Guild Wars 2

Zetsumei.4975:

MethaneGas.8357:

I’m sitting here… in awe at the negativity. Ahhh…. a fresh air of negativity – a perfect start to any day.

Fyi guard won’t be anywhere near as good as a Necro in applying condis. Plz. What? Traps, you say? Were they stun breaks? Nope. Were they ranged? Nope… can a guardian get good poisons/bleeds/torment? Still nope. Can they get good burning? Yes. Ok…. so burning and a stationary bay-blade trap which you have to trait for somehow outshine the Necro class. #logic

Actually if you watch the stream he puts 16 or so bleeds on in an instant

That was with 2 traps on an NPC which stood in his traps. The two traps he used both have a 45 second cooldown. So 16 bleed stacks every 45 seconds… which means that you will have only 1 stun break xD Unless you trait for your F3 to be a stun break… which means you’d lose out on Permeating Wrath (trait which makes your F1 burn around your target).
It looks good on paper but in sPvP… unless you are REALLY coordianted… people aren’t going to stand in your traps like that… and even if they do, a single cleanse could remove everything.

Edit: Procession of Blades = 10 bleeds and Light’s Judgement = 10 more bleeds over 10 seconds (1 bleed each second in an area). Epidemic still king.

I’m sitting here… in awe at the negativity. Ahhh…. a fresh air of negativity – a perfect start to any day.

Fyi guard won’t be anywhere near as good as a Necro in applying condis. Plz. What? Traps, you say? Were they stun breaks? Nope. Were they ranged? Nope… can a guardian get good poisons/bleeds/torment? Still nope. Can they get good burning? Yes. Ok…. so burning and a stationary bay-blade trap which you have to trait for somehow outshine the Necro class. #logic

While I do agree that there’s a lot of poopy things about certain aspects of Necro… I think it’s actually not as far down the rabbit hole as most people think. I think in PvE… it honestly shouldn’t be a problem. I still don’t get the complaints about it… I play condi Necro in PvE with my guildies here and there and I don’t think I felt useless once. Sure in mega-speed runs Necros aren’t desired but from my understanding it’s 90% warriors anyway, so it’s not even entirely a Necro issue. And even if it was terrible, we shouldn’t clamor without seeing the Necro spec and GS. For all we know GS might be something like a warrior’s GS and this issue could be fixed. In WvW Necro is beastly – it has a place in roaming, and it has a place in zergs. In sPvP Necro is harder to pull off (in higher end sPvP) but it’s still pretty good. I think it should be buffed in sPvP personally because when you compare an sPvP Necro to a WvW Necro it’s almost like a different game.

Why can’t they use utility skills in Death Shroud?
-I agree that this could be allowed and it wouldn’t be OP. Wells can already be combined with Deathly Perception, spectrals already work in Deathshroud… I think asking for this seems reasonable and not even close to OP because almost all of the things already work while in DS. You can EASILY cast most things and enter DS to get the same effect as if you were casting it while in DS. Different sequence of events but exactly the same outcome. If anything, allowing utilities to be usable while in DS would be a quality of life improvement. The real question is whether the heal skill is usable in Deathshroud. Would this reduce our need to receive healing in Deathshroud? It might.
Would it be OP? Maybe, but not likely, especially in sPvP where you can burst through Deathshroud in a blink of an eye. If you pop into DS and use your heal skill, and remain in DS for some time, your heal skill will slowly be coming off of cooldown, meaning you’ll be able to use it more often and thus, more sustain. Either way, I don’t think using just utilities (skills 7-9) in Deathshroud would be something that would push the profession over the line.

Why is the Death Shroud cooldown so long?
I agree with this. 10 seconds is, in my opinion, too long. Sure, you can trait for it so it is 7 seconds (which is pretty amazing imo), but you have to give up other stuff like Soul Marks… and what’s the point in having a 7-second DS if you can’t generate it.
I think a possible solution could be to either a) Make Soul Marks baseline so that we get some nice sustain with staff and can easily pick up Close to Death or b) Make Close to Death baseline.

Why do they offer no group utility?
In my opinion this isn’t really needed. Maybe in PvE but in WvW and sPvP Necro can provide good support for allies if you aren’t the one being focused (chills, cripples, daze, fears). I think maybe it was meant as “guardian-like-support” but… we may get that with our spec.

Why are two out of three of its elites awful?
Golem is decent… Plague is godly, and Lich is pretty crazy. Lich and Plague are kind of situational and you gotta know when to use em, but they can be really strong.

Why does it have so little access to powerful combo fields?
I think the bigger issue is lack of combo finishers. A simple blast here and there would go a long way, in my opinion. If there was a trait which made entering Deathshroud a blast, for example. Off-hand dagger and warhorn could perhaps get a blast, Reaper’s Touch a projectile finisher, Weakening Shroud being a blast, etc.

Why is the Blood Magic trait line so poor?
I agree it’s unappealing and sub-par xD

Why is Life Force so fragile when the profession has no reliable means of escape or defence?
The profession can get away quite well but the problem is in sPvP you have to sacrifice a lot to get the same survivalblity as in WvW, and your damage is probably twice as bad. I think if lifeforce was more plentiful (for example Soul Marks baseline), it would help a lot with this. So… more tankyness through life-force generation = less need to escape.

I think the class does have some issues here and there but I don’t feel like it’s as terrible as some people think. For example.. to date, I’ve only seen about 3 other Necros properly use Flesh Wurm in sPvP in over 2k games.

I doubt Necros wil get huge mobility. We might get SOME.. but Necro isn’t supposed to be mobile. The only thing is… if they start thinking of the new specialization as “not Necro”.. it wouldn’t have those limitations associated with it it… so who knows what we’ll get. I think max one leap or guardian-like teleport (requiring a target). Maybe a ground targeted AoE damage leap skill like revenants. Either way, I think mobility shouldn’t be the focus. I dunno what they can do tbh cuz if they made sPvP Necros like WvW Necros…. somehow… all QQ would stop xD cuz I honestly have no issues with Necro in WvW.

As for support, I think Necros can support with hard/soft CC and tanking but can’t really support like a shout guard or warr. If we do get shouts, this playstyle might become available which I’m excited about but I can’t fathom playing without Wurm or SWalk. I don’t think Necros will become homogenized at all… and I disagree that every class can do what Necro can do, but better.

And well said Cogbyrn

Video of the interrupts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qC683NhgRk&feature=youtu.be

NeXeD.3042:

Incorrect it’s only ds4. You can even squeeze one last lifeblast out even if ds ends. I do it all the time.

Dark path also still connects as long as you shot the projectile. I usually shoot it, drop ds switch to daggers and go to town. was still working for me yesterday.

Maybe it works with Life Blast, I dunno.. it does not work with Dark Path and Tainted Shackles, or life transfer.
Sure… Dark Path can hit if you summon the projectile and exit DS, that’s common knowledge but if you are casting the skills and mid-cast DS runs out, they get interrupted. I’ve had it happen to me while casting Dark Path AND Tainted Shackled.. and of course, Life Transfer. I assumed it was the same for Life Blast. I’ll check right now
Edit: just checked in WvW NPCs. Life Blast gets interupted when you cast it and DS runs out.

quBit.6437:

other deathshroud skill were always like that, channels stop when dropping out of deathshroud. however, projectiles still fly and apply their effects and also the #5 skill keeps doing its thing if the cast was completed before leavin deathshroud.

