Guild Wars 2

Bhawb.7408:

This idea is the death of pure condition builds. I love you Nemesis, but this one went way into left field.

You’ve seen the latest discussion ? You can keep the initial fear damage into it if you must… but the traits movement around from spite to curses and heal on fear would be… something…

There is no problem if we can’t get fear on top of burning, fear loses a bit of damage to gain a significant heal… renounce the heal for burning damage, or take the burning into the hybrid… but you take it from 0 – 30 instead of 30 – 0… and since 30 – 0 is now free for improvements for power build… and withering precision needs a place to go, mix it with some chilling… and you have more survivability for power builds, while keeping in tune with the necromancer theme.

“Acting as a debuffer” – which funny enough are conditions that benefit from condition duration that we have because… spite.
Of course burning has to have it’s base duration increase since it will no longer be in spite…
Anyway… fun stuff, didn’t have time to think about it too much… i spent the last 5 days making my latest video. Going to upload it tomorrow… ohhhh the feedback it is going to get.
Can’t wait

Behemoth.2193:

Interesting thought Nemesis. If the terror “heal” does a decent amount (and scales with healing power) this could be a nice change especially with improved Blood Magic traits that I hope come out next patch. It would probably be moved to Grandmaster tier. Not to hijack your thread, but I think it might be a good idea if….
*Move Terror to Grandmaster (but make said heal be worth the title)
*Move Dhuumfire to Curses Grandmaster
*Change Dhuumfire to 3 seconds of burning on five second cooldown
*Replace Dhuumfire in Spite with a new grandmaster that allows for more sustain in Power/hybrid builds (and not some “hurrrr 10% to toughness we’re done here GJ team”)

This helps because Condi builds get more sustain through terror healing (and possibly Blood Magic changes) so they can actually be attrition builds, or they can choose Burning for more damage. I chose 3 every 5 seconds since most people in PvP don’t spec for condi duration (besides fear) and while 5+ (4 + 30%) seconds is nice, that 10 second cooldown that you just wasted on a guy is nearly dead anyway. This also leaves room for a Spite GM trait focused around sustain, so the common 30/x/x/x/30 builds these days can get some actual sustain in PvP.

*Power gets more sustain in PvP, since even zerker builds can survive in PvE they can keep their CTD
*Hybrid gets more sustain (New Spite GM + new Terror), can still get burning/CTD if they choose
*Condi gets sustain OR damage (and they don’t have to waste points in Spite)

Nemesis agrees…
Burning or healing – fear seems to deserve a place in GM curses, and they don’t mess up any of my builds, that are kind of used… at the moment.

Will actually do everything you said, i had a good idea, you’ve made it better… GG, back to work.

edit: 1 minor note… don’t make it stack with healing, will mess up build combinations and stat variation. Just a standard heal based on bleeds on target… maybe even a 0.5 ratio, maybe even a 1.0 ratio for the duration, maybe add a cap to it… stuff… you know

edit again: ooo… they can move withering precision to Spite and make it apply chill and weakness… you get PvP sustain but in the form of debuffing, especially if you modify it to have proper weakness and proper chill…
This is actually perfect hahahaha…

Upon further consideration i too agree that the “new” terror trait should be moved into grandmaster of curses instead of Lingering Curse… so we avoid builds like 30 – 20 – 0 – 0 – 20.

The point is since fear heals… you have to chose between burning and extra fear-healing duration… that was my point, i kind of missed my own point hahaha…

Think about it… well you guys don’t know my PvP hybrid yet… but it will be able to put people into the ground a little bit better then the old conditionmancer fear build, and be a little less survivable… even with my Terror modification.

And the old fear conditionmancer will turn into the real attrition build, played right you simply can’t kill him… even while getting focused, what good is the fear wall that helps you escape if you die by the time you put it on the ground… now a well place AoE fear on top of AoE bleeds and torment can fully heal you back… you can’t put anyone into the ground any time soon with that damage until they run out of condition removals, but they can’t really kill you either…

The whole point of fear was to overwrite condition removals, that’s how i made the build… now i think it would be beneficial for the PvP necromancer to have… viable playstyle options…

Build variaty… conditionmancer as point focus pressure… AoE sustainer, moves slowly… infects everything and sustains himself by infecting things…

Quite different then the fast-zapping 2-3 second full healing low damage elementalist… but i believe as enjoyable…

edit: I would even go so far as to say increase the burning duration to 6 seconds standard while converting terror damage into healing for bleeding even while in DS.
Will definitely make the PvP conditionmancer a true attrition class, especially with the weakness modification… and will empower the hybrid PvP necromancer just a little bit to compensate for the loss of the fear damage.

Come on guys… i want to 1v4 total noobs in WvW by outlasting them… and using LOS and running and teleporting and basically outskilling them… Now… there’s absolutely nothing you can do in such a situation…

At the same time if they increase burning duration they’ll shift the role of the damage dealer from the conditionmancer to the hybrid, and leave the conditionmancer to play as the attritioner. We’ll have two viable playstyles.

Bhawb.7408:

Terror isn’t the problem at all. Terror was not only fine balance wise, but we were still underpowered even with it. They introduced burning, and now a single build is OP, one that uses both. Hybrid builds do not, nor have they ever needed that trait, they just ran CtD before it existed. Burning is the culprit, and changing Terror is going to kill condition builds. Just make burning less ridiculous (reduce its duration a bit) and we’ll be back to being strong offensively but way too weak defensively.

Yeah… way to weak defensively doesn’t sound very necromantic to me… Thought i would push for a change to one of our builds into a true attrition class…
We had terror which did 1k DPS from time to time… now we have torment that does not as much i admit, but it does something… We stil get focus fired like a m… and now that we are more dangerous, we get even more focus fired.

Make us less dangerous and make us more resilient… so we can enjoy some PvP without everyone yelling “GET THE NECRO !” We are clearly not made to be countering “GET THE NECRO” situations…

Yngvar.7614:

Only if it works in Deathshroud. Furthermore, if they’re going to nerf Terror’s damage, I would expect to see more heals function in Deathshroud (not all of them, but some). It would be very counter intuitive to have a trait that turns our fear into a heal when our most reliable fear is used from Deathshroud, where you can’t be healed.

Well of course haha… i should have specified that, thought it was self explained.

Good day everyone…

So everyone knows the number of complaints about necromancer recently…

Basically the problem is that Bleeding + Burning + Torment + Fear traited with Terror = too much damage…

If you take away burning you ruin hybrid builds, if you mess with Terror you ruin condition type builds that do not benefit from burning… all in all… because of this huge amount of feedback, i believe something will be done.

