Guild Wars 2

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

so why arent these in the meta now?
logic, go, buy some, you need.

Cuz no trickery steal rofl.

that’s what should be fixed by balance patches instead of “nerfing” might rofl

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

thief without boon rip is not a viable thief…- -..

Current D/P thief rips 2 boons every 20 secs.

Much rip

very wow

and the second best boon rip that is in the meta next to SD thief
your point?

give the guy with the most boon rip moar boon rip, not enough! give him moar damage, moar damage!
give the guy with less boon rip less boon rip, not enough! also give him less damage, less damage i say!

such logic
much wow

I don’t see your point.

S/D thief will trade reduced steal + boon rip on steal+ vigor/might/swift/fury on steal for moar damage

D/P thief will have all those option available without losing that much OR could go full damage on 6-6-2 /5-6-0-0-3

You’ve no idea what you’re talking about really.

Thieves go full into trickery since it gives basically another heal every 21 secs + daze ripping stab and aegis ( which is bad design, since it’s uncounterable).

If you split the daze, thieves will still have the option to do, but could go for other things ( more damage, more surv ecc…)

it’s all about build variety instead of the boring panic strike or trickery acro kitten.

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

thief without boon rip is not a viable thief…- -..

Current D/P thief rips 2 boons every 20 secs.

Much rip

very wow

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

Simon.3794:

Mrbig.8019:

Simon.3794:

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

Cynz.9437:

OP do you even know why people take trickery?…….

Pls tell me

Simon.3794:

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

Arken.3725:

Dahkeus.8243:

I totally don’t Gree with these proposed changes, even though I am ok with changes to berserker builds. Personally, I’d just tone down the offensive stats on the berserker amulet and increase the vitality so that pure glass builds aren’t so high dmg.

What? We haven’t had a zerker meta since the game’s creation. Nearly every iteration of balance has been leaning towards more tankiness. Instead of relying on reaction timing/ reading your opponent, it’s now possible to tank while maintaining near zerker-levels of dmg. The whole risk/reward has been thrown out the window.

The thing i saw in that post is basically “ye i’ve no clue about the game”.

Tbh current meta is not really about “tankiness” itself but more about “heal-boon-boon-boon-heal” ecc…

Engi goes down with a single spike , OP or not, same as shout war.

They mostly rely on boons ( especially ele-engi) in order to survive, and on very low damage of current zerk builds like 2-0-0-6-6 thief or panic strike.

Let’s start removing boons better.

Just shifting things here and there buffing boon hate would do the trick without having to buff zerk damage.

the issue, even with zerk proffs is they have too much sustain. I would start by nerfing their sustain ( aside guard, which needs it) so they’ll gear toward damage again.

Dahkeus.8243:

I totally don’t Gree with these proposed changes, even though I am ok with changes to berserker builds. Personally, I’d just tone down the offensive stats on the berserker amulet and increase the vitality so that pure glass builds aren’t so high dmg.

Wat.

zerk survivability has nothing to do with vitality.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Not sure repears prot is that good.

I personally think 4 6 0 0 4 is the best condi necro spec.

If 06404 then greater marks is pretty good too.

Helps nec not being focused.

But the real prob is it being totally passive and braindead, 1 random bleed and you’re feared for 3+ secs for 3k random damage.

Both it and and nightmare runes need nerf.

The buff on necrotic grasp is quite good so necs won’t struggle on life force gen due to a sub-optimal auto and we can go back to proper builds like the one u listed.

Justin ODell.9517:

Marcos.3690:

If you weigh party size too heavily you have this kind of threads
If you don’t you’ll have premade vs soloplayers complains

I don’t think there is a way via matchmaking to fix a low playerbase

I agree with you in general, but I may have been a bit over-zealous with the scoring changes I made. It’s at least worth looking into.

Since we’re here, it’s been 2 days (over 3 that i’m playing again) i’ve faced nothing more than premades.

First day was beareable, i was something lik 7-2, now i’m 7-15 ( rofl)

Pls justin, PLS.

It’s basically clear that we have this meta because zerk proffs just don’t work.

Cele builds basically deal the same amount of damage zerk builds go mostly due to them being OBLIGATED to stack as much defensive mechanics as they can ( 2-0-0-6-6 thief is the clear example) and due to the fact mes is the only proff with decet boon removal, but being too easily focused in team fights by random condition spamming.

