Guild Wars 2

Norjena.5172:

Nemesis.8593:

Someone once said, every single video…

“There is no best damage build, there is only best at…”

You have to take into account the type of DPS you want: sustained or burst… and the area: single target or AoE. In general you can go for burst single target (since it has burst AoE incorporated, not as high as sustained AoE over longer fights but hey, it’s burst…) and AoE sustain (since it does sustain single target as well… small but it still counts).

Best at, what? Best at Condition dmg is best at beeing useless in PvE? Check!

Tell me 1, only one singel Trash fight in dungeons/fractals, were mobs are alive long enough to get the Hybrid/Condidmg a chance (only a chance) to deal more dps then 30/25/0/0/15?

Stack in a corner/pull and well+DS1(4/5) is enough. And this is by far more dps then a condimancer can deal, even AoE.
And for Bosses is suxx anyway. I tried your “Hybrid” (and my own version which get´s killed at 10. dec) and it was bad.

CoE subject Alpha (the 3rd), after i stacked the Bleeds up he was at 40%, and the group was Pug…25seconds fight.

With 25stacks, and food and potion 38 sec to kill a risen giant ist no “good dps” it´s mediocore not more, 25secs are possibel with a powerbased build selfbuffed. And it scales much better in gruops.

Sry, u do a lot of work. But to say Hybrid or Conditionmancer is a good or alternative option in pve is a lie (exept little few bosses with high toughness or shields). If some1 wants to play hybrid/zepter just for fun. Then your hybrid is the best way to do this.
But it can´t be onpar with the Zerkbuild.

It’s because of people like that modern gaming is crap in recent years…

There was a time when games were actually balanced… made by hard working companies which struggled to deliver complex and rich environments, skills, classes… compare Neverwinter Nights to Diablo 3…

It has got to this point because gamers can’t be bothered to do anything more complex then to stand around a corner and spam 3 buttons… so why would company bother to make a modern version of Neverwinter Nights, with 3000 spells and 50 classes… when most people will get owned by 3 classes and 6 buttons.

So what do we have now… gear checks and grinds… no story, no complexity no nothing…
Companies laugh at gamers going “we were going to make a really complex game, but seriously… people are way more happy if we give them 1 build, gear check and the ability to stand around the corner and smack their face on the keyboard, they think they are fooling the mobs hahaha” /count money.

So yeah… continue being an elitist in a casual game, with your “optimized build for all situations”, you actually think you are gaming.
Most of us old school gamers actually know what an RPG is, what balance and diversity should be… not this modern day poor excuse for games.

At least Guild Wars tried to change something… but in the end, people would rather stand around the corner and spam, then try anything that would imply actually thinking how to overcome an obstacle…

If the corner thing doesn’t get fixed, i will quit the game… i have seen it for many months now, i just chose not to do it… but it was only a matter of time before everyone did it… and unless fixed it would ruin the game.
Most people like you… don’t see it as something that needs fixing…

And there you have it… Diablo 4: feed your addiction – grind and spam, coming soon…

Someone once said, every single video…

“There is no best damage build, there is only best at…”

You have to take into account the type of DPS you want: sustained or burst… and the area: single target or AoE. In general you can go for burst single target (since it has burst AoE incorporated, not as high as sustained AoE over longer fights but hey, it’s burst…) and AoE sustain (since it does sustain single target as well… small but it still counts).

Stx.4857:

If you are talking about condition Necro’s, we counter Guardian’s and Mesmer’s pretty well.

They are trying to change that though.

We counter “BAD” guardians and mesmers…

Good bunker guardian can’t be killed by 1 player and mesmers can 1 shot necromancers with a combo that puts as in perma daze until 1 shoted (i know… since i invented it), or… the simple MOA + the combo.

PS: To answer your question, we don’t counter anything at the moment… some things we can’t kill alone, some things 1 shot us… but EVERYONE can escape us…

I thought the purpose was to be as annoying as possible…

Perma chill condition build with santinel gear + plague form, also invest in traits and weapons that offer high life force. You’ll be extremely hard to kill, and you can keep chilling…

I don’t see what the point of that is though… being invulnerable with a lack of stability will force enemies to CC you, and ping pong you around when they can, ignore you when they can’t… you solve nothing… except being really really really anoying…

unleashed.8679:

dhuumfire is not strong. Even with 100% cindi duration and 3100 candi damage in WvW it adds 6*1100 damage damage every 10 seconds. that can be cleansed. Or in other words it increases your DPS by 660. For PvP it is even lower with (750*3) 225 DPS. These numbers ignore the fact, that it wont trigger direct after the 10s iCD.

This also ignores the fact, that it can be cleansed so it deals not the full damage. The only thing, that makes dhummfire strong is the fact, that you can’t miss it, because this will not trigger the iCD. But that is the same for every on hit effect.

E: oh and one thing, in WvW most people use -40% condi duration so it is only 3*1100 -> 330DPS there

/slow clap
What more needs be said…

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Nemesis.8593:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Hi Jon!

Thanks for posting. I see where you guys are coming from. However, I’m still scratching my head on that Signet of Spite change.

Can you provide some insight?

I released a new TPvP build that uses it, and as i heard… it spread…

Like an epidemic? :p

I see what you did there…

Thedenofsin.7340:

Hi Jon!

Thanks for posting. I see where you guys are coming from. However, I’m still scratching my head on that Signet of Spite change.

Can you provide some insight?

I released a new TPvP build that uses it, and as i heard… it spread…

JonPeters.5630:

Some internal thoughts on the discussion about Necromancers.

…

We talk about a lot of different versions of this trait including moving to master tier, making it on hit instead of on crit, and reworking the numbers to making it more reliable to use and to counter.

All of this back and forth could upset a lot of balance, but if this moved down to master tier Terror would almost certainly be moving up to grandmaster to accommodate. At least then condition necromancers would be 20/30/x/x/x, which just makes so much more sense. The biggest thing holding that back is the lack of a replacement grandmaster in Spite. We aren’t huge fans of weapon or utility type specific traits at this tier otherwise an improved Axe Training might have a shot. This is the crux of the damage necromancer problem right now, and we will talk about it more next week so any discussion on it here will aid us in those talks.

Death Magic
On the defensive side, the Blood and Soul Reaping necros are starting to feel pretty good. The Death line on the other hand is too focused on minions. From Reanimator, which we have heard over and over feels bad as a minor trait, to the fact that 1/3 of the remaining traits are minion traits, to finally the fact that both grandmaster traits are minion traits.

This line receives a lot of discussion as well, but any proposal we talk about always ends up with more work than we have time to build, much less test.

I hope this helps direct discussion a bit, and thanks for your patience,

Jon

Almost all of the people on this forum can testify to my love for the necromancer class, and the respect i have for ArenaNet. How i still advertise the game and the class…
With that being said… allow me to say that while everything you said is true, you speak as if besides all of these… necromancer can survive focus fire, can chase and escape…
We had all of these because we can not survive focus fire, we can not chase… we can not escape !… our damage was all that we had going for us…

I have an idea… one of your best necromancer players fights vs 2 of my people and see if he doesn’t die instantly. Then you get two of your best guys… and i will bring you one of each class (except necromancer) and i will prove to you that you can’t kill him… he will escape you, at least for a minute or more…

Not to sound rude… but have any of you tried playing high end TPvP ?… If so please show me how can you survive focus fire, and be more alive then dead in those situations, which are… almost all the time…
No aegis, no block, no distortion, no invulnerability, no mist form, no revive, no total condition immunity, no total physical damage immunity… no mobility…All we had was our damage which made us really strong 1v1… really bad at everything else.

