Guild Wars 2

wiazabi.2549:

Necro will slow down a dungeon group no matter what.
Would i have choosen another class if i knew the state of the necro ? yes but stuff were said about necro giving false hope.

You can hope for the trait patch coming soonish and stick with your necro og go with mesmer if you wanna help your group the best.

Say what now ?… Lol… slow down the group… and i suppose guardians do more AoE damage then a condition necromancer, or mesmers…
Fractals = AoE AoE AoE…

Chullster.3608:

Don’t run the 30/10/0/0/30 build; it’s crap.

the real dps for a necro is 30/30/0/0/10

So… a full glass cannon build is crap, and a hybrid build is the real dps for a necromancer ?…

So where does the conditionmancer go then ?… or you think you can do more AoE damage with the hybrid ?…

Hmmm… what gear and weapons do you use in your 30/30/0/0/10… If you say berserker i will leave this thread… never come back…

Bas.7406:

Nemesis.8593:

Can you guys tell me at which hour will the tournament take place ?…

The thing is on the 19th my guild will be doing guild missions starting at 8 PM CET, and they mostly do them for me… cause i can never make it on sunday at the appointed hour…

If we can do the tournament like an hour and a half later or maybe anytime sooner that would be very good for me.

It’s 1830pm GMT – we cannot reschedule them on the 19th.

Wait… the thread says it’s on the 19th ?… isn’t it on the 19th ?

What does 1830pm mean ? 18:30 PM ? Cause that would be like 9:30pm CET… and my guild missions start at 9pm CET… so i may just make it.

Can you guys tell me at which hour will the tournament take place ?…

The thing is on the 19th my guild will be doing guild missions starting at 8 PM CET, and they mostly do them for me… cause i can never make it on sunday at the appointed hour…

If we can do the tournament like an hour and a half later or maybe anytime sooner that would be very good for me.

Fhenrir.5297:

Nemesis.8593:

Bas.7406:

Nemesis.8593:

Bas.7406:

It’s coming don’t miss out on a chance to rep the Necromancers!

Where do i have to be, when ?… Give me a target to kill

Nemesis you play LoL?

Yeah lol… i play LoL. Use to be really good at it too. I had an average in ranked of 14 – 2 – 10 with my main hero: Cassiopeia. Tried a few games the passed days, i even managed to get 3 – 6 – something.

I am ashamed…

Nemesis, can we organize a few training sessions for this? I’ve tried to pm you ig multiple times without success

Lol training sessions or… for this tournament ?… If we can get some training sessions for this tournament, that would help a great deal, but it has to be all of us.

Tactics + team play > solo skill each time…

Bas.7406:

Nemesis.8593:

Bas.7406:

It’s coming don’t miss out on a chance to rep the Necromancers!

Where do i have to be, when ?… Give me a target to kill

Nemesis you play LoL?

Yeah lol… i play LoL. Use to be really good at it too. I had an average in ranked of 14 – 2 – 10 with my main hero: Cassiopeia. Tried a few games the passed days, i even managed to get 3 – 6 – something.

I am ashamed…

Bas.7406:

It’s coming don’t miss out on a chance to rep the Necromancers!

Where do i have to be, when ?… Give me a target to kill

I am still looking for 1-2 more people… in total i have 7 people that wish to help me now, the problem is they are never online at the same time.

If i get 1-2 more people, then maybe i can at least get 3 out of 9 online at the same time. 3 people is all i need…

You can never kill a good bunker elementalist, at best what you can do is make him go away.
You can do that in two ways, and you have to apply both of them… bunker elementalists have low damage, and rely on fire and earth to deal the real damage… dodge their fire damage, dodge the lightning charge to prevent getting into a CC lock since we don’t have stability, CC them back when they get into water to heal and cleanse all…
Never apply all bleeds at once, but rather have 7-8 bleeds on him, wait to get cleansed, then apply 7 more back…

You won’t kill him… cause he will mist form + blink away… but you will make him go away. That’s the best one can hope for…

A good bunker elementalist has… hmmm… 5 condition removals ?… yeah… i think 5, and on low CDs… That + the mobility they have = no way to win… seriously, just consider them as the condition necromancer counter and focus on other classes.

That’s my take on this.

Pyroatheist.9031:

shyrith.3462:

You will likely get kicked from pug fracs if you are too lazy to change a utility slot. So I hope you have a static group you do everything with.

Your crediblity is rapidly deminishing when you make claims like that, and that 2 necros share bleeding. They just don’t. There must have been something else you weren’t taking into account. Which at this point wouldn’t surprise me.

My guess is that he had bleeds that ticked for …70 per tick, and the 2nd necro had bleeds that ticked for 130ish per tick, and the 2nd necro overwrote his ticks, and so you get a double kill speed. The third necro had lower bleeds than his, probably around 50 or 60, and overwrote some of the higher ones, resulting in a kill speed similar to the original one.

yeah… and i don’t read what you write…
Thanks for the feedback on the build, it was most valuable.

Hello everyone…

I have just finished the final adjustments i wanted to make to my Twitch.tv channel, and as the title says i will start to lives-stream in the next days.

Esports for Guild Wars 2 seems to be slowly moving forward, so if and when this game rises as an Esport, i intend to be there… I have a lot of catching up to do though, since all this time i have been focusing on the PvE aspect, youtube guides and so on.
Fear not… as the game is not yet fully balance, by the time it is… i will have learned a few more tricks.

So… first time i will stream will be on Friday the 14th of June from 6PM CET – 11PM CET aka 8AM PDT – 3PM PDT.
I will also be taking any questions that you guys may have regarding anything, we can even do some tournaments together, or go through some other interesting and exciting content/games.

Nemesis live-stream channel... I hope this is the start of something great, both for me as a gamer and for you guys as viewers…

I’ll see you guys soon

When you are saying in your build phantasms do 119% more damage, are you saying they do double the damage mine do ?… I can quickly re-trait again and see if they hit 14k on average in your build, i can even record it…

Up to 26% damage on auto-attack…
Empowering Mantras: 4% more damage for each readied mantra x 3 = 12% +
Compounding Power: 3% more damage for each of your active illusions x 3 = 9 +
Superior Rune of the Eagle: (6): +5% vs. targets with less then[sic] 50% health = 5

That’s… 26% so far… in a perfect world that so rarely happens of course, but we’re comparing maximum potential, i think…

Wastrel’s Punishment: 5% increased damage to inactive foes… that would be 31%, but i’m not that cheesy rofl.

ps: I already said you make valid points, and it’s a worthy alternative. Thanks for taking the time to debate these with me in a polite fashion…

Let’s assume i completely agree with you (i won’t give up on my build, i find it still valid), am i the only person bothered with the fact that mesmers according to what many have said… “must” bring utility, that is why they are taken for ?…
I just got here… but if that it’s true, then don’t mesmers want to be in some builds equivalent to warriors… as warriors would be equivalent to support elementalist in some builds.

When i first set my eyes on guild wars 2… i remember hearing “you don’t have to wait for a tank or a healer or a DPS, any class can take any role… you are not stuck into one role, but every class will perform that role in a different way”.

So yeah…

Edit: i will even recommend your build to people that would want to do bring some support to the party when doing dungeons/fractals.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Nemesis.8593:

A few i saw before where “sometimes you do this… other times you do this…” i don’t, and i always preach against them. All the benefits in those builds together would overshadow any of my builds… but those benefits never truly come together, so you are stuck sucking and everything…

This lovely little soundbite shows just how little you have been listening to everything myself and everyone else has been telling you, but I’m done explaining now. I don’t need to bash my head against a wall of ignorance. Everyone in this thread so far as pointed out the deficiencies in your build but you refuse to listen to anyone. There is no need to waste more time on this failure.

Again you come at me… i have so much work i barely have time to read properly and reply. Yet i do so…
Your build and the way you do things is exactly the reason i started making videos in the first place, people thinking that they can do it all, and they do nothing properly in fact.
Having a condition damage weapon in PvE and using conditions without condition damage stats is a waste. You also advertised false numbers with your build, which i carefully tasted to be sure i wasn’t wrong.

See me calling you a failure ?… Yeah… we’re done.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097… the latest build you have shown me does what you advertised. You still missed out my ability to add vulnerability but that’s ok.

Same phantasm damage if not a bit more at times + party support and great damage vs mobs with projectiles (yours) vs… well… same phantasm damage if not a bit less at times + GS DPS uptime and vulnerability stacking.
I agree… i also think your build is very good, your build… not the ones with condition damage weapon and healing and… and and and…

Pyroatheist.9031:

Nemesis.8593:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Nemesis.8593:

If you could fit me the duelist in this build i would literally delete my video… but i’m guessing who ever designed the build system made sure you can’t really get duelist and focus reflects…

In a team pve situation, in a build with high phantasm crit chance, you want to stay away from the duelists out of courtesy to your team.

Duelists do an 8 shot unload, and in a high crit build, this will generally stack between 7 and 8 bleeds on the target. You get 2 duelists, and you’re hitting 13-16 bleeds continuously. This is great for your personal dps, but if you have a competent condition class in your party, their dps is now getting crippled, and since your bleeds hit for far less than theirs, your party dps is also getting lowered.

