Guild Wars 2

Going to repeat some things other have said for visibility

1.) The auto-attack is too slow with too little damage
2.) The auto attack should pierce and/or ricochet and bring ricochet back in the game for both pistol and rifle
3.) Stealth on kneel should be baseline
4.) Eliminate cast time on mark / allow it to be casted with no target
5.) The pathing on Death’s retreat is a little weird Depending on the surface, elevation, etc. it often wont teleport you backwards.
6.) Cantrips feel underwhelming
7.) Kneeling should be broken with WASD
8.) Kneeling #4 seems to be the only reason to kneel in the first place
9.) Deaths retreat could also be a small evade given that the distance traveled backwards is pretty minimal.
10.) Its weird to me that kneel is a weapon #5 ability instead of profession mechanic like “F3.” Despite having some new attacks in kneel, it feels like a weapon skill is being taken away from us.
11.) There’s no reason for stolen skills to disappear when combat ends.

DeceiverX.8361:

Real talk, most thieves didn’t go for the immediate backstab (most actually don’t even backstab since it’s a burst loss for D/P) and the ones who did often waited between 2 and 3 seconds to hit it. With SA out of the meta due to DrD, dodging on 2.25 made backstab very easy to avoid.

It didn’t need an ICD. Shadow Shot needed a nerf.

Thank you. You get it.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Mordecai.6318:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Mordecai.6318:

As the title has said, there is still no reason to run Shadow Arts.

I have no idea why the boon rip would be a new GM SA trait that will 100% be outperformed by Shadow Rejuvenation if you were to trait into SA.

That’s a common misconception. SR is not a staple trait since it encourages inactive game play. For players who plays actively, meaning less time staying in stealth, most of the time they ran Venom builds. VA was a bad GM trait but we have no choice not to pick it because they tied the venom CDR to it. With this patch deleting a long hated trait (VA), RS is a good GM trait replacement for Venom builds since the other GM does nothing for these builds. So, contrary to your belief, there are many incentives to spec for SA.

Unless you run an older variant of condi thief, nobody plays SA, and the vast majority of condi thieves still dont. Why would I sacrifice anything in DA/Trickery/DD to steal two boons? I can just run S/D coupled with steal and rip all of the boons I want without some backstab penalty or where I have to sacrifice traits to do so.

That’s a very narrow perspective on what RS is all about. Why should I run S/D to steal boons if I can keep my D/P (which is superior to S/D) and still able to steal boons? In addition, S/D has nothing to offer to my condition damage build, which has no way of stripping Resistance if RS do not exist. RS is good trait for my P/P Trapper Hybrid also since it gives this build a way to deal with boons without needing to equip S/D since I use P/P + D/D in this build.

Trickery can never be sacrificed therefore > SA.

Trickery has nothing to offer in many builds. Why do you think DA/CS/DD (power builds) even exist? And DA/SA/DD (venom build)?

Except for that part where you have to fully trait into a sub-par traitline to get something that should have been baseline given the new penalty.

If you’re talking about Trickery, I 100% agree with you. Preparedness should be base line and Steal should be 21s CD untraited. With boon strip capability in SA, there’s really no reason to spec for Trick other than for those two.

All of your points are negated by how effortlessly it is to avoid the 1, sometimes 2 backstab attempts you get. It was easy before the patch, but now its incredibly easy with both active/passive blocks and just general knowledge of the game. Most thieves are predictable in their openings and more often than not you can count to 3 and dodge and most thieves will miss. Tack on that extra second now and you have just wasted your initiative and stealth.

Count 3 and dodge? Really?

Based on the “general knowledge of the game”, a Thief can strike from 0 to 2 seconds given the fact that Backstab has a 0.25 casting time. If a Thief Backstab at the 3rd second, they will definitely miss and that’s a noob mistake.

If the Thief waits 3 seconds to execute a Backstab, the added extra second means nothing because either they hit with the BS, meaning they get Revealed, or they missed and ran out of stealth and it takes longer than 1s to get back to stealth, which again the added second is meaningless.

So to me, your knowledge of the Thief is lacking which seems to be the reason why you’re saying what you’re saying — statements from an ill-informed perspective.

And if you think insta boon rip/daze are inferior to a non-insta, situational attack that doesn’t CC your enemy then I feel like you’re missing out. The boon rip should be baseline with the new cool-down, even if it was only 1 boon. The fact is, you’re losing too much by running anything other than DA/DD/Trick. That’s just reality. The rest are gimmick builds.

