Guild Wars 2

Ario.8964:

In a pvp perspective, the SA buffs are not going to be a problem at all (cause you know you posted in the pvp forum so you should be thinking about pvp). If a thief takes SA he is going to screw his team over because he won’t be able to cap points effectively as he will constantly be losing caps he’s trying to defend because he’s trying to spam stealth. Only place these changes will actually have any effect on is wvw roaming (in which case this will have a large effect) but that’s for a different forum section.

Nothing to see here, just people complaining about things they don’t understand.

Current panic strike thief is 6-0-2-0-6.

Panic strike thief is one of the strongest meta builds currently.

After HoT, current meta build will have more ini, more regen, less damage while stealthed, more damage ( executioner).

Sir, you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

I press “log in”, then “play” and nothing happens.

I can’t play, fix plox

Instead of nerfing one of the most broken, RNG, passive builds of the game u skyrocket buff it to oblivion by making panic strike thief even able to gain ini, regen and GET LESS DAMAGE while stealthed.

With the leitmotiv shifting from capture points ( where panic strike thief is already OP) to kill the lord, Panic strike thief will become a totally OP joke unless specialization is even more OP.

Zero sense, really.

Oh god pls make air anyhow more worthy than blood pls

Azure The Heartless.3261:

No pity for someone that lets a fire-air combo hit them on both weapon sets without doing something.

There’s no way to avoid air-fire.

What u said makes literally 0 sense

glock.6590:

There is nothing wrong with passive procs unless you just started playing. You know that a power necro can one shot you if you’re close to 50% HP, why hanging around the necro and then cry about spinal shivers if you knew it was gonna happen?

Same goes for panic strike thief, you need to be prepared to have a condi clear or defensive utility off CD if there’s a thief porting to you and you’re low on hp.

If everything had counter play was predictable and had a cast time , it would be super lame. And who ever has the most dodges would win. Just think about fighting a hammer warrior . All u need is maximum amount of dodges to beat it since its extremely telegraphed and predictable.

Without any passive or insta cast dmg, S/D thieves would be the most cancerous thing in the game. Because there would be no way to land damage on some1 that has 70% evade uptime.

without air/fire, trickery acro S/D would deal minmal damage and pose 0 threat.

just saying

Panic strike D/P is one of the most cancerous and annoying things in the game, even more when played with Blinding Powder.

In a team evnironmente is basically like hammer medi guard: while one is 1111111111111111→ 50% →switch hammer→ PROCZ,

the other one is stealth→bow→stealth→ bow→stealth→50%→ PROCZ

And don’t even get me started on random Impro procs recharging all utilities.

The build needs to go, or changed dramatically.

Supreme.3164:

Thought you were gone, been a while since your last thread! vacation? It surely got boring around here without you and @Lordrosicky

Ye i was gone now i’m in 1vs1 server and beach alone is so full of bugs it makes me sick, i don’t even wanna imagine the rest dear god.

Fixerino pls

It’s still there, stronger than ever.

Fixerino plz

MithranArkanere.8957:

The problem with making them actual teleports is that people could get into an enclosed location and get out without problems. Like getting inside a room that gets closed after you enter.

just code the room differently then.

seriously this has to stop

Ok can we please make “port back” abilities actual teleports instead of measly bugged shadowsteps ?

Nothing worse than wasting a 40 secs CD like wurm to stay still and get rekt simply because a rock was in your path ( sometimes there’s not even a rock, it’s just plain silly)

Fixerino pls.

It has been quite a long time this is happening.

What about fixing your servers ?

the best part is when u dodge cancel your already casted stolen skill.

this game gets worse everyday

Automated tournaments.

asap.

stop this ladderboard joke, it’s noy funny anymore

Nah, too smart of a thing for gw2 devs.

Why should u do something that was so succesful in gw instead of reinventing the wheel ( and fail) ?

Acrisor.8097:

You must play PvP. You have to play PvP.
If you do not play PvP, you will end up without a girlfriend, just like this guy

y u no look at ma signature

silvermember.8941:

Mrbig.8019:

And no don’t say fun.

Proc Wars 2 is definitely not fun

If you are not having fun, then quit. With the amount of QQ that comes from you, I would say quitting is the best thing you can do for yourself, but that would be me assuming I know what goes through your mind.

There is no reason to do anything other than to eat, sleep, drink water and poop.

Rofl i’ve already quit.

I’m just asking why do people continue to play this game ( PvP) since

no skill progression ( no tiers, terrible matches vs randoms instead of players of your skill level)

joke leaderboard

no competition

terrible meta

cheese gameplay based on unavoidable things such instant skills and procs/weap swap

ridicolous power creep

I’m seriously just asking.