Nah… Dark path, life blast and Tainted shackles were all cast-able after your deathshroud runs out.
For example… you cast Dark Path and WHILE it’s being channeled your deathshroud runs out, your character will continue casting the spell even though you are not in deathshroud anymore.
Now NONE of the Deathshroud skills will finish if your lifeforce runs out.

It’s not just life transfer… it’s every Deathshroud skill.
It sucks.

I’d be happy if we’re Ritualists with shouts. I can’t really see a ritualist with a sword… but as you said.. Marjory probably has the specialization just how Rytlock has Revenant so it’s not far off. EIther way, I’d be happy with shouts, especially if they are able to support your team in some interesting way or debuff enemies. Soldier’s runes on a Necro would be pretty nice, and I can only imagine the traits we’d be able to get…
“Each time you use a shout, transfer one condition from you to a nearby foe” or something like that. With Unholy Martyr and soldier’s runes, could be quite nice. Picking up condis from allies and transferring them to enemies through shouts.
Or… “Each time you use a shout, nearby enemies are slowed” …
Have a shout that taunts all nearby enemies + slows them and… weaken? Why not?

Would be cool to get something that’s like GW1 Curses Necro where you disable your enemies.

LOL I think they’re just trolling trying to be funny by calling shout warriors braindead. I wouldnt take it seriously. Most people know better.

This is sort of a theorycraft but it’s basically an upgrade of my existing build…

Curses: Weakening Shroud, Banshee’s Wail (or path of corruption. I think Banshee’s Wail would make me near unkillable though… and a 3 second AoE daze is just wow), Terror.
Death: Shrouded Removal (became one of my favorite traits to pair with warhorn), Reaper’s Protection, Unholy Sanctuary.
Soul Reaping: Soul Marks, Spectral Mastery, Foot in the Grave or Dhuumfire. I think I’d end up going with Dhuumfire for more damage, since I didn’t grab Path of Corruption, but Foot in the grave would synergize with Unholy Martyr. I dunno.

If they made Soul Marks baseline, that would open up the Adept slot in Soul Reaping, which would allow one to take Speed of Shadows (30% DS cooldown reduction). If this happens… boy oh boy…
Banshee’s Wail for extreme sustain, Furious Demise more often, for more crits and thus more bleeds from Barber Precision, Shrouded Removal (on a 7 sec cooldown, also synergizing with Unholy Martyr), Beyond the Veil (very nice protection uptime, also synergizes with Unholy Martyr), and if one grabs Foot in the Grave… you get the picture. With Soul Marks as baseline the build would go from “wow” to * drop the mic and walk off stage because you’re too beastly for your own good*.

The second build I might play with is
Spite: Bitter Chill, Chill of Death (nice boon removal for sPvP, along with vulnerability) OR Death Shiver. Death Shiver is more reliable in terms of applying vulnerability which is also AoE and helps allies… it’s also a free (and consistent) condi cover. Tough Choice imo. And Unholy Feast for another condi cover (cripple) some nice retal and AoE boon removal. I see potential with Signet of Locust, but not in this build.
Curses: Chill of Darkness with dagger off-hand for chills + vulnerability from Bitter Chill. Would work on Plague as well. Path of Corruption for more boon removal and Terror. Lingering Curses would work here as well because it would make the chills and vulnerability unbelievable long. If Chill of Darkness remains at 2 second chills, that would make it a 4 second chill with Deathly Swarm. Ice Sigil would also be 4 seconds… The condi output with Plague would also double… Tough choice.
Soul Reaping: Anything… with Soul Marks. If Soul Marks is made baseline, there is no need to really go into Soul Reaping.

I also want to try the New Unholy Martyr with sigils of generosity.
Blood: Mark of Evasion, Transfusion, Unholy Martyr
Death:Shrouded Removal would work nicely to clear condis before going to DS to pick up more (lol). Greater Marks and Unholy Sanctuary.
Soul Reaping: I think Speed of shadows would really work great in this build. If not, then Soul Marks. If Soul Marks was made baseline, then you could have both. Soul Marks would also synergize with Mark of Evasion… and if Mark of Evasion was affected by staff cooldowns (which it currently isn’t)… moar synergy! Spectral Mastery would make you a tank, but so would Vital Persistence. I dunno which would be better. The last trait would depend on whether you’re power or condi.

This last build would probably be some kind of tank Necro that’s in the frontlines taking hits with their second health bar oh oops I mean Deathshroud ( ).

flow.6043:

Staff Mastery: merged Greater Marks and mark cd reduction.

I would move a merged staff trait either away from Soul Reaping or at least promote it to SR master tier so it doesn’t overshadow other traits too much.

baseline for marks: 1% life force per hit, instead of a static 3% on trigger to give it a scaling effect in team fights.

I think these ideas are great. Merging the staff traits in some way would actually open up a lot of options for Necros.
-Add 20% staff cooldowns to Greater Marks
-Make Soul Marks baseline for Necro. This trait is really powerful, so the numbers could be played with (doesn’t have to be 3%). It would improve Necro sustain without a doubt, hands down.

flow.6043:

One more idea:

If they merge Greater Marks and Soul Marks the empty spot could be filled by bringing back Decaying Swarm: At 25% health, you become surrounded by a locust swarm.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decaying_Swarm

I like this idea a lot. The only problem with this is that it could reveal you if you’re low on health and yell to your allies “stealth me guys!” and they stealth you and bam… locust swarm. If you don’t rely on allies’ stealth, this trait would be awesome though – it would synergize with Banshee’s Wail too. It might be too strong for a minor though, especially when we consider it can last 15 seconds. Assuming you had warhorn as well, that would be 30 seconds of Locust Swarms! This trait is grandmaster worthy, in my opinion – perhaps a new blood/death/curses grandmaster?

Blood Magic:
-Even though I don’t use it, I’m a fan of Unholy Martyr, especially with the 10% lifeforce now. I think it synergizes well with Vital Persistence. Imagine having Soul Marks as baseline, grabbing Speed of Shadows (for DS cooldown), running Vital Persistence and Unholy Martyr. If you mixed in Shrouded Removal too.. would be really, really tanky. Anyway…
-Mark of Evasion is fine, but I think it would be even better if it had no internal cooldown, but had lower bleeds/regen. This MAY be too strong, but it works with Soul Marks —> more sustain. It would also be a really good tool to remove blinds (dodge, remove your blind so you’re free to cast something else).
-I think I’m a fairly optimistic person, but I don’t find any of the Blood Magic Master traits really appealing… for example… consider Path of Corruption in curses… that’s WOW for a Master’s trait. Blood magic doesn’t have comparable “WOW” Master traits.

Weakening Shroud:
I see why they nerfed this. It was likely because of the new Lingering Curses. You could have a crazy weakness uptime on people with 100% weakness duration but I feel like it would be much better the way it now. No cooldown and a small boost to Deathshroud and when people focus you by having on-demand weakness. 25 seconds is simply too much.
I think if Mark of Evasion and Weakening Shroud had no internal cooldown, you could have an interesting playstyle right there – dodging and entering DS to cause bleeds… which could also synergize nicely with Barber Precision and on-hit / on-crit sigils.

