Guild Wars 2

Terrorsquad.4802:

Belial.9350:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Belial.9350:

Terrorsquad.4802:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Necrotize.2974:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Elementalists have burning as their single condition.

This is untrue. D/D ele has access to Chill, Immob, Burning, Bleeding, Weakness, and Cripple on weapon skills, Blinds on Evasive Arcana, and potentially poison if running doom sigils.

Besides bleeding none of these conditions do any damage, so burning is the only damaging conditions eles and guards have. Eles have 1 bleed skill and no trait support.

Eles have 3 bleed skills.. All in Earth.

Terrorsquad.4802:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Necrotize.2974:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Elementalists have burning as their single condition.

This is untrue. D/D ele has access to Chill, Immob, Burning, Bleeding, Weakness, and Cripple on weapon skills, Blinds on Evasive Arcana, and potentially poison if running doom sigils.

Besides bleeding none of these conditions do any damage, so burning is the only damaging conditions eles and guards have. Eles have 1 bleed skill and no trait support.

Eles have 3 bleed skills.. All in Earth.

Yes but one is the earth auto which nobody uses and another is churning earth which again nobody uses. The remaining bleed skill does a hefty 1 stack of bleeding.

Nobody? What if I say I do?
What if Im so smart I get stealth from thief, load up my earth 5 and open with lighting flash mid-cast to target and hit a lucky 4-5k with 8 stacks bleed? Not to mention I still need to start in fire hue.

You can see the earth 5 red circle and animation even if the ele is stealthed…

And here I thought I could start up earth 5 behind a wall and lightning flash to the target! Oh my!

It’s still not really worth using honestly. It slows down your rotation greatly and you’d probably do more damage and definitely bring more to your team if you’d just continued with the rotations. It hits hard and all, but with how long it takes to channel, only distracted players or bad players will get hit by it, and all that time you’re channeling your boons are running down. Lightning Flash is much better used to insure a Burning Speed hits as it not only provides burns, a fire field and high damage, but combining lightning flash with it allows you to utilize the evade effectively as well without having to worry about missing with your big damage skill.

Only time outside of hotjoin I’ve ever used Churning Earth is prematch might stacking.

Belial.9350:

Terrorsquad.4802:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Necrotize.2974:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Elementalists have burning as their single condition.

This is untrue. D/D ele has access to Chill, Immob, Burning, Bleeding, Weakness, and Cripple on weapon skills, Blinds on Evasive Arcana, and potentially poison if running doom sigils.

Besides bleeding none of these conditions do any damage, so burning is the only damaging conditions eles and guards have. Eles have 1 bleed skill and no trait support.

Eles have 3 bleed skills.. All in Earth.

Terrorsquad.4802:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Necrotize.2974:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Elementalists have burning as their single condition.

This is untrue. D/D ele has access to Chill, Immob, Burning, Bleeding, Weakness, and Cripple on weapon skills, Blinds on Evasive Arcana, and potentially poison if running doom sigils.

Besides bleeding none of these conditions do any damage, so burning is the only damaging conditions eles and guards have. Eles have 1 bleed skill and no trait support.

Eles have 3 bleed skills.. All in Earth.

Yes but one is the earth auto which nobody uses and another is churning earth which again nobody uses. The remaining bleed skill does a hefty 1 stack of bleeding.

To cover all bases, Earth auto, Earth 2, Dodge roll in Earth and Churning Earth. It doesn’t really matter how much bleeding each applies, because you’re only using them to cover burning anyway. Heck, they could apply nothing but 1 stack of vulnerability and it’d still be the same. That’s one extra condition on top of your burn that prevents it from immediately being cleansed. Using Churning Earth is usually a bad idea, but for the other skills, the fact that bleeds cover up other more useful conditions is good enough. The small extra damage is just icing.

It would just remove counterplay and screw over anyone hoping to deal meaningful damage with specific conditions. If the condition user can manage to apply enough cover conditions to stop you cleansing their burst, why should they be punished with next to no dps because you clicked a cleanse skill too late? That’s the whole point of cover conditions, to punish people who don’t cleanse in time. And if people could choose which conditions were prioritized, it’d obviously be burns at the top with Immob and maybe Torment/Confusion up there. Condition and boon removal functions in a specific way that rewards active playstyle and fast actions.

That type of change would just reward sloppy play and punish people who try to use cover conditions/protect their damage by not only removing their main source of damage, but also putting the source on cd for next to no impact.

Should note that people don’t really like total control either. Just look at Rev’s Centaur stance bubble. Requires a ton of micromanaging just to get it to do what it’s supposed to. I honestly hope they aren’t minions but instead act sort of like buffs. While summoned, they just orbit you and repeat certain actions. Maybe make it so they can’t be damaged directly but have some limiter tied to their function. Like one pulses protection but takes a percent of the damage you take. Or one fires attacks at enemies, but can only fire a limited number of shots before disappearing. Stuff like that so they’re not actually AI controlled minions that get stuck on everything and die in seconds.

Rezzet.3614:

Necrotize.2974:

Rezzet.3614:

Necrotize.2974:

Rezzet.3614:

CURRENTLY engineer does not need weaponswap However when FOrge or whatever spec comes out engineer Will need weapon swap because from what i see forge= hammer+6 new floating bots ( of wich you ll be able to equip 3 at a time, 4 if there s a healing one and 6 if somehow theres an elite one) engineer will need weapon swap to have a ranged alternative .

So if you purposefully limit yourself to only new skills by filling up all your utility slots you deserve a weapon swap? That makes no sense. It’s essentially the same as saying Warrior should be able to swap between 3 weapons because if they take GS+Hammer they have no ranged option. Even if all the bots are useful, I seriously doubt it’ll be worth taking one for each Utility/Heal/Elite slot over even just 1 kit.