So here is my contribution towards a solution to this…

You all know how much i love my Fear and my Terror… apparently i am mostly known for my fear condition build for WvW (thought my PvE guides were the main attraction), so i would never attempt to ruin any of my creations…

With that being said…

Current state of Terror: Fear deals damage, and it deals an additional 50% damage if the target has another condition on them.
This combined with everything else deals too much DPS at one point in time…

My suggestion would be that Terror: Fear now converts bleeding ticks into HP for a period of time… how many & what period is debatable.

What this will achieve… will break the combo of bleeding + burning + torment + fear without taking out the burning.

Give a much needed survivability for the necromancer, even VS multiple… since we have access to AoE fear… and will only lower the damage of old condition PvP builds by a small amount… especially since old condition builds now have torment so their damage was increased regardless…

All in all… the combo is broken, old condition builds revert to close their initial condition damage and gain more survivability, especially vs multiple… which their were lacking.

So we can finally play the attrition game as conditionmancers… instead of i fear you into the ground before you burst me intro the ground… is more of a i pressure you, you pressure me back, i pressure you… you pressure me back (now i can hold my ground because i can heal properly).

What do you guys think ?
This was the original suggestion… from here on end i will edit with the final conclusions i have taken based on community feedback.

edit:

Keep the initial fear damage, but instead of the +50% more damage you get healing of bleed stacks with a 0.5 or 1.0 (ratio and duration is debatable)… and since you put it in GM curses alongside dhummfire… you can’t have both.

Old condition build’s damage remains the same since we now have torment to compensate for the lack of 50% extra damage from fear when condition is on, and we get the survivability that it is required of a condition – long lasting fighter to have.

The combo with fear – terror + dhuumfire + bleeding + torment is broken…

Since withering precision gets moved into spite, and teamed up with chill… it will make pure glass cannon builds viable by giving them survivability in terms of “acting as a debuffer”.

Also you might want to move Lingering Curse in Curses adept… move hemophilia into Curses masters and team it up with master of corruption so that PvE builds don’t get their bleed duration tampered with… and the free slot could be used for a condition – support/healing type trait.

There has been an opening for that recently with the weakness modification… and the gear with toughness healing power condition damage stats is already present in the game.

Bubbles.1047:

Nemesis.8593:

Darek.1836:

yup because casting 2-3 marks while running away from me and putting around 8 conditions, ticking me for 2k per second with chill and sometimes cripple as well definitely means Im winning.

8 Conditions that tick 2k per second = 16K DPS, you will die in 1.5 seconds… how come i don’t die in 1.5 seconds from other necromancers… must be my baus aura. Hmm… how come i don’t kill other people in 1.5 seconds ?…

Awww man… baus aura is broken.

Really? Are you that kitten? They meant a TOTAL of 2k per second, not 8×2k. Some people…

Might have misunderstood that…
Going to stop getting involved right about now. Good luck to you all.

Darek.1836:

Sepreh.5924:

Theres a secret in the necro community

How to beat a necro:
Attack. Get into melee range, cleansing conditions if you are against a condition necro. CC. Damage.

Necros cant blink, teleport, invis, etc. Once you are in melee you are pretty much good. You will lock them down and kill them. If the necro tries to run away at any point, you have already won.

I know this is an oversimplification but this is a way to start to adapt your play style to fighting a necro. Like I have to adapt my play style to fighting a mesmer, thief, etc.

Adapting playstyle does not mean a class is OP. It means they have different vulnerabilities and strengths than your class

yup because casting 2-3 marks while running away from me and putting around 8 conditions, ticking me for 2k per second with chill and sometimes cripple as well definitely means Im winning.

8 Conditions that tick 2k per second = 16K DPS, you will die in 1.5 seconds… how come i don’t die in 1.5 seconds from other necromancers… must be my baus aura. Hmm… how come i don’t kill other people in 1.5 seconds ?…

Awww man… baus aura is broken.

gunnerCRO.5017:

I don’t know you but it wouldn’t matter. even if i did know you I would tell you exactly the same thing: Do not put words in other people’s mouth, especially if they are my mouth. Nothing you write is even remotely what i said. (no sarcasm in my sentences)

What i said was not in any way a cheap shot that had any intention of undermining necro players, and if you interpreted this is such a way (which i have a feeling you did) than you sir have a problem with comprehending other peoples thoughts (although it may be the forum mentality where everybody’s full of prejudices).

Furthermore, you did one thing I asked you not to – you tried to convince me that necros are harder to play than eles (which is completely ridiculous). I notice that you are some kind of big shot here (there was a bit of sarcasm here to be honest), but that does not make you right in everything you do or write.

And by now you people should have realized that necromancer is not very mobile. So, do not wonder why you died if your positioning is wrong. That’s purely on you, not class or Anet.

Until you show me how to position on a wooden beam that is so thin… that more then 2 people can’t be on it, therefor forces a 1v1, positioning will never ensure you won’t get 1v2/3ed…

Hmm… got to find a wooden beam and carry it in my backpack, then convince people to fight me on it.

It’s not about being a big shot or not, and i was unusually mean in what i wrote, i don’t normally get involved, but people took it to the next level…

Necromancers are now not only OP, but so easier to play… it’s like warrior 100B or thief heartseeker spam.
Trust me… it’s annoying…

Anyway, back to my work… been working for like 4 days on a new video for you guys…

gunnerCRO.5017:

@Nemesis – I really don’t like you saying elementalists are OP… if class with the lowest health pool and weakest armor in the game is tough to bring down, it is mostly because of the very good play. We all saw tons of elementalists trying to reproduce what they saw in videos once and failed miserably.
Elementalists are by far tougher to master then necros – and truth to be told some class features were easily exploitable in the hand of a skillful player. On the other hand to play necro effectively you need IF half as much skill. (please don’t try to convince me otherwise because you will not succeed)

And to conclude, necros are not op. they may have need some tweaks and polishing but they are decent as they are. To beat them you need some skill, which a lot of common gamers don’t simply posses.

So the fact that before patch if i were to join hot join in on my over 1500 ours of play necromancer, and 2-3 players came up to me… i would die 95% of the time no matter what i do… and if i switch to my 5 hour played elementalist, join hot join… i NEVER died no matter how many tried to focus fire me.

This proves that elementalist are so much harder to play then necromancers, and so much easier to kill right ?…

I can prove what i said at any day of the week, but that won’t convince you right ?…

ps: there was a lot of sarcasm in what i said ?… i don’t know if my english is that bad for people not to get it.

Darek.1836:

Nemesis.8593:

Darek.1836:

everyone should be running engis with immune to conditions trait because conditions are OP AS kitten right now.

seriously though, what class can remove enough conditions to negate a lot of necro’s damage? I mean like full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.