Losing too much what? Even if you build DA/DD/Trick, if you cannot remove that pesky Aegis and Protection, you’re damage output is effectively at least 33% less against that target. Your Backstab is but a wet noodle against a brick wall. Making boon-strip baseline would mean that ArenaNet would have to nerf all our damage output just to balance it — in my opinion, that’s a bad direction to take.

I understand that text has no tone, but what I said was an exaggerated version of what really happens. However, the 1, 2, 3 thing works (generally) and has worked forever. There’s context to it, which is where I brought up awful thieves. Most of them leap 2-3 times, run up on you, and spam 1. By the time the visual indicator of their field goes away, I can generally speaking, wait 1-2 seconds and dodge. Amonatory and I were counting out loud last night and laughing at the thieves we encountered.

But since you want to be dense:
The point is that given positioning, your health, their health, their boons, the amount of stealth, dodges (which could be a ton cause thief), cooldowns, traps, how many people they have, what they had for breakfast, etc. are all variables that can ruin that entire trait. Backstabbing is now clunky and your opportunities to make that trait viable aren’t good. Amon and I duo roam on 2 thieves and 90% of the time are fighting 4-7 people. Sorry, but thats a ton of cleave, reveal, and burst I can take at any second. I need to get in and get out, but the timer makes that even harder. A kitten trait in a kitten line doesn’t change that.

And I remove aegis/protection all the time running the meta trait setup What are you talking about?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Mordecai.6318:

As the title has said, there is still no reason to run Shadow Arts.

I have no idea why the boon rip would be a new GM SA trait that will 100% be outperformed by Shadow Rejuvenation if you were to trait into SA.

That’s a common misconception. SR is not a staple trait since it encourages inactive game play. For players who plays actively, meaning less time staying in stealth, most of the time they ran Venom builds. VA was a bad GM trait but we have no choice not to pick it because they tied the venom CDR to it. With this patch deleting a long hated trait (VA), RS is a good GM trait replacement for Venom builds since the other GM does nothing for these builds. So, contrary to your belief, there are many incentives to spec for SA.

Unless you run an older variant of condi thief, nobody plays SA, and the vast majority of condi thieves still dont. Why would I sacrifice anything in DA/Trickery/DD to steal two boons? I can just run S/D coupled with steal and rip all of the boons I want without some backstab penalty or where I have to sacrifice traits to do so.

That’s a very narrow perspective on what RS is all about. Why should I run S/D to steal boons if I can keep my D/P (which is superior to S/D) and still able to steal boons? In addition, S/D has nothing to offer to my condition damage build, which has no way of stripping Resistance if RS do not exist. RS is good trait for my P/P Trapper Hybrid also since it gives this build a way to deal with boons without needing to equip S/D since I use P/P + D/D in this build.

Trickery can never be sacrificed therefore > SA.

Trickery has nothing to offer in many builds. Why do you think DA/CS/DD (power builds) even exist? And DA/SA/DD (venom build)?

Except for that part where you have to fully trait into a sub-par traitline to get something that should have been baseline given the new penalty.

If you’re talking about Trickery, I 100% agree with you. Preparedness should be base line and Steal should be 21s CD untraited. With boon strip capability in SA, there’s really no reason to spec for Trick other than for those two.

All of your points are negated by how effortlessly it is to avoid the 1, sometimes 2 backstab attempts you get. It was easy before the patch, but now its incredibly easy with both active/passive blocks and just general knowledge of the game. Most thieves are predictable in their openings and more often than not you can count to 3 and dodge and most thieves will miss. Tack on that extra second now and you have just wasted your initiative and stealth.

And if you think insta boon rip/daze are inferior to a non-insta, situational attack that doesn’t CC your enemy then I feel like you’re missing out. The boon rip should be baseline with the new cool-down, even if it was only 1 boon. The fact is, you’re losing too much by running anything other than DA/DD/Trick. That’s just reality. The rest are gimmick builds.

I hope more people try this terrible traitline so I can continue to 1 burst bad thieves.

It’s almost like they only thought about D/P and didn’t even consider how this further punished the already lackluster and underused weapon sets.

As the title has said, there is still no reason to run Shadow Arts.

I have no idea why the boon rip would be a new GM SA trait that will 100% be outperformed by Shadow Rejuvenation if you were to trait into SA.

