Guild Wars 2

Elitist.8701:

Lately I’ve been seeing a lot of people wanting to nerf celestial amulet so that the game can go back to the Zerker meta. They claim that in a meta like that, it would take high skill and be very quick paced. People want to believe that’ll be the case but, in actuality it’ll be awful. Full zerker team comps basically NEED Thief/Mesmer to be viable because they provide team defense in the form of stealth. What teamfights will come down to is whole teams camping in stealth and then whoever leaves stealth first gets instagibbed. That’ll lead into a snowball and then a fast and easy 3 cap, and then they’ll spawn camp, just like any cele comp, but much faster. 3 people spamming random crap on someone and killing them doesnt take skill. The reason why this doesn’t work right now is because of the synergy of the celestial classes. Take that away and we get this.

Do you guys really want a zerker meta?

Dude you’re literally crazy.

Do u know what happens when people go down in this meta ?

Nothing.

U just poison it and spam damage, most timesin a teamfight u can’t even try to ress without getting your whole team obliterated ( and we saw it in wtd finals too).

Cele comps make outnumbering very hard, since they’re all capable to sustain themselves, while in old bunker guard meta the guard had to properly rotate wherever the big fight was otherwise they had no chance.

Cele meta is totally brainless rotation wise, u even said it yourself on the abjured thread: just take 2 points and snowball with roamers.

Orng won vs them cuz nec is not viable vs EU comps.

If this game wants to be competitive it needs to remove this “jack of all trades hero builds” and bring back some sort of defining, like it was when Phanta team paradigm used to play.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Mrbig.8019:

Now i’m no more cuz the game sucks, it’s a sheetton of passive sheet put togheter and my pvp experience ( like many other players even TOP players) is just bad, plainly bad.

So i don’t concentrate anymore when i’m playing, getting progressively worse.

And i see no reason to concentrate again and getting good again.

This has very little to do with the EU community, although it’s truly bad, toxic and right now much inferior to NA one.

Tbh i just can’t understand why NA community is getting healtier and bigger right in the time were gw2 PvP is at its lowest but whatever, your choice.

Have fun playing this crap game, i’ll just wait for HoT

The irony in this post is real. You are exactly what is wrong with this community.

I agree, i’ve been a very toxic player in the last few months.

Still doesn’t change the fact the game is in a terrible state right now, so people who understand the mechanics of this game will be frustrated.

Almost all good players in EU have already left and all the potentially good ones ( like i the ones i like to put me in) have no incentives to keep on playing and get good ( or going back being good again).

You can argue about my personality, you can’t argue about current state of the game.

Elitist.8701:

Or maybe just get better at the game ^^

I was better.

Now i’m no more cuz the game sucks, it’s a sheetton of passive sheet put togheter and my pvp experience ( like many other players even TOP players) is just bad, plainly bad.

So i don’t concentrate anymore when i’m playing, getting progressively worse.

And i see no reason to concentrate again and getting good again.

This has very little to do with the EU community, although it’s truly bad, toxic and right now much inferior to NA one.

Tbh i just can’t understand why NA community is getting healtier and bigger right in the time were gw2 PvP is at its lowest but whatever, your choice.

Have fun playing this crap game, i’ll just wait for HoT

MarkPhilips.5169:

I tried today but i had 170 ms in a best scenario. Probably not the best weekend to do this test, i think i’ll try in a few days and a different times.

I’d like to know how much phantaram or hibify can ping in eu because you really need a ninja connection to have an acceptable delay.

tbh i don’t think it’s worth to swap, problem isn’t the fact eu is terrible atm, it’s i’ve lost the will to play.

I find myself to be worse everyday cuz playing vs passive procs and weapon swaps tired me and it’s prolly 2-3 months i don’t play at 100 % so i’m becoming a scrub.

I think i should just quit for a while and hope HoT will rehaul the sheet game Gw2 has became.

seems like i’m staying where i am.

I’ve usually 20-30 ms but 100-200 ms is totally unplayable, no idea how can u people even say it’s manageble.

Let’s face it, EU pvp community is currently terrible so I’m thinking of swapping.

mind i don’t have uber sweden connection

ronpierce.2760:

MrKrataus.6420:

Sube Dai.8496:

It is bad at 1v1 against zerk builds because the damage is weak.