Taking Forge doesn’t force you to take the floating bots. If Forge got weapon swap, there’d be almost no reason to take the bots anyway because you could make a beastly build using Rifle+Pistol/Shield and the normal 2-3 kits.

not saying purposely limit ourselves but why give us new skills at all if we wont be able to use them successfully to begin with ?
Ranger is successful with greatsword because they already have pets for ccing and a 3000 effective range longbow on their same kit , their invulnerability also allows them to use skills while active unlike engi’s or eles

so forge will just offer Hammer on a ranged class and useless Bots that will mostt likely be destroyable like turrets

so please Elaborate how exactly would engineer be game breaking by being able to have weapon swap

right now even without the new spec if we had weapon swap one of our weapons would be useless damagewise pistol= condi damage rifle= power so at most on a power build you’d use pistol and shield for its shields and on a condi build rifle for the blunderbuss bleeds the immobilize and the overcharge cc break

Because as I said, giving weapon swap would allow builds that have no real intention of running the bots to add yet another weapon to their kitten nal. You’d basically just be trading a trait line for the ability to use Hammer in addition to Rifle plus 2-4 kits. If we look at their reasoning for giving Revenant weapon swap, it is because it was literally impossible for Rev to get both ranged and melee into one build. For engineer and Forge, it won’t be impossible because you can always slot in a kit to fulfill whatever type of combat you’re lacking.

i dont see much of a diference then because engineers have kits but revenants have Legend stances wich effectively equals to 5 utilities per stance , needless to say stance skills are vastly superior than engineer kits as well

Stance skills that can’t be changed like utilities can. There is no taking a stance just for 1-2 skills like you can with kits because that means taking several other skills you’ll likely never use. Any class besides Rev can change their utilities to match the situation, Rev has to change their stances, and if they would need things from 3 different stances they’re out of luck. Whereas with kits, you effectively take up 1 slot and replace it with 6 skills. Comparing kits to stance skills is also apples and oranges because you’re essentially comparing weapon skills to utility skills. A majority of your dps comes from 1-5 skills, regardless of class. Utilities(that don’t replace weapon skills) supplement that. This is incredibly important for Rev in particular because of energy consumption. Utilities use up a good deal of energy which is a shared resource for their weapon skills as well. Cross class comparisons are flimsy at best, so you can only really look a things mechanic wise. If engineers had weapon swap, they’d have the potential to have far more skills than any class. Rev with swap has 10 weapon skills+10 utility/heal/elite for a total of 20, which is par for the course. Engineer with weapon swap could potentially have 10 weapon skills+5 toolbelt skills+25 kit skills for a total of 40. Obviously running 5 kits isn’t the best idea, but many builds run at least 2 and sometimes up to 4. Even with just 1 kit you’d already have the same number of skills as most other classes if you had weapon swap.

Engineer could use a few bug fixes and changes, but weapon swap isn’t one of them. Not to mention we don’t even know what the Forge skills are like. All the bots could be long range attackers, or hammer could have tons of gap closers, etc. But saying Class A should have X because Class B has X too is a sure-fire way to remove diversity.

Rezzet.3614:

Necrotize.2974:

Rezzet.3614:

CURRENTLY engineer does not need weaponswap However when FOrge or whatever spec comes out engineer Will need weapon swap because from what i see forge= hammer+6 new floating bots ( of wich you ll be able to equip 3 at a time, 4 if there s a healing one and 6 if somehow theres an elite one) engineer will need weapon swap to have a ranged alternative .

So if you purposefully limit yourself to only new skills by filling up all your utility slots you deserve a weapon swap? That makes no sense. It’s essentially the same as saying Warrior should be able to swap between 3 weapons because if they take GS+Hammer they have no ranged option. Even if all the bots are useful, I seriously doubt it’ll be worth taking one for each Utility/Heal/Elite slot over even just 1 kit.

Taking Forge doesn’t force you to take the floating bots. If Forge got weapon swap, there’d be almost no reason to take the bots anyway because you could make a beastly build using Rifle+Pistol/Shield and the normal 2-3 kits.

not saying purposely limit ourselves but why give us new skills at all if we wont be able to use them successfully to begin with ?
Ranger is successful with greatsword because they already have pets for ccing and a 3000 effective range longbow on their same kit , their invulnerability also allows them to use skills while active unlike engi’s or eles

so forge will just offer Hammer on a ranged class and useless Bots that will mostt likely be destroyable like turrets

so please Elaborate how exactly would engineer be game breaking by being able to have weapon swap

right now even without the new spec if we had weapon swap one of our weapons would be useless damagewise pistol= condi damage rifle= power so at most on a power build you’d use pistol and shield for its shields and on a condi build rifle for the blunderbuss bleeds the immobilize and the overcharge cc break

Because as I said, giving weapon swap would allow builds that have no real intention of running the bots to add yet another weapon to their kitten nal. You’d basically just be trading a trait line for the ability to use Hammer in addition to Rifle plus 2-4 kits. If we look at their reasoning for giving Revenant weapon swap, it is because it was literally impossible for Rev to get both ranged and melee into one build. For engineer and Forge, it won’t be impossible because you can always slot in a kit to fulfill whatever type of combat you’re lacking.

Rezzet.3614:

CURRENTLY engineer does not need weaponswap However when FOrge or whatever spec comes out engineer Will need weapon swap because from what i see forge= hammer+6 new floating bots ( of wich you ll be able to equip 3 at a time, 4 if there s a healing one and 6 if somehow theres an elite one) engineer will need weapon swap to have a ranged alternative .

So if you purposefully limit yourself to only new skills by filling up all your utility slots you deserve a weapon swap? That makes no sense. It’s essentially the same as saying Warrior should be able to swap between 3 weapons because if they take GS+Hammer they have no ranged option. Even if all the bots are useful, I seriously doubt it’ll be worth taking one for each Utility/Heal/Elite slot over even just 1 kit.

Taking Forge doesn’t force you to take the floating bots. If Forge got weapon swap, there’d be almost no reason to take the bots anyway because you could make a beastly build using Rifle+Pistol/Shield and the normal 2-3 kits.

The game isn’t balanced around 1v1’s, be it SPvP or WvW. If such a mode was created, it would likely need to have it’s own balancing rules and mode specific changes to traits/sigils/runes/skills/etc. Otherwise it’d just rain down unnecessary nerfs/buffs on anyone not interested in playing 1v1. Stealth and bunkers would probably be nerfed into the ground in the first week.

Removes counterplay so probably not the best idea. Cover conditions are what help make burst condi builds effective. If you blow all your cds to get your big damage conditions up like Burning/Torment/Confusion then pile on bleeds/poison/etc to protect it, you shouldn’t be punished by having your dps destroyed because the other person wasn’t fast enough to cleanse the important things.