That is all for now… I’m personally happy with Spite, Curses, Death Magic and Soulreaping traitlines overall, but there’s quite a few things that could be tweaked / added which would make a huge difference.

flow.6043:

I take it you mean a positive “horrible”, as in, both traits are good and you can’t decide easily? That’d be good imo.
I think having both of those traits would overshadow all other options too much, perhaps they do so already even without the addition of Greater Marks?
That’s why I suggested a merged staff trait would switch places with Master of Terror.

Yeah I mean a positive horrible haha. The choice would be too difficult and would affect WvW Necros quite a bit imo.

flow.6043:

In my current build I use staff – axe/warhorn with all respective weapon traits. Soul Marks was never that appealing to me because my life force regen is very solid.
So unless we get a merged staff trait, after the patch those 4 traits will be in 4 different lines, which means I can’t have them all.
Curses is too good to give up, so it’s really any combination of Spite – DM – SR that I’d have to worry about.
Personally, the new Spite line looks most appealing, but then I’d cripple the staff.
Soul Reaping is easily a better trait line than Death Magic, but Greater Marks is more valuable than the mark cd reductions.
In short: the struggle is real! I have no idea what I’d do -_-

Yeah >__>
Still though, if you went Spite/Curses/SR you’d be in a pretty good spot I think… but you’d lose Greater Marks, which is a hit…

I whole-heartedly agree with making Soul Marks baseline. I suggested this same thing before as well. It would solve so many issues with Necros. Condi Necros already have it hard in sPvP with having to choose between Master of Terror and Soul Marks. True that you’d be able to have both after the patch, but if Soul Marks were baseline, and the cooldown reduction went to Greater Marks…. holy mackamolly…

You’d be able to go Curses/Death/Soul Reaping and have Path of Corruption, Terror, Shrouded Removal, Greater Marks, Unholy Sanctuary, Speed of Shadows (which sucks except the DS cooldown… the DS cooldown is AWESOME), Master of Terror or Spectral Attunement, and any of the SR grandmasters. I think the sustain would go through the roof. The synergy between all of those traits would be really, really good… all because one trait became baseline.

I haven’t been able to keep up with the [Report] PvP Forum Specialist Report or Necro Spec Notes & Feedback threads but if the staff trait changes haven’t been suggested already… they definitely should!

Easterbunny.6170:

We lost 50% of our deathshroud buff in soul reaping, therefor any build that relies on that trait line got nerfed. yay.

All Necros got 15% increase in their lifeforce pool without any points needed in SR. If you pick SR as one of your 3 trait lines, you will get another 15% from the 3rd Minor trait. So we’re fine in that regard

I think only some people think that condi Necro got nerfed, not nearly all. I personally don’t think they’ll nerf our condi output… why would they? If that were the case… Barber Precision wouldn’t get a buff (20% condi duration and went from 2 sec bleed to 3 sec bleed). Chilling Darkness went from 1 sec to 2 secs. Both of those scale with Lingering Curses and yet they were buffed. Sure Lingering Curse will make condis last longer but if you take Lingering Curses:

a) it will apply to only your scepter / x weaponset (so if you swap, all that extra condi duration is now gone).
b) You have no terror damage. Your damage will be higher when using scepter (through condi duration) but you’ll have no damage from fears, and if you swap your weapon, your fears will STILL do no damage, and will lose all that duration. Keep in mind that Terrormancers can still get 65% fear duration (Master of Terror + Nightmare Runes), so the duration of fears from having Lingering Curses and having Master of Terror + Nightmare Runes isn’t far off. And also: damage.

You’re right, but in sPvP now you get your condi duration from Spite, runes and sigils (and some traits).
20 in spite —> 20% condi duration
Krait Runes --> 45% bleed duration

That’s 65% bleed duration, on top of having damage from Terror.
If you took the new Lingering Curses, you’d lose the damage from Terror.

Whether it hurts the class or not, I don’t know, but you’re right that they probably looked at all the existing conditions you can place and took 100% condi duration into consideration. I think that’s partially why Weakening Shroud was nerfed. It’s a tricky thing to think about because you gotta remember that it only applies to when you have scepter. If you’re forced to move to your second weapon set, you lose your condi duration. If you moved to staff, your bleeds, chills, poisons, and fear (which would do no damage what so ever) would be shorter. Your DS skills would also have low durations. So choosing between Lingering Curses and Terror is a good option to have imo. Both require you to give something up to get something else in return. Condi Necros deal good damage now even without using Lingering Curses, and we have yet to find out how they will handle % boon duration and % condi duration that professions lost from traits.

Sagat.3285:

Necro buff in sustain…other classes got power creep on both offense,defense and utility gr8 sustain the necro will have m8. They need an official red tag thread to actually make us even think “things are still in their air” for necro.

If we look at the most common Necro build in sPvP, the 0/6/4/0/4 build…
What will the new Necro (after the patch) get and what will it lose?

+Buffed Barbed Precision (went from 2 second bleed up to 3 second bleed, along with a free 20% bleed duration)
+New Target The Weak —> more crits to people with condis --> more bleeds from barbed precision
+Beyond the Veil – Protection when leaving DS —> better sustain
+Shrouded Removal – condi cleanse when entering DS --> better sustain
+Unholy Sanctuary —> Better sustain (synergizes nicely with Soul Marks)
+Soul Marks --> 3.3% life force per mark —> better sustain
+Foot in the Grave --> CC resistance —> sustain OR Dhuumfire --> more pressure from DS OR Death Perception for more crits —> more bleeds. Death Perception would synergize well with something like carrion because it would give you high crit chance, but you’d have power to build off of it too.

What would we lose?
-Path of Midnight – 15% DS cooldowns
-Nerfed Enfeebling Blood. This needs to be buffed and I hope it changes. The cooldown was likely extended so much because of the new Lingering Curse. If could potentially cause 4 seconds of weakness every 7 seconds. With the proposed duration of weakness (6 seconds) and Lingering Curse, you’d be able to put out 12 secs of weakness from Weakening shroud. If you mix in your dagger Enfeebling Blood (which would scale from Lingering Curse too for another 12 seconds), that’s hugggee weakness uptime. I still think that the proposed 25 sec cooldown is a bit too much, especially if a Necro doesn’t use Lingering Curses. I dunno. A good to alternative to Terrormancers could be Chilling Darkness because it now went from 1 sec chill to a 2 sec chill. This means it can scale REALLY good with condi duration / chill duration.

That’s only going off of the same trait spread.

I do agree that some other classes (like thieves and rangers… and engis) got some really crazy stuff though.

War Mourner.5168:

Honestly lingering curses is not healthy for the class.

How many times has anet balanced something based on the scenario of extreme min/maxing (max condi duration/boon duration etc)?

With an easily accessible trait like this that DOUBLES duration on every condition, every condition needs to be balanced with this trait in mind.

So even if this is a great trait or not, it will ruin diversity and hurt the class overall.

In regards to a non condition build specific GM trait, bringing back withering precision with a lower duration but no/low ICD would be great. I miss the days of stacking weakness with my power build.

Necros can already get 100% condi duration…. nothing new to see here.

What about condi Necro in sPvP?
Compared to now, I think we will be getting a buff. I could do a calculation for this as well but I don’t know if it’s necessary.

If you run 0/6/4/0/4 now, then with the new system you will basically gain two more grandmasters (including, potentially, Dhuumfre). You never relied on condi duration in that build so Lingering Curse will be irrelevant to that build, or so I think. You’d still have Path of Corruption, Terror, but you’d have additional things like Soul Marks, Shrouded Removal, Unholy Sanctuary, Dhuumfire (or foot in the grave), which are all buffs because they’re new things added to the build.

