Let’s fix celestial amulet so it reduces 2 specific builds, and makes it entirely useless for 6 other professions to use in any sort of way.
One word. Myopic.
If a minor change to 1 amulet would make it useless to 6 other professions, it’s probably useless to those professions already (hence, why they aren’t in the meta). I don’t think they would nerf it that bad anyways though.
Still, I don’t think celestial itself is the problem. Even though the ferocity change was bundled in with all the changes to runes and sigils, I think the bigger problem is with the might stacking buffs.
Still, the “suggestions” a lot of these people make are incredibly short sighted and usually fueled by ulterior motives. I’ve seen a few such as:
Nerf might to give less condition damage per stack
Nerf might in general so it doesn’t give as much damage
Nerf battle sigils(they usually don’t get more specific than that with how they plan on doing that without hurting every other class that uses battle sigils)
Nerf signet of restoration heal passive(because attacking to get a passive heal is too strong compared to just a plain ole’ Healing Signet :P)
And quite a few more that usually fall under one or more of those topics.
All of which affect more than just DD cele ele. Some affect other ele builds that aren’t meta(hence why they probably never consider them when making these suggestions), some affect the class in general and some are so wide and nearsighted that they’d affect a build from at least every class.
I’ve said it before(can’t remember if it was in this thread) but IMO people are always so quick to asks for nerfs because of personal grudges. If those weren’t a factor, we’d see more threads asking for buffs to the classes they play in order to combat certain builds. But that is too difficult and way too constructive. It is far easier to just say the class they’re losing to is “OP GOD TIER” and then ask for nerfs to every thing that makes the build strong until its no longer a build anymore.
There is already a thread. Everything being said has been said to death and it just repeats itself in a new thread. Sometimes even repeats itself with new people in the same thread.
Move out of the area while they’re channeling? Think of it as windup. Meteor if you don’t channel the full duration drops a pitiful amount of meteors and is highly likely to miss your enemy completely. It is a high risk high reward skill. Both require you to stand still with an incredibly obvious animation(the fact that you’re standing there shooting/waving your hand in the air plus the whole, meteors falling from the sky thing) and only reach their full potential if you commit to it.
Your comparison with life transfer is faulty as life transfer doesn’t require you to stay still while channeling it, making it less risky than meteor or barrage. Stomps is definitely not a logical comparison since it isn’t even a skill but an action, and pretty much all actions in this game are interrupted by being knocked about unless they’re instant.
Another thing, don’t try bringing real world logic into a game where people can summon meteors from space or shoot dozens of arrows in a few seconds.
Backpack made a video that is good and answers most these questions (in youtube). It doesn’t have elixir gun but egun is situational : use stun break, condi cleanse, poison and weakness when needed.
I just watched the video and that was very helpful, thanks for pointing me to it ^^
Just curious as it seemed to stick out to me, does he have Box of Nails set to autoattack? He always seems to cast it instantly when switching to toolkit or was that just like a super ingrained habit thing? Should I be using Box of Nails every chance I get?
Just gonna remind people that Ele was not in a great place(try terrible place) before Celestial/Might changes, so sweeping rollbacks and nerfs really will just cripple the classes that relied on them to compete. But the problem is that a lot of the people complaining about how everything should be nerfed, usually don’t play the class they’re attacking and definitely don’t play it for the right reasons if they do at all. Need to consider the other builds and classes that could be affected by such broad changes.
And @Elitist, Skill ingame does not make your points more valid. If you were skilled in the class you’re attacking, it might hold some weight, but still not enough to make your opinion automatically right. I mean, book critics aren’t all world renowned authors…
I’m trying out engineer and decided I liked the idea of a 3-kit build since I enjoy playing ele and enjoy the complexity of having more than just 10 skills. So running Toolkit+Grenades+Elixir Gun in SPvP, what kit do you generally find yourself in or when do you switch? I find myself starting in grenades, toss all of them, then I really have no idea what I should be doing. And unfortunately, when I don’t know what I should be doing and there’s no attunement cds, I tend to just jump in and out of kits using whatever’s off cd. So to solve that I’ll ask a few questions.
1: Are they’re any skills that should not be used unless they’re needed? I.E. saved for a specific action/situation.
2: What, in general, is your cycle throughout the battle? Do you use all the cds in one kit then camp in another or do you combine specific skills from different kits?
3: Should I bother using the auto attack on grenades on non-downed people? I have trouble hitting with the full skill sometimes so unless I’m observing from outside the point I usually don’t land a majority of them.
4: Do certain kits lend themselves better to fighting against specific builds? If so, which ones. Just from experience, EG auto attack puts thieves on the defensive hardcore unless they’re stealth based.