Unless you run an older variant of condi thief, nobody plays SA, and the vast majority of condi thieves still dont. Why would I sacrifice anything in DA/Trickery/DD to steal two boons? I can just run S/D coupled with steal and rip all of the boons I want without some backstab penalty or where I have to sacrifice traits to do so.

Dash/Bound > SA
Deadly Arts > SA
Trickery can never be sacrificed therefore > SA.

Nothing has changed other than the ability to spam stealth attacks.

“This update has given a bit more baseline group utility to the thief, without requiring heavy investment via traits.” Except for that part where you have to fully trait into a sub-par traitline to get something that should have been baseline given the new penalty.

See you next nerf and/or bad patch.

lol. cant say im shocked.

Straegen.2938:

Thief still under performs in one of its main purposes which is duels and 1v1 fights. In sPvP it is still mostly relegated to +1 and mobility.

Do good players even sweat a power thief in a straight up fight any more?

For the most part, no. I’ts pretty much countered in a 1v1 setting by every class.

Engi – Obvious Counter
Guardian – Enough utility to counter. Dash makes it harder though.
Rev – Depends on the rev, but these are winnable. Still a hard match-up.
Meta Mesmer (condi)- Thief shouldn’t win
Necro – Unless you run dash this is a counter and realistically still is with dash.
Meta Warror – I kill bad warriors in WvW without trying, but a thief shouldn’t out-perform a warrior. Again, dash CAN make this manageable.
Meta Ele (bunker) – It wont kill you and you wont kill it.
Druid – IMO, a druid should win. It has more than enough utility to win. However, bad ones will still die like the other classes.

Thief is really only on an even playing field when fighting itself and against someone of equal skill level. Once that happens, a lot of it is up to chance with the plethora of dodges we get now. These fights are also rare because there aren’t a lot of good thieves at this point. Most of the people that still play it have played it since the beginning. Its way too unforgiving for most people to pick up and learn at this point.

Kolly.9872:

I don’t bother anymore.
I’ll keep playing my thief till I get bored and then quit for another 6 months.
I also don’t bother anymore in giving suggestions since this forum is never checked by devs.
In the end I’ll play any weapon set I wish to play, I don’t care if it’s considered bad for pvp, wvw or pve.
I don’t care anymore Anet.

Pretty much this. Apathy took over this forum so long ago.

I’m just assuming the trend will continue. We will see.

laokoko.7403:

This post is truly inspirational.

I feel your pain. I run around boarderland trying to do dailys or farm badge of honors. But out of no where come this roamer who try to gank me. I try to run away showing him I’m not interested, but he keep chasing me half way across the map. Even if I use a quaggan tonic to show I dont’ want to fight, he keep killing me.

I want to tell the community if you see someone run around boarderland, that dont’ necessary mean he is interested in fighting. Especially those in quaggan form. Please leave them alone. If you see people taking a camp, that most likely he is just doing dailys. At least wait for him to take the objective before trying to kill him.

Obviously everyone will continue ganking the OP just like they continuing ganking me… Which make the post kind of funny.

lol……….

Most of my teams in pvp consist of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hug0bIuGd4Q

YuiRS.8129:

This is a straight buff, it gives thieves more options. Just learn to use it.

What option did we gain? The ability to visually see a 20s timer? WOAH! Did people really have a hard time knowing when their steal was off CD?

Oxygen.5918:

Walker.3056:

This ^ really sucks now cause the “Stealth when steal” is a minor trait that cant be avoided if you take the SA line. this minor trait kittens thief so much that we will lose our "main"burst openners like for exemple you cant pre-cast CnD, steal, BS anymore cause you will be revealed. or BP,HS, steal, BS it will always fail…. this is really really bad.

Unless i didnt understand things right ANET should really change this minor trait. This trait alone makes the use of an offensive steal crap.

Right, I completely forgot it now becomes baseline. Ouch. They really need to look into it, then.

http://dulfy.net/2015/06/16/gw2-june-23-specialization-changes/#Thief

It’s not a minor nor is it baseline. Trait has almost always been useless anyways.

I don’t foresee this trait functioning any different than the current bug. There’s no way that BP+Mug is going to end up in anything but a reveal. Its going to be a blind+mug.

T raw.4658:

People not realizing that the stealth on steal trait will be used a lot after hot are funny.

