Guild Wars 2

Elxdark.9702:

Dude I don’t want to sound rude but How long till you get good at this game?

Like really, every I mean EVERY kittening thread/post from you is about whining, nerf this nerf that buff this buff that, balance these balance those STOP already.

And why people still think S/D is broken, IT DOESN’T.

What brought back S/D again into the meta? new runes/sigils.

Do you want to see when S/D was OP? let me find some random video from Jumper when s/d was beyond op when 2 was a stunbreak and had not cd when FS stole 2 buffs instead of 1.

In those times S/D was broken, OP, strong, or w/e you want to name it. S/D is good in this meta only for the buffs to runes/sigils.

EDIT: The only thing I will nerf would be Feline Grace.

S/D is not good in this meta, it’s literally broken.

I know perfectly that the main problem are runes and sigils, point is they need to be addressed fast cuz thief is literally removing 80% of build diversity in PvP: basically current meta has nothing to do with “right comps, good meshing” and kittenz, current meta is “everything that doesn’t get instagibbed by a thief” with the sole exception of mesmer and only because portal too stronk.

S/D thief currently cannot fail against anyone, he can even over extend for such absurds amount of times there’s no point even in building a team strategy, just play it like if you were in solo q.

Thief shouldn’t have high damage, high survivability and the best mobility: it’s broken.

Seriously, that thief build is bullkitten.

I feel sorry everytime i play it, sad part is i have to play it cuz of random condies floating around and celestial builds everywhere.

Do something.

Phaeton.9582:

Class balance is fine. The builds the game is balanced around aren’t.

Think about it.

oO

QFT.

S/D teef is ruining my life IRL, now i’m constantly evading all my duties.

Then it steals my will, i’m dazed.

It’s super effective.

Phantaram.1265:

Lots of talk about celestial amulets and might stacks but not kittens. Really disappointing.

I have a kitty her name is socks.

U right phanta, behold my almighty kitten

Sagat.3285:

Then they will switch to defensive sigils,energy sigils on PU mesmers,cleric guard or s/d thieves is not the easiest to fight but people just deal with it since necro have limited endurance regen.

WOT

Serdoc.7261:

Mrbig.8019:

Hello frands, time to talk about current plagues, something that is seriously hampering current gameplay and meta and will without any doubt hamper ToL2 and all the following tournaments.

1: Celestial amulet

This amulet, currently, is a joke.

2604 stat is bullkitten, zerker amulet is the second in rank and gives THREE HUNDRED less stats ( 2340).

By far the best amulet for professions having mixed damage ( condi and power) you basically have a bunker dealing WAY WAY TOO MUCH DAMAGE.

Current D/D eles are a way worse version than old S/D bunker eles: before they used to contest a point for ages, now they even kill you, and if you run a squishy build ( like D/P thief) you may EVEN DIE from AoEs in 2vs1.

Of course this problem becomes huge only when added to the second one, or rather…

2: Might stacking, Might Runes and Double Air-Fire sigils

This runes are way more gamebraking than celestial amulet, tho when paired togheter they become the most broken thing this game ever met ( along with problem 3).

All current meta revolves around this rune set.

All meta builds use these runes, sometimes even if they have no reliable way to stack might.

These runes, on professions able to stack might, make sure to deal RIDICOLOUS DAMAGE when built for bunkering ( aka: 5k BLANK arcing arrows, etc…).

This shouldn’t be possible, in no way.

Double air-fire sigils allow profession with low damage output to overcome this issue, especially since their damage scales with might ( hint hint)

Moreover, might stacking and double air-fire sigils lead to the most ridicolous thing this game has ever seen, or rather….

Ok, genuine question. I hear a lot of people say the overall Meta is too bunker/tank heavy. IF your proposed nerfs of Celestial Amulet, Might stacking, and Fire+Air Runes were to happen, wouldn’t that just make the meta even worse? Shouldn’t we be trying to balance the game in such a way as to give more professions a better choice of offensive options?

Current meta is bunker heavy cuz runes and air-fire sigils ( and intelligence, to a certain degree) help compensate the power you don’t get from traits/offensive amulets.

If you nerf these cheap options, you are forced AGAIN to go offensive in order to deal damage.

