Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone,

Some of you may remember i did a 4 necromancers + 1 mesmer Citadel of Flame path 1 fast run. We did it in 6 minutes 30 seconds back then…
Since then the game has changed, i have released a new version of the glass cannon… and of course the fast run had to be redone.

Guild Wars 2 – CoF p1 fast run v2.0 [analysis, comparison, conclusions and suggestions]

In this video besides the actual run… which is quite faster then the last time (since the running speed is the same, yet we managed to get 40 seconds off the clock) you will also find a small analysis from my POV on the whole concept of speed kills / power type damage… and where the necromancer stands in this.

I also included a few conclusions and a really nice suggestion.

Feel free to leave some feedback here, or on the section on youtube.
Hope you enjoy

Yeah… you can check my channel for some math calculations in different builds…
But if you notice, i always use “~” or the word “average” because it is never exactly “that”.
The combat system in this game is dynamic, therefor you have to move… break combat which decreases your DPS.

There is also no tanking / agro system… sometimes a boss chases only you therefor your DPS is almost nothing.
It’s about overall effectiveness… how to increase your absolute most maximum, so you have from what to lose from when you break combat.
It’s also about a bit of survivability… so your minimum DPS is never 0.

Once you understand these, once you know “What is the right question”, you may find the right answer… which is always “I do between X and Y DPS… i do X single target Y AoE – burst / sustained”.

edit: It’s also about single target DPS and AoE, it’s about burst and sustain…

For example…
What good is that you can AoE burst 150.000 damage once every 40 seconds, if the mobs you are fighting have 200.000 health, you are pretty much screwed… you need sustain damage there…

What good is that you can sustain AoE damage 350.000 every epidemic cycle aka every 12 seconds, if you single target DPS is capped at 3750 and you’re mostly fighting few mobs… aka speed runs.

While i do not like rap music i have to say that each person has it’s own personal preference and can use what ever they want in their videos.

I personally would so want to use music from the “epic” genre in my videos, but i am legally not allowed to do so, if i try… they will take my youtube away…

I have dozens of songs that would make the blood rush to your head…

A lot has been happening in the last few days, a lot of balancing has been done to the necromancer…

“Dhuumfire: In competitive PvP only, burning duration caused by this trait has been reduced from 4 seconds to 2 seconds. Burning duration is still 4 seconds in other areas of the game.”

While i may understand this change from a PvP perspective, i fear that once you start making skills that act differently for PvP and PvE it will break the game and take away one of the most beautiful things it had.
I also know that ArenaNet claimed this is a temporary solution.
Well i’ve done some math calculations and i have a solution of my own…

So… the new burning ticks 3-4 times in PvP, fear traited ticks 3 times…

I know people were upset about the terror nerf, but think about how much we have gained in recent times… we had fear damage x3 times, now we have burning damage x3 times and torment, and improved survivability from death shroud.

If you change it to 2 seconds in PvE as well then it will not be enough… unless…
Lingering Curse: Conditions inflicted by scepter skills last 33% longer so far…

What if ?
Lingering Curse: Increase condition duration by 30% and breaks the 100% condition duration cap.

So what this will do:

1. PvE hybrid builds will have their burning reduced from 6-7 to 5-6, which is still good considering PvE wise burning on single target is nothing, only on 6 targets is it worth anything DPS wise from a hybrid/conditionmancer POV.

2. Improves PvE pure conditionmancers, and that’s a fact… you know, those who don’t go for burning because epidemic and… emmm anyway… the experienced players know why and ArenaNet knows why also.

3. PvE hybrid builds contribution to the party – by acting as a debuffer aka vulnerability is increased because of duration, also because epidemic/

4. PvE condition & support builds effectiveness is increased because their debuffer mechanics are now upgraded.

5. Necromancers finally became truly “special” when it comes to conditions, since they alone can break the 100% condition duration cap – because foods, which synergises so kitten well with epidemic, in condition builds in support builds (debuffer).

6. Does not break any of the existing PvE builds at all… on the contrary it makes them more defined by adjusting some values… it will be more clear then ever.

7. There is no danger of people reverting into 30 – 30 – ? – ? – ? builds to increase their burning, since 1 extra tick of burning is not worth sacrificing so much survivability (again, experienced players will understand understand).

8. Also by doing this… you can leave burning in Spite, i know why you won’t move it to Curses after i’ve done some math calculations.
You can more or less leave these trait paths alone for a while and open up new builds by teaming up Death Magic / Blood magic traits with interesting PvP related abilities…

~ for example one may consider Close to Death a PvE trait, so 30 in Spite may not need to be taken, if Blood Magic 20 would have… stability on Death Shroud entrance, that does not stack with stability on DS entrance from SR 30, which will allow you to unregretably take 50% more crit chance in DS… which will open up power builds for competitive PvP (this is just tip of the iceberg… there’s so much that can be done).

There’s so much math to be explained here… but i believe the admins got it if they read this.

So… what say you ?

“Dhuumfire: 100% change to inflict burning for 2-3 seconds on critical hit, 10 second CD.”
“Lingering Curse: Increase condition duration by 30% and breaks the 100% condition duration cap.”

Could this be a permanent solution for PvP all possible builds, PvE all possible builds ?

edit: sorry i don’t explain step by step like some of you are use to, i am trying to send a message not write a novel :P

Sepreh.5924:

Nemesis.8593:

Sepreh.5924:

I know I am beating a dead horse on this one but Nemesis, what about the idea of changing dhuumfire’s burning to chilled?

It would help lock people down in pvp and wvw. It would also serve as defense due to increased skill cooldown. In pve, it would be underpowered with just chilled so maybe something like “100% chance to cause chilled for 4 seconds on critical hit and remove 3 stacks of defiant. 10 second cooldown”

I already said it should be moved into Curses grandmaster, and whitering precision should be moved to Spite grandmaster and mixed with chilling.
Also terror should be moved into Curses grandmaster as well so you can’t have terror + burning, lingering curse should be moved in adept and hemofilia and master of corruption should be made into one.

