Not every class has dozens of stunbreaks ready all the time. Considering there is so much CC spam in the game there are so many things you need to stunbreak already.
I run 1 stunbreak (shs) and it is enough in most cases :P
How could you be so foolish. Didn’t you know it’s the meta to run Shadowstep in two slots, trait for stunbreaking heal and steal, and use your other free utility slot for your second elite.
Not every class has dozens of stunbreaks ready all the time. Considering there is so much CC spam in the game there are so many things you need to stunbreak already.
Who needs dozens when as I said, Impact Strike is literally the only disable you’ll have to look out for. You’re basically saying the ability is OP b/c people can’t be bothered to save a stunbreak, a universally important part of any build. At that point, that’s not even a skill/interaction being OP, that’s just misplaying. You can also dodge the first part of the of the skill to put the whole chain on cd, but that seemed really obvious so I neglected to mention it.
You also act like thief has a million stun breaks. All thieves run Shadowstep, most don’t run anymore than that. Bandit’s Defense is probably the only other stunbreak commonly used.
(edited by Necrotize.2974)
as a person who plays multiple classes but mains a necro i highly disagree.EVEN GUARDIANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM BEING OP.
I am not complaining, I can beat any symbol guardian/dh in like 30 sec with my normal traited DH (gs + lb). Guardian just cant complain of being op cause we got 1 buff in like 3 years and guardians are overwhelmed by it. Buffing is something strange to us.
Could be worse. Want to get nerfed in 99% of the patches for 4 years straight? Roll a thief.
Honestly Cynz, a well played thief is still insanely OP.
Stealth, unmatched mobility, high burst, instant kill elite that skips downed state etc
The nerfs to thief were justifiedRevs have higher burst while also being tanky enough to work well in larger fights.
That “instant kill elite” has a seconds worth of pre-req skills followed by a 1 and a half second cast time on the actual Finishing Blow. Not to mention to take that elite, you have to pass up on Basilisk Venom which is pretty much the only utility a thief can offer to their team at this point.
Stealth in general is only an issue if you’re just ridiculously lazy and unobservant. “Oh the D/P thief disappeared, one can only imagine what he’ll try next”. If the thief stealths mid fight they’re doing one of two things. They’re either preparing to backstab, or running away. With the new 1 sec cd on backstab, dodging or popping Aegis a second after they stealth will almost guarantee they don’t have enough stealth time to backstab you. This isn’t even considering that the only other “meta” thief build literally has 0 access to stealth.
Which leaves mobility. Yes, thieves have a ton of mobility. Heck, most builds even give up more damage just so they can be better at disengaging because at high level play, that’s 85% of your game. You can’t +1 to crack bunkers and there are only 1-2 favorable 1v1 matchups for thieves. You carry your weight not by fighting, but simply by running around and avoiding fights because if you spent more than 20-30 seconds in a fight while the enemy held a point far or home, you actually would’ve been better off just going there instead and going for a free decap.
A well played thief is definitely strong, but pretty much anything else played well could surpass them in every aspect other than mobility(and even Portal takes a fairly huge crack at that). That’s why you don’t see many thieves in Legend/Diamond, because everyone plays their class well and once everyone is close in skill level, thief falls off hard.
Dont forget you are stunned/cant move while the thief uses that elite skill on you.
I wish elite specs were disabled for pvp, pvp was much better off without any of them.
Stun breaks are a thing and without Basilisk Venom, thief really has no stun to open a fight with so once you realize they’re running Impact Strike you know exactly what to look out for. Finishing Blow should pretty much never come as a surprise unless its a huge clustered teamfight, the kind that thieves can’t fight in.
With all those crybabies another nerf is inevitable. So yeah, sure – increase trap cd and make them trigger only when somebody steps on them (also don’t forget to reduce their duration from 5 minutes to like 20 seconds), nerf true shot damage even more, reduce shout cooldowns. Do whatever you want Anet but please, make it PvP changes only. I really don’t want guardian to be in “good spot” for another year.
Welcome to the life of thief. The crybabies never disappear and nerfs every patch.
as a person who plays multiple classes but mains a necro i highly disagree.EVEN GUARDIANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM BEING OP.
