Guild Wars 2

Maugetarr.6823:

At least we don’t have the variety of conditions that the others do. If we could burst conditions like necros or engis the outcry would be horrendous.

This is the reason I don’t think it will receive any nerfs. Most of the condi thieves I’ve encountered don’t run perplexity so they really dont have much other than the bleeds themselves and some mild torment stacks. There isn’t much to buffer the bleeds. I also wouldn’t want any other conditions. I’ve been running P/D prior to the buff to shadow strike and even then it was a good set.

Plus, if they did nerf it you would have nothing left but burst builds.

I run full dire armor, 1 dire/1givers weapon, with dire+rabid trinkets and backpiece. 3k armor 21000 hp with guard stacks/bloodlust. 2k condi damage (with BL. 1900 without) and 76% duration.

I will never run anything else on p/d.

EDIT: missing 1 of my dire/rabid trinkets in the screenshot. 3k armor with p/d out and 3100 with SB. HP was 20,800.

What kind of thief build are you running? I don’t really lose to engineers on my P/D spec or D/P spec, but D/D is where I feel challenged.

Tarkus.4109:

Mordecai.6318:

[RET]’s force during our guild prime time two nights ago. This is what it looks like every night. Goo bai.

Just 10v10 in OS and get it over and done with

It’s hard to ignore how dense some people are.

[RET]’s force during our guild prime time two nights ago. This is what it looks like every night. Goo bai.

xmtrcv.5236:

Rarnark.5623:

I’m still not 100% sure what you’re trying to argue. Warrior healing signet is a completely irrelevant topic when discussing the state of the D/P trickery build for thief, so is the class I main. If you want to be taken seriously I recommend you form an opinion and support it with evidence.

The competitive tpvp community is severely under represented on the forums and this is part of the reason why. Please bring some intelligent discussion and they may return. I would love to hear their opinions.

Your form of intelligent discussion was to offer your opinion with no supporting evidence.

D/P thiefs are pretty overpowered now when played correctly.

to which I commented on the irony of that statement from a Warrior main commenting on a profession that you don’t main. (Read: my opinion) There was no argument to be had, since they are just opinions.

Your intelligent retort was:

If you’re getting melted by warriors as a thief you’re getting outplayed.

to which I replied “I’m not and I don’t.” with the follow up that I don’t win all fights against all Warriors, because that’s just how things go. I’m a realist and all builds have their limitations against other builds.

However, I believe some limitations (and not isolated to the Thief profession here) are indirectly amplified by an overpowered (passive) healing ability available to Warriors. (Read: my opinion.)

The observation that I cannot swing a cat around in s/tPvP without hitting a Warrior running Healing Signet speaks to its popularity of healing ability choice due to the passive benefits. (Read: my opinion.)

Countless self-spectates of Warriors in sPVP (have to understand your enemy, you know?) and multiple videos of Warriors (by Warriors) moseying into blobs, while bumping “Hammer Time” as the soundtrack, then meandering out with nary a scratch, speaks to that as well. (Read: my opinion)

The risk vs. reward ratio for Warriors is significantly lower than it is for Thieves. (Read: my opinion.)

You see, I can state my opinion (implied or explicit) all I want, because a view or judgment formed about something does not necessarily need to be based on fact or knowledge. I respected that in your statement and replied with one of equal value.

However, I have clarified them in detail (for your reduced comprehension) with examples of knowledge gained (personal and observed).

That being said:

• the class you main (Warrior, in case you forgot)
  and
• your profession’s preferred choice of healing ability (Healing Signet, to recap)

are absolute relevant (and especially humorous) in a topic discussing D/P thief, when you:

1. are a Warrior
2. call them overpowered (if played “correctly”)
3. says it’s a lrn2play issue if a Thief loses to a Warrior (not played “correctly”)

Don’t complain because you inserted yourself into a conversation where your opinions are met with sarcastic observations of irony (yes, totally based on my opinion).

edit: I accidentally a opinion. xD

This.