You have room for 1 more trait… power builds become viable, condition builds become less damage dealing and more survivable since you don’t have to waste traits in power anymore… win win.

No one listens to me

Haha why don’t we listen to you? Amazing idea and seems to take care of both necros and non necros in pve and pvp

I KNOW !… so… OBEY ME !

… and of course since you won’t be able to get terror and burning at the same time, burning duration has to be increase, and terror damage has to be either reversed to original state or increased even more… so now you have the option of playing… bleeds + burning which is constant high pressure OR bleeds + terror which is smaller pressure + burst. But terror damage needs to be increased, since it won’t stack with burning…

Sepreh.5924:

I know I am beating a dead horse on this one but Nemesis, what about the idea of changing dhuumfire’s burning to chilled?

It would help lock people down in pvp and wvw. It would also serve as defense due to increased skill cooldown. In pve, it would be underpowered with just chilled so maybe something like “100% chance to cause chilled for 4 seconds on critical hit and remove 3 stacks of defiant. 10 second cooldown”

I already said it should be moved into Curses grandmaster, and whitering precision should be moved to Spite grandmaster and mixed with chilling.
Also terror should be moved into Curses grandmaster as well so you can’t have terror + burning, lingering curse should be moved in adept and hemofilia and master of corruption should be made into one.

You have room for 1 more trait… power builds become viable, condition builds become less damage dealing and more survivable since you don’t have to waste traits in power anymore… win win.

No one listens to me

Atherakhia.4086:

Zikory.6871:

But with torment do you think it would be worthy of being a Grandmaster trait?

I question its worth with burn to be honest. It’s a grandmaster talent in a power line afterall. Depending on the number of stacks, it could be of value as a replacement. If it has 3 stacks of torment for example it does nearly the same damage as burn if the target is moving.

I’m more concerned with what ANet decides is the problem. It would appear they have problem with terror builds. I could see them nerfing dhuumfire AND changing master of tower to a grandmaster trait.

Sure… then we can all play elementalist
No fear and no burning, we would be so much worse then before… and before we were bad. If they do that you could literally not kill anyone…

Linguistically Inept.6583:

sylvari can get pretty necro~ish
the first one is my current necro
i started a second one just for the second look (although with different dyes); norn also has some pretty nice cultural t1 is pretty nice

I like the green one… looks very very good

I know how… after the recent patch i made a build that i always always wanted to make but was never possible, and it can counter stun locking warriors as well.

It is by far my most favorite PvP build thus far… i will make a video about it next week.

War Mourner.5168:

Nemesis.8593:

The patch is not what you think… they were either sneaky on purpose with it, or someone really knows how to “write” these patch notes.

Remember i was upset as well ?… well… i played it, i adapted new builds, i played those, realized there was far more to this patch then meets the eye.

The fix/change to LF amount/damage taken (what ever the hell actually happened) was a very big buff across the board, I don’t understand how Anet fail to properly list the changes they make, what is the point in patch notes if they don’t make note of the changes!

If you ever work in advertising or marketing you’ll know that half the things you hear/read are said in a “special way” for a reason.

The patch is not what you think… they were either sneaky on purpose with it, or someone really knows how to “write” these patch notes.

Remember i was upset as well ?… well… i played it, i adapted new builds, i played those, realized there was far more to this patch then meets the eye.

leman.7682:

Do you realise how much utility wells can help in high level fractals?
Do you realise how grosely powerful an optimised hybrid-condi comp with epidemic necro is?

Trust me, I’m not tossing those things out of my hat.

Sometimes I wish a dev came with a spreadsheet showing possible DPS. Maybe then people would believe.

To close any argument before it may rise – IMPORTANT, please READ
A necro is a profession that is designed with numerous drawbacks. It is a profession with the least diversity when it comes to combat/skill systems (from blocks, mobility, etc. to combo capabilities). It is so BY DESIGN. It isn’t going to change.

What is the outcome of this situation? A necromancer needs a team that is well composed around him. It’s also is relatively inefficient to stack necromancers because they don’t have the mentioned utility variation that would allow them to create viable comps of stacked necros.

It is probably going to stay, so don’t expect to be ever able to play 4 necros as 4 warriors, that’s not the point.

What may happen, though, ArenaNet gives us real dungeons (not zerker-hp-sponge dungeon-set aka all original explorable dungeons) where you CANNOT just tear through the trash and melee boss without moving. Where things like conditions, epidemic, condition management and transfers, blinds, boonhate are not only viable, but necessary.

This is what necros need. Not cleave, no mobility, etc (although I would welcome them with true love). I just realised these things are not happening but better dungeons are.

spoj.9672:

Im curious. What build do you run on your necro when doing fractals. Also was the necro a choice you guys made or you just werent fussed. If you guys did choose to take a necro, why? For blind and weakness?

Naah, I’m just sick with my exclusively-since-beta necro. /joke

1. They told me, that it goes easier with me than with a guardian. Joke or not, I don’t care.
2. We tested Underground Fractal with a HGH engie and a hybrid necro with Epidemic once. The effect was tremendous, things melt. Well/Axe#3 boonhate is also useful I guess.
3. My necro rotation of S/D bleed, weapon switch, BiP, Reaper’s Touch, DSin, DSout Axe#2 with a well or two has decent DPS that never stops… all from 500+ range. 500 is so safe that you will always DPS, you are invincible. Warrior’s may have higher DPS, but they die more often, there is no discussion, they just do die more often if they want to maintain the damage output.
4. Well of Power and Well of Darkness are amazing in Cliffside Fractal.
5. I use Spectral Walk to eliminate one orb from the equation in Swamp Fractal and to smash last set of seals in Cliffside.
6. Spectral Grasp lets us pull Chanters on the second seal in Cliffside one by one, without anyone dying (lvl 70+) as well as pull Kittens-Mittens in Uncategorized Fractal so that they don’t aggro the kiting guy.
7. Lich Form the Dredge boss <trololo>
8. Epidemic on the Legendary Grawl Shaman with 15 stacks of bleeding and some other conditions just after the shield phase kicks in.