“I mean like a full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.”

One of the most stupid things i have ever heard… You actually scream out that you can’t completely shut down necromancers anymore ? You are trying to find the class / build that can make necromancers just go AFK like it was before with bunker elementalists with -50% chill duration or close to fear immunity ?

Oh i’m sorry… the times necromancer was a free kill are gone… cry that your free kill is gone all you want, it was inevitable…

Complete counter to necromancer conditions he said… need to find a "complete counter to almost perma-stealth thief, or a way to stop bunker elementalists from always disengaging a fight when ever they feel like it.

Say mate… you wouldn’t know a “complete counter” to elementalist mist form into blink into ride the lighting into fire would you ?… ELEMENTALIST OP !… and nerf thief too… perma-stealth wth is that crap… let me see now, yeah… guardians can become invulnerable, what the f… is that NERF !…

Moa anyone ?

yeah its called immobolize for the elemtnalist lel
CC perma stealth thieves when they throw down their fields.. wow
Im literally just trying to find out if its even possible to mitigate necromancers by a fraction if you fully spec for it on any class, but you obviously can’t comprehend that and think the necromancer is completely fine as having no counter.

How did you get from “full on complete counter” to “having no counter”… are you being sneaky ?

Oh… and i will so try to immobolize the mist form elementalist, i will be the one that immobolizez the elementalist’s mist form, for i am Nemesis…

Darek.1836:

everyone should be running engis with immune to conditions trait because conditions are OP AS kitten right now.

seriously though, what class can remove enough conditions to negate a lot of necro’s damage? I mean like full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.

“I mean like a full on complete counter to necro’s conditions.”

One of the most stupid things i have ever heard… You actually scream out that you can’t completely shut down necromancers anymore ? You are trying to find the class / build that can make necromancers just go AFK like it was before with bunker elementalists with -50% chill duration or close to fear immunity ?

Oh i’m sorry… the times necromancer was a free kill are gone… cry that your free kill is gone all you want, it was inevitable…

Complete counter to necromancer conditions he said… need to find a "complete counter to almost perma-stealth thief, or a way to stop bunker elementalists from always disengaging a fight when ever they feel like it.

Say mate… you wouldn’t know a “complete counter” to elementalist mist form into blink into ride the lighting into fire would you ?… ELEMENTALIST OP !… and nerf thief too… perma-stealth wth is that crap… let me see now, yeah… guardians can become invulnerable, what the f… is that NERF !…

Moa anyone ?

Andele.1306:

Nemesis.8593:

If necromancer could do what you say… i would AoE kill everyone my friend… i will team up with 4 other necromancers i know, and we’ll remake the movie 300…

Rangers: Our arrows will blot out the sun!
Necros: Then we will fight in the Shroud.

Necro: Air, Earth, Fire and Water? You’ll find plenty of em when downed.
(dhuumfires, chillblains, grasping dead and wail of dooms ele)
Elementalist: No profession, Necro or Engie, can condi burst a Ele!
Necro: You shame the life force from my fellow servants of grenth with your sustain. You insult conditions. You threaten my minions to turn them into elementals! Oh, I’ve chosen my words carefully, Ele. Perhaps you should have done the same!
(Terror burst that got blocked by armor of earth)
Elementalist: This is blasphemy! This is madness!
Necro: Madness…?
(casts lich)
Necro: This is LICH FORM!
(instagibs ele)

And ofc:
NECROMANCERS! Ready your minions and trait your wells… For tonight, we fight in the underworld!

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha… oh my god, i had to laugh… breath… write…

infantrydiv.1620:

Here, let me do a little comparison between necro and thief:

Necro
-A ton of powerful AoE abilities that are easy to hit a thief through stealth with
-Highest health pool in game
-DS: A form in which you have access to massive ranged and AoE burst abilities as well as being temporarily invulnerable to damage to your normal health pool
-Condition cleansing: A heal that removes all condis, Staff #4, Plague signet, a well that flips condis to boons
-Conditions: Access to every condition in the game other than confusion on low cool down skills that already do decent direct damage.

Thief:

-Almost no AoE
-Lowest health pool in the game
-Stealing: Gap closer with decent special attack
-Condition cleansing: Stealth, 1 every 3 seconds.
-Conditions: Other than venoms, thief conditions are mostly either blinds or bleeding, blind fields are small and easy to avoid, bleeds are easy to wipe.

If you are losing to a thief in 1v1 situations on a necro, you need to reexamine your build.

I’ve spent twice as much time on my necro as my thief, but when I hear people actually complaining about thief I find it ridiculous. SO WHAT if the class can ‘run away’, if a thief runs away that means you were beating him, obviously. It’s the freaking assassin/rogue class of GW2, that means it should be more mobile than the other classes.

Necromancer’s burst is out of control right now. Unlike thief, it requires absolutely no positioning or special conditions (like heartseeker needing 50% health to be effective). A necromancer with life force can wait for a thief to strike, hit DS 3 and then hit DS 1 for a -7K- hit and the thief is already at half health (or below if burning/terror damage is part of the build). Even if a thief manages to stealth his way up to a necromancer and hit him for a 10k backstab (highly improbably), that’s a smaller percentage of the necro’s health than what I just described the necro being able to do.

So you hit 7k with DS 1 while having condition damage for burning and fear damage and terror trait ?… Can you teach me how to get 80 talent points as well ?…
You need 25 stacks of might to hit people 7ks with DS 1, and of course full glass cannon, which means no terror… no condition damage for burning.

If necromancer could do what you say… i would AoE kill everyone my friend… i will team up with 4 other necromancers i know, and we’ll remake the movie 300…

FuzzyRamen.4902:

Galtrix.7369:

Prepare yourselves: The nerfs are coming.

But in all seriousness, Anet tends to have selective hearing when it comes to balancing classes. Ranger and Engineer get ignored, Elementalist and Mesmer continually get nerfed, Warrior, Guardian, and Thief are the only somewhat balanced classes in the game, and Necromancer’s got a one time buff (I think).

When someone complained that Thieves were op, Anet was quick to pull out the nerf hammer and swipe away at anything the players said were op.

Yet, when my Ranger is completely ignored every single patch and I write dozens of posts about the Ranger being underpowered, (I’m not alone here, there are literally hundreds if not thousands of underpowered Ranger posts in the forums), Anet does not hear any of us.

So if I were you, I wouldn’t use the words “Necro” and “OP” in the same sentence, because Anet may swipe at you with their hammer of nerfs.