The 10/30/0/25/5 build is a strong phantasm build that I use regularly (without mantras, because that’s silly). A few weapon tweaks and you get my Overpowered PvP Phantasm Build. I will also run it in some dungeons.

However, since the majority of my PvE content is fractals, the 20 points in illusions to get phantasmal haste for the wardens is extremely important. There are several fractals and fights where having that phantasmal haste is really key, and so even if I could do higher damage in general without it, taking that trait is worth it for the possibility of needing it.

The DPS is not actually crippled, i have tested long ago the bleeds stacks… but i wasn’t even able to post my results because of the method i used to get my results.
Suffice to say that 2 bleeders are ok, 3 are not…

What i did was bug the first boss in SE, and auto-attack it with scepter 1… average bleeding stacks 23, killing time 4 minutes.

I got a second necromancer with the exact same build and stats… we auto-attacked together… we took each other’s bleeding stacks you could say, yet the killing time was exactly 2 minutes 10 seconds.

I got a 3rd necromancer with the exact same build and stats… we auto-attacked together… took us 4 minutes and a few seconds to kill the boss.

Well, your testing is wrong, because the bleeding stack mechanics are not a hidden thing. Additionally, your testing is very obviously wrong because with 3 necromancers it took longer than with 2 necromancers.

Bleed stacks go up to 25, and then stop. If half of those bleed stacks are low damage ones from your phantasms, then the necromancer won’t be doing proper damage. With additional bleed stacking, the necromancer can push out the low damage stacks, but since your phantasms keep attacking, they will continue to push out the necromancer’s stacks.

Suffice to say, bleeds don’t stack higher than 25, and that’s the limit you have to work in. Duelists cripple the effectiveness of other condition classes in your party, and that’s not really a point for discussion.

Shows that 2 bleeders don’t cripple each other out… only 3 bleeders do.
The 2 bleeders had a combined stacking potential of 43 bleeds… if you get capped at 25, then the time of the kill would have not been exactly half… would have been considerable longer.

The fact that 3 bleeders took as much as 1… means that there are some hidden mechanics to how 3 bleeders interact with each other. While i do not claim to know these mechanics… the fact remains that i have demonstrated that two bleeders that can stack 23 bleeds on their own… do not cripple each other in a team.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

More numbers because now I’m in a “number mood.”
These are your stats and (mine)
~ 3360 attack with phants at 3864 (3533 with phants at 4592)
81% *Critical strike chance (assuming you also have fury, this should be 100% for you and 120% for phant while my build is 81% and 101%)
*113%Critical strike damage (you have two exotics so 118 is actually the same)
~ 1839 Armor (The same but my build has more reflection/condition removal)
~ 16,169 Health (17582)
Auto attack multipliers 12% + average of 6% (16%)

So phantasm damage, my build wins hands down. Same crit chance and damage with more power. Specifically, (4592)/3360 x 100% = 119% more damage.
Let’s compare auto attack.
3360 with 18% bonus & 100% crit chance of 113% damage = (3360 × 1.18) x (1+1(1.13+0.5)= 10427.4
3533 with 16% bonus & 81% crit chance of 113% damage = (3533 × 1.16) x(1+ .81(1.13+0.5)) = 8197.6

These two numbers are unmodified by armor and will be much lower. However, I also have sigil of fire (The flame blast has a 1.0 damage coefficient and cannot critically hit.) This is a 30% chance of aoe on a 5 sec cd and the damage coefficient in this case is 4000 every ~6 seconds or once every 3 gs auto attacks. So on average, 8197.6+4000/3 (aoe) vs 10427.4. Assuming single target, 10427/(9530) x 100% = 109% more damage on your auto attacks.

SO 119% more damage from my phantasms while 109% more damage on your auto attack and phantasms are doing most of the damage. I’m also less squishy and bring more utility. Hands down, your build is not ultimate in cannon. Ultimate glass? sure but not cannon.

I don’t calculate damage modifiers so i don’t miss out on stuff, i calculate raw visible damage AT a “preset” stat value. So for me it’s an average of… this much, at these stats…

Yes mate i already said i like the build, you dropped the DPS uptime of greatsword in favor of reflect uptime. That means you will do way more damage vs mobs that have projectiles also provide support during those times, i have less damage overall… but at all times.

Yes it is nice, i like it… what i wanted was to make the most glass cannon glass cannon… with the only support being acting as a debuffer by applying stacks of vulnerability while interrupting, which you do quite often because of pistol 5 and 3 mantra interrupts…. the extra vulnerability you bring to the party on top of the up to 26% extra damage from your greatsword… as well as the fact that you can attack at all times from 1200 range… makes my build a cannon, a glass cannon.

But yes… your phantasms do as much damage as mine, if not a bit more (although mine hit more on mobs that have vulnerability on them, which i can provide with the interrupts)… but you lose vulnerability… you can reflect… which does more damage vs mobs that have projectiles and less against anything without projectiles.

Sword – pistol / Sword – focus in your build… gives you everything you advertised… lacks GS DPS uptime.
Some would argue that in the current PvE meta yours would be more efficient… To that i say: “mine should be buffed…”.
They wanted to have viable diverse builds… guardian mustn’t always be tank, mesmer mustn’t always be support… necromancer mustn’t always be conditions…

If you come and say that my extra DPS uptime from GS is not worth it compared to the reflect you bring to a group in a real scenario… then i demand more greatsword DPS… so you are faced with a real decision.

One last time… the build you have shown me now, i approve of and i like… I see what you lose and what you gain.
A few i saw before where “sometimes you do this… other times you do this…” i don’t, and i always preach against them. All the benefits in those builds together would overshadow any of my builds… but those benefits never truly come together, so you are stuck sucking and everything…

Pyroatheist.9031:

Nemesis.8593:

If you could fit me the duelist in this build i would literally delete my video… but i’m guessing who ever designed the build system made sure you can’t really get duelist and focus reflects…

In a team pve situation, in a build with high phantasm crit chance, you want to stay away from the duelists out of courtesy to your team.

Duelists do an 8 shot unload, and in a high crit build, this will generally stack between 7 and 8 bleeds on the target. You get 2 duelists, and you’re hitting 13-16 bleeds continuously. This is great for your personal dps, but if you have a competent condition class in your party, their dps is now getting crippled, and since your bleeds hit for far less than theirs, your party dps is also getting lowered.

The 10/30/0/25/5 build is a strong phantasm build that I use regularly (without mantras, because that’s silly). A few weapon tweaks and you get my Overpowered PvP Phantasm Build. I will also run it in some dungeons.

However, since the majority of my PvE content is fractals, the 20 points in illusions to get phantasmal haste for the wardens is extremely important. There are several fractals and fights where having that phantasmal haste is really key, and so even if I could do higher damage in general without it, taking that trait is worth it for the possibility of needing it.

The DPS is not actually crippled, i have tested long ago the bleeds stacks… but i wasn’t even able to post my results because of the method i used to get my results.
Suffice to say that 2 bleeders are ok, 3 are not…

What i did was bug the first boss in SE, and auto-attack it with scepter 1… average bleeding stacks 23, killing time 4 minutes.

I got a second necromancer with the exact same build and stats… we auto-attacked together… we took each other’s bleeding stacks you could say, yet the killing time was exactly 2 minutes 10 seconds.

I got a 3rd necromancer with the exact same build and stats… we auto-attacked together… took us 4 minutes and a few seconds to kill the boss.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Nemesis.8593:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Edit:

You realize you are telling me passive bonuses do nothing right ?…

The passive bonuses do not affect phantasms. Don’t trust me on that. Go to mists. Grab a steady weapon.Trait 0/30/0/0/10
Leave all traits blank. Look at your average/highest phantasm hit. Now try again with the mantra/illusion traits. See for yourself. Now also look at the auto attack to make sure the traits are working.

….

% damage passive bonus traits do not directly boost your stats so those passive bonuses do nothing since phantasms draw directly from your primary stats of power/crit chance/crit damage. The exceptions are Empowered Illusions & Phantasmal Strength since they explicitly say illusions/phantasm damage. You were testing the wrong thing. On a side note, if the mesmer has fury it increases the mesmer crit chance which stacks with the phantasm having fury for a total of 40% crit chance bonus to the phantasms.

Stop comparing other builds like pyros to your build. Of course a full zerker build is going to do more damage. Traits on the other hand are not always as straight forwards, especially for the mesmer. What you should be comparing is another full zerker build to your build. This is why I mentioned the proposed build. It’s YOUR build with 25 traits changed. So how about you adress the main portion of my previous post.