And any other helpful tips you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Or, if we wanted to take the easy route to make it better we could make it a manipulation so that it can be affected by increased range and reduced cooldowns.
@Blackbear Caed and Sizer dont beat Eles 50% of the time. At this point you have no idea what you’re talking about. At top tier if an ele can kite well enough they have a 50% chance to 1v1 a necro.
Bunker Eles have always cheesed out Thieves (especially tourney Thieves which is what you’re describing) and the image of Necros is distorted by the fact that most people have zero clue how to play Necro nor how to manage their own or enemy cooldowns.
http://www.twitch.tv/demonold/c/4988399
This is a pretty accurate picture of what’ll happen to an Ele that engages a solo Nec assuming the Nec has a working brain.
Seeing as that video completely refutes the OP’s claim that nothing beats D/D in competitive play and that it is god tier, my guess is that they’ll claim that the ele is trash and didn’t play properly because they actually lost to someone. There really doesn’t seem to be any convincing him. Show video of someone killing a D/D ele, that ele must have sucked. Show ele beating literally anyone, obviously the only conclusion is that the ele is god tier and unbeatable.
But this is just me making assumptions and predicting the future with my crystal ball.
I predicted this. Goes the same way everytime.
Step 1: Someone complains about something being OP without really backing it up except with anecdotes and calls for poorly thought out, class-wide(sometimes affecting all classes too when they suggests changes to amulets/sigils/runes) nerfs that would not affect just the spec in question.
Step 2: People offer counters to said “OP” thing
Step 3: Original person either ignores the counters, insults you personally, or says you can’t possibly be skilled enough to know what you’re talking about. Sometimes all at once.
Step 4: Start from Step 2 and repeat until someone gets tired and stops.
Some freaking geniuses in this thread. THERE ISNT A kittenING CLASS IN THE GAME THAT CAN COUNTER THE BOON SPAM OF AN ELE. Necrotize Im not going to read your walls of text but really the game should be balanced at the highest level. Look at LoL, look at any other succesful competitive game. And half of your points arent even valid. Thats all Ill say for now, too late at night.
Has on demand boon access, not boon spam. Ele is a boon driven class, that is why boon duration is tied to their class mechanic trait tree. Balancing a game around only the highest levels of play makes it so they’re not balancing it based on the majority anymore and I think it’s fairly obvious that isn’t how things should be done.
You honestly haven’t offered much in the ways of constructive argument, but instead say “ELE IS OP CAUSE THIS” and then proceed to ignore/disregard everything said to you. Every class has counters. Shatter mesmer IMO does a good job at stopping elementalist b/c their burst removes the on demand protection that eles would normally use to counter burst. Necros wait until ele leaves water and corrupt boon+chill to screw up rotations.
But I’m gonna guess that 2 paragraphs is too long for you and I’ll get some kitten answer telling me I’m stupid or unskilled or whatever and that “ELE ISH SUPER OP GOD TIER 1v5 EASY MODE NO COUNTERS”.
~Snip~
Doubt he’ll read it but honestly if he’s judging the entire thing from a thief’s perspective it’d make a lot of sense. D/D ele excels at staying in one place and dealing damage whereas in higher levels of play thief assumes the role of roaming and shifting fights, which would be difficult with an ele fighting on point giving allies boons.
(edited by Necrotize.2974)
Yeah, don’t listen to all the people whining about D/D celestial ele. If you want a complex class, ele or engi is your best bet. Both are viable in pretty much all game modes in some way or another and honestly after playing both you’ll find it hard to go back to other classes.
Anyone can slap on strength runes and use D/D to hunt random people in hotjoin, but as stated above, truly mastering D/D will take some time. There’s a reason you see tons of LB rangers in hotjoin compared to D/D eles. D/D ele is probably a stronger build, but it is active play and it is a lot more skill intensive than other builds like Turret Engi or LB ranger. Played improperly, you’ll either have trouble dealing lethal damage or trouble staying alive, usually not both as new players tend to over focus on one or the other and neglect either damage or survivability. But you’ll still be pretty effective against people who don’t know how to fight you. When mastered however, your combos will become almost second nature. You won’t setup to stack might, you’ll just stack might during the course of attacking. Probably the most dangerous mistake you can make is switching to another attunement just because it’s off cd. With Air and Fire this isn’t so much a problem, but switching to water at the wrong time can leave you open to condi-burst while switching to earth at the wrong time wastes your protection to stop power burst.
Long post but the gist is: Play ele or engi if you want a complex class. Just know that people will complain no matter what because active play trumps passive play(most of the time) so naturally the class with a lot more actions available will be even more powerful than people relying on passive means assuming you use everything to its full effect.
