Guild Wars 2

Kill shot has a base strength of 792 at full adrenaline, backstab has a base of 806. But backstab combo also has mug and CnD, making it a 1263 damage combo in less than .5sec, compared to 792 in 1.75sec. So no, killshot “burst” is definitely not higher.

I’d personally like to see more types of pvp than just point capturing, maybe some good old fashion death matches? And maybe some multiway battles like hero’s ascent in gw1. Variety is always nice ^^ Of course it won’t eliminate bunkers and metas, but at least it’ll be different for each type of pvp, rather than one build being best for all.

I’m not talking about event champion mobs, but rather champion level mobs that just spawn around the world, such as the snow troll. Is there any point in fighting them at all? Some of them guard chests, but you don’t have to defeat them to open it, you can just freeze or cripple them to open it. From what I’ve seen, their drops tend to actually be worse than regular mobs, its usually just a white. And worst of all, the diminishing returns system seems to count combat time, not just kills. So by the champ mob is dead, I have 10ish minutes of straight combat, so I’m already receiving porous bones and other nerfed drops. I can’t really see their purpose in the game. So the question is, what’s the point in fighting them, do they have some sort of rare drops that make killing them worthwhile? I

I do understand that, its just that usually when people ask for something like this, they want something stronger. If its just a flashy version of a current elite, then there’s nothing wrong with it, but I also doubt it’d get much use if it’s weaker.

My bad for assuming you guys wanted something stronger or with different utility though.

lol nerfed to the ground? mug deals 1/2 bs damage, CnD deals 5/8 bs damage. Before this “nerf” it would be 5/8+.5+1.5=2.625xbs damage + any heartseekers. Now its (5/8+.5+1)1.15=2.44xbs damage+ two heartseeker’s extra damage.
At less than 50% heartseeker does .6x bs damage, at less than 25% its .8x bs damage. so at >50% 2.44+1.2(.15)=2.624x bs damage from our 4 skill combo, at >25% its 2.44+1.6(.15)=2.684x bs damage. Note that these only take the extra damage from heartseeker, not heartseeker itself, in order to find the signet’s contribution.

Results of Assassin’s signet “nerf”:
CnD+Mug+BS burst w/o heartseekers: 93% original burst damage
CnD+Mug+BS burst+ extra damage on two >50% heartseekers: 100% of original damage
CnD+Mug+BS burst +two >extra damage on 25% heartseekers:102% of original damage

This means overall, the 4 skill combo will be hitting the same amount or slightly more than before the “nerf”.

Edit: Oh and before you qq and say that 7% is a lot in terms of bursting, elementalists were nerfed to 54% of ALL their damage because they could use a 4 second burst.

You didn’t have to grind 500+ for skills in gw1. It usually only took around 10min to capture an elite

Chi Malady.2015:

Anet has been clear about their intentions since day one.

GW2 is a game based on skill, not time played. Just because you have more free time than someone else doesn’t entitle you to better gear.

If you read the post you’d see that its not better. It’s just like carrying 5 weapons., that’s it. Same stats and stat combinations.

While we’re on this though, how about allowing us to dye them? Lets face it, a lot of people don’t like the rainbow effect but would still like to be able to show off their wealth, so being able to choose the color scheme would be a very nice plus and it’s a completely visual addition.

Because bunkers have very low dps.

pahldus.1678:

Elementalists have the highest damage output and 2nd highest burst damage, plus with earth available almost all the time(save for when it is on cooldown) they also have high survivability just in a different way.

Wrong on the first two accounts. Thieves, mesmers, engineers and warriors definitely have better burst than us, maybe some other professions too. Our lack of quickness being the handicap for bursting. Elementalist damage also definitely isn’t the highest. It used to be during the betas, but our damage is only 54% of what is was back then, that’s why complaints about our slow kills were so common when the game was bit newer. Daggers are okay though, but staff dps is just awful.
High survivability is very true though, especially if we spec for it.

I don’t see why people are bashing on this. It would only save 4 bag slots out of 160, hardly an advantage. Also, for those saying its just for the skin, it also changes skill animations, so its more than that already. I think its a great idea, since its just a convenient feature that lets you keep the skin no matter what stat combo you need (without a ton of transmutes).

On a separate note, if I transmute a legendary to a better stat combination with a stone, I keep the new animations right? (I think they’re part of the skin, but not sure.)