Take that away from us… you’ll see way less necromancers in TPvP, and that is because people will eventually get tired of fighting a bit then dying from focus fire… fight a bit, die… fight die / low damage = kill nothing because targets always get away… chase = negative.

I was in the process of making a video review for Guild Wars 2 expressing my support for the game, and then i see this…

With these changes necromancer is UP again… he already was in a weird spot as it was, but now…

Necromancer was/is very strong 1v1 if played right, but you can always get away from him if you want… and instantly dies in 1vX – such a weird meta, i know…
Now, the necromancer might not be strong in 1v1 either… so now he is not good at anything anymore, excellent…

If they nerf the damage, they might put us under a threshold that would simply make us not have enough damage to go over condition removals + heal + immunities at all, so we just keep doing damage… but since it is not enough, it will always be denied and reverted.

GG…

PS: does anyone remember my suggestion for DS 5 skill ?… the soul eater ?
Damage done at the end of a duration, based on other damage done at the end of that duration AND IF CURED return life… (based on damage done)

That would have given us less damage then dhummfire without forcing us into it, would have not taken a condition slot for a long time, dhummfire would have not been necesary at all… since now we would have had ways to reset the fight if the players decide to disengage, and have a bit of support vs multiple.
The catch was that the decision to heal us would have not been ours, the enemy decides if he wants to risk and take more damage and press on OR… cure + heal and in the process healing us as well, and leaving combat.

Would have fixed the long lasting problem that most classes try a 1 shot combo on us, while immune to conditions just for fun… then run away and there’s nothing we can do about it.
Necromancer would still be not mobile, or OP damage… but would have been able to have the fight reseted as well WHEN THE ENEMY decides that.

I remember having almost a thousand people asking for my skill to be implemented… but nooo…

It’s sad that Guild Wars 2 presents such low interest on most livestream platforms, and low interest as a game in general. I’ve seen much worse games that are a lot more popular on the internet…

Good day everyone,

As the tittle suggest i am going to start a series, mainly with TPvP footage (more details can be found inside the video). The idea is to try to boost the interest towards Guild Wars 2 from an Esport perspective, and at the same time maybe increase the interest towards TPvP in general.

GW2: The good, the funny and… WTF ? – season 1 episode 0

This would be the first episode… it’s packed with announcements, ideas and other thoughts that are related to this upcoming series, so i thought i would put them in the pilot episode… so to speak.

If you guys have any ideas, suggestions or anything… that would make this series better, let me know here, or in the comment section on youtube.

Hope you enjoy.

DS skill 6: scream launching opponents away from the caster… the distance and effectiveness is based on the number of enemies around the caster.

enemy search radius: 120
1 enemy: knockdown only
2 enemies: launch
3 enemies: bigger launch
…
CD: 50 seconds

Purpose: survivability against focus fire which is not healing, not mobility, not invulnerability or blocks… (ArenaNet: we want necromancer to have DS, that’s his thing…)

PS: it’s our panic button, literally… “scream”… get it ?
Hopefully when 4 people jump the necromancer, he can push 2 of them away far enough to be even remotely equivalent to a elementalist’s mist form, or a guardian block… or a mesmer distort and so on…

Good day everyone,

Some of you might remember my old SPvP build/guide that i have done many months ago. Since then the game has changed, the necromancer has changed… and my interest for TPvP has increased… so i thought it was time i’ve made a new, updated… perfected guide. So without further ado, i give you…

… and they shall fear my name [TPvP perfected guide – part I: the TPvP conditionmancer]

Do not be alarmed by the size of the video, in the first few moments of it you will encounter a table of content/menu designed for an easy and comfortable viewing experience.

Who ever wishes to get the quick information from it can simply browse through the categories… and those who wish to understand all there is to know about the TPvP conditionmancer can sit back and enjoy…

This time as you can quickly notice, i chose not to present some “final” stats… I chose to take a different approach when dealing with a shifting PvP environment. I chose to build something from the ground up so it will fit the requirements of the PvP meta regardless of what that meta might now… or in the future.
You will always require “enough damage” & “counters to (everyone and everything, or as close to that as possible)” so that you don’t die like a mob… and you get to do your enough damage.

In the last part of the video i’ve also included a customized table that i have made which has all the condition counters (ways to negate our damage) each individual class has… also a suggested course of action based on these facts…
Basically how you must fight vs < insert class here > in order for you to be victorious.

This is something new even for me, so i am really curious on the results… which can be judged not only by the feedback, but also by how helpful it was for each and every one of you.
If i missed anything or if you have any questions feel free to comment here, on in the comment section on youtube.

PS: I know 1-2 things have changed in this last patch, and i released the video a few days ago… i will modify them with annotations, nothing major though…

Bhawb.7408:

As far as every necro is concerned, this trait still doesn’t exist.

Hahahaha… so true… even i never found any use for it, ever…

Come on… of course Greatsword… the build for such a weapon is already there.

GS that does cleave damage and heals based on the conditions on the target… also transfers conditions to targets AoE… and a bit of chilling with cleave attack.

Would open the path for a signet build… finally a tank build that is unlike any of the other tanks in the game… it’s unique since it’s a high HP low mobility melee-er with cleave and high heals (lacks blocks or invulnerabiles) and uses conditions to compensate.

We would use blood magic and curses… and voila… Deathknight FTW ? = hard to kill plague meleer, you know… deathknight ?

/Baws

edit: also… the gear for it is already in the game, so make the GS attacks to not crit, only scale really high based on conditions on target… ohhhhh i’m so good

spoj.9672:

I dont use lich form. I run flesh golem (which I havent bothered to calc the dps for because of how often it dies) or plague if I need the blind/stability. If I get dredge fractal ill use lich for the dredge power suit/ ice elemental though.

I havent tested it but isnt Lich less dps than dagger anyway?

Noup… since it attacks harder then DS 1 and under 1 sec… Correction… it’s 1 sec and a lil bit… still really really fast.

spoj.9672:

Assuming you dont get hit. And my calcs were with the minor 5% more dmg above 50% lifeforce so your dps with lifeblast would drop a bit when you get below 50%. That is admittedly pretty good uptime regardless. Its still less reliable than just learning to dodge and meleeing with dagger (which provides more dps). But I should probably just leave it there, because thats just personal beliefs and preferences again.

That is true… i’m an AoE person in general, i like to fight many mobs at once, own them and feel good about it, dodging them seems a little impossible to me… especially considering my preference in PvE. All i see is the hundreds of dredge descending upon me rofl…

I just realized something… aren’t you overkilling your Lich Form, since you’ll jump over 100% crit chance with it in your build ?

spoj.9672:

Ok so i recalced the DS build with bloodlust and sweet and spicy butternut squash soup (100 power 10 crit dmg).