The ONLY nerf I can see is if you went into Spite and now you lost condi duration. However spite will now be really good (chills will cause vulnerability, which is a cover condi. You’ll also cause vulnerability when an enemy is low) and you will have more boon removal/additional AoE cripple from the Spite Grandmaster Spiteful Spirit. Whether that will make up for condi duration lost is debatable, but currently Necros don’t really rely on condi duration in sPvP and the damage is still good.
-If Lingering Curse increases the base duration of condis by 100%, it will be a really good alternative to Terror and could have crazy consequences. For example if you are able to get 30% condi duration from armor and 45% bleed duration from Krait Runes, your bleeds would be massive (17.5 seconds from scepter auto attack, for example).

I think Necros will be getting a buff in sPvP because their sustain will go up, which is what we need. Feel free to disagree, but that is just what I think (currently), although a lot of things are still up in the air.

Comparing Lingering Curses now with the damage we’d be able to put out after the patch:

Feel free to correct me if I missed something or did something wrong. Feel free to disagree. There were so many things to juggle and consider, but with some calculation, we can see how the duration of condis will change. I will do calculations for WvW/PvE first.

-Nightmare runes (15% condi duration)
-Koi Cakes (40% condi duration food)
-30 points in spite (30% condi duration)
-Superior Sigil of Malice (10% condi duration)

The above add up to 95% condi duration. If we are able to get 30% condi duration from armor after the patch (because we will lose it from spite), then before and after the patch, a Necro is able to get 95% condi duration.
-Lingering Curse is a Curses Grandmaster trait that increases the BASE duration of scepter condis, which stacks with the above 95% condi duration.

Blood / Rending /Putrid Curse:
Bleed Base: 5 seconds:
With Lingering Curse – Bleed Base: 6.65 sec
Bleeding with 95% condi duration, without Lingering Curse: 9.75 seconds
Bleeding with 95% condi duration, WITH Lingering Curse: 13 seconds

Poison Base: 4 seconds
With Lingering Curse – Poison Base: 5.32 sec
Poison with 95% condi duration, without Lingering Curse: 7.8 seconds
Poison with 95% condi duration, WITH Lingering Curse: 10.4 seconds

Grasping Dead
Bleeding Base : 7 seconds
With Lingering Curse – Bleed Base: 9.31 sec
Bleeding with 95% condi duration, without Lingering Curse: 13.65 seconds
Bleeding with 95% condi duration, WITH Lingering Curse: 18.1 seconds
Cripple Base: 5 sec
With Lingering Curse – Cripple Base: 6.65 sec
Cripple with 95% condi duration, without Lingering Curse: 9.75 seconds
Cripple with 95% condi duration, WITH Lingering Curse: 13 seconds
It seems that Necros have longer condi duration with Lingering Curses and thus, more damage.

What will happen after the patch?
-Necro condi damage remains at 95% IF you are able to get 30% condi duration from armor.
-Necro has to choose between Terror or Lingering Curse. This will really depend on the functionality of Lingering Curse. If Lingering Curse increases condi duration by a flat 100% and doesn’t stack with food, sigils, runes, then there will be no need to take Lingering Curse because you’ll be able to get the same condi duration without even using Lingering Curse. So you’ll be using Terror and won’t be using Lingering Curse.

Will this reduce damage?
Maybe.
-We will lose 3.25 seconds of bleed on scepter auto attack and 2.6 seconds of poison
-We will lose 4.45 seconds of bleeds from Grasping Dead (3 stacks) and 3.25 seconds of cripple.

What will we gain?
-Massive vulnerability application from Spite —> team will deal more damage
-Path of Corruption
-More bleeds from Target the Weak (increased crits against enemies with condis on them)
-Changed Dhuumfire – whether it will be stronger or weaker or the same is yet to be determined.

Will the net effect be lower damage or higher damage than we have now? I personally think the damage will be basically the same. You lose duration from scepter, but you will crit more and thus cause more bleeds and more damage. You will also be able to apply lots of vulnerability, which will increase your allies damage. If you cause 10 stacks of vulnerability on a group of enemies and 3 warriors do a 10k hundred blades, that’s 3k damage that came out because of YOUR vulnerability.

Whether the damage will be higher or lower also depends on two things:
1) Whether the NEW Lingering Curse will increase the base durations of each condi, similar to how it works now. If this is the case then if you grab the new Lingering Curse AND have 95% condi duration, your condi output will be MASSIVE when you are using scepter. Arguably the damage would be even higher than if you had terror because ALL of your condis would have double the duration. For example, 20 second bleeds per scepter auto attack, or 27 second bleeds with Grasping Dead, etc. This could potentially apply to every condi you put out (from sigils, runes, etc), as long as you are using scepter at that moment.

2) It also depends on whether you are able to get 30% condi duration from armor to make up for the 30% condi duration lost from Spite

Final verdict:
To me it looks like condi damage should be the similar or higher for current Lingering Curse Necros. It depends on whether 30% condi duration is obtainable from armor, and whether Lingering Curse increases condi duration by a flat amount (like food – can’t go above 100% duration) or if it increases the base duration (which stacks with 100% condi duration from other sources). I wish things were a bit clarified in terms of how it will all work out but in my opinion, even though we’re Necros, not everything is grim

NeXeD.3042:

Where are you getting this condi duration in pvp may I ask?

I’m still pretty fuzzy on alot of the new changes and I’m at work so I’m basically just going off what I’ve been reading on the forums…. so I’m confused about the new condition duration…. I understand the new lingering curses. What happened to the 30 condi duration from spite? Are we getting some sort of baseline boost? And they reworked lingering curse to give us more condi duration? Or is speccing in spite going to give us 30 duration somehow?

That’s what I’ve been speculating about personally… they said that we’d be able to get the stats that we lost from our traits through our armor… so I assume there will be some way of getting 30% condi duration from armor. If so, you could choose that stat variant and grab Nightmare Runes for 45% condi duration (still good) with 65% bleed duration because of the curses minor. Or you could grab Krait runes. Net effect with Krait Runes would be 30% overall condi duration from the armor, 45% bleed duration from krait, 20% from curses minor trait. So 95% bleed duration which would reduce the need to grab Lingering Curses. I dunno, I’m just theory crafting in my mind but if that’s how it will work, then I think Terror will easily out-compete Lingering Curse… or at least I think so. If there is no stats that give 30% condi duration, then that’s a whole different story.

@methangas

Food Buffs,Runes and Sigils didnt change and was/is not part of the discussion so plz leave it out. We talk about the Trait-Changes here and nothing else. And a 1sec Dhuumfire even with no ICD is a Nerf and haveing both Terror & 100% Con Duration as GM in Curses is a big Nerf that is the point Iam makeing, if u compare that to what ALL other classes got yesterday only DD Eles can share this crap we got.

Yeah but it’s so wrong to look at just the traits and then say we got nerfed. You HAVE to look at everything that’s available to make a fair judgement. First of all, I think the current Lingering Curse is similar to Koi Cakes (40% condi duration food)…. since we’re talking about PvE, where food IS available, you’ll be able to pick up Koi Cakes and you’re basically on the same footing as you are now.
— For example… right now if you have 30 in spite, Nightmare Runes and Lingering Curse, you have 78% condi duration when with scepter skills and and 45% duration on all other condis. If you use Koi Cakes NOW… you’ll have +40% condi duration.
So: 85% to all condis and 100% on scepter condis.