So in order to bring back zerk builds, there are few changes that should be in there

THIEF

Merge daze on steal with mug, remove CD reduction

This is actually balanced by steal being back on 35 secs CD instead of 21 ( current steal is op as kitten) and having no more boon removal since no one will put traits into trickery anymore.

For god’s sake rewamp this useless trait line, people build into trickery ONLY for Bounthiful and Sleight.

Larcenous removing 2 boons

It makes no sense to have it to 1 boon since now you have to hit with Flanking in order to get Larcenous.

It made sense pre FS-LS chain nerf, now it doesn’t

Mesmer

Bountiful interruption

Change it from “and gain another random boon” to “STEAL A BOON FROM YOUR ENEMY”

Chaotin interruption

Remove the “random condi” thing, replace it with “heal X when u interrupt”, just like Mug

Shatters

Reduce all shatter CDs by 15 %

Reduce Illusions trait line reduction per point from 5% to 3%

Reasoning:

Rupt mes is uber strong, but no one plays it over shatter because

1 you deal less damage

2 shatter CDs are too long

3 you’re not that more survivable than common shatter

4 you give up on portal

These changes will bring 1 viable mes build to the table, without changing shatter which already does good.

Guard

Change “Searing flames” from 1 boon to 2 boons

Reasoning:

Common meta builds wouldn’t go for this trait because it’s weak.

Guard has no other boon removal option, it’s time to bring some.

They would give up on vigor for this, or condi removal.

Moreover, it prioritizes might ( thx god).

Seems balanced.

Necro

Last gasp

CD reduced to 35 secs

Reaper protection

Duration down from 2 secs to 1 sec

Wells

CDs reduced by 20 %

Necrotic gasp

Projectile velocity increased to be on par AT LEAST with ranger LB.

Basically….

QoL changes to remove must haves, and increase a much needed boon hate.

This with a slight cele nerf would hugely shift the meta.

Gratz, bye.

Joke.

such changes would be acceptable on a monthly basis, not after 6 months.

this game is hopeless.

lordkrall.7241:

I don’t know, I usually play for fun, but that might just be me I suppose.

So fun doing the same kitten over for 2 years with no infrastructure for any half decent player.

It’s not like this season rewards were any relevant and nobody really cared, but what about now ?

We won’t even get the joke leaderboard updated.

Is this serious ?

No balance

No content

No rewards

No recognition

This is silly.

Justin ODell.9517:

If you DC and do not reconnect within the grace period, yes.

This is to discourage groups from leaving the match early to invalidate a win for the other team.

So if i go solo and one of those randoms DCs-ragequits ecc.. i lose the game for him.

Why don’t u just give us back solo q and make a decent team leaderboard instead ?

This really makes no sense.

…. leaderboard standing if a member of their party has deserted the game, but only the deserting player will receive dishonor.

So if we get a DC, we auto-lose the game ?

WAT

Terrahero.9358:

Mrbig.8019:

They’re passive.

That is true for every. single. sigil. In fact the on Swap sigils are some of the least passive sigils.

Mrbig.8019:

Unpredictable.

Unpredictable only for you in the same way that any other instant-ability is unpredictable for you. And with enough skill to “read” the fight it can be predicted. There are far less predictable sigils around.

Mrbig.8019:

Unbalanced.

Because you say so?

Its funny how people in this thread are already pointing to Sigil of Battle so quickly. A sigil no one complained about until the big overhaul back in April. The overhaul that introduced the new Rune of Strength along with the Celestial amulet but didn’t actually change sigil of battle.
And yet people still insist things like sigil of battle are now broken, while the new celestial amulet or the new runes of strength are fine. Even though both of those are equally or more prevalent.

Ye most sigils are passive, but at least air/fire needs u to invest in crit in order to be useful.

Current “meta sigils” are just " swap as soon as possible".

There’s nothing active in getting might for 20 seconds on weap swap, neither on proccing bleeds/poison on weapon swap.

Intelligence is the only decent one, and it’s broken too.

Other instant abilities are given to certain professions for balance reasons ( and are actually quite balanced, even fresh air burst which is the most imba), weapon swap is available to ALL PROFESSIONS, regardless of balance.

They’re so balanced that current broken kitten = 3 classes abusing weapon swap.

Wow.

Balance.

