(edited by Mrbig.8019)
Do you main Thief?
Yes, I am one of the baddest thief you will ever find in EU.
I’ve been playing with my thief since launch(aka. Evisceratrix [permabanned])
I have mastered all weapon sets, and played a wide range of builds and variations.When do you feel that Pistol Whip is unbalanced? (scenarios would be great)
To me, personally I think Pistolwhip is unbalanced, due to the Dodge capability, the animation is sometime glitched(like standing on place but actually casting the skill)
There are hidden secrets about Pistolwhip, and how to totally dominate in PvP with it.-When you cast pistolwhip you are dodging all the attacks until the animation ends.
-While doing the animation, you gain initiative from trait, and from seconds, so the ini regeneration is quite you know
-Pistolwhip damage is way too high for the cost of 5 initiative, I’ve tested builds, and I still hit 5k – 7k with only 20% crit dmg
-the stuns on pistolwhip is horrible and just plain horrible and should be removed even if its 0.5ms, for some reason its like 1s or (gives big disadvantage on other classes)
-even my little sister could kill an elementalist as long as I tell her to press button 3 all the timeto sum it all up why its unbalance due to
-stun
-dodge
-huge damage
-gives big disadvantage to players (skilled or un-skilled)How does it feel unbalanced compared to other class mechanics?
Pistolwhip destroys the fun… its like back in the spam 2 heartseeker era.
one skill, 10 dead bodiesWhat would you do to change Pistol Whip to better fit the class/game?
-To keep pistolwhip balance either you could do theseV1
-Remove Stun
-keep the damage
-Increase initiaive cost to 7
-remove the dodgeV2
-Keep stun
-increase initiative cost to 7
-remove the dodge
-minimise the damage 20%V3
-Increase initiaive cost to 7
-keep dodge
-remove stun
-minimise the dmg 20%V4
-Increase initiative cost to 7
-remove dodge
-remove stun
-keep the damageV5
-increase initiative cost to 8
-increase damage 20%
-remove dodge
-remove stunV6 (HARD MODE)
-increase initiative cost to 8
-no changesI like how liewec said about the vulnerability, but confusion? nope..
its a good idea to give pistolwhip a condition effect like vulnerability, imagine, you’re being slashed, lets be realistic, if you get slashed, do your armor remain intact? nope.. you
become vulnerable.. lolanyways, I can’t be bothered writing things down in formal way.
First time PW has same DPS as AA chain(AA chain make cripple and weknes and ofc cost ZERO initiative)
Secondly increase initiative cost on 7 or 8 ? This is best joke in this topic
Looks like you have not played the thief in life
Are you serioulsy telling this to SINISTER ?
This is the reason why threads like this have absolutely no sense, because any random can feel entitled to know stuff.
Personally i agree with Sinister and if anything, the issue right now is ini regenerating too fast with PW animation being very long ( aka regening craptons of ini while doing so, spamming even more PW).
But tbh the real problem with thieves is the whole ini system, paired with a boring and idiotic profession mechanic with absolutely no flexibility ( Steal) being overbuffed due to the reasons stated above.
Something that lead to the idiotic achievement of doing so much with a single button.
Instantly.
Thief needs a redesign, not a simple “shave”
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(edited by Mrbig.8019)
tbh, trickery thieves ( S/P-D/P) are very weak against condies: 1 full wipe ( lyssa) every 45 secs and 3 condi cleanse tied to a stunbreak ( shadowstep), with S/P being quite better tough sacrificing a lot for it ( condi cleanse on inf return: if you dump your ini to cleanse, you deal no damage).
Thieves are shifting toward trickery, that is tied to higher risk-reward than dumb S/D acro.
Again, we need to put things in perspective: thieves have the best mobility, so they’ll ALWAYS be the best roamers.
Ofc they need to be strong 1vs1 ( it was aNet vision to make them like this) so there’s really no point in trying to fit other proffs into this archetype, because they’ll fall under thieves.
Old burst meta mesmer is the perfect example of a glass cannon being brought into a team for different reasons rather than pure damage: other classes should shift towards this kind of archetype.
If other classes could bring different kind of support instead of simple raw damage, this, along with wars nerf ( because warriors existance creates an “easy” way to avoid such things) could bring TONS of diversity.
Staff ele is also a good example, tough not viable.
aNet should start making things right before it’s too late.
Imho lacking “mandatory” interdependency is a huge problem. I know, it is what many ppl want (I am certain some warriors want it that way for sure). But it is this lacking interdependency that causes the strong 1vs1-builds/classes. You/we have to look at the circumstances.
And that brings me to the bolded part: Can you elaborate on, what you mean? Because being strong 1vs1 does include a lot of unfortunate things, if you have to take every possible counter into consideration, and that is frankly where I feel, that a build like S/D-evade-spam does cause some un-fun mechanisms – not to mention ragebursts and headaches
I hope I make sense; if not I can elaborate on it.