My solution would be to bring back air-fire sigils shared CD, or at least make them to have “fixed damage” instead of having them to scale with power ( or worse, with might stacking).

Might stacking needs to be nerfed.

Might runes need to disappear and might stacking should be capped to 10

Celestial amulet should be nerfed, 400 stats instead of 434 each would be a good start, even more if they nerf might stacking into the ground.

Game is balanced now.

Thank me later.

3: 2-0-0-6-6 S/D thieves

Most broken build this game has ever seen, by far.

Basically a “no weak point” thief, with great survivability, good damage, among the best 1vs1 professions in game AND the best mobility.

No way to counter this kinda of thief if not with a better thief, and if you’re the best thief the only way to beat you is to counter comp ( when possible) otherwise your team will already start at a disadvantage ( ofc this is accounted as a theoretical scenario, i’m not talking about sizer).

This build sums up all the issues in current meta: celestial amulets ( so any mistake will get you killed since they’ll ALWAYS outsustein you), might stacking ( paired with cele ammu allows bunker to deal heavy damage, moreover it can be stolen by thieves increasing even more their damage output), double air-fire sigils ( making up for no investment in damage traitline for thieves, and spec into their VERY STRONG, both offensively and defensively, traitlines, acrobatics and trickery).

Solutions ?

Hello frands, time to talk about current plagues, something that is seriously hampering current gameplay and meta and will without any doubt hamper ToL2 and all the following tournaments.

1: Celestial amulet

This amulet, currently, is a joke.

2604 stat is bullkitten, zerker amulet is the second in rank and gives THREE HUNDRED less stats ( 2340).

By far the best amulet for professions having mixed damage ( condi and power) you basically have a bunker dealing WAY WAY TOO MUCH DAMAGE.

Current D/D eles are a way worse version than old S/D bunker eles: before they used to contest a point for ages, now they even kill you, and if you run a squishy build ( like D/P thief) you may EVEN DIE from AoEs in 2vs1.

Of course this problem becomes huge only when added to the second one, or rather…

2: Might stacking, Might Runes and Double Air-Fire sigils

This runes are way more gamebraking than celestial amulet, tho when paired togheter they become the most broken thing this game ever met ( along with problem 3).

All current meta revolves around this rune set.

All meta builds use these runes, sometimes even if they have no reliable way to stack might.

These runes, on professions able to stack might, make sure to deal RIDICOLOUS DAMAGE when built for bunkering ( aka: 5k BLANK arcing arrows, etc…).

This shouldn’t be possible, in no way.

Double air-fire sigils allow profession with low damage output to overcome this issue, especially since their damage scales with might ( hint hint)

Moreover, might stacking and double air-fire sigils lead to the most ridicolous thing this game has ever seen, or rather….

Waiting for this thread to be moved to the “graveyard” like the old ones.

2 by shad, 2 by me, all merged and all sent to “profession balance forum”, roflmao.

Sizer.2654:

Sd thieves r not the problem , it is trickery steal !!

Ways to fix steal would be to remove the short amount of period a character moves extremely slow after being dazed / steal.

Increase it’s cd or

Make it that when your specced on dazing your steal in return does 50% less dmg or no dmg at all

I would love to see a nerf to steal , to increase the gap between good and bad thiefs

No sizer, trickery steal is not the problem.

The problem is that current meta focuses on might stacking AND might runes ( + might stacking boon steal) + strenght runes sixth bonus FINALLY working ( after 2 years) + air-fire sigil damage scaling with power ( and might consequentially) allow that therefore useless build ( 2-0-0-6-6 ) with no damage whatsoever to hit like a truck.

Do you remember how u struggled in 1vs1 arena after patch before putting traits into trickery ?

No thief build should be able to put such damage without points into CS, a thief can’t have good damage, high survivability AND the best mobility in a single package.

That’s just broken.

ShakeItOut.6781:

Saying and repeating that s/d is not the problem without justifying with arguments why perma dodge shouldn’t be nerfed doesn’t help this thread. Besides, we are talking about s/d nerf, not all thief’s spec nerf: the increase in steal cd wouldn’t help at all, imho. Let’s talk, on the other hand, about nerfing the acrobatics line which is, according to lots of people here, the main problem and, second, doing something about double sigil proc.

