Guild Wars 2

flow.6043:

I laughed during the part about the Flesh Golem, also I cried because it’s true, that lazy bum is collecting unemployent.

As for the rest, nothing of it was news, not to the players and I’m sure by now not even to anet.
Also, there were a lot of false/incomplete facts about the history of buffs and nerfs, Death Shroud and life force regeneration. For example Vital Persistance wasn’t mentioned, Weakening Shroud being nerfed when the removal of the icd was actually a buff overall, and we actually do have lf generators that scale with multiple opponents: Locust Swarm, Well of Corruption and Spectral Wall. For regular healing the freshly buffed but still not viable Signet of the Locust. And of course we have several aoe skills that inflict fear, weakness, chilled or blindness, so to some extent those are too defensive mechanics that scale with multiple opponents.
And DS being weaker now than it was at release is completely wrong. Life force regen was buffed across the board, so were several traits that interact with DS, the UI has seen several very useful improvements over time, almost 2 years ago we got that 50% damage reduction bug so our pool was effectively doubled, we got Tainted Shackles, and we can now rez and stomp in DS. The Shroud back at release was nothing compared to what is is now.

Vital Persistance doesn’t give you much of an edge in PvP, it makes you less panicky with your DS but that is about it… it’s not like you get to hit more with a zerk glass cannon. Who’s honestly going to just sit there and let a glass cannon necro spam life blast ?

Weakening Shroud ICD as far as i remember was 15 sec, and the DS mechanic has 10 sec cd, maybe i remember it wrong… but it was definitely not a buff. Before the NERF every single necro used Weakening Shroud, after… no one uses it… why is that ?

Locust Swarm and Spectral Wall does not compensate for the lack of dissangage and does not make you an attrition class = afflictioner warlock WoW… if they did every single necro would be using them in all builds, you have to be mad not to…

As a defense mechanism, in my opinion DS is weaker, since we use to be able to use it as an Aegis… Enter DS get the aegis effect – lose DS, get a bit of life force – enter DS again. Not only did they remove the DS aegis effect but they also gave it a CD so even if we get life force we can’t get back in DS again…
As for the so called “bug”… it’s a common practice to say “bug” when you want to buff something that inexperienced people may not agree with.

Yeah… life force generation IS stronger… for 1v1s… which again doesn’t really solve the main issue.
I did however forgot to talk about the fact you can now res and stomp in DS, ma bad…

But… i also didn’t talk about how the Dhuumfire “buff” crushed our build variety, because it limits all our damage options into one traitline. Think about how low are damage is now if we don’t go for Dhuumfire, since it’s lower even WITH Dhuumfire.

I agree on the fact that the necromancer should have never been a condition burster, more of an attrition point-pressure… we just lack the attrition part from condition build, it’s actually so bad now that people are going Leroy Jenkings glass cannon…
My question is… why would you play a necromancer glass cannon in PvP, when you can play any other class as a glass cannon and do the same damage if not more but also have… “dissangage” ?

I have seen noobs faceroll 3 buttons and do really well in a team fight… and really experienced necromancers get demolished in the same team fights…
There is a reason why in 900+ players there were only 58 necromancer players… there is a reason necromancer has the least builds voted viable on metabattle…

GW2 PvP system = focus fire burst while target is CCed + spam invulnerability effects
IF target = dead /write noob, EZ
IF target = alive /dissangage

People still don’t get that if you lose to a necromancer in 1v1, with all your evades and blocks and mist forms… doesn’t mean that necromancer fairs the same in a focus fire scenario. Yet all your evades and mist forms and distortion effects still do…
If the Death Shroud which doesn’t scale up or down, was balanced around 5v5s… intended to take the punishment of 4-5 players… NO ONE… WOULD EVER… kill a necromancer in 1v1. #fact

Hello everyone, it’s been quite a while since i last posted or even visited these forums, heh… how’s everyone ?

I recently decided to give this game another try, i returned mostly for the PvP scene since PvE still doesn’t have anything new to offer, but… i see things are still more or less the same as they were when i left.

So i decided to put together a little something, i should have/wanted to make such a video for a very long time now, even before i left…

Nemesis 101 ranked games marathon – Guild Wars 2 PvP balance 17.04.2015 [status: unresolved]

Took quite a bit of time and effort to make this, so I hope this will help the necromancer community at least a little bit… in more ways then one.

Watched it a bit… you could have done a looot better… if you don’t mind me saying. I don’t know if you guys just wanted to have fun, but it kind of puts people off MM. Now that i look at it i think you could have done it in like 7-8 minutes… and since the world record is 5:20 that’s not bad…

You could have provided 25 stacks of vulnerability easy + dagger 1 spam since minions would siphon for you therefor max DPS uptime with the hardest hitting weapon. The vulnerability stacks would increase both your and your minion’s damage.

Dagger focus + minions also might want to add superior sigil of demon summoning, the demon hits as hard as flesh golem.

Once again i don’t mean to be rude or anything, just a small suggestion…

Andele.1306:

If we got by high end skill cap its: PvE>PvP>WvWvW
If its by ok requirements its: PvP>WvWvW>PvE

Im gonna go out on a whim and say balance isnt based on the medicore players, nor should it ever be in a RPG * cough casuals dying to a hoplite in Demon Souls*

When thinking balance you must also consider the skill / reward factor. It’s bad to say that “well you could still kill him if you were more skilled”.

This is like Starcraft II all over again…
For the first year 80% of all tournament winners were terrans with an average of 150 APM, followed “closely” with zerg with 15% for average of 270 APM and protos with 5% for an average of 240 APM…

That… is f…
One could argue that if the zerg and protos players were more skilled they would have taken more games, but that in it’s self is an imbalance…

Balance should be like you said, fixed towards the higher tier of players, but their skill level should be equivalent… if true balance is to ever emerge…

PS: in case i wasn’t clear… using 4 skills, a special gimmicky build, insane map awareness and preparation + perfect timing and execution to counter a ONE PASSIVE SKILL will never be called balance… even if you can do it…

Player.8373:

Hi guys, I play condimancer and roam alot with it. I just can t figure out how to kill a Lemongrass + Melandru warrior. I try putting as much condis on him as possible, but they are gone very quickly. I try to use the Signet of Spite fear combo, he get’s on half his health and uses Endure pain. He keeps stunning me too with hammer. These warriors are always Hammer , GS use lemongrass and melandru.