Since you insist on a link, I give you an even more optimized DPS while also bringing more utility with minimal swapping since that seems too painful for you.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsdRl4zionRTlGaNJxZGQf5oFQqgqL9A35W2A-jwxAYLBRCCAZJiJvioxW4KiGruGT5SEVLFQEjBA-e

Since phantasms are doing most of you damage and they now do more damage and happen more often, this build will do more damage than yours. Also, more focus 4 for stacking enemies in balls so that your aoe will actually hit 5 targets. IF that isn’t an option, I’ve left the pistol trait in the build as well. There is a mantra heal that is decent so, why not grab that for 16% bonus to auto attacks instead of your builds 12%. This also means you get to remove conditions twice with your mantra heal instead of your sigil of generosity at random. Again, fury double stacks for phantasms and in a high level fotm group, someone in your group should be giving fury to everyone. Therefore, I’ve picked a few different different foods/sigils (bloodlust & fire) to boost power/crit damage rather than precision. Since this is about optimal DPS in high lvl fotm, these are valid changes and something you should consider in your build since 120% crit chance is the same as 100%. In the end, your phantasms will still have 100% crit chance while the build has 3533 power, 118% crit damage with 30% more phantasm damage (4592 effective attack) instead of 15% and some utility. To keep things simple, no traits or mantras need to change other than feedback on occasion. You can swap pistol/focus for what feels better for each fight. So out of the box, this modified build is better than yours.

However, you should be swapping your traits/utilities depending on each fight. By the time you get to fotm 10+ the fights don’t change. You know what the enemies do and should plan accordingly.

Now this i like… you gave up on the bigger GS auto-attack in favor of some reflect… damage stats are high, damage means it will be the same, at least from phantasms, you get utilities and feedback.
What’s the main damage source though ?… duelist was my favorite… few things beat stacking 3 of these amazing snipers at 1200 range.
If you could fit me the duelist in this build i would literally delete my video… but i’m guessing who ever designed the build system made sure you can’t really get duelist and focus reflects…

Anyway… i like it… it’s not a pure glass cannon but it’s a kitten nice build regardless.

Agony.3542:

Nemesis.8593:

Stats effect phantasms… after all this talking i went in game again and tested again just to be sure.
I had my normal build duelist hit 6k+ every single time… then i went into Pyroatheist.9031 build… and in order to get to his critical strike damage and chance i had to remove my rings, necklace and back piece. I had exactly his critical strike chance and critical strike damage… duelist could barely hit 3000…

I did this for about 10 minutes going back and forth while explaining to someone what i am doing and why… because i was a bit frustrated at that point.

…

It’s not a difference from 1.3k to 1.7k… it’s more like 1.3k… 3.4k + DPS uptime since you are at 1200 range.
Pyro’s build has different stats combinations so it’s not that squishy, my getting some gear off i actually matched his stats… So no… didn’t lose any power.

Listen guys… i never said my build is the best… the first video i ever made on youtube, the first thing i ever said was “there is no best damage build”, only “best at”.
Every few days people come up to me and say “so what’s the best build out of all you made for the necromancer”. And i just roll eyes and start explaining… there is no best damage build, only best at… glass cannon has highest single target damage, the conditionmancer has the highest AoE damage, hybrid is in the middle… you decide.

I never said my build is the best, i only said that the builds that were made by the people that said my build is the worst ever… those builds are falsely advertised.
Every here and then a little false advertising… with a wall of “bonuses” that never come together at once, with unreal damage that is never achievable at those stats… but the most important bit is the fact that someone claimed that they do the same if not more damage then me and provides more utility and is less squishy.
That more damage = unreal numbers that are not correct + situational reflects (not every single mob in this game has projectiles)… and likes i said, the amount of utilities advertised is… you know.

It’s like internet companies advertise “internet speeds of up to 100000MB/s” and you get 1MB/s, then you phone them and say “dude wtf…” and they politely make you read the contract… “UP TO blabla speed”.

My build does what it advertises… it may not fit other people’s playstyles… but it is the glass cannon, and it is correctly made… and keeping in tune with the glass cannons, the support it brings to the table is “acts as a debuffer”… = vulnerability, and can stack quite a bit of it.
In principle theory and practice it acts and respects all the characteristics of a glass cannon…

Some of you may think that the extra damage you get compared to a damage-support hybrid is not worth it… how about you plea for some more damage from ArenaNet, so that full glass cannon builds are more viable, and mesmers will no longer be “taken into groups just for utility”.

Ryn.6459:

Nemesis,
try the following (keep in mind that is just an exemple):
-go to the mists, and try to kill the npc-thief or the npc-ranger in there, only with reflections (your toon can go naked).

You’ll see how fast she/he goes down (actually is quite hilarious). It will outdamge any other way totry to kill them.

Remember, it’s just an exemple about what people is trying to make you understand: for a mesmer, utilities will outdamage direct damaging stats.

I understand this and don’t deny it… but that’s only vs projectiles. Direct damage, any non projectile spell, any DOT effect… waves don’t work either right ?…
So you would do the same or more damage if the entire game had only projectiles, but it doesn’t… so direct damage is more consistent…

skcamow.3527:

Agreed the 30% damage modifier seems to not be sinking in though many have spoken about it.
@Nemesis, I posted a 10/30/0/25/5 build yesterday in this thread, and DuckDuckBOOM suggested the same trait setup. Here is the link:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Defining-the-glass-cannon-mesmer/first#post2188377

Use the same gear you have for your nuker, but use these traits/utilities. Try it with the duelist, warden, iZerker, and Warlock to compare. Doing this you will at least be able to get a good idea of the damage potential. Or, even better, take this build or Pyro’s into a dungeon with a party and you’ll see it’s intended use.

Haven’t tested yours yet… but it seems a bit better then Pyro’s. His had half critical strike damage and considerable lower critical strike chance. He was also healing without healing power, adding conditions without condition damage… and so on…

In this build stat wise you sacrifice critical strike chance but not that much, crit damage is still high… The weapons… not sure how much DPS uptime you can get with them at long range… but at the same time you benefit from the support part.

After i test it i may call it a “worthy sacrifice”. Even though the damage is lower… you get something that compensates.

PS: testing in this mists is not invalid but sometimes it is hard to notice, since damage grows exponentially with higher stats… when you do 8 hits and they all crit at 113% crit damage vs when you do 8 hits with only some of them criting at 50% crit damage, damage goes down by a lot.
Such high stats can’t be obtained in the mists… so… naturally you’ll have to do like 1000 tests and the difference will be small each time, small stat difference.

Easier and more reliable test in my eyes is stat matching + trait matching. I have done a few average hits as my build… then i matched the damage stats + traits of your builds… (didn’t match the healing and survivability bit but that is irrelevant to damage).
The answer is clear.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

The reason I posted a simple 10/30/0/25/5 is that it is supposed to be your build modified. Just take 20 out of domination (200 less power) 5 less of illusions (average 6% less damage to your auto attack) and those 25 go into inspiration for 15% more phantasm damage. All dueling traits are the same for the sake of simplicity. The focus in inspiration is traited for. The other by default is for glamours. All armor and foods remain the same. You can look in my previous post for all the math of why it’s better. Stick with 3 mantras if you want as default. So same crit damage as your build. Just 200 power trade for 15% phantasm damage. Do you still need a build because it can’t get much simpler than this?

Balance is based on PvP. A phantasm build is good in 1v1 but doesn’t perform as well in team fights so overall, these builds are “balanced”.

With that in mind, some traits are just better than others and the game isn’t perfectly balanced.
Furthermore, there is also the idea with balance of high risk/high reward or high skill/high reward. Knowing when to reflect, knowing when to cast your p.warden, knowing how to focus pull will result in more overall damage. Being in melee will do more damage than sitting back.

Your build isn’t even new. Look for Lazy Kai’s mesmer build on the forum. It’s lazy…

Edit:

You realize you are telling me passive bonuses do nothing right ?…

The passive bonuses do not affect phantasms. Don’t trust me on that. Go to mists. Grab a steady weapon. Trait 0/30/0/0/10
Leave all traits blank. Look at your average/highest phantasm hit. Now try again with the mantra/illusion traits. See for yourself. Now also look at the auto attack to make sure the traits are working.

Stats effect phantasms… after all this talking i went in game again and tested again just to be sure.
I had my normal build duelist hit 6k+ every single time… then i went into Pyroatheist.9031 build… and in order to get to his critical strike damage and chance i had to remove my rings, necklace and back piece. I had exactly his critical strike chance and critical strike damage… duelist could barely hit 3000…

I did this for about 10 minutes going back and forth while explaining to someone what i am doing and why… because i was a bit frustrated at that point.

drongas.4189:

just a lil test inda mist without any utility couple min ago. this build not kill heavy golem faster than phantasm build 10/30/0/25/5 and 10/15/0/25/20 with same wep spec. so where the truth? better be mantra nuker without any usefull util or phantasm mesmer without uselles util? i repeat, golem die similar on second phantoms atack

You realize you are telling me passive bonuses do nothing right ?…
Edit: this is getting tiresome… if he wants to give me a link to his build then i will give take a look at it, like i said… regardless of the outcome there is something to learn from it. If he doesn’t then that is fine as well…

The only reason i reentered the conversation is because, while i do keep my numbers truthful… others fake theirs.
Any newcomer that has no clue what is going on actually believes you can do 8k with phantasmal warlock (no buffs / help).
I tried the phantasmal warlock with 5 conditions on the target at 113% critical strike damage… it hit for 5k. In his build Pyroatheist.9031 has only 60% critical strike damage, not to mention lower critical strike chance, but hey… a crit is a crit…

So if he hit 8k… i should be hitting an easy 12 ?… Right… i hit 5k… I have seen it with my own eyes. You can’t say it’s not like this, i have tested it… i have seen the numbers…

Ryn.6459:

Nemesis, I said that i really like your work. And still do. But this is getting ridiculous. Trust me on this one: a mantra nuker build will not outdamage the above build.
Forget raw numbers in here.