I am not complaining, I can beat any symbol guardian/dh in like 30 sec with my normal traited DH (gs + lb). Guardian just cant complain of being op cause we got 1 buff in like 3 years and guardians are overwhelmed by it. Buffing is something strange to us.
Could be worse. Want to get nerfed in 99% of the patches for 4 years straight? Roll a thief.
Honestly Cynz, a well played thief is still insanely OP.
Stealth, unmatched mobility, high burst, instant kill elite that skips downed state etc
The nerfs to thief were justified
Revs have higher burst while also being tanky enough to work well in larger fights.
That “instant kill elite” has a seconds worth of pre-req skills followed by a 1 and a half second cast time on the actual Finishing Blow. Not to mention to take that elite, you have to pass up on Basilisk Venom which is pretty much the only utility a thief can offer to their team at this point.
Stealth in general is only an issue if you’re just ridiculously lazy and unobservant. “Oh the D/P thief disappeared, one can only imagine what he’ll try next”. If the thief stealths mid fight they’re doing one of two things. They’re either preparing to backstab, or running away. With the new 1 sec cd on backstab, dodging or popping Aegis a second after they stealth will almost guarantee they don’t have enough stealth time to backstab you. This isn’t even considering that the only other “meta” thief build literally has 0 access to stealth.
Which leaves mobility. Yes, thieves have a ton of mobility. Heck, most builds even give up more damage just so they can be better at disengaging because at high level play, that’s 85% of your game. You can’t +1 to crack bunkers and there are only 1-2 favorable 1v1 matchups for thieves. You carry your weight not by fighting, but simply by running around and avoiding fights because if you spent more than 20-30 seconds in a fight while the enemy held a point far or home, you actually would’ve been better off just going there instead and going for a free decap.
A well played thief is definitely strong, but pretty much anything else played well could surpass them in every aspect other than mobility(and even Portal takes a fairly huge crack at that). That’s why you don’t see many thieves in Legend/Diamond, because everyone plays their class well and once everyone is close in skill level, thief falls off hard.
I’d honestly settle for tying more unblockable to thief abilities instead of just straight damage/crit buffs. Maybe like “Mug is unblockable, your next 1-3 attacks are unblockable”. This would be a nice buff to dagger offhand and at the same time wouldn’t really benefit D/P enough to make it oppressive. I really hate to say it, but if this was a trait it might be a little OP combined with Bountiful Theft, so it’d likely have to be a competing trait.
What is the point of comparing Mug crits from 4 years ago to the meta now? Back then thief also used to have pretty strong 1v1 and large teamfight potential yet look where we are now.
Here’s a post-HoT screenshot for you.
Mug has a 20% higher coeffient than CnD.
It would be stupid broken, just as it was back in 2012.
This screen shot was taken on a full glass build vs a full glass target with 15-25 stacks of might. Blowing that target a kiss from this build would hit for 4.5k… xD
I know the guy that posted this, ~18k hp is not really glass. Pretty standard as far as thief roaming builds go. He may have had 5 might maybe 10 at most. I’ve had him mug me for 6k before actually buffed out (without signet assassins signet active) . If mug could crit, he’d be doing it for 17k. Think about that for a second, 17k mug. He’d literally mug 90% of most peoples health.
If I’m not mistaken, he’d have ~15 stacks of might when initiating the burst just from activating the 3 signets. I say about 15 because he could easily steal stacks from you or have sigils that could proc more.
(edited by Necrotize.2974)
What is the point of comparing Mug crits from 4 years ago to the meta now? Back then thief also used to have pretty strong 1v1 and large teamfight potential yet look where we are now.
Give DH traps the thief backstab treatment. They go on a longer than normal cd if you don’t successfully hit someone with them. That way when I’m inevitably forced to sprint away from every other fight on my daredevil, I can at least dodge over the point to get some consolation prize.
Since stealth in gw2 is really the no1 kittened mechanic with neither skill nor any form of awareness involved, Arenanet should simply rework the whole thing.
Several classes have access to reveal and because of the nature of thief, it is usually fairly obvious what they’re about to do if you see them stealth. The problem is that requires intuition and foresight, which doesn’t fit with the whole passive defenses/auto procs that are super popular now.