This needs to be a priority fix ladies

So useful its not even in the SA traitline for HoT.
http://dulfy.net/2015/04/25/gw2-core-specializations/#Thief

Blackfish.7349:

mug + hidden thief never worked together? Mate, I dont know which game are u playing, but it is not gw2. Of course they worked, I have used the combination of these two traits for months. But now is not working anymore, u get revealed once the damage from mug triggers, wasting the hidden thief trait. My question is: Is this still a remaining bug and will be fixed or it is now working as intended?

I tried to use those two traits together on three different occasions since starting this game 2 weeks after release. There were instances were it worked and instances where it didnt, but it didnt work consistently enough to warrant using it. I just tried it two seconds ago, and as already stated and without surprise, it doesnt work.

Not to mention how terrible of a choice it is to actually use those two traits in combination with one another in the first place.

Tabootrinket.2631:

hmmmm…

so <mug> trait (which deals damage on steal) in power line, cannot be used in synergy with <hidden Thief> (which stealth you on steal) in the shadow arts line anymore.
It just gives you an instant reveal instead.

I’m kinda sad , the additional <mug> added to the pressure of the steal attack.

welp <corrosive trap> is kind of an alluring trait too huehuehue

those two traits never worked together.

NOM.9712:

Mordecai.6318:

I can’t play SD beyond a laughable level so I’m just going to browse the forums and post inflammatory comments fueled by jealousy. Also, I’m still not over how I lost more than a year ago while on SA carrion PD in that 1v1 tournament vs Kronos. Stealthing to clear my conditions is just aids.

Now…About the formatting – You do realize Kronos is mocking caed, right?

This is my last response before this turns into a serious kittening contest.

I play sword just fine (just dont prefer it) and did so in GvG for over a year with a guild that beat the best NA/EU. Since when is S/D the threshold for which we gauge skill?

It took kronos 45 minutes and a change in rules that removed virtually every defensive capability I had running P/D to beat me on a god awful spec that I fought Nex on for over an hour and was handed a victory because of how useless it was. And of course it was his patented Soldiers D/P that has zero intent of doing damage, but simply outlasting the opponent until they give up or make a mistake. But thanks for thinking that made up game modes and a fight that occurred over a year ago holds any merit.

But by your own logic I should see you talking about how the night before the tournament I won 3-0 in sanctum on mirror d/p SA so badly that Snuffles and Co. even berated him.

Gabriell.4856:

Mordecai.6318:

MLGKorno.5419:

I wasn’t going to post it but I’ve been trying to lose my reputation of running full soldiers in WvW and wanted some notoriety from dueling a “famous” thief who’s better in team fights than duels on an old meta spec so people can learn from something that’s already not good enough to compete and speculated to be even worse in a few months.

Obviously this format worked the last time with Caed. I wonder if lettuce will appear in round 2!

If you know Toker, he been running 2/0/06/6 for a while. So yeah…you’re post is pointless.

If you knew how to read/comprehend/knew anything, you’d know that A.) Toker hasn’t played that spec in months due to the current meta and B.) I wasn’t implying that he doesnt know the spec, but that the spec is borderline useless and rumored to be even weaker after HoT is released with the traitline changes. And C.) This is a post fishing for compliments over the most irrelevant chance driven encounters that hold no weight in practically every facet of the game.

Confirmed.

It works in a 3-4 second interval. Leaping once through Black Powder will reveal you once the stealth is over.
If you blast stealth or use a refuge it will reveal 3-4 seconds in but not actually reveal you to the enemy like leaping once does.

MLGKorno.5419:

I wasn’t going to post it but I’ve been trying to lose my reputation of running full soldiers in WvW and wanted some notoriety from dueling a “famous” thief who’s better in team fights than duels on an old meta spec so people can learn from something that’s already not good enough to compete and speculated to be even worse in a few months.

Obviously this format worked the last time with Caed. I wonder if lettuce will appear in round 2!

Same issue here and here is a screenshot showcasing exactly where.

Narcarsis.5739:

I don’t beg, I don’t need to. I’ve made plenty of my own gold and gems through tournaments and I have made that more than clear to people who donate. I ask almost everyone who has donated if they’re sure they want to and I definitely make sure they know it’s appreciated.

As for the underwear model, I’m a troll – and you’re easy to troll. =] If you don’t know that’s a joke by now then I feel sorry for you. You still seen upset about it after almost a year.