I hope you guys can give my some tactics for defeating them.

There is no counter for that as a conditionmancer, they are simply made to kill us…

PS: Try to go up against automated response engineer with the same combo… he chased me for 30 minutes (I’m serious !…), and after that he whispered me saying how OP necromancer is and how kitten of a player i am.
I tried to fight him in the beginning but there was simply NOTHING i could do…

Spicyhash.7605:

Dhuumfire is probably the cheesiest thing in this entire game. Even PU isn’t as bad as dhuumfire. It is a random +700 dps for 7(base duration 4 + 30% spite + 40% food) seconds. that’s almost 5k damage (at least) for not doing anything but attacking. no strategy involved. at least PU mesmers have to actually stealth to get those boons. DF should not have been binded to something as trivial and common as critical hits.

How many more times must i post the screenshot with a thief hitting a player 24000 backstab damage in WvW ?

After years of being polite… i will eventually end up just using “l2p” as punctuation, because some people just…

Why am i writing again…

Yeah… you will have access to the weaker version of burning only if you have DS and if you hit with DS 1…
Not only that, they nerfed the bleeding damage on some skills so much, that now we have lower damage then before dhuumfire even WITH dhuumfire…

I did the math and showed the numbers in this video…
I even got sort of punished for what i said here…

So now dhuumfire is the only way to go, and they keep nerfing that as well without adding significant resilience vs focus fire, which is our greatest weakness… which is laughable when you think about it, we are an attrition class that is also the easiest focus fired…

Zzod.5791:

Hey Nemesis,

I was going to PM you this but your inbox is full. Did you ever give me the shout-out in one of your pvp videos for helping you out with signet of spite and some other adjustments for your pvp build? Just wanted to check it out in your video if you did.

Cheers,

Zzodar

Yes i did actually… i remember i did, when i made the PvP guide… when i got to the signet of spite part…
Do you have a youtube channel ? I’ll include that in the description of that guide as well, so people can check you out.

balmung.6217:

I enjoy your vids Nem that said…try a power build…since dhuumfire and then nerfs to everything to go with it then nerfs to dhuum itself i don’t know if you’ll enjoy condition builds much.Since the powers gone to hide behind glaring problems like slow cast animations and meh utilites besides plag sig or spectral armor you might get a bit fustrated.Were still good in team fights because of aoe condition but even then im noticing people are choosing engineer for aoe condition grenades over us….lastly thiefs…i duel a friend alot and we came to realize if you have no LF and one catches you thats it..6-8k backstab into blind and invisi then if you even try to hit heal youll get stunned putting it on cd…eh you’ll see.

Yes man i know… i even said it in the video, when i said thief can chose their fights because of their mobility… It’s upsetting sometimes to see thieves complain so much about necromancer, when they can do what you’ve seen in the video…

balmung.6217:

I enjoy your vids Nem that said…try a power build…since dhuumfire and then nerfs to everything to go with it then nerfs to dhuum itself i don’t know if you’ll enjoy condition builds much.Since the powers gone to hide behind glaring problems like slow cast animations and meh utilites besides plag sig or spectral armor you might get a bit fustrated.Were still good in team fights because of aoe condition but even then im noticing people are choosing engineer for aoe condition grenades over us….lastly thiefs…i duel a friend alot and we came to realize if you have no LF and one catches you thats it..6-8k backstab into blind and invisi then if you even try to hit heal youll get stunned putting it on cd…eh you’ll see.

Maybe i will try power but… i don’t know… you’re talking about the melee build or the range one ? The melee one doesn’t work since the weakness nerf, imo… The range is… very team dependent…

Flumek.9043:

Im glad youve made it back from the lower %. You just had a unlucky start after reset.

Nice highlights.

If you want some good “wtf” moments, try power necro

Oh god… don’t even remind me… i was winning and it said i went UP from like… 90% into 3%… yeah… because after 90 it’s the number 3…
It also said i won 200+ games and lost 100+ IN ONE DAY…

Rennoko.5731:

I’ll be honest, I started watching these expecting some of the more interesting Nem builds…. I suppose those were mostly PVE, but still… and saw the classically overused condition build and the widely accepted and overpowered Lyssa runes.

I don’t blame you for running that setup, but it is the most abused setup that so many others are running, and most forgiving. This seemed more like a video about the most powerful build, with the greatest opportunity to make mistakes and still come out on top.

It is a shame the innovators in this game are reduced to this in PvP, to be successful, because of the imbalance of the other classes specific builds and other rune sets. At least they are looking into one part of that equation soon.

Every single balance change to necros since the burning patch has been around balancing and making THIS build weaker, at the cost of other possible builds. Now, I actually find even with the lyssa runes, this build is reasonably well balanced in PvP, because of the reduced burning time and reduced bleed stacks.

Anyhow not dogging the videos, they are always well done and well explained, just a little put off by the build.

Well… i know what you are saying, i even got into a big argument with a lot of people from the dungeon forums over diversity. I even made videos about it and i definitely accumulated a lot of haters because of it… so… no one can say i am not up for diversity.

But… at the same time i’ve been running this build ever since dhuumfire… other builds got weaker meanwhile, just to nerf this build, so now it’s like the only good thing i could play, imo. So… i get what you are saying, but in PvP, if you are not going to bring your best… you are done for, cause the other players/classes will bring their best…

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

I personally like watching content you put out and would not mind watching more given that you are willing to provide :p

I enjoyed watching the last 2 games the most. can never enjoy slacking on trebs and keeping the hammer in check xD

I just don’t feel like my team’s treb is safe unless i am on it… lol…

Hello everyone,

Even though it’s been a while since i last posted here, i’m still lurking around…
There was this PvP series i wanted to start a while ago, but soon after the pilot episode (episode 0) the necromancer got nerfed really badly, we all remember that right ?…
I even made a video proving this fact, and my guides got removed from the official forums… anyway…

As a sign of protest i stopped playing PvP, as some of you know… The recent updates, however, that have come in Guild Wars 2 got me thinking that maybe ArenaNet is not totally abandoning their game, maybe the game will actually get better in the near future…

With that in mind I decided to continue the series…

Guild Wars 2: The good, the funny and WTF… episode I

So… let me know what you guys think ? I could make more if you guys enjoy them…

Hmm… my team quit the game long time ago, i might be getting back into the PvP scene for a while.