Solstice.1097:

passive yes.

unpredictable not so much

unbalanced pretty much

engi/ele/war can activate weapon swap sigils the most often. they are also the 3 classes that tend to run celestial because battle sigil is a big part of might stacking which is required for celestial to work well.

Pls tell me about how predictable a doom/geomancy weapon swap is

They’re passive.

Unpredictable.

Unbalanced.

Pls explain.

Chaith.8256:

Mrbig.8019:

Chaith.8256:

Mrbig.8019:

The only reasons why we don’t see 5 ele teams is mostly cuz they don’t have AoE poison, they lack strong CCs like engies and cuz there aren’t so many good eles around.

Interesting theory. Although I think the fact that 5 defensive Melee players with very mediocre burst would have struggles that far out-shadow a problem that Doom Sigil and Updraft couldn’t solve.

What struggles for example ? I’m genuinely curious.

The question is really off topic but a clan of D/D Eles trying to hunt Thieves and Mesmers up and down cliffs & terrain would be pretty futile after Lightning Flash has been expended. It becomes Kite2win against 5 melee professions.

Eles are overall the strongest conquest pick but a pure Ele 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4, 5v5 is something less good. Falling flat on condition variety, boon removal, guaranteed spike, it’s extremely hard for Eles compare to the destruction that a pick of professions from the pool of: Thief, Necro, Engi Mesmer can pull off.

TLDR; Eles can do most everything well individually, but if you look at the grand scheme: 4-5 thoughtful unique professions allow you to truly do everything in the context of teamwork and roles.

I just can’t agree with this.

this game is won on capture points, it’s not a case the strongest professions are the ones with the strongest point presence.

if our 5 ele team is suffering the range they can just move the fight somewhere else.
2 eles will actually win every possibke 2vs2 so unless opposite team I running 4 squishies I see no way to win those fights.

and even if u win those fights, you’ll lose the game cos 4 squishies.

but u said it yourself: condition variety.

and here we go to what I said: ele lacks poison (engi aside reliable poison only has singke target confusion) and ccs.

those 2 are the real reason why 5 eles can’t really be viable.

but 3 eles + engi + x (another engi or thief or war ) is orolly not only viable, but also very very strong, we just need people to try it just to show how broken current balance is.

Chaith.8256:

Mrbig.8019:

The only reasons why we don’t see 5 ele teams is mostly cuz they don’t have AoE poison, they lack strong CCs like engies and cuz there aren’t so many good eles around.

Interesting theory. Although I think the fact that 5 defensive Melee players with very mediocre burst would have struggles that far out-shadow a problem that Doom Sigil and Updraft couldn’t solve.

What struggles for example ? I’m genuinely curious.

Chaith.8256:

Eurantien.4632:

I understand the hesitation in wanting to ban unbalanced abilities in competitive play (by competitive I mean like WTS) but given that “balance” updates are few and far between it seems the only fair conclusion because the game is not updated as frequently as it needs to be in order to create a fair competitive environment.

I would also like to mention that I agree with Shockwave. Even though you don’t see 5 d/d ele teams rolling around you often see things such as 2 engis, 2 d/d ele, X. Which imo, is class stacking of the 2 strongest classes and I believe the only reason they have engis is because they don’t know 2 d/d eles that are available as most every team desiring to be competitive has at least 2 d/d eles.

I think 1 D/D Ele and 1 Shoutbow Warrior as point holders, 2v2 skirmishers, in a Cele comp works 99% as good. Double Ele Double Engi comps have SFA for revive utility, which Battle Standard and the tactics line brings some of.. We have Wakkey on Ele instead of War because his specific role is to 1vX, which Ele does better than War.

Shoutbow is here currently simply because there’s no burst damage around but just very high sustained damage.

D/D ele is the uber build tho, you’re totally right, engi can’t really compare ( tho engi deals way more damage than ele).

The only reasons why we don’t see 5 ele teams is mostly cuz they don’t have AoE poison, they lack strong CCs like engies and cuz there aren’t so many good eles around.

Yes pleaz 15/pls

It’s kinda sad, these notes were actually pretty gud aside necro nerfs being too harsh.

They should nerf might stacking even harder than this

Any patch at all ?

game is literally unplayable till we see proper nerfs

Damsel Delilah.9084:

Leaderboards are meant to show the best players, not show who performs the best at their level and plays often. The old leaderboards were far from perfect aswell, but MMR is a much more reliable way to rank people than this system is.