And, anyway, it’s been like 2 weeks from my last post so i dunno where is this “qq” you’re talking about coming from.

And no don’t say fun.

Proc Wars 2 is definitely not fun

silvermember.8941:

Mrbig.8019:

Chaith.8256:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Everyone hates slick shoes. it is pretty much universal at this point.

My suggestion to nerf it is to remove the break stun off the toolbelt skills.

I think this is only fair seen as if you want to take such an OP 100-0 damage/cc skill then you should have to give up some survivability.

Thoughts?

Your suggestion would be effective if Engineers would still use Slick Shoes, and live with the lower survivability. But that underlying assumption is really not how it would work, I’ll explain:

Engineers (every profession?) are 100% unviable without a Stunbreak. No meta PvP build in the history of GW2 to my knowledge has endured the test of time without Stunbreaks. Slick Shoes could not exist where a Stunbreak should be, just as it was if we examine Engi builds of the past.

In the Engineer build creation process, your change would simply put Slick Shoes out of the ‘Stunbreak’ slot, and compete with a secondary kit. Exactly like Rocket Boots, Throw Mine, and Personal Battering Ram currently are (they’re all worse than Tool Kit or another secondary, and thus, junk). As good as Slick Shoes are, the Engineer would be forced to take another Stunbreak, and then drop a kit to put Slick Shoes back in.

Right now, running Slick Shoes all the time in PvP is a poor decision. Immobilize comps, DPS Guardians, and Entangle Rangers demands Elixir S be taken. The ‘Stunbreak metagame’ Engineers have is fairly balanced, with Slick Shoes and Elixir S being A Tier, E-Gun being B Tier, and Goggles and Thumper Turret being niche/troll.

In light of the Stability boon changes especially, a more practical way to nerf Slick Shoes would be to change how the utility spawns oil slicks. Perhaps reduce the number of puddles spawned, in perhaps a way that makes more Stunbreaks save the user from repeatedly getting knocked down.

Hope that helps put it in perspective, from an Engi player

When power creep ( and outgoing damage) wasn’t so ridicolous, there were clearly engi builds without stunbreak.

Nade-bomb-toolkit and nades-tool-rocket boots were a choice.

Don’t forget w/o the power creep we would still be in the bunker era. I wonder which is better.

bunker era

where u had to hard ress ( instead of random spam dead body with poison and damage),

where u had to hard burst ( instead of random AoE spam),

where u had to actually rotate your bunker to the team fight ( instead of sending your 1vs1 cele hero on every point holding people 1vs2 long enough to let the rest of your team to snowball)

where passive was minimal ( air-fire, geo-doom etc, not even trickery steal existed).

yes please.

Chaith.8256:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Everyone hates slick shoes. it is pretty much universal at this point.

My suggestion to nerf it is to remove the break stun off the toolbelt skills.

I think this is only fair seen as if you want to take such an OP 100-0 damage/cc skill then you should have to give up some survivability.

Thoughts?

Your suggestion would be effective if Engineers would still use Slick Shoes, and live with the lower survivability. But that underlying assumption is really not how it would work, I’ll explain:

Engineers (every profession?) are 100% unviable without a Stunbreak. No meta PvP build in the history of GW2 to my knowledge has endured the test of time without Stunbreaks. Slick Shoes could not exist where a Stunbreak should be, just as it was if we examine Engi builds of the past.

In the Engineer build creation process, your change would simply put Slick Shoes out of the ‘Stunbreak’ slot, and compete with a secondary kit. Exactly like Rocket Boots, Throw Mine, and Personal Battering Ram currently are (they’re all worse than Tool Kit or another secondary, and thus, junk). As good as Slick Shoes are, the Engineer would be forced to take another Stunbreak, and then drop a kit to put Slick Shoes back in.

Right now, running Slick Shoes all the time in PvP is a poor decision. Immobilize comps, DPS Guardians, and Entangle Rangers demands Elixir S be taken. The ‘Stunbreak metagame’ Engineers have is fairly balanced, with Slick Shoes and Elixir S being A Tier, E-Gun being B Tier, and Goggles and Thumper Turret being niche/troll.

In light of the Stability boon changes especially, a more practical way to nerf Slick Shoes would be to change how the utility spawns oil slicks. Perhaps reduce the number of puddles spawned, in perhaps a way that makes more Stunbreaks save the user from repeatedly getting knocked down.

