Both Noscoc and I cannot participate in the first WTS event so we won’t know who would win on even ground. Maybe in the next WTS.
LOL at backpack saying Caed can beat Sizer 1v1. Not trying to insult Caed but Sizer is much better at 1v1s and S/D vs D/P is equal.
I welcome the challenge, and I think Sizer does as well. ^^
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Thanks to DPS for hosting the NA Tournament of Glory. We appreciate your time and effort put into running the tournament and administrating throughout the event and hope to see another DPS tournament in the near future.
Caed
I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Jon in September 2013 at the PAX Invitational for Guild Wars 2 and I can honestly say he is one of the most passionate and dedicated people working at Arena Net. I know that the loss of Jon Sharp will affect the direction of the game and while I have both faith and hope for others to fill the shoes that he left behind I cannot help but think that this will be a set back for Arena Net. Jon has put countless hours into pushing this game forward; listening to players both through direct contact and through forums. He pushed people to think outside the box and tried to come up with innovative solutions to problems so that Guild Wars 2 could set itself apart from other games.
I realize that I may make things sound grandeur, but after getting to know the Arena Net staff I can see how large of an impact that the individuals on the PvP team have on the rest of the company, and that they helped tremendously to try to get Guild Wars 2 PvP where it is today. Now there are those who complain about balance, lack of game modes, certain maps, and various other things but when it comes down to it this game has – by far- the most innovative and dynamic combat system in any MMO and possibly one of the best in any game (at least that I’ve played), and I attribute this in a large part to Jon and the other members of the PvP team.
I think one of the Jon’s strongest traits was his empathy. He extremely sincere and compassionate, and one of the more emotionally intelligent people that I’ve met; something that I personally believe is one of the most important things in life. I have some stories from my time in Seattle but this is not the time nor place to share those. I have looked upon those experiences with fond memories however, and it’s given me a different perspective on what goes on at Arena Net and the people that work there and Jon – like the rest of the PvP team – is extremely passionate about what he does, and he does it extremely well.
To Jon: You will be missed, and while you and I have had differences in the past you have been nothing but respectful, courteous, engaging, thoughtful, and kind. I appreciate everything that you have done for me and for the game. Your leave is a grave loss to the community, but I wish you the best and that you bring everything you have to your next area of work. I have no doubt that you will find success if you give even half the amount of work and passion that you’ve put into this company and game.
All the best,
Caed
Skyhammer is actually my favorite map.
And no, I’m not being sarcastic/facetious.
-Caed
I never said it’s broken, i just said it’s completely useless for a thief as the class has no bundles by itself.
Also, on a much earlier iteration of the game, back in alpha, the steal skill worked as a bundle (just look at the thief steal video in the class page) thus the trait is NOT working as intended anymore, it’s just terribly outdated.
You don’t know what working as intended means, so I’m not going to waste my time. On a side note Improvisation is one of the strongest traits in the game.
Cheers,
Caed
Requires far more effort to play effectively, however offers more utility and more options for team play. The reward is a small bit higher than S/D in my opinion, but the risk is substantially higher. D/P does not need buffs – it’s just not as easy to play, nor do I want it to be personally. There’s very little room for error but the weapon set has good outplay potential. It’s also good in team fights if used correctly – pressure people with stealth forcing them to go back to their home node, if they don’t then go and decap; if they do then you can do a good amount of damage and clean up a team fight if you position properly and choose your targets well. All of this requires a good team and good communication/coordination. S/D is a more efficient solo queue build and still extremely good in high level sPvP (it is better than D/P for the majority of players). Until you learn to play D/P you will feel fairly ineffective, and it’s not a build that’s easy to learn (however it’s not to difficult to kill bad players with – it’s the good players that will make you feel useless). In essence; low skill floor and one of the highest skill ceilings/caps. It’s a balanced build.
There are people who will disagree with me but that’s my 2 cents.
Edit; Spelling errors, hopefully soon I’ll have internet and can stop using my phone to type.
(edited by Narcarsis.5739)
I will submit a video of all known reasons that Steal bugs once I get internet, as well as finish my guide (this is slightly more difficult). Should have internet come Tuesday – I hope.