Nailed it.

Most “current top 100 players” are trash tier players farming baddies/solo queuers on on their premades.

If I’ m trash tier and I play tons of games in my tier I should by no means being rewarded, because I’m not improving: I’m simply spending my time.

1 win from a newly formed team against a top team is WAAAAAAY more worthy than 100 wins of that player, due to skill levels being so different.

in current system, there’s absolutely no difference.

Lopez.7369:

I don’t agree that PvP is ruined, but I agree with the overall tone of your post. The fact the developers would throw these bug- and problem-ridden features live then take a vacation for two weeks shows just how out of touch they are with the community. I wouldn’t be surprised if PvP activity was actually reduced over the holidays. I know I played less.

More importantly, it’s become painfully obvious that there is no clear plan to revive PvP in Guild Wars 2. It’s been, by all measures, an unmitigated disaster. And, honestly, if they have no real plan, they should probably just scrap the game mode altogether and focus on parts of the game that have healthy populations but still need help.

I’m also playing way less than usual, less than half i would say.

Game is simply not playable anymore as a solo player, and even tho i’ve a “kinda” team, i’m just not inclined to play.

Things can’t stay this way for sure.

It’s not only about competition, it’s just that you NEVER have fair match ups.

90% of my games are me + clueless people vs premade, it makes no sense.

The fact that matchmaking was actually BETTER before this patch says it all.

infantrydiv.1620:

I agree with everything in your post.

IMO, this is probably the tankiest, most passive meta we’ve ever seen where most of the meta builds are rolling with over 4k stats from amulet+ might stacking.

I honestly probably preferred hambow era, where you’d at least see warrior duels ending quickly when someone got outplayed instead of the endless stalemate 1v1 between the cele tanks.

This is really wrong.

This is not the tankiest meta by any means, soldier hambow/spirit ranger meta was the tankiest.

Current cele meta is about uber damage everywhere, where a full tank ele can do a 6-7k crit with fire grab, where a full tank engi pry bars you for 5 k.

There’s no stalemate in this meta, if u play a sub par build ( aka: all builds) the cele ele/engi will destroy you in less than 30 secs.

Stalemates currently happen mostly cuz the ones you see dueling are indeed all uber OP proffs with ridicolous damage and sustain ( cele engi/war/ele)

The system is not working.

Soloers get matched with premades all time, u just need a good MMR player in a full team of scrubs and the system goes nuts ( WOW, THIS PLAYER MMR IS SO HIGH, LEMME PUT HIM AGAINST A FULL PREMADE OF ITS MMR).

As a solo queuer, i had 4 fair matches over 40 .

They’ve all been a top 100 ( real top 100) players super pugs farming me + 4 randoms all the time.

I’ve to thank god, stars alignement and who knows what else if we sometime managed to go beyond 50 points.

It’s clear current system is not working properly and matchmaking is not “matching” us properly.

Moreover, top teams still have no reason to play since season rewards are non existant.

Even more, i see no reason why i should play with my friends and go “seriouz businezz” since most people playing are pugs playing just for the sake of it due to no objective to play toward.

The game has been a big let down since patch, do something PLEASE.

Seiishizo.7162:

Man its so bad

http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/player/Leo7086

top 200 with 36% winrate XD

did 51 games today… won 29%….(15wins) gained 15 points… GG this system

for more bad leaderboard examples check bottom of these 2 pages:
http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/extra?region=na
http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/extra?region=eu

even prince vingador is top 10 in eu :P

This is just the first step for our overlord to rule us all

Silentshoes.1805:

“The current leaderboard is a farmboard and does not represent actual skill.”

Mostly, I disagree. There are people who tend to make their team lose. They play a lot but get few ladder points.

For each person on the ladderboard now, see if their points are greater than their number of wins.

Those people are skilled at team playing. They tend to get bigger-than-expected win scores, and bigger-than-expected scores even when they lose the match.

The people who pay a lot and tend to help their team win also tend to have higher ladder points.

You’re totally wrong.

Those people are decent randoms playing in a 5 men team with TS farming good players duo-trio queuing and paired with 2-3 uber scrubs.

MMR evens things out so if 2 amazing players are matched against a mediocre team, MMR will give them 3 bot players getting killed 3vs1 by Svanir.