Hope that helps put it in perspective, from an Engi player

When power creep ( and outgoing damage) wasn’t so ridicolous, there were clearly engi builds without stunbreak.

Nade-bomb-toolkit and nades-tool-rocket boots were a choice.

Blimm.5028:

In beta the game was simply absurdly fast paced, which was why I loved it so much. EVERY clkitten (edit: seriously, a-net?) hat something to just instagib people who were not on their toes. However you could counterplay all of that (ok, backstab thief WAS broken outside of 1v1 due to the hit coming from stealth… still..).
Best state of balance was before the dhuumfire patch. Revert to that and I might even consider going competitive (if I can get my mechanics back to par).
After dhuumfire everything went down hill.

TLDR: Pre dhuumfire/spirit patch balance plz.

This.

Aside thief burst, nothing was really OP.

People were actually complaining about clutch play abilities like time warp, portal and IoL instead of sigils and celestial ( at least at high level, not scrub level where people were complaining , and actually still complain, about frenzy warriors).

How could this game go so much downhill is beyond me.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Its funny because people have been saying this phrase “the last chance left” for about 2 years now

Even though I don’t agree with many of the changes ANet is making, I do see reason behind most of them and why they are doing it. Also its their game, not yours. They get the say in how their competitive scene looks like, not you.

When the game launched some 2.5 years ago everybody was spamming greatsword frenzy warriors.

Do not turn blind eye on what they’ve achieved so far. Don’t be that naive.

My advice … learn to be flexible. Gw2, as all other MMOs is “work in progress”. Strong classes today will be afterthought tomorrow because of some balance patch. Learn to adapt or you’ll always be miserable.

Frenzy warriors had counterplay: dodge, stunbreak, block, whatever.

Air-fire, geo-doom and all the passive kitten have ZERO counter play.

Maybe the game somehow feels more balanced right now, but passive procs are TERRIBLE for game health.

That’s why nobody plays pvp right now, and why people quit

Zirith.6429:

what was the point of op’s video?

Showing everything that is wrong with the game.

Someone getting downed by passive procs (air-fire-chill of death).

Total joke.

Sorel.4870:

brannigan.9831:

Fix what’s wrong as soon as possible that should always be the thought process.

Agreed, but it’s hard to have an agreement on “what’s wrong”. Think about Supreme who still thinks thieves are the most OP profession in the game because of stealth, or Lordrosicky who only ever played necro and have no idea on how other professions work. Some players will always want the game to be balanced around their own preferences and aspirations (some prefer one-shot fights, some prefer longer skirmishes, some like insta-cast skills, some others prefer long cast, big numbers skills), and your overall reasonable argument doesn’t work in practice: every balance change you see an equal amount of QQ and screams of joy.

Tbh i don’t really care, i just want the game to be built around active play and not passives.

may it be steal ( most broken instant skill ever), may it be air-fire / geo-doom/ whateverpassiveproc or even scepter ele burst.

People crying about perma stealth in an objective based game ( may it be conquest or lord kill) should just take a long, deep breath and get gud.

Cuz your objective is to capture/kill lord, not to kill a guy who’s HIDING FROM YOU.

If u want to kill someone go to the 1vs1 server.

or get gud.

Aomine.5012:

Stop pretend you’ve been in GW2 long enough,

Everyone who play since beta knows how imbalance the game was at launch. Thief and Warrior is doing like 5 times more damage than now. (100B quickness, thief quickness + 50% dm buff on a signet one shot people). Ranger quickness swap on beastmaster 5 (instant 25 stack of bleed). Ranger’s pet f2 hitting 10k. It is way more imba than you can ever imagined.

Ah… Good memories. YES , I want old time back! More imba! More power!

The only broken thing was thief instagib from stealth due to rendering.

If you ever got killed by a 100b war then i would suggest you to get better.

Are u really comparing beastmaster ranger, a build that would currently lose even to a mesmer, to things like cele ele, cele engi or shoutbow ?

Dear god is this really the level of gw2 average player/forum user ?

Sorel.4870:

Mrbig.8019:

nerf celestial, nerf proc/swap sigils, nerf instant CRAP so this game can be balanced as it was at the beginning.

Ok dude, enjoy your Quickness HB warriors, your Quickness 22222222 thieves, your SB thieves doing more damage at range than most classes in melee, all that good stuff.

best post guinea bissau

Edit:

bolded cuz serious

….to rebuild this game from scratches.

nerf celestial, nerf proc/swap sigils, nerf instant CRAP so this game can be balanced as it was at the beginning.

Is this what you want for your game?