I’m against this because it would give legendaries an actual advantage over exotics.

While technically hearts are just a do this x times quest, I like them a lot more because they allow me to choose which way to fill them and give various options. Much better than the old one option set repetitions quest imo.
There is still a lot do after lvl 80, I agree that the amount of content is good, but that’s not the only reason I’d want more lvl 80 areas.

As far as end game content goes, I would like a little more. This isn’t because I think there’s nothing to do, but rather because I like having more challenging content. It’s probably a result of playing gw1 for so long, where the majority of content was max level (which was only 20). This means that as we got to higher zones, the content got more challenged because the creatures kept leveling and getting better skills/AI while we were stuck at 20, meaning players actually had to get better. Going back to other areas is pretty easy, even if I’m downleveled, so it’d be nice to get some more challenging pve that I can do in parts, rather than a committed 4 hours like Arah.

I assume normal trading isn’t available because having a trade feature would result in higher value items being traded in person to avoid taxes.

About 1g an hour.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triforge_Pendant

You still get loot and kill count if they die from a fall. It’s just a way for them to save repair costs without taking anything from you. If you’re not getting exp/loot, you’re either not tagging them, or they’re surviving.

Perma stealthing is possible, but useless outside of holding a point in wvw. Just use blackpowder and heartseeker through it with the trait that returns initiative each time you stealth. Problem? Your initiative is going into keeping stealth up rather than fighting.

Ruufio.1496:

To be like Dante from Devil May Cry with dual pistols.
Unfortunately Daggers were better

Try pistol bursting (probably gonna be the new backstab after the nerf)

I actually went back and checked through wiki’s history. Literally every weapon skill except for 18 were nerfed. Arcane blast&wave, signet of water and air, Glyph of elemental harmoy, and finally tornado damage were nerfed. Two traits as well:stop drop and roll and cleansing water. Basically, all damage is reduced to about 54%. .

That’s a grand total of 69 skills and 2 traits nerfed

DanH.5879:

courtesy of the thieves guild and all the nerfs we took so far.

You know, I actually missed this part the first time I read it. I’d like to point something out to all the thieves whining about how you guys get nerfed so much: You’ve only have 4 skills nerfed.

You can use shadowstep with CnD the same way you would use steal+CnD, not sure if that’s worth using it up though, and its also harder. I usually find myself using it as an escape if I don’t think I’ll win. For escaping, there are 3 different ways I use it. I nearly always combine it with the bow warp when running away.
1.Use it normally. point and activate to warp away.
2. Use it as above, but then after some travel time while the enemy is chasing, I’ll stealth and use return.
3This only works for bursting.Use it before I actually start fighting. Then use return if I feel it won’t turn out well.The advantage to this is the 3 condition removal.
Sometimes as a gap closer or to begin my fight to pull of a CnD, then use the steal CnD 3 sec later.

There might also be potential using it with ranged weapons to warp back and forth, but I haven’t actually tried that.

Baz.7305:

Wow…more cry babies. This is a good tactic to hold off zergs if you dont have enough people in wvw. They could easily go around AOEing the place and find the thief. Why dont they just get rid of the thief class completley? Stop throwing fits and play the game. My main isnt a thief and I am tired of everyone complaining. Think trade offs….there are always some to every class.

Its also a very strong tactic when you have the same amount of people, or when you have more people. Yes they could go around aoeing everything, but since this trick can be done on a tank thief, it would take quite a number of hits, thus quite a number of people. Just because 20 people can deal with it doesn’t mean its balanced. That thief can stop far more people than a single person should be able to.
Besides, theres a good chance a zerg isn’t going to be able to respond very quickly, as we already know from the CnD stallers.
Why should a single person be able to stall so many? Besides, I doubt this is intended, or they wouldn’t have fixed it for spvp.

I use 20/20/0/0/30, using knights and soldier’s equips. 3.1k attack, 43% crit, 2.55k armor, 13k hp. Very few problems. The most important thing is making sure your gear good. If you can’t afford lvl 80 exotics, you could try going with lvl 78s.