This is 100% accurate.

Teutos.8620:

The thing is, with the introduction of the profession rating, basically all our old MMR got reset.

Therefore before the patch hits, you were on the top, and therefore you could count on also playing against teams on the top.

With the new profession mmr, the system thinks wrongly your team is only mediocre, and therefore you are playing against mediocre players and well, you are rightfully farming them.

I am hoping the matchmaking will get better, once the individuals are again ranked where they belong. -> Are there currently more Teams out there with >50 matches played, and still facing pugs?

The new point system should be a combination of matches played and MMR; We all know the problems from the old leaderboard, which was practically a pure MMR ladder. With a lucky win strike in your first few games, you could position yourself on the top.

Still, the current ladder is a problem, and it definitely needs some big improvements.

I don’t think it’s working that way.

Since the very first matches i’ve played on teef ( 2-3 games prolly to reduce deviance) i already went against super pugs with people from all old top 100 leaderboard.

I was fairly high in old LB ( top 100-150 in both tho decay so screwing current MMR even more) and now i just can’t get rid of premades when i go solo.

And since they’re 500-50 me 95% of times, i even lose points.

Asked justin, he said my MMR is just too high and can’t do kitten about it ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/How-much-rating-should-i-lose/first#post4636048

U can scroll down and see pictures and my amazing paint skillz).

For me it’s basically go full team or don’t play.

I’m literally forced to use TS since if i get a decent team with decent players we just go straight into esl players super pugs.

It’s not like i don’t think we can beat them ( in fact we can) point is if u can’t chill out and always need to go e-seriouz, things become boring pretty quickly.

I just want old solo q back.

This leaderboard is pointless, WHY CAN’T WE HAVE A TEAM LEADERBOARD LIKE 2006 WORLD OF WARCRAFT is beyond me.

Lowest Animal.8014:

Mrbig.8019:

Thief -> Mes -> everything else.

No zerk build is even remotely viable aside maybe medi guard and power nec ( arguably).

Other zerk builds simply bring NOTHING to the table when compared even to a simple Hambow ( fairly balanced build) or rabid engi ( slightly over the top build but still fairly balanced).

Stop saying it’s thieves/mes faults if you get rekt with your eviscerate war or fresh air ele.

They

just

suck

Get over it.

Nice attitude buddy, but you basically repeated what I said. I’m not talking about teef countering things 1v1, I was talking about teef currently being the best choice for the burst slot in teams. Much like dd cele becoming the best choice for the on point fighter slot(s) in this current meta and pushing out bunker guardian and hambow.

You could also make the argument that the roaming bruiser slot (cele engi, shout warr) is pushing out the burst builds with the exception of teef because even with their above average mobility, tankiness and dps; roaming bruisers cannot do the job teefs do.

“they just suck; get over it” Thats a nice attitude to have coming into a thread discussing balance, I can only hope anet is a little less cynical. Ideally I would like to see 2 or 3 different classes have each at least one competitive build for each role on a team be it on point fighter, bruiser, burst or support. I feel like we are almost there but a few class builds are too efficient at their role and in some cases encroaching on roles that they shouldn’t be able to perform.

Having variety in team comps will help the game not get stuck in a rut. I dont want to watch a game where 3+ out of 5 slots are preordained and mandatory (both class and build wise) to be successful.

It’s not like i want to have such attitude, point is that mes/thief are 2 professions that aside game mode ( which is totally irrelevant due to these profession’s strenght) are just plainly better than other professions due to stealth and evasiveness and capability to mitigate bursts ( invuln, teleports stealth, range and such).

In order to make other zerk professions even remotely viable they would need to overbuff them to ridicolousness simply enough to fill the gap between mobility and evasiveness, and even in that case i would argue it wouldn’t be enough.

Since i believe nothing in mes/thief mechanics will change ( at least not as much as needed in order to give other zerk proffs a slight chance), other zerk classes aside nec and guard ( whose are playable but no good) won’t see the light in the future.

Mind that both thief/mes are barely viable in current cele spam.

Imho they should focus more on making gaurd and nec decent choices rather than making other zerk professions slightly better ( whose will still suck ).

Variety is possible as long as aNet buffs and nerfs the right things ( something that happened quite rarely in the past 2 years and half).