The game has been like this for ages: Air/fire thief-mes, passive fears, geo-doom, hammer guard, incendiary powder and many, MANY more.

The game feels utterly random, professions building as tanky as possible and blasting their own fields multiple times to go up to 25 might stacks and other crap.

Start all over again.

it’s the expansion, it’s a nice excuse to throw all last 8-12 months balance changes beyond the window and start all over again.

Pls.

William C.6195:

Mrbig.8019:

Impact.2780:

So, using wikipedia.

bla bla bla

Dear good do u really think anyone’s gonna read dat wall of text.

Doesn’t read the post. Still argues. Logic.

Let me condense that terribly long paragraph of text for you:

Impact is right. The mid-dodge roll hit bug is primarily caused by latency. Whether not the latency is caused on a server or client side is a different matter entirely.

The rubber-banding and ‘unstompable’ player bugs are caused by desyncing of the client and server which is caused by the interaction of latency and positional extrapolation.

Hopefully that makes clearer.

The only thing I can think of to combat this is to increase the time within the animation that allows a dodge, so that, theoretically, you’re giving the server and client longer to communicate and decide on what actually happened. This is basically what was being suggest with the whole ‘animation frames’ thing.

It’s not exactly a proper fix… It won’t reduce latency. But it might improve the player experience when dealing with high latency.

You got it yet you still say he’s right roflmao

there’s a big difference in these 2 scenarios.

In client side issues you know you’re lagging, while during desyncs the game on YOUR part seems flawless BUT the server disagrees, cuz it thinks your doing something else.

Basically one can be prevented, the other one is totally random for the player.

way worse cuz trickier and could happen in any major tournament and players ( and casters) may not even realize it

Impact.2780:

So, using wikipedia.

bla bla bla

Dear good do u really think anyone’s gonna read dat wall of text.

Dude u really don’t understand, i’ll try to break it up for you.

Normal process

- Input= dodge press

Data processed

- Server output= endurance deplated

Client server lag

- input= dodge press

trololol LAG

data processed

- Serve output= endurance depleted

Desyncs

- Input= dodge press

data processing →trolololol LAG

- server output = endurance depleted

Eyia Hellhide.7320:

Mrbig.8019:

Impact.2780:

It’s nothing like shooting up in the air. That’s a problem in the code, not communication timings. I’ll happily debate this with you, but I’m not going to part-take in:
- “again, yes it is”
- “again, no it isn’t”
- “is”
- “isn’t”
- etc.

I’m not going to debate anything.

You simply don’t have the knowledge to understand this it seems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latency_

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag#Client-side

Now this is funny. So, you’re arguing with a programmer, telling him he knows nothing, and you’re using as a source of your knowledge… wikipedia?

It’s just like if you go to a doctor, because you have a headache, and after examination he tells you “you have neuralgia”. And then you start to shout: “Of course it’s not neuralgia, it’s a brain tumor, don’t you read wikipedia idiot, all the symptoms are there…”

He may be a programmer, doesn’t change the fact that the issue is not related with latency at all, not client side at least.

as someone else said, this issur is even more present in WvW where servers hardly keep up with your positioning due to massive amount of data input.

it’s not that hard to understand it’s server-side problem, even more if you’re a “programmer”.

Moreover 20ms (my standard connection, aside random server lag by aNet fault) give 0 desync issue even in first person shooters.

I don’t even know why we’re still arguing tbh.

Impact.2780:

It’s nothing like shooting up in the air. That’s a problem in the code, not communication timings. I’ll happily debate this with you, but I’m not going to part-take in:
- “again, yes it is”
- “again, no it isn’t”
- “is”
- “isn’t”
- etc.

I’m not going to debate anything.

You simply don’t have the knowledge to understand this it seems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latency_

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag#Client-side

Basically, with a 20 ms latency ( if u have more i would suggest to not play online games at all) the “exit” loop is totally synced with the server output, ending with an immediate command.

If server data processing is slow, it ends with small delays called “desyncs”, something totally different from experienced latency.

Client Lag= your ms is high, the data you send takes unnecessary jumps and ARRIVES too late to the server, which, however, sends it back almost instantly

Desync= your ms is normal, the data you send goes straight into the server BUT it will send it back with a small delay, due to various reasons ( bad gateways, too many people sending data from the same place, mostly to german servers etc. etc.).

Server side lag= the worst possible desync scenario. Crashes, huge lag for all people playing in that server, disconnects.

This problem has been here for AGES and it goes back and forth with some patches.

Basically aNet servers suck balls.