DD ele is quite possibly the most OP spec the game has seen yet again. The devs really need to understand that we cant go another 6 months until a nerf, we need nerfs now. DD ele is god tier 1v1, god tier 2v2, and A tier teamfighter. Its incredibly annoying to fight on any class, and works too well in every situation. I personally think we need a revert on water 3 change, a nerf to cele ammy, and a universal 10% decrease on signet of resto (universal meaning PvP and WvW). Also the trait that grants eles perma vigor is too OP, increase ICD to 7 seconds ao its still better than the minors that guard and mes have.
Why should a major trait be nerfed to be only slightly better than a minor one on another class? 2 Second difference to make up for taking up a trait slot in probably one of the more competitive branches of traits for ele. Not like engineers can’t get perma vigor either.
It is strong, I won’t deny that. But it is reliant on might to take people down so anything that stops might stacking or removes it sends them from a speeding train to sudden stop. You may not know, but before the changes to strength runes and the rise of celestial, ele in general was in a really terrible place and the nerfs you suggest would not just affect D/D celestial eles.
If you don’t play smart, you’re gonna lose to the active play associated with proper might stacking and on demand boons, and this is how it should be. Strip might or stay out of eles fire fields and you can pretty much make them decide to chase you and give up on might stacking or make them waste all their blast finishers getting might and not hitting you with any of them. I toyed around with ele for a while and I was shocked at how many people just don’t understand how to handle it. Like trying to condi-bomb me before I’ve even switched into water or trying to face tank things like firegrab because they think stability keeps them safe from my setups. Eles in general are destroyed by Chill. Even just a few seconds of chill applied after they leave water screws them over hardcore.
Long story short, DD celestial ele is strong, but it also isn’t completely passive play like a lot of other very effective builds, which is why it should be strong. If an ele wastes all their blast finishers and doesn’t even bother trying to hit you with them, then you should have no trouble killing them. But if you just try to bum rush them without even bothering to pay attention to what element they’re in, you probably deserve to lose when 33% of your burst disappears to on demand protection or all your conditions disappear when you bomb them before they use water.
I’m sorry that youre a subpar ele going against subpar players. but in the top of competitive d/d ele is beyond over the top.
And I’m sorry that you think the entire game should be balanced around top tier competitive play. Point is, not all players are top tier, not all matches are competitive, and wide sweeping nerfs to appeal to those are not the answer. Whenever a new meta arises, all these doom and gloom people show up saying that blank is super OP, impossible to beat, god tier and requires no skill to be good. When people offer insight on counters they either ignore it or claim the person has no idea what they’re talking about because they can’t possibly be skilled enough to know what they’re saying. Everyone always suggests nerfing things, partially to equalize the playing field, and I’d hazard a guess to say partially because they’re kittened off they got beat by something one too many times. If the latter had no impact on these things, we’d see more threads intent on raising other classes up to the level of the meta, not tearing down those who control it.
But, as the people before my have pointed out or hinted at, most people who are convinced something is OP is unlikely to change their opinion and won’t be satisfied until it is nerfed. Any counters people provide are ignored and all advice is met with sarcasm, rudeness or just ignored as well.
DD ele is quite possibly the most OP spec the game has seen yet again. The devs really need to understand that we cant go another 6 months until a nerf, we need nerfs now. DD ele is god tier 1v1, god tier 2v2, and A tier teamfighter. Its incredibly annoying to fight on any class, and works too well in every situation. I personally think we need a revert on water 3 change, a nerf to cele ammy, and a universal 10% decrease on signet of resto (universal meaning PvP and WvW). Also the trait that grants eles perma vigor is too OP, increase ICD to 7 seconds ao its still better than the minors that guard and mes have.
Why should a major trait be nerfed to be only slightly better than a minor one on another class? 2 Second difference to make up for taking up a trait slot in probably one of the more competitive branches of traits for ele. Not like engineers can’t get perma vigor either.
It is strong, I won’t deny that. But it is reliant on might to take people down so anything that stops might stacking or removes it sends them from a speeding train to sudden stop. You may not know, but before the changes to strength runes and the rise of celestial, ele in general was in a really terrible place and the nerfs you suggest would not just affect D/D celestial eles.
If you don’t play smart, you’re gonna lose to the active play associated with proper might stacking and on demand boons, and this is how it should be. Strip might or stay out of eles fire fields and you can pretty much make them decide to chase you and give up on might stacking or make them waste all their blast finishers getting might and not hitting you with any of them. I toyed around with ele for a while and I was shocked at how many people just don’t understand how to handle it. Like trying to condi-bomb me before I’ve even switched into water or trying to face tank things like firegrab because they think stability keeps them safe from my setups. Eles in general are destroyed by Chill. Even just a few seconds of chill applied after they leave water screws them over hardcore.