The utility is there. At least it is for me. I could go on and on, but I don’t feel there’s a point.

What I want you to understand, that things like a well used Spectral Grasp will save you a lot of time (less killing at once, no wipes, no additional spawns). I didn’t play all professions, but I know that in high level fractals where utility actually means something – a necro is really really good.

How come when i showcase all of what you said in a video Spoj doesn’t believe me, but when you say it he sort of… pauses ?

Everything you said i’ve been saying for months now… guess people got tired of hearing me yap all day.

PS: Hybrid is amazing isn’t it… never gets old to melt packs of mobs, and see more numbers on screen then you can count. Ahhh… necromancers

Afya.5842:

Nemesis, I respect your contribution to the necro community. But you really should try a few more classes if you haven’t.

Necro axe 1 DS1 maybe seem good for vuln but warrior axe/mace is just faster doing so, only two buttons and it’s 8 stacks there. Some of it is aoe vuln. If vuln is not enough, you press a skill called on my mark and it puts 10 stack 10s vuln on target.

Warrior can do that without sacrificing dps because unlike necro’s axe, warrior one has cleave, and the auto attack damage is not kitten. Imagine necro dagger/focus with cleave.

Necro dagger’s dps really isn’t half bad. The problem is without cleave, we’re doing 1/3 of what others can do.

To fight lupi,
after two dodges, necro can use wurm to port.
DS2 port
DS to absorb hit pre-nerf
trait 30 to get DS stability for bubble

Same after two dodges, guardian:
focus 5 block
shield 5 projectile block
heal block
virtue aegis
vigor from trait
retreat aegis
elite invul
sword 2 teleport
Stand your ground stability

So judge yourself.

Going into guardian as soon as i finish remaking some of my old videos.

Already made a very nice guardian tank build, well i think it’s nice… haven’t seen anyone use it… and i would know, because it has one key feature.
Either i’m really wrong… or… people don’t care about party tank-support, all they see is DPS DPS DPS.

Oh man i can’t wait to get some dungeons in which you absolutely can’t go without bunker or/and support…

You’re right… i haven’t played other classes much, i judge based on what i see… and what i see is in fractals mostly. I see useless mesmers… useless warriors… guardians with staff and shield that don’t put up a single wall, it’s a nightmare.
Not having anything against other classes… the necromancers i meat are horrible as well, every time i see a necromancer auto-attacking with staff in fractals i face palm.

It’s hard to get a field of things… i think i driven my guild insane with questions like “so how much DPS does your warrior do, what CD does your guardian have… how much does your elementalist heal ?”

All i see that 90% of the time i have a higher effectiveness then the people i am with…
This is not me bragging, just trying to make a point… if i am dead wrong about where the necromancer max potential is at compared to the other classes, it’s because of what i have observed.

Would be sad to find out other classes have more AoE sustained DPS then what i call a “forced conditionmancer”. Would be weird too… cause i never seen anyone ever doing more AoE damage then me when i play that spec. How i know ?… a few hundred fractals… maybe over thousand and a half.
Countless times i soloed a large group of mobs somewhere… and the rest of my team didn’t finish theirs by the time i finished mine.

I don’t know what to say more… really… in time i will play all classes, and i will try to contribute with feedback – negative/positive as i see fit.
Trying to keep it real.

Few people keep saying some amazing things about other classes, can it all be true ? I checked many times for proof… i can never find any.
I’m not saying it’s not like they claim, i’m not saying it is… all i am saying is that 70% of the people online… hell 70% of the people in general exaggerate.

You saw that sometimes i defend the necromancer, sometimes i make suggestions to fix the necromancer… it’s not like i want to play a lie.
So… can anyone show me these amazing things ? I want to see them for myself, so i can have a comparison… have a starting point, an upper limit… you know…

Afya.5842:

I stopped reading when you mention support in pve. Why would you need to support if mobs are dead before they can damage you? Why would you bring support if the boss is gonna one shot you if you miss dodge?

I speculate you are the kind of person that would take 4 berserker warriors and 1 berserker mesmer in dredge fractal 49…
Not me, no thank you… i chose life.

spoj.9672:

I told you when we did the first attempt at cof p1 before the patch that you dont start the time when the gate opens you start when everyone enters the dungeon. The record is 5mins and 27 seconds from the start of the dungeon and that was with 1war/2thief/1mes/1ranger. Its under 5minutes from the gate opening if you are adamant on counting from that point.

You wont come close because necro’s cant stack 25 stacks of might instantly on their own and the unique damage buffs from banners and frost spirit have a huge impact on dps. Theres a reason necro’s arent used in speedruns, they dont provide anything that improves time. Infact they slow the run down if you replace a class which does provide a speed increase. If you want to go for a record time with a necro you shouldnt have anymore than 1 necro in the team.

I actually searched on youtube for the current fastest run… i can’t find anywhere anything 5:27 that starts from the entrance. 90% of the recordings out there start from the second gate, from where i started last time.

I also want to see the new fastest time… since warrior DPS got nerfed, and when you have 4 of them, it matters…

Can you link me the 5:27 second run ? Searching for it does me no good.
Also if anyone knows what the time to beat is now after the warrior nerf…

PS: Not trying to beat warrior time… want to be within a 10-20 second distance interval +-, which i would then claim it is more or less irrelevant… let’s hope i will succeed.
If i won’t i’ll ask for buffs, if i do i’ve proven necromancers are not to be kicked… win win.

edit: right… seen it, so it’s like 4:30. Only 1 warrior though… but very impressive, very very impressive.
I’ll do my best…

spoj.9672:

Nemesis.8593:

PvE necromancer is fine… it was always fine, after the recent buffs i would say it’s very good… even using power build.