It surpasses Pyroatheist.9031’s damage, i have tested it… i can provide video of that if you want. I am now waiting for a link from DuckDuckBoom…
Regardless of the outcome… it either won’t surpass my damage, or it will… in which case an imbalance has occurred, and either my build needs to be buffed, or his nerfed…

If you have a build that sacrifices damage traits/stats for utility and still does more damage then it will be addressed. Wouldn’t you agree ?

Pyroatheist.9031:

Nemesis.8593:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

How about this, lets modify the phantasm build so we can compare what you like “Ultimate Damage”. 10/30/0/25/5 to your build of 30/30/0/0/10. Phantasms aren’t affected by the 3% per illusion or the 4% per mantra. Again, watch your own videos. Even against a boss fight which is 5v1, you still don’t always have 3 illusions up most of the time. In the ascalonian fractal, you usually have 0-2. so realistically I will say AVERAGE of 6% bonus to your auto attack. Since we have still gone 30 into dueling, you can take the mantra 4% trait if you like.

So base attack with your build is 3360 with 6% average bonus auto attack damage and you don’t even use the sword half the time. Base attack with my presented build is 3160 without that 6% BUT with 15% more phantasm damage so the phantasms have 3634 attack. I’m ignoring mantra buffs because each of the builds have it.

So right here, this build already contests your build in the “ultimate damage” category but there’s more. You admit that maybe you should go focus instead of pistol for PvE. This is excellent news and shows your growth as a mesmer. So with a traited focus, there is of course reflects with 4 and 5 but lets ignore that for now. The traited p.warden is now happening 20% more often at a higher base attack than your builds p.warden. Furthermore, with a bit of practice/knowledge of how into the void works, you can start to consistently ball up enemies for your illusionary blenders so that their theoretical 5 targets actually happens. This also buffs your teams AOE DPS. So even with a hybrid between your build and pyro’s, I think it’s safe to say my proposed phantasm build is “MOAR ULTIMATE DEEPS” than yours.

Feedback will also recharge faster and with focus 4/5, you have basically 100% reflections uptime. Then bonus retaliation for when your phants die or regen/vitality is icing on the cake.

“Arrogant ?… i spend 30 minutes defining and argumenting each and every one of my decisions so i can discover and define a glass cannon build…”
30 minutes when some of us are at around 1000h + on our mesmers. Anyone can spend 30 minutes on a build. If you were qualified, you would never have picked halting strike. You failed at creating the ultimate DPS because you don’t even know what all of our traits are capable of.

Link build ?… his build had half my critical strike damage, and considerable lower critical strike chance. I don’t understand how people keep saying their damage is higher, when their damage stats are lower…

If you link me your build we can take a look at the stats…
Also if you somehow manage to get higher damage, with lower stats… isn’t that called a loophole ?… exploit ?… bug ?… OP ?

Actually, it’s called smart play.

Well you said 8k damage… and you boosted those numbers quite a bit, you said heal every 3 seconds, when it’s actually 4 seconds +. You also gave a list of benefits that actually never come together at the same time.

So naturally… i would like to see a link.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

How about this, lets modify the phantasm build so we can compare what you like “Ultimate Damage”. 10/30/0/25/5 to your build of 30/30/0/0/10. Phantasms aren’t affected by the 3% per illusion or the 4% per mantra. Again, watch your own videos. Even against a boss fight which is 5v1, you still don’t always have 3 illusions up most of the time. In the ascalonian fractal, you usually have 0-2. so realistically I will say AVERAGE of 6% bonus to your auto attack. Since we have still gone 30 into dueling, you can take the mantra 4% trait if you like.

So base attack with your build is 3360 with 6% average bonus auto attack damage and you don’t even use the sword half the time. Base attack with my presented build is 3160 without that 6% BUT with 15% more phantasm damage so the phantasms have 3634 attack. I’m ignoring mantra buffs because each of the builds have it.

So right here, this build already contests your build in the “ultimate damage” category but there’s more. You admit that maybe you should go focus instead of pistol for PvE. This is excellent news and shows your growth as a mesmer. So with a traited focus, there is of course reflects with 4 and 5 but lets ignore that for now. The traited p.warden is now happening 20% more often at a higher base attack than your builds p.warden. Furthermore, with a bit of practice/knowledge of how into the void works, you can start to consistently ball up enemies for your illusionary blenders so that their theoretical 5 targets actually happens. This also buffs your teams AOE DPS. So even with a hybrid between your build and pyro’s, I think it’s safe to say my proposed phantasm build is “MOAR ULTIMATE DEEPS” than yours.

Feedback will also recharge faster and with focus 4/5, you have basically 100% reflections uptime. Then bonus retaliation for when your phants die or regen/vitality is icing on the cake.

“Arrogant ?… i spend 30 minutes defining and argumenting each and every one of my decisions so i can discover and define a glass cannon build…”
30 minutes when some of us are at around 1000h + on our mesmers. Anyone can spend 30 minutes on a build. If you were qualified, you would never have picked halting strike. You failed at creating the ultimate DPS because you don’t even know what all of our traits are capable of.

Link build ?… his build had half my critical strike damage, and considerable lower critical strike chance. I don’t understand how people keep saying their damage is higher, when their damage stats are lower…

If you link me your build we can take a look at the stats…
Also if you somehow manage to get higher damage, with lower stats… isn’t that called a loophole ?… exploit ?… bug ?… OP ?

Sorry i wasn’t able to make it today… had to go out to take care of something, also i keep playing around with this kitten live streaming programs and live streaming channels…
So… much… stuff… to click on… AAAAAAA

So… much… burning…

AndrewSX.3794:

Just saying, now you’re just giving the impression of non-accepting criticism… it’s a 2-page long thread where the whole Mesmer community is explaining you why this build is bad, yet you don’t (or do not want to) see the arguments.

What? Changing parts of the build on the fly to adapt to encounters and situations is one of the few things left in this game to divide bad/average and skilled/good player.

Are you so tunnel-visioned that can’t think about change up things to perform better for a certain part of content? Or do you really think exists a build to “rule the pve all” w/o even need of touching any part of it from a boss to another?
I’m..i’m…baffled, to say the least.

Again, not meaning to be harsh or personal attack, but this is getting a bit ridicolous…

Well… if the “whole” mesmer community explains to me… then i will drop it of course.

Feel free to change what ever you want to fit any and all circumstance, but you call my build bad because it “unchanged” – no weapon change / no utility change (well why not… i can change them on the fly as well) – can’t do what some other build can do by changing. Also… comparing an unchanged on the fly build with the “combined” advantages of a heavily changed build, combined advantages ?…

Yes… my unchanged build doesn’t match the build that keeps changing every 3 seconds… not in utility at least, damage… mmmm… that’s another story.

Damage is what i was going for here in the first place…

So before i drop it… for those who do favor this build, feel free to bring a spare focus and always have feedback on your utility slots in case people ask for it.

Thanks for the feedback.

@ Pyroatheist.9031

You use a staff and a greatsword… you switch to focus sometimes ? Focus and what else ?… Sorry… i just feel like you are combining the benefits for like 4 different builds together. You can’t exchange weapons in combat, neither can you retrait so…
If it’s about changing out of combat… then i’ll take a focus as well… and feedback…

While i will not have… Warden’s Feedback – Focus skills reflect projectiles. Reduces recharge of focus skills by 20%.
and… Temporal Enchanter – Increases the duration of all Glamour skills by 2 seconds.
and… Glamour Master – Glamour skills recharge 20% faster.

I will have about 40% more damage at all times…

At the same time when YOU have these… you lose your healing, and you have 40% lower damage at all times…

You can’t have all of the above, and healing, and the damage… and everything… Since we are talking about weapon switching, not only utility switch… i can do that to…
Between you and me i prefer to have 40% more damage at all times, then to have some very fancy feedbacks… don’t like situational stuff.

You have said so many good things about your build, but that’s like… not just one build. If you switch traits and weapon and utility… that’s another build entirely, if we were playing a game i would say you are cheating.

PS: So… in my build i just take a focus with me, and switch for portal and feedback… now my build doesn’t lack so much support.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Nemesis: I’m not sure why you’re tunnel visioning on feedback. I’m also not sure why you’re tunnel visioning on the warlocks as well. Sometimes I’ll use the staff, sometimes greatsword, sometimes mainhand sword + focus is more appropriate.

Sometimes I’ll use feedback, sometimes I’ll use arcane thievery and signet of inspiration, sometimes I’ll take the daze mantra, or sometimes I’ll take the iDisenchanter.

Sometimes I’ll use my mantra healing, sometimes I won’t. Sometimes I’ll trait for focus reflects, sometimes I’ll trait my glamour cooldowns and durations, sometimes I’ll trait for condition removal on healing, or sometimes I’ll trait for 20% increased phantasm hp.