The dagger dps drops to 10941.3185 dps and life blast goes up to 11286.328 dps (still less than dagger dps on my build). Which considering how little you can consistantly life blast is a pretty poor idea. The build relies way too much on remaining in DS for damage which is far more difficult than it is to maintain melee distance lol.

In the DS build you can do 22 hits in 30 seconds before you run out of LF… that is without Reaper’s Precision… Most bosses die within 1 minute with a high power group, so you only have to come out of DS once, to charge it back up with a very high damage channeling skill + applying further vulnerability on target… not to mention some bosses have adds, which die… which give life force…

PS: coming out of DS into Lich Form FTW

spoj.9672:

Also just worked out Lifeblast dps. On my build you get this:

1 Life blast in 1.3 seconds
Skill Coeff = 1.000, 1.400

base damage = 1472.692, 2061.769
damage with modifiers = 3179.642, 4451.359
average damage = 8307.769, 11630.511

DPS = 6390.592 DPS, 8946.547 DPS (Under 600 units)

Then for the DS build assuming axe training and 100% crit chance (in game its actually capped at something like 99%) you get the following numbers:

base damage = 1472.692, 2061.769
damage with modifiers = 3393.082, 4750.316
average damage = 9602.422, 13443.394

DPS = 7386.478 DPS, 10341.072 DPS (Under 600 units)

Which isnt too bad compared to dagger. You could boost lifeblast up a bit more with bloodlust instead of perception in the DS build but then you lose even more dps when using dagger. Considering DS up time, I still dont regard it as worth using. But i guess I can admit that the DS build isnt too bad.

Exactly… it’s like 5-10% difference at best… and those kind of 5% differences are made by circumstance anyway. I rather give “everyone” something 20% safer with 5%-10% less damage… then give them something with 10% more damage that will put them into the ground 50% of the time…
I’ll have like a million whispers say… but man… we keep dying…

You have no idea how many people said that the conditionmancer build is not tanky enough, and they die…

You know that people despite of what i say… will start “customizing your/my” build… start using valkyre and santinel and mess everything up.
When i made the build i took everything into consideration…

edit: Even i worry that where i go… high fractals and stuff, using your build i’ll die at least 20% more then using mine, so your 10% more damage is actually not going to help me.
I wouldn’t wish this upon casual people that watch videos to learn in the first place…

But yeah… if you can pull it off… by all means, i even applaud you for it.
/bow

spoj.9672:

I worked out dagger dps for 30/10/0/0/30 and it comes out as 11291.482 dps when fully buffed. This is with a crit chance of 88% which means deathly perception is pretty much wasted. Its not far behind the dagger build when fully buffed but its still less and any more than 4 conditions on the dagger build and the gap is increased further.

Also in pugs you arent going to have 88% crit chance. Dagger build has much better crit chance when solo and the potential to increase solo crit chance with fury every 10 seconds. So yeah dagger is pretty clearly better on my build for both pugs and organised groups. In organised groups it would be a complete waste to take deathly perception even on a DS build.

Again you maximize your stats and probabilities via full buffed (best case scenario) and minimize my own.

I would not go into 88% crit chance on a Deathly Perception build… when i need only 50%, this extra 38% critical chance will give me room to have a lot more power then you… so the distance is not that high, taken into consideration that not everyone here has the skill level to play melee and dodge perfectly / never dodge… the actual gameplay again will weaken your playstyle in favor of mine.
Would you actually recommend your playstyle to new players and hope them to survive any dungeon harder then CoF p1 ?… I’ve seen so many people failing CoF p1 even…

You also have to take into consideration that i will have an extra hit advantage each target… since you can’t possibly enter combat AND reach the target in under 1 second, but i can enter combat directly with damage. This is meaningless if you do like 10-20 cycles of damage… but for all mobs that die in under 5 cycles from your damage + team… you lose 1 cycle in favor of my 1 extra hit…

There are a lot of variables to consider…

PS: Still willing to look at footage when you decide to show me some…

WoW… talking about best case scenario…

It will take me a long while to verify everything you have said since i’d like to calculate stuff for myself, even modifiers…
Even if this is the case, it presumes highly strict scenarios in which you never dodge, and people play more or less for you.

I have done many hits of 17000 with DS 1 in my time, so… while we are on the subject of best case scenarios…
I also believe that there may be something amiss here, since the difference between the theoretical damage and real damage i can put out with your build and your items is a bit too large…

I always found out that power type damage is easier calculated by just hitting stuff, condition damage on the other hand is far more forgiving, since you start with the condition damage calculator for DPS at… and you multiply that by targets infected.

Just in case i am doing something wrong, i am still willing/waiting to see you pull off that damage. I wasn’t joking when i said i would convert.

Hopefully is not like… when the planets align… you do one such cycle, has to be consistent… because i don’t hit 17000 with DS 1 every hit, fully buffed stays around 13000 i think, not sure… don’t really run with premade groups.

spoj.9672:

Dagger hits 4 times. Double strike (dagger 1.1) hits 3.7k twice fully buffed roughly. Ill post the math if you want.

Yes yes… was saying that 1st hit (x2) gets counted as 1 cycle hit since it has a chain of 3… even though the first in chain hits (x2).
Regardless… just for the sake of argument… just respeced into your build… signet of spite + blood is power + 10 stacks of vulnerability on target… i hit 1.8k (x2) + 2.5k + 6k… best case scenario when i always crit… and it’s not even in the same cycle…

I would like to see how you hit double me… with the same build and same items, can you post a video or something ? Maybe a few screenshots ?

So… 11.6k DPS = 23k damage on cycle… so you’ll need a 4k (x2) + 6K + 9K…
I so want to see that… if you can show me that i’ll convert myself to your melee ways

spoj.9672:

DS hits about once per 1.3 seconds so depending how hard you hit its dramaticly lower than dagger which hits 4 times in 2 seconds. Dagger auto when full buffed with my build is about 11.6k dps so you would have to hit life blasts over 15k to out dps dagger alone. Ill run the actual numbers of a fully buffed lifeblast later tonight to see if thats possible.

To have 11.6k DPS (damage per second) that means that a dagger 1 cycle would hit for 23.200 damage over 2 seconds (as in 5k 5k 13.2k… good luck with that one)… which is impossible. I have seen 3k 3k 7k from dagger 1 in the best cases… which makes it 13000 damage over 2 seconds, 6500 DPS…
DS 1 can hit around 8000, best cases 12-14000 in 1.3 seconds… so… mmm…

I was following this thread for a while now, chose not to interfere… but some things i simply can’t let slide… sorry.

PS: to even have a chance at such high numbers you need to always crit, which is 80% crit chance before fury + perma fury uptime… which again is impossible stat wise.

Brando.1374:

wow, didnt mean to rustle so many jimmies with my comment.

;)

No worries… i just get called a noob a lot in high end PvP by people who got there only thanks to bugged abilities and have half my skill. They met someone who actually knows how to fight them, then they call that person OP noob… while using bugged abilities.
So… i didn’t took it personally, also didn’t referred to you personally… more to a “group of people” i thought you were representing.

flow.6043:

Nemesis.8593:

Brando.1374:

FinalPatriot.8034:

Well, if it’s a noob build, he sure made me look stupid. For a moment, I was considering deleting a character just to roll a Necro and see what the deal was.

its a noob build in the sense that any necro can run it and be decent with it.

