this in other posts: Moving to 8 hour matches with population medians being the primary way to rank servers in tiers would be a much better system than the current one. This solves long term mismatches, creates more variation in the match ups and works inside the current 3v3 tiered system. Worst case a server is dominated for 8 hours rather than 7 days.
8 hour matches would be worse for glicko ratings than 7 day matches. You’d basically have three different server profiles feeding the ratings instead of building a composite rating covering all time zones. The numbers would literally be all over the place.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
I suggest you adjust the tiers based on recent WvW activity.
That sounds awfully vulnerable to match manipulation.
got any other suggestions?
They know the levels of participation in WvW for a given server. They simply need to group the tiers based on those levels. Waiting for the glicko rating to stabilize after a mass exodus or a downturn in player activity (at which point the rating is basically invalid anyway) results in non-competitive matches and a generally poor gaming experience.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
I know people are looking forward to new content and additional character progression through WvW. However, none of that is going to matter if the game isn’t actually fun and competitive. If you don’t do something about the ridiculous mismatches in WvW participation will inevitably decline. It’s Tuesday morning and the majority of matches are already blowouts. The fact that close, competitive matches are the exception instead of the rule can’t be the intended result.
Assuming weekly blowouts aren’t the goal, what’s being done to correct this issue? Please don’t say the glicko system. It’s an abject failure in this application. There is simply not enough data being generated to allow the glicko ratings to mature. Additionally, the server profiles are constantly changing due to player activity and server transfers. The glicko rating for a given server is invalid when the population is altered through inactivity or player migration. The glicko system is based on consistency which doesn’t exist in WvW. Unless you progress the ratings artificially or manually adjust them we’ll still be stuck in this rut 3-6 months from now.
I suggest you adjust the tiers based on recent WvW activity. If you don’t do something to generate competitive matches then this big WvW patch is nothing more than rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
[cut]
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
There’s a reason each match involves three servers. The ability of two servers to gang up on a third is intended and expected. It should actually happen much more often.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Will you people shut up about culling? It’s not a factor in the vast majority of thief encounters unless that thief is also in a very large group. The thief who’s destroying you 1v1 near the supply camp isn’t subject to culling, you can’t see him because of Cloak and Dagger.
This is not true, easily seen as a ranger because as soon as you exit stealth my pet takes off to eat you. You render 1 vs 1 in wvwvw in approx 2secs after the pet charges. My machine is not low end and I usually run 115fps without the 60fps limiter.. So culling does affect w3 even in small scale scenarios. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Culling limits the number of characters reported to your client. In your scenario that limit is zero, which is silly.
It may be silly, doesnt stop it from being true.
I have tested it numberous times, so much so I’ve started telling people to follow the pet when trying to find a thief.
Of course it stops it from being true. The fact that you ever see an enemy proves it false. If culling kicked in at one enemy onscreen the game would be unplayable.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Will you people shut up about culling? It’s not a factor in the vast majority of thief encounters unless that thief is also in a very large group. The thief who’s destroying you 1v1 near the supply camp isn’t subject to culling, you can’t see him because of Cloak and Dagger.
This is not true, easily seen as a ranger because as soon as you exit stealth my pet takes off to eat you. You render 1 vs 1 in wvwvw in approx 2secs after the pet charges. My machine is not low end and I usually run 115fps without the 60fps limiter.. So culling does affect w3 even in small scale scenarios. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Culling limits the number of characters reported to your client. In your scenario that limit is zero, which is silly.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Will you people shut up about culling? It’s not a factor in the vast majority of thief encounters unless that thief is also in a very large group. The thief who’s destroying you 1v1 near the supply camp isn’t subject to culling, you can’t see him because of Cloak and Dagger.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
This thread is an embarrassment to thieves in general and the thieves you’re playing against specifically. I can’t believe no one has hit you harder than that. It’s just difficult to comprehend…
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Congratulations on your achievement in the field of excellence. I usually play in the mornings, usually no later than 11am CST.
Then how can you claim to be the most hated person on the server? The vast majority of the population plays at other times. Maybe you can be the “most hated person on the server during The Price Is Right”…
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Yams the best counter to CnD is speed. HS or Steal to him when he flashes visible (I run full glass cannon D/D spec and hit these guys really hard). It’s not in their best interest to trade blows with a spec like that. You can also use your shortbow if you know where he is (shadow refuge), clusterbomb hits everyone hard.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Hey SBI and CD, you guys are pretty cool. You’ve both done really well considering you’re post exodus.
However, you should post on here more. It’s the closest to WvW I can get during the day.
We spent the last couple of weeks dealing with some bitter trolls in another tier that had dampening effect on our posting habits. I’m sure the activity will pick up soon.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
By the way, lots of fun last night @ CDBL Bay, extended 3-way (which is really the best kind). Also, good times on the walls of SM before that…even though that 3-way was cut short (maybe you guys were excited and just finished too fast). It’s ok, it happens to everyone.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
I’m just sayin’ if someone came into my neighborhood, ransacked my house AND my neighbor’s house AND then went down to the local bar and bragged about it…
You would do what exactly? Me, I would call the cops because I’m slow, overweight, and uncoordinated while this person has shown that they have at least some experience with violence.