Edit; once again spelling due to using a phone.
(edited by Narcarsis.5739)
The trait isn’t broken. “Bundles” refer to things such as Ice Bow, Fiery Greatsword, Lightning Hammer, etc. It works as intended.
People don’t seem to realize how Steal works at the moment so I’m going to try to explain – keep in mind I’m on a phone so bear with me please.
Previously Steal was an ability that works in two parts. First the damage portion was applied through an LoS (which was later removed) and if you had a straight line to your target within range then it would apply the mechanics of stealing an ability, Mug, Kleptomaniac, Thrill of the Crime, Bountiful Theft, and Sleight of Hand (as well as the 1 point trait in Deadly Arts which I can’t remember the name of off the top of my head, but it’s the poison application). After this or would attempt to teleport which didn’t always work. However the important thing to not was that the ability was still reliable to use because you could always control the damage and interrupt regardless of whether the teleport buffed or not. This made the teleport failure bearable.
After the patch they changed how the mechanic of Steal works. Previously it did the damage in a straight line – regardless of LoS (which is silly, and should never have been changed) and then would teleport you to your target. Now the ability attempts to teleport first, and then has a small radius of about 160 around you that it will trigger the other benefits of using Steal (Mug, SoH, etc). This is where all the problems come in. With the mass of teleport bugs in the game it renders the entire ability unreliable and useless at times. If your teleport bugs then you miss Steal – pretty straightforward. But it gets worse. If you Steal to someone as they teleport away then you will teleport to the spot they were at previously and be out of the 160 radius range, missing Steal. If someone moves an enemy as you Steal (Magnet Pull, Illusionary Wave, etc) you will teleport to where they where and miss your Steal. While the timings for these things are small and seem improbable they happen extremely frequently (multiple times a game) and can be very frustrating.
On a separate note Steal should be reverted to using the other mechanics prior to teleporting but not be able to be used through LoS. This adds reliable counterplay as well as making Steal a reliable ability again, and I cannot comprehend why they would change it from that. Hopefully that clears up any confusion to what the bug actually is and how it works.
Caed
Edit; Some spelling errors caused by using a phone – RIP internet.
(edited by Narcarsis.5739)
Zoose decided to leave. Might have an idea for putting something together but he left 1 day before sign ups and I don’t get internet until Tuesday so I don’t know.
Typing on a phone is 3hard5me
(edited by Narcarsis.5739)
I will be available as a replacement for teams in the ToG/WTS should the need arise and I feel comfortable playing with the 4 members of said team.
Message on forums for more details.
Honestly the only reason people still play the game is because the PvP is the antithesis of bad. Most the players who left the game left because of the lack of incentive to play. If you don’t like to play the game then leave.
I think he meant that there were no news about Guild Wars 2 (as in nothing about anything new in Guild Wars 2) rather than no coverage for the tournament.
How is announcing three $50,000 tournaments not news about Guild Wars 2? It’s not the Gamescom tournament coverage, it’s a completely different tournament with cash prizing.
Was Gamescom a success?
i guess not
i dont care bout e-sports and i did not watch tournament but gamescom is all about NEWS
Devs present their new shiny games or extensions and in all gamescom news on all websites i did check on the weekend i found absolut nothing about Arenanet and Guildwars 2. No News. Noone care bout them. So NO i dont think it was a success.
As a side note the change to Flanking Strike could be interpreted as a buff and increases the skill cap of the weapon set (where as the change to Black Powder only affects the skill floor since it’s rather straight forward). Players who learn how to use the set can choose to use flanking defensively or offensively with no punishment (where as before you would be forced to go into Larcenous Strike). Being able to detarget and use flanking to increase evade up-time is not something that I would consider a net nerf.
No, good thieves never spam 3, bad thieves will keep spamming 3
So what’s the issue? If you don’t spam your Flanking then you can ensure that you will hit it. You also have an immobilize on sword 2 to set up Flanking Strike. The nerf affects bad thieves and punishes spamming.