It’s like I know what you’re going to say before you do.

So you made enough gold/gems off of tourney’s, yet still had had to have that news-ticker type text scrolling across your stream asking specifically for incin and quip donations?

Oh, you trolled us all with the underwear model comment? You got me. Just like we all don’t watch you stare at yourself via stream and caress your hair for a myspace selfie like some 15 year old with an identity crisis.

You should change your name to “Narcissistic.” It’s more representative of your character, actions, and personality while remaining close to your current name.

Narcarsis.5739:

I never begged for anything. If you’re salty about people donating gold to streamers maybe you should start streaming and try to get people to like you instead of being a pretentious kitten.

You did, and were pretty blatant about it early on. Only towards the second legendary did you attempt to act humble about it. Also, I can’t be salty when I earned my legendaries without asking for help while pretending to like the 70 faceless people that watch me play video games.

As far as pretentious goes, coming from the guy who bragged in GF TS about being an underwear model, I’d say this is an obvious example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Narcarsis.5739:

I don’t like the sleeve, the footprints give you away occasionally, and the weapon engulfs you in flames when you weapon swap (gives away your weapon swaps). It’s not very subtle of a weapon.

You somehow didnt know this 1.5 years into the game before begging people on your stream for legendary donations?

xXBurningEmberXx.6085:

I mean, if someone cant see the animations on asura compared to charr, then they should get their sight checked… Its pretty easy to see your enemy flying at you in a heartseeker…

That’s not the animation anyone was having a hard time seeing…..sigh

Xtinct.7031:

anyone play p/p d/p? Perplexity rune balance builds with bewildering ambush?

Yes, incredibly high sustain and able to troll most things, but power is better overall as far as killing power with P/P from what I’ve used/seen/fought.

Syscord (Nema Tode) is the only thief I’ve fought that makes it work consistently against a variety of opponents. <3 from Cabbage

That celestial build was complete trash.

LetoII.3782:

Deejjster.3702:

my best friend.

We need to get you outside more often

Edit: I agree, this video surely suffered for it’s lack of Cabbage
here’s old times
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0y89ULDjf0&list=UUg7_Zw4MabSLLXkEW_fQvvw

Ahh! Good times. The amazing grace at the end. Tears

Celsith.2753:

Ah Cabbage I <3 you. I had picked up a few of my own mistakes in that vid, at the end of the day thats what the recording is for. As someone who ran condi yourself for months before it was popular I appreciate your input on everything I did that made you cringe

I miss you and your bewbs.

To be perfectly honest, that was some pretty mediocre gameplay, even for condi. Had you not been playing what you were, the result wouldn’t have been in your favor.

However, I’ve made a list of reasons why I thought it was mediocre that includes time stamps.

-A plethora of wasted dodges

-Hydromancy is a terrible idea for a sigil. Revealing yourself while gaining virtually nothing from a weapon swap would be a death sentence against good opponent(s). There are so many better sigil choices for a condi thief.

-40 seconds: Save Fear for downstate when its not needed to safely make a down in the first place.

-1:23 take advantage of your throw gunk/projectile finisher

-You never use your #2 immob. There are TONS of instances where that skill is incredibly useful.

-1:35 is an instance where you could have immob’d that guardian chasing cel preventing any damage that could have finished her from the guard.

-1:44 On the same token you could have turned on the guardian, further elimating pressure with a CnD+steal that would have more than likely proc’d your plexity and allowed you to reposition without wasting a stunbreaker.

Ultimately the lack of counter pressure while being chased when you had the burst available forces you and cel to retreat, to use mobs (lol, when there were plenty of areas near the camp to use to your advantage to get CnD’s), and put your burst on a 20 second cooldown.

-3:12 dat revealed timer.

-3:20 you fear the target away from your melee range then try to cnd? O_o Chain an immob with the fear to get the CnD.

-3:35 You just stand in every red field taking damage trying to force a stomp you knew wouldnt happen.

-3:54 Another fear that would have been better served closer to downstate rather than to make the down. Instead, you waste a stunbreaker/condi cleanse to get a stomp when you didnt need to.

-4:37 You face tank a warrior. #3 prevents that without even having him targeted. Warriors with a GS should really ever hit you. It’s too easy to kite.

-4:53 Landing steals is too critical to miss. Anticipate dodges.

-5:04 That shadowstep stomp actually made me lol.

