Guild Wars 2

Morsus.5106:

Manasa Devi.7958:

If we’re not going to rebuild it, why are we having a battle over it?

Because Scarlet is there.

No, she’s not. We killed her and we’re still fighting.

If we’re not going to rebuild it, why are we having a battle over it?

When you salvage thousands worth of luck essence every day and need ten-thousands worth of it to advance your magic find by a single percent, finding a tiny bit of luck essence in a BL chests feels like being the butt of a bad joke.

Jaggedrain.6923:

The point is that it should not be hard to coordinate 150 people enough to take down the three knights.

That would be a relevant point if it was at all feasible to get 150 motivated people in one map in the first place.

Leablo.2651:

I’ve also tried forcing guest overflow, but the last time I did that, we managed to kill the knights, and then I got put into a hologram battle where there were literally 3 players – apparently the drill platform itself is separate from the LA instance and supports a SMALLER number of players than allowed in LA where everyone fights the knights. You get overflow upon overflow. The fact that this can even happen is astoundingly stupid. You really think it’s fair to have players go through the struggles of getting the knights down and then follow up by sending them to a situation that is impossible to win?

The drill platform is in the same LA instance for everyone that goes through a portal after defeating the knights. The problem is, there are 3 separate rooms that each have their own version of the hologram battle. I have no idea what method they use to distribute people among these rooms though. I’ve also seen hologram fights with very few people. Maybe it’s bugged, or maybe it happens because some people just kill the knights for loot and don’t participate in the hologram fight.

Another thing, special buffs/debuffs on myself take ages to read because I can’t keep the icon hightlighted with my mousepointer. They keep jumping all over the place because of the continuous gaining and losing of boons and conditions. Very awkward.

First champion I killed gave me a heap of champion boxes and a green. It was half dead before I arrived, and I didn’t do amazing DPS because I still had to figure out the fight, and I was pulled close a few times.

Every knight after that, about 6 of them, I participated from the start, and DPSed the kittens out of them using the damage buff pools whenever possible. Gold medals every time, but no loot at all.

Surely this has nothing to do with my damage contribution.

Keneth.6490:

The real problem is getting on your server to even try to do this. Because it sure as hell isn’t gonna happen on overflow. At least in the previous release you could zone fast enough to get to your own server. I’ve been hanging around LA all evening today and didn’t even get a chance to leave overflow.

I’ve been playing since shortly after the patch went live. I haven’t had a chance to get on my server either. To make matters worse, the overflows I’m on lose players over time, making it impossible to get anything done. When that happens, I have to either sit around in a barren overflow instance doing nothing for who knows how long until I might get a chance to travel to my main server, or log off and back on to get on a different overflow where I can at least play, but losing my place in the queue in the process.

Really, of all the overflow issues burdening down the LS events, this one takes the cake.

Cyvien.8049:

While I respect your parochial assumption (in order to conform with forum and social etiquette), I would also like to propose a counter argument. So it begins….

AFKing has never been a crime, but the situation in LA makes it “inappropriate” if you believe in situation ethics which many people don’t*.
This can be alleviated by a more complete and sensible system which reward players according to their accomplishment.
To complicate this situation even more, active but non-contributing players are left unpunished which raised the question of the validity of this situation ethics. Why only afk players are discriminated against?

After reading my arguments, hopefully it will shred some light of how big the problem actually is, and not to quickly judge and discriminate against a single group.

*An example of situation ethic is “taking a human life is unacceptable but abortion due to inability to raise the child is acceptable.” See how controversial it is.

I dare say this whole mess has nothing to do with situation(al) ethics at all. Let’s leave god out of it please.

We make the people we encourage feel better about themselves.

“If this moaning dimwit can survive this mess, I sure can!”

Kal Spiro.9745:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Taking advantage of a poorly designed system that fully allows for that advantage as a legitimate occurrence is not, in any way, the same as an exploit.

ANet has shown numerous times that they don’t agree with that.

How so?

When has ANet ever infracted someone for playing their game based on the built in design of the game? People have been infracted for making use of design flaws, legitimate design flaws, that were never intended to exist. Those are exploits.

Going AFK is an intended game design. It is only flawed in that you and others here think it is flawed. Not because it was actually designed incorrectly.

Gaining rewards for the event without actually participating in the event is not necessarily a good design choice, but neither is it a flaw. They could have required participation in some part of the event. They chose not to. Therefore it was intended that nonparticipation is valid. The expectation being that nonparticipation would most likely lower rewards inspiring participation.

A poor design choice is not the same as a design flaw. Gaining the benefit of a poor design choice is not the same as exploiting a design flaw.