I’d bring a lb ranger if the other team has shotbow, problem solved.

thief can’t, mesmer aswell, and I tested with lb ranger aswell, shoutwar got 2much tool to kill them easly while putting weakness and being tanky as sheet.

I hate to break it to you, but personal “testing” has nothing to do with viability of zerker builds against Shoutbow warriors…

I hate to break it for you, but your “idea” of zerk vs shoutbow makes no sense.

Shoutbow has been created with the EXACT PURPOSE of winning 1vs1-2vs2. it wins vs everything 1vs1 and stalemates eles.

As usual, u have no idea about what you’re saying.

MyPuppy.8970:

I had one 500/500 not so long ago. Never knew who won/lost, but it was exciting and fun so i guess we all won.

u had a 500/500 not so long ago

Matchmaking must be fine, kappa

Random Weird Guy.3528:

People play games for fun.
If you don’t have fun playing this game, then go play something else.

Problem is you can’t really play nothing else aside console games ( and most console games suck).

All other MMOs are like kitten when compared to GW2 and it’s a fact.

At least from a gameplay standpoint

Point is there’s literally no infrastructure and no interest/support about PvP (6 months patches ROFL).

Agree with OP

Chaith.8256:

BlackBeard.2873:

Chaith.8256:

Sigils are powerful, build altering options. This is true, but there are no great arguments at this time as to why a single target, avoidable, 6 second duration poison attack after swapping weapons, is objectively better than the the other top swap sigils, or crit sigils.

“Doom Sigil is OP because Celestial Builds can outsustain better.”

I think your wording here has made it evident the problem does not lie within the Doom Sigil but in Celestial Builds. Please tell me about how good Doom Sigil is whenever your profession doesn’t have poison, when anyone who can use Air/Fire is doing so, even if they have no poison.

1. Sigil of Doom isn’t exactly avoidable in most uses. Perhaps against a warrior where you can pay attention to the weapon-swap, but against something like an ele or engie that can swap attunements/kits mid-attack, thus instantly applying, its not really avoidable.

2. High sustain builds on classes like ele and warrior play the attrition game via might-stacking to win. Regardless of cele amulet, soldier (warr), or valks (ele), doom sigil synergizes with that strategy to such a powerful degree and pushes their high-healing over-the-top in a fight by applying so much -healing pressure to opponents. These classes are balanced around not having access to lots of poison.

3. Experience. Fight as a d/d cele ele without doom sigil and you do WAY less pressure than with. I have even watched streams of either OE or you (can’t recall which) from a few months back when people were figuring out the meta, and stating that your pressure is WAY higher (as an engie) when you have doom sigil, even though you had access to a good amount of poison with nades. You can still test this. Play a cele ele or warrior without doom and your TTK goes WAY up, even against non-cele builds. In fact, some fights that would be unfavorable are now in your favor as a cele ele thanks to doom sigil.

Also, fire/air is stupid too, for different reasons, but that should also be fixed as well. However, I will say that builds that use fire/air still have burst potential without these sigils. Cele builds (esp. warr/ele) have NO access to poison in any way without this sigil.

A couple patches ago, killing Phanta with Battle/Doom on my Engi was often impossible without a godly amount of RNG, with Intelligence over Doom, it was possible.

Doom is certainly more fire and forget than Intelligence though, I’ll say that much.

Also, when I dueled Toker’s Acro-SD Thief with Leeching/Doom, I hit maybe like one in 4 due to his ability to dodge most auto-attacks. So I typically went like 30 seconds at a time where Leeching/Doom were literally doing absolutely nothing. Mesmers are similar, Doom/Leeching are totally unreliable with clones eating it/dodging of auto attacks/invulns.

Also everyone in this thread talks about Doom in a 1v1 setting where it most shines. What about other fights where poison upkeep is literally a joke to achieve? Stacking Doom Sigils doesn’t translate into more pressure. This is why things like Battle/Intelligence/Air/Fire shine harder, because Conquest isn’t a long string of 1v1s.

Current meta is 2points snowball where 1 point holder holds 1vs2 long enough to snowaball.

So yes, 1vs1 and 2vs2 are THAT important right now.

Chaith.8256:

Mrbig.8019:

Chaith.8256:

Shiyo.3578:

Explain how classes that shouldn’t have access to poison(a HUGE 33% healing debuff) having essentially FREE access to 6 seconds of poison every 9 seconds isn’t overpowered.

Also, if it’s not the most overpowered sigil, what is?