Lowest Animal.8014:

Mesmer has always been fringe meta at best. We have been over this many times before. Its teef that pushes out zerker burst classes out of the meta. Shatter mes, fresh air ele, medi guard, even power ranger and power necro all fill the same role and can favorably stand versus tanky builds but they are out shined by teef. Out of those teef is the only one that can operate on its own without needing a baby sitter (usually a teef) thanks to its mobility and stealth. Mesmer comes close to competing with teef thanks to portal and stealth but mesmer is basically a “fair” teef because it actually has cool downs (it cant blink 3 or 4 times across the map to decap/escape/+1). Burst and power builds dont need more damage. Damage is all ready insane especially with sigil procs on auto attacks.

Frankly, I dont know how to make the other classes on par with teef without making teef unviable or downright breaking something.

Thief -> Mes -> everything else.

No zerk build is even remotely viable aside maybe medi guard and power nec ( arguably).

Other zerk builds simply bring NOTHING to the table when compared even to a simple Hambow ( fairly balanced build) or rabid engi ( slightly over the top build but still fairly balanced).

Stop saying it’s thieves/mes faults if you get rekt with your eviscerate war or fresh air ele.

They

just

suck

Get over it.

Phantaram.4816:

SobeSoul.6910:

How is ele traited for good damage?

All comps historically have had 2-3 people who stand on point for their team. In the past these were fully dedicated bunkers, like bunker guard, beastmaster ranger, or cantrips ele. These builds also took lots of rez utility making kills on each teams dps much rarer because of how many rezes you can get off. These days it’s just 2 cele bunkers on each NA team and EU is catching on to that style of only 2 bunkers.

In the cele meta things that stand on node actually do damage and this quickens the pace of the game by a lot.

The main difference is that when you take these dedicated bunkers its often not a bad idea to take 3 and let your thief/mesmer roam and do all the work. We’ve seen this on EU quite a lot and that is the source of the slow paced games that all time out, not the cele meta. The cele meta encourages the complete opposite.

I’ll say it now though. I personally like their being more damage in the game. Does it restrict what people used to play out of the meta like bunker guard mesmer etc? Yes. Is it too powerful? Yes. But it’s certainly not all bad and it’s something that should be worked around and not deleted.

Cele does need nerfed. The other classes/specs can be brought back. Regardless of how much cele has restricted out of the game, this is still some of the more diverse guildwars we have seen compared to the past although as of the last few weeks we’ve seen more and more of it.

What’s so “different” about stacking “X ellies”+ “X engies” with a thief ?

Cuz you know, it’s 80% of comps right now.

U can also do

2 eles-1 engi-1 nec-1 thief
2 eles-2 engi-1 thief
3 eles-2 engies
3 engis-2 eles
2 eles-1 engi-1 war-1 whatever

basically 2x ele, 1-2 x engies, rest is your choice doesn’t really matter, you could go moar engies-eles and wouldn’t even notice.

You knew in the past how important ( for example) blasting a water field was. Now with ele-engies comp there’s so much healing flying around that i literally have NEVER seen ( in all esl games) people blasting engies water fields to heal.

Cuz it doesn’t matter, there’s so much healing you don’ need more if it’s too risky.

Coordination is at historical min in Gw2 and it’s all thx to self reliant classes on celestial.

The game has gone downhill since warrior buffs: after that it was just a power creep race to make all meta builds indipendent from each other.

Boring.

and again……..

And this is, sadly, what commonly happens

ye amazing paint skillz

Now this is what should happen, for example

Justin ODell.9517:

Mrbig.8019:

It’s not like i don’t want to face them, it’s like i don’t want to face them if they’re FULL TEAM while i’m SOLO with other SOLOERS.

I get you. We’re collecting data for this entire ladder, and don’t think the ladder scoring rules are the only things we care about.

We’ve been discussing the issue and working on changes that should help with this. The only thing likely off the table (for now) is hard-filters.

Thx, at least knowing you’re working on it makes me rest with more ease.

I’ll tell you something, without knowing if it may help you or not.

When i duo/trio q with lower or slightly lower ranked players, match ups seems to be WAAAAAY better, prolly cuz it averages our MMR.

Justin ODell.9517:

Mrbig.8019:

In order to stop esl teams to go vs me ?

Hmm, your MMR is pretty high. Looking at your stats, it doesn’t seem odd though.