Impact.2780:

Of course it’s latency. Even if you’re not lagging, it still takes time to communicate with the server. That time frame is where the issue can present itself, and is precisely why it happens at the start of a dodge, and not toward the end. Effects that are triggered on dodge still trigger because you still dodged. You just got hit within the window in which the server did not know you were dodging.

Again, the phenomena you’re describing is not latency.

it’s server desyncing.

it’s the same thing happening when u magnet pull and people skyrocket into space.

it’s a bad server issue by anet.

they’re TOTALLY not the same thing

Impact.2780:

Aye, normally you’d press a command, it gets sent to the server, the server validates it and says ok, then executes it, and your incoming stream gets processed and your graphical information gets redrawn showing you execute that command. For dodge, it is started at client side then the fact that you are dodging gets sent to the server for it to use to grant you evasion of attacks for the duration. So in the case of dodging, you see yourself dodging before the server does, so there is a period between the start of the dodge and when it gets to their server and is validated and recognised where you can still be hit. As mentioned for skills, the hit is determined at server side, so if the server registers that you’ve been hit just before it receives the information that you started a dodge 20-40ms ago, it has already sent the information to your computer to say you’ve been hit and took x amount of damage. So you can see yourself getting hit during a dodge within the duration it takes information to travel from your computer to the server and back, from the start of that dodge. It’s not something ANet can fix, because in the scenario your computer “knows it is executing a dodge” but the server “knows you took the hit.”

Edit: Actually what am I saying? Of course it can be fixed. It would just be extremely fiddly and difficult, and create other problems. For example, let’s say your client has the ability to say, “hang on, I’m dodging, I’m not taking that hit.” By which time the server now knows you dodged, and needs to amend the values involved, such as your health, your endurance, and the other player’s facts like if it was a thief that used flanking strike, it would have turned over to larcenous strike. What’s more, the other player, and all other players in the area, would have seen you take the hit. You’re now out of sync, and re-syncing would be confusing, and people would then be complaining not that they got hit mid dodge, but their hit was evaded when their target wasn’t dodging! Imagine seeing you hit land, then suddenly the target dodges, their health from that hit is restored, you get a seemingly random “evaded!” floating notice, and any skills you had unlocked resulting from that hit get turned back. It gets worse. What if you activated that turned over skill you were not meant to have before the resync? What if the player went down, and you see them suddenly get back up with a dodge instead? What if you had started stomping and tanked some damage to do so, only to find the player didn’t actually go down and you went from winning to almost dead? Getting hit mid dodge is the simpler and less chaotic problem of the two to pick.

It’s no latency.

if u have high latency you’ll see a desync between your dodge and your endurance bar depleting ( basically the thing you’re saying).

I’m talking about a totally different problem, or rather dodge roll evasion frames are bugged.

It’s pretty clear when you run caltrops on dodge on thief and u dodge , hear the caltrops ( which happen at the same time of the evasion frames) and you still get hit by random hits.

It happens mostly at the start of the dodge roll.

it’s even more visible on pin down due to its duration: when it happens, you get immob’d and stuck within the dodge animation.

zone.1073:

Mrbig.8019:

MyPuppy.8970:

What about the player base? What do we have to expect when playing solo ranked?

Players are much much worse in ranked than unranked. Fact.

People may perceive ranked to be full of bad players because the MMR system is separate from unranked. People grind through so much unranked that they often play very competitive matches in unranked. Then, they hop into ranked where their MMR is still low, and get matched versus beginners.

I’m not perceiving anything.

As a solo player unranked is way better since decent players are solo-duo queing there and that’s what you meet, instead of going ranked where u face terrible pre-mades with turret engies on ts playing just to farm their leaderboard rank.

ye that’s EU current state.

Just logged to see if i still suck ( i do) and i’ve noticed that not only the game sucks, i also suck but now you’re BEING HIT MID DODGE ROLL AGAIN.

Nice.

MyPuppy.8970:

What about the player base? What do we have to expect when playing solo ranked?

Players are much much worse in ranked than unranked. Fact.

Mostly because the game is dead.

Saiyan.1704:

Mrbig.8019:

Saiyan.1704:

Mrbig.8019:

Saiyan.1704:

Drennon.7190:

Booms.2594:

Saiyan.1704:

This better not change how Guardian teleports with flashing blade and Judge’s intervention… that’s all I gotta say…

it will. which is why im kittened.

Didn’t you hear? Teleports are super OP.

I’m still trying to understand the extent of “No Vertical Teleport”.
Please tell me, which of the following attached pictures are allowed if this patch went live? Obviously there are more spots to Teleport but this will give me an idea.