Long story short, DD celestial ele is strong, but it also isn’t completely passive play like a lot of other very effective builds, which is why it should be strong. If an ele wastes all their blast finishers and doesn’t even bother trying to hit you with them, then you should have no trouble killing them. But if you just try to bum rush them without even bothering to pay attention to what element they’re in, you probably deserve to lose when 33% of your burst disappears to on demand protection or all your conditions disappear when you bomb them before they use water.
This thread isn’t falling to the second page. Not happening.
Maybe we should start coming up with propaganda? Slap a hobosack on holiday mascots? Crying baby quaggans with the sacks on?
Need heartbreaking testimonials too.
“Becky was my best friend. She used to be a happy, popular girl until one night she tried on a hobosack at a party. She died instantly. Please, don’t use hobosacks. It’s the most dangerous type of sack out there. Please don’t wind up like Becky.”
take this
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpWr9ZxvLseRCbBNqxAyJcBRuxh8xGEAA-ThRDgAMXAgkHAoEsX537+j6Pg6AAM/RIgRLAA-e
faceroll through every map while lighting stuff up, YAY.-Perfect for mass-extinct of mobs with FT.
-Perfect for kiting champs with bombkit.
-Cheap and easy to build.
-Lots of satisfying explosions and flames.Map completion is more about ignoring mobs than killing them o-o
But aside from running around, the most time will probably be spent doing skill challenges. For the communing ones, Elixir S with its invulnerability and stealth is ideal, however for ones that require defeating a few enemies+a vet, you’ll want some Aoe dps I guess.
It’s a neat concept to make it so that it’s not just another stealth skill, but I can see that becoming pretty game-changing in a player versus player setting.
Still, elites should be game changing IMO. Not enough so that people can be carried by them, but good enough to warrant their use as a standalone skill, not just some cover to cast something else like a heal or phantasm. As it stands, it is fairly similar to other utility skills like Shadow Refuge or Blinding Powder with the only major bonus being its range and the fact that it affects 10 people instead of 5(but I’d hardly call that “mass”).
Would mesmer still see enemys? ????
Fun idea but never gonna happen
Everyone would be able to see the enemies except those enemies’ allies. From their perspective, it would basically make everyone around them invisible, whether they were friend or foe.
And I’m just sitting here, crossing my fingers that Signet of Inspiration will give me 10 seconds of swiftness.
I absolutely love Lindsey Stirling and her music.
Shatter Me seems like it was made specifically for shatter mesmers, the theme and the catchy tunes are just so mesmer-ish.
Beyond the Veil is another good one (for PU mesmers maybe???).
I feel like violin(especially the way Lindsey Stirling plays it) just screams mesmer. Something fast, and elegant yet strong and chaotic at times. Can’t get enough violin when you’re playing mesmer.
What if Mass Invisibility also made up to 5 nearby enemies invisible to their own allies for the duration? Then you’d literally be making invisibility an offensive action. Turning downed enemies invisible to make sure they aren’t rezzed, screwing up coordinated attacks and making it easy separate allies. Sounds right up the mesmer’s alley.
I personally love hearing other people’s music and usually end up binge listening to new artists that way so what do you jam out to while playing mesmer? I personally am a fan of Lindsey Stirling, this song in particular. Whenever I listen to it I get an intense urge to play my mesmer
What does the meta or being the meta have anything to do with a new profession?
We have 8 classes. If only 4 are useful, why add a 9th instead of making the other 4 useful?
Starting fresh is easier then perfecting something I guess…? Who knows, maybe building a class from scratch would give the devs more insight into balancing the others. Worst case scenario we get another useless class or another broken class in some game modes but still get something new to play with.
AoE reveal on such a short cooldown would pretty much insure ranger hard counters thieves. Stealth is thief’s damage mitigation and people just want ways to completely ignore it, but IIRC, people posted suggestions about certain thief skills ignoring invulnerability or blocks and people freaked out. Not to mention, ranger already has a source of Revealed that lasts for 6 seconds. Predicting and revealing large amounts of players in WvW scenarios is what Stealth Disruptor Traps and Arrow Cart mastery are for.
Oh so now you want to compare normal skills with moa skills. Yes they do so much dmg are so much viable I would like to play as a moa 100% of the time actually.
The only good skill ins 5 because it is an evade and evade works for everyone. The other 4 skills are garbage. Moa makes condi classes use direct dmg, makes ranged classes use melee, make
Obviously you don’t want to use Moa skills for 100% of the time, but you only use them for 10 seconds so they’re good enough that even in average hands you shouldn’t be instantly dying to a mesmer because of it unless you were already losing.