Agreed, ANET buff things that are never used, and they nerf classes like Elementalist and Mesmers that can’t use the changes. Rangers are starting to get their buffs soon after half a year. My Mesmer/Necro gets destroyed now in SPvP from infinite stealth Thieves, and rush down Warriors with retaliation, so only way to save myself is run into my team to attempt to get them off me.

Long time ago… i had a screenshot in which it shows how i got killed and by what… “3 x Heartseeker 38000 damage”. Tell me in those times thief wasn’t OP.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Nemesis.8593:

Jackums.3496:

Is a Thief really complaining about another profession’s burst right now?

Let me enjoy this. Go on, continue.

Grab a chair and sit down, saved a spot for you… i’m still watching and laughing, this is great.

This confuses me. We agreed earlier in the thread that the Necro should be more about attrition than burst, did we not?

RedSpectrum.1975:

Jackums.3496:

Is a Thief really complaining about another profession’s burst right now?

Let me enjoy this. Go on, continue.

He isn’t complaining, everyone thinks that when something is posted about their class that isn’t advice on how to do better, it’s a complaint. Since I main a thief and alt a necromancer idk but from the start I could feel his emotion was more so of awe and surprise. If I were in his shoes I’d be surprised by being bursted down by a necromancer. I think you guys are missing the point, you’re making fun of a thief for “complaining” about burst when you’re only proving his point, thieves are known for their burst, not necros, so when a necro bursts you down it’s like a, “uhh what just happened?” Not a OMG NERF. That outta the way what is this attrition you guys throw around what does that mean ? :p

Thank you, this is my point.

It isn’t OP for the Necro to have really high spike condi damage, lots of AoE damage, lots of CC, and some built-in defense but little disengage and escape. That setup can be obnoxious for some specs to deal with (which is its own problem) but it does still have inherent trade-offs. But it’s not how the Necro was advertised and if Anet leaves them like they are, it will be the laziest possible way to balance the profession. We are supposed to be an attrition class, a class that grabs onto our foes and squeezes the life out of them as they struggle to escape. Not a profession that spikes them into the ground the moment they come within range. High burst is fine conceptually, but it isn’t what sold me on the Necromancer. It’s all the nasty tricks we can pull. We finally have an apex build like many of the other professions, and that’s bad. Like with apex builds of the other professions, it’s going to warp every other build by comparison.

NECROMANCER OP
Long story short, i don’t use burning, i got moa-ed, i killed him… necromancer is OP.

Doesn’t it makes the blood rush to your head when you see how every random … no matter how … he is he still expects to kill a necromancer, and if he doesn’t we are OP ?

Sorry mate, maybe it seemed a bit offensive… it was just a joke, a comeback to all the times i’ve been called OP NOOB the past 5 days.

I don’t even use burning in my builds… and while i do agree that it would benefit the overall balance a lot more if the combo burning + bleeding + terror gets a bit of nerfed and we get some anti-focus survivability instead… all the threads that just ask for necromancer nerf get to me.

The mesmer was rank 9, and i was rank 29… but necromancer is OP because he could not kill me. I’m just sick and tired of how many times people called me OP noob… all i did was modify my build to fit torment in it… is torment OP now too ?

I have nothing against you, you seem like a decent fellow… but these threads, and the whispers… anyway, sorry if it came out a bit strong.

Jackums.3496:

Is a Thief really complaining about another profession’s burst right now?

Let me enjoy this. Go on, continue.

Grab a chair and sit down, saved a spot for you… i’m still watching and laughing, this is great.

Am i the only one that still can not do this ?… it has been bugged for me since day 1.
I get the “Investigation Kit” while inside the instance, the small chat sequence is triggered after i use it on Mai Trin, the quest gets updated… i go outside of the instance to speak with the NPCs i have to find.

None of the NPCs have the dialog options that need to activated in order to finish the quest, furthermore the item doesn’t seem to be “ticking” when i try to use it anymore…

If i destroy the item and try to get a new one by going back in the instance, same thing happens. If i don’t destroy the item and i just go in the instance… i watch the dialog again… and i do not get a new item.

I have tried every single day… in all possible ways i can think of… nothing…

Hey guys… i have something for you…

NECROMANCER OP

Long story short, i don’t use burning, i got moa-ed, i killed him… necromancer is OP.

Doesn’t it makes the blood rush to your head when you see how every random … no matter how … he is he still expects to kill a necromancer, and if he doesn’t we are OP ?

Tobbygnome.6793:

Nemesis.8593:

Hey guys… i have something for you…

NECROMANCER OP

Long story short, i don’t use burning, i got moa-ed, i killed him… necromancer is OP.

Doesn’t it makes the blood rush to your head when you see how every random … no matter how … he is he still expects to kill a necromancer, and if he doesn’t we are OP ?

lol dam really, people are actually calling us noob OP class in PvP? That’s really interesting. I played sPvP after the patch quite abit but recently WvW is more fun, i didn’t realize so many randoms jumped on this OP bandwagon. I’m just glad enemies can’t talk in WvW without a party invite. ^^

Did you see his level ?… Because a lvl 9 mesmer couldn’t kill a lvl 29 necromancer, necromancer is OP… and he MOA-ed me while we were 1v1-ing…

So… because he didn’t insta-win with MOA at lvl 9 vs a necromancer, the necromancer is OP.

Hey guys… i have something for you…

NECROMANCER OP

Long story short, i don’t use burning, i got moa-ed, i killed him… necromancer is OP.

Doesn’t it makes the blood rush to your head when you see how every random … no matter how … he is he still expects to kill a necromancer, and if he doesn’t we are OP ?

Hey guys… i have something for you…

NECROMANCER OP

Long story short, i don’t use burning, i got moa-ed, i killed him… necromancer is OP.

Doesn’t it makes the blood rush to your head when you see how every random … no matter how … he is he still expects to kill a necromancer, and if he doesn’t we are OP ?

Because i played warlock for 4 years in World of Warcraft or because i am excited for epic armor after all this time ?

Rok.5260:

I think Hellfirearmor is for Warlocks silly, but I wouldn’t mind some on my Necromancer…

I was a warlock for 4 years… oh yeah baby !

Nah man… all you need is some epic armor… wait wait… what’s that… aaaaahellfirearmor.

sas.6483:

Nemesis.8593:

The real problem they said necromancer is “borderline OP” in the rare situations when everything “clicks in” and you have AoE burning + AoE bleeds and you drop AoE fear on top… you can wipe a team…

Yes… no character should be able to do that, that is OP.

I would like to know exactly how the theorycrafting behind this works out, because to be perfectly frank I don’t believe that it can happen unless the team is stacking on a single spot for 5+ seconds while the necro is casting, are all glass, and refuse to use their heal buttons.