Condi transfers use the sender’s stats because otherwise it would probably have weird interactions with Might on the original person and potentially with PvE bosses that apply hard hitting conditions. At least that’s my guess. It’s a double edged sword honestly. It makes transfers more powerful for condi builds, but weaker for Power builds, which makes sense. Thematically, you could say the conditions get stronger because you’re channeling your own power through them in order to send them back.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Necrotize.2974:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Elementalists have burning as their single condition.

This is untrue. D/D ele has access to Chill, Immob, Burning, Bleeding, Weakness, and Cripple on weapon skills, Blinds on Evasive Arcana, and potentially poison if running doom sigils.

Besides bleeding none of these conditions do any damage, so burning is the only damaging conditions eles and guards have. Eles have 1 bleed skill and no trait support.

As I said, the biggest weakness of burning is that classes that stack it usually don’t follow up with cover condtions. Eles have the earth autoattack and Earther 2 to apply bleeds as well as dodge roll in Evasive Arcana since Earth 5 is almost never worth using. It doesn’t really matter how many bleeds you’re stacking most of the time because burn is the better damaging condition. Any other conditions will just be to cover the burns before they’re cleansed. That’s the exact reason Burn guard isn’t listed as even “Great” on metabattle. They have to use Sigils to get just 2 cover conditions quickly. A majority of the time I’ll just wait till the burn guard puts above 6 stacks on me, then cleanse it. That puts their opener and most reliable part of the burst on a 45 second cd with next to no damage dealt. Purging Flames is just the Ring of Fire thing all over again. It may sound harsh, but this really does seem to be a l2p issue for people.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Elementalists have burning as their single condition.

This is untrue. D/D ele has access to Chill, Immob, Burning, Bleeding, Weakness, and Cripple on weapon skills, Blinds on Evasive Arcana, and potentially poison if running doom sigils.

Guard also technically has more conditions, but they are usually bleeds/poison from sigils. Only ones on their weapons are blind and immob.

So they don’t have high access to damaging conditions(ele has some with bleeds), but if you’re going for burn burst, it doesn’t really matter what condis you apply after burn, just as long as you apply cover condis.

Celestial is not great on engi anymore btw. You just end up with subpar damage and subpar survivability, which is why most opt for either Soldier or Marauder to increase defense or damage respectively.

ronpierce.2760:

Necrotize.2974:

I love when people complain about Ring of Fire. It’s not like it is giant burning circle of fire that is very visible and only applies a lot of burning when you walk back and forth over it…oh wait, that’s exactly what it is. I have honestly never had Ring of Fire apply more than 3 stacks to me. But what I have seen is a ton of people trying to kite the elementalist in and out of the ring over and over. OP burning didn’t kill you, the ele didn’t kill you, that’s as close to killing yourself you can get without jumping off a cliff.

Burn is strong, but honestly I prefer it now that classes can’t really get away with running 0 condition removal and just bursting condi builds down before really dying. Obviously some classes will struggle more with conditions, but that isn’t for lack of options. People just don’t want to change their build because it worked before.

With cele gear and maybe a few might that’s 3 stacks for 5 seconds, which equates to 4500 dmg (after initial impact) fora. Single application. No need to walk back and forth for it to be highly effective. And in a game where you’re forced to fight on a point, a 50% uptime ring that can deal 4500 damage with one application is a lot of haphazard damage. Elementalistd like to throw around buzzwords like “learn2play” then defend the easiest haphazard damage field in the game, also ignoring the fact that they have an extended melted range. If they dance around their fire rings, it becomes much less of a “l2p” issue. People can’t just spam evades/dodge roles everything they need to cross a line that has 50% uptime.

Why is it that a everyone else has to learn to play, or so they like to say, but Elementalists don’t, and get to keep their massive silly haphazard damage. I’m sure anyone would like a 50% uptime ring that has the capability of doing 4.5k damage every time someone ends up hitting it on a point fight…

Burning is pretty much the only constantly threatening condition and it is only applied by ele’s while they’re in Fire Attunement(save for Cleansing Fire). Even with only one cleanse, waiting till the ele leaves fire or uses their main fire skills to cleanse isn’t that hard. In fact, the biggest damage dealers for Cele ele are in fire, condi or power.

I don’t really play much ele much, but I fight them pretty frequently and burning is rarely the issue. At worst, they stack burns on me, I eat one tick then cleanse them. If the burns are ticking on you for the full duration, then you’re either not running enough removal(thus not adapting to the meta) or you got outplayed. Prior to the change, conditions as a whole felt kinda underwhelming unless you could apply a lot of different conditions all at once, now at least there’s some bursting potential. Too many people are just clutching onto their pre-patch builds and don’t run nearly enough condition removal and still expect to be strong against classes that pack on the burns.

I love when people complain about Ring of Fire. It’s not like it is giant burning circle of fire that is very visible and only applies a lot of burning when you walk back and forth over it…oh wait, that’s exactly what it is. I have honestly never had Ring of Fire apply more than 3 stacks to me. But what I have seen is a ton of people trying to kite the elementalist in and out of the ring over and over. OP burning didn’t kill you, the ele didn’t kill you, that’s as close to killing yourself you can get without jumping off a cliff.

Burn is strong, but honestly I prefer it now that classes can’t really get away with running 0 condition removal and just bursting condi builds down before really dying. Obviously some classes will struggle more with conditions, but that isn’t for lack of options. People just don’t want to change their build because it worked before.

If I understand correctly, the best rune setup would be 5 Nightmare runes and then 1 of something else(I’ve seen 1x Rune of Antitoxin or 1x Chrysocola Orb) since the full set nightmare rune bonus doesn’t actually boost your damage, just provides fear.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

But still another great testimony to Ele OPness.

Even during the nuclear burn meta, the Ele is uncontested vs. condition builds.

Not really… the meta cele ele build doesn’t even run earth most of the time. Diamond skin is a problem for pure condi builds, but if you can’t get an ele below 90% before blowing all your cds, then you kinda put all your eggs in one basket and payed the price.

Even if the meta build swapped in Earth(which they sometimes do) it is usually taking Stone Heart to protect against builds heavily reliant on crits for passable damage, which is most marauders.

Ele is fairly strong in many matchups for several reasons, but Diamond Skin is not one of them.

Just thought I’d share since I found it funny(although others have probably realized too), but attempting to use a material node like a tree or some ore while holding a kit prevents you from switching to the mining/logging/harvesting tool you have equipped. Instead you just use your kit. Kinda funny to start chopping down a tree by swinging your flamethrower at it.