/15char

ReverendChan.8467:

Tyaen.5148:

SgtJanitor.3164:

I don’t get it. RET is a GvG guild but every time we go to engage with equal numbers, FEAR comes rolling in with 30… Why?

Lol

Are you trolling? You’re trolling, I can tell.

To be fair while it may be a slight troll/call out this was kind of what was happening last night. A lot of yumy is associated with APeX on fwendly terms because they are nice individuals and good at what they do. They haz people from the sPvP community we’ve known for a long time so that helps too.

That being the case me and two other guildies ran with APeX last night on TS and this was one of the typical scenarios we encountered (probably the only time I was with them that we actually wiped as most of the night played out very well in our favor). There was a specific fight on Southwest camp in JQBL where FEAR stacked up waiting for us (the numbers were about even FEAR maybe had a few more) where we ran in and pretty much demolished them and pushed the remainder into the camp NPCs. Right as I’m by the commander stacking for an empower so we can finish the job a massive zerg train out of spawn runs us over and it was well over 30 people while not all of them were RET there were a lot of RET tags mixed in (more than the others).

From that point on most of the night where we ran into FEAR or RET hybrid zerg the other group was right along with it (generally arriving just in the nick of time to save the other group ironically). That was the only time I was with them where we wiped though and the majority of fights were fun even where we were farming JQ out of their towers further North.

I think he is just making the statement of APeX ran about 15 or less last night with 3 extras from our guild and that number never went over 20. Both of your groups were 20+ for the most part (20 was what you had at the very least per group) so 1v1 it was good till the numbers swung widely into your favor when the 2nd group showed up. That kind of a disparity can be frustrating to fight through, but composure was kept and for the most part I enjoyed the fights.

Just my take. I normally don’t zerg or run with a group I just roam, but did appreciate APeX letting us tag along. Wuz funz and lots o’ bagz to be haz’d! <3

Most Adorable Necro NA,
Schnigle <3

What the hell is a hyrbid zerg? [RET] was running 8-10 last night, and only for a brief period near spawn and some other random skirmishes with APEX.

Counting, try it again.

Nevermind, the vision crystal popped up at 496 for me.

It may still be too early to tell, but I bought the recipes to make my set. I noticed some pieces require Vision Crystals. To my knowledge it takes a weaponcraft to be level 500 in order to make the Vision Crystals.

So my question is (without being 500 in armorcrafting yet): Do I have to level one of my weaponcrafts to 500 in order to finish my armor? I know it sounds backwards, but I’m trying to decide on what to do next while not knowing.

Raven.9603:

lets keep track.

• 1st fight is you against a guardian that didnt fight back.
• 2nd fight is you, a sentry, and your thieves guild against a warrior that continued to only fight the sentry until it dies, and he engages you at 20% health.
• 3rd fight is you against the 1st guardian again, who again runs away and doesnt fight back after the warrior drops.
• 4th fight is you, multiple guards and yaks against a thief and guardian who are both at half health from fighting said guards.
• 5th fight is you killing an uplevel who basically died to guards anyway. His guardian friend was at half health (from guards) by the time you swap to him, and he tries to fight you inside the camp with said guards.
• 6th fight is you killing an ele, who is already at 40% health from fighting guards…
• 7th fight is better. You stomp a commander i can only assume someone else already downed, evade attacks while pressuring an uplevel ranger, rez a guy and pick off a mesmer that for some reason had 10% health. Then down but fail to kill a longbow/bear ranger who didnt fight back.
  It was better because you did this while living through an outnumbered situation.
• 8th fight is even better, you win against a guy with full health. But: its a ranger with a longbow and a bear. Maybe next time?
• 9th fight is against a full health engineer. Engineer almost drops you, you shadow refuge and full reset. Reopen with thieves guild, both of you go down at the same time roughly.
• 10th fight, an actual win against a full health non-bowbear. Well, we’re 1-9. Might make the playoffs with a wildcard right?

The good news is, did not see you try to exploit any permastealth. The bad news is, not really any good fights in this video.