Professions that aren’t supposed to have high critical chance suddenly have many crits with Intelligence Sigil

Professions that aren’t supposed to have vigor or more than baseline dodges suddenly have that with Intelligence Sigil

I mean, saying it in a hype way is useful to making a point, but really:

• Avoidable 6s poison attack on swap
• Unpreventable damage procs on Crit
• Unpreventable 50 Endurance refill on swap
• Unpreventable 2 Stacks of Might for 20s on swap
• Avoidable 975 damage & healing leech on swap
• Next 3 attacks guaranteed to crit, expends charges when attacks avoided.

I would say these are the best sigils…. why does there have to be one that’s the most overpowered, as you earlier claimed?

Objectively, the un-preventable ones such as Air/Fire and Energy are the most overpowered ones, but who cares, despite the game making sigils way too important to a build, the top 10 or so sigils are certainly well balanced with each other.

Doom sigil is the most OP right now cuz it allows cele builds to outsustain even better.

Aside engi ( which still has 2 condi clears every 15 secs) all cele proffs are the best at handling conditions.

It’s the same moot point of the the old " u can counter heal signet with poison lelelelel" without factoring that war has one of the best condi removal in game, even without zerk stance/shouts.

Moreover it allows to cover your burn ticks better, especially for the ele which wouldn’ have that free condi in their kitten nal ( u get dem 600 per tick burns covered by chill, 1-2 BLEED STACKS and other joke condies).

1 doom sigil proc on a mes will basically deal him 2 k free damage if he heals with it ( aside generosity on staff/sword but it’s basically the same if he has weap swap on cd) while on ele u just attune to water and gg.

Pls.

Sigils are powerful, build altering options. This is true, but there are no great arguments at this time as to why a single target, avoidable, 6 second duration poison attack after swapping weapons, is objectively better than the the other top swap sigils, or crit sigils.

“Doom Sigil is OP because Celestial Builds can outsustain better.”

I think your wording here has made it evident the problem does not lie within the Doom Sigil but in Celestial Builds. Please tell me about how good Doom Sigil is whenever your profession doesn’t have poison, when anyone who can use Air/Fire is doing so, even if they have no poison.

Infact i agree the problem resides on cele builds.

Point is sigils are totally broken since sigil patch.

If cele gets nerfed then we’re back to air/fire kitten-geo/doom kitten. Nothing will change because we’ve reached a disgusting power creep.

Cele ele is the sum of power creep: 600 burn damage per burn tick, 5 k fire grabs, 3-4 k burning speeds and 2 k air autos.

It’s a joke, and cele engi deals even more damage.

Chaith.8256:

Shiyo.3578:

Explain how classes that shouldn’t have access to poison(a HUGE 33% healing debuff) having essentially FREE access to 6 seconds of poison every 9 seconds isn’t overpowered.

Also, if it’s not the most overpowered sigil, what is?

Professions that aren’t supposed to have high critical chance suddenly have many crits with Intelligence Sigil

Professions that aren’t supposed to have vigor or more than baseline dodges suddenly have that with Intelligence Sigil

I mean, saying it in a hype way is useful to making a point, but really:

• Avoidable 6s poison attack on swap
• Unpreventable damage procs on Crit
• Unpreventable 50 Endurance refill on swap
• Unpreventable 2 Stacks of Might for 20s on swap
• Avoidable 975 damage & healing leech on swap
• Next 3 attacks guaranteed to crit, expends charges when attacks avoided.

I would say these are the best sigils…. why does there have to be one that’s the most overpowered, as you earlier claimed?

Objectively, the un-preventable ones such as Air/Fire and Energy are the most overpowered ones, but who cares, despite the game making sigils way too important to a build, the top 10 or so sigils are certainly well balanced with each other.

Doom sigil is the most OP right now cuz it allows cele builds to outsustain even better.

Aside engi ( which still has 2 condi clears every 15 secs) all cele proffs are the best at handling conditions.

It’s the same moot point of the the old " u can counter heal signet with poison lelelelel" without factoring that war has one of the best condi removal in game, even without zerk stance/shouts.

Moreover it allows to cover your burn ticks better, especially for the ele which wouldn’ have that free condi in their kitten nal ( u get dem 600 per tick burns covered by chill, 1-2 BLEED STACKS and other joke condies).