Rewarding people for not doing anything at all drives people to go there and not do anything at all. This causes the group of active players to be unnecessarily splintered among overflow instances that all have a less than optimal number of active players to partake of content that requires active players. This makes it highly likely that the content does not play out as intended.

If you don’t think this is a design flaw, further discussions seems pointless.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Taking advantage of a poorly designed system that fully allows for that advantage as a legitimate occurrence is not, in any way, the same as an exploit.

ANet has shown numerous times that they don’t agree with that.

Kal Spiro.9745:

The point is intent. Not the intent of the player, but the intent of the Developer. While the Devs most likely did not expect people to afk, the design of the event intends that it’s possible.

Source on that intent? Or is it just an assumption on your part? The same goes for the rest of your post that I won’t bother quoting.

There’s this thing called “intention” that determines how actions are judged. Innocent actions that have incidental bad side-effect are not at all the same as actions that strive to achieve bad effects on purpose.

I don’t know if it shows, but I’m being sarcastic.

I think it’s nonsensical game design to have achievements that don’t require much in the way of playing, and worse, achievements that you are less likely to get if everyone who wants them participates in the events that need to be done for them.

Sitting on your hands while the world burns is never a good tactic. (Cf. the attack on Pearl Harbor.)

Taygus.4571:

I got it, by using cripple and stuff as I passed through it. XD ..
I didn’t even remember if I had touched 2 other miasma events.

It’s not that hard if people jump (aim for bronze) and run off, Smaller groups can beat this very easy and you don’t have to actually BE there to get the achieve. (like I said do enough for bronze and go away).
These events are not suitable for zerg mentality. I see them fail over and over again when they’re zerged.

Yeah, I can’t state this often enough! What are people thinking, actually participating in events that need to be completed to earn their achievements. What a noobish mentality.

glaphen.5230:

You get the achievement even if you didn’t tag a single one the entire time.

That does seem to be the running theme with this content: don’t participate in the thing you want done, and you’ll be fine!

Go afk for loot!

Don’t participate in events you need for achievements, or your mere presence will make them fail!

I wish it looked like a halo instead of a metallic hoop.

The achievement counts unique piles of rubble you collected from, so repeated piles don’t count.

Yeah, great design.

“Hey all you guys who want to do this event to complete an achievement, go away! You’re making it too hard!”

Leo Paul.1659:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

As the players who keep defending this like to say, it was a design flaw. Taking advantage of a design flaw is exploiting the game. Using an exploit is against the TOS.
So by the arguments given here my the AFK crowd, in their own words, they are using an exploit and should be suspended/banned.

End of story.

There is no bug or glitch or game vulnerability to exploit in this regard. If it was a design flaw then it should’ve been fixed days ago. People are just not playing how you want them to.

Exploits aren’t restricted to just glitches or game vulnerabilities.

Leo Paul.1659:

That’s griefing. -_- How do you know that that person went AFK because he just wants to leech or is doing something important IRL?

How do you know he’s not going to thank you and run off to play after you revive him?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

So what you’re saying is, people aren’t trying to get into main LA and I’m just a strange hiccup? I know for a fact that people are constantly trying to get into LA main. My entire guild has been able to ferry in (while sitting still in overflows) by spamming join. It’s something hundreds of people are doing, and yes, eventually it’s too late and you can’t get in.

Anyway, at peak times, enter through blood tide coast. It pops earlier than gendarran. Right before it ends be at the portal. The second event finishes jump in.

I’ve not failed to get into TC LA once while trying, is my point.

People are probably not spamming join after it failed once. The only extra places on the main server that’ll pop up after it failed once, are the ones caused by disconnecting people. I’m not playing the content anymore (because I think it sucks), but I have it on good authority that the best way to get on your main server is to log off at xx:50 in a previous run, and change back to the character at xx:05

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Honestly, even on my super huge server, if I try to enter the event right at the beginning or within 15 minutes I can usually eventually taxi in. There’s really no reason you can’t get into your server’s lions arch if you are right there as soon as the opening event finishes.

That line of reasoning doesn’t work. It only works because not everyone is doing what you’re saying. If everyone, say 500 people on your server, followed your advice, the vast majority wouldn’t arrive on the main server.

ShibVicious.9681:

I’m not really upset by the 50s purchase, the text explains that you’ll be buying a “statue” and it lets you know the price before you agree to it.

I did read the text completely and carefully. It’s not clear at all that you’re buying something you can’t take with you, or that you can get an identical bonus for yourself at a fraction of the price. Sure, it’s nice that other people can use it as well, but there’s no indication at all that it’s something like that.