10/10 lol

+1 It gets me killed a lot. I wish there was some sort of visual timer so I knew when it was off CD, that way I at least know its coming.

Travlane.5948:

messiah.1908:

Mordecai.6318:

You are clueless.

lets keep it clean

he is not clueless as he has the right for his own opinions

i do disagree as my sneak attack with full dire does 1500 dmg and not 400 as i got 2900 attack

i also used to run carrion but in wvw when you can be burst suddenly by 3 warrior and die instantly i prefer to go dire as now i can soak most of their dmg and run more easily (not if i perma stun). and also i run with group raids mostly where toughness is more needed

bs thieves do 5-7k dmg while in carrion its more like 10-12k
HS thieves do like 0.5-2k dmg while in carrion its more like 2-6k

its not that big of a gap in defense. its like 4500 on HS in dire to 6k on HS in carrion

i drop d/p thieves with my build before they enter stealth for the first time . . half that is bc of build half is bc of carrion giving me more direct dmg. it takes about 5-6 seconds to drop any d/p player. blinding powder is usually the only way they get out. in those 5-6 seconds i get an extra 2500 damage. it really adds up.

I run dire and kill thieves equally as fast. All while not getting backstabbed into narnia.

messiah.1908:

Mordecai.6318:

You are clueless.

lets keep it clean

he is not clueless as he has the right for his own opinions

i do disagree as my sneak attack with full dire does 1500 dmg and not 400 as i got 2900 attack

i also used to run carrion but in wvw when you can be burst suddenly by 3 warrior and die instantly i prefer to go dire as now i can soak most of their dmg and run more easily (not if i perma stun). and also i run with group raids mostly where toughness is more needed

bs thieves do 5-7k dmg while in carrion its more like 10-12k
HS thieves do like 0.5-2k dmg while in carrion its more like 2-6k

Having the right to an opinion doesn’t mean he isn’t clueless. While I’ll agree he has the right to his own opinion, I don’t really feel anyone has the right to misinterpret facts, which he does quite frequently. Not to mention his post “structure” that barely seems to resemble anything coherent.

i mean if ur a REALLY bad player or REALLY new yes do take dire.

Then I read something like this which leads to my initial statement. Clueless.

Travlane.5948:

dire gear is so defensive. the BUILD is overly defensive. why add more defense to a defensive build. you need more dmg. go carrion. period. some players like to go -%condi time. it hurts …with dire you have lik 400-475 ish sneak attack direc dmg…with carrion its 850-1150. and the normal AA is also over 100% more dmg. is it worth trading for the toughness that you already have a lot of form 300 in SA? def not…. AOE blinds….invis…healing while invis…..remove conditions while invis…. Hide in shadows is like 8500 heal. shadow refuge is a FULL heal everytime. but lets take more toughness just incase? i mean if ur a REALLY bad player or REALLY new yes do take dire. but when its time to get exotic and ascended/legendaries go for carrion or u will end up wasting your money.

You are clueless.

Seigfried.5938:

Mordecai.6318:

Renny.6571:

We’re pretty good at buying guilds.

Unfortunately not as good as us.

Fixed

I actually find it very fortunate that my server isnt fully of timmy tryhards.

Renny.6571:

We’re pretty good at buying guilds.

Fixed it for you.

lol @ the BG zerg camping the JP. Congrats on losing every Xv1 and 1v1 against me today. Is there anything BG is actually good at? It certainly isn’t combat.

Hey!

First off, I only included my name in the title just because these are what I personally use and not because they are some purely innovative new meta.

Anyways, as the title mentions I have two variants of what I run in WvW. The first one I made a guide for that has other rune/sigil options that I’ve tried and a few rotations for those who have never tried or cared.

The first build is the build I use primarily. I consider this to be a more aggressive setup.
http://intothemists.com/guides/guide.php?id=1875

-PROS
-Lowest Steal Recast
-Confusion via Perplexity
-High Survivability via high HP Pool and Armor
-Quick Condition Re-application
-High Condi Damage (especially with guard stacks, might, etc.)