Thief is strong 1vs1 but also squishy, its point presence is almost irrelevant ( unlike wars, with big persistent AoEs and invulnerabilities) and can be countered by almost all classes ( S/D acro is another story but really few people still run it in EU, altough it’s by far thief best 1vs1 build).
Every class can kill a thief 1vs1, but they can also lose, and this is really how it should be.
But if you match strong 1vs1 capabilities with the best mobility and stealth you have an unmatched roamer.
So there’s really no point in forcing other proffs into this role.
Let’s make them different than a simple " raw damage dealer" like the thief.
Since pistol whip animation buff, s/p > d/p slightly because of evade frames and sword 2. I think once you’ve played d/p enough and understand the flaws, then s/p will definitely be superior to play especially against another d/p thief. The fight will depend on the better thief, but if we’re talking about players of the exact caliber, then I think s/p would win for sure. It really comes down to timing and anticipation/guessing.
Yea you can headshot the pistol whip cast but why would you waste 4ini to daze and tickle someone for 1/4s only for them to do it again? You’re not going to be able to do headshot while simultaneously dealing damage to them so you’re wasting loads of ini…seems like a pointless trade off. If I see you daze me and leap at me with HS out of blind field, i’ll pistol whip then and you’ll eat the whole thing…
Pre-daze nerf I would agree since you can still auto attack 2x before they come out of daze, but post-daze nerf, no.
Oh and spamming BP against a s/p thief is dumb…don’t do it.
its not 1/4s , if u stun the PW, they wait about 3~s to be able to do it again, 3s in thief world is a lot
You have got to be kidding me…
Please do yourself a favor and don’t post unless you know what you’re talking about…and it’s obvious you don’t even play a thief.
Lesson for you:
Thieves run on intiative, not cooldown time in seconds like all other classes. If you stun/daze my pistolwhip or any other weapon skill, it will put ALL of my skills on the same stun duration as your skill (I.E: Headshot has a 1/4s daze, thus all my skills will go on a 1/4s shutdown)
I will immediately be able to use whatever weapon skill I please after that 1/4s daze. It will NOT put my pistol whip on a 3s CD upon interupt because IT HAS NO CD. Try it for yourself. This is my reasoning behind why I don’t think Caed’s suggestion of dazing the pistol whip helps with the fight at all…you cannot do damage while simultaneously dazing them because the daze duration is too short. Not to mention you have to waste 4ini just for it. Since post-daze nerf, it’s totally not worth it.
You’re thinking about dazing/stunning a skill on a class whose weapon skills runs on CD times. Say, if I interupt a warrior’s Backbreaker(which has a 1s cast-time and a 30s CD) with Headshot, , I will put that particular skill on a 3s CD, while all his other skills will be put on a 1/4s CD.
The only way you’re going to disable a thief for 3s is if your skill actually stuns/dazes for 3s like Signet of Domination on a mesmer. You cannot put any of the thief’s skills on a 3s CD.
Again, i agree S/P is superior to both D/P and S/D, but D/P will ALWAYS win in a duel, unless outplayed.
The last 2 words sums up every thief 1v1 fight’s outcome. Being outplayed is what it comes down to in the end because thieves have very little margin for error compared to a lot of other classes/builds. That’s why most good thief 1v1s end up looking like DBZ battles, right?
lol yeah
What i’m saying is that if you compare 2 guys of the same caliber, D/P has the upper hand mostly thanks to higher stealth uptime and S/P lacks of “istant” dodges like S/D.
It’s the same reason why S/D is an overall better dueling build ( FS-AA-LS with dodge here and there, port away, without losing damage while S/P needs to stay on the target in order to keep the pressure, another reason why S/P has a lot higher skill floor than S/D).
But if we account that S/P is not THAT worse than S/D in dueling capabilities + CCs+stab-stomp interrupts-cleave damage it’s obvious that S/P trickery is current best choice, especially if your team does his job properly.
And, unlike S/D, it CAN be countered without relying on pure luck.
Edit to your edit:
Steal-stab will mostly come out at the beginning.
BP+HSx3= 6 secs of stealth. Position yourself and steal-stab as soon as your opponent is out of dodges-casts PW.
Even if he has withdraw, he will still be poisoned.
Steal-stab+fire sigil = 8-9k damage, or rather 60% of S/P overall health. if you count WD poisoned heal ( 3k +-) he will end up with 9 k health, already on the defensive.
This is how standard duels go, among skilled thieves, in duel servers.
In NA i heard you don’t have it, you really should create one.
In tPvP it’s a whole different story, in that case i agree with you, since it’s very unlikely that a D/P thief will spam stealth while roaming.
(edited by Mrbig.8019)