What will change?
You’ll grab Koi Cakes (40%), 30% condi duration from armor ( hopefully), Nightmare runes (another 15%) which is 85% duration to all condis and 100% to bleeds from Curses minor.

So it seems like it actually might be a tiny bit lower. Poison duration from scepter will decrease by 15% and so will cripple, but Mark of Blood duration will increase, Dark Path, Tainted Shackles, sigils, etc. You’ll also have higher crit chance against people with condis which will can trigger bleeds with Curses minor. You’ll also be able to have Dhuumfire. So… the net effect is actually… either the condi output is the same, or the new output will be stronger. I actually think the condi output will be stronger after they change the traits.

In sPvP, condi Necros don’t really take Lingering Curse, so there was no loss here. Condi Necros in sPvP will actually get buffed, when compared to how they are now. They will still have Terror and Path of Corruption. Once again…. they said to focus on the functionality, NOT the numbers. So if we look at the Dhuumfire now, and compare it to the Dhuumfire we saw in the preview… it’s natural to assume a nerf… but if we use our brains, we’ll know that Dhuumfire will not look like that when they release the traits. Burning might stack, and if it does, I can almost guarantee it won’t be 1 stack of burning per life blast. If it is one stack, then it won’t last for only 1 second. Even if it’s 2 seconds that can already scale with condi duration, so you could potentially bring it up to 4 seconds per life blast. You cast 2 life blasts and the enemy will burn for 8 seconds, for example. If the duration is 3 seconds… well.. then it becomes quite strong.

@Gryph,
I think that really depends… because in WvW, if we are able to grab 30% condi duration from armor stats, + koi cakes + nightmare runes, you’ll have 85% condi duration (and 105% bleed duration) permanently… so there will be no need to grab Lingering Curse.
IF you CAN’T get 30% from armor then I can see the problem for people who currently use Lingering Curse.

Wait.. you mean to say that currently Mesmers didn’t use Deceptive Evasion? Oh god… why not?
Oh wait.. they did…
So what will change? Nothing. They’ll still go into Dueling to grab Deceptive Evasion. Same thing… except you’ll be getting a ton of buffs elsewhere.

Soul Reaping and Arcana is also considered pretty mandatory for Necros and Eles, just how Deceptive Evasion is for Mesmers.

NeXeD.3042:

Methane your wrong. Sorry. They balance the game with spvp in mind.

I didn’t mean to say that they balance the game based on WvW. I meant to say that when thinking about condi Necros, you gotta think about condi Necro as a whole… which includes WvW and PvE, where you can use food. Some people think that having to choose between Lingering Curses and Terror is a nerf, but in PvE and WvW, you can use food which negates the need to use Lingering Curses. In sPvP I don’t think many condi Necros even used Lingering Curses to begin with… so how is it a nerf when that trait wasn’t even…. used as much? You can also (potentially) get really high condi duration without the new Lingering Curses so the choice isn’t even that hard.

WvW is actually pretty balanced imo. If you take into account that everyone gets food and all the crazy stats, in a sense it’s balanced. I play WvW and there isn’t anything that I think is WILDLY OP in every regard except maybe rangers… but they’re only OP when you’re fighting them and you’re outnumbered.
Why say that condi Necro is getting a nerf when it will be stronger than it is now?

Aktium.9506:

MethaneGas.8357:

When looking at a build, you HAVE to take into account food

I’m sorry but WvW is never relevant in a discussion about class balance. Ever.

You can use food in PvE and WvW, which is 2/3 of Guild Wars 2. Of course it’s relevant AND significant.
The only place where it isn’t significant is sPvP, but even if we exclude food, you can bring your condi duration to 45%, and bleed duration to 65% (30% condi duration from armor, 15% from runes and 20% bleed duration from curses minor).
If you use something like krait runes, your bleed duration would be 30 + 45 + 20 = 95% even without taking food into account.
The only question is whether armor will make up for the % condi duration lost from Spite. It should, but we will see if it will.

They removed stat bonuses from traitlines… but if you can get % condi duration from armor… imagine getting 30% condi duration from armor, you grab +40% condi duration food, Nightmare Runes…. all of the sudden you’re at 85% condi duration and 105% bleed duration… which is basically like having Lingering Curses. This would mean you would naturally choose Terror. If you wanted you could grab Sigil of Malice too, which would bring your condi duration to 95%…. If you are in sPvP… this would go down by 40% because the lack of food.. and I think this is where the biggest choice will have to be made… but we’ll see.
This is only if your armor can give you % condi duration. I hope it does, and I think it should. If it doesn’t, it might be a different story.

If it merges into Death Magic Master, that would be fine and would be a natural choice. It would also be a good choice if it went into Grandmaster tier in Death Magic too, and Unholy Sanctuary moved down to Master or something.
If it merges into Soul Reaping… it likely won’t be as an Adept tier (although that would be awesome). If it’s Master tier, the choice between that and Spectral Attunement would be horrible imo. If spectral Attunement moved down to Adept, then that would be fine.

What would you choose as a staff Necro if you don’t go with Death and Soul Reaping though?

From my understanding, the stats which you were able to choose from traitlines will now be placed on armor… so POTENTIALLY you could have 30% condi duration from armor without even focusing on Spite Traitline.
Ever seen a 0/6/6/0/6 condi Necro with 85% condi duration AND Dhuumfire? Condi duration of a Spite Necro with burning, survival of a Death Magic Necro and Soul Reaping. Condi Necros won’t have problems….
We’ll see how it will play out with other professions’ buffs though.

Ravezaar.4951:

Food, Runes has nothing to do with trait changes so why even bring that up. Shrouded Removal is NOT a specific Condi based Necro trait is it ? so dont get that either, I said in wich Traits and How I think a Condi Necro is getting nerfed and I still stick to it.

GM trait in Curses (huge nerf mainly due to a choice)
Dhuumfire is a Nerf, do that math

When looking at a build, you HAVE to take into account food/runes/sigils. Not looking at those is looking at only a small part of a build, which is not right. Sure, without food and runes you might think that Necros will have no small condi duration and all of the sudden you’re forced to choose between Lingering Curse and Terror. When you factor in armor, runes, sigils and food… you can EASILY bring your condi duration up to 70%+ . If you can choose armor that gives you 30% condi duration (like Spite traitline does now), and you grab Nightmare Runes, and Koi Cakes, that’s 85% condi duration! Why would you be forced to choose between Lingering Curses and Terror when your condi duration is already huge?
-Shrouded Removal is a trait which you will now be able to get as a condi Necro at no cost to your staff cooldowns. Shrouded Removal will remove a condi when you enter DS, and it’s a buff to condi Necro builds which invest into Death Magic.
-Dhuumfire which they showed was a “beta version”. They said “focus on functionality” not the numbers. If we do that, then now EVERY life blast will apply burning, as opposed to just 1. This makes your burns harder to cleanse because you can keep reapplying them. Also, builds which previously were NOT able to get Dhuumfire, such as the build I listed ( 0/6/2/0/6) will now have it. You’ll keep the tankyness of Death Magic and Soul Reaping on TOP of having Dhuumfire, which is currently in the Spite Traitline which is purely offensive.
-If you’re a warhorn condi Necro with Banshee’s Wail, Shrouded Removal, Unholy Sanctuary and Spectral Attunement, you’ll be very, very hard to kill.