…
So many noob builds that players have to press a few buttons to be decent…

The fact that there are several other builds like that shouldn’t serve as an excuse to keep Dhuumfire.
Also, it doesn’t require any extra clicking, you just auto-proc huge damage, hence “noob build”.

Bhawb.7408:

Its an unbalance-able game mode.

SPvP is a lot simpler than WvW, fewer players, less equipment, no food buffs… it’s a toned down version of what you could do with PvE gear, but just because there are a lot more variables doesn’t mean that you can’t balance it. And it’s kind of a lame approach to hugely overpowered gimmick builds or traits or runes (perplexity) to say: well, it doesn’t matter because it’s all unbalanced anyway.

I highly dislike people that… if they can’t win with their 3 buttons stun lock while invulnerable with a bugged spell that gives them total immunity (OP as kitten), they call you OMG OP, my bugged OPness could not kill you… OP NERF NAO ! That’s why i even answered the guy… Happened so many times…

Burning may be strong in WvW with PvE stats… think about what a one shoting elementalist can do there, cause our burning doesn’t even come close to that…
Must i really post the screenshot with the 22000 damage backstab that was done by a thief again ?… I wish i could put that in my signature.

So… burning may be strong, but there are stronger more broken things at the moment… address that, come back to burning after. There has to be a scale somewhere… little things shouldn’t get fixed before big things… that’s my opinion at least.

edit: also it may be the case that after they fix burning, they remove one shoting elementalists, they reduce 22000 backstab from thief… and all damage is far more forgiving, healers and CCers will dominate the now “endless battle”…
Perhaps is for the better that my glass cannon killed your glass cannon, before your glass cannon one shoted mine…

Brando.1374:

FinalPatriot.8034:

Well, if it’s a noob build, he sure made me look stupid. For a moment, I was considering deleting a character just to roll a Necro and see what the deal was.

its a noob build in the sense that any necro can run it and be decent with it.

You mean like the stun locking warrior with condition immunity noob build, or the perma dodge thief noob build, or the 1 shot elementalist noob build… in which any player can press quickly 5 buttons to one shot someone ?…

Let me see now… oh yes… i remember now, double revive engineer with perma condition immunity under 25% health noob build…
They have to press 1 button at the right time to be GOD.

So many noob builds that players have to press a few buttons to be decent… engineer one is my favorite.

AHAHAHAA !!!… I have predicted this change for months now… ever since i made the first necro healing build… i’ve seen new gear addition, and i predicted this change… i’ve made a new support build in advance… but i never published it…

I was waiting… hoping…
/BAWS

Daecollo.9578:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/How-to-counter-stun-locking-warriors/first#post2494724

You people need to learn to play, really. Necromancer is one of the best professions in the game and I am tired of seeing these threads.

I play a Necromancer in SPVP and I don’t think i’ve ever lost to a Warrior, I lose to thieves, but not Warriors. Sure they can run away, but there is No way a stun locking warrior can do enough damage to me to kill me. Not 1v1 anyways.

You shouldn’t say that… especially since you are not even in top 1000 in TPvP. There are better PvP necromancers out there then the both of us and there are much better warriors out there then you have seen yet…

hyman.7526:

Drawing Guy.3701:

Or we could just say Berserker Stance is a broken skill that auto-counters necro until they fix it.

As for the stuns, kiting and dodging has always been the big counter against warriors due to their move predictability. Unfortunately as a class with the least access to vigor and no traits that help how often you can dodge, that makes it tougher for necros to do. However you do have a skill combo that works pretty well – Well of Power (pun intended). It’s a 5 second counter to stun warrior builds as you can’t be knocked down or stunned in it on top of also being a stun break. Use Blood is Power to give yourself that troublesome buff of vigor so you can now dodge more often once that Well wears out. If you can’t bring the fight in your favor with the well and vigor against a warrior, then he’s the better player.

And if you’re a power necro: Lich Form. Heck, it’s not bad on a condition necro either as it’ll still put him on the defensive with damage that’s still respectable and 5 jagged horrors that can lay on bleeds… I just wouldn’t normally slot this on a condition necro unless you’re having serious issues with a CC enemy.

Plague Form is ok – but it’s only an OS defensive button as you’re not going to be killing anything in it. Beautiful for getting past a zerg into a keep. Could also be used as a respite for cooldowns (toughness + vit + blinds makes it a tanky form), but your DS is better for that.

So are you SOL against stun warriors? Hardly. It’s just that you have to build against them, or they WILL roflstomp you. Berserker Stance is the real breaker, and once they fix that, I’d consider stun warriors fair fight.

Hahahahaha, have you even played a warrior?

Any decently played/specced warrior will never lose to a necro.

Well of power/blood is power combo? It just prolongs the battle for the warrior for 5 seconds. They just GS out of combat with their mobility for 5 seconds. You cant get away, you cant catch them, necros are just sloths at speed. Same goes for lich form and plague, they will just wait it out with their insane mobility.

Most stun warriors also spec 20 into defense for cleansing ire and dogged march. A combination of this and the greatsword removes any chance of you even trying to kite them, regardless of the two lackluster teleports necro have (spec walk and wurm). When the warrior stuns you, and they will, they remove 1-3 conditions and stuns you for 3.5 seconds with mace. The burst comes after with the GS which will do anywhere from 10k-16k hp depending on the warriors skill.

As for utilities, warriors can typically run zerker stance, signet of stamina, balanced stance, or another stun utility.

Most warriors also use a mace/shield combo. If you manage to remove their stability, they will just bunker with defense mode. shield 5 and in case of emergencies, swap to GS and create space until their CD is up again.

You will never kill a decent warrior, you may beat (or maybe kill) low skilled warriors, but most will just run away with GS and come back at you again.

Btw, I have a warrior too and necros are just free kills.

Edit: oh i forgot to mention runes, if they run melandru or lyssa you are even more out of luck.

Exactly what i said…

flow.6043:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Pretend you commit suicide jumping from cliff, and when warrior follow you – activate spectral walk

lol there you have it, the counter to stun warriors is to make them jump off a cliff xD

Seriously though, usually a fight against stun warriors goes like this:
First you lay some conditions on them, when they feel you’ve exhausted a good amount of skills on that: Berserker Stance. Followed up by a huge stun sequence.
So during that time you won’t be able to defend yourself at all. You can’t fear them away, you can’t blind or weaken them… you just have to get through those 8 seconds without taking too much damage and blowing any of your skills in panic.
What you need to do in preperation for that is:
Slot Spectral Armor, have a 50-100% full lf pool, don’t use any skills with 30+sec cd before they enter their op-mode. Then after they land the first stun, activate Spectral Armor and go into Death Shroud… and just stop attacking, even save up your endurance a little for later.
When his Berserker stance is over, you have to land a gigantic burst yourself to turn the pressure back on him, also kite and dodge like a baws.

Overall, you have to accept the fact that stun warriors just are a good counter to necros.

Exactly what flow said… but there is a problem with that as well.
Most medium-skill warriors would kill a medium skill necromancer with that combo… you have to be high skill to survive… but once you are high skilled you can take out that warrior because you have outskilled him.