Is the issue that you’re getting matched with these players while queuing solo? Or is it that you don’t feel you should be matched with them at all?

Do you have a specific match you’d like me to look at? If so, do you remember the time?

It’s not like i don’t want to face them, it’s like i don’t want to face them if they’re FULL TEAM while i’m SOLO with other SOLOERS.

We can be the best solo players in the world ( we’re not), we still won’t be able to win vs very strong players with uber coordination and teamspeak.

Esl players duo-trio queing vs full solos ? Fair, we can do it ( we did few times)

Esl players super pugs with ts vs full soloers ? OMG pls no.

I get solo players in my team, sometimes duo q.

This proves there actually are solo players queing.

Point is what’s the point of putting strong solo players vs strong premades.

It makes no sense.

In order to stop esl teams to go vs me ?

it’s like we’re all decent and then matchmaking pairs us with esl teams superpugs with ts.

Having decent players in my teams for once is nice, really, but going vs full premades all the time ( mostly very strong players) is not.

So the question is, how much should i lose in order to drop my rating ?

Does gaining points on losses also awards u with rating increase ?

Just tell me so i can start afking

Justin ODell.9517:

DaveGan.8065:

so can you at least try to put them on different teams?

It does try, in fact the scoring on checks for duplicates at the team level. It’s just being overshadowed by other things.

Part of the problem is that mm is holding these players back, trying to find them matches where they’re unique… but eventually it gets overshadowed by other scoring rules (like the age score, which is used to compensate for long queue times) and they all dump into the same match.

Another part of the problem is we will not do anything about pre-mades with duplicate teams, other than the scoring penalty they take, but that only means longer queue times.

What about removing the totally dumb profession specific dailies ?

Do i really have to post pictures ?

Triple thieves comps everywhere.

Lachanche.6859:

Mrbig.8019:

Going solo is now impossible.

If you’re at any half decent MMR ( mind, n ot rank) you get paired with full high rated teams ( no, i’m not talking about bad teams)

had 3 premades ( baddies) first 3 matches, stomped them with randoms.

Next 3 matches, old top 100 teams ( got AFK twice in a row).

So if you’re any decent, bye bye solo q.

NOOOOO don’t give up i know you can do it, perseverance is the key, you must keep on keeping on !

lel i’m keeping on, it’s not like i care about it.

Just annoying to see my W/L ratio affected by totally loopsided matches.

Whatever, W/L ratio doesn’t even matter anymore, nothing really matters now tbh.

Justin ODell.9517:

Chaith.8256:

It’s simply because you lose points for DCing or character swapping.

The data makes no distinctions for the cause of a desertion, but yes this explains the discrepancy on the leaderboard. A future update will include desertions in the losses column.

Chaith.8256:

It won’t affect your win rate unless you don’t return, just leech the points.

Coming back won’t matter. You are awarded dishonor and flagged as a deserter the moment you disconnect. You’ll still get end-game rewards if you come back though.

Ah that explains something.

So thx to crap internet iìll have to win twice as much in order to rest ez.

Le sigh.

I know you can’t distinguish disconnects from rage quits, but pls try to work on a more comprehensive solution, it’s barely tollerable like this really and gives no reason to reconnect when you play solo.

Kharr.5746:

How do you know you were up against premades? I just got accused of being in a premade even though everyone on my team was a solo Q.

On the score screen, you can right click on each name as a solo Q and see if you get the option to “join group” or “invite to party”. If it says join, that person is on a group.

I dislike that some people think they are up against premades and blame the system. It’s hard to keep track of how often this is really happening.

Cuz i know them.

ez

Chase.8415:

Mrbig.8019:

You always get at least 1 point for winning, and lose 1 point for a loss.

If X top team had played 15 matches and losing none, they would be rank 1-5.

I don’t get the point of your post, if nothing it shows how flawed the system is.

That is incorrect, you can actually win points by losing games if the final score was close enough. You are only guaranteed one point for a win, but you can gain points or lose none on a loss depending on the probability of winning.

Lol if u get paired against a high ELO pug premade your match ends at the first wipe.

No way u can win points by losing in that case, cuz it will be 500-100 at best ( aside EXTREMELY RARE occasions).

Current leaderboard “toppleyers” are low elo players going premade and winning matches agains high elo pugs.

100% accurate