The point of my build is versatility and team support while maintaining good damage pressure through phantasms. Your build has 0 versatility and 0 team support. I can adapt my build to be perfectly optimal to any situation. Your build goes from sorta high damage to sorta high damage with absolutely no changes. If I wanted pure damage, I’d go for a warrior, not a mesmer, because even your absolute full glass cannon damage build that does NOTHING else pales in comparison to a warrior.

I find it amusing that you tag the builds with things like “40% lower damage”. There’s no way to quantify that. In many situations, my build might do 40% lower damage, but in some it might do more than that. In many MANY fights in this game where projectiles are involved, my build will do far more damage than your build could ever hope to do in its wildest dreams. Can your build do 170k damage to lupicus? Ah, that’s right, it can’t. Can your build continually return upwards of 70k damage every 10 seconds to the spider in TA path up? Ah, that’s right, it can’t. Additionally, can your build do that while at the same time healing its teammates? Ah, that’s right, it can’t.

The issue here is that mesmer provides so much utility that you are ignoring. The mesmer is the class of CAN do. A mesmer can do pretty much anything and everything if you have the right build, traits, and utilities. Your build can do nothing other than damage.

So overall, yes, in some situations where you are just sitting there autoattacking with a greatsword, yes, your build is the “definition of a glass cannon mesmer.” Unfortunately, no-one cares. It’s a poor build, it doesn’t fit into any team composition ever, and is a horrible choice unless you are trying to troll people with greatsword autoattacks in sPvP hotjoin—which is fun, I do it sometimes.

I took you seriously enough to test everything you said with great attention… you seem to be offensive. My build can use feedback as needed as well.

I tunnel vision and tag because i require to see what’s the max damage… if it’s not as max as mine, then how much you lose in favor of what else do you gain.
I don’t lose the feedback, but i do lose the healing and perma regeneration.

When you say sometimes sometimes sometimes, there’s one thing that doesn’t fit… you can’t have all of these at the same time… So they might sound great together, you only use some of them… Like i said… having 60% damage + 60% utility + 60% healing together is only good when you stack, not when you have them one at a time. You would be a jack of all trades, that does nothing right.

Also it is my firm belief that a glass cannon warrior doing his best would not survive in high level fractals to have 70% uptime DPS, but this mesmer would… i would take glass cannon mesmer over glass cannon warrior in high level fractals any day of the week.

I wouldn’t mind continuing this discussion in a friendly manner… but “no one cares” and “your build is just bad because it’s not like mine” need to stay out.

PS: the insane damage you do to lupicus or other encounters doesn’t come from your healing… which is what my build can never do… Feedback it can, it’s a utility not a trait.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Nemesis: The warlocks scale at 10% per unique condition on the target. When I have a necromancer in the party is normally when I will heavily favor the staff, as the condition pressure they put on mobs will boost their damage up into the ranges I was mentioning.

You don’t shatter. This is a phantasm build, not a shatter build. You shatter if absolutely necessary for defense or an interrupt. Other than that, no shatters.

Restorative mantras while using mantra of pain spam is a 2600 aoe heal every 3 seconds. This is the highest rate of healing that any class in the game can produce. Because of the massive base heal amount and the terrible healing power scaling, there is no need or reason to use healing power with that trait.

If you had read what I said in that build guide or in the post in this thread where I discussed it, you would have caught that I make frequent changes to all of my utilities. If decoy is not appropriate, I will remove it. I change my traits and utilities to match the encounter.

So basically you use the warlocks from the staff… and since you don’t have condition damage stat, you auto-attack with the greatsword… You have feedback and you have the 2600 heal every 3 seconds.

Mmm… you got 40% lower damage (in stats even) for 4000 health and the ability to heal 2600 heal every 3 seconds + permanent regeneration for allies.
It’s not every 3 seconds… cause it heals upon activation, and… unless i am missing something, it has an activation time of 2+ seconds, and has 2 charges that need 1 sec each to activate… only after that can you reactivate… so it’s 4+ seconds.

Mmmm… well i do not approve of trying to heal without healing stat, the heal is impressive i would say.

PS: Yeah i got 5 conditions on a mob and i kept using the warlock… it hit for like 5000 something at 113% critical strike chance.

Hexxen.7216:

To the OP:

Also, another reason we are so fast to tell you and sometimes in not so nice ways, what is wrong with the builds is from your titles of your posts. “Ultimate Hybrid” “Defining GC”. You realize how arrogant those titles are right? Especially when the builds you propose aren’t all that “ultimate”

Arrogant ?… i spend 30 minutes defining and argumenting each and every one of my decisions so i can discover and define a glass cannon build…

Ultimate damage hybrid… achieving the perfect balance between condition damage – power damage so that when you switch weapons to perform either condition damage/power damage it is worth it, since the condition damage is as valuable as the power damage… it’s the equivalent. Having 60% of both power damage and condition damage is only worth it if you can stack them on top of each other in some way… otherwise you will be at a potential of 60% of a power damage… few minutes later 60% of a condition damage. You will be useless at both…
Ultimate… is when you have achieved this equilibrium.

I find a lot more arrogant and also i personally dislike these advertising techniques (i use to work in advertising), such as… “uber armageddon protein shake… with real baby tears… at ONLY 9999.9$, get now… limited edition”… Using catchy names to bring audience.
I like to be descriptive… you get exactly what is on the label.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Nemesis: You need to learn the mesmer traits a bit better. 25 points into the inspiration (our main support/healing power/vitality line) is a minor trait that makes our phantasms do 15% more damage. That’s 15% higher damage flat, without relying on power, crit chance, or crit damage. Another trait exists 10 points into domination, 15% damage, and they stack.

You seem to attract the worst type of people in fractal runs…or maybe it’s not the other people, you have to also consider that as well. If all of your fractal runs go poorly, there’s only 1 common factor. In my experience with fractal runs, having a necromancer is fantastic, continual conditions, lots of mob disabling utility, along with making my warlocks hit like trucks (think 8.5k-10k per hit, every 4 seconds…and you think your build does more damage than that?). Having mesmers in a party is also great. Even if they don’t know exactly what to do to optimize their builds and playstyle to each encounter, I can guide them in that regard, and they come out knowing more than they went in, along with contributing to a very smooth and quick fractal run.

Here’s one more thing. Your build isn’t new. It’s not unique. It’s the standard glass cannon mantra nuker that hits like a truck in some very specific situations and does nothing else. It’s been around for a very long time, as putting 30 points into both of the damage trees is something that people did way back at the start of the game. The reason you never see it run is because it sucks.

I’m glad you managed to work up a response, but a little bit annoyed that you still conveniently ignored all of the myriad points I made as to why your build is ineffective.

Edit: You keep mentioning support, survivability, and damage as if they were things that couldn’t possibly fit together in 1 build. Allow me to present my PvE phantasm build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-PvE-Supporting-Phantasm-Build/first

I have been using this build in all pve content (with a couple small exceptions) for upwards of 4 months, as you can tell by the posting date. It has around 20k hp for good passive survivability, as well as just over 2000 armor. It has strong aoe healing (2600 per 3 seconds), can spec for 100% uptime on projectile reflection, or 100% uptime on projectile destruction, can do aoe boon removal, stealing, sharing, aoe condition removal, self condition removal. Has stunbreaks, invulnerabilities, and of course, it has very high damage. My warlocks will hit generally for around 5-6k in a party with no necromancer, and often over 10k in parties with a necromancer. My wardens will spin for 8k damage. Swordsmen will do 5k chunks. My own damage is actually decent, though it doesn’t compare to the damage my phantasms can do.

In this build, you get survivability, damage, and support all in one. Enjoy!

Ok… i did an initial initial test of your build… the phantasmal warlocks at best did a 5k+ critical hit with double the critical strike damage you have in your build. The phantasmal warlocks also… “attacks every 6 seconds with an activation time of 1 second. 4.8 seconds interval via Phantasmal Haste.
Attack range is 900 units.” – Not every 4 seconds.

You also do condition damage in your build to power up your warlocks without having close to no condition damage stat, or… you auto-attack with your greatsword without having the 21% damage boost from mantra traits…

Phantasmal Healing Phantasms grant regeneration to nearby allies… but then you shatter…

Compounding Power 3% more damage for each of your active illusions… but then you shatter…

Restorative Mantras Heal allies when you cast a mantra – Healing: 2,600 + 0.2x Healing Power stat.
The heal is triggered when the mantra is prepared, not when it is activated.
Has a radius of approximately 600 units.
It’s an amazing trait to have… but you don’t have healing power stat for it… you are not maximum in this either…

Since you dislike my matra utilities… you have replaced my mantra utilities with better support. Feedback (which i said can be integrated in my build)… and decoy… which is not a party support utility.

My build is squishy… your build has 4000 more health… mmmm…

This is what i have observed on this build so far…
I will continue testing because as you can see i am taking this seriously.