I tried to search for you legnaftw but i didn’t find you anywhere, are you just starting in the PvP scene ?

I will redo the parts in every video that dealt with gear, runes and sigils when the patch hits.

Emanuel.9781:

Nemesis, tell me, is “killing stuff before it can reach you”(which is a blatant lie, just check any kill speedclear video. Mobs obviously reach the group, but they die from burst DPS) better or standing still mashing 1 better without any danger?

Neither… i’ve been saying for months… neither…

No holy trinity = no mandatory tank, DPS, healer… tank taunt, healer spam heal… DPS macro DPS

I thought that would promote a game in which everyone has to react in real time vs a certain situation…
Of course those who like to play a more tanky class will go in front, those who like to see numbers go in the back… and those who like to support support.
But everyone heals themselves and reacts to the environment as a team…
No more… stacking DPSers in one spot, stacking healers in one spot… only pure skillful fights… with tanks going in and out of the action, DPSers running around doing massive AoE and NOT getting 1 shoted if the tank losses agro… no more heal bots, rather support that actively increases the team’s power at the right time… or it’s survivability at the crucial time… everything dinamic and fluent… like a real battle with reactive AI that counters player tactics and forces the players to respond in kind – “adapt and overcome”, the future of MMORPGs…

Boy… was i deluded…

Molch.2078:

Nemesis.8593:

Now try to do this in Dredge Fractal scale 50

Even if it wont work there, it stil does for every dungeon and low lvl fotm aka ~90% of the endgame. I think thats enough to make a point.

Videos like this or the Arah p2 (facetanking lupicus in melee range, really?…) is for people who think berserkergear makes the game to easy. Because if my Zerkwarrior tries to facetank stuff, he dies. Fast.

Thats the whole point of those Videos, at least for me.

So it is justified because it requires “more skill” then just standing still with a macro on ?

Does it require that much “skill” to hit some timings ? I agree… not everyone can do it, until they get use to the timings, but after that it’s like like a jumping puzzle… no skill involved because you’ve done it once but that’s not the point…

Point is PvE is broken… that’s what i keep saying for a few months now… 1 playstyle is far more rewarding then all others, and that playstyle also makes the game look like trash: skip… stack on one pixel around corner and kill mobs before they can even reach us, put boss into the wall burst + reflect his own damage back so hard that he dies from himself.
Any outsider that sees this wouldn’t even think twice about buying this game…

Now try to do this in Dredge Fractal scale 50

Never said you should kill everything, i said you shouldn’t be able to SKIP EVERYTHING.
Why… why do i keep coming back to the conversation.
You guys simply won’t understand…
I am fascinated by this… this is the only game in the world (recently published) where skipping everything to the boss, then killing the boss in 40 seconds is actually possible… more then that, people actually say this is intended and want the entire game to be like this…

It’s beyond ridiculous when people actually believe “monsters are to be skipped”… ahahaha… oh god…

J Eberle.9312:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

J Eberle.9312:

If you have the option to do both but insist on a change that would make everyone do things the way you want, then I still think it is.

It’s not the same.

The problem here is clearly bad dungeon design. It stands to reason that when you design a dungeon, you logically design it so that players can fight some (if not most) of the enemies in it. Avoiding some patrols is an accepted strategy, as it has been since GW1. But skipping everything can’t be, and should not be intended design.

The cry here is for better design that gives meaning to fighting the mobs in the dungeons. Give them better loot (and better drop rates), and players will be encouraged to fight them, but not forced to. Add some gating to parts of the dungeon, so not everything will be trivialized by running past all the mobs.

Perhaps in your eyes it is bad game design, but not to everyone. I honestly think that time gating is bad game design. People already actively avoid time gated paths.

I agree, mobs to need to give the incentive to kill them. But I do not agree that we should force people to kill them.

You still don’t get it… killing monsters “IS” the game… Would you play a game without monsters ? How about without bosses… how about we skip everything and just stand around in shiny armor…

Some of you are really convinced in gaming you should skip as much as possible, basically in an MMORPG which is designed for combat (unlike sims or train simulators) we should combat less…

It’s like… we want to fight without violence… we want to play the game without playing the game…

Creslin.1758:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Creslin.1758:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Nemesis.8593:

The reward is usually as meaningful as the struggle/journey to obtain that reward… Ever heard the saying “the harder the battle, the sweeter the victory” ?

If you put it like that… why would you even want to spend any time in a dungeon, just have a starting vendor with all best gear in the game…

But to swing to the other end of the spectrum as illogically as you’ve swung your way: why not do all dungeons in white gear with 0 traits spent and dodge unbound? Your struggle would be most epic thus, your “victory” would be most sweet.

Hehe funny, but I don’t think you got what we was saying.

The value of anything is partially defined by its cost…in essence, how difficult it is to obtain. For example, truffles are valuable, they are difficult to obtain…corn is not valuable and is easy to obtain.

The same principle applies to GW2. If a dungeon reward is easily obtainable, the value of it will go down. It doesn’t matter if you put yourself personally through hell to get the reward…if everyone else can get it easily, it will still be worth crap.

It’s kind of like, if you won first place in an Olympic event and your prize was a $20 Starbucks gift card. It doesn’t matter that you “won” the gift card by completing an incredibly difficult olympic event, it’s still only worth $20.

My point was that his example (an item dispenser in lieu of a dungeon run) is as illogical as making a task unreasonably difficult on yourself.
———————————
I do find it interesting that you’re a strong proponent of the experience of the dungeon and yet have come with this argument with a monetary/extrinsic basis. If anything, the saying Nemesis used, “the harder the battle, the sweeter the victory,” is entirely intrinsic. It means that I will gain that much more satisfaction even as more obstacles come my way because I will have overcome them.