Overall the changes to thief affect the lower end (skill floor) and barrier of entry to the class, and do nothing to good players. If you don’t spam 3 then you can be patient enough to use it when you know it will hit and set it up yourself. You have more than enough options to do so and the people who are whining are players that refuse to improve their gameplay because they want everything handed to them.
Same goes for the Black Powder change.
Hi
I’ve noticed that when feared or knockdown, or any other CC.. pressing F1 on thief acts like a break stun… this isn’t in the skill description.. noticed mainly on the land giant.. if your too far for a steal.. you’ll break the knockdown or fear and have that 5 sec recharge.. Is the skill supposed to be a ‘break stun’ also?
S.
It’s always been like this. However it’s difficult to make use of and almost always better to actually use on a target rather than put it on cooldown. But yes, if you steal to something out of range while CC’d steal will stun break you – it’s a very old bug.
Cheers,
Caed
Don’t really care about kitten battles, trying to figure out if I should invest my time into something. Please answer my original question or create a different thread.
Hit 5 stand in field hit 2 repeat
I will refrain from being rude to you Mr.SalonQualityHair. Bear in mind it would not be difficult.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Curious-Caed/first#post4213411
Please respond if interested.
Just putting out a feeler here – trying to get an idea of how many people want me to make a guide for D/P 2/6/0/0/6
I wouldn’t call this comprehensive but nevertheless it has decent information and is useful for newer players.
Thanks for helping run the ToL. I will say I’ve participated in almost every tournament in this game on the NA side and out of all of them this one was the most organized and fluid one I’ve been in. Well done.
I know the build differences, I stand by what I said. It’s not necessarily a shot towards anyone but more of a compliment to Tage.
It’s shots fired when you say that Guards are pretty easy to kill 1v1 as a Thief except Tage, when that’s not really the case. I can’t imagine even a decent AH guard being killable for you in any sort of reasonable time frame, and I’ll back that up with duels anytime.
It’s more that Tage doesn’t die, at all. Everyone else does.
I know the build differences, I stand by what I said. It’s not necessarily a shot towards anyone but more of a compliment to Tage.
A moderator edited out the other part of my previous post where I explained that the only way to simulate the same endurance regeneration as an Acrobatics thief would be to sit and auto attack a target golem constantly. In no way is that realistic to actual game play as you would be focused and killed. An Acrobatics thief also takes Signet of Agility, which has too much synergy with Feline Grace, amounting to a series of extra dodges. This can be further abused with Sigil of Energy. By no means does a Trickery thief have the same amount of endurance regeneration as an Acrobatics thief in any competitive environment.
A lyssa proc with twice the boon duration on half the CD. Such balance.
Still, I agree — there are other issues with the mesmer/thief match-up that are more important than consume plasma.
I would say if it’s considered that Consume Plasma is too strong even compared to Lyssa (due to the lack of the condition clear) drop the duration of the boons that are already 10 seconds to 5 seconds and it could still be used intelligently. The main use for it is stability which is inherently 3 seconds anyway. The protection and regeneration are also nice but 5 seconds is more than enough time to use to either eat or stall a Mesmer’s burst (depending on how smart they are).
Vigor on Bountiful theft has already been nerfed. The problem lies with the stolen abilities you get in a lot of match ups. You’re suggesting to split up steal into even more traits when I already take 6 for steal alone:
-Serpent’s Touch
-Mug
-Kleptomaniac
-Thrill of the Crime
-Bountiful Theft
-Sleight of HandD/P thief doesn’t have anywhere close to the endurance of an acrobatics thief.
The stolen skills are what causes thief to be so strong in a lot of 1v1 match ups. I’ve played the class since beta and each stolen skill is imperative to winning a 1v1.Thrill of the crime, bountiful theft, and sleight of hand are like having 6 traits not 3. Sleight of hand is 2 grandmasters together.
D/P DOES have as much endurance regen as a acrobatics thief.
Acrobatics Vigor uptime: 6.5/15 = 43.3% PLUS 15 returned on feline grace.
D/P Trickery Vigor uptime: 10/21.5 = 46.5% PLUS 10 returned on the extremely fast autoattack.The traitline needs to be rebalanced so you actually have to make choices. Do I want to be able to stun on steal? Or do I want an extremely low cooldown? Do I want to be offensive and steal boons so I stun? Or do I want to be defensive and survive longer?