Hybrid was always strong, now it’s stronger… conditionmancer was always strong… now it might be even stronger.

Its not fine. Necromancer is the only class which is a complete leech in dungeons. We also have very limited surivability. Its even worse now that DS cant be used to absorb insta kill hits when we run out of dodges.

Every other class can provide something unique or do something which helps the team and they dont need to be babysat to survive. Warriors have high dps and boons and banner buffs for team. Guardians have decent dps and plenty of group boons, defense and reflect. Mesmers have bad dps but loads of utility and boon sharing. Rangers have boons, frost spirit and spotter. Thief has very high single target dps and stealth. Engineer has decent dps and ability to stack might and vuln incredibly fast. Eles have huge amounts of support and boon sharing, they also have a lot of debuffs and can do huge dps with LH. Necro has sub par dps and debuffs which can be done better by other classes with less selfish builds. Not to mention debuffs like weakness and chill are pretty much pointless in pve. Also necro’s lack of blast finishers makes it a bit difficult to stack might in fire fields.

I’ve done about 20 CoF p1 fast runs the past week. Tried a very great number of variation of 3 necromancers + 1 mesmer + something… 3 necromancers + 1 mesmer + 1 berserker guardian buffer actually performed really bad, followed closely by warrior with banners…

Having a buffer in your team in speed runs is overrated… about 10-15 test runs… facts… do not lie.
As soon as i get a proper 4th necromancer, and a true berserker mesmer i will do the CoF p1 fast run the proper way.
If i manage to match the warrior time (after nerf) will you believe me then ?…

Hint: we’re already under 6 minutes even as we are…

Weakness and chill is far from pointless in PvE if you play support, going to roll out my new support build in the coming weeks…

Weakness + chill is actually amazing, arguably as good as elementalist’s heal… there’s more then one way to support in this game, you can heal half HP of the group, or you can cut the damage the group takes in half. That is all i will say for now.

I’m surprised you dislike the necromancer so much…

PvE necromancer is fine… it was always fine, after the recent buffs i would say it’s very good… even using power build.

Hybrid was always strong, now it’s stronger… conditionmancer was always strong… now it might be even stronger.

Bull Zooker.1672:

my favourite thing about patch day is reading peoples reactions to it on the forums. honestly its hilarious.

though I do think they nerfed spectral skills with the 1 sec cool down.

I think the important thing to remember here is this game, is a game…

the only other complaint I have is how after each patch I feel like I need to re-learn building my necro.

The patch notes are ambiguous…
After playing the game i wouldn’t call this patch a nerf, but there was no way of seeing that before.

Some of us read fast, some of us had a bad day… and you know people read and see what they fear/are interested in. So…
It’s only natural…

Maybe i should have had more faith in the company and test before speaking, but i don’t like faith, i like facts.

Rennoko.5731:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Yeah, Nay of the Ether is absolutely right. This has pretty much decimated our defensive abilities against insane burst damage, both in WvW and in PVE. And we got nothing in return for it.

Seriously you need to go try it. For the purposes of damage soaking, my DS now has the potential to absorb 24,704 damage points. Yes it degenerates, but before it was only soaking 14,000 – 15,000 damage in the same gear in the same build.

I like it…. and since I don’t have to put 10 points in death magic ( I can live with blocked marks), I get spectral armor now too, at 50%.

Hmm… i too have noticed some stuff, maybe i we got it wrong…
More tests needed…

Tenderly.7019:

Nemesis.8593:

284 Tenderly.7019

Yeah… a bit bellow 50, and you… you say necromancers are good as they are now ?
You are at that position and you don’t see that everyone else does everything a bit better then us with half the effort ?

Are you doing this to attract attention or why ?… i don’t get it…

You can’t possibly claim that the following situation is fine…

2 players attack thief – thief instantly escapes 5 seconds later appears in another fight, at another point full HP
2 players attack elementalist – elementalists instantly escapes 5 seconds later appears in another fight at another point full HP
2 players attack guardian – guardian blocks twice, invulnerable for a few seconds, another invulnerable, 1 full heal… a few knockdowns… then you may kill him… 20 seconds on average
2 players attack mesmer – mesmer clone stealth blink portal escapes 5 seconds later appears in another fight at another point full HP

2 players attack necromancer – necromancer can not escape / necromancer escapes takes 20 seconds to reach another position

Need i go on ?… you know this, you have to know this, why do you claim it to be otherwise ?

any non necromancer class dies – necromancer takes AT LEAST 5 seconds on average to stomp except if using 180 CD plague form or forced 30 SR build for stability
necromancer dies – any non necromancer class stomps instantly

Are you doing this for the publicity or why ?

Yea, been below 50, solo queue doesn’t exactly help rating as stated previously.

The amount of pure emotion in this post far outweighs any significant objective reasoning or logic that you might have been attempting to convey. For instance, these examples were all gross exaggerations. It’s ok to be upset, but it ruins discussions.

What publicity? From what? This was the most curious part.

Emm… that is your answer ?
Why do i even bother… i’ll be going now, i always say there’s never any point to getting involved, why can’t i listen to my own advice.

Bas.7406:

Oblivion.8307:

don’t worry guys, necro still broken op.

I agree with one caveat. Condi Necros are still broken op because nerfing terror doesnt’ fix our incredible amount of damage and we can still chain 3 straight fears on one person.

Power Dagger Necros who had it rough before are now completely done with the ds change. Your only hope is to blow someone up before you die. Previously you could use ds to kill and get out if it failed. Now it’s just die even if you outplay the ds nerf means you will still take damage even if you used it defensively to eat the damage.

@Nemesis – necros are still very viable in pvp. They are just bad in solo queueing, and they are even worse now thanks to the ds nerf. The necro should never be stomping anyways. Leave it to your team and rely on positioning and use the downed body as your epidemic train.

If i make a montage of the last 30 games ranks 55+ i’ve played in TPvP, everyone will call me a noob for not killing people.