Acro traitline is not the problem, without trickery steal that build would be very very weak even against S/P thieves ( and against almost all other meta builds) since it would lack the sustain traited steal gives ( 2k heal on a 20 sec CD) AND ( mostly) the attack of opportunity + double boon steal+ vigor traited steal gives.

Acro thieves shouldn’t have it, cuz they already have tons of evades.

Trickery thieves shouldn’t have it, cuz it is already enough as a self sustain-defending tool.

This explains why S/D 2-0-0-6-6 is an abomination for this game.

Remove rune of strenght ( mostly due to the fact A SINGLE RUNE SET is settling the meta) and bring back air-fire shared cooldown, or make them FIXED DAMAGE instead of making them scale with might

No more 2-0-0-6-6 S/D thieves will exist, 100% sure.

We need more of this.

Point is nobody cares about being good in this game.

When aNet will decide to make PvP something worth to invest time for, i hope you’ll still be here explaining what players should do when playing a certain profession.

When Lisey and Fixi offered their help, very few answered.

I hope this time it will go better.

i was here.

Pls remove thx

listen to dis guy guise, he plays powa nec so he knows his kitten.

Seriously, this should be stickied till they fix everything has been said in the OP.

Tage.7045:

FIX this broken imaginative mmr system already, how these players like that can be in top 10 they shoudlnt even be able to q unless they break some matches…

8. Ophelia 6 5 54.55%

Not even visible raiting , broken leadboard , mmr getting ppl with no clue about the game cuz u cant make smthg that noobs would have to break some matches first like in Dota example and than let them play rank. Also why still skyhammer u think its balanced map yeah prolly it is getting pull from r1 player wiht 0 exp who doesnt even have binds from steahlth so pro… Still in alpha not gonna play soloq again unless its fixed

tage in rage.

gud.

solo q is a total disaster, i’m starting to hate it more and more instead of enjoying it.

i would be fine if people playing in it currently knew how to play ( according Op point saying " i hate my rating being determined by randoms), point is they’re mostly clueless, but really like i’ve never seen before.

Add this to skyhammer and you have something that is way more frustrating than enjoyable.

Solo q leaderboards makes no sense since 90% of high rating guys are afkers playing once in a week.

I would remove the system completely till they fix it for real.

mega kangaskhan balanced imo

Blackjack.5621:

everywhere? I only know 1-2 builds that even use this rune in competitive pvp and it´s nice that it´s possible to tweak builds around 1v1 if you are a far agressor / home defender or whatever.

it’s not nice if the main source of damage in the combat log is a bird.

title says it all.

Wilco.1458:

Mrbig.8019:

tichorum.2415:

Mrbig.8019:

Not enough.

these runes should be deleted.

They’re basically what they were before they got buffed.

we didn’t have air-fire and uber celestial back then.

something needs to be done: either air-fire nerf or strenght runes disappearing.

Celestial is strong because of strength runes. Nerf strength and celestial becomes worthless again.

Nope, celestial is strong cuz it gives about 400 more overall stats than other amulets.

Celestial is strong cuz every profession can now stack might sigil thanks to “double sigil patch” along with any other thing they used to equip in the past.

And, moreover, might runes 6th bonus has never worked pre-patch so nobody cared about dem runes, even HGH engies used to mix multiple might stacking sets instead of carrying the whole one.

results?

everything totally broken.

Fix plox.

tichorum.2415:

Mrbig.8019:

Not enough.

these runes should be deleted.

They’re basically what they were before they got buffed.

we didn’t have air-fire and uber celestial back then.

something needs to be done: either air-fire nerf or strenght runes disappearing.

Not enough.

these runes should be deleted.

Leeto.1570:

Ban all other races, they`re too big.
I know many of you want perfect TOL where everyone is human female with flower in their blue/pink hair but its not gonna happen. Buy glasses/bigger monitor.

Asuras have many animation issues, we all know it and it’s been confirmed. Don’t pretend there is no problem just cuz you don’t want to have your cute asura banned.

only from ToL ?

Why not from every PvP environment ?

Being high ranked in solo q shouldn’t mean nor that i can have 4 kittens and carry them to an undeserved ( for them) victory neither that i know how to abuse not permanent decay and afk at its best.