When an NPC that seems grateful that I just saved its bacon offers me something special, I tend to expect a reward, not being ripped off. But hey, when it happened to me I was talking to Evon Gnashblade, so I guess I should’ve known better than to trust that kitten.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I don’t think they do, but they’re useful for altoholics like myself, cheap leveling backpieces… cheap exotic backpieces with the choice of stats… I don’t think I’ll be able to hoard enough blades tbh but I can see why folks might not have a use…

If only they’d been there a few months ago, when I still had characters below level 80.

Seras.5702:

Congratulations. Everyone else did what was needed while you reaped the rewards doing nothing productive. Your story is anecdotal and proves nothing. The facts of the event remain.

I was doing something productive. I got heirlooms, 50 bags and an achievement. I was burdened with the reward for something I had no intention of being a part of. Anecdotal or not, the story proves what I said in my opening statement: “The zone-wide achievements are rubbish and indicative of nothing.” You can be the best player ever and fail the achievements time and time again because you can’t control other players, or you can get the achievements without even being aware that you were in the running for them during your time in the zone. Rubbish.

Seras.5702:

Nothing learned? That’s your short-coming. Clearly you’re not enjoying the event and that’s your prerogative. You judge the mechanics by your achievements and not the success of the event. I’m glad you’re not going back in because I’d like to think the people in my overflow are working together for higher rewards.

It’s not my shortcoming, it’s the content’s shortcoming. I got achievements for free. Any further effort on my part to learn about those achievements is time wasted, because I can’t do them again. Knowing about them has no practical purpose, nor any theoretical value at this time. The game robbed me of the opportunity to play for them by awarding them undeservedly. I consider it rubbish content anyway, so I don’t really care either way.

Lastly, I find it extremely saddening that something with such amazing graphical design and depth of detail in the look-and-feel, is brought low by such weak gameplay.

Seras.5702:

The fault isn’t with the event. The fault lies with the selfish & lazy zergers who want to autoattack en masse for blue bags rather than win the event. Effort is required to save 1500 instead of 600.

And as for people still zerging and not learning, I recently got my Triple Play achievement yesterday. That’s a zone-wide achievement and it means people are learning how to play properly rather than mindlessly zerging for loot. Anet doesn’t have to spell it out for us. We should have to learn the right mechanics & strategy to win.

The zone-wide achievements are rubbish and indicative of nothing. I completed almost all achievements without lifting a finger or even realizing what I needed to do for them. I still don’t know that for some of them, and don’t care to, because I already have them. It happened when I was just exploring and looking for rubble. I just needed to do some more escort events and some of the events that spawn at 40 minutes.

Mission accomplished, nothing learned, not planning to go back in there because it’s boring. The events are lazily designed, all just about killing mobs, even the escort events. You can do your very best to keep the madly dashing NPCs alive and succeed brilliantly, yet not get credit for the event, because you didn’t kill a monster. Asinine!

All that killing wouldn’t be so bad if there was even a single interesting fight to be had anywhere. But no, nothing new, just run-of-the-mill mobs all over the place and even the 3 boss-kill events at the end are sadly uninvolving. I’m not going to bother even trying to go for the 1500 citizen rewards. Going back in there on the off-chance that enough people there give a kitten , that’s not worth 45 minutes of my time. And I won’t blame anyone for not giving kitten , because I can’t give one myself.

It is their fault. There is no encouragement for saving citizens. There is plenty of encouragement to do events. If I see 30 people camping the lighthouse for the entirety of a 45 minute run so they can retry the escort event that starts there again and again, that’s the developer’s fault, because they encouraged people to do that.

One problem with this release is that the achievements run counter to the objective of rescuing citizens. All kinds of things are awarded with achievement points, but not rescuing citizens, or being part of reaching a higher rescue tier. Very odd.

When the skritt fled the city, they coincidentally all headed for the same gate. That gate was jammed due to the large crowds of people all trying to leave at once. A lot of skritt got caught in that jam. A lot of skritt in one place, that’s when interesting things happen. A few meaningful glances shared, and a plan was hatched then and there, the ultimate weapon against Scarlet, the Elder Dragons and indeed, anything mean and shiny-depriving in the whole world. When the skritt return, there will be a reckoning.

I think someone cut Canach and grew a second one from the cutting, because there are two of them now. One in his familiar cage in LA, and one in a cage in Vigil Keep.

ryokoalways.3450:

Unfortunately, the loot distribution is suffering from Scarlet invasion syndrome; You get more loot from the kills rather than completion. Therefore, no one will try to do the event to succeed just like the invasions.

I’ll elabotate on that for a bit.

The best run I’ve done with regard to the saving of citizens was just over 800. The award for that was 3 standard citizen’s rescue bags (the green ones). I believe the 15 bags of alliance supplies that were awarded when Magnus called it a day at the end are also determined by number of citizens saved, but I could be wrong. I’m assuming the better rescue bags mentioned on the wiki are awarded at 900, 1200, 1500. Point being, getting to 800 was not rewarding at all compared to loot drops.