When it comes to mobs, a very important thing is using your ccs. Also, its best to start off with a battle with a burst.
The old drag tooth+phoenix+fire grab for sceptor, put a ring of fire up first if you want might. Keep up rock barrier, dust devil is nice blind, water heals are important as always.
On staff, eruption, ice spike, frozen ground, lava font. Burst heals from combos are very useful.
Daggers:burning speed, (optional: drake’s breath) ring of fire, arcane wave, fire grab, earth quake, churning earth.
Shocking aura and earth quake are your biggest friends, frozen burst is ok cc as well. Of course the heals are important.
The vigor on crit trait is very nice so you can dodge more (and use evasive arcana more)
And of course, never stop moving.

Considering backstab build is all about surprise and quick kills, why not just leave? He’s a bunker, so he can’t really chase you down and kill you. A bunker’s job is to just waste your time anyway (usually while holding a point though…)

TL:DR Eles have one good build, the rest are still weak.

Duckzor.4327:

Buchfink.8613:

You didn’t build for duels. You didn’t really use skills (except for the 1). You ran in every AoE attack. And all of this is suddenly proof that eles are overpowered? Do you want to see how an ele fares vs. a thief when he just uses the auto-attacks?

What..? Can you read..seriously. I made this thread to question why eles are considered weak by their players. I never said they were OP…

The following phrase is what people could misinterpret as eles are OP.

Eles have no reason to complain in my eyes, this build is just an example on how they can be insanely good

First of all, I’d like to say, its not that thieves are OP, backstab was just bursting too well (compare to ele burst which was nerfed into oblivion). Too well as in too fast, not too much damage. And for many other builds (not just thieves) quickness is the problem.

Second of all, yes bunkers are very strong, especially elementalist bunkers.

However, that doesn’t make the class OK. Why? Its pretty much all they can do. That’s why people say they’re so bad. If they want to do something, they just can’t do as well as other classes, unless its a tank build. It’s not an issue of L2P (bunkers are pretty easy to use), its that people want to be able to do what they want.

A lot of the complaint is also from PvE, where bunkering doesn’t really get much done for the most part. The main problem is just the lack of damage compared to our survivability, when our fire and arcane damage was halfed we didn’t get compensation in buffs anywhere else. (If we don’t spec for it, survivability is very low. Light armor, low health, and no inherent defensive abilities like stealth or clones to make up for it.)

The fact that we have aoe doesn’t make up for it much(stronger classes, mainly war, also have aoes, but do much higher damage) except events, where very large aoes are needed. For normal situations, we’re kill things slowish and our weapons are stuck with a certain range, no ability to swap to higher range spells. And most of all, our combos just take more effort in order to dish out the same effect as other classes.

Basically, we’re a little forced into tankier builds just like thief is forced into(?) more gimmicky builds.

We’re certainly unplayable, far from it. All we need is slight buffing across the board, minus tanking (its reasonable to nerf bunkers imo). Dagger buffs were a good start to what eles want to see on the rest of their weapon. Of course they’re are other things, but you’re better off posting in the ele forums if you want to see all the reasons.

edit: Also, I hate when people say “just dodge” for back stab. No thief should be backstabing without either devourer’s venom or basilik’s venom on their bar. If you say stun break, then ok, but dodging isn’t possible.

I agree with him, bunkers shouldn’t be around. But please to give back at least part of our damage.

Piriel.5197:

I’d rather call this tread “Proof of concept that if people know what they’re doing, even something that seems overpowered is not really that hard to kill”.

Wrong! Completely wrong. It’s “overpowered” in the sense that it would take such a large number of people to counter it, and even then it takes a bit of time. Of course you might think “so what?” But a single person shouldn’t have that much stalling power against 20~50+
edit: Just to make it clear, its the fact that so many people have to cooperate to fix one person that makes it imbalanced.
Also, she’s not useless because she’s stopping the point capture, thus very much having a use.
Of course, as others mentioned, an easy fix would be for stealthed players not to count for adding to/stopping the control, just like in spvp. Outside this one purpose, I don’t think this will be too much of a problem.

Joasher, while it doesn’t stop sleath,DoT damage does allow you to see where the enemy is from the red numbers coming off him.

BS thieves don’t fix bunkers.
Though I do agree that bunkers need some serious reworks as well.

I don’t think they’re worth grinding for, but if I had the money I would get the staff.
I’m going to play the game normally until most of the required wealth and materials find their way into my bank. Once I’m closer I might grind out the rest though or just keep playing normally. Of course that will take a long time, but it’ll work out eventually if I don’t spend money on other nonessentials. Good thing the 42k karma robes are my favorite

Because warrior’s burst takes 4.5sec without quicnkess, whereas thief burst takes .5sec without quickness. Bull’s is also a much slower gap closer, making it easier to dodge (even with quickness).
Anyway, Anet said they were taking a look at all burst damage, not just thief.