-5:20 is a great example of what I mean about the uselessness
of hydromancy. You reveal yourself while doing no damage, only for the chill to fall off before you can capitalize because of bad secondary weapon selections and because you immediately went on the defense for some reason at full hp.

-5:29 Instead of just getting 2-3 leaps off without a target you jump into the necromancers fields and kill yourself. A quick shadowstep cleanse + steal + 3 would have put you in a much better position.

-6:11 too bad you dont have a fear for that stomp now that black powder blinds 1/3 of the time.

-6:35 just a LOT of delayed reactions. Could have SS cleansed, swapped, d/p, feared and stealthed.

-6:52 lol

-7:00 Cel, clearly had the necro finished while you had a burst set up. Rather than wasting it on the necro that was going to die in seconds, you could have pan’d your camera/anticipated the counter pressure that ALWAYS happens when you make a down. The Warrior instead mauls you and forces you to waste your heal. The ONE time you dont prematurely use your fear, you dont even use it to secure the stomp after taking a kitten ton of damage. The separation between you and the enemy would have already existed without you having to melt and flee in D/P.

-8:26 did you not look at the health bar before trying to do that stupid flashy stomp?

-8:32 Just CnD+infil signet. No need to swap D/P and waste 10 seconds of time.

-8:40 Again, another wasted counter burst opportunity when you knew the guardian was going to go down. This causes you to melt to another warrior.

-9:14 If he’s going to chase you, IMMOB, #3, dodge to cripple, move in for CnD or whatever. Good Day.

I tried them, they aren’t OP. There isnt a cooldown. It’s a gimmicky runeset that’s fun to use if you’re bored.

Sergiu.3698:

or maybe u should learn something elses besides 3.3111.33.11 f1 etc.

because there is any other practical option. kitten off.

Before I share my thoughts, I want to ask a question.

What was Anet’s intended outcome from this nerf? Does anybody really know?

Sword has been nerfed in pretty much every balance patch to date, some warranted and others not. This happens to be one that was 100% unwarranted.

Lets look at the current sword meta(s):
2/0/2/4/6 or 2/0/0/6/6 Acro Evasion S/D-SB
2/0/6/0/6 S/D-XX

Now, anyone who has played a thief knows the ONLY complaint comes from the #3 ability, which happens to be the focus of this patch…again. The comment was always the same:
“LOL 3 SPAM EVADING NOOB” and any other variation of that phrase.

If you are running the Shadow Arts build then this was only somewhat possible at the expense of blowing through all of your initiative. However, throw the trait feline grace into the mix and that’s where things become problematic. This has been stated MANY MANY time already, but perhaps doing so once more will help. Ultimately, what Anet has done here is this:

You’ve essentially taken the entire evade complaint and made it worse, while simultaneously ruining the S/D weapon sets ONLY burst. Because now you can get 4 evades from Sword #3, 2 from Signet of agility, and basically 3 from dodging with feline grace. This doesn’t even count the vigor from steal/bountiful theft. So instead of nerfing the trait the synergized with a weaponset and making it overpowered, you nullify the entire weaponset and make the evade problem even more ridiculous.

The normal amount of evades by default is 2. Given that the current meta doesnt change with thief, thats 9 evades you can pull off by spamming before vigor. Like, is that honestly what you wanted?

I tested them, hilarity.

oscuro.9720:

Hi! I play thief (p/d build for three years now) and have an engi (fully geared in rabid/dire gear) that I play occasionally for a hiatus from the single target domination that is the thief. I feel most Condi thieves nowadays are all crap, but that is most likely because I know the nuances of the class. Bombs are your best friend. You can keep away any thief by dropping that nasty little fire bomb. Be willing to switch out of bomb kit without dropping all of the bombs, something I have noticed many engineers are reluctant to do. Your pistol can stack more conditions than they can, and they have worse Condi removal. When they enter stealth using SR or blinding powder or heal, throw up some blocks. That’s how I kill me, and that’s not how my thief dies

I’m not really sure how you could be anymore wrong.
-First, this game hasn’t even been out 3 years, so I’m 100% positive you haven’t played condi thief that long.
-Second, if you’re keeping a P/D condi thief at bay with bomb kit then that thief has no idea what they are doing. You seem to be forgetting that part where there’s a HUGE insta-cast steal combo that will decimate anything in the game – not to mention the fact that you are using a ranged weapon set so getting hit by bombs is impossible unless you walk into them.
-Third, thieves have the best condi removal in the game. Do you even play this game? The entire engineer repertoire of condi removal is weaker than one trait of the thief’s.