Being high ranked in solo q should mean i’ll face skilled opponent both in mine and my opponents team, having, consequently, good satisfying matches.

fix your kitten.

Phaeton.9582:

Josh Davis.6015:

I’m hype.

Will s/d be fixed by then? Sorry to bring up balance, but it’s as inhibiting as spirits/hambow was last year.

Will you been taking feedback from competitive players on balance leading up to the tournament?

More than this, i would say rune of strenght and double air/fire.

Current S/D thief build is like the most broken thing this game ever had, but it’a ll due to runes and sigils.

Whose are broken even for other professions.

Confirmed it happens even when you don’t have the trait that allows spirits to move.

So well…

wow, another “full Asura” tournie.

So fun to see such cute little kittens competing against each other

Lost all of them cuz i suck at cheese.

Why can’t you remove this kittening useless map ?

anything else i would add would be futile

ofc i lost all of them cuz i don’t want to cheese.

Why is this map still in the rotation ?

DaliIndica.9041:

Mrbig.8019:

DaliIndica.9041:

Black Teagan.9215:

@DaliIndica
Do you mean me?

Yes, you as in its a waste of your time trying to talk sense, which you are trying to do.

Perma vig is all the thief rage and no one can deny only the thief can get it.

I would ask someone to post a build in which thief can get perma vigor, but I suspect people will avoid it or try to talk up some other aspect.

Here is engie perma vigor, no one moaning about that?

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-V70;4Vp0;9;9;19-T;22;30-C;9;68p

Thats not even using all my stuff, you would pretty much get nearly 100% uptime on vigor.

6/15 = 1/3 ( +/-)

10/21(20)= 1/2

If you do the math you’ll understand acro-trickery thieves have 5/6 vigor uptime, or rather 50 secs of vigor over a minute.

This without accounting feline grace.

Currently it far exceeds other classes vigor capabilities, aside eles ( renewing stamina still broken).

It seems you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

Even on your “perma vigor” engie build you would have

6/10
3/15

24/30= 4/5, or rather still less then acro-trickery thief.

And nobody picks the boon turret trait.

I mean, it’s not even rocket science, i’m sure people do this in primary school

I knew someone would take the bait.

First off, saying no one takes that engie trait is wrong, as some people do take it as its pretty nice. But lets say that at top level it doesnt get picked up. Nor does trickery builds either.

You moaners are so easy to goad into utter nonsense, you always want everything to be static and exactly how it shows your opinion, but anything outside of that (like the actual game) then oh no lets get rid.

No decent thief is going to give up extra damage or a far weaker steal just so they can dodge about. I honestly think you are sitting in hotjoin and soloQ and sometimes run into one, and they beat you. Sometimes it goes like that, you need to just get over it.

But please, put some more “facts” up whilst any time some points out other builds having the same or higher level of things is just not workable. You cannot have it all ways, pick a spec and debate that.

But I suspect you will try to wiggle out of it as you have no clue what you are talking about and if I am some primary school kid your the dunce sat in the corner.

lawl what is this guy even saying

DaliIndica.9041:

Black Teagan.9215:

@DaliIndica
Do you mean me?

Yes, you as in its a waste of your time trying to talk sense, which you are trying to do.

Perma vig is all the thief rage and no one can deny only the thief can get it.

I would ask someone to post a build in which thief can get perma vigor, but I suspect people will avoid it or try to talk up some other aspect.

Here is engie perma vigor, no one moaning about that?

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-V70;4Vp0;9;9;19-T;22;30-C;9;68p

Thats not even using all my stuff, you would pretty much get nearly 100% uptime on vigor.

6/15 = 1/3 ( +/-)

10/21(20)= 1/2

If you do the math you’ll understand acro-trickery thieves have 5/6 vigor uptime, or rather 50 secs of vigor over a minute.

This without accounting feline grace.

Currently it far exceeds other classes vigor capabilities, aside eles ( renewing stamina still broken).

It seems you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

Even on your “perma vigor” engie build you would have

6/10
3/15

24/30= 4/5, or rather still less then acro-trickery thief.

And nobody picks the boon turret trait.

I mean, it’s not even rocket science, i’m sure people do this in primary school

4vs5 on skyhammer in solo q.