Bladetrail is clearly glitched at the moment. Normally it only crits up to 4k, and that’s near the 10th hit. Problem/glitch is that it keeps getting stronger each time you spam it, allowing to reach uber damage.
edit: its also not supposed to hit more than 5 people like other aoes… obviously not “working as intended”

Are you seriously counting a blade trail bug as high burst? It doesn’t get that high without the glitch, even if you go full glass cannon on light armor.

I think additional power/toughness should just have diminishing returns. That way putting everything into power or toughness won’t be so efficient, thus hindering the any use of tanks or cannons.

To answer the original question…
No I don’t believe this is an intended mechanic. In spvp a thief those not contribute to a point capture while in stealth, so it was probably not supposed to be able to contribute to stealthed point capping in wvw either.

This has probably been suggested before, but I didn’t find it in the first 20 pages of suggestions and the search function doesn’t have an option to only display thread titles.

I think we should have the option of taking a utility skill in our elite slot.
In gw1 you could put every skill in any slot. This meant you could have a full bar without even using an elite.

As it is now, we have very little choice with our elites and they’re nearly all high cd skills. I feel that allowing an option to use a utility skill in our last slot would add a lot of variety to our build options and would allow us to spread out the performance spike that an elite skill grants by because a utility skill can be used more frequently.

There are many times where I would rather have another utility in place of my elite skill, and some others probably have similar feelings. This wouldn’t force people to do it, it’d just give everyone a nice option and allow more adaptability.

Shadow step turns into shadow return for the next 10sec. and I already did explain, its the 14k burst in>.5sec, supplemented by the high mobility that allows fairly easy escapes in case of failures.

I use 20% less cd is on the signet too.

Venom effect duration is 2/3 its recharge, traited that’s only a 6 second difference. Signet also lasts 20sec. so I can pop them well before I go into battle. And if it lost so easily no one would use them, and it wouldn’t be confirmed for rework You’re obviously just to pro for the rest of us.
(its more than 1800, I use shadowstep)

I like this idea. I think your earth one also needs bleed as well, or its a little weak. I think the air should only pull in, or give it two skills to pick if you want in or out. Also, make it a cantrip, that way traits can actually affect it like they do the other elites. Maybe instead of different modifiers on on each element, it can just give a different boon for the duration? I fear that might get gimmicky though.

It’s a visual glitch, you still need all 6 for full effect. It happens because your pvp gear has rune of the elementalist on each part by default, and it shows those in the rune count. They don’t actually contribute though.

Exactly, we also have those weapon skills and dodge (from sigil of endurance on our bow). That’s why the 3 skills we used aren’t going to mean we’re going to lose just because they survived.
And once again, you’re assuming that the thief is in plain sight coming right at you, which is usually a bad way to do things, there are obstacles everywhere.
You also can’t completely negate it, mug will always hit, CnD is almost guaranteed too, and unless you pop a shield or endure pain, but most people won’t carry a stun breaker as well as an invulnerability skill.
Elite skills not so much a problem, they usually take a decent chunk of time to activate, and then we just run away once we see them, they definitely give them an edge in normal fighting, but not a way to stop us from running unless its a ranger or mesmer.
Bottom line? We have variables and options too, Thieves not using them doesn’t mean the skills are weaker, it means they have more to lean. Isn’t that what you’ve been saying the whole time?
P.S. You pop venom and signet before you even see them, by the time the effect is up, the cd nearly is too.

As for warriors, people do complain about them, just not as much anymore. It’s mainly because they combo takes longer and is easier to see coming/dodge. They can’t warp and bull’s doesn’t even need a stun breaker to avoid. Their burst will probably be nerfed as well anyway.

It’s more mobile, meaning slightly more survivability, and/or you can do another CnD warp, though slightly weaker, using shadowstep.
It doesn’t take much to change a skill, I doubt so many people aren’t trying their own version.
As ArchNemesis mentioned earlier, you’ll get owned if your glass without a stun breaker. So I brought one.
Edit: and nighty, your bar is 3 skills less, but you still have your full mobility. Also, its one utility and a heal. The first thing most people do is try to get some space to heal, you can usually finish them off, if you don’t think you can, that’s where you weapon swap and warp out of there.