The other 4 skills actually have rather high damage coefficients and are all one 4 second cds. One is a leap finisher(which you also could use to escape seeing as mesmer has next to no access to swiftness) and one can apply aoe weakness while another applies cripple. The problem is, most people just see they’re moa’d then try and run. Chaining evades, you can get about 3 seconds of dodge time. But if you say…cripple the mesmer then leap away and evade, you have a much better chance of surviving.
Being snarky won’t prove your point. Just makes you look whiny and unwilling to adapt to anything that makes you change playstyles. As far as elites go, Moa is so far from the best and honestly I don’t think I’ve seen even more than a handful of people actually using it over mass invisibility. Moa might allow you to kill one person. Maybe. Mass invis can guarantee you stomps, can protect a rezz, can allow your team to sneak up on someone and synergizes with mesmer skills in general. It is by far more commonly used and in my opinion more practical than Moa morph. If you’re upset because Moa Morph makes it hard to 1v1, I have bad news for you. Gw2 is not balanced around 1v1.
As someone already stated, like 90% of your posts seem to be asking for nerfs to things that beat you and the other 10% asking for buffs to your class.
Just sifting through your previous posts, I’m realizing that arguing this with you will be pointless for everyone involved. You complain about mesmers regularly and even went so far as to claim that thief is not a hard-counter for them. Constant exaggerations, talking about how classes 1 and 2 shot you and stuff to that nature. I think if people are two shotting you and you are having trouble with mesmers as a thief, you’re the problem, not the classes. Thief has a lot of hard matchups, mesmer is rarely one of them.
Moa skills are actually not bad. The “nerf” needed is just a tutorial area where people can be turned into a moa and learn the skills. I still remember the days I used moa for the sake of it and was destroyed by good players, so don’t call it a “useless animal”.
You actually can test it out. The Mesmer NPC in the PvP practice area will cast Moa on you.
Edit: Anton beat me to it.
all of this qq about teefs makes me laugh.
meanwhile necros have had one of their primary class mechanics (siphons) broken since launch, the design philosophy that necros shouldnt be mobile or stable is a failure if it doesnt have any sustain, passives are incredibly powerful, and the one power build is a one shot wonder (oh no ill never dodge that 1 second cast time immob).
Would you rather have siphons be kept broken or have other things slowly made worse over time to put them on par with siphon?
The problem most people have is as soon as they turn into Moa they just try and run away. The moa skills actually deal decent damage(depending on build of course), one is a 600 leap finisher with cripple attached, and all have a 4 second cd except for flee. It has a 1 second cast time and can be dodged or blocked. It also has a 180 second cd, not to mention it is rare to actually see it in use(at least in Spvp) because mass invis is, in general, much more useful.
Sorry but the last sentence is basically what every whiner says. Make all classes have the same skills and then it will be balanced. Take something that makes one class unique and give it to every single other class. Don’t you think mesmers would love long stability or perma swiftness?
Eles can just exploit the game mechanics more than any class.
They pop off 4 or 5 long cooldown burst skills, and then fall back into defensive mode, and pop off 4 or 5 long cooldown defensive skills, and if all that didn’t work, they run away.
…all the while their opponent is pressing #1 as hard as they can.
The celestial ele doesn’t bother me as much as a tweeked one does. Some eles just cant be killed (clerics?) …and zerkers can kill you in seconds, and both builds play exactly the same way.
If clerics used water, and zerkers used air, it would be one thing, but most of the time an ele’s build is a mystery until you check the combat log.
It shouldn’t be too hard to tell what’s happening. No matter the build, most D/D eles have very similar rotations. Saying eles are too hard to predict because they don’t camp in one element just supports my theory that people don’t know nearly enough about eles. In almost all cases, an ele camping in one element is dead against anyone of average skill. Their cds are not designed for them to remain on one attunement for extended periods of time.
Not counting auto attacks, the average cd for staff skills untraited for example, is almost 24 seconds. For D/D it is a little over 24.5 seconds.
It should be pretty obvious from the get-go if the ele is burst or tanky just by how much damage their first skill or your first skill does. In fact, most ele builds are fairly similar, the arcana line as a whole pretty much has 3 traits that are almost exclusively used in each slot and water doesn’t have much variety either.
It won’t help you learn the class very much(as you stay in one attunement for the entire time) but try googling Diva’s Condition Signet Build. I only say google it because although it is located here on the forums I was having trouble viewing it and don’t know if that applies to everyone.
The video can be found here and there is a build description for PvP in the description. I hope Diva doesn’t mind me sharing the build like this, I was just amazed at how effective it was ^^
If you want a TL: DR, it’s at the bottom.