At this point though, I’d almost rather have them just flat out replace stealth just so that people can stop whining and thief can actually get a defensive class mechanic besides evades that works. So many new players(even some old) fail the skill check against dealing with stealthed enemies so they all come here to rant and rave about “getting 20k backstab instakilled from stealth from across the map”, so stealth in general just keeps dragging the class down further and further, eventually becoming a liability as opposed to a benefit for the class.
Not gonna pretend I know anything about “the best balance” since I just came back from a hiatus, but nothing really changed here it seems. Something is the flavor of the month(when I left it was D/D eles that were unkillable) and for whatever reason played in pretty much every game by 2-5 people. That reason could be they’re actually OP, or it could be that people are overhyping it so everyone looking to get an edge bandwagons, but I digress. Then all the hate comes out on the forums. And in every single thread, no matter what class it’s about, some people agree and some say that literally any nerf would completely destroy the class, ruin all build diversity, and that every issue is a L2P one. Unless of course the class in question is a thief, then it’s just everyone ignoring constant nerfs and asking for more.
Oh well. Guess we can just weather the storm and wait for the next flavor of the month to emerge.
I would remove the ground target from Vault, and make it shadowstep to your target when it reaches its apex, and reduce the damage by like 30-50%. That’s really the only change I would make, it’s dumb that Vault does as much damage as a backstab with an evade built in.
Its probably to make up for the fact that Staff has zero stealth access alone and even if it did, Hook Strike is actually terrible. Takes almost as long as the first two parts of the autoattack chain yet does less than even 1 of them.
From my experience, it is designed for small group play. Zergs can work, but you need to actually coordinate things and not just be a mindless blob autoattacking whatever pops up. I kinda prefer that honestly, I’d rather beat the events because people did something right than beat them just because of the sheer number of people autoattacking a boss.
HoT seemed like it wanted to shift the PvE paradigm a lot. Now zerker isn’t always the best for what you want to do. Now you can’t just treat every enemy the same because they’re dead before they can touch you. Break bar mechanics encourage people to actually pay attention during the fights instead of picking up ranged weapon, turning on autoattack and afking until the boss is dead.
Guess it kinda sucks if you liked the old way of playing and bought the expansion, but they did preface it all by saying they wanted to make harder PvE content that required some more group coordination.
i take it that there are more d/d celele players around so that they dun want to see this sigil become a thing.
Dat necro.
But more like exactly what P Fun said. People don’t want the problems to be fixed. They want revenge and compensation. They don’t want D/D ele to be fixed, they want it to be destroyed or made so easy to hardcounter that it just falls out of existence. The D/D weaponset was designed around might stacking, hence the numerous blast finishers but only fire field. So even if cele got nerfed and D/D’s damage was nerfed, might stacking would still likely be the best strategy for D/D eles.
Why not make a sigil to hardcounter everything then.
Sigil of Breaking:
If one of your attacks would be blocked, it instead removes/interrupts the block and deals 2x damage. 6 sec ICD.
its best rune for every zerker class (unless u run pack huehuehue), MUST BE BALANCED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You realize that if vamp runes did get nerfed, it’d likely just be some other rune set that every marauder/zerker build runs right…? It’ll always be that way for as long as sites like Metabattle exist. People will see pros running a certain spec/runes/sigils and then it’ll get copied, and everyone will play it. There will likely always be one rune set that is just plain better than the other choices in most situations.
But I guess we could just go down the line and nerf whatever people start using more. Lots of people using vamp? Nerf em. Lots of people using pack? Nerf those too. Lots of people using Strength? Nerfity nerf nerf. And so on until every rune choice is equally terrible and they contribute almost nothing to play. But even then, everyone will still just copy whatever gets used in tournaments.
you do realise vampirism is completely broken? unlike other runes…
Not really. Once the ele hp reset thing is fixed, they’ll be perfectly fine. They help reduce the total dominance of power builds. Maybe if they were a little stronger, condi builds would finally take a good hold since against someone good playing a condi build, vamp runes can and will get you killed.
But people will complain about anything that stops them from playing on autopilot I guess.
its best rune for every zerker class (unless u run pack huehuehue), MUST BE BALANCED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You realize that if vamp runes did get nerfed, it’d likely just be some other rune set that every marauder/zerker build runs right…? It’ll always be that way for as long as sites like Metabattle exist. People will see pros running a certain spec/runes/sigils and then it’ll get copied, and everyone will play it. There will likely always be one rune set that is just plain better than the other choices in most situations.