I love this guy
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
By the way, I don’t think laughing at your opponent is always meant as a bad thing. It happened to me just last night. I was in CDBL and saw a Maguuma necro headed for a tower and managed to burst him down to about 10% before he got inside. Next thing I know he’s up on the wall and laughs at me.
I could have taken that one of two very different ways:
The first way, “You suck and you couldn’t kill me LOL kitten” which would have made me angry…
or
The second way, “You suck and you couldn’t kill me LOL kitten” which made me laugh and /wave back…
It’s all about perspective
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Why this upsets you that someone points out that the games World vs World ranking system is nothing more then a ranking based on Population I don’t know..
Everyone knows WvW rankings are just population rankings. What they are asking is essentially: why shy away from a fight / opportunity for PvP?
When I’m roaming solo and I see a supply camp, I don’t try to take the camp so Mag gets a whole +5 points (if that capture even lasts until the point tick). I take it to try to draw enemies to the camp in order to gank some upleveled Rangers hopefully get an opportunity for a duel.
Couldn’t agree more, especially about ganking upleveled rangers dueling
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
and I have lots of access to stealth on demand, shadow refuge is predictable and pretty much overkill for a solo pvp build.
I would suggest swapping blinding powder with Shadow Refuge. SR is much more versatile due to being a combo field. You can AoE blind people with your shortbow if that’s the goal of having blinding powder or single target blind with HS.
There are also multiple avenues of healing available with Shadow Refuge. It’s really difficult to justify not having it on your bar.
ps – Signet of Shadows is pretty much a requirement for WvW
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
A few hundred badges for the first two nights of the matchup is a good indicator of the action. Really active battlefields this week. If you’re looking for a fight just walk 50 yards in any direction.
The battle for second place is really tight right now. I can’t imagine we’d lose participation with this level of action (except maybe in the jumping puzzles). There are some large Maguuma groups you have to watch out for but we’ve also had some really good extended battles. Overall, the target-rich environment is much more fun than hitting doors. Hopefully CD and Maguuma are enjoying the fights as well.
Attachments:
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
If players want balance they have to create it themselves through teaming up with other servers to take down the largest force on the map(s). Arenanet gave us the perfect method of dealing with zergs and imbalance, all we have to do is use it.
Actually, they didn’t. Aside from collaborating on which targets for each server to attack, there isn’t much that can be done, and even then it’s next to impossible to coordinate such things around the clock. No way, for example, that DR and IoJ could team up on the same battlefield to counter an SBI zerg as you suggest … AoE’s don’t honor agreements.
It was being done way back in DAOC under the exact same circumstances over a decade ago. The fact that this generation of gamers can’t seem to pull it off doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.
The reason you can’t just “turn them green” is because they don’t want you to get too comfortable with your temporary allies. You’re still supposed to be accountable for your actions (i.e. pay attention to what your AoEing) and putting the alliance at risk with poor gameplay is part of that accountability.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
I’m not even going to comment on the idea that having only two sides per match would make WvW easier to balance. Have you never played any of the games that attempted that?
It’s just math, balancing two things is easier than balancing three. Just because no one has managed to do it doesn’t change the math behind the theory.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Last night I led the EB force for some good times, and before I left with my group to go to IoJ’s BL, we had painted the whole of EB green. While at IoJ’s BL, we encountered a large group of DR which had no uplevels and all of which played together exceedingly well.
I’m guessing you aren’t the Charr warrior commander from [VZ] that was in IoJ BL last night.
That was some of the largest DR forces I’ve seen this week in IoJ BL last night, nice turnout!
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
I have never seen a balanced match up in the history of the game. Someone is always ruining someone else’s kitten and then congratulating themselves about it, even though there is almost no way in hell they could have lost. It can get under your skin after a while.
That’s because no one plays WvW the way it was meant to be played. It might as well be two servers instead of three. The whole reason three servers is the magic number is to keep larger forces in check. IoJ and DR working together could have really hurt us.
If arenanet’s goal was to have balanced matchups in every tier there would be absolutely no need for three servers to be involved in the conflict. In fact, having three servers actually makes it more difficult to balance the tiers. If players want balance they have to create it themselves through teaming up with other servers to take down the largest force on the map(s). Arenanet gave us the perfect method of dealing with zergs and imbalance, all we have to do is use it.
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
I hope the weeks of zergstomping this tier have been kind to you SBI. Enjoy your stay in t4, I for one can’t wait to lurk the t4 thread just waiting for your complaining about getting zerged and being outmanned
Do you honestly think that Maguuma is going to zerg us worse than Yak’s Bend, Tarnished Coast or Sanctum of Rall? We were getting crushed consistently yet somehow the discussions remained civil week after week.
It’s understandable that you guys have been frustrated the past few weeks and you’ve taken that frustration out in our forum threads. Hopefully the matchups will favor your server more in the near future which will result in better discussions for all involved. Good luck…
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
Respect of the other servers nah You’ll get non specially since ya resorted to doing what ya did today to take our map from us because we was whooping you without really trying all that hard even with your superior numbers.
…and you guys wonder why you get camped. It’s honestly like the only game you’ve ever played is WoW or something
Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)