So this is just a crazy theory I’m working on about why people are quite recently claiming ele to be god tier or whatever in Spvp. I feel most people in general just don’t know enough about the class to really fight them well, and because of this assume they are OP. At this point, different people will do different things, some will roll an ele because they want to be that “OP” class they just got destroyed by, others will carry on, maybe try ele to see what it is all about. But those people that rolled the class just because they wanted to be the top dog probably will never truly understand the class enough to play it well and definitely not enough to get better as a player to fight them.
I say this because it seems no matter what build I run, people just have such trouble dealing with elementalists. They either try to burst apply conditions before I enter water, or try to burst me down just as I switched into earth, heck, some just keep firing away after I’ve popped a Magnetic Aura or Magnetic Wave and proceed to kill themselves. Obviously better players won’t be fooled so easily, but at the same time I’m finding incredibly gimicky one trick pony builds to be quite effective. Of course, the people who do understand the class rarely have too much trouble with me.
I’m by no means a great ele, maybe average if we’re being generous. Thieves that use the stolen skill as soon as I leave water and interrupt as soon as they see ether renewal, they kill me easily. Necros that know to wait until I cycle through my blast finishers to corrupt boons and chill, they can usually shut me down fast. Zerkers who burst as soon as I leave water or earth have a much better chance than those who just use their burst because it’s off cooldown.
Only reason I’m bringing this up is because of late I’ve been using a rather one trick pony build using S/F where really my only dps is burns and bleeds. Nothing but signets and I never leave earth( Courtesy to Diva for really bringing the build into creation and coming up with the idea) and yet people still struggle desperately sometimes. Obsidian flesh tricks way more people than it should and the fact that no one bothers to cleanse 15 stacks of bleed on themselves but use a cleanse on a single burn is staggering. This build uses neither celestial or any form of might stacking, with the only might coming from Fire Aura procs.
TLDR
Very long way of saying it with lots of personal examples, but I feel people don’t handle eles well because even when they play the class they don’t play it for the right reasons and just want to be that Fotm build. Sure some things may need to be toned down or fixed, but I think the much bigger issue is people calling something OP, then playing the class for the entirely wrong reasons and still concluded it to be OP and calling for class-wide nerfs despite only trying out the FotM builds.
Just my humble opinion, feel free to attack, just know I’ll be less inclined to answer if you are insulting or rude.
I thought everyone knew by now. People make these threads just so they have something to complain about, that’s how sad humanity has become.
In general, we complain about everything even if we don’t need to.
Go ahead and nerf an already nerfed skill so it becomes like it was before they buffed it, you guys will just complain afterwards about Signet of Restoration, then Healing Turret and on and on, it’s an endless cycle.I forgot people don’t know professions are different for a reason, like having higher hp because of no protection, or having stealth because of squishyness.
You really can’t apply that to everything. Sometimes people complain about things that genuinely need to be fixed. Of course, everyone has a different opinion on what needs to be fixed so the only opinion that really matters in the end is that of the devs.
Professions should be different, but you have to admit that HS is pretty obviously superior to the other warrior heals even though all it provides is health as a passive when people, especially now, are saying Adrenaline is super hard to build or that warriors have no condition removal. Maybe Adrenaline and Conditions are such a problem because no one is willing to sacrifice healing signet to use Healing Surge or Mending.
You can’t compare skills across professions because you have to look at the broader context.
Actually, I can, and rightfully so. The fact that you have previously done so in this thread, yet shout down others for doing so, doesn’t yield much value to what your saying.
This is ridiculous.
What about stealth? Stealth isn’t fun to play against. I can’t have fun not seeing my opponent.What about clones? Clones aren’t fun to play against. It’s confusing and annoying to have so many things on the screen.
However these aren’t a problem – but HS is. Cute.
Right here, in this very thread, you compare healing signet to stealth and clones and claim that if the person doesn’t find those annoying, then they shouldn’t find HS problematic. Just saying.
I feel like people just don’t like Healing Signet because it is probably one of warriors best heals if not the best and is completely passive. Passive play inherently has a lower skill cap than active play, but that does not mean passive play should be made stronger than active. Why worry about managing your heal or protecting it with stability if you never need to actually cast it. It’s the same reason a lot of guardians run the block heal, it is almost impossible to interrupt and doesn’t need to be actively protected. As it stands, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a warrior actually use healing signet unless they were panicking and about to die anyway.
True, all skills have their weakness, even the passive ones. But saying poison is a counter for healing signet really isn’t saying much because poison counters all heals except the few that inherently remove it.
True. Poison does that, but it “double” counters HS.