Was playing earlier today just fine. Log in again, everything is fine, even zone into the map I was previously in. Then it becomes apparent that I’m not actually connected to anything. Open up options and results vary from ping in the two thousands or just listed as 0. It was working fine for me literally an hour ago.

Sifu.9745:

Video has been deleted: And i don’t understand what op wants to say. I really have no idea what the word “sheath” means? English is not my mother’s language.

Anyway Mesmer GS aa is completely bugged: i get some huge numbers if i just channel auto attack for 10 + seconds on a training dummy: starts with something around 900 dmg per first hit and after that every other hit i get increased numbers, something like 1280 – 2200 – 3400 – 4000 -5000 -……-12000! Lol. 12k with aa??? What are these numbers? I’m sure they are not damaging numbers, otherwise i would kill anything within seconds just with auto atttacking it.

That is the total amount of damage. The game will keep ticking up the number provided all your hits occur within a certain time frame(and I think are from the same skill), which the GS auto attack does. Because of this, you can just auto attack forever to see the damage counter go up and up. It is not the damage of each hit, just the total amount of uninterrupted damage done with the auto attack.

Maybe a trait that gives mantras +1 charge whenever an enemy is killed. If they die while you have no charges, the mantras are immediately recharged. This would make it useful across all game modes without necessarily rewarding sloppy usage of mantras.

While in Heart of the Mists, there should be two little icons in the top center of your screen. One that looks like the PvP icon(crossed swords) and another that looks like a helmet. Click the helmet and it should take you to your PvP build tab where you can change traits, amulets, runes and sigils.

Teutos.8620:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

.. Some new gamemodes.

This would not solve the problem.

People are always complaining.

Build A is OP in scenario B / gamemode C, please nerf!

The mentality we players have in gw2 regarding balancing is completely different than in the other popular pvp games (specially mobas). We have ‘our’ profession which should be viable in any team constellation no matter what the opponents are playing.

In e.g. lol/dota/smite the players would try to counterpick and try to get a viable, well balanced team constellation. In gw2: we are crying when we get killed from condi damage even tho we chose to use a build without a single condi remove.

How do solve this problem? I don’t know. Maybe hoping the balance team do a far better job than any other team out there, and introduce a perfectly balanced game; or we have to change our own mentality, adjust our build and not just copy it from the top player or even sometimes switch the profession if necessary.

So much this. It’s hilarious too because recently I’ve run into so many people running literally copy-pasted meta battle builds that get super salty when they die to some random Carrion build I threw together. Been called “condi cancer”, “condi cheese”, “ezmode condi” and several other not so nice things. Best part? If I’m in hotjoin I check their build after the match(assuming they actually stay till the end) or if I’m in Ranked/Unranked I just pay attention to what they seem to be running and a majority of the time they aren’t running a single skill/trait to deal with condis. Mesmers are the biggest offender of this, which surprises me why people complain so much about them. Make either carrion or rabid and you not only can survive their burst fairly easily, but you can also pile on conditions so fast that even if they go into stealth they’re still gonna die. High poison uptime+something tankier than zerker/marauder just destroys the glassy PU mesmers that copy+paste from Metabattle.

The fact that builds with so few cleanses and the general favoritism of Toughness over Vitality shows that conditions aren’t represented too well. Probably has something to do with sites like metabattle listing the specs run by pro players, who have entire party slots dedicated to their team’s condition removal. But when you jump into un/ranked or hotjoin and everyone is running Celestial or Marauder, conditions are gonna do just fine.

Why though?… Vigor and reflect aren’t the same thing and reflects are kinda mesmers thing. Vigor isn’t ranger’s thing though. They also function fairly differently. Vigor on evade gives you more endurance to dodge with. Evasive Mirror is just added augmenting our dodge roll. Mesmer is built around capitalizing on mistakes and sloppy play. It’ll only really punish people who mindless spam ranged attacks after realizing that the mesmer is running Evasive Mirror. Vigor pretty much just punishes anyone not running boonstrips.

Cross class comparisons are already flimsy, but just a few logical errors here. Evasive Mirror is a master trait, competing with Blinding Dissipation, which is part of the reason it isn’t always taken. Primal Reflexes is an adept trait that only competes with Trap Synergy and Condi synergy, so if you aren’t running condis, Primal Reflexes will likely be the only real option there. Vigor is a boon, so it is affected by boon duration. Mirror is not so it is locked at 1.5 seconds. Very different.

Yeah, burning is strong but I don’t see how you’re getting 17 stacks from a D/D ele unless you were just running back and forth through Ring of Fire the entire time.

People acting like Phantasms from stealth are gonna oneshot you… Seriously, if they’re just camping in stealth and summoning phantasms, you’d have to be brain dead to die to that, because you literally just died to AI. Too bad that thought running through most people’s heads it seems is “No mesmer to target? Guess I better stand here doing nothing while clones and phantasms pop up around me”.

Exaggerations mixed with flat-out lies/misunderstandings of class mechanics seem to be like 90% of the complaining. I mean, just a few days ago someone tried to start a thread for shock value saying that Confusing Images doesn’t break stealth, despite such a thing being incredibly easy to test in like 3 seconds. Did other mesmers shut them down? Yes. Do I also think that some random people may have just looked at the title and accepted it as fact? Absolutely. People are so willing to complain because it is a heck of a lot easier than actually than actually taking the time to learn the class.

And people will still bring up the other unfinished elite specs to try and destroy the only one that was done close to right. Chronomancer already shares a lot of functionality with Dueling, which almost all mesmer builds take. Nerf it too much and it’ll literally just be a worse version of dueling that’ll only be taken for the F5, if that. Why not make suggestions to improve the other elite specs(after all, wasn’t that the point of the beta?) instead of trying to tear down the one elite spec that actually felt useful. Hard to get a good judge of Chronomancer when Rev and the other Elite Specs are just lackluster for PvP on their own, but I guess that won’t stop people from trying to use it as an excuse to get unneeded nerfs.