If you were truly only concerned with the experience of doing a dungeon, the argument of monetary function shouldn’t come into it.

Ah but it makes complete sense. Here is how I see it…

The player community at large will always follow the path of least resistance to their desired reward. If you want proof of this, then just look at any MMORPG ever.

As such, the experience and gameplay of the game is defined by this path of least resistance. If this path is boring as hell, then so is the gameplay. If this path is really fun, then so is the gameplay. And if you do not like the path of least resistance, you are kind of forced into because:

A. Other players will pressure you into it.

B. If you don’t do it, you will be behind other players in progression and feel cheated.

So I think that it’s VERY important for this path of least resistance to actually be a very fun experience. Because it defines how the game is played.

Which is why I don’t like that stacking is the path of least resistance. It’s just not fun and I don’t like the game to be defined by it.

Exactly my point…

Wrath.7801:

I might be seeing things totally wrong here but it seems to me at least you need to spend hours learning what to do in all the dungeons before you go into them or you get abuse thrown at you or you get kicked out

(I haven’t done a dungeon yet due to the fact I really don’t want to spend hours on my time looking at what to do for what boss ect ect)

I have looked at youtube videos of people doing the dungeons and they seem to just rush through them at max speed is this what dungeons in gw2 are? Doesn’t seem a fun way to play the game.

I’m probs totally wrong but from a newbies point of view dungeons seem to be for the elite or the 5 man premade groups only

Don’t worry man, you are not the only one that feels this way… i am in no way a new player. I have actually done everything there is to do in this game long before these kind of people appeared in it, yet i do not support them…

There are hundreds maybe even thousands of them as of late, yet they are still a minority compared to everyone that plays GW2.

Don’t take it personally, they just use every means necessary to get the most profit out of the game, even if that means abusing and exploiting. Think of it as… if stealing would be legal… how much time before would pass before everyone does it. It’s not entirely their fault, they even said it… “what do you want us to do, play the game in a less effective just because it’s morally wrong to play it our way ?”… and that’s kind of true…

The game will change in time for the better, or it will die out… you just have to hang in there.

TurtleDragon.3108:

Nemesis.8593:

Mirsa.1628:

I never understood why people want to spend more time in a dungeon for the same reward.

The reward is usually as meaningful as the struggle/journey to obtain that reward… Ever heard the saying “the harder the battle, the sweeter the victory” ?

If you put it like that… why would you even want to spend any time in a dungeon, just have a starting vendor with all best gear in the game…

Well… GW1 was like that. Everyone was equal stat-wise and only grinded for cooler looking gear.

Also, no one really cares about the struggle/journey after the first few times you do it. It then just becomes farm to grind for the next legendary, cash shop item or piece of ascended gear.

Well of course… after you have “consumed” that content, the experience becomes less attractive and you want “the next challenge”. Usually new content is pushed out in the form of an expansion to satisfy people’s thirst for a challenge…

Mirsa.1628:

I never understood why people want to spend more time in a dungeon for the same reward.

The reward is usually as meaningful as the struggle/journey to obtain that reward… Ever heard the saying “the harder the battle, the sweeter the victory” ?

If you put it like that… why would you even want to spend any time in a dungeon, just have a starting vendor with all best gear in the game…

On another note… there are friendly people here that have an honest opinion and want to contribute… so to them i say…
I hope the zerker meta doesn’t get nerfed into, i’ve spoken to people… i got some ideas… will post them soon. If the zerker meta gets crushed… there will be the condition meta, or the healing meta or the tank meta or what ever, and we would have the same problem.

The solution has to bring stability and equilibrium to the PvE, like… zerker only vs 2 zerkers 1 condi 1 healer should finish a certain dungeon relatively at the same speed (relative to skill and other factors of course).
Each one of these playstyles should face hardship but from different aspects… so it’s not “one meta > all others” but more of a “i am more comfortable playing as X… and having to deal with Y instead of something else”. “We enjoy playing as… and having to defend vs…”.

I think the solution may rely with the implementation of a few other mobs in each dungeons with counter-meta AI… kind of like dinamic events with mobs that are meant to counter a certain group composition… and i think i may have come up with some categories…

“:D”
(this is for the people i recently spoke with on this subforum…)

No no no… of course it is playing as intended from the Devs…

Let me see if i “too” can read the devs minds…
Attempting to read devs minds, please stand by:

“When we said play the way you want… we actually meant that you could do it, but you shouldn’t… because we have actually created only one viable way of playing.”

“We have created the most complex build system of any MMORPG, but that is just for show… you only ever need to use 20% of it…”

“No more holy trinity ! That is our moto… no longer will the players have to suffer the burden of choice… no longer will our players have to suffer diversity and decision making… all you need is one build to rule them all”

“We have also created long dungeons and filled them with monsters because we want players to skip them, jump with weird angles on weird pieces of left over terrains… go over the map, under the map… do what ever it takes to get to the final boss without fighting where you can…”

“… no longer will our players have to suffer through 30 minutes or longer of meaningful harsh PvE experience, for the first time ever… in any MMO… in our game all dungeons can be completed in under 4 minutes…”

“Buy Guild Wars 2 now and see what has never been seen before: One Build, Speed Runs, No complexity, No choice, No problems !… But wait… just when you thought we were done, we have a special offer for you… Buy Guild Wars 2 now and get free VIP status (some of you will know soon enough what i mean by that)”

For those of you who are confused right now… fear not, i have not given up… in fact i have given in… It’s obvious that this is how the devs intended their game to be, and how the “majority” of the community wants it.
So… this is just a few small ideas for my next video, going to use it to advertise the game on a lot of MMORPG websites… it’s going to bring in a lot of new players. What do you guys think ?

/peace my brothers, Nemesis has come to join you… let’s make this game what it can truly be…

PS: If it were up to some of you, the game would go into the ground in less then 1 month.

Uberkafros.5431:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Uberkafros.5431:

The stupidity in this thread is epic.
If people believe that speed running times is what makes the Elite in pve for gw2 people are more deluted than i ever believed.

Even the way we kill the 3 acolyte waves on the lamest of pugs on cof1 is an exploit and not they way it was meant by the devs.And people still defend skiping 90% of a dungeon with legit ways.