I know there’s some problems with the traitlines but looking at just condi Necros, you’ll be getting a buff when compared to how we are now.

I don’t understand why some think that condi Necros are getting a Nerf… compared to now, you’ll be getting a BUFF.

For example let’s consider a WvW build running 0/6/2/0/6 now. You have Terror, Spectral Attunement, Shrouded Removal, spectral cooldowns, Soul Marks and Near to Death.

With the new change you’ll have 6 in Curses. The 1st minor will give you 20% bleed duration right off the bat. Mix that in with +40% condi duration food, and you’re at 60%. Mix in Krait runes and you’re at 100%. Then you can take Path of Corruption if you want more damage, OR you can take Banshee’s Wail if you’re running warhorn and want more sustain. Then you’re left with Terror… because the Lingering Curse won’t be necessary, and I doubt Parasitic contagion will be necessary.
-You’ll also have 6 in Death, which means a free Shrouded Removal… which is honestly a really good and underrated trait. I use it now with warhorn and Near to Death and it’s amazing. Anyway, you’ll be getting Shourded Removal easily here at no cost to staff cooldowns (you have to sacrifice staff cooldowns currently to get it).
-You’ll be able to get Reaper’s Protection or Greater Marks – both awesome traits.
You also get protection when you leave Deathshroud. Lastly you’ll be able to grab Unholy Sanctuary. This trait is also underrated imo. When you’re low on health and fear that a thief might burst you, but you have full lifeforce, this trait will be a really nice life saver. The regen is a little weak if you don’t spec heal power though. I think if you stay long enough, and then leave Deathshroud (to gain protection from Grandmaster minor trait) you’ll be safe to use your heal skill and voila, you’re good to go. Also if you have Reaper’s Protection that can be another layer of protection which you did not have before.

-Then you have Soul Reaping. You’ll get your free staff cooldowns along with Soul Marks here – both really good traits which increase sustain nicely.
-You can grab Spectral Attunement for more sustain, or master of terror for damage, or vital persistence.
-Lastly you’ll have Dhuumfire or Foot in the Grave.

So what would you get that currently you won’t have?
-20% bleed duration
-Path of Corruption or Banshee’s Wail
-Protection when leaving DS
-Greater Marks or Reaper’s Prot
-Unholy Sanctuary
-Staff cooldowns
-Dhuumfire or Foot in the grave (You could still grab foot in the grave with the other build though)

If you don’t go into Death Magic, you could easily go into Spite for a whole other Necro condi build that focuses on boon removal and chills/vulnerability.
So…. where is the nerf to condi Necro again…?

The only things I’m bothered about is the 10-second DS cooldown… but I think that between Spectral Walk, Wurm, Unholy Sanctuary and Beyond the Veil, you’ll be able to live for 10 seconds inbetween the other things are some Death Magic traits because if you’re not going for minions… you can really only take Unholy Sanctuary. That’s fine, but it’s not really… diverse. Blood Magic is a little strange too, but I could see it working. Vital persistence + Unholy Martyr + Banshee’s Wail with generosity sigils or something.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

There are a number of problems with your analysis:

1. You go on a lot about conditions and vuln application, yet conditions gain no benefit from vuln, so not sure what you are even getting at here.

Bitter chill applies vulnerability when you chill someone, which means that Dark Path and Chilblains will apply vulnerability. If you take sigil of ice, that’s another source of vulnerability (as well as chill). If you take Chilling Darkness, your dagger #4 will apply chill now AND cause vulnerability. This will benefit you / your team in a few ways:
-Allies will deal more damage (and you too, if you’re carrion, which has power, which will scale from % damage increase)
-Overall condi pressure will increase because of new sources of chills and a huge source of vulnerability
-Vulnerability will now be a “cover-condi”, which means that if someone uses a skill to remove a condi, your vulnerability might be removed instead of your 10 stacks of bleeds, which also applies to your allies’ condis too. So overall damage will go up.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

2. Chill is good, but not nearly good enough to take sigil of ice.

Chill is excellent, especially against things like thieves and elementalists. It’s also an extra condi that enemies will have to cleanse, and if they don’t, their skills recharge slower and they move slower —> they’re more vulnerable. If you take Bitter Chill, sigil of ice will now suddenly apply vulnerability. So that’s 2 more condis at your disposal.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

3. Most necros don’t use soul marks because it wasn’t worth using, this may change now with the rolling of 3 into one.

Soul marks was absolutely worth it. Most people just prefer raw damage over sustain. Now all those condi Necros will probably be taking this trait, which will give them some extra sustain which they didn’t have before.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

4. Dumbfire is terrible after this change. 3s of a burn that does less damage than a bleed on a long cast skill that drains hard to acquire lifeforce. No condition spec should EVER take this new version of dumbfire, it is a HUGE decrease in damage over scepter auto.

I actually happen to like it a lot. Sometimes you’re stuck in DS as a condi Necro and you’re low on real HP and you just have nothing to do because if you leave DS, you might die so you spam your life blasts which deal no damage as a condi Necro. Now you can cast your life blasts and actually cause some real pain with the burns. As they said the numbers won’t be where they’ll be at release… so it’s too early to say, but for a grandmaster, you can bet it’s gonna be worth it. Now DS will make you dangerous as a condi Necro.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

5. Build diversity will definitely not increase. There is a clear best choice in almost every tier, everyone is just going to choose the same traits in a given tier. Condition users especially have 0 diversity because ALL of their good traits are smashed into GM curses or in the minon line…

A condi Necro will choose Curses, of course. But now you can choose between Death or Spite and Soul Reaping. Blood magic is in a weird spot… but come on. A condi Necro with Spite will be heavy with boon removal but lower sustain than a Necro with Death Magic.
Then when you mix something like warhorn vs. dagger off-hand too. If you roll dagger off-hand, you’ll have several trait choices to choose from, which will separate different builds. With warhorn it’s the same thing. Path of Corruption vs. Banshee’s Wail – both are really good traits and will change a build.

I posted in another thread but I think this post seems more suitable for feedback…

I think right now Condi Necros should actually be buffed. You actually have a lot more options. Curses will still be mandatory, but it got even better than what it was, imo.

If you go with something like Spite, Curses and Soul Reaping… you’d have really nice vulnerability application through chill (which is another condi that can cover up your damaging condis). Think about adding Ice Sigil to your weapons for chill + vulnerability on your scepter, for example…
-Then we could also grab Chill of Death, which would add even MORE chill, vulnerability and strip boons.
-Then add the Unholy Feast Grandmaster, which will cripple enemies around you when you enter DS, will remove a boon from them and will give you retal. If you’re a carrion condi Necro (which means you have a bit of power), your retal will be decent, and Chill of Death + Unholy Feast will hit nicely too.

If you go into Curses, you’d have Path of Corruption, which is even more boon removal.
-A thing I dislike a lot in Curses is the new Enfeebling Blood. I think it will be quite a bit weaker than it is now, and if we don’t apply weakness as well anymore, our sustain will go down. I think this trait should stay the same as it is now.
-If you take Chilling Darkness, you could do a blind with your dagger off-hand, which would cause vulnerability from your Spite trait as well (more condi pressure! and the blind bounces too, stacking chills and vulnerability)
-Your plague could now become deadly, if you use #2. You’d cause poison, blind, chill, vulnerability (hugeeeee stacking of vulnerability), and if you crit you can bleed. Would also be very cool if you had Krait Runes / Sigil of Torment… could do 2 stacks of torment AoE on top of the other condis… yummmm
-You could go with Banshee’s Wail instead of Path of corruption with a condi Necro now too. It would make warhorn realllllyyyy beastly for tanking… this will definitely be a hard choice.