I’ve done quite a few runs, and getting to 800 was by far the most I’ve seen, usually it’s a struggle to get near 500. Getting people organized seems like an impossible task. Overflows where 5 different languages are spoken, that doesn’t help. Achievements that run counter to the objective of rescuing citizens, also not helping. People camping the lighthouse or the moa spawn point are not going to help rescue many citizens.

When getting a big enough citizen count to get better rewards is unlikely verging on the impossible, why bother doing anything other than the thing that does fill your pockets? (And by the way, I get better loot roaming solo and picking my fights than running in a zerg. Probably because I have trouble tagging mobs because I stubbornly play a character I like rather than a character that would be good at tagging mobs, but whatever…)

I’m afraid those previous LS rewards are just the zhaitaffy and candy corn you can trade for Found Belongings. I haven’t seen anything else so far.

I bought the sharpening stone one sight unseen, a waste of 5 gold.

That’ll teach me not to wiki everything this game introduces before diving in. A preposterous idea anyway, playing a game without researching it thoroughly. What was I thinking?

Marcello is probably fine, sitting on a beach somewhere sipping fancy drinks and resting his feet on a big bag of Wintersday donation gold.

One thing that bothers me about the LA battlefield is the relatively long time of invulnerability that enemies enjoy after spawning, before they start acting. When there’s a lot of players stacking AoEs underneath them, anything less than elite mobs tends to evaporate instantly as soon as that invulnerability wears off.

I suspect this might be contributing to some players not receiving credit for events. It sure can’t help if large amounts of mobs can’t possibly be tagged at all by people playing characters that don’t stack circles of instant death all over the place.

andrew.1798:

The main problem is the core game mechanic where “everyone can do everything.” Because there is no “trinity”, all you’re left with is damage dealer that can also do “x” ability. Since everyone can deal damage.. all there is left is just mobbing up which, I agree, can get stale over time.

Fortunately, zerging is not the best way to complete this map

No, the best way is to not do very much at all while other people get you your achievements.

Nausiation.1469:

lol k so OP wants a small group to retake an entire city. Thank god he isn’t a game developer.

A city-under-siege situation shouldn’t be boring, regardless of how many people are running around in it.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

If you can’t tag a lot of mobs, you’re screwed. Which is basically a flaw in the gameplay mechanic of choosing how you want to play since if you’re specced for support with not much fir power, aoe or cleave damage, you are awarded with nothing. Hence the zerker dps zerg blobs killing everything and anything in a matter of seconds.

And to compound matters, mobs are invulnerable for a for a few seconds after spawning. Any skill use that doesn’t involve dropping an AoE with a few seconds duration on them is wasted during this time, and people not running with such skills are left watching how the stacked AoEs vaporize the enemies instantly when they lose their invulnerability. Really awful.

“Boring” would be my choice of a one word review.

First impression: boring as hell. Second impression: still boring as hell and also annoying. Will play it a bit for loot and achievements probably. Next patch in 2 weeks please.

Ain’t gonna play Southsun City.

Oh come on, just log off in LA. Quickest way to get going with the new content.

Bubi.7942:

I guess Gift of Battle (battle not required) makes sense in that strange universe many people seem to live in.

It fits perfectly with GW2’s Legendary Weapons (legend not available). Not doing battle for a Gift of Battle to make a Legendary Weapon that has no legend. Perfect!

I don’t see how you come to that conclusion.

Maybe he tried before there was such a thing as World Rank? It wasn’t added until about 6 months after release.

Bubi.7942:

All that time wasted, all that waiting, when you could have gotten it in about 1-2 days with actually playing.

Sad.

Play PvE, zone into home server borderlands for city services when you need city services anyway, look at map, do some map completion if map looks advantageous, go back to playing PvE. Not a second wasted on WvW or waiting. Also, money saved on WP to cities.

Mikuchan.7261:

Elementalists can benefit quite a bit from healing since their water heals alot. However there’s also the problem that they lack toughness and vitality so elementalists may die before getting to use the healing. Useful against flat dps but worthless against spikes.

They are nerfing the critical damage part of zerker gear, which may make it more worth it to get Power Precision Vitality/Toughness/Healing instead. But I’m by no means a min/maxer so I can’t say for sure.

Also, with critical-triggered sigils not sharing the same cooldown anymore, which I believe is going to happen along with the critical damage change, it might be interesting to run with sigils of blood and water, or 1 of those and an offensive sigil like fire or air. Might not be worth it, it all depends on the specifics of the upcoming changes.