So the only semi-correct thing you offered him was to block when the thief enters stealth. Which is up every 40 (assuming you’re using shield) or 20 seconds with toolkit. That’s like 5-8 different bursts the thief can setup on the block cooldowns alone.

6. What do you intend to teach in the guide? 5 1 1 1 2 1, interupt with 4, 3 is gap close, 2 when their low. When your health gets low, heal. Stunbreak out of stuns. Don’t miss your mug. Sorry if I spoilled most of the guide for you

Yes, because this is any different than your video on “how to land CnD” with a bunch of techniques the entire community figured out over a year ago and didn’t even know had names until you came along like Yishish 2.0, except you’re irrelevant.

…and what are roaming numerals?

Juston.6817:

Nope classic is 2/6/0/6/0

He clearly asked for the ‘classic’ trickery spec. Sorry.

Lamuness.3570:

dDuff.3860:

Try classic trickery build wi s/d with runes of strenght and sigil of strenght – stealing might from engis and warriors is your bread and butter. LS can crit up to 7k on some squishies. Yes, you’re less tanky but you are not supposed to stay on a point fighting warriors and engis, i mean you’re thief huh! Subtlety and planning is your way to play. At least for me. I’m not judging you just giving my 2 cents.

Standard Trickery? 5/6/0/0/3? What traits would you use? I tried this with S/D and it didn’t come up with anything good

The ‘classic’ trickery build is 2/6/0/0/6.

I have a hard time believing you were literally so shocked that you felt the rest of the community needed another substance-less post about the difficulty of P/D. You’re a year late to the party.

Skrill.6170:

Coloxeus.3480:

apocom.3172:

So you have copied Sizers build. GZ.

I dont even know whos sizer is lol and i play this rune of str. With 3 diff build 2/6/0/6/0 or 2/0/0/6/6 or 2/3/0/3/6 all with power of inertia

Sizer = best thief.
(Member of tcg, winner of tol..)

I’m 100% certain that doesn’t equate to being the best thief.

They do plenty of damage.

FeelsAlright.5860:

Roxx.8713:

apocom.3172:

So you have copied Sizers build. GZ.

It isnt sizers build

Amonatory played it before it goes meta

Every build, every where has been played before. Sizer popularized it, so it’s his build.

I have a friend who has played with these traits/setup for over a year. The only difference is the strength runes post patch. This isnt new, it’s not Amon’s setup, and its not Sizers.

AikijinX.6258:

Amonatory.2453:

The only 2 things I hated about fighting this is the weakness and you camping the Bp intelligently so my sword couldn’t cleave. It’s a good build, but then again I had very little condi cleanse aha.

<3 <3 Atleast you’re not mad at me anymore

We’ve all experienced it.

Mikey.1456:

Lets me know what you guys think about the build been playing with the build for a very long time.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZQQRAqY4alsMp0plPx7JsPNBTRwdRwgnnvdeFB-TVSAABaoEUhHAQO6Pgw830HEAAODAXp8DJ1f6Z/BSBAx0I-w

These are IMO:
-Hard to Catch is pretty much a worthless trait. Going 20 into that tree is more or less worthless as well. Its 100% bunker, which is pretty unnecessary.
-Might on dodge doesn’t really out weight the vigor you could be having especially since you already have permanent might stacks from SA.
-Blind on stealth is way more powerful that SA III. It actually can be your saving grace. You already have high armor and HP on a defensive weapon set, having two sources of regen is not necessary.
-Hopefully you can get ascended jewels
-Duration has always been the ‘make or break’ of condi builds and your duration simply does not exist without food. Givers weapons are a much better option as is 10 in Deadly Arts for mug/poison/extra duration.

Amonatory.2453:

Mordecai.6318:

Amonatory.2453:

Mordecai.6318:

Amonatory.2453:

I seen caed duel in a tourny a couple weeks ago, he is way overhyped I was not impressed at all.

I’d agree he’s over hyped, but hes actually really good and plays thief with the highest skill cap possible.

The tourney he was in had a majority of players using Shadow Arts III as an alternative to Shadow Rejuv. He also lost to a notably good medi guard which is the direct counter to ALMOST all melee thieves, especially those without Shadow Arts.