With Soul Reaping, Soul Marks + Staff Cooldowns as a minor is simply amazing. That’s gonna be a HUGE sustain buff in my opinion, especially since many Necros don’t even use Soul Marks currently, and that trait is amazing.
-Dhuumfire on Life blast is going to be amazing….

The ONLY thing I’m personally not really happy about is that now I won’t be able to take Near to Death because that would mean giving up Soul Marks/Staff CDs… so you’ll be stuck out of Deathshroud for 10 seconds, which I think is a nerf to WvW roaming Necro sustain… Speed of Shadows seems sub-par, especially when compared to the new Soul Marks.

If you go Curses, Death and Soul Reaping I think you’d have realllllyyy nice sustain. Not as much boon rip and application of vulnerability, but you’d have Protection when leaving DS, Shrouded Removal (really good trait imo, also very good on warhorn condi Necros. Now you won’t have to sacrifice staff cooldowns to get it), Reaper’s protection or Greater Marks, and Unholy Sanctuary. Although we’ll be stuck out of DS for 10 seconds, the protection when leaving DS might make up for that. We’ll also have Unholy Sanctuary might help with that as well.

I’m not sure how I feel about Blood Magic though. I feel like that trait line needs more work. Other than that, overall I think the build diversity will definitely go up. I can’t really wrap my mind around some of the new builds that will become available, but I see at least 2-3 that I’ll want to try. HYPED!

I dunno what I think about Necro in sPvP… sometimes it feels really good and other times it feels too team dependent. I will say that if you have a good team, your effectiveness increases A LOT but if your team is kitten, you won’t have an easy time.

I agree that it sucks pretty bad that condi Necro damage has been nerfed because of Dhuumfire… then when Dhuumfire was nerfed the other nerfs were not reverted back so it seems like the net effect is “nerf”. We did get Tainted Shackles though, which we didn’t have at launch of the game so I don’t know if Necro now is actually weaker when compared to Necro at launch. Maybe with raw math it is, but as you said, theory is not everything. If you’re in a fight and you apply torment, it’s a unique condition which can cover your other condis, as well as your ally’s condis so you indirectly deal more damage or your allies deal more damage because the other condis get to tick longer. We also got Torment Sigil, which is very similar, as well as Krait Runes (6th bonus). All of those things apply the unique condition (Torment) in AoE and if you use them together you can stack 5 stacks of torment in AoE. Tainted Shackles also does immobilize which can be pretty significant in a team fight, or a fight that you +1 because it would allow your allies to deal damage when the enemy is rooted, or it can save your allies or yourself by stopping attackers. Tainted Shackles also does a bit of power damage when it ends, which itself can also cause a stack of bleed from Curses Minor trait.

Necro also does have defenses which stack with increased number of enemies. For example Spectral Wall can be a beastly tanking / defense skill because when an enemy bumps into it (whether they have stability or not) you gain 4% life force (or 4.4% with gluttony… with no internal cooldown to my knowledge. Not to mention you get 5 – 5.5% life force when you cast SWall if you use spectral attunement, which also makes it stay there for 7.5 seconds too). So 4.4% per enemy bumping into it, potentially 5.5% when you cast it. So the more enemies there are, the more life force you’re able to get (for example you can tank zergs with spectral wall). The problem comes when people are ranged and don’t bump into the wall.
-Another skill that scales defensively with the amount of enemies is Locust Swarm. The more enemies there are around you, the more lifeforce you’d get.

I dunno if how I feel about sPvP Necro cuz sometimes it feels really good and other times it feels not-so-good and requires much more brain power than some other classes.

Had a complete blast on this map as well… Necro felt perfect. It was basically like WvW but small scale – kiting and fighting as opposed to juggling balls around a point until death. Tbh I didn’t know I’d like the new mode THIS much and I wish I recorded!!!

I’ve seen a loooottttt of power Necros around… surprisingly not that many turret engis, lots of zerker GS/hammer warriors, some caltrop condi thieves, and a lot of other pretty wacky stuff (duo D/F elementalists). I played a condi Necro and it felt beastly (Plague on top of enemy Liches and Rampage warriors). I played defense (killing their minions and accompanying players) as well as collecting supply when I had the chance. It worked in offense as well, and Wurm + Spectral Walk brought tears to my eyes. I dunno, I think they hit the spot with this map… so far. With the ability to kite and fight, I think Necro suddenly becomes really strong (condi Necro), similar to WvW.

Roe.3679:

MethaneGas.8357:

Personally, I (and many others I know) find the map very enjoyable.

Same! It’s a lot of fun, you just can’t go in with a build that is courtyard centric. I hope stronghold is the same way.

As far as it favoring range – that’s just not true. I had a team that didn’t work well together and we were absolutely thrashed by a full melee group. Because they focused targets, they rezzed their downed, they worked as a group. It almost always works the same way, the map rewards the better team.

I agree. I hope courtyard brings a lot more different builds to the field. People would have to swap between builds, but if Anet makes a similar system to gw1, where you could swap between builds quickly, it would be a non-issue.

I agree. I had many teams that just stood back and tried to range and we just lost. It’s basically the same as a 5v5 GvG, except it’s people you may not know. There’s certain team compositions / builds that work really well in there.
Bunker guard ftw <3

The way it works is this:
You pick a map.. other people pick a map. The semi-circle gets larger the more people pick a map. The arrow spins around randomly and lands randomly somewhere… if most people pick a map, their semi-circle will be largest and the chance to play the map will be the highest. 8 people pick a map? 80% to play that map.
There is, however, that 20% that a different map will be picked…
It’s as simple as that.

Personally, I (and many others I know) find the map very enjoyable.

Nightmare Runes would give you, in total 55% condi duration (on top of Koi Cakes). With 30 in spite and Koi cakes, you had 70% condi duration so you only lost 15% condi duration, which in my opinion isn’t a big deal. You WOULD lose confusion (maybe not that much since Perplexity and Fear are kinda bugged at the moment) and burning. Dhuumfire is really good for burst but it’s a little clunky, and if you’re getting focus fire it can be a bit hard to aim it because you have to face your target.

Another alternative can be something like Krait Runes because those bring up your bleed duration by 45% and they’re cheap, but it’s up to you.

As for damage, your damage should be fine with 0/6/2/0/6. Of course, you won’t have the burst you’d have if you added burning on top of that, but you should stick pack a huge punch. You have corrupt boon and signet of spite… those two on a single target are crazy damage.

What weapon do you use offhand? Dagger or warhorn?
If you use dagger, then shrouded removal may not be the best, although the trait is pretty good.

If you feel like CC and being locked down is an issue, then you can easily try out 0/6/2/0/6. I don’t think it will cost you much, and having another stun break and a bit of stability can be worth it, especially since you only have one stun break with your utilities.