At very high end pro stuff it can… but very very rare… let’s say there’s a fight somewhere, and someone gets 6-7 conditions on them.

With precise team coordination you can insta AoE knockdown at the same time dagger 4 / staff 4 + staff 2 or scepter 2 into epidemic + stakitten . Basically you would have in 4 seconds a chain combo that would put 12+ stacks of bleeding on the enemy + burning + be in fear… if they are already weakened, they will all die if you so much as sneeze towards them.

That’s what i think they were referring to in the podcast when they said “if you really play it right, you can sometimes wipe a team”. I see no other way to wipe a team except that one…

edit: why does it censor stakitten ? S T A kitten , STAFF and a 5

Blaine Tog.8304:

Aight, I decided to test this on some dummies in the Heart of the Mists., since I’ve always wondered whether switching to DS for #1 spam were a strict damage increase or not. Using the build described in the video, here are the averages of three tests each to kill a Medium dummy. In each case, I used BiP (without applying the bleeds to the dummy) and simply pressed 1 until the dummy was dead. I had to use a Sigil of Accuracy instead of Perception because there appears to be no way of stacking up sigils in the Heart of the Mists, so this means my crit chance was only at 40% (35% with dagger because of the Sigil of Rage).

Axe: 9.2 seconds
Dagger: 5.6 seconds
Deathshroud, sub-600 units: 6.0 seconds
Deathshroud, 601-1200 units: 7.5 seconds

My Sigil of Rage didn’t proc at all during the Dagger tests. If it had, we can assume it would’ve dealt 4.5 seconds of damage in a 3-second period, which means the average time for Rage-proc tests should be around 4.1 seconds, and the DS time would’ve been 4.5 seconds and 6 seconds respectively, assuming the target lived through the whole Rage proc.

These results are far from exhaustive, but it would appear that the Dagger does indeed have the best DPS on its #1, with DS coming in at a close second. This doesn’t mean you would ideally just sit in Dagger 1 all the time, of course. I suspect switching to DS for some 1s is better overall because of the might and vuln you’d bring back with you to your Dagger or Axe. 12.7, 15.7,

EDIT: I did this test with a Staff as well for funsies. Average time was 13.8 with a Sigil of Force and 14.0 with a Sigil of Accuracy.

EDIT: And with Lich Form: 5.5 seconds, though I cheated a bit to get that (BiP, Lichform, blew threw a Light, Medium, and Heavy golem at during one Lich Form casting and then took the average time of that).

Well… these calculations resemble my own, so yeah… like i said, my recommendation for going into power is: get a build that you can stay in melee and range, and while at range you empower your melee… while in melee you assure range DPS uptime which empowers melee which… tam tam tam.

Ryn.6459:

Nemesis,
Will you update your others builds? I hope so

I will after we get nerfed… game might changed a bit more, and what ever i do now will not be up to date then. I am waiting for the 9th this month to see what happens.

The real problem they said necromancer is “borderline OP” in the rare situations when everything “clicks in” and you have AoE burning + AoE bleeds and you drop AoE fear on top… you can wipe a team…

Yes… no character should be able to do that, that is OP.

The second problem is that while that is very strong vs multiple in the rare occasions it happens, but doesn’t make it any different in 1v1, it’s something that is really strong if it clicks, and while it shouldn’t do that vs multiple… perhaps it should do that vs 1 target…

Third problem would be that ArenaNet wants us to be an attrition class with low mobility and high attrition, which i totally agree with… i don’t think we should be given mobility and stability and be turned into an elementalist… So we have Death Shroud to compensate for our lack of mobility.
Here’s the catch… a thief goes into stealth to escape 1 player or 5 players, a mesmer goes distorted to escape 1 player or 5 players, an engineer eats an elixir to escape 1 player or 5 players… guardian becomes invulnerable.

A necromancer can absorb damage from 1 player to escape… dies instantly from 5… if DS is to be used to compensate for that, it would be either too much for 1v1 and enough for 1v multiple, or not enough for 1v multiple…

Now add the lack of mobility and stability / escape mechanisms… and we have the perfect class to be focused. No chance = free kill = GG.

The only way i see this getting fixed is with additional mechanics vs being focused… like Reaper’s Protection moved somewhere more accessible and have an additional effect such as: “Resets in 90 seconds AND resets every 3-4-5 consecutive CCs done in 90 seconds under 90 seconds”… therefor DS remains the same and doesn’t imbalance 1v1, and focus fireing gets punished…

The real problem they said necromancer is “borderline OP” in the rare situations when everything “clicks in” and you have AoE burning + AoE bleeds and you drop AoE fear on top… you can wipe a team…

Yes… no character should be able to do that, that is OP.

The second problem is that while that is very strong vs multiple in the rare occasions it happens, but doesn’t make it any different in 1v1, it’s something that is really strong if it clicks, and while it shouldn’t do that vs multiple… perhaps it should do that vs 1 target…

Third problem would be that ArenaNet wants us to be an attrition class with low mobility and high attrition, which i totally agree with… i don’t think we should be given mobility and stability and be turned into an elementalist… So we have Death Shroud to compensate for our lack of mobility.
Here’s the catch… a thief goes into stealth to escape 1 player or 5 players, a mesmer goes distorted to escape 1 player or 5 players, an engineer eats an elixir to escape 1 player or 5 players… guardian becomes invulnerable.

A necromancer can absorb damage from 1 player to escape… dies instantly from 5… if DS is to be used to compensate for that, it would be either too much for 1v1 and enough for 1v multiple, or not enough for 1v multiple…

Now add the lack of mobility and stability / escape mechanisms… and we have the perfect class to be focused. No chance = free kill = GG.

The only way i see this getting fixed is with additional mechanics vs being focused… like Reaper’s Protection moved somewhere more accessible and have an additional effect such as: “Resets in 90 seconds AND resets every 3-4-5 consecutive CCs done in 90 seconds under 90 seconds”… therefor DS remains the same and doesn’t imbalance 1v1, and focus fireing gets punished…

Rennoko.5731:

flow.6043:

I gotta back up Blaine here, thieves are at a huge disadvantage against a 30/30/10 necro.

I play against some thief buddies from other servers in WvW on a regular basis. They can not win in a straight up duel if I use Dhuumfire. It’s about as futile as a necro fighting an S/D thief pre-patch.

I currently play 20/30/20 (w/o Dhuum) with a 20% crit chance, but when I switch to 30/20/20 my crit chance drops down to 15% and I still win against thieves every time because of burning.