But I guess we could just go down the line and nerf whatever people start using more. Lots of people using vamp? Nerf em. Lots of people using pack? Nerf those too. Lots of people using Strength? Nerfity nerf nerf. And so on until every rune choice is equally terrible and they contribute almost nothing to play. But even then, everyone will still just copy whatever gets used in tournaments.
so how do you kill ele ?
they kill you 1v1
they chase you down and kill you
they survive 2v1at least pre nerfed warriors can still be easily put down.
Those warrior tears.
You can always try the class your precious warrior stomps on with stances, a necro. Necro>ele.
my necro sucks kitten.
cant do kitten against ele.
Then you either would need to change your build or practice more, because celestial signet necro counters D/D eles pretty hard if played right. The second they get any sizable amount of might you just corrupt it, and you can even force burn stacks on yourself by running in and out of RoF intentionally to instantly send them back with Plague Signet. Sometimes if they’re low enough and are using Vamp runes, sending burns back will kill them outright since the mist form will lock them out of their skills while they have all the burns you just sent back.
Page fixing.
/15char
Other game sometimes ban characters, so it really isn’t that big of a deal.
The problem with elementalist is its fundamental nature makes it impossible to balance without crippling the kitten class again. Celestial isn’t the problem with the class.
So they have to do a lot to rework it or risk ruining the class.
Some games take it way too far though. If you’ve ever played a game called Dragon Nest, they have so many community made banned things, they argue for weeks about what should be banned/unbanned. The list became so substantial, they decided to make an “official blacklist” of skills, tactics and such that you can’t/shouldn’t use or even level up. If you become known for not following the blacklist, you’ll pretty much never manage to find a 1v1 match again. So for them, it actually is really common for pretty much anything complained about frequently to end up banned and never usable. And from my personal experience there, once things were put on the blacklist, they very rarely made it off. It got to the point where pretty much every skill above a certain level was banned.
Seeing as you still get rank points from losing, just because someone is rank 20, or 40 or 80 doesn’t mean they’re great. There are gonna be noob players no matter what the rank is set to, and if you make the rank prerequisite high enough, people will just either not bother, or farm their way to it instead, creating either longer queue times or teammates that have even less idea what they should be doing.
Getting to rank 40 requires 328 win in unranked or 983 wins in custom. That seems a little excessive, especially since new players likely won’t be winning games consistently, so you could be looking at almost 700 unranked games, just to play ranked.
Best thing you can do is help teach these people when they show up on your team. Help them understand what they should be doing and help them get better, instead of trying to set up barriers to keep them as far away from you as possible.
ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.
removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.
The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.
devs always choose to gut engineer, can’t see why ele should receive special treatment.
the condis from RoF have never bothered me, but they seem to kill a lot of people on the forum, which was my experience with turret engineers. my issue is that ele can maintain 20+ might. d/d becomes finisher heavy so it’s good at blasting in coordinated teamfights. peopen have to use d/f if they want blasts are the fire field.
As someone who plays both ele and engi(engi more than ele of late) I really would rather classes not be needlessly gutted just to provide a band-aid fix to make whiners happy. Ring of Fire literally will do no damage to someone who knows how to move in and out of it, or even just someone who knows to dodge out of it. Taking it away would make D/D the only ele weaponset without access to any sort of combo field. If that’s fine, why not remove Napalm from Flamethrower Kit because Flame Blast is already a short cd blast finisher(just to be clear, I do not in any way want this, just to make a point).
Fixing a very strong spec is fine. Attempting to gut it into uselessness is not.
ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.
removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.
The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.
Asura male because Asura tier 3 racial heavy armor is probably my favorite armor in the whole game. Plus it’ll look amazing if I ever finish Juggernaut.
Not to mention I can tell you first hand that just because your team has 5 mesmers doesn’t mean you’re gonna win.
Glad some people realize this lol. Seen plenty of pvp teams with 3+ Mesmers lose, it is not an instant win lol.
If only more people thought this way. Guildie had to record another match because the first one, 1 person left instantly at start while and another died once when he tried a 1v2 at mid then left so it was just a massacre. The remaining three were great sports though and still played through.
While I agree with part of what you’re asking here (the number of classes per team 100% agree), try going against 5 mesmers!!!!!!