A-> with Sword u can engage-disengage from below the treb. Clearly broken and uninted, since u teleport through walls ( altough there’s a walk path for it).
Broken.

B-> Same as A. Another case of “through walls” vertical mobility.
Broken

D-> Same as A. With sword u can go through walls as long as u have a target on mid.
Broken

E-> Same as A.
Broken

They’re all broken ports mechanics that reward the thief and thief only ( my main is thief btw).

If your ability is a shadow step (and almost all teleport abilities are shadowsteps, ask Coulter for details) it SHOULD be that you shouldn’t be able to go through walls, even if there’s a walk path for it ( teleporting on Niflhel mid ledge from below is the clear example).

Shadow step should work ONLY if there’s a STRAIGHT WALK PATH, otherwise teleport classes have too much edge over the others.

This is a good change, but they really need to rebalance certain professions after this change, cuz thief will get much worse, mesmer will receive a bigh hit but will be compensated by thieves not being able to pursue them as good as before and even necros will get a hit but they still have spectral walk ( spectral return is a TRUE teleport btw).

Mostly cuz i don’t want to see pew pew rangers invading tPvP.

Thanks for the reply.
A lot of thief skills say Shadow Step. Guardian has Teleport. I’m pretty sure the Guardian’s Teleport is on the same mechanics. Edit: Right like you said lol.

It will hurt Guardians more than thieves if this is the case. Our two “Teleport” skills will become even more frustrating and wasteful… these need to be class specific.

At the very least Anet could redefine these skills.
A “Teleport” should be an instantaneously port regardless of objects while Shadowsteps should be line of sight/pathways only.

It won’t hurt guardians cuz guardian mobility isn’t mandatory.

Their teleports are used more to stick on target/burst in rather than an in-built mechanic.

This isn’t the case of thieves/mesmers ( thief more heavily) , since they are totally dependant upon dodging-teleporting-stealthing in and out.

How the Guardian engages is half the battle. The middle of Foefire is a good example. I’d like to Teleport over a hill to engage, or the ability to disengage a zerg in mid by targeting some one who’s coming from far.

We’re not a mobile class but we had options. Now these options will be taken from us.

The patch will hurt us just the same.

So a class with 1 teleport ( 2 if u take the not viable sword) will get hurt the same as a profession which has teleports as an in-built mechanic.

kappa.

it’s bad.

Don’t write walls of text, it’s not worth anymore, devs don’t listen, the community doesn’t care ( as you’ve seen) altough i would argue there’s not a community anymore and the game sucks.

Just quit till the game gets interesting again

Lordrosicky.5813:

Coulter.2315:

One of the things that contributed to me not wanting to play in a team seriously was that if I had an off day or played a little worse than my best the team would suffer greatly. I couldn’t take the stress of being the obviously vulnerable link for others and ruining their night.

I am no where near the ability level of Misha or Helseth but certainly not such a bad player that this crippling effect is down to me alone (I fully admit I have a high variance on my play so I’m not without blame).

I understand where OP is coming from though. Luckily the people I tend to play with are happy to accept the risk and don’t ask me to change – this said though I wouldn’t want to subject them to the horrors of a string of bad nights just because I’m not at 80%+ of my cap while trying to be a serious team.

This is the same issue i have with necro. You need to play in a comp which supports it and with people who understand how to support you. For me the combination of this has never happened which is why i did so well at solo queue for a long peroid but only was at the top of team queue when the leaderboards first came out.

The point we are both making, i think, is that playing classes which can only play roamer roles and have poor self sustain = pushes people away from playing in teams. So it kind of drives ppl away from the game. I have no doubt that in a settled 5 man team mesmer and necro can be totally dominant. But it just isnt going to happen because finding a team to play with is impossible when people are unwilling or unable to even recognise they need to adapt to bring in a mesmer or necro.

I think the solution is to create viable spe s with high self sustain for all classes. Only necro and mesmer are currently in need of these specs

it’s not even this.

The real problem is “why should we bring a necro when a cele engi is so much better on almost everything” and so on with other professions.

Even thief is kinda “meh” right now and it’s the most OP roamer this game has.

There’s so much healing/condi clear floating right now ( with so much damage added) that if u play a dps comp ( mes-thief-nec/condi engi + 2 holders) you’re risking the “snowball” game as soon as u do 1 mistake.

It’s totally not worth, even the most skilled players do mistakes ( as we’ve seen in the WTS finals) in every game, be it E-game or real games.