Since I’ve been “deluted” maybe you can tell me what makes the elite in pve for gw2?

Oh and while you’re answering for me, when you were at the design meeting where the Acolyte event was created, can you please explain what, specifically, the devs intended? I mean, since you know their intentions you were obviously there, right?

Lastly, you seem to think skipping trash mobs is skipping the challenge. What if, and this is a crazy thought, skipping some mobs is actually more challenging than fighting them, and thus a greater demonstration of skill?

I’m speechless…
Are we doing a low % metroid speedrun here? Or are we playing an mmo?
And if you are happy that your Elite content in gw2 is to speed run with 4wars and a mez be my guest. It sure aint mine though.

And yes im 100% positive that the devs didn’t intend for us to just make mobs evade on the acolyte event of cof1 until the rest acolyte wave spawns.
Neither did they say “kitten yeah!!!Our awsome gamers found an inovative way to do this event.GG team”

I am a bit concerned that if action is not taken soon to prevent this kind of gameplay, more and more people will be converted into this…
Since… no new dungeons, same old same old… why would i even bother doing it right, when so many are doing the “fast way”, if you can’t beat them join them…

This will eventually create an elitists community that is far worse then if we had a damage meter. When damage meter is present people strive to be top 5, with the lack of one… or the ability to raid in 40 man group… people go for the next best thing which is “How fast ?…”

“How fast ?…” means that it doesn’t matter the means… only the result, exploits don’t show on the damage meter…

It’s going to create a very toxic community filled with people that don’t really play an MMO for the MMO’s sake… and every day there’s fewer of us then it is of them…

PS: it shouldn’t matter what i do in my free time, or post on the free internet… the reason i am getting hate is because as they have said “they can’t get this kind of exposure”… they don’t even realize that if they had gotten this kind of exposure, and advertise the thing they are doing, that would have crippled guild wars 2’s stream of new players really really severely.

Think about it… you are a new player, wanting to get into an MMO… you see GW2, and you search for some footage… and you see fight after fight of big bosses being killed in under 10 seconds, first thought… is this a private server ? Are they hacking ?… Are they fighting lower level mobs then them… but why ?… What’s with this game ?
This is the actual game ?… seriously ??

If i were to do a compilation of boss speed kills, and at the end say “Guild Wars 2 best MMO of all times” and post that online i would get banned from the game

Of course… internet rule nr 1. Never get involved aka don’t feed the trolls.
Trolling rule nr 1. always put words in people’s mouths, usually exactly the opposite of what they say.

I hope you all have a lovely gaming experience, best of luck to you.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Nemesis.8593:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Nemesis.8593:

So… condition, tank and support builds are PvP/WvW only ?… If you are trying to do advertising for this game you’re not doing it right… know what i mean ?

And open world pve, yes. I’m not trying. To advertise the game. I’m talking about dungeons. There’s more to the game than dungeons.

Nemesis.8593:

Devs haven’t stopped people because back then they were isolated cases, and people weren’t selling the information on how to exploit on LFG. I feel that it has gone to far, if the devs don’t step in now…

Back when? And people have been talking about how to exploit parts of the game since the beginning. Should they stop chat capabilities too?

Nemesis.8593:

Besides… it’s not like the devs are perfect, look at the current state of SPvP, EVERYONE is complaining… that should tell you something about the state of the game.

It’s actually impossible for everyone to be unhappy. If everyone was unhappy, the game would have to be completely balanced. Someone has to be happy, else the devs have done their job.

We are talking about high end pve here. Dungeons. A miniscule part of the game. People here are amazing players. What you call an exploit, is actually skill. Please, understand that.

Hahaha… corner stacking is skill ? Jumping on edge of the walls and on threes in fractals is skill ?… Luring the bosses into the water so they don’t attack is skill ? Whaaaaattt ?

Let me see now… jumping on the edge in SE, going through the stairs in Arah, going through under the map in CM… disabling “melee assistant” to do double damage with bugged skills then posting it on forums to trick players into thinking they are awesome, then coming on MY youtube channel calling my builds crap because i refuse to do the same…

You people really think i don’t see through all this bullkitten ?
I probably don’t even know all the exploits, but i know enough… and i’ve been in places in this game most of you have never even heard of. I just chose not to advertise and use them…

But you people trash talk me and call it skill ? Ahahahahaha…

I never trash talked you. Please calm yourself. Frankly, I haven’t even heard of those interesting tactics you’re using. Stacking on a boss and killing him can’t be an exploit. If it is, then hurting a boss is an exploit. So don’t even touch him.

Yes, you didn’t… i said “you people” instead of creating a few more replies. I am not using those tactics, that’s why i get kicked sometimes… i learned that people don’t appreciate when someone says “it would go a lot faster if you guys would just stop exploiting”.

Stacking on a boss is not an exploit, the fact that you can do that… is bad gameplay design, which you… indirectly admitted to.

You said in PvE condition, tank and support builds have no room… that means bad PvE. They advertised the game “play the way you want” and also “you don’t have to wait for a tank or a healer”… it was never “you don’t need a tank or a healer, you should only be DPS” they never said that… the fact that now you sort of have to or be kicked is BAD GAMEPLAY.
The fact that you personally like it like this doesn’t make it any less true… and bad gameplay will eventually kill this game.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devs haven’t stopped people from speed running throughout the entirety of the game. A year and a half. What makes you think they’re not okay with it?
Also, I’m a believer that build diversity is for wvw and pvp. It is irrelevant in dungeons, which is supposed to be the high end pve where good players go to challenge themselves. Of course noobs will faceplant. Of course bads can’t wear ideal gears. It’s high end pve. There will always be a best build in this situation, and the best players will use it and succeed.

All gears were not created equal for every play style. That’s impossible to do without classes being the exact same.

So… condition, tank and support builds are PvP/WvW only ?… If you are trying to do advertising for this game you’re not doing it right… know what i mean ?

Devs haven’t stopped people because back then they were isolated cases, and people weren’t selling the information on how to exploit on LFG. I feel that it has gone to far, if the devs don’t step in now…

Besides… it’s not like the devs are perfect, look at the current state of SPvP, EVERYONE is complaining… that should tell you something about the state of the game.