1 doom sigil proc on a mes will basically deal him 2 k free damage if he heals with it ( aside generosity on staff/sword but it’s basically the same if he has weap swap on cd) while on ele u just attune to water and gg.

Pls.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Exedore.6320:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

When it comes to agreement, engineer has a few skills that everyone pretty much unanimously thinks is OP (Overcharged Shot, Slick Shoes, Gear Block). Even warrior, players can mostly agree that war banner is a very strong skill.

Be careful with the forums. People will say something is OP because it’s the most noticeable ability when they died; not because it’s how they died or what’s too strong.

• Incendiary Powder is too strong because you can’t avoid being hit by it and because it’s difficult to remove with lots of cover conditions. The trait should be completely reworked, but for now, a duration reduction would help a lot
• Slick Shoes is too strong and frustrates players because it’s too easy to knock them down multiple times. However, I would argue that Slick Shoes should retain the ability to knock down twice, but only with good planning.
• Overcharged Shot should be left alone for now. It has no tell for its use, but you can reasonably predict it and it self-CC’s. Unless the engineer uses a stun break, of which they have few, they aren’t going to be able to unleash a ton of damage onto you. You have to anticipate it coming and use blocks, blinds, stability, stun breaks, etc appropriately. It’s not like the old Pin Down (warrior longbow #5) with a 0.25sec cast time and 3sec immob. Fix the first two things before you change this. Overcharged shot doubles as an interrupt and defense against glass cannon melee and adding a cast time breaks that.

1. What skills can both sides of this argument agree on are too strong and COULD be shaved for elementalist? I highly doubt a massive nerf to celestial elementalists is going to happen, so what can we agree is OP or lacks counterplay for elementalist?

There’s no consensus because there’s no agreement about what d/d ele’s strenths and weaknesses should be. Is its sustain too strong and damage okay? Or is the damage too strong, but sustain good? Is the group utility right or is it too much? Should it be weaker in 1v1, team fights, or both? All of the above? I haven’t seen a consistent answer about where d/d celestial ele should fit.

Bout to quote the crap out of this in my report. Exactly what I’ve gathered from all of this debate.

Maybe it’s too strong on every single of these things ?

“best 1vs1 proff, especially on point”

“too much damage for its suatain”

“too much sustain for its damage”

“too much mobility”

“too much support”

“too much might stacking” ( it’s support too, but worth of a mention)

It’s not like bunker guard ( full support) is any better, not even on condi clears.

Bunk guard with soldier runes = 2/30+2/35+2/60 = 1 condi clear every 15 secs ( approx).

1 ele properly rotating its attunements will give 1 condi clear every 10 secs AND more healz.

50% prot uptime and might stacking.

Moreover it can be stacked, something u just can’t do with eles.

Basically EVERY SINGLE ELE ASPECT IS OP.

The only thing guard is worth for is SyG.

Arken.3725:

We seem to be circling back around to Celestial Amulet being the culprit. It’s not the primary offender but it does accentuate the problem. I also believe that when HoT releases the state of balance will change, just not sure if for the better. Let me explain:

Ever since the GW2’s creation, every single iteration of balance has leaned towards a more tanky, self sustaining era of balance. We’ve went from the Berserker meta(my favorite) to the Condi-tank meta and finally, to the Celestial meta. Each time we’ve leaned towards more and more tankiness as well as encouraging more condition application vs. positioning and setting up burst.

That’s mostly cuz in zerk era everything could be one shotted by thief-mes, hell even thief alone/ mes alone could shot everything ( mes still can).

Point is instead of buffing active defenses aNet went easymode buffing passive kitten like healing signet/vigor/prot uptime and healz.

Joke.

jportell.2197:

So doing some maths on this whole celestial thing and whether or not there is an overrepresentation of it in the game. I came up with the following from the WTS qualifiers for both EU and NA. Of the 45 people (9 teams total) streamed between EU and NA:

• 29 of those players used a celestial amulet
• Those same 29 players played either ele, engi, or warrior
• Elementalist was the most represented class between EU and NA
• Engi was most represented on NA and second most represented over all tied with warrior.
• Thief was the third most represented class with 5 players total on thief
• Mesmer guardian, and necro were all tied for fourth most represented class (mesmers only having Supcutie NA, no necros played WTS quals EU.)
• Rangers were the least represented class with only Eura, and Genyen playing ranger NA.