You win because the thieves refuse to run additional condition clears. If they are running their available additional condition clears, and you are still beating them on necro, it is a skill issue. Think fighting a phantasm mesmer that slots condition removal everwhere.

I agree that a normal D/D, S/D using his roaming around build is likely going to lose in a…. duel….. with a necro (the only time they ever stay around long enough to die). If you are dueling people consecutively, and they are not swapping around their traits/skills to deal with your conditions, then they deserve to lose. Thief has the best available toolkit to kill necro now, before, and always. The fact they choose to not use that toolkit is their problem.

The extra 800+ burning damage is a game changer, if and only if you refuse to acknowledge necros can now do more than bleed and lightly poison you. Once you recognize that not taking additional condition clears is going to kill you, you will be fine.

… but but but ! taking condition removals prevents them from taking more “leet skillz” to one shot people. This simply can not be ! “We must stop them !” – Magg reference anyone ?

It’s not about if a dagger oriented build does more then a DS 1 oriented build… it’s about DPS uptime. I have created a build in which you have the most DPS uptime no matter where you are and what you fight…

I have also shown that dagger 1 even though it has higher hitting potential… it hits slower then DS 1 because of the delay between activation times… which puts dagger 1’s overall DPS at about 20-25% higher then DS 1, not 50% higher.

If you build towards a dagger 1 melee build you will do about +5% on top of the 20% more damage vs single target (compared to DS 1) IF you manage to keep 100% DPS uptime in melee.

If you take my build you lose that +5% on top of the 20%… but you gain a lot more AoE burst since well of suffering and life transfer will always crit, and crit with higher power ratio… and you can still be melee and range depending on the circumstance.

With that being said… i don’t like or approve of a build which is 5-10% stronger, but glass cannon melee only, but that’s just me… maybe i’ve done too many dredge fractals to have the patience for melee with no cleave…

Molch.2078:

Bajenalex.3405:

ChungHan Ho.5837:

Hi, Molch, you mentioned in another thread that theoretically dagger does 30%-50% more damage than axe or DS1. So does it mean that dagger is a better option than axe/DS build for a pure direct dps role? Thank you.

Haven’t you been listening to Nemesis? It has better DPS but (probably) worse DPS uptime! Have a dagger on the second weapon set and use it if you can but you can’t stand in 130 range 24/7 with a glass cannon build. Getting downed will make you lose more DPS than you gained by using the dagger.

To Molch: Interesting points and math! Thanks for spreading the message! It’s always easy to miss something and you pointed that out perfectly. Also kudos to Nemesis for admitting this. ^^

Man, I love this community. Everyone are so helpful. Keep doing what you do, guys!

The DPS uptime of Dagger is up to you. If there are people meleeing mossman in lvl 50 fotm with a glasscannon thief who has 12k hp, you can’t say that melee DPS uptime < range DPS uptime. And sometimes melee is even easier then range.

If you are experienced enough to use the dagger, you will do more damage. Especialy in organized groups.

Fade.1743:

Since you’re using one well, would Focused Rituals be a good alternative over Reaper’s Precision if you’re going with the 30/10/0/0/30 build?

If the situation needs you to use your well on range, Focused Rituals is a must. If you are fine in melee, it’s a don’t. Change your traits the same way you change your utilityskills – it always depends on the situation.

All i have to add to this is that dagger 1 doesn’t do 50% more damage then DS 1, because it attacks slower, it’s more of a 25%… but like Molch said, if you are skilled enough you can do more damage at melee.

What i am saying is that if you have a build that you can go melee and range with it, if you reach a situation where you can melee that’s fine, if you can’t… you shouldn’t be dead weight, you have options.

You have to take in consideration where you are, who are you with… and not just your personal skill but the level of tiredness… we all have bad days, some days you shouldn’t melee cause you’ll be more dead then alive = low DPS uptime.

If you make a build just for melee, you might be overall 5-7% more effective then in my build – melee mode, or about 50% less effective because you are dead all the time… or not dead… just not DPSing.

It’s up to you guys what you wand to do, but now you know what is what…

ps: a long time ago i said that melee takes more risk therefor it has to do more damage, otherwise why would you ever play melee… if you do more damage at range with less risk… balance

flow.6043:

I’m not bashing our class.

But how much enjoying while it lasts can be done when all we do is “win most 1v1s and lose all 1v2s”?
Since our suvivability is still lacking (which is an entirely differnet issue btw) I’d rather be an underdog again like we were pre-patch rather than dominating every 1v1 encounter.

But seriously now… at least now we’re good for something.

It doesn’t matter what we all bicker here about, balance is balance… and it will be achieved regardless of personal preferences and “feelings” of certain players. There’s a bigger picture here… if the game wants to be an ESport that is…

I had my doubts about ArenaNet in the begging because this game was lacking certain aspects, and then i saw… “the hellfire armor”.
They are learning… they are listening. Maybe no one from the ArenaNet staff heard me preaching for months about EPICNESS and ARMOR and combined = PROFIT…

Maybe they didn’t hear it from anyone as a feedback, yet they made this choice on their own… i don’t even know which one is better… the fact that they listen to the community, or the fact they don’t have to and still make good decisions.

Regardless… ArenaNet has my faith for the time being, this year… maybe the next, maybe for ever… Maybe i hit the jackpot and buy it

flow.6043:

… rather than dominating every 1v1 encounter.

… there always was, and always will be “MOA”.

flow.6043:

I gotta back up Blaine here, thieves are at a huge disadvantage against a 30/30/10 necro.

I play against some thief buddies from other servers in WvW on a regular basis. They can not win in a straight up duel if I use Dhuumfire. It’s about as futile as a necro fighting an S/D thief pre-patch.

I currently play 20/30/20 (w/o Dhuum) with a 20% crit chance, but when I switch to 30/20/20 my crit chance drops down to 15% and I still win against thieves every time because of burning.

I do not understand why you keep trying to bring necromancer down. ArenaNet will either make it right… buff or nerf as needed, or not… as a marketing tactic, just like they do with Starcraft 1 and 2, you need to buy the next 3 expansions to get your balance.

The thing is… if it were up to you we would get nerfed, and that would make necromancers remain not present in high TPvP official matches.

Sure… remove our burst, give us the ability to not be focused… or let us keep our burst. Between you and me i’d like that particular bursting potential to be nerfed and gain some anti focus survivability instead.
I much rather have a proper fight… then win most 1v1s and lose all 1v2s…
But just asking for nerfs will put us back where we started if ArenaNet listens, i don’t think they will simply nerf us without giving us something in return.