People also conveniently forget that PU mesmers actually need to run that trait, so if they want to go for burst from stealth and have chronomancer’s stuff, they leave themselves with only one trait line that pretty much needs to be damage focused. So their only pseudo-defense line is Chaos and stealth is likely their only trait based defense. Conditions have been a strong counter to mesmers for quite a while, but sadly everyone wants to run glassy power builds and still be able to outperform a build designed to ambush glassy power builds. Heck, even when I run conditions, I still get kitten like “lol ur running cancer condi build noob” or “condi builds are ezmode scrub”, then those same people whine and complain when their Marauder build goes down in seconds because their whole strategy is burst before you get bursted. Chronomancer has this condition weakness compounded even more because it takes up a trait line and offers no way(save the well trait) to interact with conditions. The F5 does not remove or reset conditions so it cannot be used to avoid them.

Not to mention a lot of people complaining already didn’t fully understand mesmer mechanics. Obviously adding in more, let alone one as complex as continuum split, will just make their heads explode. I’ve actually had multiple people complain about it because they said double heals and double blink are OP and they honestly failed to see the issue with health changing skills/long distance movement skills and a skill that resets both health and location.

Too bad the game isn’t balanced around solo roaming. If you were wiping a zerg, it’d be a problem. But other classes can stealth/out run zergs or just Invuln long enough to waypoint if they want. In the zerg v zerg fights of WvW, PU mesmer likely will be offering almost nothing, especially since the group support wells won’t allow you to be in stealth anyway.

With how strong some of the transform elites are(mostly rampage, Lich form is less of an issue but still needs to be dealt with), double Moa really isn’t as OP as you think, especially since it’s best to have Moa off cd for when the enemy warrior eventually rampages. Using Continuum Split purely to Moa again is honestly a waste compared to the damage/party support you could provide in that time. Moa also has a 1 second cast time, can be blocked, evaded, invulned and get stopped by line of sight.

People just like complaining about Moa despite it’s obvious counterplay. If it had a shorter casttime I’d maybe sympathize, but it’s a single target elite, you should be punished for not avoiding it.

Or they could just alter Hotjoin so that players less enthusiastic about PvP still have a place to accomplish things. Remove the ability to spectate, rejoin a team, switch teams, or even force people to join in pairs(to prevent lopsided teams).

Like it or not, some people don’t always have time for queues and only really join PvP to get dailies done. Removing that will likely just make many stop PvPing altogether. Since Ranked and Unranked are effectively the same atm, it’ll just make it more likely for those previous hotjoin players to get matched up against more organized teams and get completely curb stomped.

A good solution should actually fix the problems, not just basically delete everything associated with them.

I’d say it is a fair tradeoff and opens up some nice counterplay. If they really want to channel a block for 6 seconds while I’ve got Alacrity ticking away, that’s fine by me. By the same note, it prevents mesmers from mindlessly spamming Slow before a burst/in the middle of a fight and makes it more of a “Use when needed” kind of thing.

The movement skill thing should probably be fixed though since they removed Swiftness/Cripple/Chill’s effect on movement skills.

Without it, it’d make even attempting to rezz anyone almost pointless(especially in the middle of a group fight). Can’t really say its a crutch when literally every player has access to it whether they like it or not and all teams can abuse it regardless of builds, class or gear. It is part of the game so I guess it’d be best to just adapt to it since I doubt it’s going anywhere.

You can still focus the rezzers though obviously, which is arguably better. You could focus the downed person and potentially kill them without a stomp, leaving the rest of their teammates still fighting, or you focus the rezzer and end up with 2 people downed and make it very unlikely either will get back up.

I’d also suspect it was mostly with PvE in mind to prevent you from getting downed then instantly killed by the same AoE, especially since rezzing a fully dead person takes forever, even out of combat.

If you hit anything with those 6 shatters in a row and they’re not a golem or afk, they deserved to be hit. The fact that you bring it up makes me wonder what types of player’s you’re used to fighting.

Not to mention Slow is super easy to take advantage of for the affected player. I believe someone already mentioned that channeled blocks and evades all are affected by slow, greatly increasing their duration. I haven’t tested this personally, but I definitely noticed a slowed Gear Shield lasting for quite a while longer than normal. IIRC, movement based skills(like warrior GS skills) travel much farther while under the effects of slow for some reason.

If all you’re contributing to your team is GS auto-damage+high slow uptime on a single target, then you might as well be an empty team slot compared to a mesmer actually playing.

Michaeas Magister.1589:

ronpierce.2760:

tobascodagama.2961:

EremiteAngel.9765:

all the chrono haters, just learn to interrupt the F5.
its more L2P than an OP issue.

GW2 players obviously don’t want to learn anything, though.

Including Elemntalists and Mesmers, why try harder when you can just have it easy, am I right?

Agreed. I think the best thing GW2 players can learn about PvP in GW2 is that ArenaNet will ALWAYS break some class to the point of making it OP and will keep it there for about six months or so. So you might as well just play that class (on easy mode) rather than waiting for them to actually get any kind of balance in play.

Alternatively, you could just learn to play another game for PvP where they actually take steps against exploits, make reasonable balance passes, and try to keep a level playing field for everyone involved. There are actually quite a few of those out there.

Try Dragon Nest. Fair warning though. the PvP community is toxic and makes the PvP forums here look like a bag full of rainbows, kittens and sunshine.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BujuG3Nm0as

ayup

If you’re trying to get at what I think you’re getting at, here we go:

Hmm…a mesmer supplied with 25 stacks of might, running 2 wells and a full dps build managed to kill a stationary target very quickly. If you think is applicable to anything but PvE then I question the types of players you’re used to fighting. Plus the warrior is attacking through the whole thing in order to maintain those might stacks.

It’s stuff like this that makes it very hard to take anything you say seriously.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Necrotize.2974:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Necrotize.2974:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Necrotize.2974:

It is the main class mechanic associated with the F1 through F5 skills on each class.

So by that logic, steal would be the main thief mechanic, right? Not initiative?
Or toolbelt skills are the main engi mechanic, and kit is just subsidiary?
The mistake of everyone who insists that shatter is “the” class mechanic of mesmers is believing that there is only one main mechanic, or that only one mechanic is worthy of being the focus of a build.
The problem with shatters versus phantasms is that phantasms and shatters are in conflict by their nature. Chronophantasma brings those two closer together, but it doesn’t fix the problem completely.
I took exception to the claim that builds that don’t shatter much “shouldn’t” exist, when builds based largely on phantasms have in the past been pretty fun and useful. It’s only post-patch that it has become too hard to make such a build effective, and that’s a bad thing.