Fror.2163:

If they could simply take phases and randomize them. See Lupicus, it has 3 phases and slight variations in phase 2. Make bosses with a dozen possible phases and select a few randomly that occur in sequence. Those should be designed to be best efficient against a type of play. The boss could even “decide” “hey, they’re going melee? Let’s give the phases against melee more weight in the random phase selection.” “Oh, they melee again? More weight to those anti-melee weight”.

In short, make the boss analyze the type of play and give him tools to play against it.

All they have to do is punish stacking enough so that the PvE is played as intended.
Why do you think melee has more damage then range ?
Is it because they wanted everyone to play only melee ?… why even have range option then ?
No… it is because melee has higher risk = lower DPS uptime = balance.
In this game higher risk = no = max DPS uptime = imbalance… which automatically destroys most of the other builds, such as tank, support, condition and so on…

kyubi.3620:

Lets see it from the dev point of view…. if we keep speed running everything the dev will just nerf down ALL dps spec damage by half and then well be forced to do the game the right way again? I can understand the players will to do everything the easy way but that doesnt actualy mean its right. Nemesis here support the community by offering build that are easy to play works in prety much all situation (no need for a super group to actualy use it right) and actualy dont get new players downed in less then 5 second, its not actualy behing misleading at all, hes even helping the newer player find a balanced yet usefull build to play,

Meta build are in no way balanced punish player with beginner skill for using them and are by far only good when you have a fully specialised party with specific composition because they generaly lack a field of effect they neglected because another class will suposedly provide it. If everyone started using meta wed quickly run in a dead game with no newcommers and only leavers. Even us the actual player who speed run stuff would eventualy get bored and leave one after another from playing in an empty world.

Exactly my point… people quit because no expansion… allow/facilitate the death of the little diversity that is left in the game, people will quit even faster.

Except for those who like to speed kill things for the rest of their lives for no reason other then to measure best time vs other people’s best time, in this… casual game…

How weird is that ?

mahariel.4981:

So let’s get this straight, we’re in the wrong for wanting to efficiently kill bosses, but you deceiving tens of thousands of viewers in to thinking your trash builds are fine is perfectly ok?

Do you understand why I hate almost the entire game community?

Deceiving tens of thousands ?… I must be a really good deceiver then, thank you.

My builds are not trash, they do not perform as well as those designed for coordinated speed kill… only because speed kills are allowed. But then again… no condition build is viable, no support build is viable… no tank build is viable if you put it like that…

I don’t care how much or who you hate, the fact you found a loop hole that i saw, and preached against even before you were in this game, doesn’t give you the right to talk to me like that…

You think you are so good because you guys brainstormed together a way to abuse bad gameplay design into speed killing, and then you decide to talk trash about anyone who doesn’t do that ?…

Really ?… Well then… make a youtube channel, start preaching your ways… you are free to do so, learn from me to be a deceiver, or better yet… you don’t have to, because you are the actual pro, not me.

You’re funny man…

PS: At this rate i’ll get flamed by botters saying how crap i am cause i can’t bot 10 characters at the same time… is this what this game has come to ?

First and only time i will answer you, you are seriously not worth my time not because i am so great and you are so bad… but because you are arguing with one of the few people that actually wants to make the game better… if you’d have it your way, the game wouldn’t even be playable.

Exploit to win FTW.

spoj.9672:

Ok so the vid i watched was actually part 1 of 2. So it was actually 20 minutes. How is that any better? Thats just even more dull. I played some wow a few years back and quit because all it was a geargrind so you could do enough dps to kill raid bosses before the enrage. How is that good design?

It wasn’t good design… that’s why i came here, looking for something better, not something worse…
The fights there were harder for the wrong reasons, here the fights are only hard for stupid reasons or are not hard at all…

There’s no further reason to discuss this, it’s my opinion after all and it is subjective…
I always found, and always will find games in which you can kill bosses in under 40 seconds… and it takes longer to get there, even by skipping… which btw wtf is that… let’s skip the entire dungeon, reach a boss… kill it in 40 seconds, then do the same thing again… today or tomorrow… same dungeons btw…
I will always find these type of games broken, unrewarding and unchallanging… to me it’s something companies use as an excuse when they can’t make something worth playing.

Lich King… vs Lupicus…

What do you think the 13 mil players of WoW back then would say if people found out they could speed kill the Lich King ?

I think all servers would have been downed immediately for “emergency maintenance”.

In Guild Wars 2… just another day at the office…
It’s so ridiculous it’s not even funny, and some people even defend it…

spoj.9672:

Thats not really the case. Yes there are issues with pve which hinder build diversity such as condi specs. But when going for record times builds are often tweaked to suit the path. Warrior build is stable. But there are many variations of the eles build and mesmers use different setups for different dungeons. Same can be said about guardians and maybe thieves?

The game wont be done for. The speedclearers are the more loyal and longterm playerbase. And many casual players eventually join the speedclear community because it adds a new level of challenge to a rather dull pve experience.

I want a more complex game aswell. So does everyone else. But when they said no holy trinity you must of known there was going to be a meta which involved mostly dps. Its just logical. Even games with a holy trinity have a meta where only very few builds are regarded as good. Just because the meta is pure dps doesnt mean the game is bad. Because the reality is that the defense and support side comes in the form of damage mitigation so we can run full dps and still survive. I think thats a really good and interesting concept.

You actually enjoy running from corner to corner, stacking DPSing mindless mobs… then speed kill a boss before he has a chance to hit twice ?
Or the fact that the new trend is to weapon switch – buff before the speed killing commence… they are making the inventory into a small slot to weapon switch fast…

You think this is “working as intended” gameplay ?

Yes… i am afraid in time more and more people will join the speed kill community, in this otherwise “rather dull experience”.
Like i said… when ever one particular playstyle is so much more effective then all the other combined, there is an imbalance there… it’s scary to see that a lot of people don’t find that problematic.
For example killing Lupicus the old fashion way, vs killing it via melee bursting + reflect… can you tell me that a boss in an “end game dungeon”, once viewed as the hardest boss in the game, should be killed in under 30 seconds ?…
It is should that should happen ?… In any game… their hardest boss… 30 seconds…

spoj.9672:

Its a bit more than 5% but ok. Im not saying advertise it as a build people should use. Im saying advertise it as something people should consider using if they want to speedrun. I dont understand this hate for efficiency and meta builds. Its completely unwarranted.