-CONS
Mobility – This build is slower than the other variant because I’m lacking travelers runes.
Chasing/Gap Closing – This can be a bit of a problem as I have to swap the run signet for Shadowstep which still leaves me to be slower than most of what I might have to chase.

The second and more defensive build can be found here:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY6YlUmiP3eS6E/5EB3Dna0m6p4rjtTBXlPA-j0CBohBCXM0UAhmWAg6AKTqIaslhFRjVJjIqWdDzYeIaG0pWIgFrBA-w

-PROS
-Higher Survivability via Pain Response and higher HP Pool.
-Mobilty via Travelers Runes
-Quick Condition Re-application

-CONS
-No Steal Interrupt
-Much Lower Condition Damage
-Limited conditions without Confuse
-No poison via Steal (Added Doom Sigil to weapon swap to balance that.)

*NOTES:
I mention it in the guide, but I do swap traits depending on what I am fighting. Just because its listed doesn’t mean it’s set in stone.

I also swap off my stacking weapons after the +25 to Geomancy Sigils.

I’ve been recording both solo/small man fights with each of the setups above. Sooner than later I’ll have some gameplay.

One last thing, I am open to critique. I also apologize if anyone has posted either of these two builds before. I don’t recall seeing any as I frequent these forums, but who knows.

Thanks!

wut?

/15char

Mine is working now as well.

Good to know I am not the only one at least.

I would imagine theres been a billion threads about this at this point, but I’m on a time constraint so I’m making a post to check back on later.

After the patch my antivirus (Comodo) tried to isolate the awesomium_process.exe I told it to ignore/not isolate it again. Since then the gem store will not work. I havent fond it listed anywhere in the antivirus as isolated and I also see it running as an active process when I CNTRL/ALT/DELETE.

Any advice?

Thank you.

Interceptor.2653:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Not much, considering I was able to hit high stacks frequently without even equipping weapons…

OK. I’ll just respond to the people who understand what Perplexity runes actually do in real-world situations, then.

perfect. thank you.

Effective Power 1666.68
Damage Reduction 7.27%

Like I said, laughable. Thank you for posting this.

Using the exact setup in the build I posted on the first page of the thread I ended up with this:

Effective Power 1082.04
Effective Health (EHP) 27070
Damage Reduction 37.7%
Reference Armor 1836

With 8 stacks of might: 1443 power
With 2 stacks of might: 1233 power

The above were listed without the extra 100 power I was just receiving from bloodlust.
Being in T1 I almost always have at least 50 extra power from bloodlust. I also always have a minimum of 2 stacks of might because of the constant stealthing from Cloak and Dagger.

The point is I can still reach a decent power level while having like 5x the damage reduction when fighting outnumbered.

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

irishking.8956:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

i also don’t kno the exact numbers right now but it helps with the food! also dire gives u health and toughness with condi dmg so ur just giving ur self more time in a fight to let the condi’s do there job against tanky high health classes

people that drop condis fast or have -% can be tough or a draw for dire. You do 100% more dmg at least….using carrion over dire. it really adds up. and extra 500-600 dmg per unload is much better than extra toughness which drops about 30 hp per hit incoming :P

There isnt a single build type out there that I struggle with while using dire. I’m sorry, but your direct damage is lackluster with carrion. Period. 30hp per hit? Quit using made up numbers as a source of validity.

point taken. so why use dire then ? lol if you dont struggle…why so much defense? you have so much defense you need to drop dmg for more? eh ?

you cannot possibly be serious…..

quite. why lose the offensive dmg on up to 6 people when you are only saving minute amounts of dmg? seriously. answer that. its ok if u prefer the minute amount of dmg saving vs dealing ALOT more outgoing…. i prefer doign more dmg bc im content with the amount of toughness i already ahve for that build.

Except carrion doesnt provide much of any damage. Its laughable.