Necrotize.2974:

Anet has stated that many of the changes came about because they didn’t like that certain mesmer builds weren’t shattering clones/phantasms and just overwriting them haphazardly. I believe they even stated that all mesmer build should use shatters to some extent, which was part of their reasoning for Chronomancer’s phantasms and clone production traits( as well as the traits not being in conflicting tiers).

Anet is mostly wrong. Yes everyone should be willing to shatter when relevant, but it is wrong to eliminate a fun build type just because they made the same mistake you are making.

Steal is the mechanic, initiative could be considered it as well since it is in the same place. Steal has more traits applicable to it than the other mechanics for thief and initiative regen is also found quite frequently, sometimes even in conjunction with several stealth traits.

Toolbelt skills are the main mechanic in that every engineer has them, every engineer should use them, and more traits affect toolbelt skills than anything else. Kits just happen to be way better than most other utility options for engineer in most builds. Static discharge build run 1 kit usually and rely heavily on toolbelt skills. But even builds with 3 kits rely on their toolbelt skills.

I’m not saying mesmers have only one class mechanic, I’m simply saying shatter is the main one in that all builds can utilize it to at least some extent, and Anet wants it to be usable for all mesmers. You can say Anet is wrong, but if that’s how they see it, that’s how they’re gonna balance things. It isn’t even a close competition between how prevalent shatter traits are compared to illusions or manipulations or anything else really. Combining minor and major traits across all the lines, there are 18 shatter-centric traits, with most of them being major traits and 5 of them being Grandmaster traits.

It’s a long, long way from saying “that’s how it is” to “that’s how it should be”.
The latter is what I’m criticizing so harshly, but many people can’t seem to see the logical flaw in conflating the two.

I suppose, but to give all mechanics present a class equal representation, it would either remove a ton of traits for the current main mechanics or add so many for the under-represented ones that we’d need years to test and see them all balanced. I’m all for new traits, but trying to put smaller mechanics like utility types or weapon skill types on par with the trait support for F1-F5 skills seems really unlikely on Anet’s part.

I’d settle for letting phantasm builds actually function, since that’s a build that actually existed in the past, and many people (myself included) are fond of.

I liked it for a while too, but if Anet really is trying to incorporate shatters into baseline mesmer playstyles and discourage summoning illusions/overwriting them, I don’t think it’s likely a pure phantasm build will come back. Although Chronophantasma does make it a fairly strong option on it’s own. I think a good step up would be improving phantasms individually, namely the utility slot ones. Make iDefender taunt upon creation or make iDisenchanter more reliable to hit/increase its range or something.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Necrotize.2974:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Necrotize.2974:

It is the main class mechanic associated with the F1 through F5 skills on each class.

So by that logic, steal would be the main thief mechanic, right? Not initiative?
Or toolbelt skills are the main engi mechanic, and kit is just subsidiary?
The mistake of everyone who insists that shatter is “the” class mechanic of mesmers is believing that there is only one main mechanic, or that only one mechanic is worthy of being the focus of a build.
The problem with shatters versus phantasms is that phantasms and shatters are in conflict by their nature. Chronophantasma brings those two closer together, but it doesn’t fix the problem completely.
I took exception to the claim that builds that don’t shatter much “shouldn’t” exist, when builds based largely on phantasms have in the past been pretty fun and useful. It’s only post-patch that it has become too hard to make such a build effective, and that’s a bad thing.

Necrotize.2974:

Anet has stated that many of the changes came about because they didn’t like that certain mesmer builds weren’t shattering clones/phantasms and just overwriting them haphazardly. I believe they even stated that all mesmer build should use shatters to some extent, which was part of their reasoning for Chronomancer’s phantasms and clone production traits( as well as the traits not being in conflicting tiers).

Anet is mostly wrong. Yes everyone should be willing to shatter when relevant, but it is wrong to eliminate a fun build type just because they made the same mistake you are making.

Steal is the mechanic, initiative could be considered it as well since it is in the same place. Steal has more traits applicable to it than the other mechanics for thief and initiative regen is also found quite frequently, sometimes even in conjunction with several stealth traits.

Toolbelt skills are the main mechanic in that every engineer has them, every engineer should use them, and more traits affect toolbelt skills than anything else. Kits just happen to be way better than most other utility options for engineer in most builds. Static discharge build run 1 kit usually and rely heavily on toolbelt skills. But even builds with 3 kits rely on their toolbelt skills.

I’m not saying mesmers have only one class mechanic, I’m simply saying shatter is the main one in that all builds can utilize it to at least some extent, and Anet wants it to be usable for all mesmers. You can say Anet is wrong, but if that’s how they see it, that’s how they’re gonna balance things. It isn’t even a close competition between how prevalent shatter traits are compared to illusions or manipulations or anything else really. Combining minor and major traits across all the lines, there are 18 shatter-centric traits, with most of them being major traits and 5 of them being Grandmaster traits.

It’s a long, long way from saying “that’s how it is” to “that’s how it should be”.
The latter is what I’m criticizing so harshly, but many people can’t seem to see the logical flaw in conflating the two.

I suppose, but to give all mechanics present a class equal representation, it would either remove a ton of traits for the current main mechanics or add so many for the under-represented ones that we’d need years to test and see them all balanced. I’m all for new traits, but trying to put smaller mechanics like utility types or weapon skill types on par with the trait support for F1-F5 skills seems really unlikely on Anet’s part.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Necrotize.2974:

It is the main class mechanic associated with the F1 through F5 skills on each class.

So by that logic, steal would be the main thief mechanic, right? Not initiative?
Or toolbelt skills are the main engi mechanic, and kit is just subsidiary?
The mistake of everyone who insists that shatter is “the” class mechanic of mesmers is believing that there is only one main mechanic, or that only one mechanic is worthy of being the focus of a build.
The problem with shatters versus phantasms is that phantasms and shatters are in conflict by their nature. Chronophantasma brings those two closer together, but it doesn’t fix the problem completely.
I took exception to the claim that builds that don’t shatter much “shouldn’t” exist, when builds based largely on phantasms have in the past been pretty fun and useful. It’s only post-patch that it has become too hard to make such a build effective, and that’s a bad thing.