LOL…. nah, yours was bad, I know, but 5 mesmers was a pure and simple joke. Guild who do this, shame on you.
How come? I was actually part of two of those 5 mesmer parties. Pretty much everyone was running at least a slightly different build, think we had 2 boonsharers(one was me), a PU power build, a condi build that may have been PU(can’t remember), and I wanna say a Interrupt mesmer. So pretty strong build diversity, but even then there were obvious limitations. Wanna know what matches we won easily? The ones filled with people who had no idea how to fight mesmers. Heck, in one match 1 person left before the game even started, and another died once at mid then left. Can’t tell you how many times we’d be fighting people on point who just kept switching targets as soon as one of us got low. Not to mention I can tell you first hand that just because your team has 5 mesmers doesn’t mean you’re gonna win.
(edited by Necrotize.2974)
Long post ahead because I’m currently very bored.
TL;DR- I disagree.
So what should be done? Nerf that signet or nerf lightning whips’ dps or range. There is no way that that signet should be better than the warrior’s even when the warrior has full adrenaline (every 3 seconds it heals btw).
Care to explain why? First, some math because why the hell not.
Healing Signet: Simple enough, 362 hp per second
So, factoring in Adrenal Health:
No adrenaline:362 hp per second
1 Bar of Adrenaline: 362 hp/s+117 hp/3s=401 hp/sec
2 Bars: 362 hp/s+234 hp/3s= 440 hp/sec
3 Bars: 362 hp/s+ 351 hp/3s= 479 hp/sec
Healing Signet active gives identical healing to Signet of Restoration, with the addition of 6 seconds of Resistance, a 5 second shorter cd but a .25 second longer cast time.
Now for Signet of Restoration+Lightning Whip:
202 hp/cast. Triggers on the second hit of lightning whip, which has a .95 second cast time.
So assuming they’re just sitting there spamming lightning whip all day, that’s 202 hp/.95 sec or around 213 hp/sec.
So your base assumption that Healing Signet is worse than Signet of Restoration+Adrenal health just because of how fast Lightning whip comes out is off by 150 hp/sec to 267 hp/sec. Now I know what you’re thinking, " You dumb idiot, eles don’t just autoattack in air all day". Good point! There are bound to be times when the ele is chaining skills much faster than once a second, but there’s also bound to be times when they aren’t. Most notably during the major parts of their rotations such as Fire Grab, Ride the lightning, and Drake’s Breath to name a few. Lightning whip fills gaps in rotations or bides time until Fire is back off cd, but even if they are spamming it more than usual, it’s healing still doesn’t come close to even base Healing Signet.
Additionally, there is almost no reason for an ele to use their active of the signet. Doing so cripples their sustain for 25 seconds. Warriors will at least get some condition mitigation out of it and only need to wait 20 seconds to get it back online. They would also likely have Adrenal Health providing minor backup hp/second. Healing Signet is uninterrupted healing. Nothing but poison will interact with it. Signet of Restoration is not. It relies on constant skill usage, meaning if the ele is stunned, dazes, or out of range of their target, their hp/second will likely be far lower than it would be during their rotations.
I’m not defending eles in their current state and I agree that certain things should be changed for them, and several other classes. But let’s try not to make baseless claims just for the sake of hoping for nerfs. Careless nerfs will not only affect D/D ele, but the class as a whole and make already overshadowed builds downright unusable.
Make ele > Equip two daggers > add any sigils > use any rune > use celestial amulet.
Now, when you get into matches run to mid and just spam all your keys regardless if you are fighting anyone. Make sure to randomly pop your cantrips every few seconds to make it seem like you’re actually doing something.
I’m not defending the current state of ele, but feel free to let me know when sarcasm and acting like a child is probably not the best way to go about getting what you want.
As for OP, knowing what class you play would be a huge help.
I have zero sympathy for people who cry “evade spam”. If a thief is dodging all your key skills and taking minimal damage while still killing you, that isn’t evade spam, you got outplayed hard. Maybe it’ll teach people not to just mindlessly chain skills together and expect it to work. D/D eles, hammer warriors, well necros, rifle engis and pretty much any build that requires CC/immob to reliably land their burst are the biggest offenders.