Some things to note. This does not take into account any profession swapping after the first game, I did one player: one profession. If the player swapped to a different class at any time they were still only marked as listing their initial profession on the first match.

What this shows, over half of the players that played in WTS (64%) were using the celestial amulet, the second most used was berserkers, with other random amulets (Nos using Carrion) sprinkled in here and there.

My feelings on celestial are already pretty clear, it doesn’t allow classes to be jacks of all trades, it helps three specific classes turn into masters of all trades. If you think that a meta where 64% of the players are using the same amulet (and for the most part the same builds), leaving any other build to be useless is okay. Then go a head and tell me these classes with this amulet is okay. If not, don’t stop telling ANET what is wrong with this until they fix it.

if gw2 devs had some decency, looking at these stats and old go4 cups, they would have banned cele ammu till balanced.

sadly they’ve none

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Mrbig.8019:

would be cool tho if teams tried to make mes fit in their comp.

55hp monks won the last 2 monthly finals in EU and they run with a mesmer.

Wow you really got the sense of what i was saying, i bet your friends are envious of your mental sharpness

Eurantien.4632:

Mrbig.8019:

SobeSoul.6910:

mistsim.2748:

glock.6590:

Nobody can 1v1 phanta when he is on far so they have to zerg him while losing other points.

nobody of equal skill can 1v1 a good d/d cele ele. has nothing to do with who the person is.

Wrong.

The thing that beats cele ele just doesn’t fit on teams.

Mesmer beats cele ele

Toker beats mesmer.

Can’t say i disagree.

would be cool tho if teams tried to make mes fit in their comp.

Altough there’re definitely some of the best players ( if not the best) in NA with their respective professions ( ele-nec above all), mesmers in NA really sux when compared to EU ones.

That’s the problem i really see here.

SobeSoul.6910:

mistsim.2748:

glock.6590:

Nobody can 1v1 phanta when he is on far so they have to zerg him while losing other points.

nobody of equal skill can 1v1 a good d/d cele ele. has nothing to do with who the person is.

Wrong.

The thing that beats cele ele just doesn’t fit on teams.

Mesmer beats cele ele

Revenant seems way too cool to be true tbh.

I really hope 2nd proffs specialization will bring the current 8 proffs/same old kitten builds boredom to a next level.

This game needs this expansion soooooo bad.

Bhawb.7408:

Chukree.1756:

Any professional response to my complain?

Stop being bad and you’ll realize that turret engi isn’t that good.

Turret engi is actually a decent choice even for low-top tier.

In NA where you play there’s already a team running 1 if not 2 turret engis.

If people don’t play it it’s mostly due to it being a low morale build, like phd said.

one of the few reasons to keep playing this game.

GhOst.4019:

What you don’t get, is the + points on the leaderboard for winning or an increase in MMR. You still get the win though.

and that’s exactly what i’m talking about.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Mrbig.8019:

Thx to anet u don’t get the win anymore if a guy in the other team leaves and doesn’t reconnect in 1 minute.

This is simply not true.

perhaps some details are missing in your story?

You’ve no clue about how current “leaderboard” works, do you ?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Party-members-will-receive-a-desertion/first#post4691689

i guess i was not clear enough.

I’m referring to people on the other team ragequitting after the first wipe.

Thx to anet u don’t get the win anymore if a guy in the other team leaves and doesn’t reconnect in 1 minute.

So ragequitting on the other team = no win for yours.

Kappa.

And u don’t get the win.

Kappa.

MarkPhilips.5169:

I forgot, little OT but very very important:

Balance Frequency

With HoT we’ll have 9 new specs (A LOT of new stuff) + 1 new prof. Without a fast balance, the entire pvp scene risks to collapse.

Have you plan to speed up (at least 1 month) the balance frequency and not a 6 month old meta anymore?

I think is really crucial.

Marthindon.6429:

Let’s put it out there – people rage against turret engi for two reasons:
1. Their own preferred class/build struggles against turrets (or they dont play well enough)
2. They’re envious that others appear to be getting away with putting in less effort and skill than they are and getting a better result.

Turret engi is so limited as a build is laughable to call it OP. Honestly.

The answer to the turret engi is simple – it’s all about the team.
1. Turrets suck as team members because they lack the ability to rotate off their points. Oh the helplessness of sitting on home unable to help at mid because you’ll have no weapons if you leave your turrets.
2. Let classes on your team who are hard counters to turrets go and drop them.
3. Turrets cant retake points as easily as they can hold them. Once they’ve lost it you can mess with them. Engaging them off point when returning from spawn is a win.