The risk/reward ratio in Gw2 is totally skewed, that’s why the game is boring and it’s dying.

jim.5380:

for me mesmer or even dps ele or even dd thief is not the issue, the issue is that the competitive population has decay, its impossible to make a team with decent enough team play to be able to support those. On paper and on actuality 3 berserker amulets should beat celestial meta, but who is there to support them atm?(not talking for sd thief or medi guard, those 2 are self sustain…) so what u have to think is how much u have to push for the game to get the team-play level that is needed to be able to play those classes… most likely the ppl u talk to have no chance of making that gameplay level and there are about 10-20 ppl both regions that can pull this and the majority of them are already in teams

dis

Saiyan.1704:

Mrbig.8019:

Saiyan.1704:

Drennon.7190:

Booms.2594:

Saiyan.1704:

This better not change how Guardian teleports with flashing blade and Judge’s intervention… that’s all I gotta say…

it will. which is why im kittened.

Didn’t you hear? Teleports are super OP.

I’m still trying to understand the extent of “No Vertical Teleport”.
Please tell me, which of the following attached pictures are allowed if this patch went live? Obviously there are more spots to Teleport but this will give me an idea.

A-> with Sword u can engage-disengage from below the treb. Clearly broken and uninted, since u teleport through walls ( altough there’s a walk path for it).
Broken.

B-> Same as A. Another case of “through walls” vertical mobility.
Broken

D-> Same as A. With sword u can go through walls as long as u have a target on mid.
Broken

E-> Same as A.
Broken

They’re all broken ports mechanics that reward the thief and thief only ( my main is thief btw).

If your ability is a shadow step (and almost all teleport abilities are shadowsteps, ask Coulter for details) it SHOULD be that you shouldn’t be able to go through walls, even if there’s a walk path for it ( teleporting on Niflhel mid ledge from below is the clear example).

Shadow step should work ONLY if there’s a STRAIGHT WALK PATH, otherwise teleport classes have too much edge over the others.

This is a good change, but they really need to rebalance certain professions after this change, cuz thief will get much worse, mesmer will receive a bigh hit but will be compensated by thieves not being able to pursue them as good as before and even necros will get a hit but they still have spectral walk ( spectral return is a TRUE teleport btw).

Mostly cuz i don’t want to see pew pew rangers invading tPvP.

Thanks for the reply.
A lot of thief skills say Shadow Step. Guardian has Teleport. I’m pretty sure the Guardian’s Teleport is on the same mechanics. Edit: Right like you said lol.

It will hurt Guardians more than thieves if this is the case. Our two “Teleport” skills will become even more frustrating and wasteful… these need to be class specific.

At the very least Anet could redefine these skills.
A “Teleport” should be an instantaneously port regardless of objects while Shadowsteps should be line of sight/pathways only.

It won’t hurt guardians cuz guardian mobility isn’t mandatory.

Their teleports are used more to stick on target/burst in rather than an in-built mechanic.

This isn’t the case of thieves/mesmers ( thief more heavily) , since they are totally dependant upon dodging-teleporting-stealthing in and out.

Saiyan.1704:

Drennon.7190:

Booms.2594:

Saiyan.1704:

This better not change how Guardian teleports with flashing blade and Judge’s intervention… that’s all I gotta say…

it will. which is why im kittened.

Didn’t you hear? Teleports are super OP.

I’m still trying to understand the extent of “No Vertical Teleport”.
Please tell me, which of the following attached pictures are allowed if this patch went live? Obviously there are more spots to Teleport but this will give me an idea.

A→ with Sword u can engage-disengage from below the treb. Clearly broken and uninted, since u teleport through walls ( altough there’s a walk path for it).
Broken.

B→ Same as A. Another case of “through walls” vertical mobility.
Broken

D→ Same as A. With sword u can go through walls as long as u have a target on mid.
Broken

E→ Same as A.
Broken

They’re all broken ports mechanics that reward the thief and thief only ( my main is thief btw).

If your ability is a shadow step (and almost all teleport abilities are shadowsteps, ask Coulter for details) it SHOULD be that you shouldn’t be able to go through walls, even if there’s a walk path for it ( teleporting on Niflhel mid ledge from below is the clear example).

Shadow step should work ONLY if there’s a STRAIGHT WALK PATH, otherwise teleport classes have too much edge over the others.

This is a good change, but they really need to rebalance certain professions after this change, cuz thief will get much worse, mesmer will receive a bigh hit but will be compensated by thieves not being able to pursue them as good as before and even necros will get a hit but they still have spectral walk ( spectral return is a TRUE teleport btw).