I can hear them now…
“omfg you so noob… you got stunned 6 times in a row hahaha noob l2p”
“omfg you so noob… it took you 30 seconds to kill that enginner who is COMPLETELY IMMUNE to conditions for a while, and then you couldn’t even stomp since he got stealth revived”
“omfg you so noob… those 2 warriors 1 thief killed you from stealth in 1 shot ahahaha… got you suck”
“omfg you so noob… moa + ranger roots and you just die ?… man you should quit GW2”

and…

“look at you noob… you can’t even kill that warrior that ran away from you so fast he’s outside of LOS in under 2 seconds”
“look at you noob… you can’t even kill that thief who stealth runs every time he feels like it and there’s literally nothing you can do about it”
“look at you noob… you keep applying 7 stacks of conditions every 2 seconds, only to have them removed… why do you suck so badly”
“look at you noob… that elementalist is gone… now he’s back… he’s gone again… he’s back again, he’s just toying with you, he just full HP healed right in front of you and he is gone again… man you are a joke…”

No offence Bas, but i’ve been hitting TPvP lately and i’ve seen some stuff.

Casual PvP is ok since it lasts 20-40 seconds on average, but when you go high end and every fight ends in about 10 seconds, out of which 5 the target is invulnerable to damage… pfff… let’s get real.

Tenderly.7019:

Nemesis.8593:

Really ?… what rank are you if i may ask, or… what pro team are you part of ?

Did i see you in the last official tournament ? I couldn’t have… since there were NO NECROMANCERS in it, why do you think that is ?…

Been below top 50, I solo queue all the time though, but how are leaderboards any indication? They mean nothing

I play on NA btw, and haven’t had a team for a bit, doesn’t mean there aren’t super-pugs running around tournie queueing and scrimming against high-end teams and/or other super-pugs.

Teams not playing with Necros doesn’t mean Necros aren’t good at high end. I certainly saw tournaments with teams running necros, on NA anyway

This is the most powerful a Condi Necro has been since the launch of the game in PvP.

284 Tenderly.7019

Yeah… a bit bellow 50, and you… you say necromancers are good as they are now ?
You are at that position and you don’t see that everyone else does everything a bit better then us with half the effort ?

Are you doing this to attract attention or why ?… i don’t get it…

You can’t possibly claim that the following situation is fine…

2 players attack thief – thief instantly escapes 5 seconds later appears in another fight, at another point full HP
2 players attack elementalist – elementalists instantly escapes 5 seconds later appears in another fight at another point full HP
2 players attack guardian – guardian blocks twice, invulnerable for a few seconds, another invulnerable, 1 full heal… a few knockdowns… then you may kill him… 20 seconds on average
2 players attack mesmer – mesmer clone stealth blink portal escapes 5 seconds later appears in another fight at another point full HP

2 players attack necromancer – necromancer can not escape / necromancer escapes takes 20 seconds to reach another position

Need i go on ?… you know this, you have to know this, why do you claim it to be otherwise ?

any non necromancer class dies – necromancer takes AT LEAST 5 seconds on average to stomp except if using 180 CD plague form or forced 30 SR build for stability
necromancer dies – any non necromancer class stomps instantly

Are you doing this for the publicity or why ?

I am absolutely sure that 95% of the people that dare claim necromancers deserved these nerfs have never been in a tournament game vs ranks 55+, not once.

The combat is a lot different… basically it’s a few moves all rounded in 5-6 seconds. They dodge block evade immune invulnerable block stealth then… stun daze moa ranger root stun stun knockdown daze KILL YOU then… they stealth charge / leap / teleport / blabla… then they run away.

Necromancer can’t run away, can’t escape… can’t chase… can’t survive guaranteed for the next 10 seconds until someone else shows up, unlike any other class in the game.

Basically it’s like this… you fight someone for about 20 seconds and using superior skill you go through 2 full on cleanses 2 evades 2 stealths / 2 blocks / 2 dodges / a few CCs and or some invulnerable / immune effects… THEN and ONLY THEN do you have a chance to actually start making progress. If your skill is high enough you can THEN proceed to kill your target, if you are still alive then…

You finally get him down… you are about to stomp, he teleports stealths knockdowns a few times and a few more fun stuff… which puts you at ~ 25/30 seconds about now.
Just as you are about to finally win because you deserve it… 2 players show up, knockdown you a few times if need be… you watch helplessly as they stealth/mist form + stability revive the person you just killed…

You proceed to run away only to have them on you in half a second… stun daze stun stun dead… by the time you can press FEAR you are already quickness stomped, or… and this is more likely, they will have stability…

Not only do we not have stability stomp, we also can’t delay stomps to prolong combat so that someone else shows up.

If you focus any class in this game, if they are smart they can escape, focus the necromancer it’s a free kill…
Now… it’s even worse…

Everyone !… Don’t panic !… the upcoming tournaments will come, and when skilled necromancers will either refuse to participate, or will get crushed, we will finally get our well deserved survivability.

Learn to play a new class in PvP until then, will be a fun experience… problem with this patch is that it ruins the proper conditionmancer build in PvE as well, which as it was it was a bit… meh…

We have precision/ toughness / condition damage gear yet in the toughness trait line there wasn’t a lot for us… now it may not be worth it to go tanky AoEers but full on weird (power invested) spite + curses conditionamcers, even though burning gets redundant really easy… and we don’t need it really in PvE.

PvP is a mess for the necromancer at the moment, and PvE conditionmancer just got weird.

Why… why did they did this.
Everyone knows the support and faith i have in this company, and how often i used the word “perfect build system at it’s core”.

Tenderly.7019:

From a high-tier tPvP standpoint, none of these changes really do anything to affect how powerful a condition Necromancer still is.

Terror nerf was needed and it’s was very minor.

30/30/10 Wells
Took a hit as unblockable marks in PvP are extremely good and now these players will have to choose between Ground-targetable Wells or Unblockable Marks.