“Oh you dodged my opener? Guess I better continue with my burst anyway even though you’re now out of range, not stunned or immobilized, and are likely expecting me to do exactly that.” Anyone who has ever actually played S/D “evade spam” thief, knows that just chaining all your evades together is a great way to insure you either do no damage, or run out of initiative and endurance in the middle of a fight and basically disable your damage mitigation for the next 10 seconds.
Thieves had to get more sustain from somewhere so it was either evades or stealth. If they had mesmer-like stealth you’d all whine just as hard. Such babies.
@Lordrosicky evades are a defining trait of gw2, how are they the least fun thing?
Or, they could just give stealth and their “evade” 50% baseline damage reduction instead, instead of complete damage avoidance while being defensive.
There are plenty of ways to buff thief sustain without adding more immunity frames to them. Give them more healing sources.
And you honestly can’t ask for warrior-like sustain without nerfing spike and mobility.
More healing sources means squat when you have a mid tier health pool, no blocks/protection and are designed to quickly move in and out of combat to provide assists. See how well Assassin’s Reward worked out. If you’re gonna nerf thief’s 2 main sources of damage mitigation, might as well change all immunity/invulnerability/blocks/dodges to only have 50% effectiveness. That’s how crazy that suggestions sounds.
Not to mention warriors aren’t exactly lacking in the spike/mobility department either, especially when compared to things like necro/guard. GS brings great mobility while still being a useful damage source, as opposed to thief’s SB which is pretty much only used for mobility and maybe downed cleaving.
(edited by Necrotize.2974)
Hmmm maybe whining and thread spamming isn’t the way to get what you want. Who could’ve guessed?
I just want to remind the people calculating DPS (and DPS uptime) to keep the energy costs in mind. Yes, the AA’s are pretty powerful, but I’d imagine there are a lot of other weapon- and utility skills involved in applying said damage.
This is true, but unless you’re a class like Ele(outside of Staff ele) or Engi, a large amount of your sustained dps is going to come from just maintaining your auto attacks whenever you’re not doing something. Heck, mesmer’s dps is basically all auto attacks after you summon your initial phantasms. Thieves use 1 other skill for a majority of the time, the rest is auto attacks. For other classes a lot of it is auto attacking until key skills are off cd again. Rev should rightly have very high dps with just auto attack because it is the only thing they can consistently do without expending energy. Similar to how thieves get most of their damage from auto attacks due to the resource management, only a little more intensive since utilities use energy as well.
It does seem nice, but that looks like something you’d trait for honestly. Something like that could definitely be a GM trait in Invocation. Sort of like Mesmer’s Master of Fragmentation applying a different benefit to every shatter.
So you want to restrict the way every person playing Revenant is forced to play so that your dungeon runs can go smoother?
As others have already said, veteran players that already know game mechanics will learn almost nothing from leveling because for most classes, the build you use in dungeons and the build you use while leveling are very different. I can definitely say leveling my engineer did not serve as practice for dungeons, especially when I’m using Rocket Boots and only using EGun for movement. If camping flamethrower your entire life was meta in dungeons, I guess it might have prepared me.
You’re essentially asking to disable a feature for people picking up Rev and hinder their progress just to make your life simpler.
The fact that mesmers are still mentioned in your post makes me think you’re just parroting back things you read on the forums. People complained about mesmer having very high burst, but then pretty much every aspect of that burst got nerfed.
People that had trouble killing mesmers before because they didn’t understand how to fight them are still gonna have trouble fighting them.
True that there are way too many intricacies to get a definitive number for pretty much anything but single hit skills, but it does show just how close these bursts should be on average. Obviously player skill and teammate contributions add to it for even more complexity, but the fact that the numbers are fairly close to each other in even simplified scenarios shows can really highlight over-exaggerations. People claiming they got oneshot by mesmers from stealth with one mirror blade burst would have trouble getting that to happen even in full glass.
..another “nerf ele” thread
Unfortunately we still need “nerf ele”-threads. They still haven’t been nerfed, have they?
@ArenaNet NERF ELE PLS! We don’t want to see profession stacking!
Ele has been dominant for month now, feel free to risk to overnerf them. It is better than to let them keep this domination.