BEST MOMENT EVA.

Op point is not about the game being unfun but mostly about not having players to form teams and tryhard enough to overcome the meta, that is settled on the easiest faceroll professions ( semi- bunkers with high dmg output, acro-trickery S/D thieves, turret engies).

No one wishes to develop a better meta or a “counter” because no one is interested in tryharding enough to do so, and often you end up against worse teams with the right comp and lose badly.

This goes back to the thing there’s nothing to play for: without incentives there’s no reason to tryhard.

We need incentives

laquito.5269:

Mrbig.8019:

Ofc they don’t for people afking at high rating like you do.

You’re the clear example of the people who has no clue about the game.

If you think being in top 100 thx to not permanent decay while playing one match every week means you’re good you’re clearly wrong.

And like many know, i go SOLO in team q, playing every day. Just saying.

and if you’re going to tell me people like Rom, Tage, Fraelina, Blackjack etc. etc. and all the following with their 4k + tournies, playing everyday and being on top, are not better than you, afking at high rank, then there’s indeed something wrong with you.

You realize you’re contradicting yourself? First you say that Leaderboards are a skill determiner and now you claim it is not, cuz I managed to be high ranked by playing a lot less than you do.?

I won this discussion either way, you just made a fool out of yourself. I don’t even think you would’ve realized how the Leaderboards work until I pointed it out for you.

Never claimed to be better than any of those, I even didn’t say a word about my own perception, but it’s okay, go back to playing in your “pro” top 250 sphere.

I don’t know how leaderboards work ? LAWL i made tons of threads about how broken leaderboards are.

Point is i don’t care, i like to play and will do so, facing all the odds i will.

I totally disregard afkers opinion since they’ve no clue about this game: if you play once in a week afking at high rank you can end up against a top team which will 500-0 you and your rank will still go up, so you can afk again ( which is exactly what you do).

Leaderboards can be a skill determiner if you play costantly: they can’t be if you abuse the broken system in order to stay on top with few games.

End of the story.

laquito.5269:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They don’t mean much. But anyone not in the top 100 of solo or team queue cannot be competent at the game. Therefore a forum for the top 100 people to decide on balance without interference would be a good idea.

What? lol, no it isn’t. Leaderboards are broken and don’t resemble a players skill or competence. They never did, still don’t and probably never will. How is this a good idea if some total “newbie” is gained access to a game deciding sphere, because he managed to luck out in soloQ and made it to top 50, while having played only ~20 matches? It is beyond me, how you can even slightly think this would be a good idea. SoloQ is rolling dices and teamQ is idling once you reached top 100.

You’re currently punished for playing too much and rewarded for playing once or twice a week (even less in teamQ).

Ofc they don’t for people afking at high rating like you do.

You’re the clear example of the people who has no clue about the game.

If you think being in top 100 thx to not permanent decay while playing one match every week means you’re good you’re clearly wrong.

And like many know, i go SOLO in team q, playing every day. Just saying.

and if you’re going to tell me people like Rom, Tage, Fraelina, Blackjack etc. etc. and all the following with their 4k + tournies, playing everyday and being on top, are not better than you, afking at high rank, then there’s indeed something wrong with you.

laquito.5269:

Mrbig.8019:

I kinda doubt you even know any “top player” or even played at decent level, but i don’t really want to go checkin leaderboards in order to avoid the common " LAWL LADDERBOARDZ MEAN NOTHING YO SCRUB" arguments.

Don’t act like a baller, when ur low ranked yourself. Leaderboards indeed say little about one’s individual skill, and this is coming from someone, who is ranked way higher than you.

You’re not even specifiing who said what, nor do you provide evidence to backup your claim. It’s not like they add any more credibility to your post. :’)

ok checkin….

nope couldn’t find you.

Go searchin for my name if you care, as you said leaderboards really mean little ASIDE THE FACT you play against the best players with the best comps so at least you can talk to them or have an idea about what is good and what isn’t.

http://www.gw2score.com/PvP is your friend.

It really makes me baffle how vocal nabs are in this forum mostly knowing nothing about the game. like they did in Yilvina thread about the ranger.

sinject.4607:

the amount of ignorance on this board is amazing. i really wish s/d was as strong of a build as you people make it out to be.