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

irishking.8956:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

i also don’t kno the exact numbers right now but it helps with the food! also dire gives u health and toughness with condi dmg so ur just giving ur self more time in a fight to let the condi’s do there job against tanky high health classes

people that drop condis fast or have -% can be tough or a draw for dire. You do 100% more dmg at least….using carrion over dire. it really adds up. and extra 500-600 dmg per unload is much better than extra toughness which drops about 30 hp per hit incoming :P

There isnt a single build type out there that I struggle with while using dire. I’m sorry, but your direct damage is lackluster with carrion. Period. 30hp per hit? Quit using made up numbers as a source of validity.

point taken. so why use dire then ? lol if you dont struggle…why so much defense? you have so much defense you need to drop dmg for more? eh ?

you cannot possibly be serious…..

Travlane.5948:

irishking.8956:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

i also don’t kno the exact numbers right now but it helps with the food! also dire gives u health and toughness with condi dmg so ur just giving ur self more time in a fight to let the condi’s do there job against tanky high health classes

people that drop condis fast or have -% can be tough or a draw for dire. You do 100% more dmg at least….using carrion over dire. it really adds up. and extra 500-600 dmg per unload is much better than extra toughness which drops about 30 hp per hit incoming :P

There isnt a single build type out there that I struggle with while using dire. I’m sorry, but your direct damage is lackluster with carrion. Period. 30hp per hit? Quit using made up numbers as a source of validity.

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

The last thing I’m worried about in an attrition based character is how much direct damage I’m doing. My entire goal is to outlive the opponent. Having the 3k armor allows me to survive virtually everything. I don’t care how long a fight takes.

You claim that having the extra power saves 3-4% of my HP a fight as if thats significant. 3-4% of the 21,800 (buffed) HP I have is 654. Which is right around the low number you’re complaining about. Any character that utilizes power as a stat ALWAYS shoots for somewhere around 2000 power and you won’t be anywhere near that even adding in the extra 230ish from carrion.

Anybody who has a problem killing a thief 1 year after release in a 10 button game has an infinite amount of things to improve upon.

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

hooma.9642:

after i saw today a thief trolling a group and killing some of the ppl with just cloak and dagger and 3-4k dmg per attack i think that cheese need to removed from game.

so as suggestion remove dmg-coefficient and lower initcost, then its just a utility or make revealed every time u come out of stealth even without attack. so its not possible to chain attacks that stealth u.

discuss.

Everything is cheese if you get beat by it right? Get over yourself.

Hexin.5603:

Mordecai.6318:

FrownyClown.8402:

Mordecai.6318:

FrownyClown.8402:

LetoII.3782:

FrownyClown.8402:

Nice fights with CaB today from RaGe. Hopefully we can catch you guys with even numbers.

Just 4 of us :/
whatchoo mean?

3v4 isnt that big of a deal I know. I was immobilize stacked for days at one point lol. It was hard to counter perplexity and full zerker d/d thief.

You had 3 for one of the six engagements we had with you. The rest you had 4-5. You won 2 of them and lost 4. Reality, live in it please. Regardless, good fights.

3 of the engagements we had 3 rage. 2 of them was 4 and i think 2 more was 5. It was 5v5 you guys won. gg. then it was 4v5 in your f avor. then it was 3v3 and we won the one time it was. then it was 4v3 the rest of the time. I was trying to be civil about it, but obviously we both need to live in reality.

So your guild tag is RAGE and you guys had superior numbers then had half of them RAGE and still managed to have close to even numbered fights despite the RAGE then came to the forums saying you had less? I get it.

This convo …

Considering this matchup was over before it started I’d say that the convo is equally as interesting as the rest of the banter.

FrownyClown.8402:

Mordecai.6318:

FrownyClown.8402:

LetoII.3782:

FrownyClown.8402:

Nice fights with CaB today from RaGe. Hopefully we can catch you guys with even numbers.

Just 4 of us :/
whatchoo mean?

3v4 isnt that big of a deal I know. I was immobilize stacked for days at one point lol. It was hard to counter perplexity and full zerker d/d thief.