I play several classes/builds and turret engi is by far the least amount of work and the least useful. If I have a low MMR team with me I’ll play it just for the cheese mode. On a high MMR team I don’t even consider bringing it.

It’s seriously just a LTP and learn to work as a team with adaptive tactics kinda issue.

I can speak for myself only but whatever.

My main is thief and as a thief ( on S/D) i would NEVER lose to a turret engi.

The problem stands to these factors:

→ All current meta builds ( cele engi-war-ele) need proper rotations ( aside war, since u just really need to weap swap properly but that’s a whole another story) to be able to counter pressure.

Turret scrubs don’t. They can just LoS u while using a random Overcharged shot at you, mostly due to high prot uptime, innate tankiness due to traits and tank amulet.

→ All current meta builds die very fast in a 2vs1

This is mostly the reason why cele war, altough braindead, is not really an issue.

A turret engi with crate will take sensibly more time to be killed in a 2vs1 and this is not due to invulns/smart plays/kiting or whatever, but simply cuz it can’t be shotted due to extreme tankiness and due to PASSIVE CCs from turrets detonation.

Turret engies can blast their only water field like 3-4 times and get back again while knocking people up and down without even realizing it.

Decent ones can do it by themselves but if u have literally no clue, you’ll still be TOO hard to fight.

At the end of the day , noob builds can stay but they need to suck hard.

Turret engi can be played at decent level with zero skill ivolved and it’s THE ONLY build able to do so.

There’s no way a point assaulter should say “omg no the point is held by a turret engi, better going elsewhere” cuz its damage/tankiness comes 100% from PASSIVES and PASSIVES should never overcome skill ( and since this game is based on conquest, holding a point for 10-15 seconds more thanks to AI means AI overcomes skill).

This is not right by any means.

Khenzy.9348:

Achieving balance on that regard is very unlikely, not enough players.

It’s way worse, there’s no way to learn how to play in this game.

90% of playerbase is terrible.

ronpierce.2760:

If you ask me annoying =/= op, and low skill floor isn’t a reason to hurt build diversity. Everyone is going to have some build they hate and if everyone got their way we’d all be fighting with sticks. And eventually those would get nerfed too. Honestly, its a real problem when a community complain about lack of diversity then attacks every build they can, even if they know they’re already not a highly competitive build, they just “don’t like it” or its “too easy”. Just my two cents… Its a bit pathetic.

~ Don’t play turret engy.

If diversity= afk brain while being a very strong 1vs1 point holder

then kitten build diversity, no one wants this kind of “build diversity” aside terribads.

ye we all know they suck in organized team q, point is there’s no organized team q.

They’re lame and not fun, they’re also too effective for the % of brain needed to use them.

Okplsthx

leman.7682:

Hahah, lookZ familiAr. I may kNow that guy.

Maybe…?

Best illuminati ever

Doomdesire.9365:

Didn’t really notice a difference with the might stacking in sPvP today. I was still able to maintain 25/near 25 stacks of might on cele ele and the damage difference was not substantial. Seems like non meta classes that rely on might stacking(certain guardians, warrior, thief) get hit pretty hard but the meta classes (cele ele) don’t notice a difference. Changes don’t really make sense but whatever.

If it were me I wouldn’t nerf the amount of might you can get, or the damage, but rather the duration. 30 seconds of might shouldn’t exist. Might should be there to assist someone in delivering a heavy burst, not kept the entire fight.

Might stacks capped at 15 in PvP

Voilà might problem solved

But nooooo let’s nerf everything in the wrong way.

Supreme.3164:

Idea Of Evil.1845:

instead of nerfing thief or warrior or the frakin engi they went for ele coz all the babies cry if you are an average player u should have no problem fighting an ele to start with now they destroyed the only viable pvp build ele has and kitten thieves can still burst like kitten and stealth anytime good work

An ele can’t bunker like a warrior, can’t move fast as a thief( unless using a huge CD elite and even then they fall short) and can’t apply as much pressure as an engy in any reasonable amount of time…only thing eles can do “well” is outsustain you to death..and that doesn’t go well for your average player who consider ele is favourite target given his low HP pool and high CD skills

Ele can bunker better than war

Ele can move almost as fast as a thief

Ele can apply as much pressure as an engi, aside on dead bodies ( poison granedes help there).