Why bash the class ?… Why do any of you bash your own class, if it’s OP enjoy it while it lasts… or at least be objective, ask for reduced damage and increased survivability.
After all the things this class has been through… you guys don’t want to enjoy a bit of OPness (if any ?). Have some fun… we were underpowered for a while now…

Oh… i’m sorry, i’m sure there were many people before patch that could 1v2 easily. I have a mate, his name is Shiva… me and him is enough to bring down any necromancers even now. But me and him sometimes we could not kill our mate Nash… which with his bunker elementalist escaped the both of us like 40% of the time.

Anyone want to take me up on that challenge ?… Me and Shiva vs you… you don’t have to win, just survive for more then 20 seconds.
A thief could, an elementalist could… a guardian could and an engineer could…

A… and warriors were bad before patch too, i don’t know how they are now.

Blaine Tog.8304:

It is suddenly much clearer to me why everyone else seems to think that spec is OP.

That burst…..

_

A thief talking about burst ?… no really… do go on

Necromancer was bad before patch… hot join was a nightmare for a necromancer, and 1v1 even though more or less balance you could never fully win a fight, players would just leave the fight as soon as you win, and you could not follow.

Were weren’t “very” bad, we were only bad in one aspect… which regrettably it’s the one aspect that everyone uses in general to begin with.

In PvP people tend to zerg if possible… as the months passed people started realizing that if you zerg a necromancer he is dead meat… so not only we were zerg-able, but people were putting a lot of effort into zerging us.

90% of the time when you would out skill a player he would instantly run and come back with someone else for a sure win… it was more or less a nightmare. We had to use cunning, clever tactics just to compensate for these facts… while others face roll on keyboard in numbers.

So… necromancers were not bad as a class, they just had a backdoor so to speak… a major weakness, and it was exploited to the max.

Anyone claiming otherwise… can you please tell me how exactly you survive 4 chain CC burst from 2-3 players ? If pulled off correctly you are dead in 4 seconds through Death Shroud with absolutely no way of countering it. You are literally CCed the entire 4 seconds… and then you are dead.

Skill can only be used if you have a chance to press any button… it wasn’t skill based…

edit: I’ve watched the curse organised tournament… 8 teams… 1 necromancer. Could it be that necromancer was actually good, but no one bother taking one… maybe it’s a coincidence…
I don’t know how many of you noticed what won the games… it wasn’t damage or defence, it was CC and mobility. It was a race of who can CC and out mobility the other team…

I may not have enough experience to play the PvP game cause i have not practiced much, but i have many many years of PvP experience in many different games, i know how to read and interpret what i see…

Well Molch… good theory crafting right there, and it is appreciated. While the build and my video is very good, if it’s missing a 5-6% here and there i don’t mind. Took me 4 days in total to make it what it is… the finishing touches can be added by the community… i don’t mind.

If i get people that know very little about making a proper power build and get them as far as i’ve gotten them, i’m ok with that.

You took seriously a lot of the things i was saying in the video, but keep in mind i am struggling with english, even more so when i am trying to concentrate on what i say, how i say it… and if i said everything.

I said you will never reach 25 stacks of might with DS 1 alone… but you have a head start with blood is power. I’ve said that at one point in the video.

Also since you reach about 14-16 stacks of might with DS 1 if you are lucky… you can blood is power the rest, and when blood is power the rest… and when IT is on CD, you can benefit from the other buffers in your team. All you have to do is wait for the buffer to buff you… and when those expire sneak in a blood is power.

So you do actually have ~ 25 stacks of might 95% of the time, i have tested that in dungeons… and it actually is the case.

Now going into curses… reaper’s precision is a little bit extra, but it’s never something noticeable. Doing bleeds… i’ve gotten up to 5 with dagger 1… without quickness proc, add some blood is power to it and we’ll have good times. It’s very rare… but i do not approve of it.

The toughness however i found very useful in many situations in which the mob was coming directly for me… that 400 toughness was actually the difference between me getting 1 shot or not…

As for the math part… this is quite… interesting… i’ll have to test this, i haven’t taken into consideration sigil of bloodlust, my goal was 50% critical chance then dumping everything into power and critical damage… the most power you can get now since blood is power is in the mix would be might stacking.

While i don’t entirely agree with the calculations… i believe you’d win 4-5% more damage by doing it your way, not 6…

But yeah… i think you have successfully found a way to improve my build by 5%. I like to think i would have figured it out myself if i wouldn’t have spend 4 days on the actual presentation… and had more time to spend on the numbers, but who knows.

I’ll give credit where credit is due though.

/bow

edit: I’m coming to this post again… that’s how impressed i am. You actually manage to give me a 5% boost on my build. Dude that is awesome… while i am a bit upset at myself for not providing the best possible combination, one can only do so much in terms of time spend / day on something.

I’m really impressed with your way of squeezing just a little bit more out of it with cleaver gear combinations… that’s my role haha…

I wish to applaud you once again… and i will test it myself to see if i see much of a difference, +-5% isn’t a lot, but it is something.

Bellamy.9860:

Hey nemesis, great video. Thanks for the work you are doing for the necro community!
Catched a small mistake and wanted to let you know. While counting your dagger chain attacks in 33seconds you skipped the 5th chain. So you get one less chain in (16 instead of 17) and the damage per 33s should decrease by about 6 percent.

Now you see how hard it is for me to do these things… i struggle with english, on top of heavy editing on top of remembering everything i have to say, on top of making sure i explain it right so everyone understands…

It’s a lot of work…

@Targuil.3741

Wiki use to state 15% before this patch, i’ve looked at wiki and it said “updated” and now states 10%, so i’ve placed 10%…

And yes… in some cases it is worth it to cast DS 5 in your DPS rotation, but in a real scenario you burst up to like 150.000… since you benefit from might and 20% more damage on targets under 50% health… so if the targets are not dead by then, that means you are in a dungeon… and if the targets are still not dead by then… with the contribution of your team, then you’re not using a correct build for the encounter.

I said in the overview… don’t use this build for encounters that require heavy AoE damage. This build won’t get the job done in dredge fractal 48… but it will make CoF p1 2 times faster then a condition build would.

As for the giant… yes, i do it faster with a condition build too, because as a condition build damage dealer i have 100% DPS uptime. While i was fighting the giant i had to tank it as well, and tanking takes out of my DPS uptime and max DPS capabilities, since it eats my DS.
At the same time… as a range glass cannon you are not suppose to tank, therefor your damage will increase dramatically, not only from higher hits due to higher might stacks, but also from DPS uptime.

Last… the tests i’ve done for myself are far more complex then what i have shown in the video. I don’t think i have the english required to explain them, or people have the patience to go even further with it.