I personally welcome every single change, they’re great. Base mark range increase is what Necro’s have been asking for since ever.

Fixing the bug where we take more damage in deathshroud is amazing, I always had suspicion that I was taking more damage from certain attacks randomly but could never re-create it.

Any nerf this patch was is so ridiculously minor IMO

Really ?… what rank are you if i may ask, or… what pro team are you part of ?

Did i see you in the last official tournament ? I couldn’t have… since there were NO NECROMANCERS in it, why do you think that is ?…

Bhawb.7408:

Terror was nerfed because Dhuumfire+terror was too strong. Except now you need Dhuumfire to be a condi necro.

Yeah… 1 build to rule them all, but wait you drop like a fly in it…
Take anything else you drop like 3 flies but you can’t even sting… How lovely.

StugLyfe.2134:

Just like any OP class … the ones playing it think they are just "great " at pvp and the rest of us stink …. lol get a grip necros they over buffed you and now all these fine tunes were needed.

I would take the time to explain high end PvP to you, but i don’t think it is worth it… you would not understand it.

Since life force gain now has a 1s CD, they actually reduced our survivability vs multiple… instead of increasing it. Necromancer is the best class to be focus fired… not it’s beyond the best class to be focus fired…

I officially quit necromancer PvP, it’s just not worth it… i’ve done high end PvP the past few days, and i’ve seen my fair share of unfairness…

Stun stun stun stun cleans cleans cleans and even so he couldn’t kill me… MY TURN !… oh wait… charge leap rush byebye…

Easiest class to stomp, easiest class to focus fire… any other class in the game has the ability to resist focus fire + break combat except for us.

PvP necromancer is dead to me.

The did WHAT ????…

Today i wanted to release a video expressing my faith in this company, with the recent changes to the game (not balance wise), faith for the future…

That’s gone…

Actually they could make it bigger and more shiny, but the hit box remains the same size…. so sometimes they may think they hit you, but they actually don’t.

Also “HIT ME” can be used to your advantage, lure people into an ambush, backpedal spit on them with ice and of course auto-attack…

I also believe the minions could be replaced with an large AoE cleave attack + some effects (of course using a big shiny scytte – darksiders style) , so you can go in and be a god among mere mortals for a few seconds until someone corrupt boons you and they focus fire you down in 2 seconds.

Looks like you guys beat me to it… wanted to showcase multiple scenarios from different normal builds and modified builds (modified for this event only).

I’ve also seen a warrior do it in 6 seconds… heh… quickness, not fair.

Andele.1306:

Nemesis.8593:

As i have achieved more a state of PvE excellence.

norn intro song in background There will be songs of my leginnd, notu letze goa kill a bear, but not just annu bear, A ARMOIRE badum tshhh BEAR!!!

On a serious note dont declare such things, you cannot be perfect in fighting AI because only a good written ai can be that, not to mention some stuff about your mesmer “tutorial” that is pretty much trying to bend that side of the light armor caster coin into the necro…
So please Nemesis do use forum time for productive or funny/troll posts, not norn/asura boasting.

If i wanted to brag i would fill the forums with screenshots of how many people thank me on a daily basis. People that know me know i don’t do that, the only reason i said that is because i felt that it was necessary.
I’m not just “a random necromancer” inviting people to do high end PvP before saying we are OP… that was the message i wanted to send.

Besides… after all the tests i’ve done, and all the things i know… i’m quite happy with how much i know about PvE necromancer.

ps: quick to jump me eh Andele ?
Also… my mesmer is doing fine, i use it… i enjoy it, i do great damage with him… as advertised. I don’t know what is wrong ? Except shatter mesmers in fractals that still do no damage and die in 1 shot… Oh well…

I recorded a few variations… i already knew which one would be highest, and i was right…
Tried a few variations of the power build, but i want to test out a “forced” conditionmancer modified with minions so i can make a few points.

Will make a video about it, and will post it soon

As i have achieved more a state of PvE excellence, ankitten ow moving towards high end PvP… i have something to say to any and all that will ever try to nerf/tone down any necromancer skill.

Play high end PvP rank 50+, preferably towards 60 for one day… then you will see what it is all about.
High end PvP is so much more different, and necromancer doesn’t have a lot of room in it.

Mobility and stability in high end allows strategies that are insane… run as a unit, bunker up before engagement… CC focus fire, then run as a unit.
Basically before you focus fire 1 person, by bunkering up i mean… you will hit and all you will see is immune, dodge, evade, immune, invulnerable, block block stealth dodge immune, and then you see you can’t move at all for the 5 seconds until you die… don’t blink now or you’ll not see the direction they all ran as a unit.

Necromancer can only focus fire, they can’t bunker up as other classes can even while having high damage or follow the unit… or escape the unit…

If you think fear – terror + burning + bleeding is OP, hahaha my friends… hahaha… you have seen nothing yet.

One moment they are one location point 10 seconds later they charge OUT OF STEALTH + ranger trap + moa + warrior stun into 100B + mesmer shatter and thief cleans out the rest, 10 seconds whiped team… and they stealth charge again so you can’t see which way they went.

Stun locking warriors are a thing in high end PvP, i have seen it… they have really high mobility and a lot of stuns which is key in focus firing someone.
One of the worst things to be focused fired by is mesmer + ranger + warrior… if that happens you mind just lift your hands, put them in behind you head and laugh as you wait for the revive option…

They are not a problem 1v1… problem is we can’t stop them from running away, that’s the only problem, but in team fights… again… necromancer is still the worse class to be.
You simply can’t do what the others can… any other class can survive focus firing at least 60% more times then a necromancer. That’s just how it is…

If a necromancer + something focus fires a guardian he will live another 25 seconds no matter what you do, between 3 knockdowns 2 invulnerables and 2 dodges… at least 25-30 seconds…
If a necromancer + something focus fires an elementalists, he just goes away… same as thief.