You’re not a bad player, or a stupid person… you must realize if this goes on the game is done for…
If they don’t fix all these speed runs… condition builds will be out of PvE for ever alongside any and all form of tank or support builds.

Mix that with the lack of expansion / new dungeons… the game will soon turn into a 1 build only, 3 “viable” classes only… speed kill only… grind fest.

People are already too use to doing speed runs… it’s killing the game, you have to see that…

edit: i am not the only one fighting for a complex game filled with diversity, just that too many people had enough and left… i am not going to be the last one…

When they said they went “away from the holy trinity” i don’t think any of us thought… ohhh… well then, we’ll have only ONE BUILD TO SPEED KILL. If we knew that back then… not even half of us would have bought the game…

spoj.9672:

With the amount of viewers you have Id like you to showcase the meta build aswell. Just so it gets exposure. Even though we know the meta builds for each class we cant compete with people like you for spreading builds. And that causes some people who really should be using a meta build to wrongfully take something subpar because they cant find anything else.

Casual theory crafters get so much exposure they should use it to the benefit of the entire community. Which means advertising top tier builds aswell as their own. Unfortunately noone does that.

So advertise builds that rely on exploits, broken mechanics and team coordination ?…
I should advise the casual players to take your melee glass cannon necro and go in fractals ? They’ll go splat in under 3 seconds…

I could do that, but i know full well not even half of them would make it… we established once that in the perfect circumstances your melee build does 5% more damage then my range one…

Now think about how many of them would survive in fractals with yours ?…
Yesterday someone called me to help them in AC p1, they were new commers… they were dying every 10 seconds at trash mobs…

Would you send people like that melee in fractals ? If i would have done it since the beginning, no one would have taken me seriously… they would all say that my builds work only on paper… even so i have people saying that the “conditionmancer” is too squishy… imagine that…

edit: My safe playstyle that is for everyone doesn’t hurt you guys… maybe makes a dungeon take 5 minutes more to complete. But on the flipside… what you guys are promoting is hurting everyone…

The entire game is filled with speed killing elite wannabe’s that die every 10 seconds, and flame and blame it on everyone else. They do that because they copy what they saw someone else do… they saw big numbers not understanding why or how… they drolled, they copied and they use it wrongly with the wrong people which is bad for everyone.

And of course they are never to blame even though they are more downed then alive… how could they, after all they copied the guy that did 54000 whirling wrath by exploiting the bug, with a perfect party composition…

My videos are made for casual players that pug/solo most of the time. That information is obviously not nonsence for them, not everyone was born a gamer.

The builds i’ve made also help them play better and enjoy the game more while puging…

I know you great players don’t need advice or to be thought how to play, why are you even watching guides ?
Why does it bother you that i help new commers ?

If there are at least 100 people that benefit from what i have to say then i am happy with that. Shouldn’t bother you regardless… what i do in my free time is my business.

Umut.5471:

Yet they still cry about only "2"sec dhuumfire being op.
Condi necro isn’t viable anymore, yet anet still nerf bleed stacks, condi durations, weakness icds… Give necros new power weapons and build options then. Currently, the only “kinda” viable build is MM. Ele, mesmer, warrior(hammer spammer), thief(perma evade) all of these classes can easily faceroll a necro if you assume both of players use their characters at the same skill level. Stop nerfing necro and start nerfing hammer spam warriors, perma evade spam thieves, undying eles and zerker tank guards. All of these class builds are superior op against any necro/ranger/engi build plus these builds are a lot easier to play. I can’t understand why they nerf necros while there’s this kind of ultra op builds. They can’t even give an explanation, there’s no dev messages in necro forums since 1 month. Because there’s no logical explanation to necro nerfs.

Such a true story… we have LOWER damage then before Dhuumfire and people still say necromancer is OP.

Druss.6917:

Luciferhawke.2015:

The Game Slayer.7632:

lol no one is complaining about it now. It’s been over 3 weeks, like I said. People found counters, and no one uses the trait because of how weak it is. Its almost too easy to counter.

You guys made such a big deal about this weeks ago. And I love getting to say ‘i told you so.’

You cant be serious. All i’m running into in wvw is diamondskin. People stopped complaining in this thread, or went mm/power.

Same here. I’d say 8/10 eles I run across will have diamond skin in wvw. While in zergblobs that’s not a huge issue, for roaming it is a major issue. Even running MM sometimes isn’t enough because they can go from half hp to full in a split second, and back comes the immunity. No CC, no condis to whittle them down, slow them, put them way down here on our playing field….they just continue to happily faceroll that keyboard with zero skill required.

True story…

While it is true that the average 25 bleeding stacks solo is not really realistic, it’s more of an “up to…”, one thing to mention is that condition duration > condition damage in PvE.

Even if you could have 5000 condition damage… if you can’t get over 5 stacks of bleeding, someone with 25 stacks and 1500 condition damage will overtake you by a mile…

So max out condition duration then worry about the damage. Or if you have a group and like to play “of the pro” set your condition duration to an interval that sinergizez perfectly with the other usual bleeders in your team… so that not a single drop of DPS is wasted…

OR…

Use my conditionmancer that focuses on support + AoE in such a way that your single target DPS is negligible… while your AoE sustain DPS is the highest possible in the game, so even if you overstack with another bleeder… you’r there for the AoE and support…

jalmari.3906:

because how dumb AI is -> warrior dps > all

This… < and another few characters >.

There use to be a thread pinned on top of this forum, which would have not only answered but also explain an justify every build so you as a player can get a baseline from where to start.
Oh well…

The fact that you can complete 80% (100% according to some) of the content in this game without the need of build diversity aka full berserker… is not broken ?

The fact that because of the above reason, in the current PvE diversity is not embraced but criticized… is not broken ?