I’ve missed the sigils (quickness on dagger), warhorn 5 for dagger… then comes the probabilities and statistics… where can you use what, and how much time you can actually use that “what”.

Since none of my hits crit in the target dummy, and since in a “with curses” build you can actually get to 100% crit chance with dagger 1 as well… but you lose a lot of critical damage to do it, you also apply bleeds in the process which ruins it for some of your other team mates.

Anyway… i just wanted to give the people a general feel about the concept that “nothing beats DPS uptime”. Also to put into perspective… kind of which skills do what…
I’m not saying use this or that… i’m saying use all of them so you can have 100% DPS uptime. I’m also saying that in my build… while you DS 1 you empower axe 2 and dagger 1, which in return allows you to go back into DS 1.

It’s beautiful….

Azraeel.1238:

I run a very close build, just with way more survivability. Knight Armor/Berzerk the rest, 30/10/0/0/30. Weakening Shroud and Near to Death.

Which skills Dark Armor works with?

Do you have particular rotation?

It’s not a standard rotation… as i’ve explained… it’s about DPS uptime. Lich Form > dagger 1 > DS 1 and you have to cycle through those to get 100% DPS uptime.
The beauty of this build is that DS 1 empowers dagger 1 and axe 2, which in return give you life force so you can stay in DS 1 which empowers your…

You keep empowering yourself while keeping up with 100% DPS uptime, which is what truly matters.

Also dark armor works with Ghastly Claws, Life Transfer and Life Siphon… Life Siphon and Ghastly Claws are sort of what you will be doing if you are in danger and not in DS. If you are in danger and in DS, it will eat up your DS and then you are back to the safety of continuous DPS uptime while at range and at +400 toughness…

As i first laid eyes on the leaked patch notes, i knew i would be making this build… it took me a few days to perfect it, and a lot more days to actual record and edit it, but i have remade my initial glass cannon guide…

Guild Wars 2 – redefining the glass cannon necromancer (perfected tutorial)

I have finally find a way by which people that are looking for a shorter version of the entire guide can now have what they want.
At the same time people that want to hear the whole story, how and why everything was designed this way… they can, within the same video.

I have also went further in depth then ever before with the explications behind my decisions on why this particular combination of skills, traits, utilities and damage rotation… by adding a proof of concept in terms of math calculations of the actual DPS over a benchmark of 30 seconds.

FINAL STATS:

3501 Power (+875 from 25 stacks of might)
51-54% Critical Strike Chance (100% Critical Strike Chance while in Death Shroud)
106-110% Critical Strike Damage
1934 Armor
19372 Health
10% Boon Duration
————
+ the ability to act as a debuffer – by adding up to 24 stacks of vulnerability on a target
+ up to 75% overall damage increases
+ the ability to have amazing DPS even while having a DPS uptime of 100% = highest overall DPS
+ the ability to stack 25 stacks of might on your own

This new way of doing things, while it is a great effort… has brought me a “burst” of positive feedback in the day since i uploaded the video… so i really hope you guys enjoy as well.

If i missed anything or if you have any questions feel free to comment here, on in the comment section on youtube.

Enjoy

They will make all necromancer builds be able to obtain Life Force more easily… and squishy power builds even easier…
They always intended “but you have Death Shroud”… and now they will make it happen.

BondageBill.4021:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Oh, I don’t disagree. If they’re going to take shots at our condition pressure they better be prepared to give something substantial in return. I’m sure most competitive necromancers wouldn’t mind taking a hit there if it meant getting an actual escape in return because right now the biggest issue we’re facing as a class is how easy it is to assist train us.

Here’s the thing: I don’t think having a slow immobile class that is a damage powerhouse is bad for the game. In fact, it adds variety.

Think about how many classes in this game are fast, mobile, bursting roamers: pretty much any viable damage class (expect HGH Engy). If you are not a roamer, then you are likely a bunker. IMO, the game could use more roles as long as they result in balanced gameplay.

A class that is slow, immobile, easy to CC and dominates team fights if not dealt with? I still think it could help the meta.

(Completely off topic, every time I type meta today, it first comes out as meat. I must be hungry…)

I couldn’t agree more… this is exactly what i envisioned necromancer to be after this patch, i also thought it is what ArenaNet wanted for the class. They didn’t give us more attrition like i suggested with my DS 5, so we can be annoying a lot… like something that keeps coming and coming, like a bunker elementalist. They made us a real threat.

Until now they were focusing us because we’re the most easy to be focused, but if they don’t focus us… well… nothing too bad happens. Now they will still focus us, but at least if we escape… something bad happens, something very bad.

I like those odds, now i know that i got zerged for a reason… now i know they fear me instead of “oh look… free kill… weeeee”.

Anyone claiming that a necromancer can escape being focused by 3 skilled players is a liar. Hell… sometimes even two skilled players are enough. It still is the only class that can’t escape focus fire…

Softspoken.2410:

Nemesis.8593:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Honestly, as a Necromancer, I don’t mind Terror becoming a grandmaster trait. It’s so build-defining that it always surprised me that it was so low to begin with. I kind of hope that if they do this, they can just get rid of Withering Precision and replace it with something more meaningful.

Maybe they could give us a trait that actually helps in PvE and PvP, like a further 2% damage to opponents for each condition on them (stacks with Target the Weak) or something like that.

Noooooo… withering precision is now key to attrition necro…

I realize Weakness got buffed, but didn’t that trait get kind of nerfed? It seemed to me that adding the internal cooldown of 20s really gutted where the trait shined before, which was builds that critted very frequently.

But we have 2 other ways of getting weakness on now…

I don’t think they will… and if they do, it’s a mistake.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Honestly, as a Necromancer, I don’t mind Terror becoming a grandmaster trait. It’s so build-defining that it always surprised me that it was so low to begin with. I kind of hope that if they do this, they can just get rid of Withering Precision and replace it with something more meaningful.

Maybe they could give us a trait that actually helps in PvE and PvP, like a further 2% damage to opponents for each condition on them (stacks with Target the Weak) or something like that.

Noooooo… withering precision is now key to attrition necro…

hackks.3687:

Burning is not going anywhere. I wouldn’t worry about that.

I don’t see removing the 50% bonus damage as “messing with condition builds”. Even without burning, we still have the addition of Torment, and the new aoe immob on Tainted Shackles, Wells on shorter CDs, in addition to Signet of Spite change… I mean there’s all kinds of ways to do crazy damage now. It would just be nice to have some options at the other end of the trait lines to make choosing between damage and utility a little harder. Right now all out damage is our best utility and the only way we live up to our intended design.

No… the fact we have enough damage to not be “negligible” danage, we can focus on more utility… more attrition in a condition build.