There’s that attitude again. Tons of people don’t even really care what happens to ele, they just want it to be nerfed, the more the better. You realize that even if ele gets nerfed into total uselessness, the meta will change, and something else will rise up and fill the hole left. It’d probably be something that was usually not super viable because of how poorly it matched up against Cele ele. My guess would be condi bursters since D/D ele was pretty much expected in organized teams to provide a majority of the cleanses. And judging from how many times I’ve seen those running condi builds called “cancer”, I’d be willing to bet everyone would complain about that too.
So let me get this straight.
Top players are now running 3-4 ele comps.
It takes either a really good cele necro or 2-3 people to kill and ele.
And we still have no nerf to the class…AND
Tempest got buffs.
GG
Forgot the fun little part about Tempest being probably useless for the current D/D spec. Trait line would offer very little because it means either giving up one of your defensive lines(lol, not happening) or replacing fire with it(there go your fast might stacks and blinds as well as CD reduction on your dps). Then you look at overloads. Camping in one attunement is completely counter-intuitive to D/D’s playstyle, and locking yourself out of one attunement for that long afterwards is likely to never be worth it compared to just continuing your rotations as normal.
ANet should really put HoT development on hold and take the time to nerf ele (butcher it, thanks) or, by the time they release HoT, the player base will be so low, they will have a hard time selling enough copies. (Unfortunately, I know I’m wrong, because vast majority of remaining players don’t PvP, it’s so sad…)
Just felt I should point out that SPvP is probably the smallest player base out of the 3 major game modes, so you’re exaggerating a bit there. And judging from how many Rev finishers I see, HoT prepurchases aren’t exactly collecting dust on the shelf.
But attitudes like that(see “butcher it”) are part of the reason balance is so hard to achieve and why so many people can’t accept already balanced things. People let their personal opinions affect what they think is broken and should be nerfed and don’t really care to what extent it is, just so long as they never have to deal with it again. Why? Because they don’t care about the outcome of that class because they don’t play it.
There are lots of things that need to be tweaked, changed, balanced, buffed and yes, nerfed. But the answer for something needing a change shouldn’t be “nerf it into the ground so it isn’t even remotely usable anymore”. Eles(and mesmers too) already endured that once, I’d prefer that it not happen again.
Is Rev’s damage really that high? o.o
I had no idea, but to be fair I didn’t really play much PvE with it. Thanks for the info, makes me feel a little more confident in my decision to gear up a Rev and potentially main it. I always worry I’ll get invested in a class that isn’t too great in a certain gamemode then be stuck feeling like I wasted my time and resources.
Specifically dungeons is what I’m getting at. Revenant looks like a very cool class to me and I hope to play it, but when I pick a class, I like to use it across all gamemodes. So what will Rev’s role in dungeons be? Do you think they have the potential to be “meta tier” for dungeons, or at the very least offer something useful and unique to the party?
Diamond Skin is a terribly designed trait, it is a fine example of the sort of thing a game should not have.
Mind if I ask why? What makes it anymore terrible than blocks, invulnerability, evasion or just general tankiness.
So basically…“How can we turn other classes into clones of each other just with different skins”.
Think it’s fair to note that Stoning isn’t really used that often either. Singe target weakness and a projectile finisher on an attunement with no combo fields is kinda meh. There is almost always something better the ele could be doing than casting Stoning. I’d honestly prefer some unique mechanic for Necro Staff auto. Maybe have it stick to the AoE nature of staff and explode on hit like Lich Claws. Or have it apply a debuff that increases the effectiveness of marks that hit the target within a certain period of time.
I didn’t have a chance yet to try the Chronomancer. But does anyone know what Master of Fragmentation and Bountiful Disillusionment does for F5 on Chronomancer?
I don’t recall what Bountiful Disillusionment did, but I know Master of Fragmentation appled AoE slow for like 2 seconds or something when you returned to your rift.
-snip-
The only thing I gathered from that long winded rant was that you’re feeling offended over something you apparently think is misinformed. Maybe you’re doubtful about the accusation and there’s a part of you that’s agreeing with me. Now you’re just taking your frustrations out on me.
Or maybe you’re just uptight and don’t know when to step away from the computer. Either way, thanks for the info, chief. It was about as informative as a trip to the shoe isle at Wal-Mart.