If 2 somethings focus fire a necromancer, there are times when you die instantly, you can’t hide… you can’t run… you can’t stand your ground…

Kratos.6293:

Can you please link it ?
Btw which build can do it the fastest? Hybrid,Condition or Power?

Condition DPS is capped at 3500, hybrid is a bit faster then condition… i believe power, but a modified version…

I’ll do a test kill, won’t prove much though, fractals/dungeons are not the same as a giant kill.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Nemesis.8593:

I’ve been recently doing high end TPvP with rank 50s… trust me, we are far from OP. I would go so far as to say we still don’t have a place in TPvP…

Here is where i’ll get the L2P shenanigans…

Let me break it down for you, evade block evade block stealth block block block evade evade 6 second CC focus fire 1 shot + evade block evade block block evade evade… wait… wait… there’s engineer condition immune immune immune immune.

Teams that went pro managed to form team composition and prepare a sequence of attacks in which they are close to invulnerable for 5-10 second interval until they CC lock 1 individual down for 5-10 seconds while bursting him… then they break combat running away with no chance of following…

Then they repeat sequence…
Of course they mesmer portal on top of you, must never forget that.

edit: fast moving combat pew pew with max CC and max stability is what wins at the moment. Necromancer is not fast moving, doesn’t have max stability… and pew pew is laughable.

This is the risk with a profession that’s OP in one specific build but still has its fundamental problems: the meta warps to compensate for that one OP build and then the profession is left without room to maneuver. If the Necro is the “carry” but still doesn’t have sufficient sustain mechanics, people will just build Necro-killer strats and blow through Necro-centric teams.

Necromancer doesn’t carry anything at high level of play… conditions disappear faster then you can add them because of party coordination, they have almost perma stability… because of perma coordination… and like i said, they strike only focus fire max CC then they turtle while speed jumping across the map…

So it’s either block block block invulnerable blink invulnerable portal… or it’s charge charge leap blink and other crap, until they turn around and max CC focus fire you.
All of this while removing all conditions on average every 5 seconds.
It is a nightmare…

If one were to stand somewhere and auto-attack constantly, you you hit about twice in a fight…
With conditions you can kill someone at best in 30 seconds, they reinforce each other on average every 20 seconds… then they turtle and focus… turtle… focus fire… or run + turtle + focus. Of course with chain CC that basically makes you bounce like in a pinball machine.

The things i’ve seen the past 2 days, haven’t seen even in official tournaments.

edit: I might quite playing PvP necromancer all together, there’s simply no room for him in the current high end PvP meta. Stability + mobility + CC > ALL.

I’ve been recently doing high end TPvP with rank 50s… trust me, we are far from OP. I would go so far as to say we still don’t have a place in TPvP…

Here is where i’ll get the L2P shenanigans…

Let me break it down for you, evade block evade block stealth block block block evade evade 6 second CC focus fire 1 shot + evade block evade block block evade evade… wait… wait… there’s engineer condition immune immune immune immune.

Teams that went pro managed to form team composition and prepare a sequence of attacks in which they are close to invulnerable for 5-10 second interval until they CC lock 1 individual down for 5-10 seconds while bursting him… then they break combat running away with no chance of following…

Then they repeat sequence…
Of course they mesmer portal on top of you, must never forget that.

edit: fast moving combat pew pew with max CC and max stability is what wins at the moment. Necromancer is not fast moving, doesn’t have max stability… and pew pew is laughable.

Good day everyone,

Due to the recent changes done to the necromancer class, some of the old builds required updating… so without further ado i give you…

Guild Wars 2 – The Ultimate necromancer damage hybrid v2.0 (perfected tutorial)

Do not be alarmed by the size of the video, in the first few moments of it you will encounter a table of content/menu designed for an easy and comfortable viewing experience.
Who ever wishes to get the quick information from it can simply browse through the categories… and those who wish to understand the full meaning of a “damage hybrid” can sit back and enjoy…

I have also went further in depth then ever before with the explications behind my decisions on why this particular combination of skills, traits, utilities and damage rotation… by adding a proof of concept in terms of math calculations separately for single target and AoE, so we can finally put in perspective what a hybrid build IS.

FINAL STATS:

2769 Power (2917 Power in burst mode)
54% Critical Strike Chance (59% Critical Strike Chance in burst mode)
56% Critical Strike Damage (77% Critical Strike Damage in burst mode)
1427 Condition Damage
70% Condition Duration / 123% Bleeding Duration
2240 Armor
22,611 Health
31% Magic Find
————
+ I have finally fixed the long lasting problem of bleeding over-stacking in a party
+ The ability to adapt and overcome, switch from more AoE potential to more single target potential on the fly
+ Made to be used anywhere and everywhere…

This new way of doing things, while it is a great effort… has brought me a “burst” of positive feedback in the day since i uploaded the video… so i really hope you guys enjoy as well.

If i missed anything or if you have any questions feel free to comment here, on in the comment section on youtube.

PS: If i have to remake this again in the near future due to trait modifications, i thought about splitting these categories into separate videos, so i will just remake the separate categories if need be, instead of the entire video… since it is a 5 days work.
What do you guys think ?

Enjoy

Excalibur.9748:

In sPvP it’s totally dominated by necros since they’re so OP right now. When do you think the nerf will come?

It is not… stop spreading lies.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Sorry, what?
My point was one should first look at, you know, ACTUAL damage builds before labelling DoT builds as ‘too much damage’ and call for nerfs.

Look at my posts… and see how much i spoke against the fact that necromancer is now OP. Look at many many of my videos, and pod casts how much i preached about the real problems of the necromancer…

I’ve been doing it for months… as the game is at the moment, it’s sort of a “i fear you into the ground before you burst me”.

A true PvPer does not like or favor these kinds of mechanics – who can spam faster… i wish to reduce the damage by let’s say 15% in favor of 30% survivability vs multiple especially. The fights will become more… “use your brain to adapt and overcome” rather then “must spam fear before i die”.