Reason being that Healing Signet requires you to NOT activate it. If you do, you lose out on valuable HP. Yet poison takes a skill that grants around 390-400 hp/second down to 250-290 hp/second. Now, compare that to a large health pool and you realizes that warriors is in a tight spot without the poison. With poison, their not going to make it even if they use the active, mainly because the active is too weak, but also because a weak active with poison applied to it is not going to rescue them or even buy them any notable time.If warriors have no conditions on them, runs a xx6xx uses both zerk and endure stance then in that little 4 second window of “no pain” they can heal for roughly 2000 HP, on a base HP pool of 18.5k and you realizes that it is almost not worth mentioning. Sure, adrenal health and healing signet is 100% active as long as their requirements (not been activated/got adrenaline) is met, yet still they cannot carry the warrior.
Good examples of this is in WvW. Despite it’s durability, its sustain and its ruggedness, the warriors on the frontline, they do not sustain themselves, it is the guardians that sustain them. Without the guardians granting heals, protection , stability and regeneration and condition cleanses, they would be overwhelmed by the sheer damage output.
This transfers to PvP too, but in a much less visible way. While warriors are undoubtedly strong and tanky, they are often going down very fast when their 4-8 seconds of “god mode” is over.In short, the design of the healing signet only allow the warrior to exist for 4-8 seconds before it is left with only CC cooldowns to sustain it. And while you can live long by stunlocking enemies, you can also get stunlocked yourself (common occurrence) or otherwise incapacitated by a sudden surge of soft CC.
Still, doesn’t change the fact that healing signet is probably one of the best heals in this game despite being entirely passive. Just going from the wiki’s numbers and picking probably the most popular heals, none will consistently match the hp/s of HS and the ones that come close have specific circumstances or drawbacks. The closest heals that match the healing power of the signet are Ether Feast, Ether Renewal, and Consume Conditions. Ether feast requires 3 illusions up to come close to HS’ hp/s, while Ether Renewal has a long and very obvious cast time that if interrupted at any point goes on full cd. Consume Conditions requires conditions to be effective so if it is interrupted when it is really needed, chances are they’re dead. Obviously there are many more factors to this issue, but just going from the numbers, most heals are at least 100 hp/s behind Healing Signet despite being far more active. This was just a quick little calculation using the wiki and the most commonly used heals like Shelter, Troll Ungent, Healing Turret, Withdraw and the ones listed above so this definitely isn’t comprehensive. But it terms of healing per second, HS pretty obviously outclasses a lot of other active heals.
And to the point of stunlocking. Any class can be stunlocked, just like any class can be poisoned. Only difference is that healing signet+adrenal health keep ticking in the background whereas other heals don’t. Using something like Ether Renewal against a class with a lot of stuns like hammer warrior is suicide.
I’m not saying just nerf HS and be done with it. The other heals need to be brought up to the level of HS in usability and then HS can be toned down. It should not be the only viable option for most warriors despite it being passive.
I’ve been using it for a while now and can definitely confirm it works how Kravick said. It is a bit weird but I think it gives us a bit more freedom with regards to blast finishers. It also means that I don’t need to stay in my own field to get the blast, so long as I start the heal inside the field. I think I actually prefer it this way. Allows me to stay mobile.
I feel like people just don’t like Healing Signet because it is probably one of warriors best heals if not the best and is completely passive. Passive play inherently has a lower skill cap than active play, but that does not mean passive play should be made stronger than active. Why worry about managing your heal or protecting it with stability if you never need to actually cast it. It’s the same reason a lot of guardians run the block heal, it is almost impossible to interrupt and doesn’t need to be actively protected. As it stands, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a warrior actually use healing signet unless they were panicking and about to die anyway.
True, all skills have their weakness, even the passive ones. But saying poison is a counter for healing signet really isn’t saying much because poison counters all heals except the few that inherently remove it.
This is clearly a ltp-issue to me
I think it’s more of a l2read issue.
Bump for interesting mindset, playstyle, and build.
Nobody wants to 1v1 on a Staff Ele?! Pretty much nobody has you figured out yet…
I’ve been playing around with a bunker staff build that is working pretty well. I can pretty much hold a point against even zerkers for a fairly long time although the might stacking with staff is a bit restricted compared to daggers and I had to switch Battle sigils out for energy.
This thread shows how people don’t read threads.
Was just thinking the same thing…
I mean, at least read the other posts so you know you’re not just repeating what someone else said.
Think of your role as that of a thief, but with less mobility. You can’t bunker at all and focus fire can end you once your few defensive skills are gone. Because of this, you need to think of what is best for your survival. If you’re dead, you contribute nothing and you don’t stay alive long enough for that death to be worth much. This means you need to pick your fights. Don’t try to engage a tankier spec 1v1 unless you have to. Your most impacting maneuvers will be heading to points that are being fought over already and finding either the squishiest target, or the one causing the most trouble and quickly taking them out while they’re focused on another teammate.