Here comes the problem though… really skilled warriors that don’t automatically assume the necromancer is a free kill (the warriors in top 500 on the leaderboards), they do that combo as well… but they save either immunity, or their dodges or their block all attacks + some cleanses for once they are done…
They know that if they don’t win with OP mode on, they are vulnerable… and the skilled necromancer might counter… so what they do they put block up… run away, dodge twice and get into loss if possible or find a team member. By that time their OP-mode is almost off of CD… and here we go again, you have done nothing…

The everlasting problem… If i am good, i get a chance to not die now… so i can not die later…
I wish they would have given us what i suggested for DS 5, instead of torment… my suggestion was better.

First hybrid build i’ve made got 100.000 views on youtube, updated version of it got 60.000 views. Judging by the feedback from those views i would say people use it with great satisfaction…

It’s one thing if i say it’s good… it’s another if many say it’s good…
Even so… the playstyle required for the actual build might not be to your liking. Try it out knowing that is a good build, and see if you like it… if it’s for you.

spoj.9672:

Your essentually saying you want it to be equally rewarding for clearing the dungeon 5 times slower. If healing builds and tank builds become required its back to a trinity game which is against the devs original design. Despite many people trying to build trinity roles a good proportion are happy with no trinity. And although they would prefer a bit more variety they dont want clear roles which is what you guys seem to be saying. DPS is required no matter what, you cant kill things if you dont have dps. So to make pve better the dps roles should just have other layers. Dps and cc, dps and support, dps and buff for example (for the meta). Which is actually how it already is in some regards, just not obvious enough because boss mechanics are a joke at the moment. Casual players will always play sub optimal builds, so theres no point trying to change that.

Well… i seem to recall you saying my “AoE DPS support condition build” is a bad idea, since you don’t need “DPS-support”.
That’s exactly what i keep preaching… condi-AoE-DPS-support, power-singletarget – DPS – debuffer, reflecting (great damage upon reflect) – healer… and so on…

The builds are there… i’ve made some of them, now give us the PvE where to use it…

spoj.9672:

Nemesis.8593:

So… it’s… power, precision, critical strike damage + healing power, toughness, vitality (for support heal / support tank) + condition duration (for max CC weakness + chilling).
Where do you fit them all ?
Most people when you say support they go “aaaaaa… might stacks.. sureeee we have that”. That is not support…

CoF P1 never needed healing, chilling, weakness or anything… you all stand in one corner… spam skills with time warp for 100% DPS uptime on top of high power type damage from glass cannons that never got punished for being glassy at 100% DPS uptime… = PvE design flaw.

Support does not equal tanks and healers. GW2 isnt a trinity game. Support comes in the form of boons, blinds, aegis and projectile defense (damage avoidance). Glass builds are punished very easily if attacks arent avoided properly and mitigated or the dps is lacking because someone isnt pulling their weight. CoF p1 is the only dungeon where you dont need to dodge anything. There is a design flaw in pve but its not for the reasons you stated. The flaw is that condition damage is sub par compared to direct damage. And that mechanics are far too simple at the moment. Skilled players will always find ways to trivalise content as fast as possible. Forcing people to start taking toughness, vitality and healing power is not good design either.

Well they need to reinvent the build system in that case, restructure the entire game… boons, damage types, everything… just so you are not forced to bring a healer or a tank… if you break away from the holy trinity that’s fine, but if you really want to not use the holy trinity aka use only the damage side of the holy trinity, then… you’ll have a damage game… build + gear check for damage = Diablo 3 ?…
I hate Diablo 3…

You either bring the PvE to the build system, or you bring the build system to the PvE.

I thought it’s wiser and easier to make the PvE after the already balanced (as a general concept) build system.
You think they should… scrap it ?…

That’s something i don’t think we’ll ever see…

PS: Support is not just damage avoidance, it’s damage compensation… what ever it takes so that the damage is done…
Damage kills mobs therefor challenge = can’t do damage therefor bring support to maintain 100% DPS uptime so that the mobs die.
What ever it takes so that the damage dealers have 100% DPS uptime… boons, buffs, heals, tanking…

spoj.9672:

Nemesis you talk as if zerker groups dont use support when infact they do but they dont give anything up to do it. Also the bleed cap is a design limitation not a choice the devs made. Even without a cap there would still be a power meta for many fights due to build up time of conditions. And other classes do plenty of sustained direct damage aoe. Necro has plenty of both condi and direct aoe. We just have better sustained aoe on our condi weapons and utilities. Nothing beats the aoe eles can put out and thats purely direct damage.

So… it’s… power, precision, critical strike damage + healing power, toughness, vitality (for support heal / support tank) + condition duration (for max CC weakness + chilling).
Where do you fit them all ?
Most people when you say support they go “aaaaaa… might stacks.. sureeee we have that”. That is not support…

CoF P1 never needed healing, chilling, weakness or anything… you all stand in one corner… spam skills with time warp for 100% DPS uptime on top of high power type damage from glass cannons that never got punished for being glassy at 100% DPS uptime… = PvE design flaw.

Good day everyone, i got a message that i should share some ideas in this thread.

Just want to say that condition damage scales not only on 1 stat – condition damage stat, but also on condition/bleeding duration… so two stats (3rd stat is free for a reason).

Secondly (the reason), going for pure condition damage builds for PvE is a flawed thought process. You don’t just do condition damage in a condition damage build… let me start at the beginning…

Power type damage – condition type damage… how to fit these in a game and make them equivalent without being the same thing.
Power type damage seems something close, immediate… high risk high reward… well then… we’re going to make it dependent on 3 stats so you are forced glassy, and we’re going to give it limited AoE so it’s easier to play it… and at the same time we leave the AoE for the conditions…

Why ?… well they take a while to stack up, a lot of mobs take a while to gather… seems like a good idea so far. Ok… we need to put a cap on bleeding stacks… why is that ?…
Well… 1 warrior doing 5000 DPS = 1 warrior doing 5000 DPS (single target OR AoE), 2 warriors doing 5000 DPS = 10000 DPS (single target OR AoE)…
VS
1 necromancer doing 3000 DPS (single target) / 15000 DPS (AoE), 2 necromancers doing 6000 DPS (single target) / 30000 DPS (AoE)… x2 !!!! (2 epidemics… not one)

Power type damage that comes together increases by addition… condition damage that comes together increases exponentially (without a bleeding cap)
My point is that without a bleeding cap, power type damage would be ignored completely since 5 necromancers could easily stack 60 stacks of bleeding together… x5 epidemics… that would instantly kill everything and everyone in the radios, and would overthrow even power type damage for single target. Would literally bully it out…

So… what do you do then ?… We know that condition necromancers have an easy time keeping up with AoEs because epidemic can spread all conditions regardless if the necro was the source of the conditions… so he has his AoE DPS uptime as long as he presses epidemic every 12 seconds.
So… he has a lot of free time… he has to do something with that free time…
Here is where the 3rd free stat comes in…

So far necromancer isn’t an overkill for AoE because of the bleeding cap, and didn’t pushed power type damage off of single target, so it is required… the single target power type damage needs to be there. But… the single target high power type damage requires 3 stats to function… therefor is glassy…

How about while nailing the epidemic (for max AoE DPS uptime), you provide some support… Why ?… single target power type damage, the glassy ones… might not have DPS uptime because they are close… and glassy…

Every second more you offer the glass cannons near their target, is another 1 second more of DPS uptime you give to the group.