You’re wrong on almost every aspect.

One step toward esports, WP anet

Maylo.5892:

What the heck are you even arguing about in this thread? Foefire will stay, it is one of the most demanded maps in every pick-up because it is good and just because the premades take bigger advantage on this map than solo players does not mean this map should be removed, the issue lies somewhere absolutely else and i am even surprised a dev came in to respond to such an irrelevant requirement from a maker of this thread.

The game has only 4 normal playable competitive maps and you wanna make it 3 because of completely different issue with lack of solo arena and bad matchmaking. thread /close

I would argue more about the fact that it is the most interesting map along with Temple BUT so boring at the same time.

From a watcher PoV, Foefire is totally boring: first wipe = GG.

I would totally redesign the map, even more knowing red side has a ridicolous advantage due to point shape ( aside the little and not really relevant jump puzzle blu point has to go to mid).

Tricare.2946:

Putting Stronghold as the GvG game type into spvp isn’t going to work well to represent guilds other than the ones that already spvp.

Having a GvG with 5v5 is already excluding a huge population that doesn’t do spvp as it is because of the small team sizes.

Having spvp gear and stats is another reason a lot of people don’t play that game mode. Most of the wvw pop likes to min max their gear which can’t be done in spvp.

There are more reasons than this but I’m off to work. Hope they will allow a setting to change between spvp rules or wvw rules

You’ve no business here in the PvP forum.

Justin ODell.9517:

Mrbig.8019:

This is actually proving my point.

I wouldn’t necessarly jump to that conclusion. The data could also be explained by the unique lord mechanic which can add 150 to your team’s score. Unfortunately I have no data on how often that happens.

Just watch an ESL stream and you’ll realize that.

When teams of different caliber face each other, Khylo/niflhlel/temple are WAAYYY more balanced than Foefire matches.

We’re not talking about “equal skill” ( since it’s something current matchmaking really doesn’t provide) but about “certain maps favouring premades”.

Courtyard is king there, when being on ts awards victory almost 100% of times, whereas foefire just follows right after due to how “snowballing” that map is.

This leaves us with 2 things:

1 Fix/remove the map

2 Fix matchamking

Justin ODell.9517:

Just dropping off some data.

Maps in order of mean difference between team scores in the last week of unranked arena.

1. Forest of Niflhel
2. Battle of Kyhlo +36
3. Spirit Watch +40
4. Temple of the Silent Storm +42
5. Skyhammer +44
6. Legacy of the Foefire +72
7. Courtyard +124

This is actually proving my point.

Could we have ranked arena data, cuz it’s what i’m referring to.

Lopez.7369:

The game is pretty balanced as is. I don’t think adding a weapon, healing skill, three utility skills, and an elite skill for each class, as well as a new class, should be overwhelming for the balance team. (Of course, my numbers could change if they add multiple specializations for each class. That could be a problem if it’s like three or more specializations.)

3 classes playing cele → balance → esports

Laraley.7695:

Yeah, remove the map that usually gets most votes. That would make so much sense.

It gets the most votes for a reason.

1. It favours cele bunker comps

2. it’s a snowball map, as soon you kill 1-2 players it’s almost impossible to come back favouring bad premades over better players

3. Lord rush always awards at least no point loss, thx to our dumb ladder rules.

It’s not hard at all to understand.

Or fix the solo vs premade issue.

I’m tired of getting farmed on foefire by scrub cele premades only cuz we’re all soloers.

Geiir.7603:

You need a full team. The idea is to have a tournament where you really get to test your skills against teams of a similar level. Pro players are forbidden in the tournament, and once you have won you have to wait for 1 month before you can enter again. This is to ensure that no team dominate every single tournament.

Things like this wouldn’t be needed if we had a funcioning mathcmaking with a serious ladder with proper rewards. Just sayin.

Gratz for the try tho.

uberkingkong.8041:

I thought the combination of solo que and team que would encourage more people to play as a team like it did back before the solo que system.

However that habit anet instilled on people to ‘its ok to play by yourself’ is really strong.
Anet needs to make incentives to play with others and not by yourself.
Maybe more reward track points for playing with others. Maybe PvP type karma and if you play with others you get more. (Glory). I’ll think of more ideas later, but its really the GW2 developers that should be the ones thinking.