Noted… even if my build respects the definition of a glass cannon build, there may be some builds out there that are more beneficial to a team then just DPS. Sometimes it is worth it to lose damage in favor of support…

While i do believe my glass cannon build does what it advertises very well… i will hold true to my gaming name and not dismiss other theories when they are presented with reasonable argument.
So… going to give Pyroatheist.9031’s build a try. If it turns out good i’ll even advertise your build as an alternative, and give you all the credit of course… for people who would sacrifice some damage so that they are not so squishy…

ps: whisper me in game sometimes, i’d love to see a “better” mesmer in fractals… and i am not being ironic or mean, i actually want to see what you do and how it helps… maybe that will change my resentment towards mesmers that i have accumulated…
Maybe we can do some fractal runs…

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Nemesis: You need to learn the mesmer traits a bit better. 25 points into the inspiration (our main support/healing power/vitality line) is a minor trait that makes our phantasms do 15% more damage. That’s 15% higher damage flat, without relying on power, crit chance, or crit damage. Another trait exists 10 points into domination, 15% damage, and they stack.

You seem to attract the worst type of people in fractal runs…or maybe it’s not the other people, you have to also consider that as well. If all of your fractal runs go poorly, there’s only 1 common factor. In my experience with fractal runs, having a necromancer is fantastic, continual conditions, lots of mob disabling utility, along with making my warlocks hit like trucks (think 8.5k-10k per hit, every 4 seconds…and you think your build does more damage than that?). Having mesmers in a party is also great. Even if they don’t know exactly what to do to optimize their builds and playstyle to each encounter, I can guide them in that regard, and they come out knowing more than they went in, along with contributing to a very smooth and quick fractal run.

Here’s one more thing. Your build isn’t new. It’s not unique. It’s the standard glass cannon mantra nuker that hits like a truck in some very specific situations and does nothing else. It’s been around for a very long time, as putting 30 points into both of the damage trees is something that people did way back at the start of the game. The reason you never see it run is because it sucks.

Edit: You keep mentioning support, survivability, and damage as if they were things that couldn’t possibly fit together in 1 build. Allow me to present my PvE phantasm build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-PvE-Supporting-Phantasm-Build/first

I have been using this build in all pve content (with a couple small exceptions) for upwards of 4 months, as you can tell by the posting date. It has around 20k hp for good passive survivability, as well as just over 2000 armor. It has strong aoe healing (2600 per 3 seconds), can spec for 100% uptime on projectile reflection, or 100% uptime on projectile destruction, can do aoe boon removal, stealing, sharing, aoe condition removal, self condition removal. Has stunbreaks, invulnerabilities, and of course, it has very high damage. My warlocks will hit generally for around 5-6k in a party with no necromancer, and often over 10k in parties with a necromancer. My wardens will spin for 8k damage. Swordsmen will do 5k chunks. My own damage is actually decent, though it doesn’t compare to the damage my phantasms can do.

In this build, you get survivability, damage, and support all in one. Enjoy!

Haha… that 1 common factor is usually the last man standing. Anyway… i have took into consideration what you said, and i will give this build a try for a comparison. Maybe even do a match-up between the damage numbers of the both of these… when ever i will have the time.

PS: what’s the damage rotation ? I don’t want to do it wrong and then say something without getting the facts right. If… you actually do more damage, or at least the same… then my build needs to be buffed or yours nerfed. Stat wise you have quite… less.

skcamow.3527:

Pyroatheist.9031:

@skcamow: You are right of course, there are a couple situations where FULL glass cannon mesmer is appropriate. Unfortunately, full mantra nuker is not. In CoF p1 especially, you are expected to have feedback to protect the party in several fights, as well as signet of inspiration, to double might stacks and fury duration. Those two things are significantly more useful to the party than a bit more damage from mantras.

Agreed, sorry for the confusion – in PvE I always run a phantasm build, especially in CoF p1. I believe when folks want full berserker/glass there it’s usually shatter or could be a glassy geared phantasm build (though I would never run that). I was more speaking of the PvP aspect for the mantra nuker.

@Nemesis – I did read the theory behind why you created the build. Have you tried to compare the damage you can do with a phantasm build versus the build you posted, in full glass gear? You might be surprised at the phantasm DPS. Then you’d get the utility we’re speaking of with the high DPS. When speaking of “tanky”, I just mean geared with a little more toughness versus full zerker. You can still retain high DPS doing this.

What do you mean by “the phantasm build”… cause in this build i use phantasms, link me and i’ll put it to the test, i have all the gear…

The general rules still apply i think… if you take away power or crit chance or crit damage in favor of toughness or vitality, you can’t possibly get more damage, and if you do… it will get nerfed, or the power side will get buffed, and if not… everyone will start to use it.

That applies to all builds, all classes, all games… you can never have balance if something has it all.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@skcamow: You are right of course, there are a couple situations where FULL glass cannon mesmer is appropriate. Unfortunately, full mantra nuker is not. In CoF p1 especially, you are expected to have feedback to protect the party in several fights, as well as signet of inspiration, to double might stacks and fury duration. Those two things are significantly more useful to the party than a bit more damage from mantras.

@Nemesis: You are not copy-pasting builds, you are copy-pasting build styles. You take something that works for necros and try to apply it to mesmer, and it doesn’t work.

You keep using random bits of anecdotal evidence to support your claims that your mesmer build is the only useful one at high level fractals. Well guess what, I can do that too. There have been a very few parties in high level fractals that haven’t commented on how smooth they have gone because of the utility I bring. There have been very few dungeon runs that have not commented on how easy boss fights were because of the tricks I can do. There have been very few times when I wasn’t the last man standing while in melee range of a boss the entire time. Anecdotal evidence works both ways I’m afraid.

More evidence, however, points to the mesmers you have been partying with as very bad. I happen to enjoy killing tentacles in melee range. I cycle between dodges, sword blocks, and blurred frenzy to avoid all the attacks while dropping it with phantasms and sword attacks. It works very well and quickly as long as you don’t screw up, which I usually don’t.

Shatter mesmers are generally worse in high level pve than phantasm mesmers, simply because of the nature of their damage. Shatters are burst, while phantasms are sustained. This isn’t to say that shatter mesmers can’t do well at high level pve, but it does give them an inherent disadvantage.

Unfortunately, all the things you’ve been mentioning about mesmers going splat and whatnot just ring somewhat hollow in the face of your build. There is no build squishier than yours. Not all bosses are melee range. If bloomhunger hits you with even 1 of his projectiles, you will be downed instantly. If mossman hits you with his bouncing axe, downed instantly. The ice eles in the ice fractal will kill you rapidly with their projectile attacks. You definitely would be useless for breaking seals in cliffside, as those mobs would instakill you. In arah, you’d get 1shot by an elementalist or mage. In CoE, there are loads of things that would instakill you. HotW, nasty icebrood dogs or the spinning guys would instakill you.

You complain about how mesmers die constantly, and then you make the squishiest build possible with very few recourses to escape and survive if things go wrong. You need to take a good hard look at what your build does and how it does it, and completely re-evaluate what you think are the benefits of it.

I’ve also noticed how you’ve conspicuously avoided responding to my posts. I would love to see your responses to my points, but I get the feeling you’re avoiding them for a reason…

I apologize if it may have seemed that i say only my build is the way to go. Far from it… just like with other classes there are various ways and paths to take to play and bring something to the team. If you want to support… great, if you want to do damage… do damage. What i have a problem with is with people that have nothing…

I wouldn’t mind if a glass cannon dies every now and then, if when he is alive he does a lot of damage. I also don’t have a problem with a support build… if he supports. Speaking of support… i was in a fractal once with 3 guardians, we had 0 reflect walls in the uncategorized fractal… You think they had damage ?… noup…

I also said in the beginning of my mesmer hybrid build, that there are a lot of good mesmer builds out there (i’m guessing…) so why 99% of the mesmers out there seem to go splat, have no damage… and utility… mehhh… not that much difference.

I’m not ranting about mesmers as a class… in the same category fall the necromancers as well with their “epidemic build” while they auto-attack with a staff…
From my experience mesmers and necromancers are the worst company to have in fractals…

I wished to help… that’s why i said, either my build or some other well made build… but just get something… and what ever you do don’t give me the “well i do insane damage and support and tank with my shatter build”… then take 2 steps and fall splat.

Last thing… there was this trend a month back… maybe two, where everyone seemed to think that in high level fractals, you either go full glass cannon or you don’t go at all. Well… this is as glassy as you can get. But i do agree… you can play different styles, as long as they are well made… and you don’t invest in something you waste later on.

skcamow.3527:

Nemesis.8593:

In my eyes glass cannon builds are selfish by default… if they had tanking capabilities/support capabilities. Well… then we’ll have it all then, no reason to play anything else.

Which is really the point we’re all trying to make … we do have a tanky support damage dealing monster of a build in the basic phantasm build which can be effective at range, that makes so much more sense to run than a build like this in a PvE or dungeon scenario.

A tanky support can’t deal “monster damage” by default, and if something like this would exist… it will be nerfed, or within one month all PvE teams will be 5 mesmer only… since they have “tanky support monster damage”.

Have you red the story of how i come to start making mesmer builds ?… It’s a few replies upper…

As the tittle suggests… i am looking for 3 berserker necromancers for a Citadel of Flame path 1 fast run.

The objective is to finish the dungeon as fast as possible using the glass cannon necromancer build… and to compare the time with the current record holding class as this particular event: warrior – 5 minutes something.