You had 3 for one of the six engagements we had with you. The rest you had 4-5. You won 2 of them and lost 4. Reality, live in it please. Regardless, good fights.

3 of the engagements we had 3 rage. 2 of them was 4 and i think 2 more was 5. It was 5v5 you guys won. gg. then it was 4v5 in your f avor. then it was 3v3 and we won the one time it was. then it was 4v3 the rest of the time. I was trying to be civil about it, but obviously we both need to live in reality.

So your guild tag is RAGE and you guys had superior numbers then had half of them RAGE and still managed to have close to even numbered fights despite the RAGE then came to the forums saying you had less? I get it.

FrownyClown.8402:

LetoII.3782:

FrownyClown.8402:

Nice fights with CaB today from RaGe. Hopefully we can catch you guys with even numbers.

Just 4 of us :/
whatchoo mean?

3v4 isnt that big of a deal I know. I was immobilize stacked for days at one point lol. It was hard to counter perplexity and full zerker d/d thief.

You had 3 for one of the six engagements we had with you. The rest you had 4-5. You won 2 of them and lost 4. Reality, live in it please. Regardless, good fights.

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

http://intothemists.com/guides/1875-mordecais_pd_wvw_roamer

This is what I’ve been running for the past 3-4 months. By no means is it some groundbreaking build and maybe could be improved somewhere, but it works really well for me. Just know that not everything you see listed as far as traits, utilities, etc. is static. I make brief explanations on the build for those who are unfamiliar with the set, but you will more than likely need to swap skills/traits depending on the situation.

Dagraan.2854:

ryan.6217:

Dagraan.2854:

Feel free to get back to me in any way you know how.

you know iv’e never seen a video of a naked ele, or engie, or warrior killing people with ease. the naked videos isn’t just hey look at me i’m so pro i can beat baddies, its hey look at me i can abuse a cheap class against baddies.
with a thief its no risk since he can just perma stealth away if he’s fighting a decent player.

people can make those videos of 5v1 because they have no risk at all, if those 5 people are of equal skill the thief can just shadow step away stealth, and if he has a shortbow move 1800+ range in 2 seconds something that no other class can do.

if a warrior tries that and theres 5 equal skilled players then he’s either gonna have to run the speed build which is useless in wvw or be SoL.

and i have the audacity to say a theif standing in his pistol 5 and insta winning against warriors? oh what you don’t know how to use the pistol 5 for something other than perma stealth?

a warriors attacks aren’t long enough range to hit some thief standing in the middle of a blind field, unless he has a longbow and even then the thief can just go hide till his health comes back or just shadow shot to the warrior, not even mentioning the steal skill.
and most hammer warriors aren’t gonna carry some ranged weapon so their either gonna be all melee for best effectiveness in zergs or some random roaming build with a ranged weapon.
and the thief perma stealthing a mesmer in a keep was about the perma stealth with the pistol 5 and shortbow, without using even 1 utility. which is not a class mechanic.
not to mention your elite skill which is honestly one of the only elite skills that can be classified as “elite” gives stability, and hits everything spamming cripples, bleeds, and reflects.
you ever wonder why an ele can’t just warp in the middle of a zerg and tornado to get away or do mass amounts of aoe?

the thief killing everything in spawn is a glitch, but how is bugging out and disabling that teams merchant for that map not OP?
and no its not about a thief picking off stragglers that are falling off of a zerg its about a thief running into the middle of a zerg and killing people and getting away its not the ability to do a lot of damage its their ability to get away without a scratch because stealth has no real counters.

a warrior maybe be anets golden child, but hes not god in wvw if he wants to do CC and lots of damage he has to give up mobility, if he wants to run as fast as thieves he has to give up damage.

does a thief have to do that? no the thief can have both and always and easily maintain ultimate control.
the thief class is equally as golden as warriors.

you clearly haven’t played a thief.

Einlanzer.1627:

Thing I’ve ever seen in a game. It’s actually making me physically ill trying to play it on my pathetically weak Thief. I think I’m about ready to move on.