They don’t pay you developers to just do stuff, they really pay you for your creative thinking, and if your not creatively thinking and figuring out stuff, than they should question your abilities.

In this day and age, anyone can be taught how to program, but not all have creative thinking skills.

Also, to you guys that are pro ‘play by yourself’ people. Your more likely to quit the game easier if you just play by yourself rather than having a community your in, a group of people you play with and etc. It’s better to promote community play together as parties rather than play by yourself.

Do I think they should force you to make teams? Nope, I do like playing solo every now and then but it shouldn’t really be all the time. Developers needs to focus on getting that 95% solo, 5% team to something more like 60% teams are queing and 40% solo people are queing.

Tell me a single reason to play with a team aside farming soloers

No, this is not a rage post.

I’m just stating current PvP situation.

Mathcmaking puts full teams vs soloers, it’s not fun for both.

People queue lesser and lesser, nobody cares to form teams and train ( it’s not even possible since do nothing more than farming soloers 24/7), balance is stale and horrible and the game suffers from obvious internal conflicts ( like proff. dailies) that show how little the company ( not the devs) cares about PvP.

If PvP has to stay in this state just delete it, so i can uninstall in peace without thinking at “what this game could be”.

Sincerely,

a player from betas.

Coulter.2315:

This update happened quite a long time ago now, certain objects to fall out of these changes have now overrun the game. Rune sets giving +45% duration, Sigil abuse creating more damage than the classes’s skills and certain stat weightings are causing the value of the player and class to decrease and the value of what you can scam from equipment to become the driving force of the meta.

Before balancing the classes we need to look at what we define as the core of our game – I want it to be the player and class – at the moment its what you’re wearing (unfortunately style is not my meaning).

Mesmers switching from Staff to Greatsword getting an immediate 4k Auto Attack (and if you dodge that first auto the next one is also 4k) should not exist. Warriors’ most powerful attack being Weapon Swap. Thieves Traitng PURELY for defense and utility because Sigils can make up the difference. These are just examples there are so many more abominations (haven’t mentioned Cele yet – just did, I know..).

We need to seriously go and look at how much influence we want these equipment additions to have, I would like it reduced. If we try to balance class skills before addressing these things we could very well end up crippling classes abilities when the reason they are even viable is because of R,S,A and I don’t want that.

TL:DR Fix R,S,A before hitting too many classes/boons/mechanics with the nerf bat – cause if you fix them later you could end up having pushed the previous targets into an unviable position.

They precisely went straight to buff them, they won’t go back.

Balance devs have literally no clue about the game OR ( and this is imho the real reason, just like proff. specific dailies totally ruining matchmaking) all balance changes are totally subordinated and made in order to make the game as casual as possible, so PvE scrubs can use PvP as a minigame now or then.

It’s business bro.

#outplayed

get gud erzian dear god

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

so why arent these in the meta now?
logic, go, buy some, you need.

Cuz no trickery steal rofl.

that’s what should be fixed by balance patches instead of “nerfing” might rofl

Because trickery steal is only daze

such knowledge
much wow

Infact trickery steal is not only a daze

it’s a boon rip
gives might/swift/fury/vigor
Heals
Poison

Can’t u see how unbalanced it is ? my main is thief and to me this kitten every 21 secs is totally broken.

yea, dude, i was totally not being sarcastic
let me quote you
“move daze to mug problem solved”

such knowledge
much wow.

If u had played a thief for at least 2 minutes you would know that the very reason why thieves go into trickery is having a stab ripping-uncounterable daze.

When cele wasn’t out of whack, trickery D/P ( 2-6-0-0-6) and acro S/D ( 2-6-0-6-0) were equally played, nobody would ever run trickery acro S/D or panic strike cuz THEY SUCK BALLS.

Right now every thief build needs trickery cheese in order to survive.

It’s time to nerf it and going back to skillful play.

SobeSoul.6910:

Don’t queue if you need to use the restroom. It’s simple as that.

wat is this i don’t even…

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

so why arent these in the meta now?
logic, go, buy some, you need.

Cuz no trickery steal rofl.

that’s what should be fixed by balance patches instead of “nerfing” might rofl

Because trickery steal is only daze

such knowledge
much wow

Infact trickery steal is not only a daze

it’s a boon rip
gives might/swift/fury/vigor
Heals
Poison

Can’t u see how unbalanced it is ? my main is thief and to me this kitten every 21 secs is totally broken.