… and there you have it, two damage types… that function together and complete each other.

Now… the problem is, PvE is flawed… the build system and what it stands for is genius… but PvE is not properly designed, too simplistic… too… forgiving… therefor people could do things like CoF p1 fast runs which don’t need support to have 100% DPS uptime as glass cannons… and there you have it, the perfect idea… ruined…

~ the end.

Lingering Curse.

Afya.5842:

Nemesis.8593:

Bweaty.9187:

Don’t forget your 40k isn’t a single target, that’s just per target ;-P

LFG let’s you build your own group, so were going to be bottom of the barrel.

Even damage aside, I personally think were much worse off since the balance patch.
Putrid Mark no longer removes condi from allie (About our most useful group help), the rework of DS stops use using it as a block, so 30sec+ we have to eat a non-avoidable attack other class’s block/invul/dodge with that extra energy from Vigor.

Nemesis, as always love that accent and the time/effort you put into necro community.
Excluding reduced condition stuff on champs, stacking time to get damage rolling.
The biggest prob is still, group condi stack cap. Taking 4 power built is good, taking 4 condi built is bad. Simply because as soon as you hit the stack cap, you don’t do more damage, just push each others condi’s off.
Then the stats are so tight, pickup some power, so you can hit the many things that don’t take conditions (Turrets/Doors/etc). It’s at the cost of any defensive stats, or precision. Pre loss is not only dam loss from power crits, but less bleed stacks on crit.
So it’s give up all defense stats, or be behind par on a non-hybrid.
As necro’s behind with the DS change, that’s extra dangerous.

Can it be done, yeh.
The cost tho, group has to be built, to 2 condi players max. Then the necro has to be super good to not quite keep up with a bad/average war, Or other class’s that bring lots more support/group help.

I know what my default choice would be in LFG picking random people I’ve never met before…

---

On the flipside tho, I do notice it’s usually the zerker war, that died 2 sec into combat, taking a dirt nap, telling the others, they doing it wrong, and to reset the fight as they can’t do it without them. ;-P

Well here’s the thing… i don’t know if you saw my conditionmancer video, in which i demonstrate how 2 necromancers can melt pack after pack of mobs in fractals 48… *the mobs melted so fast i didn’t even get a chance to stack properly. *

You just mentioned one of the problems. Trash mobs die so fast from all the damage sources not just conditions, by the time you properly stack enough to epidemic they are about to die already. One or two zerker war in the group is already enough to produce that result. And lets face it, zerker wars are everywhere. And if the group can’t melt trash mobs in seconds, the group is seriously lacking dps and will usually have problems later on. That is from my experience.

In my video i had no warriors… had an engineer with flamethrower, berserker elementalist, 2 necromancers and a bunker guardian…
… and trash mobs don’t die that fast at fractals 48… we made them die so fast, even the people in the team couldn’t believe how fast mobs melt.
Watch the video and see for yourself…

Bweaty.9187:

Don’t forget your 40k isn’t a single target, that’s just per target ;-P

LFG let’s you build your own group, so were going to be bottom of the barrel.

Even damage aside, I personally think were much worse off since the balance patch.
Putrid Mark no longer removes condi from allie (About our most useful group help), the rework of DS stops use using it as a block, so 30sec+ we have to eat a non-avoidable attack other class’s block/invul/dodge with that extra energy from Vigor.

Nemesis, as always love that accent and the time/effort you put into necro community.
Excluding reduced condition stuff on champs, stacking time to get damage rolling.
The biggest prob is still, group condi stack cap. Taking 4 power built is good, taking 4 condi built is bad. Simply because as soon as you hit the stack cap, you don’t do more damage, just push each others condi’s off.
Then the stats are so tight, pickup some power, so you can hit the many things that don’t take conditions (Turrets/Doors/etc). It’s at the cost of any defensive stats, or precision. Pre loss is not only dam loss from power crits, but less bleed stacks on crit.
So it’s give up all defense stats, or be behind par on a non-hybrid.
As necro’s behind with the DS change, that’s extra dangerous.

Can it be done, yeh.
The cost tho, group has to be built, to 2 condi players max. Then the necro has to be super good to not quite keep up with a bad/average war, Or other class’s that bring lots more support/group help.

I know what my default choice would be in LFG picking random people I’ve never met before…

---

On the flipside tho, I do notice it’s usually the zerker war, that died 2 sec into combat, taking a dirt nap, telling the others, they doing it wrong, and to reset the fight as they can’t do it without them. ;-P

Well here’s the thing… i don’t know if you saw my conditionmancer video, in which i demonstrate how 2 necromancers can melt pack after pack of mobs in fractals 48… the mobs melted so fast i didn’t even get a chance to stack properly.

Two condition necromancers in a group are not only max you should have, it is also the “enough AoE DPS” mark… so if you put it like this… then it’s a lot better isn’t it ?

Condition damage necromancers do more AoE damage then any berserker warriors, and that fact i have demonstrated with math… and it remains valid until someone shows me a warrior does more then ~ 30.000 DPS on 3 targets on average…
If you can show me that i will agree that berserker warrior does more AoE damage then condition necromancer.

Secondly… while maxing out condition players is bad, and maxing out power build players is not that bad… it doesn’t mean you should do it… even people that say you should don’t use 4 warriors 1 mesmer full berserker in fractals 48… do you know why ?…
Because they would get crushed every 10 steps… no matter what they say, they are still hypocrites. Yes… i said it… ohh… i’m sorry, you are not… ok go 4 berserker warriors 1 berserker mesmers in fractals 48… good luck. (not you… was just saying in general).

Heartlust.6140:

Unfortunately, we are outclassed in every way when it comes to PvE content such as dungeons or fractals. Why take a necro when a single warrior by himself can do about 20k aoe with a single skill? Take three of them!

Perhaps you should see the math calculations done for the conditionmancer, in my conditionmancer video…
There’s also a demonstration of what 2 necromancers can do when it comes to AoE, fractals 48 of course…

flow.6043:

Ha! Mad King… wise choice
You didn’t explain a lot about those runes though, except “it attacks players…” and that you got up to 5 bleed stacks with Barbed Precision.

Here’s some more info:
The 6th bonus on them triggers an aoe version of the Ranger’s Hunter’s Call, which does 16 attacks per target. With your 48% crit chance it will crit 8 times, 66% of that =5. So you will do 5 stacks with Barbed on average every time, that’s nothing special.
However, you could amp up that bleed burst if you go: Golem Charge -> Death Shroud + Life Transfer (9xdmg). With this combo you will do 25 attacks with 70% crit chance because of Furious Demise. Or you could change Foot in the Grave for Deathly Perception, which would make Life Transfer + Hunter’s Call do 25 critical hits = 16x Barbed Precision procs.

People will stick to my damage rotation… and realize these facts on their own. Like you saw i took a different approach for PvP guides. It’s more important to satisfy the terms of battle then the actual numbers.
For example i could show with math that i do 1 million DPS, but if the condition of the battle is that you require 1.1 million DPS that’s still too short.