Mrbig.8019:

Omg you really don’t get the point of the word “cheese” do you ?

Current S/D thief build has

perma vigor

feline grace

evades from flanking strike

boon steal from steal prioritizing stability and aegis

increased ini regen after ini buff patch

15 initiative

very strong damage

Better than average condi removal ( passive full damaging condi cleanse every 30 secs)

Thieves shouldn’t be able to have all these stuff.

S/P was balanced because it didn’t really have survivability, if you failed you were dead.

Thief is by far the strongest profession in game right now, and the hardest to counter: in fact you can’t counter a thief unless you have a thief yourself, and this statement has never been more valid than now.

you either are a REALLY terrible player or don’t actually even play PvP because no veteran would ever say that that thief is the strongest profession in the game.

you even had said before in a post that S/P was the strongest thief build in the game, and seeing how almost nothing has changed since then i think you’re tailoring your opinions to attack whatever is the current meta.

also in general, your “argument” is incredibly weak, all you did was list characteristics of s/d and without explanation call them overpowered. you’re either ignorant or trying to embellish these things to fluff up your argument.

Actually all top players agree that current S/D thief build is the dumbest thing this game ever had.

I kinda doubt you even know any “top player” or even played at decent level, but i don’t really want to go checkin leaderboards in order to avoid the common " LAWL LADDERBOARDZ MEAN NOTHING YO SCRUB" arguments.

S/P being the strongest build in the last meta means kitten about it being counterable or not.

Not really going to argue with you anymore anyway, wasted time.

Ant.3415:

There are people who want to pvp and shouldnt require kitten rewards to do so. Then there are farmers, those who will grind endlessly even for the mediocre rewards even PVE gives you. All you get is a bunch of useless gear that you turn into mats. There is no actual items to farm for, unless you want to craft a legendary or ascended.

it’s no about rewards, it’s about INCENTIVES.

We don’t have a league while PvE-WvW do, this is ridicolous.

What’s the point of forming a team if no one knows you’re a team thx to our totally messed up leaderboards ?

What’s the point of playing against equally skilled players if 1 win in top 100 rewards the same of a win in the percentiles ?

These things drive away competitive players from this game, or even does ones who want to just become better.

It’s time to fix this kitten.

laquito.5269:

Mrbig.8019:

Ways to fix them ?

There’s nothing to fix, this S/D build should never exist in the first place.

You want to fix the build ?

Remove air/fire proc and nerf strenght runes inot oblivion.

You just fixed not only S/D thief but also celestial ele ridicolous damage.

Problem solved.

Thank you, thats all I wanted to point out. People just don’t realize that it’s the Sigil/Rune Update that makes Thief, along with the other build, so powerful. Therefore any whine concerning S/D is kitten and pure hatred towards the class.

FeelsAlright.5860:

It’s a seperate issue. Even before the double procs trickery was an issue. I was tlaking about the vigour uptime. I’ll edit my post so there’s a line break between the sentences to make it easier to understand for you.

Indeed, you should. I agree insofar that trickery atm is too good to not take, but it also indicates that other trees (specifically DA, SA and to some lesser extent CS) are severly lacking.

Still my point stands. You don’t Nerf Y, because X is overpowered, thats bad balancing.

Omg you really don’t get the point of the word “cheese” do you ?

Current S/D thief build has

perma vigor

feline grace

evades from flanking strike

boon steal from steal prioritizing stability and aegis

increased ini regen after ini buff patch

15 initiative

very strong damage

Better than average condi removal ( passive full damaging condi cleanse every 30 secs)

Thieves shouldn’t be able to have all these stuff.

S/P was balanced because it didn’t really have survivability, if you failed you were dead.

More than anything, thieves shouldn’t have this kind of damage without investing points into Critical strikes, cause acrobatic and trickery combined are totally broken.

Thief is by far the strongest profession in game right now, and the hardest to counter: in fact you can’t counter a thief unless you have a thief yourself, and this statement has never been more valid than now.

laquito.5269:

Mrbig.8019:

because thanks to sigil/runes buffs now teefs can build up all the cheese they have ( S/D evades, acro evades, daze on steal, perma vigor even after vigor nerf thanks to both vigorous recovery AND bountiful theft) in a single package while keeping high damage that before them wasn’t possible to achieve, making it the STRONGEST profession in game by far.