Requirements:
Gear: full berserker exotic and at least backpiece (maybe even rings) ascended.
Voice chat: skype or mumble
Time: any day of the weak except for tuesday/thirstday from 6PM CET to 9PM CET.
Server: any european server would do

If you want to participate leave your IGN as well as the time and date you would be available.
Depending on the outcome… maybe together we can show that necromancers are not “that bad” in PvE, not even and fast running CoF p1, which seems to be the thing everyone compares PvE to.

skcamow.3527:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Nemesis.8593:

Agony.3542:

A mantra build? Really?
Sorry but this kind of build is really ineffective.
You have no access to any reflection (the thing that makes mesmer so strong in PvE… cough cough). Sure you can get rid of a mantra for it, but you defently can’t get wardens feedback with this build. Also you wont get access to reduced glamour cd (more feedbacks /hooray), feedback on rez, condition remove on heal.
Mesmers are not picked for their direct damage. You rarely see more than one mesmer in a really good group. One is enough, since he already brings a kitten ton of utility.
GS is not a good main weapon choice when it comes to Dungeons. Fotm? Idk, I can imagine that you often have to resort to ranged combat in high level Fractals, but thats not a good enough excuse to make GS your general main weapon.
Mesmers have a lot of surviveability due to blurred frenzy, perma vigor, distrotion shatters and so on. Sword MH has a higher damage output than GS, you are also able to melee most of the Dungeon content if you use your brain.

When you say really ineffective, what are you referring to ? Cause it does seem to do more damage then any other “more effective” support type build.

As i go down and answer all the feedback that i have received, you’ll understand a bit of where i am coming from.

In theory it does more damage. However, no-one cares. You have 0 team utility with his build. In fact, you just have 0 utility at all. The single thig you can possibly do is damage, and your damage still won’t be higher than a phantasm build in some cases, you have almost no access to reflects which will allow you to push your damage far beyond what is commonly possible.

People bring mesmers in parties because they can do good damage while providing reflects, aoe heals, boon stripping, aoe condition removal, boon sharing, aoe regen, and some of the best survivability of any class. Your build has none of that. It has damage. No-one cares about a full damage Mesmer

Generally agreed, but I would say there are certain circumstances where a full zerker glass mesmer is desired and warranted, e.g. CoF p1 and maybe a few others. In those cases, running a mantra nuker build is fine, but this build has to do away with the halting strike trait which is currently worthless. I use one of these two builds in Fay’s build list when I actually run mantra nuker (which isn’t that often): https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/BUILD-MANTRA-NUKER.

But more often than ever not, a phantasm build going 25 into inspiration is arguably the best PvE build you can play for mesmer. I run 10/30/0/25/5. Even with the +250 healing power and vitality, you’re still dealing so much damage from the extra 30% phantasm damage. You have to account for those damage modifiers when comparing damage for damage with the mantra build. I’ve run both builds in numerous non-fractal dungeons and the damage is typically even, if not edged out by the phantasm build. PLUS with the phantasm build I always run null field and feedback, in addition to the warden reflects. You can’t beat that type of damage/utility hybrid and the flexibility to change to other extremely useful inspiration traits when needed.

In WvW/PvP, your build and general mantra nuker builds are ok for specific uses, but are very selfish in nature, decent primarily for 1v1. But if talking about PvE/dungeons, this build is rarely chosen over the other viable mesmer builds out there.

In my eyes glass cannon builds are selfish by default… if they had tanking capabilities/support capabilities. Well… then we’ll have it all then, no reason to play anything else.

Molch.2078:

I think the basic criticism can be summarized as:
You lose too much utility for to little damage.

A “full support” mesmer is still a berserker and traited sth. like 20/20/x/y/z – compared to your build, he does maybe 20% less damage.

Edit: 100% more damage, if he can reflect something

I am willing to put that to the test… you bring your full support “berserker” mesmer, and i bring mine…
We find a nice big fat mob, i’ll get a friend to tank it for us… and we time it.

Well i think that about covers it…

The reason i made this build, the reason i branched out into other classes… mesmer for a change. Is because i’ve had only bad experiences with mesmers in PvE, in high level fractals.

I recall this one event that made me think… “that’s it… mesmer is next”.
Was doing fractals heavily one day, and i stumbled upon a group for fractals 48… it had 1 mesmer 1 thief 1 warrior and 1 guardian…

After we went in… the thief and warrior switched to… mesmers as well. I immediately said… “mesmers ?… 3 ?… really ?… damage will be… bad…”
Of course i got called a noob among other things, nearly got kicked… they bragged about their huge damage in their shatter builds, also about how useful they actually are besides their huge damage.

Believe me when i tell you it was the worst run i have EVER had at high lvl fractals. At one point i just stood still and watch them… in the dredge fractal it was almost like a scene from Spartacus. They were running all over the place with mobs all over them… and when the mobs finally caught up to them, they went splat…

After 3-4 long hours we finally reached the Maw… i took one tentacle, and them 4 players took the closer tentacle. Not only did they started attacking the tentacle sooner then me… i finished my tentacle way faster then they finished theirs.

Then i thought to myself… next time i find a shatter mesmer in my high lvl fractal group, i am going to flail him. Then i thought… how come mesmers do so little damage and are so god kitten squishy… Then i thought… maybe they can do high damage, but they didn’t knew how. Mesmer… that’s what i will go over next…

AndrewSX.3794:

Nemesis, i feel a bit bad to say this but:
copy pasting nec’s way of building do not work with mes.
Hybrid too, had same split of stats as nec hyrbid, with small (not) difference that mes condition dmg is plain useless, when nec’s is optimal in splitting in power/cond dmg his dps. same here, trowing 30 pts in power and prec lines is NOT the way to build for optimal dps on mes. the final 10 pts traits on both lines are complete trash. mantras don’t make any sense.
Stop it.

(didn’t mean to be harsh)

I’m not copy pasting anything lol… the traits are different, trait paths… mechanics, the range at which it plays. The dependence on your phantasms. The further away the mesmer is in his glass cannon form the better, as for the necromancer the further it can stay the better… for dagger 1 spam.

Do you think the genius minds that created the most sophisticated build system i have ever seen in an MMO (and i have seen many MMOs in my time), and it also makes a lot of sense… you think they were wrong when they placed mantras at the end of the two trait paths that clearly give passive bonuses to the power type damage dealing aka glass cannons ?

I figured out what to do with them to make something happen, by what i see here… people think me and the people that made it this way got it wrong.
Others believe mesmers are only useful for support in a team…

While i do respect your opinions, if i am making a glass cannon the way i believe it was designed… using even the things that aren’t used. If you are not happy with the results, why not make a suggestion to ArenaNet… therefor the grandmaster traits would not be “useless”… and mesmer would be looked at as more then just “utility utility utility”.

You were just speaking your mind, you’re not harsh.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Your test of to shatter or not to shatter is missing a few things.
1) You are using gs 1 &2 with the gs phantasm build and weapon swapping AND power spike for the phantasm test. For the shatter test, you just shatter 3 clones without IP and dont attack with your sword at the same time/power spike. Your damage calculations also use a single target situation when shatters are meant to be AOE for mesmers so that shatter dps can be anywhere from 900 to 4500 dps . Seriously, this is about mesmers but try to be less deceiving with your math.

~ made it shorter

1. I wasn’t deceiving, i’ve made two math calculations… for real scenarios, one for single target and a separate one for AoE. I compared 3 illusions shattered with the two alive phantasms which you would get over a period of 10 seconds. You can shatter every 10 seconds, and you can summon two phantasms that attack once every 10 seconds… fair ?

Then i compared shatter 3 illusions on 5 targets vs 1 phantasmal berserker hitting once, cause you can get 1 phantasmal berserker to hit once 5 targets in 10 seconds. I thought that would be fair… Even if the phantasm dies after it hits… you still do reasonable enough damage… taking into consideration that if you want to shatter every 10 seconds you need to go full shatter recharge rate, which would reduce your power type damage in some way.

I have also shown how much just a single duelist does with the same gear and traits (maxed out power wise) on the same target that i have shattered on.

That is my take on this…

2. I agree with you here… but playing in medium/melee range as a mesmer in high level fractals. Oh god… i’ve seen so many of those, it never turns out well… ever.

3. Well yes… it’s buffing my GS auto-attack which added to my up to 3 duelists can stack up to a very nice single target damage, at the safety of 1200 range. You will always be the last one agroed… It’s not only about how high you hit, but also about DPS uptime. If it was only about how high you hit… high level fractals would be 4 berserker warriors + 1 support mesmer.

4. I don’t understand this part…

5. While i agree with this, i still believe that if you want to be a damage dealer as a mesmer, this would be one way of doing it. Otherwise mind as well go full support… trying to make a semi support semi damage power shattering build with melee clones and condition damage stat that you never use… and then wait for your ranged clones to go aaaaall the way to the monsters to explode… in dredge fractal 48… is madness…

If you want a bit of utility it fits in this build, and you can still damage with it at the safety of 1200 range, if you want more utility… make a support build. Don’t make everything into one… otherwise you’ll do sort of nothing.

Scepter auto-attack will also break my phantasms… which is unacceptable for me. Scepter 2 can block quite nicely but vs blurred frenzy… i rather have that, a bit more AoE to a build that otherwise doesn’t have more of it. As for scepter 3… besides the fact it adds confusion… need to test if it really hits for 11k.