If there’s anyone who defends necromancers here, then that would be me…
I even got into sort of an argument with Spoj about it, because he wanted just to nerf us, or so i thought… and i know Spoj, we PvPed together… we recorded together.
That’s how much i defend necromancers.

KarlaGrey.5903:

WTS lessons on reckognizing trolls.
Why so bu??hurt?

I buy 1 dolla, giv… 2 lessons 1 dolla deal yes no ?
Ok i’ll stop, we might get flagged by the admins, and i do wish to post important things in the near future on this forums.

It was nice meeting you mate, good luck.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Aww, since you gotta jump to conclusions, let me break it down for you.
Yes, the 30 30 10 build has a lot of damage, no doubt.
But if you wanna argue about ‘too much damage’, a necro is a far cry from actual damage classes, let alone a spike as shown in the vid above.
It does approach them somewhat, though, after the fear chain starts. But I’m sure most learned by now how to work around the stunbreaker-deprived class that is the necro.

Thank you for breaking it down for me, but as i said… if they are going to do something about this, i wanted to contribute in a constructive way.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Nemesis.8593:

I was curious what people have to say, and i see you….

People had a lot to say about the meta (!), what you on about. Weirdo.

Anyhow, a little tiny bit of me was actually somewhat looking forward to it.
Talk about a let down. But disapointment does seem to be a recurring feeling associated mostly with GW2, so idk why I still expect anything to start with. Heh.

Did you just call me a weirdo ? Hahaha… “u mad bro ?”
“Why So seriousssssssss ?”

It’s just a game ?

KarlaGrey.5903:

Nemesis.8593:

Good day everyone…

So everyone knows the number of complaints about necromancer recently…

Basically the problem is that Bleeding + Burning + Torment + Fear traited with Terror = too much damage…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MlXskSmfpI

This qualifies better for ‘too much damage’.

It even puts the old bs to shame.

Right… necromancer is Ok, everyone should L2P hahaha…

Azraeel.1238:

This is what I’m saying, if they want to work on our survivability, maybe they should work on the Death Magic and Blood Magic trait lines, along side DS, and not on offensive trait lines. Our bunkers lack because the defensive trait lines are quite bad compared to other classes.

I am fine with your trait modifications, as it doesn’t affect my powermancer 30/10/0/030 build in any way.

Yeah… of course any time i release suggestions i try not to break the current builds. Not after all the time i spend making guides on them, there’s a personal interest for me there…

Those guides will get views, those views in time promote the game… and new players may join, which want to know more about some of the classes they want to play… and so on…

KarlaGrey.5903:

Stop discussing irrelevant matters and get the match(es) going, fksake.
Or else, I’ll meta your sorry a§§ all the way to the Moon for giving us a false drama teasers.
Honestly, the 1 month old kittens we got at home are more manly than this. Grow a pair.

Edit: At above, wad kind of reply is dat supposed to be? It doesn’t even qualify for an excuse of an excuse.
Hello Kitten Online —>

At Mods, it appears this thread has served its purpose, for it has been established everyone is a load of scaredy-kittens. You may put the thread to its eternal rest now.

What a waste of time&bandwidth.

Hahaha… why are you so upset ? I was curious what people have to say, and i see you….

As the moderator said… relaxing is sort of the answer. If i were to get upset over all the stupid things people tell me (doesn’t matter who said the stupid things, one side or the other…), i would be mad 24/7.

It’s hard to handle people… especially when they were you down, they are high in numbers or one individual is as stubborn as 300.
I’ve learned in my path to internet fame, to let things slide… there’s simply no time or energy in the world to deal with everyone.

One can only do the best he can… and wait to be loved or/and hated for what he has done…

ps: i know i engaged in arguments as well, and i know i shouldn’t have… but hey… do what the guru says, not what the guru does. GL to you all

Azraeel.1238:

You want to have an attrition gameplay, without putting any points in defensive traits? I find this to be a bit too much. I mean, it is logical if you go full damage, to have less survivability, what you want is to go full damage, and have more survivability. Imagine the staff #5 on several people? Or the wall? Each enemy with a ticking fear is healing you back.

I like this suggestion however:

TheAgedGnome.7520”

I agree – Terror was never the problem.

Reducing the Dhuumfire burn from 4 sec to 3.125 (3 1/8) sec results in an effective reduction from 5.2 sec (4 * 1.3) to 4.063 sec (3.125 * 1.3), due to the 30% cond dur from Spite. This would be a 22% decrease in the damage from Dhuumfire.

This seems like a simple and effective way to lessen the effect of Dhuumfire+Terror without altering either feature significantly.

If a bunker necromancer gets focused… bunker necromancer dies… if a bunker guardian gets focused, he lives for at least 15 more seconds guaranteed…

This change will increase survivability of bunker necromancers as well, but not by too much since they don’t have high bleed ticks… besides… perhaps the bunker necromancer should be about massive Life Force generation… (just a thought).

Keep the initial fear damage, but instead of the +50% more damage you get healing of bleed stacks with a 0.5 or 1.0 (ratio and duration is debatable)… and since you put it in GM curses alongside dhummfire… you can’t have both.

Old condition build’s damage remains the same since we now have torment to compensate for the lack of 50% extra damage from fear when condition is on, and we get the survivability that it is required of a condition – long lasting fighter to have.

The combo with fear – terror + dhuumfire + bleeding + torment is broken…
Since withering precision gets moved into spite, and teamed up with chill… it will make pure glass cannon builds viable by giving them survivability in terms of “acting as a debuffer”.

Also you might want to move Lingering Curse in Curses adept… move hemophilia into Curses masters and team it up with master of corruption so that PvE builds don’t get their bleed duration tampered with… and the free slot could be used for a condition – support/healing type trait.

There has been an opening for that recently with the weakness modification… and the gear with toughness healing power condition damage stats is already present in the game.