I got 6/10 achievements on my thief in an hour. It’s not hard.

Rezzet.3614:

TsukiNoEi.4570:

in zerg wars, we have lowest armor with low regen (and only regen in stealth)
in 1v1, we can only stealth and run away, none with regen can be kill by a thief

so, what the **** can we do in WVW?

this shows 90% thief players play the class for its broken mechanics rather than relying on skill try using your shortbow for once in wvw

as for the regen comment your joking right ? thief is pretty much the only class landing up to 7-10k hits without might on players with 3k armor .

what to do in wvw hmm

Scouting,Assasinating ,support,build stuff,fix stuff ,whatever you feel like doing

That “broken” mechanic is the only way to make sense in WvW and not get overwhelmed by conditions and guard/warrior damage. Scouting and Assassinating dont happen near as much without that build. PvP is the reason people play WvW so using repairs, building siege that you cant even stand in place to use is pretty much the lamest defense I’ve ever heard to why those nerfs make sense.

You don’t play thief and if you do, you certainly dont play it well. Spamming shortbow 4 and 2 in a zerg the epitome of effortless. I could do that successfully with 1 hand and my eye’s closed.

The WvW aspect of the game is arguably geared towards finding a main and progressing that 1 toon through the various ways offered. Thief was my first toon, but not my main for the longest time until I finally found a playstyle with it that worked for me. I reluctantly made it my “main” mostly because of how its uses the greater good of WvW are very limited. Its basically used for scouting and ganking a standout target. I mean, its uses in sPvP are pretty much limited to ganking a priority target and thats it.

-Thieves have zero condi removal unless they’re traited for Shadow Arts IV (That was recently nerfed out of nowhere) or the precision sigil which is more or less a waste of a utility slot for most builds.

-Thieves have the worst access to stability. Basilisk Venom is easily the best elite skill for a thief as it allows a brief “lockdown” of a target. I find myself dodging out of my elite ability just to gain the stability because nothing screams “KILL ME” like a thief doing mach 10 ballet pirouettes.

-Thieves will have zero time to set up a backstab (which is the ONLY damage source) because of how many heartseekers it takes to set one up. I NEVER attempt a backstab without trying to land at least 3 heartseekers as 2 has me out of stealth before I can even think of what to do. I mean, those first 3 or 4 you use, might not even be enough for a skilled player.

-Thieves cannot take a hit in anyway, shape, or form. It will now be even worse. Seriously think about it. Fights will go like this:

D/P Thief stealths for a backstab and in the process gets a plethora of conditions from “X” class. Well thief can’t cleanse these conditions very often in stealth anymore as of last patch and will take consistent damage. Thief tries to set up another backstab. BOOM, out of initiative and force to blow something like Blinding Powder or Refuge. Utilities that were used for defense are now used for offense. The backstab is blocked evaded, etc. Thief has no initiative, no condi clears, no ulitities/stealth and is insta-gibbed from remaining damage because hes a sitting duck. Oh, and we cant dodge because our vigor is gone. I didn’t even mention if we used headshot or our #3 gap closer which every D/P will most certainly use. This doesn’t just nerf “perma-stealth”, this nerfs the most synergerized weapon set available.

I have never once heard a complaint about a thief in the way 90% of the population plays WvW. Every single complaint is about their abilities in a 1v1 or a small 1vX. Nerfing the “rogue” class because of their abilities in small scale is absolutely foolish IMO. The ENTIRE point of a rogue class is to eliminate a SINGLE target.

I crafted two legendaries, Quip and Incinerator, and pursued the class that fit my playstyle and had similarities to other “rogue” type classes in different MMO’s. Honestly, it feels like a complete waste now and if that patch is as damaging as many foresee it to be, then you’ve regrettably lost a customer.

lol @ TSF from TC in the obsidian sanctum. just…lol

ryan.6217:

animalmom.1062:

“Rune of Perplexity? There’s plenty of kittens exploiting this”

What is the exploit? Or do you mean using it as intended?