To play devils advocate, you lost first round in both tourneys and lost to a warrior which isn’t an overly difficult fight given the weapon sets you use. Granted, I was not present at this tourney to see whether or not you ran your normal setup. If not, I’m not really surprised by the outcome.

I ran a build I made on the fly, and lost to a m/s lb warrior. Not a big deal I lost fair and square. But, when I watched caeds fight he literally didn’t do anything to the guardian with either one of his builds he played.

You and I both know that a medi guard is a REALLY tough fight even with Shadow Arts. I wouldn’t expect caed to be able to do anything against Aldix with a 10/30/0/0/30 ogre rune setup. Everything is going to be blocked, dodged, blinded or mitigated whereas Caed is like 200% vulnerable to even sceptor AA damage. That fight is the epitome of an uphill battle.

The same cannot be said about a fighting a warrior for this specific instance.

I rarely have trouble with medi guards, and Caed was using 30 in SA not his other build. I beat the guardian with 10 in SA just for a fun duel, but caed didnt stand a chance.

So he used a build hes spent like 5% of his thousands of hours on that has less DPS than hes used to. Again, I dont think Caed is all that, but you’ve attempted to completely undermine his abilities and accomplishments because of 1 performance when the reality is that his accomplishments are far greater than anyone that enters snuffle’s tourneys.

You all are also forgetting that 1v1’s dont really make good players and realistically hold no weight in this game other than bragging rights. Team fights are what really showcase what people are capable of. Something you have admitted to being terrible at and I’ve had first hand experience in witnessing and experiencing from doing 5v5’s. I’ll be impressed by Kronos or you or anyone else when they perform as well as Caed in team fights AND as well in 1v1’s on a high skill ceiling build.

Pz.

Mbelch.9028:

Mordecai.6318:

Amonatory.2453:

Mordecai.6318:

Amonatory.2453:

I seen caed duel in a tourny a couple weeks ago, he is way overhyped I was not impressed at all.

I’d agree he’s over hyped, but hes actually really good and plays thief with the highest skill cap possible.

The tourney he was in had a majority of players using Shadow Arts III as an alternative to Shadow Rejuv. He also lost to a notably good medi guard which is the direct counter to ALMOST all melee thieves, especially those without Shadow Arts.

To play devils advocate, you lost first round in both tourneys and lost to a warrior which isn’t an overly difficult fight given the weapon sets you use. Granted, I was not present at this tourney to see whether or not you ran your normal setup. If not, I’m not really surprised by the outcome.

I ran a build I made on the fly, and lost to a m/s lb warrior. Not a big deal I lost fair and square. But, when I watched caeds fight he literally didn’t do anything to the guardian with either one of his builds he played.

You and I both know that a medi guard is a REALLY tough fight even with Shadow Arts. I wouldn’t expect caed to be able to do anything against Aldix with a 10/30/0/0/30 ogre rune setup. Everything is going to be blocked, dodged, blinded or mitigated whereas Caed is like 200% vulnerable to even sceptor AA damage. That fight is the epitome of an uphill battle.

The same cannot be said about a fighting a warrior for this specific instance.

The flaw in your logic is someone did beat the guardian. On a thief. And went on to win that tourney. So. By real logic, that guy is the best thief.

But by all means, conveniently leave that part out.

Had SA, and kronos runs sword which goes along with my comment about Medi guards being the direct counter to ALMOST all melee thieves. Swords are the obvious exception. Combine it with either s/p and or d/p as kronos more than likely did and its much more manageable.

slender.1482:

Mordecai.6318:

johnpoc.8732:

P/D perplex with the new trickery grandmaster trait is stupidly OP. I tried it out, it’s easy mode game

Sacrificing the 6 part of the rune set while simultaneously sacrificing an instant interrupt only to generate the same amount of confuse stacks is really foolish.

It’s a trade off – With sleight of hand the confusion is not guaranteed but the interrupt to trigger perplexity is easier to pull off

With bewildering ambush the confusion is guaranteed, but triggering perplex is harder to pull off with basilisk or d/p headshotting. I’ve stacked bewildering ambush + throw gunk + perplex (4) and (6) to get 18 stacks of confusion

If you’re using steal with a purpose and watch for animations then your sleight of hand is pretty much always going to hit as its an instant daze. Losing the steal cooldown, an interrupt for heals, mass invis’, etc. is not just worth it if you’re worth your salt.