S/P was never Op in the first place, it was coutnerable and needed quite decent skill to be used effectively.

Now literally EVERY NAB can build his 2-0-0-6-6 teef and be a threat even greater than wars.

The problem is about thieves since they have the most broken mechanics in game: paired with sigils buffs they can just pack them in one package and faceroll.

Signed

Thief main.

Congratulations, you just proved my statement concerning the mentality of this forum. All I read is random whine about things being cheesy and overpowered without pointing out ways on how to fix them. I’m not sure if I can take you serious for stating S/P took more skill than S/D does. S/P meta was incredibly cheesy and faceroll. All you needed to do is port a bit and spam 3 while using shadowsteps to deliver your damage, all while being invul up to 75% of the time in melee range, it was a total nobrainer.

Sounds more like some of you don’t want to adapt to the new (Thief) meta. Nearly every class can go full defense/utility and still dish out amazing damage, this isn’t exclusive to thief. (Hi Hambow, D/D Ele, SotF Ranger etc.)

Hypocrites, hypocrites everywhere.

Ways to fix them ?

There’s nothing to fix, this S/D build should never exist in the first place.

You want to fix the build ?

Remove air/fire proc and nerf strenght runes inot oblivion.

You just fixed not only S/D thief but also celestial ele ridicolous damage.

Problem solved.

laquito.5269:

Leeto.1570:

laquito.5269:

Another whiny player. If I’ve learned one thing from these forums, it’s that thief – no matter what build currently is meta - will always be considered OP. It’s ridiculous.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Because thief no matter what spec or how weak in overall it is, have lots of broken and overpowered mechanics.
And as most of thief players are teen ninjas they have problems with critical thinking.
+other players cant even come with suggestions to solve these problems and improve thief overall cause then there comes this army of thiefs defending their class with some absurd offtopic arguments.

The behavior of non thief players complaining about thieves doesn’t promote critical thinking in first place, because they usually come up with arguments that are either not relevant to the strenght of said build, or , which is more often the case, whine about >class mechanics<.

Most of these posts are written by selfish, raging kids, whose intention isn’t even to improve or shape thief as a class, but merely to get them nerfed, because they’re unable or unwilling to adapt.

You’re sounding like ANet doesn’t ever touch thief specs, although we’re the class that probably gets shaped the most, based on whine posts like these. I don’t quite understand how you fail to see the pattern that is brought upon the class by these whine posts:
D/D Burst too strong —> Signet; Mug, CnD nerfed
S/D/Larcenous too strong --> Ini cost upped, Boonsteal reduced (Lyssa nerfed)
S/P overpowered —> Ini upped

Some of these nerfs were indeed necessary, but now you’re whining about something that has already been nerfed across the board. Thief sacrifices TWO traits for “perma” vigor, whereas other classes can easily have a high vigor uptime with one or nill.

Actually the only reason S/D Acro/Trick works is because of the Sigils (and Runes to a lesser extent) that offer enough damage to make up for CS, but this is a general “problem” (If u may say so), and now I ask you again: Why the kitten did OP explicitly state thieves in the topic, whereas the root problem holds truth for every class?

because thanks to sigil/runes buffs now teefs can build up all the cheese they have ( S/D evades, acro evades, daze on steal, perma vigor even after vigor nerf thanks to both vigorous recovery AND bountiful theft) in a single package while keeping high damage that before them wasn’t possible to achieve, making it the STRONGEST profession in game by far.

S/P was never Op in the first place, it was coutnerable and needed quite decent skill to be used effectively.

Now literally EVERY NAB can build his 2-0-0-6-6 teef and be a threat even greater than wars.

The problem is about thieves since they have the most broken mechanics in game: paired with sigils buffs they can just pack them in one package and faceroll.

Signed

Thief main.

Absent Minded.5821:

I think they just need to add more to PvP. The April 15th patch really only added a few QoL changes and some minor re balancing yet it seemed to spark the PvP community alive for a short time at least. Guild Wars 1 had so many different options for PvP. Here we have conquest and WvW. Don’t get me wrong WvW is incredible but after tens of thousands of kills… you just need something else. Same for conquest. Something needs to be done to break up the monotony. Right now I’m content with rolling different classes and getting good with them in PvP but I’m running out of classes.