I know Trickery is your baby but it’s for the betterment of the game.
The choices are made between damage and Improvisation (Deadly Arts) or Sleight of Hand. When the Sleight of Hand patch came out I chose to drop the damage for the consistent utility of Sleight of Hand versus the RNG of Improvisation. The reason for that lies with how the meta shifted. Conditions and bunkers moved into the meta in place of burst. If this weren’t the case I would still be playing 25/30/0/0/15. The weakness and extra damage would mitigate the damage/evades from the other team and help with coordinated burst spikes. However as a thief you are generally the only burst on the team, and there isn’t much burst on the other team. The new steal is required to survive in team fights and to bring any use to your team without falling over in two seconds.
The problem that lies with it is how broken the stolen abilities are. An 8 second water field every 21.5 seconds. A blind spam/reflect for 3.5 seconds every steal cooldown. A 10 second chill every steal cooldown, which can be saved for the next steal and stacked up to 20 seconds of chill. A 4 second daze that can be chained again up to 8 seconds.
These things are problems in 1v1 scenarios, however in a team fights they are easily covered by proper team play and without Steal how it is thief wouldn’t survive past the initial burst in a team fight. Tone down the stolen skills and you will balance the game.
(edited by Moderator)
1 vs 1
Whirling Axe -> Dodge
Healing Spring -> Decoy them out, or use your bow and blow them away, if they dont wont to go out.
Ectoplasma -> Who cares, 5 secs are nothing and Mesmer have so many skills against boons.
Throw Gunk-> Good dmg/effect, in a very small area, but only if the thief can hold you in, on the other hand a very good way to break their stealth.
Mace Head Crack-> A very dangerous skill, but guardians have enough skills to dodge, block or break this.
Ice Shard Stab-> For me, the only good items beside WA, which thieves have and very dangerous, if you have nothing that remove conditions.
But with your 20 weapon- + utilityskills, it shouldn’t have big influence.Skull Fear-> Strong, but only against near enemy. That mean, the long execution time, give you enough time, for a CC and make them very invulnerable for directdmg.
Blinding Tuft-> Helpful for stealthbuilds, lesser for Non-stealth builds.
Whirling Axe – Lasts longer than one dodge, which you should have already forced before using. You also have teleports if necessary to prevent kiting.
Healing Spring – Please speak English.
Ectoplasm – I won’t say who cares, but I feel this one is fine.
Throw Gunk – You can, and should, hold them in Throw Gunk. But this is another that I feel is fine due to the small area.
Mace Crack – Good players will count dodges, force stab, and count cooldowns. If you land both successively you land an 8+ second daze. If you miss you messed up, not so much the Guardian. Good Guardians will capitalize on your mistakes and stay alive forever – the only Guardian I’ve seen do that is Tage. Everyone else is rather easy (or moderately easy) to kill quickly.
Ice Shard – Lasts far too long. Again it’s very easy to force and count dodges. You use this after they leave Water Attunement and cover it with poison. If you do it correctly you will ensure that they can’t clear it by saving another Steal to interrupt their Ether Renewal if they have it.
Skull Fear – This one is okay. Very long cast time, easy to see. It has counter play regardless of if the Thief can teleport to you due to the visible animation. However it can be used in stealth very effectively. I still don’t see an issue with this ability.
Blinding Tuft – Helpful always. However this is also fine.
Honestly, the problem lies in Trickery, it needs to be rebalanced. The consistent ranged teleport bursts makes it way too strong and it offers way too much (D/P trickery thief has as much endurance regen as an acrobatics thief) Most of the professions stolen skills are balanced apart from Ranger (and ele because chill effects attunements). The warrior one is a bug.
Personally I’d like to see maybe sleight of hand split into 2 traits, one for the cooldown one for the daze (and reduce the daze to 1/4 so its used as an actual interrupt) and a reduction on the vigor uptime.