Yeah and I bet you use perplexity too… there’s a special place in the Fissure of Woe for people like you that "use perplexity for its intended purpose. If you need help making an ACTUAL build, there are people on the forums who can help you man.

I’m sorry, but I am still yet to die to anyone using perplexity runes on any of my toons in a 1vX situation. Why? Because I can pay attention. The runes really single out the skilled from the not-so-skilled.

lag

////////15char

vinceftw.5086:

I don’t think you guys understand this… It’s not having 15-25 stacks once that’s gamebreaking. It’s having that at ALL times during the fight. And nobody cares if the build isn’t in Spvp or not good for zergs because there are other ways to play.

I’ve fought engi’s, warriors, and thieves with the runeset and won every fight easily on a variety of classes. No class has the that many stacks on at all times. Warriors interrupts are on long enough cool downs that stripping it and capitalizing while they are down is completely plausible. Engi’s have the most access and make the best use of it, but most of their attacks are telegraphed and easily avoided. If you understand the ways in which they will combo you to stack confusion, you can avoid it pretty easily.

Like I said, you just have to pay attention.

Ross Biddle.2367:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbOT1oJEEwc

Watching you play a mesmer is painful.

Poorly timed dodges, poorly timed temporal curtains, poorly timed blocks, there is never any distance between you and your opponent, you’re using a focus in a condition spec which is laughable, and even then you only once made good use of Phantasmal Warden, most of the time you were trying to stealth shatter like a condition spec is made to insta-gib burst someone down.

That video showed nothing about the runeset’s effectiveness, only your lack of effectiveness.

vinceftw.5086:

Brienson.7319:

purgatoryz.6038:

Have you seen the engi and warrior roaming videos? These runes are heavily abused because there’s no internal cooldown on the 5 stacks.

Expect a massive nerf in a future patch. Anything less would be extremely surprising.

The only thing it is abusing is the stupidity of people who can’t handle a gimmick build that’s completely shut down by stability and a single condi clear.

Of course. How could I forget not to use stability all the time. Oh right, only warrior and guardian have them for crazy uptime. And you’re right, one condition clear is of course enough for the confusion (unless he also has some bleeds, poison on you) and for the confusion in the future that is stacked right back in 5 seconds.

The runes are amazingly broken but none of them are so cheesy as the thief, who just presses 2 buttons, 1 and 4.

I do agree with the others. The runes should really be nerfed hard and the classes that are supposed to have confusion, need their weapon skills/traits buffed.

The runes aren’t even in sPvP, they aren’t even remotely useful in PvE, and they only make any sense for someone roaming around in WvW in 1v1 or 1v2 scenarios. They serve basically no purpose in end-game regardless of server tier because every toon that’s built to maximize their effectiveness will not succeed in a zerg.

The runeset is simply making people have to pay attention like they did before the confuse nerf. Since most people are overwhelmed by this 10 button MMO, they have a problem and its laughable.

Brienson.7319:

purgatoryz.6038:

Have you seen the engi and warrior roaming videos? These runes are heavily abused because there’s no internal cooldown on the 5 stacks.

Expect a massive nerf in a future patch. Anything less would be extremely surprising.

The only thing it is abusing is the stupidity of people who can’t handle a gimmick build that’s completely shut down by stability and a single condi clear.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Half of my attempts weren’t immediately nullified by being endlessly knocked down from invisible sources every 5 seconds. My guess is someone recently did the encounter with the tornado’s. So I get the misfortune of having to fight invisible tornado’s on top of this already difficult fight. Sick game.

MrLT.6028:

Kiltor.9362:

a map zerg while we are gvging. yes it must be reality.

28 people is now a map zerg, who knew.
notice all the green names as well (i count 7), you know the ones not in BT.

As opposed to all of SoR. couldnt get a good screen shot since they wouldnt all fit in one shot

Your guild failed to kill me and the other spectators of the GvG while I was dancing in my town clothes. Shine my shoes.

Excalibur.9748:

isn’t 12.5k health elementalist = full zerker?

Yes. The OP is really something special…