Mostly cuz i don’t want to see pew pew rangers invading tPvP.

This is a good change if they don’t make the game glitchy like it was last time they tried.

It’s not like it’s the most important thing to fix in the game, but removes some cheese from thief.

Next step is to fix all the restant cheese ( double procs, double weap swaps, cele, trickery steal) so i can start playing this game again.

Lexiceta.4156:

Hard to disagree with original post except in one regard, Adjured really never had a prayer of winning, Seriously 4 games lost, one of which by 300+ points to a team that was obviously better.

They were not better.

Necro is unplayable vs thief+guard ( or thief-mes, for the sake of arguing).

Nec is viable only if the other teams plays without 2 zerks, otherwise even longbow ranger+ thief/guard reks him.

Ofc i’m talking about equal skill level, something you rarely see on NA, mostly cuz teams disband-reform like night and day, often inglobing new players ( and this is a really good thing tho).

What’s coming tomorrow ?

Maylo.5892:

I just wish that maybe, we can start over with the new expansion and Stronghold, that looks imo interesting but, after all what happened in the past, my hopes are low. And i really used to love this game and everything, but since Devs are just laughing in the videos i dont think there is being taken anything seriously from the competitive perspective of the game, it is forgotten how popular the game, as for the PvP, was at the start and how it looks now, all new good teams are just veteran players grouping with other veteran players..

Kanek.5472:

Mrbig.8019:

Elitist.8701:

Lately I’ve been seeing a lot of people wanting to nerf celestial amulet so that the game can go back to the Zerker meta. They claim that in a meta like that, it would take high skill and be very quick paced. People want to believe that’ll be the case but, in actuality it’ll be awful. Full zerker team comps basically NEED Thief/Mesmer to be viable because they provide team defense in the form of stealth. What teamfights will come down to is whole teams camping in stealth and then whoever leaves stealth first gets instagibbed. That’ll lead into a snowball and then a fast and easy 3 cap, and then they’ll spawn camp, just like any cele comp, but much faster. 3 people spamming random crap on someone and killing them doesnt take skill. The reason why this doesn’t work right now is because of the synergy of the celestial classes. Take that away and we get this.

Do you guys really want a zerker meta?

Dude you’re literally crazy.

Do u know what happens when people go down in this meta ?

Nothing.

U just poison it and spam damage, most timesin a teamfight u can’t even try to ress without getting your whole team obliterated ( and we saw it in wtd finals too).

Cele comps make outnumbering very hard, since they’re all capable to sustain themselves, while in old bunker guard meta the guard had to properly rotate wherever the big fight was otherwise they had no chance.

Cele meta is totally brainless rotation wise, u even said it yourself on the abjured thread: just take 2 points and snowball with roamers.

Orng won vs them cuz nec is not viable vs EU comps.

If this game wants to be competitive it needs to remove this “jack of all trades hero builds” and bring back some sort of defining, like it was when Phanta team paradigm used to play.

Celestials technically serves the purpose of ‘Good at everything but excels at nothing.’ But the problem is that it’s really strong for certain professions and those professions would need some fine tuning just to be balanced. Though Elementalist itself is actually one of those ‘Jack of all trades’ Professions. The issue with it lies within where the traits are.

Technically speaking, all the good traits are in Water magic and Arcana, in which some should be shifted out of the tree or removed for new ones.

Engineers follow a similar philosophy as to having the ‘right tools for the job’, but the issue is that some tools are better than others. In which those skills should be nerfed and the others should receive a minor buff to be balanced.

Warriors should Rely on being a more tanky front-liner than to have some good healing. I suggest that Vigorous shouts to be removed and for Cleansing Ire to have a 60 second CD. In which should make Mending more appealing than healing signet.

If u nerf baseline professions skill then all other builds for that profession become subpar.

We had no problem till they buffed cele and might stacking.

The issue is cele builds are easily stackable and have multiple heals so they peel and support for each other, making fights endless.

Cele ammu needs to disappear.

xDudisx.5914:

Zerker meta would be terrible. There are already too many zerkers in the celestial meta.

If I wanted to play a game where everyone dies/kills the enemy in 3 seconds I would be playing battlefield.

Do u prefer to watch 2 cele eles fightining on point for 2 minutes ?

Lopez.7369:

There is only one class that has always been mandatory in every PvP group. Yet, until this thread, I have never seen people complain about it. Kind of interesting.

there was only 1 mandatory class in the past and it was bunk guard.

it was 100% better back then, instead of this self sustain sheet we have right now.