More like you haven’t really shown signs of taking in opposing arguments and seem to have no interest in entertaining the idea that you may be wrong. Lots of skilled mesmer mains have said pretty much the exact same thing to you, but you keep operating under this flawed premise that somehow, not only is Blurred Inscriptions too strong, but it is also incredibly common in mesmer builds(which it isn’t).
And in Fay’s defense, threads like this one that are predicated on incorrect or exaggerated info are incredibly common. What’s worse is they usually garner a ton of support from non-mesmer players who think it’s true, and then you have a horde of people asking for something to be nerfed when they don’t even really understand what it does.
Honestly I’d say you just made this thread for mindless self validation, hoping to stir up another wave of “MESMER OP!!!!!!1!1!” complaints.
It works when stars aligns once every 32 bilion years.
I’m honestly near 50% drop on place 40%totally broken 10% working. Basically bananas.
And well even when it would work is kitten easy to dodge/stab/invuln.
WTB thief wire :/
Thieves’ scorpion wire does pretty much the exact same thing, except it’s a lot easier to obstruct because it’s an actual projectile whereas magnet just creates a straight line to the target. Both like to randomly not work or just trip the person in place. A few times I’ve had people just fly up into the air when I tried to pull them and they hit a ledge.
Wells also deal damage per tick instantly. 4k damage from burns after 5 seconds would be a whole lot different than 4k damage ticks every second. Blinds aren’t that big of an issue for me honestly. Sure the trait has a 5 second cd, but the only burns ele has will be applied while in fire(aside from Cleansing Fire), so after they leave fire, you’re gonna pretty much be blind free for at least 9 seconds.
Also, if a GS warrior tried using Hundred Blades to defend your ring of fire, he’s playing wrong. Easiest thing? Whirlwind Attack right out of it once you start drakes breath. No burns from crossing, no burns from drakes breath, and he just dealt a good chunk of damage to you while also getting out of range of Fire Grab. Even if they get hit with the first tick of Drake’s Breath and got blinded, Whirlwind attack will instantly remove it and still deal a fair bit of damage. Or they can pop Berserker stance once they see you go into fire, then all they need to dodge is burning speed and they effectively nullified almost all your damage for that rotation.
Not sure if you caught it, but I was being sarcastic about the 40 stacks of burns. It was a joke and no one should be getting anywhere near half that much burn stacks from an ele at any given time unless they’re really bad or doing it on purpose.
Stop walking in and out of ring of fire.
Problem kittening solved.
Instruction unclear, put 40 stacks of burn on myself.
For those who actually think this is evidence of a broken skill…
Why? If you’re getting more than 6 stacks from Ring of Fire, you were playing poorly. Even if the ele kites you through the ring, forcing you to walk completely through it, 6 stacks of burning is all you’re gonna get and it certainly won’t kill you by itself. If you’re getting more than 6 stacks from RoF, it is player error, in the same way standing inside wells does a lot of damage to you or stealthing while you have AoEs out reveals you. It is a textbook “l2p” issue. I don’t really like using that argument, but there honestly isn’t any better way to describe it. To achieve that many burn stacks you literally have to be acting suicidal, or just really really really unaware of your surroundings and be super easy to kite. Even PvE mobs don’t stack that much burning on themselves.
(edited by Necrotize.2974)
Mesmer nerfs came and went but sadly not many people have realized yet that it isn’t the class being too strong that is causing their issues. They just fundamentally don’t know how to fight mesmers aside from facetanking bursts, because that’s what you could get away with before.
I’ve said it before, but I’m fairly certain that people will still complain about mesmer until it is equal to or worse than it was pre-patch, while their class still maintains all the buffs it got of course.
Wait…are people actually using this as evidence for why it should be nerfed?
You know, sometimes I just get the irresistible urge to run in and out of very visible AoEs that do damage when I cross them. Might as well make a video of someone trying to beat Unsteady Ground or Ring of Warding just by taping down the W key.
Honestly if you ever get more than 6 stacks of burning from Ring of Fire, there is literally nothing I can say other than l2p. I guess Wells and Purging Flame are OP too because I can’t just stand there like an idiot and not take damage. It is literally as simple as either stay in the ring, or dodge out of the ring. Heck, 3 stacks of burning won’t kill you so you could even walk out of the ring if you wanted to. Stacking burns on yourself with Ring of Fire is just incredibly poor situational and environmental awareness.