Vigor on Bountiful theft has already been nerfed. The problem lies with the stolen abilities you get in a lot of match ups. You’re suggesting to split up steal into even more traits when I already take 6 for steal alone:
-Serpent’s Touch
-Mug
-Kleptomaniac
-Thrill of the Crime
-Bountiful Theft
-Sleight of Hand
D/P thief doesn’t have anywhere close to the endurance of an acrobatics thief.
The stolen skills are what causes thief to be so strong in a lot of 1v1 match ups. I’ve played the class since beta and each stolen skill is imperative to winning a 1v1.
-Warrior whirl is a necessary defensive ability, and I agree with the change to the mechanic of the whirl finisher.
-Guardian daze is required to even kill a good bunker guardian in the first place, or to mitigate pressure from a DPS guardian.
-Wasting the Engineer throw makes the 1v1 ten times harder, as it provides zone control, a very good combo field, and a large amount of damage over time – as well as condition application.
-Ranger tree is required to increase sustain and reduce pressure from ranger conditions.
-Thief steal is extremely helpful in both the blind application and the extended stealth duration, letting you out stealth the other thief if used properly. This can be used offensively or defensively.
-The Ele ice pick greatly increases the pressure onto the Ele, while reducing the pressure onto you (counter pressure). Wasting this skill will cause you to lose in most situations.
-The Mesmer steal grants stability at a lower duration than the other boons. You use this to cover a cast (Hide in Shadows), protect a refuge (stability/aegis), or to mitigate burst (protection/vigor). The boons have a different duration (compared to Lyssa runes which provide 10s of every boon in the game). Stability on this only lasts 3 seconds.
-Missing the Necro fear pretty much means you will die. You need the counter pressure and damage or to burn the Necromancer’s cooldown in order to shift the fight into your favor. Missing this means the Necro has free reign to pressure you in the four seconds you’d have otherwise.
Each stolen ability is necessary to win their respective 1v1 and is extremely good against those classes. However some are over the top (I’ve already laid those out) and should be adjusted to help even up the skill match up.
Would generally agree with this. The stolen ability from Warriors is being changed with patch but the rest are untouched. I have made suggestions about these abilities in the past;
-Reduce the application rate of Whirling Axe whirl finisher or reduce the duration but up the damage to retain the same overall dps while diminishing the effect of the blind finisher. Either of these will allow more counter play through timing attacks with the Warrior Longbow fire field or through kiting.
-Reduce the duration of the Healing Seed stolen ability from Rangers by 50%. Currently the tree causes the match up to be completely one sided. It should be used during precise moments to attempt to clear certain conditions as well as allow a limited amount of finishers.
-The Thief stolen ability is fine, it gives a short stealth that is usually used for a Surprise Shot, maybe an occasional Backstab or to cover a heal ability.
-The Engineer stolen skill is currently fine as well, it’s duration and radius cause it to be easily avoided and are only useful when utilized properly with CC.
-The Elementalist stolen ability is arguably okay, it has a short range and a decent tell/cast time causing it to be easily avoided – however when it lands it could be considered too powerful.
-The Guardian stolen ability could be nerfed by 1-1.5 seconds. While it has a large tell and cast time it is far too long of a CC. If saved and used at the right times you can chain 8 second dazes on guardians.
I’m not sure what to what to do about Mesmer’s steal, as I find their stolen ability to be fairly balanced. The issues with the match up lie elsewhere.
Engineer is strong against thieves. If you keep track of when they heal and use their Shadowstep you can condi load them at the correct time for a quick down. Use LoS and time your blinds as best you can. If you manage to land Supply Crate or the immobilize from it then you should always win, if you cannot then it may be detrimental as Trick Shot will bounce off the turrets.
DPS Guardians are extremely effective against thieves. They have ample access to blinds, blocks (Aegis/Shelter/Focus O-H), burning, retaliation, counter-burst, sustain, invulnerability, and a decent amount of mobility with meditation/Great sword leap. It’s a very unforgiving match up for the thief.
Necromancer’s aren’t a counter, but if they get the jump on a thief then they can drop them quickly with relative ease.
As in all match ups it’s a good idea to learn the habits of the person playing the class and read them (anticipate what they’ll do). Any class can beat a thief but from playing the class those are the most difficult match ups in my opinion.
While you bring up many valid points I dislike forums so I will keep this brief.