FrozenLuv.6017:

Navzar.2938:

knockdown counts as a stun for stun breakers. Pretty much all cc can be taken care of by roll for initiative or withdraw

Here we go again, talking about thieves like they have a lot more skill slots than any other class. A pure bs glass cannon thief would not have roll for initative on their skill bar, they will have haste, sin sig and devourer venom. Therefore, they don’t even have a stun breaker. You also mentioned withdraw, which they might have as their heal skill, but FYI, its not a stun breaker, in fact here’s, the description from the wiki

Roll backward while healing and evade attacks. Cures immobilized, chilled, and crippled.
Healing: 3,960

So instead of just listing out skills that sound like they work, look it up before posting misleading information about our class.

I don’t use devourer venom that’s why. Builds are allowed to be altered. Ergo, I have enough slots.
So try to think outside of the copy/paste build. We don’t all use the exact same bar.

Reapply it? With 2400+ distance between the two? You’re really overestimating snares here. And I do reach 13~17k pretty easily in sPvP.

It’s not the same, some movement skills are just flat out better than others.
That extra speed from swiftness only helps so much, unless you happen to be an ele with RTL to chase, its not really going to help that much. Shadowstep skills give them a 2400 gap start in 1/2 a sec and cripple,chill,immobilization is taken care of by withdraw or the stun breaker, remember?
And since when is .25~.5sec generally slow? Ele s/d burst took an entire 4 seconds, and it got nerfed to the ground.

Nighty, knowckdown counts as a stun for stun breakers. Pretty much all cc can be taken care of by roll for initiative or withdraw, of course that means you’ll have to escape since you lost the surprise attack, but you can still avoid dying easily. Also, your swap to shortbow will give back some endurance for dodge, despite having used haste. The quickness will also speed up your shooting animation for warp. More importantly, that utility isn’t meant for fighting, its solely for escaping quickly, you don’t use it and stick around.

“has nothing left” I’ve already explained that its not nothing, especially the quickness. If you insist that’s 7 initiative and 3sec quickness, heal and a utility is nothing, then I guess there’s no use in trying to get through to you. You also have more skills than heartseeker left, although its hard to miss with it when you’re right next to the enemy. No one said they were running glass either and “its over” should mean its time to run away if that thief knows when to give up (and a good glass roamer should.)
Just because it can be countered doesn’t mean its as weak/balanced as you seem to think it is.
Maybe you should stop telling others to learn their class and about thieves until you at least learn your own skills.

He’ll still have 3 seconds of quickness, a utility and half his initiative. That’s decent amount to finish someone off. 1cc and he’s dead? Last I checked, thieves can break stun too. And once again, if they have 30k hp, they’re a bunker. Of course a bunker will survive, they sacrifice all their damage to do that. Besides, they’re waiting in line for the nerf hammer too.
P.S. You can’t dodge steal.

A 100b war or the old spike ele are both far easier to avoid. As far as spikes go, its one of the better ones.

If that war has 30k hp, its using a tank build., also most classes don’t have nearly that much hp.
Walking through a character doesn’t take an entire second, maybe .2seconds. And it’s best to sneak up from behind anyway. CnD>mug (.2~.1beforeCnD ends)>backstab
Backstab itself is a .25 activation time, absolutely anybody can time mug to activate with CnD already 50%+ done everytime. So that’s >.25+.25+.2=>.7 from front, or >.5 from back, even you have bad timing skills. That still leaves 1sec of immobilization left. Now add quickness. The combo is now >.25sec from behind, and the thief still has at least 3 sec quickness. The guy will probably have a stun breaker, but a non tank would have taken around 13k-15k damage and should be an easy kill at this point (average reaction time +ping means the attack will most likely connect before the stun breaker goes off).
The mobility? You still have 7 initiative left and a skill slot. So you swap to your bow and using the warp skill + shadowstep.

Thing is its not just about the probability of winning or losing, but that the other players don’t have fun with these types of fights. A) get rolled, or B ) survive and chase the thief. Other builds have more of a “I lost because I didn’t play well enough” feeling, rather than a “I lost before I could do anything” type feeling.
And yes, some people do consider war OP, but they’re much easier to see coming and don’t burst quite as quickly, so they’ll complain about thieves first.