I said so many times “if you have enough damage… you can then focus on…”, what ever that “enough” is.
While i “focused on…” in the video i showcased that i do have enough damage with about 50-70-idkhowmany 1v1/2/3s. That doesn’t mean i have X damage, that doesn’t mean i have a lot of damage… that means i have “enough” damage, otherwise i wouldn’t have killed anyone.

It’s… sort of a teaching tactic… took me a while to set this up, trust me…

PS: I would have still showcased that, instead of just saying that it stacks about 5 stacks in AoE… but 1 hour and a half long video it’s a bit too much.

Good day everyone,

I’ve been meaning to post this video here for a some time now, just never got around to it. I know many people have asked me for an updated version of the “terrormancer” as you call it. So without further ado…

Guild Wars 2 – World vs World guide part I: the PvP conditionmancer

Do not be alarmed by the size of the video, in the first few moments of it you will encounter a table of content/menu designed for an easy and comfortable viewing experience.
Who ever wishes to get the quick information from it can simply browse through the categories… and those who wish to understand all there is to know about the PvP conditionmancer can sit back and enjoy…

In this video i took a different approach to build creation… I’ve went way out of my way in order to create a guide in which you learn how to make your own WvW builds, based on certain principles that can be observed in the PvP and WvW environments.
Of course i also added my own version of the WvW build (the updated terrormancer) as a conclusion/result of simply satisfying all the conditions that needed to be satisfied in order for you to truly “own” in a WvW environment.

FINAL STATS:

48% Critical Strike Chance
1734 Condition Damage
50% Condition Duration / 65% Bleeding Duration
100% Fear duration
2784 Armor
19,658 Health
30%+ LifeForce Pool
————
+ the capability to fight multiple opponents at the same time
+ the ability to sustain burst-stacking bleeds in AoE
+ the ability to survive focus fire

This new way of doing things, while it is a great effort… has brought me a “burst” of positive feedback in the day since i uploaded the video… so i really hope you guys enjoy as well.
If i missed anything or if you have any questions feel free to comment here, on in the comment section on youtube.

PS: I’ve already discussed these facts with some people in the comment section, i know i have let some things out, i know i have oversimplified some aspects of WvW…
As i stated… this is more of a base to start on, a correct approach to WvW and WvW build crafting, a good starting point…
Part II of this guide is on it’s way… and part III will contain all the advance tactics aimed at those people who have already mastered the first two parts.

I hope you enjoy

Luke.4562:

I don’t agree with the most of people claiming the GS as a necromancer weapon, it’s another design flaw. (Necromancer isn’t a kittening Death Knight, exorcize your mind corrupted by WoW).
At least it shouldn’t be used for meleeing, but as a caster weapon, a catalyst.

I agree with the torch (just with the prerequisite of having a spectral/evil look) and somehow with a one-handed sword having ranged spells, so not used for melee attacks.
I also totally agree with the idea of making a weapon working together with the Minion thematic, both to summon or to support them.
Do not forget we also need weapons working together with Wells, Marks and Death Shroud. We need more Synergy.

Greatsword on caster class was a introduced to me first back in 2000something, in the gold old days of Gothic I… which was one of the best initial RPGs of all times.

How i miss my necromancer with Uriziel 2h weapon… those were the days…

So yeah… Deathknight, giv NAOOOO !

Greatsword… moving towards the deathknight playstyle… like staff only made for damage, chilling – torment – maybe burning every 3rd auto-attack, life force generation and Lupicus-like shadowstep towards a location (not a target).

Fun ideas… don’t think they are balanced though… but yeah.

If in doing so they give us a “counter” to insane mobility classes… i would be so happy about it. Finally it’s going to be a skill vs skill game… not a “i kill you so fast you can’t escape… oh… you just did, and now there’s nothing i can do about it.”

I want a system so balanced that every one of the 200 possible events has an equal and opposite counter… yeah that’s impossible haha, nah… i just want to be faced less with impossible odds.
I guess so do people that complain about the necromancer…

What i am saying though… this is why i even get into arguments. People complain they can’t kill necromancers anymore, that they get killed by the necromancers. The i come in and say… but man even if you can’t kill me you can always escape me and go be useful somewhere else, which i can never do. You can also focus fire me at any time… i can never focus fire you.
Then people say… yeah but we are forced to play like this… then i come and say… even so, your “forced way” is a lot more effective then our way. We actually have no way to be that effective… to survive focus fire and go be useful somewhere else, to always leave combat and go and help somewhere else.
It’s a very… ugly meta at the moment, and even if the necromancer looks OP on paper, in reality it’s not… even if we could 1v3 people in TPvP we would still lose because there is no counter to high mobility anti-conditions as a necromancer… in the end you always lose.
So… stop asking for necromancer nerf, start asking for real balance…

We all want more balance in the end.

If i say “again with the load of crap” people are going to jump me.
I recently got back into the country, and i decided to rest for 1 day after my journey… logged in the second day…

Did some solo Q… and i had 2 extra necromancers with me, and apparently they had 2-3 anti-condition builds on their 2 rangers 1 guardian…
Were were in spirit watch… the guardian took the orb, and me and the other 2 necromancers unleashed everything we had on the guardian. He almost instantly died if it weren’t for 2 rangers appearing… we continued to give it all on the guardian since the rangers weren’t doing much damage (2 spirit rangers), yet the guardian’s HP was going from 100% to 95% to 100% to 95% with the speed of light.
We placed every single fear every single CC… everything… and the guardian took all that and carried us from the orb location in the middle, all the way to the far point… we could not kill him, we couldn’t bring him under half HP even… we did kill the rangers about half way, since they were focusing on keeping the guardian alive and not so much on fighting us… so we i said “switch” and targeted 1 ranger, he wasn’t prepared.

Suffice to say that we were powerless against anti-condition builds… we still are…
There are classes with builds that you can never win with conditions, ever… simply put “all highly mobile anti-condition builds in the hands of a skilled player” guarantee a win for that player or a draw, never a defeat.

They remove everything you can possibly add for about 10 seconds, then they try to kill you while being chain CCed without access to stability… then they leave combat, there’s nothing you can do about it…
But hey… maybe you guys can teach me how to kill people with total condition immunity / damage immunity… how to survive 4 chain stun… and how to fly after classes that can do a triple dash.

Perhaps i am just a noob…

With that being said, i don’t think ArenaNet will bash conditions into the ground… they are moving the game in a very good direction, i don’t think they are stupid. Everything they say gets interpreted very… strongly… by the community.
I believe they will introduce what i call “the middleman” so if you meet a class with a certain build X, and you have build Y it’s not automatically a loss.

So if they mess with conditions across the board or even just for the necromancer, i believe they will give us something in return… so some opponents don’t get put into the ground by us, and we don’t always fight on the enemy’s terms… then run after the enemy like kittens when ever the enemy decides “ok… i’m not winning because i suck, time to go byebye”.

Lopez.7369:

Whether I’m “spoiled” or not, the point is that in many of the game’s challenging fights, AOE takes a secondary role. There’s really no reason to sacrifice a bunch of great single-target damage just because AOE can kind of make up for it, especially when the sacrifice is being made for a bunch of self-healing that’s completely unnecessary unless the necromancer is playing poorly.