In regard to spamming abilities. Thief is one of the few classes (Necro, Engineer, Warrior) where you can actively spam skills. This leads to a low skill floor, allowing players entry into the class at a level more proficient than if they were to enter on say an Elementalist. However it’s far from efficient and does very little against skilled players. Thieves that spam abilities are using the correct tools at the correct times, are extremely predictable, easy to counter, and in most cases free kills. A good thief will use the right skill at the right time, with little hesitation or repetition.
As for the initiative lost (or not lost) on interrupt. The initiative system should cost the thief initiative at the start of the cast to promote proper thought and intelligent game play rather than spamming. This will punish bad or new thieves for wasting skills instead of using them at proper times or covering important casts with blinds/dazes/stuns/stealth. As for putting the skill on cooldown, I do not think that is a good idea. It will completely shut down the class in certain aspects and will go against the class resource system (initiative vs cooldowns).
-Caed
well u know if they high ranked players just play together u know its not about competition its about farming.. if they would want compition they would split in two teams.
All I read was “5/2=10”
Please go back to math class.
I am making this post in response to Countless.
To start with I’d like to compare casting this game with casting a different game. One that is known as a very popular esport; League of Legends. The difference between GW2 and LoL is that LoL is an extremely simple game. It’s easy to play and easy for people to grasp what is going on. On top of that the course of a League match is stretched out to the better end of an hour. This gives more time for casters to explain these simple concepts and mechanics to people who are spectating the game.
Guild Wars 2 is far more complicated and takes place in 1/4 to 1/2 the time that a standard league match lasts. This leads to more information needing to be delivered but a smaller window in which to do so, making it hard to choose what critical pieces of a match to convey to the audience without leaving out too much. The game is far more “technical” than League of Legends. As for precision, not so much. League is fairly consistent to cast – Guild Wars 2 is not. It leads to something that is more complicated, challenging, and intricate than League of Legends and therefore is harder to cast.
Calling out Blu on downstate makes no sense. It’s an integral part of the game that requires attention in team fights. No matter what the goal of a team fight is to wipe the other team, and that goal requires going through downstate in which the body of that player is either cleaved, revived, rallied through the death of an enemy in downstate, or stomped out. No matter what it is downstate pulls the focus of a team, ally or enemy, and is something that should not be ignored. I can agree with you that Blu needs to address WHY someone enters downstate, but ignoring downstate is down right idiotic when it’s such a prevalent portion of the game.
Furthermore Blu’s rate of speech is actually quite understandable. If you replay anyone at x2 speed 100 times over then of course their words will blur together. You manipulated the video to enhance what you called incomprehensible speech, but didn’t actually provide a case where you absolutely could not make out what Blu was saying. To further counter this point Guild Wars 2 requires a shout caster to convey a lot of information. While I can agree that Blu needs to work on what he’s saying in order to be more efficient I think that the way he delivers information is extremely good. I have never had trouble understanding what he says, and most of his viewers would feel the same way.
As for GvG, it’s completely irrelevant to any sort of would be competitive play this game offers. I don’t even feel that I need to address this because it’s so far off topic that you’re obviously just trying to take shots at Blu.
Countless made arguments that he could twist to his favor without providing any hard evidence to Blu’s incapability to cast this game. While I agree the game is too complex in a lot of areas, he picked the wrong way to approach the subject. Blu is good at casting certain aspects of the game and in combination with players who can add valuable information and reasoning, like Helseth or Doyourbestbear, the two would cover the majority of what is required to convey the proper aspects of the game while keeping viewers entertained.
Put down that blind field so they miss half their pistol whip and the damage is pretty low also.
Just no… Black Powder will do nothing to them, don’t waste the initiative unless you need stealth to cover your heal or you’re timing a heartseeker at the end of their pistol whip so you can get a backstab in.
You said it yourself… I just didn’t post the rest of it as its kind of obvious to the d/p rotation. And yes, it does lower their damage as they will miss a few of the hits and sometimes they miss the stun at the beginning if you got it down in time, unless they are still in their haste phase in which you need to dodge away / stun break.
Go learn what pistol whip does