Once you get the rotations and interrupts down, killing squishies will basically be ingrained as a habit and you can do it in less than a second. But if another zerker targets you, you are gonna have a much harder time landing your entire burst since it occurs in such a short amount of time. One random dodge on their part can negate 90% of your damage.
Always see posts about people saying it’d better for eles if they could just have another utility slot instead of an elite. People always suggest new ideas for elites or how to make the current ones better, but I think this is more fun. How would you change certain utility skills to make them elite worthy?
Mist Form-Become an invulnerable mist for 5 seconds. While in this form you heal allies(and yourself) and remove conditions every second but are immobile. Radius would be about the size of a point. Downed allies will also be revived a % amount each second(sort of like that Engineer throw elixir skill). Projectiles passing through the mist are destroyed.
Signet of Earth: Passive-Increased toughness, 10% chance to reflect projectiles that hit you.
Active-Immobilize all enemies within 360 range of your target for 4 seconds.
Glyph of Elemental Power- Same effects as current only when activated all conditions can be procced with a 25% chance regardless of attunement. 3 Second cd on individual procs but does not prevent others from going off.
Any fun ideas?
Just saw the title and immediately thought Lindsey Stirling and then I had to watch the video for two reasons. One because I love staff ele pvp, and two because that sweet violin. The effects, while cool, seemed a bit distracting in some parts but at the same time fit well with the music and place in the fights. I would definitely not use the screen panning/zooming effect so much in mobile fights and instead more selectively to zoom in or focus on key points in the fight like landing a specific skill or interrupting something important. Using it during finishers is a good example of when it worked really well for you.
I did love the LB ranger bit though, made my day.
Not all classes are meant to do everything, each class has something they excel at way more than any other even though many classes share these traits(or at least they should). Fear and boon control are necros just like reflects are mesmers and stealth is thieves. Other classes may have access to these characteristics, but definitely not to the extent of the originating class. If we were to do this we might as well give necros mobility and blocks and give warriors stealth.
Awesome, thanks a ton. I’ll toy around with all the options and see which I like the best. After playing with staff a lot I got super addicted to Signet of Earth so I’ll need to compare it to other utilities.
Anyone care to give me an example build or at least a skeleton of one? I’ve been playing around with staff recently and quite enjoy it. It seems to be the right mix between burst/pressure and defensive abilities which was something I didn’t really find on D/D, plus I feel that is a little over done. I have played around with the complete zerker staff ele idea where I basically act as an AoE thief zerker, roaming from fight to fight, taking down squishies who are already fighting, only with a lot less escape options.
Thanks in advance.
Very cool. What do you find your hardest matchups to be?
And what do you usually do after you burst someone since some of those skills are on a pretty hefty cd?
If my eyes don’t deceive me, the rotation you used mostly was Arcane Power>Phoenix>LF(While attuning to air)>Lightning Strike>RtL>Updraft then occasionally into Earth for an earth quake if they somehow survived. Are there any alternate combos you enjoy or do you keep this one and basically roam around point to point, jumping in when needed?
I only ask so many questions because I’ve always wanted to play a burst ele, I’ve just never been fast enough to play fresh air and honestly found it a little tedious, switching back and forth over and over.
If such a change ever did take place(and hopefully it never does), they would need to revert it to 1 blind/sec and make the field much larger, like maybe half a point size. Or combine the stealth with the skill making it create a smoke field+blind+grant 3 seconds of stealth.
There are so many classes that deal with D/P stealth just fine. Heck, if you know they’re about to reset the fight cause they’re low, just stand in their BP. They’ll try to HS through, hit you and get revealed, then be as good as dead.
If you have sword main hand, Infiltrator’s Strike works. I’m also fairly certain Withdraw works well, as does ROI but I don’t think many people use that( I do but whatever). Or if you happen to be using Sbow and you have allies around, throw a cluster bomb or two and free everyone. The immobilize pulses every 1.5 seconds so if you do use something that requires porting back to remove the condition(shadowstep or infiltrator’s), make sure you dodge out of the area quickly. Or just wait till the 1.5 sec immob wears off after teleporting and get to killing that ranger.
1- Warrior
2- Guardian
3- Mesmer/Thief
4- Guardian/Warrior
5- Mesmer/Thief/Ele (depends most on the race)
Just a little addendum to that #4. Engineers tag things like crazy with flamethrower since it has decent range but each pulse of the autoattack has the potential to change targets, allowing it to hit far more enemies than a regular AoE skill.