Sorry if the answer isn’t too elaborate but… it’s best if you test both builds, because they both work. 6/6/0/0/2 is squishy but high damage. 6/4/0/0/4 could work as well. 0/6/4/0/4, 4/6/0/0/4… Personally, I use 0/6/2/0/6 at the moment, since they nerfed DS cooldown and I grab Near to death (it rocks) to make up for the nerf. I haven’t tried the new Foot in the grave yet in WvW, but it rocks in sPvP.

Lich, say hello to Plague <3

Mister TaCo.8135:

That was a gg, to bad our necro decided to troll and harass us.

*I was the downed thief in OP’s SS.

Seems like a child to me… shoulda given him a pacifier :P
On a brighter note, I’m pretty sure we on this game.

Oh dear… Soul Reaping is becoming one of my favorite traitlines now >__>
So much good stuff to choose from!
This trait will make fighting other Necros a lot easier now… it breaks fears too

Earthshaker to the face? Not anymore.
Basilisk Venomed or Sleigh of Hand-dazed? Nuh huh.
Guardian hammer ring? No more.

This will definitely open up a lot more variety,
Ty Anet <3

Edit: Also when rangers push you back wish longbow… now you can just enter DS and dodge the burst :O
Also can avoid Slick Shoes from engis too when they surround you :o

Dawdler.8521:

If you end up in a 1v3 situation, you’re not a bunker and not on point, you’re in the wrong place no matter your class. Which is why escaping is futile.

That’s true to an extent, but really… if 4 of your team mates are messing around with 1 enemy at home point… of course you are gonna run into 1v3s and what not. You’re expecting them to kill the guy and come to mid (for example) within… 10 seconds or less, or that one of them, two of them, or even 3 of your allies will leave home and naturally come mid or whatever… but they don’t, and you get into bad situations because you assume to be in a competent team. It’s as simple as that… which is why I suggested to glue yourself to allies in a team like that because otherwise it’s impossiborru.

Also, Dawdler, I’m sorry, but no.

Yes Roe… it happens to me too (more than once) and the worst part is when you KNOW you’ve done all you can – even nearly won 1v2 or lower someone’s health nicely in a 1v3, kiting really well and still the team does nothing. I already know you kick kitten wih Necro, and sometimes it just comes to a kittenty team. Might be best to play super defensive in those kinds of team cuz they don’t know their stuff and won’t help you unless you glue yourself in their field of vision.

Shouldn’t be a problem.

Great that you’re so negative.
I had a complete blast. Revenant was amazing as kitten. So far I’m blown away, and that was just in PvE alone.

The traits and legendary skills, and weapon skills are just amazing xD

Oh and the storyline was cool and drew me in. I like that our character actually talks too.

Just fought a team of 5 turret engis and we won.
/shrug

spoj.9672:

How about make near to death give a blast on DS entry in addition to lower DS cooldown. :P

Err me gerd…..yes plz. I use that trait. And its Master too… it might create too much synergy within a single trait though. Lower CD AND blast are two separately good things, and benefit from each other. Nevertheless… I’m not opposed to the idea.

I dunno, Necro feels really good to me in sPvP. It’s a very different thing than in WvW (for me at least) but once you figure it out, and once you get used to the general builds people use, it becomes a lot better. When I first started playing sPvP with Necro it felt underwhelming and squishy. In WvW you could tank a zerg and in sPvP you melt away but after a while when you figure out the name of the game, it should be a lot more powerful. Granted, it does feel like you need to use more brainpower to play Necro than some other classes (casting skills backwards with camera flip, good keybinds to do that too, and always thinking ahead – SWalk and Wurm need planning), and it’s definitely more hectic profession to play because you are actually taking hits and soaking up damage. I don’t play the hardcore “premade vs. premade” yet, mostly just random ques as solo or a friend or two. Just 10 mins ago I’ve finished playing some soloQ with condi Necro and actually had a good team, and good opponents and it felt amazing. I dunno, I see both sides of the argument but I really can’t say “Necro sucks” when I actually feel like it rocks. You just need a decent team.

I think a lot of people don’t play the profession because it requires you to not get kittened off easily and be able to take defeat and learn. I know a lot of people who wanted to play Necro to try it out, and not one of em stuck to it. As soon as they die several times they give up. And the problem is that I think Necro becomes rewarding only later on, and a lot of people don’t reach that point. I think it’s a hard profession.
Just my opinion.

Now… for that Weakening Shroud blast

Ok so if weakness stacking wouldn’t be an issue, and dark field blasting also wouldn’t be an issue (those fields are super rare), is there any other fields that could be an issue?

I’m trying to think of this how Anet would think of it. If we consider the most OP scenarios with Weakening Shroud and Enfeebling Blood being blasts…
Imagine you’re on an ally’s fire field (a bow warrior). You drop putrid mark, 3 stacks of might. You swap weapons and use Enfeebling Blood, 3 more stacks. You use Blood is power, 10 stacks. You enter DS, 3 more stacks. Now we’re at 19 stacks of might.
If we add might duration runes to the mix (Hoelbrak, Strength, Aristocracy)… Now pop a Lich

I guess 2x exploding minions could be mixed in there as well for another 6 stacks, bringing us to 25 stacks, and nearby allies to 15 stacks. Minions wouldn’t be viable for might stacking outside PvE though. In sPvP or WvW it would be really rough to use them for the sole purpose as blasts imo. If we compare to other classes and consider the might given to allies, Guardians can do 12 might stacks with staff #4, Empower, but with using only one skill. Warriors can give quite a bit of might as well with bow (3 stacks), warhorn (3 stacks), For Great Justice (3 stacks + Fury), and possibly more with Phalanx Strength (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phalanx_Strength).
Engineers can blast quite a bit as well, in extreme scenarios, as well as Eles. I think theoretical OP combos can be made about any class tbh, and a lot of em already exist in the game.

/ponder

flow.6043:

MethaneGas.8357:

flow.6043:

Blast a water field = BAM nothing happens.

Ah! I knew I was missing one blast finisher! It could create nice synergy with the team if you had an engi with water turret or staff ele or ranger or possibly thief (ranger stolen skill). Necro being able to blast a water finisher for an ally?! Oh my.

How about Master Minor then? It could just switch places with Furious Demise.
Almost every build has Weakening Shroud already. If it was updated with a blast finisher you could make it less accessible by increasing the point requirement, and in turn reserve the extra fury as an adept option for builds that really need it.

That would be an interesting idea. I wouldn’t mind that change at all, although that would open up interesting things for the other Adept traits for condi Necros. Chilling Darkness would become a viable option. Hemophilia would also be a very nice pick. I don’t know how strong that would make a Necro though. With an additional blast and chills on blind or 20% bleed duration. Although I guess you’d potentially drop Furious Demise, which would make up for it. Chilling Darkness would make Plague very nice too, and power Necros could invest less in Curses to get the Fury.

Rising Dusk.2408:

even then solo we don’t have the fields to maintain uptime of anything, nor do we have the blast finishers elsewhere to stack anything, nor do we even have Death Shroud built in the beginning of a PvP match. Compare that to a MediHammer Guard who has a blast finisher on a 5 second cooldown with access to it all the time without any traits.

That’s true. And if it did become a thing, there’s plenty of counterplay. If a Necro drops Chilblains, you can expect a blast and can easily dodge to negate the whole thing. Also as spoj mentioned, the weakness from a blast is only 3 seconds (I thought it was 5 too) which makes weakness stacking even less of an issue.

I dunno how I feel about healing in DS so I’ll refrain.