Necrotize.2974:

Anet has stated that many of the changes came about because they didn’t like that certain mesmer builds weren’t shattering clones/phantasms and just overwriting them haphazardly. I believe they even stated that all mesmer build should use shatters to some extent, which was part of their reasoning for Chronomancer’s phantasms and clone production traits( as well as the traits not being in conflicting tiers).

Anet is mostly wrong. Yes everyone should be willing to shatter when relevant, but it is wrong to eliminate a fun build type just because they made the same mistake you are making.

Steal is the mechanic, initiative could be considered it as well since it is in the same place. Steal has more traits applicable to it than the other mechanics for thief and initiative regen is also found quite frequently, sometimes even in conjunction with several stealth traits.

Toolbelt skills are the main mechanic in that every engineer has them, every engineer should use them, and more traits affect toolbelt skills than anything else. Kits just happen to be way better than most other utility options for engineer in most builds. Static discharge build run 1 kit usually and rely heavily on toolbelt skills. But even builds with 3 kits rely on their toolbelt skills.

I’m not saying mesmers have only one class mechanic, I’m simply saying shatter is the main one in that all builds can utilize it to at least some extent, and Anet wants it to be usable for all mesmers. You can say Anet is wrong, but if that’s how they see it, that’s how they’re gonna balance things. It isn’t even a close competition between how prevalent shatter traits are compared to illusions or manipulations or anything else really. Combining minor and major traits across all the lines, there are 18 shatter-centric traits, with most of them being major traits and 5 of them being Grandmaster traits.

Sykper.6583:

Actually I have a question to all Mesmers.

Do you feel like Chronomancer carries the ‘alternative’ playstyle to your profession or does it ‘improve’ upon Mesmer? Can you explain why in either case? Just curious.

I think for PvE it is a strict improvement. Being able to shatter phantasms, double Ice Storm, and provide party wide alacrity(albeit scarcely) will be a great boost to dungeon mesmers.

PvP is isn’t so clear just yet. On one hand I want to say it improve simply because it’s new, it’s exciting, and not a lot of people can counter it yet. As people become familiar with it though, it’ll lose some of that. Long term I’d say it adds depth and enables an alternate playstyle(phantasm centric builds and potentially bunkers) that were previously weak on mesmer. Because of trait functionality overlap, Chronomancy can be taken instead of Dueling pretty easily, but replacing another trait line in a build is unlikely without creating some weaknesses. Overall, it provides something unique, but not strictly better than base mesmer.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Embolism.8106:

I’d be hesitant to give Mesmers more Alacrity as ATM Alacrity is really strong for a constant Shattering build, and IMO it should NOT cater to non-Shattering builds: builds that don’t use our profession mechanic shouldn’t exist.

I’m getting tired of making this point to you people, but here goes:

SHATTER IS NOT OUR PROFESSION MECHANIC

It is ONE OF our profession mechanic S. PLURAL.

Phantasms are also a profession mechanic. Enabling phant builds to shatter more is great, but tbh, straight phantasm builds SHOULD be allowed to exist.
In short, you are wrong in your pro-shatter bigotry.

It is the main class mechanic associated with the F1 through F5 skills on each class. These mechanics are usually more heavily represented in a class’ trait line to emphasize this. Additionally, Anet has stated that many of the changes came about because they didn’t like that certain mesmer builds weren’t shattering clones/phantasms and just overwriting them haphazardly. I believe they even stated that all mesmer build should use shatters to some extent, which was part of their reasoning for Chronomancer’s phantasms and clone production traits( as well as the traits not being in conflicting tiers).

Lettuce.2945:

Necrotize.2974:

duster.7013:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Chronophantasma? Destroy phantasms when they cluster together and stool there in daze.
Continuum Shift? Destroy the weak rift.
Slow from GS? Why are you giving him chance to spam GS auto on you?

Is this a parody or something? Allow me to use all the revs extremely interruptible aoe burst defensively so I get kitten d less quickly by the enemy mesmer. Also, go play revenant and find me a way to deal with gs auto.

Rev is still being tuned up and hasn’t even made it into the non-beta game. Using it as a comparison would make almost any class look OP, especially since no one has really had enough playtime with the new changes to really get a strong understanding of the class and how it fits into the meta. I’m sorry, but you’re just purposefully setting up the situation to make mesmer look stronger than it really is without really understanding it.

Anyone who really understands the game can pretty much gauge what will happen almost immediately with builds. Like chronomancer, I see a lot of issues with it if they don’t adjust the amount of slow applications on HoT release…I can already see that it will need to be toned down especially in conjunction with PU. Slow is really strong when used right. Revs seem a bit weak atm though. We’ll have to see though. But that’s why I’m glad this is beta weekend, not the actual release of HoT. So we can provide constructive feedback. I think there definitely needs to be an icd on the slow traits in chronomancy for sure.

While tempest is definitely underwhelming, it doesn’t change the fact that eles still need to be toned down. We all already know this one though. But right now, since this is beta weekend, we all need to provide input on chronomancers before it gets released. It’ll be too strong. Mark my words. I warned everyone as well about the eles being too strong (as an ele main myself) before the new trait system even came out. And guess what, I was right. The same will happen for chronomancers if nothing’s done.

Slow is mainly only powerful when it is stacked consistently. As it is a condition, builds with ample removal shouldn’t be slowed 100% of the time. The ICD could be increased a bit, but then you risk making slow much less effective for any build not build around it entirely, kinda like how Alacrity really only makes a big difference if you’re spamming it off cd from multiple sources. The builds capable of maintaining high slow uptime don’t really have any leeway when it comes to Chrono traits, they’re all set in stone pretty much. On interrupt is fine because it requires timing and usage of a valuable interrupt. Lost Time can be timed since anyone can see how many charges you have. I haven’t been able to test if it fails on evaded attacks like Doom/Leeching sigils do.

Saying Chrono will be OP with PU is a bit of a stretch too because it means you’re taking Chrono+Chaos and leave only 1 trait line for what you’re build is lacking. Probably shouldn’t be dueling since it overlaps with Chrono in functionality, Inspiration means you only have 1 psuedo-dps line, and domination helps an interrupt build that you can’t run Chaotic Interrupt with and Illusions has The Pledge for condi removal and great stealth uptime. You have to give up a lot of good things just to get PU and Chronomancy, but just because they’re together doesn’t instantly make it a good build.