You are not the only one in the team mate… i would say that fractals 48 would go a lot faster, smoother, safer and more enjoyable if you cover all basis…

You need single target DPS, you need AoE DPS and you need a bit of proper tanking or proper support to ensure DPS uptime on both fronts…
It’s better to finish fractals 48 in 40 minutes… then to get to the end boss in 30 minutes and stay at it for another 20 minutes… or the other way around, barely get to the end boss with like 20 wipes and doing single target DPS on 2342342 mobs… just to reach the end boss and one shot him…

These values ARE exaggerated this time just to prove a point…

Lopez.7369:

…

I also think Nemesis is slightly undervaluing power in the video. It’s obviously not the ideal stat for condition necromancers, but the 200 power he’s not picking up is about 15 percent less direct damage. That’s not huge because of how poorly scepter and dagger scale with power, but it does make an impact.

I’m not trying to belittle or speak down to anyone here, but most of PvE is a math problem. In the case of this video, it unfortunately gets the math problem wrong. Some of the concepts Nemesis discusses, such as cleverly using Epidemic, are good and helpful, but a lot of the video is frankly misleading and mathematically unfounded.

Seriously now… i do a sustained DPS of about 30000 on 6 targets in a good scenario, and 200 power is going to increase my direct damage by 15% ?… What direct damage ?

Fear has a 20 second CD and lasts 3 second, it can not be counted towards “sustained DPS” and even if it is it would do about 1400 damage x 3 every 20 seconds, that is like… another 4200 damage ?… When you look at how much you do on AoE those numbers seem laughable… 900 DPS from burning on single target…

Mathematically unfounded… i have demonstrated everything that i have said, i also used the condition damage calculator that Hazno made (and he works with ArenaNet… and i already checked if the calculator is actually accurate, and it is)… then i use a normal calculator to multiply those values as required.

So unless you tell me that in a proper team composition it’s impossible to have 25 stacks of bleeding on a target, burning, poison, around 5 stacks of confusion and some torment every now and then… then my math is not flawed…

I do not understand why you push so hard to force the conditionmancer shine in single target DPS, when he can shine so easily in AoE and help others do higher single target DPS… much higher then you could ever do…

There’s a reason CoF p1 fast runs were not done with 4 condition necromancers and 1 mesmer… there’s also a reason why heavy AoE required fractals… in fact all fractals are not tackled with 5 glass cannon thieves…
I also believe that ArenaNet had planned that the build system would generate builds for various locations and scenarios in the PvE world… otherwise they should have just made us all power build 3 buttons GG.

You dismiss my video and math with “frankly misleading and mathematically unfounded”… you don’t really do that to someone’s work unless you are trolling. You don’t just come and say “well that’s not good cause… you know”.

The passive healing you gain in some cases is actually greater then your normal healing from consume conditions… but overall it’s almost as if you had 2x consume conditions healing value. I would not dismiss that lightly…

I also took the time to add your burning and 25 stacks of bleeding and fear damage together… and even if you somehow manage to get 6k sustained DPS single target, which is sort of impossible… (because fear is not permanent) it’s still lower then what a power build would do…
Fear is not something that goes into the category of DPS… it’s a 3 second DOT every 20 seconds… that’s really low DPS uptime, for something to enter the sustained DPS calculations it has to be at least half the time up, and it’s not…

Oh god if i ever see some necromancer trying to do a CoF p1 fast run with “but i do fear… i = best DPS” i am going to kick him so hard his internet connection will go down.

I already said all of these in a my previous answer. So… this is going to be my last answer… i take the time to post actual facts calculate by condition damage calculator and i get “frankly misleading and mathematically unfounded”.

Seriously now…

I never assumed burning is useless in a group setting, i assumed that burning does 900 DPS on single target and about 6x 900 DPS on AoE… i also assumed that i can apply burning aka 5x 900 DPS on AoE without applying the burning myself…

I also assumed that i can do in AoE confusion, burning, torment, bleeding… any and all conditions without me being the source of them, while they still use my own condition damage.

Then i assumed that if you have a secondary role… you are build in such a way that you can synergize with other team members in such a way, that you can play a secondary role of support WHILE not overstacking conditions WHILE having a overall DPS lower by 900 ?… Does the burning 900 DPS really count in the grand skim of things… when you have 25 stacks of bleeding x6, burning x5, confusion x5… and so on…

You’re loss of 900 DPS on single target guarantees not only higher DPS uptime for those team members you support, but also gives you something to do so that you don’t overstack in any or all party compositions (they have to be pretty good ones though… not 4 burners…).

Everything i assumed i backed up with math calculations and visual demonstration of the proof of concept… as in numbers and the fact that i demonstrated that i don’t even attack something all i do is dance then epidemic and i do insane AoE damage…

You also assume that single target condition type damage can rival bursting type damage on single target… As the math clearly demonstrates your single target DPS with conditions if you never overstack with anyone with burning is at best 3575 + 828 + fear damage (which is not sustain type)… an average of 5000 ?…

See what’s Spoj’s opinion on how much he can do with his power build… cause in good scenarios (like never overstacking with anyone else) i can do with my power build 6-7k every DS 1 hit ?… buffed even more… + time warp (time warp does nothing for a condition type build because cap).

Last but not least… i’ve created the 30 30 0 0 0 alternative for people who still do not favor this playstyle or like this way of thinking.

So… like i said… it’s not as simple as you’ve put it.

Lopez.7369:

This build is much worse than 30/30/0/10/0 or a power build for PvE and cookie-cutter 30/20/0/0/20 for PvP and WvW.

The biggest flaw with the video and build is the assumption that burning is useless in group settings. That’s simply false. Burning is prioritized based on the source’s condition damage, so a well-geared condition necromancer’s burning will usually take priority over burning from the rest of the group. That’s a substantial damage gain for the group and necromancer.

Some other problems:

Signet of Undeath is practically mandatory in high-end fractals. It isn’t as big of a deal in farming runs or world PvE, though. (It will probably be required whenever they add more challenging PvE content, such as raids.)

Terror is by far the largest DPS gain in the entire Curses line. As one example, it gives roughly 10 times more single-target DPS than Master of Corruption, assuming the necromancer is fearing on cooldown through Death Shroud. (A good build will take Hemophilia, Master of Corruption and Terror, but the comparison between Terror and Master of Corruption should show just how powerful Terror is in single-target fights.)

Staff should not be switched to in single-target fights because it’s a massive DPS loss compared to scepter and dagger. Staff should only be used for the opener and AOE.

Condition necromancers don’t have low single-target DPS. I know a lot of people assume that condition builds are bad DPS because the numbers are smaller, but, barring bleed cap, condition necromancers are on par with power builds because of the powerful mix of terror, bleeds, burning, torment, and poison and — this is key — range capability. (In general, people massively undervalue the ability to stay in range, particularly in fractals.)

You didn’t watch my video fully, only in bits… i can tell by what you just wrote, so i am not going to say too much on your feedback except the fact that 90% of the stuff you think i said, i didn’t…

It’s not as simple as you’ve put it, and i’ve explained and demonstrated it all.