The fact that 1 year into the game you can still do corner stacking (exploit ??) to favor the above two statements… is not broken ?

The fact that all of the above statements lead to people mindlessly doing only part of the overall content… over and over again… is not broken ?

The fact that in the current PvE being at range most of the time offers no benefit vs being in melee (that’s why they can go full berserker everywhere… ask spoj how he does fractals berserker melee necro… that’s what he said, so… if someone can do it, everyone can do it)… is not broken ?

The fact that in the current PvE system… tanking is not requied, neither is debuffing… or healing… which puts some classes that act as a debuffer at a heavy disadvantage (as in who would want a necromancer for chill, blind and weakness – those aren’t even considered group support, because they are not needed or equivalent to the warrior group support, which favors corner stacking full berserker steam roll)… this is not broken ?

Are we not playing the same game ? Or am i the only one that wants diversity… and content that demands diversity ?

Kahrgan.7401:

Nemesis.8593:

Necromancer isn’t bad in PvE at all… it is the PvE that is bad…

Let me explain…
For example… warriors do more damage in melee range then necromancers do at range, because no one would ever play a warrior in melee, if there was another class that could do the same damage or more at range… especially since melee range doesn’t have the same DPS uptime as range does. Not having the same DPS uptime as range makes the meleers overall effectiveness as high as the range… as in they do more damage less often vs less damage more often.

Now… in this current “we do only CoF p1 fast run just warriors 10k achievement points or kick” stupid PvE system… melee classes are not punished enough for staying melee, so you can actually have 100% DPS uptime even in melee… and therefor warrior > necromancer.

They can’t increase necromancer damage to match warrior damage, because then no one would play warrior. They would do that if there were more necromancers then warriors, from a marketing point of view, but they aren’t…

So… now you have it. The only thing they can do is fix PvE, not chance the necromancer or any other sub par class, cause that would just place us further away from a good game.

In conclusion: Necromancers are fine… it’s the PvE that is broken.

I usually agree with you, but for this, I do not.

It’s not the PVE mechanics that are bad, it’s the imbalance of warriors and guardians innate defense vs other classes.

They wear heavy armor, and they have some of the best group support. Guardians have the BEST group support, and can be very defensive without sacraficing a ton of damage. Warriors on the other hand, add alot of group support, shouts, banners etc; while wearing heavy armor getting that innate defense AND their damage scales off the charts compared to other classes.

Currently, there is no middle ground for plate wearers. No risk vs reward. If you want to do dmg, you should be squishy. If you want to be survivable you should do low dmg. That was their intended goal, but they don’t seem to have the right balance with warrior or guardian.

Here is how it should break down as far as damage goes

High dmg <————————————>Low dmg
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
High risk(squishy) <———————————-> Low risk(tanky)

The more squishy you become the more dmg you deal. Currently warriors don’t make a big enough sacrafice for the damage they do. Mostly because hundred blades and Axe auto attack scales too well with their traits and attack power.

Mobs move too fast, and deal too little damage… therefor in most cases there is absolutely no advantage for doing ranged damage. Warriors current state of “squishyness” would be just right if mobs would punish meleers more then they punish ranged classes. Therefor they won’t be able to land every 100B on CD… and ranged classes that do less damage would have a chance to catch up in DPS.

I either misunderstood what you just wrote, but it seems to me that you are agreeing with me, but from a different angle. I am not sure you got what i was saying…

The main idea is that… if necromancer at range would do as much damage as berserker warrior melee… no one would play warrior, not to mention what that would do to PvP.
They don’t do that much… because a warrior hits really hard, and is suppose to not land every 100B on CD, but they do…

Necromancer isn’t bad in PvE at all… it is the PvE that is bad…

Let me explain…
For example… warriors do more damage in melee range then necromancers do at range, because no one would ever play a warrior in melee, if there was another class that could do the same damage or more at range… especially since melee range doesn’t have the same DPS uptime as range does. Not having the same DPS uptime as range makes the meleers overall effectiveness as high as the range… as in they do more damage less often vs less damage more often.

Now… in this current “we do only CoF p1 fast run just warriors 10k achievement points or kick” stupid PvE system… melee classes are not punished enough for staying melee, so you can actually have 100% DPS uptime even in melee… and therefor warrior > necromancer.

They can’t increase necromancer damage to match warrior damage, because then no one would play warrior. They would do that if there were more necromancers then warriors, from a marketing point of view, but they aren’t…

So… now you have it. The only thing they can do is fix PvE, not chance the necromancer or any other sub par class, cause that would just place us further away from a good game.

In conclusion: Necromancers are fine… it’s the PvE that is broken.

It brings me great joy every time i read a form of appreciation or positive feedback on this thread, i don’t answer most of the time because i didn’t want this thread to have 100 pages, since people sometimes ask questions here… and i tend to answer…

I want to thank all of you for what you have done… especially lately
I admit that with the lack of something to do PvE wise, i tried my best to aim for PvP… and with the recent developments i was unable to find enjoyment there either… That combined with real life problems have made me lose contact with the game, and those who have followed me.

The fact that my thread has been unpinned can be a result of the video posted above, where i criticize what ArenaNet has done to the necromancer class PvP wise. I understand that i might have went overboard… some would say not overboard enough, yet i understand that they can not have the person with pinned 100.000+ views guides on top of the forum talking bad about their decisions… even if they would agree with me.
I like to think the fact that they unpinned me is because of a marketing decision and not as a “come back”.

As Oslaf said… i have redone the videos for the glass cannon berserker, the hybrid, the conditionmancer, the WvW conditionmancer for roaming, the WvW class cannon for zerging… so they are up to date…

I didn’t redo the bunker and minionmaster builds because they haven’t changed… they got buffed but not altered…
The one thing that needs to be… not redone… but there is a better alternative since the weakness patch, is the support-healing build… you can make one better now.

In closing… what i actually wanted to say is that… i came back to these forums only to see that people keep bumping my thread.
I may have fallen out with the game, or not find anything else to contribute extra to the necromancer class (since the lack of a new level cap that would come with an expansion… except for a new command build, maybe the new support build if people would be interested in playing support)… but people haven’t forgotten me and my hard work.

Thank you, really…