Page Bug fix things~

Plus if you actually hit someone with all those shatters that you pretty much need to spam off cd to get them all in, your opponent is either afk or really bad at fighting mesmers, and probably any other class for that matter.

Misguided.5139:

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I will keep beating this drum if necessary. I think the biggest issue right now is that the shatter, which I think the vast majority will agree is very strong, is basically a freebie. Making the shatter an elite skill would give it a much higher opportunity cost by taking away 2x time warp. In fact, I think many would keep Time Warp instead. I hope they will consider that option if they think something needs to change.

I already made a thread explaining the many uses and drawbacks of Continuum Split. Making it an elite makes little sense as the elite specs are designed to change or add to the class’ current mechanic. Honestly if you’re just using F5 to get a second Time Warp, you’re not really using it to the full potential. It is strong, but it isn’t strong on its own and adds a huge amount of depth to mesmers.

alexei.9364:

alexei.9364:

I’ll refrain from commenting on the original question, but something I haven’t seen mentioned so far: Try out a damage rotation with persistence of memory + chronophantasma. There’s nothing quite like it.

It’s bugged to not work with shield 4, though.

That was one of the setups I had planned to test for this weekend.
It works out decently, but frankly you don’t actually get all that many shatters out of it.
I mean, you get more than you used to, but I didn’t find that I wkittentering enough to feel like it was a huge dps boost.
And on my condi spec, none of the phantasms apply enough condis to feel it worth forgoing the extra dps from more than 1 shatter at a time.

The point isn’t more shatters, it’s that there is now no opportunity cost to the shatters that you have.

The phantasm dps you lose from the shatter runtime+daze is more or less made up for by the resummon (it resets attack cooldowns), and the 12s reduction in phantasm skills paired with illusionist’s celerity means you can basically cast phantasms without cooldown.

Chronophantasma + persistence of memory lets us have phantasm dps and shatter dps at the same time, which is not something we’ve ever had before.

Yeah, it’s not something we’ve had before, and it made Phantasms very fragile and clunky at the same time. This is an issue in pretty much all game modes. You pretty much had to ignore your shatter skills completely if you had more than 1 phantasm out because they weren’t worth shattering. Phantasms still die easily to cleave, but now they don’t soft-lock us out of our class skills.

There is still an opportunity cost to shatters because spamming your shatters just because you have 1 clone out never was(and still isn’t) a viable way to deal damage against even average players. Chronophantasma is a grand master trait, it’s supposed to be build defining. And it does just that. It allows phantasms to function in PvP for more than a single attack. You can’t just ignore phantasms and clones anymore like so many people are used to.

duster.7013:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Chronophantasma? Destroy phantasms when they cluster together and stool there in daze.
Continuum Shift? Destroy the weak rift.
Slow from GS? Why are you giving him chance to spam GS auto on you?

Is this a parody or something? Allow me to use all the revs extremely interruptible aoe burst defensively so I get kitten d less quickly by the enemy mesmer. Also, go play revenant and find me a way to deal with gs auto.

Rev is still being tuned up and hasn’t even made it into the non-beta game. Using it as a comparison would make almost any class look OP, especially since no one has really had enough playtime with the new changes to really get a strong understanding of the class and how it fits into the meta. I’m sorry, but you’re just purposefully setting up the situation to make mesmer look stronger than it really is without really understanding it.

apharma.3741:

So, given how most mesmers in WTS had very little impact do you think we’ve seen an end to most of the nerd crys?

Unlikely. People on both sides of the argument will only cite pro players opinions/actions when it suits them. I still maintain that the crying won’t stop until mesmers are literally the same or worse than pre-patch and chronomancer is literally not worth taking in any build.

xDudisx.5914:

@necrotize

Buff all other specs? Will just make the power creep even worse than what it is now.

Buff other specs, change amulets. I still think that amulets weren’t properly balanced to account for the loss of stats from trait lines.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Necrotize.2974:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Necrotize.2974:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Why not just add some cooldown reduction like nearly every other ability-specific trait?

They probably don’t want to infringe on Alacrity territory, especially since both skills on shield have ways to lower their own cds. Probably worried that too much cd reduction on weapons and on traits could result in a weapon with much shorter cds than intended. Also kinda tricky since Shield 4 applies Alacrity, so by extension, a shorter cd on Shield 4 means shorter cds on everything else.

I hear you on the shield, but I’m talking about wells right now. What’s the point of Alacrity if it just replicates the cdr that’s already baked into other builds?
Give wells a cd reduction and the trait for wells will be worthwhile. The lower cooldown will make well builds feel less like you’re wasting all your utility slots, too.

Guess they’re expecting anyone to be using wells to also be using Shield for good Alacrity uptime. Wells really need some functionality change because we knew they’d be iffy from the start. It says something that the one well people thought was gonna be usable was the one that CC’s people to keep them inside, now that’s gone. Maybe make it so you can trait for wells to immobilize upon creation or at the very least cripple/chill. Suppose they work fine if you’re bunkering, but if that’s what they were intended to be used for, don’t know why we can’t trait for more defensive things on wells like protection or condition removal on cast as opposed to 3 seconds later.

Except shield really is not good alacrity uptime. iCap kind of sucks.

Better alacrity uptime than no shield, but I agree. Toying with cd manipulation that isn’t a fixed % on a trait active 100% of the time is tricky though so I’m hoping they find a nice middle ground between flat reduction, alacrity uptime and alacrity application.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Things-to-note-about-Continuum-Shift/first#post5359828

Take it friends. Arm yourselves with knowledge. I’d rather not see mesmer’s elite spec nerfed into the ground or completely changed because your average forum fighter is too lazy to even bother learning how the skill works.

For starters this thread in general just seems to try blowing things out of proportion despite obvious limitations. I’ve yet to see any mesmer running Signet of the Ether in pvp. Trading your heal skill for an extra phantasm is not a good deal if you ask me.

The F5 is instant cast yes. But more often than not the skills used during it aren’t. So you’re just throwing in buzz words to make it sound broken, when in reality you’re just describing the basic functionality of the skill. It’s like the people complaining about “double heals” all over again.

Also, what Ross said. You can’t just ignore Phantasms anymore, just like you can’t ignore a hammer warrior’s CC. If you kill the phantasms before they are shattered, Chronophantasma doesn’t work, so not only did you deprive them of a phantasm+shatter fodder, you just countered their GM trait. Good job! Gold star for you!