Incentives have nothing to do with the game mode.

What this game needs are INCENTIVES to stay at the top, something we currently don’t have.

A win rewards the same, doesn’t matter if you’re top 100 or oblivion %.

Decay is not permanent, so a guy can afk at top, go down then be at top again with a single match.

Team leaderboards don’t care about your team, since it’s personal.

so we NEED ASAP in order to incentivize people:

1. Different rewards appropriate to the level you’re playing ( rewards increasing as your rank increase, and there should be A HUGE DIFFERENCE between rating tiers)

2. Permanent, but slower, decay

3. Team leaderboards ( like, for example, old WoW 5vs5, 3vs3, 2vs2 arena)

4. Ingame leaderboards.

5. Seasons and leagues

Period.

why should people form a team ?

Winning a top 100 match and a % match rewards the same,

you can afk for weeks than playing 1 match and be top 10,

you don’t get anything better from fighting an even opponent than facerolling PvErs pug groups at late night.

Gimme a reason to play and/or form a team.

Gimme.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The development has clearly no idea what to do with this game. Also they refuse to cooperate with the community and especially with ppl that have an idea about the game. Otherwise they wouldn’t move in a circle for 2 years . . .

The first sentence is the real, sad truth.

This game has no direction, neither developers have any idea what to do with the game.

It would be so easy to implement better rewards according to lb position, team rating instead of personal one ( like in WoW, 2006 wise technology) or just one of GW1 game modes.

Yet they’re not doing so, clearly because they’ve no idea what they should do or shouldn’t.

This game is such a waste of potential that it makes me want to uninstall everytime i play.

it could have been worse.

It could have been Skyhammer.

No point in competing, forming a team, playing against better players cuz the reward system doesn’t care if you’re top 100 team/solo q or in the %.

Winning rewards the same in both situations.

You can’t even have any visibility as a team, cuz leaderaboards are personal, matchmaking is horrible ( to the point that even being top 100 mostly means you’re farming pugs in odd hours) and due to this nobody cares about the only decent “competitive wannabe” thing this game has ( ESL weekly, the only resemblance of a league).

Just stating a fact, from a competitive pov this game has never been worse than now, “PvP patch” just made it even more for PvErs.

The game is collapsing.

Sort this kitten out.

Hello, pls don’t forget me

Evocatus Rex.6857:

There are some classes/builds which are strong 1v1, but it doesn’t matter so much because there aren’t that many forced 1v1s in the game.

WAT.

More on topic, wholeheartedly agree but at the same time we also need to reduce war point presence cuz it really means kitten to have 4% crit chance when your auto deals 2k-2.5kblank damage due to 1278123598175 might stacks.

Just sayin

Ostricheggs.3742:

Larynx.2453:

Aberrant.6749:

Flumek.9043:

Liewec.2896:

meanwhile warriors are spamming perma aoe burning and causing burning with every auto attack.

suddenly one 4 second burn to a single target on a 10 second cooldown seems trivial.

cough… 7s ….. cough

Even with 30 in power + runes of balth on the eng it’s still in the war’s favor…

Hambow also isn’t known for being a condi build.

which is funny because hambows do nearly equivalent burning damage with a 100% burning uptime when fighting on point. Whenever I die with a hambow around the top damage is always burning, usually over 10k.

Anyways, you need to work around incendiary powder. I very rarely see a player actively take into consideration what the trait implies.

I will admit that balthazar is a joke and incredibly broken. I was the first to say so. Incendiary is hardly broken, however. It’s also one of the better designed passives given its short CD and requirement of the player to keep in mind the timing to avoid proccing it on random bullkitten in teamfights.

These are consideration that you make as an engi or rather " what should i do to avoid IP to proc on random kitten".

From your opponent pov there’s literally no counterplay involved.

Talking about wars, even the most broken thing (zerk stance) has counterplay: IP has no counterplay.

Anet did a nice job on other passive kittens like sun spirit and dumbfire, IP should be next.

I know very well engies are not on par even with broken balthazar, still passive crap like IP is not the answer.