Meleeing the bloomhunger at high level fractals is an unnecessary risk in my experience, one mistake from your team members and you’re all gone.

Think that about covers it, thank you for your input.

Hexxen.7216:

Molch.2078:

You already said in your video, that most of the damage comes from your illusions. But you’re skipping Phantasmal Haste (Illusion X). For a phantasm build, this is must have. 7% more damage for iZerker. 22% for iDuelist. If you want damage, try this: PvE Phantasm-Build
10 left points for either inspiration (utility) or domination (if you want to use gs)

Phantasmal Haste is a joke ability. The mob is dead too fast or they get killed too fast especially since I doubt this build would be taking much toughness to make them more survivable. Take 15 points out of illusion and put 25 into inspieration for the three best minor traits mesmers have all of which boost phantasms including a 15% damage bonus and constant regen. This also gives you access to glamour recast down and focus reflect if you want.

To the OP:
This is a glass cannon build. It might not be bad in its own right but the reason you mention that you have not seen something close is because it is a selfish build where Mesmers truly shine from out utility. As for your interrupts, mobs in PvE that you would actually have to bother interrupting all get defiant so this build becomes very swiftly ineffective. Thx for giving the wonderful world of mesmer a try though. ^^

The reason i’ve made this build is because i have over ~ 800 fractals done and i have yet to see a mesmer that was useful. I may call me arrogant or delusional, but trust me… i am neither. I have seen hundreds of mesmers that all seem to share the same… fate.
I look at mesmers, they run around… they put some feedback, then they drop dead…
At lvl 48 fractals… i dodge out of a mob’s way, fear him to heal… mesmer takes agro… i look as the mob’s HP barely moves… then he hits the mesmer, mesmer goes splat.

While feedback is good it is not always the most important part… in high level fractals, stability saves you… for example from knockdown in the Uncategorized Fractal but feedback doesn’t get off CD fast enough to be helpful…. meanwhile interrupting and CCing the channeling arrow attack can prove insanely helpful.
One of the best fractal 48 runs i’ve had in the Uncategorized Fractal was actually 3 necromancers 2 guardians… 2 hybrids and 1 healer necromancer. Once we got to the harpies… we chain CC them with fear and golem charge… it was beautiful.

Molch.2078:

Is this build for PvE?

You focusing the mesmer at something he is not good at. This build is as good as a necromancer, who wants to buff fury to his group and therefore stacks fury duration. It’s simple: He cannot.

Mesmers direct damage is pityfull. GS1 damage is a joke. 2-3k damage? Thats nice … but on a 1.5 second activation time. Warrior hits harder with his riffle, and warrior with a riffle is … not good.

You already said in your video, that most of the damage comes from your illusions. But you’re skipping Phantasmal Haste (Illusion X). For a phantasm build, this is very nice to have. 7% more damage for iZerker. 22% for iDuelist. If you want damage, try this: PvE Phantasm-Build
10 left points for either inspiration (utility) or domination (if you want to use gs)

The reason you want a mesmer is, as already said, utility. Utility, utility and more utility. Feedback. Nullfield. Reflection on focus. You throw away everything good – and for what? 3 × 4% damage? To improve your already poor damage? Not a good trade.

Sorry, but I have to agree. This build is really really bad. But i hope you still want me for your necro CoF run

Of course i’d have you in my CoF group… Constructive criticism is never bad in my book.
So… utility utility utility… well then why don’t we make a utility build then (support build), if mesmer is only useful for utility.

The game was not in such a way that you can be full support and full DPS at the same time.
This is a glass cannon, it does well enough what it has to do.
In the build you have linked me, you lose 100 power and 10% condition duration and 5% extra damage vs inactive foes and a bit of stun/more mantra power…. in favor of 20% faster recharge rate on phantasms which is very good, but at the same time you gain 100% more condition damage which is useless for a glass cannon and 10% shatter recharge rate which you don’t use because you don’t shatter and you gain confusion on shatter… which again you don’t use because you don’t shatter.

I won’t write everything in one spot, but if you read what i will answer the others you may see my point of view.
Anyway… your input has been noted.

Agony.3542:

A mantra build? Really?
Sorry but this kind of build is really ineffective.
You have no access to any reflection (the thing that makes mesmer so strong in PvE… cough cough). Sure you can get rid of a mantra for it, but you defently can’t get wardens feedback with this build. Also you wont get access to reduced glamour cd (more feedbacks /hooray), feedback on rez, condition remove on heal.
Mesmers are not picked for their direct damage. You rarely see more than one mesmer in a really good group. One is enough, since he already brings a kitten ton of utility.
GS is not a good main weapon choice when it comes to Dungeons. Fotm? Idk, I can imagine that you often have to resort to ranged combat in high level Fractals, but thats not a good enough excuse to make GS your general main weapon.
Mesmers have a lot of surviveability due to blurred frenzy, perma vigor, distrotion shatters and so on. Sword MH has a higher damage output than GS, you are also able to melee most of the Dungeon content if you use your brain.

When you say really ineffective, what are you referring to ? Cause it does seem to do more damage then any other “more effective” support type build.

As i go down and answer all the feedback that i have received, you’ll understand a bit of where i am coming from.

Ryuujin.8236:

Interesting. At a glance I thought “eh, gimmick” but on closer inspection and a quick mess about the play-style rather reminds me of a dedicated interrupt ranger in GW1; hanging back at range with with immense pressure, spike capability and interrupts.

My main concern is how useful it’d actually be in a party since it has no reflects, boons, limited AoE or any of the stuff mesmers are most valued for, and is made out of glass. I guess it’s kind’ve “the warrior problem”; there’s no point any other class rolling glass cannon when warrior is so much better at it

Nonetheless I’m gonna give this a run, see how it works out and whether I can incorperate any of the lessons into more balanced builds.

Would you seriously prefer a glass cannon warrior in fractals 48 over this glass cannon mesmer ?

Good day everyone,

I don’t mean to intrude… i have come here from the necromancer forums.
While my main and specialty is still the necromancer, i have made a mesmer build that i wish to share with the mesmer community.

Without further ado…. here it is…
Guild Wars 2 – Defining the glass cannon mesmer

This video includes building up the glass cannon – weapons, stats, items, skills, utilities, traits and last but not least… how do you use the glass cannon after all is well and done…

In this video i have also went over, in great detail the difference between shattering and not shattering in a glass cannon build, with a visible demonstration and math calculations…

FINAL STATS:

~ 3360 Attack
81% Critical strike chance
113% Critical strike damage (with critical damage food)
~ 1839 Armor
~ 16,169 Health
——
+ up to 25% more damage vs targets
+ phantasms that have 100% chance to critical hit
+ all of the above from the safe distance of 1200 range
+ the fact you are more or less the best interrupter in the game, in this build

If i missed anything or if you have any questions feel free to comment here, on in the comment section on youtube.

I hope you enjoy.

Zumi.6384:

daimonos.9831:

Hi Nemesis,
Can you clarify your response to osicat? You wrote,

The reason why i didn’t take Illusionary Persona is because i already have shatter recharge rate reduced a bit more then i need.

But Illusionary Persona does not reduce shatter recharge rate. It “causes the user to count as an illusion for the mesmer’s shatter mechanic. […] This means shatter skills can be used even when no illusions are up.”

So it gives you harder-hitting shatters, and the ability to shatter without clones. Do you still prefer Confusing Combatants? Did you try both?

I’m testing your build out in PvE, and liking it despite Confusion being subpar. I’m balking at the cost of Sigils of Generosity, but do need better condition management. The lack of swiftness is also frustrating. So things to try include:

1. Centaur or Air runes, trading damage for speed
2. Lemongrass or poultry and leek soup, trading confusion duration for condition mitigation. Possibly switch in null field?
3. Cheaper sigils, such as Might or Battle

I’m pretty sure he was referring to the fact that putting points in Illusions reduced the shatter recharge time. The fact that the trait in question was IP was irrelevant. With that said, in my mind IP provides you with a billion times more utility and bang for your buck than Confusing Combatants ever could.

Yeah… cause in the rotation you are also dependent to the clone on dodge. So it’s irrelevant how fast you can shatter…

What i do found out from practical experience, is that people are not use to double invisibility so quickly on top of double block, most times they really lose you… and tend to attack one of your clones.
It almost dies instantly… but all they achieve is add more confusion on them… which i really like. Serves not only as damage, but creates frustration and psychological pressure .

FinalPatriot.8034:

@Nemesis:

I watched your video and to be honest, it looks rather intersting considering how many escapes you have should they become necessary. Right now, I use a GS + Sword/Sword build with half zerker, half valkyrie gear. The direct target damage I can produce is freaking insane but I only have blink/decoy as real means of getting out of a bad situation. Essentially, I have very limited defensive skills and 0 condition damage. Perhaps I’ll give this a try and see how I like it.

Let me know of the results… keep in mind that doing the rotation as correctly as possible is what separates you, from the rest of the mesmers. If possible this rotation puts you in a spot where you are rarely vulnerable, even though you are “squishy”. Squishy but not vulnerable.