Guild Wars 2

Apparently…

Marauder: Power, Precision, Ferocity, Vitality.
Crusader: Power, Toughness, Ferocity, Healing Power.
Wanderer: Power, Vitality, Toughness, Concentration.
Minstrel: Toughness, Healing Power, Vitality, Concentration.
Commander: Power, Precision, Toughness, Concentration
Viper’s: Power, Condi, Precision, Expertise
Trailblazer: Toughness, Condi, Vitality, Expertise
Vigilant: Power, Tougness, Concentration, Expertise

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

AngryBear.8741:

I respectfully disagree because if you kick Necro right after he joins a party or write in LFG tool “no necros” then you are not doing it because he doesn’t know how to play their class. You are doing it based on pure prejudice. Or maybe you want to tell me that number of necros that can’t play their class is somehow significantly larger than number of eles that can’t play their class, if taking a necro is a risk, but taking an ele isn’t? I have never heard of the case of ele being kicked from the party just because being an ele.

Please, read my posts again.
The important factor here is that Necros and Rangers barely bring things to their group when played badly/with the wrong setups. Thus many people don’t risk it and just kick on sight because there’s a high chance he’s kitten and not bringing anything to your party. A bad ele still often rolls staff so that you have decent dps + fire fields to utilize, there’s still a high chance they have ice bow and at least spawn an earth elemental now or then. So even though they’re kitten, they at least bring something you can properly utilize.

… see what i mean AngryBear ? Icebow did nothing to targets with a small hitbox without the linecasting exploit (which doesn’t work anymore btw) even before it was nerfed in half, and elementalist staff auto-attack DPS is laughable, yet people still cling to it.

See… what 2 years of misleading information has done to the community.

My friend… i can explain it to you, but i can’t understand it for you.

Take your favorite elementalist build, and test out your REAL DPS in a fight of your choosing, you don’t have to tell me what it is… because i already know it… i know all the values, all the real HP values and so on…

Do it… and after that if you still wish to argue with me, i will agree to everything you say.

AngryBear.8741:

I respectfully disagree because if you kick Necro right after he joins a party or write in LFG tool “no necros” then you are not doing it because he doesn’t know how to play their class. You are doing it based on pure prejudice. Or maybe you want to tell me that number of necros that can’t play their class is somehow significantly larger than number of eles that can’t play their class, if taking a necro is a risk, but taking an ele isn’t? I have never heard of the case of ele being kicked from the party just because being an ele.

@ Nemesis

Like I said, your work is something majority wouldn’t understand. I am not claiming you are right or worng, I am just saying we need objective and simple way everyone can understand to show who is right and who is wrong.

Think of it this way, if you make “non berserker meta” party and manage to do lvl 50 fractal in better or even similar time as them, then you have proven that there is no meta at all, there are just good and bad players and builds. Don’t forget that in all honesty, for the other side it is not just enough to win, they must win by significant margine, because if you base "most efficient: claim based on 5% difference, then it is beyond elitism to kick ppl for 30 second shorter run (for example).

Exactly, that is why I appreciate your intention, but… two parties going against each other have 10 human variables to consider, people would never accept anything of the sort… they would much rather go for “fake math”.

My way… has only 5 human variables instead of 10.
It’s not 5 players vs 5 players… it’s 5 players who prove they can achieve what they advertised.

It’s much more acceptable to the majority… If i boss has 100.000 HP… and you do 10.000 DPS, the boss should die in 10 seconds.

It’s simple… it’s elegant… it’s logical…

Although they will not do it, because they can’t… and they know this… you saw when Nike insulted me 5 months ago while claiming “corner-stacking doesn’t exist”.
I told him “don’t make me add all the damage from your own fights and show everyone it doesn’t match what you advertise, not even by half”… you saw how he got quiet all of a sudden and deleted all his posts.

Anyway… considering making a clean version of all these facts which should remain on the forums.

Although… HoT… is not doing so great… it might be very foolish of me to invest even more time and effort on GW2 YouTube content… which is such a shame, because the expansion is amazing…

I’ll see what i’ll do.

PS: still will post 1-2 builds for old times sake, and this time they won’t be wrongfully discredited like all my previous work. None of the elitists will dare say a single word to me now.

AngryBear.8741:

I think there is one undeniable way to establish who is right here. On one side we have group of people claiming that (berserker) meta is the only way to be efficient at high level Fractals, while on the other hand we have Nemesis (there are more people for sure, but he stands out) who claims that (berserker) meta is a lie and that it was Icebow meta.

Now, here is (more or less) simple test for both sides which can show who is right and who is not:

I challenge both sides to form party of their choosing and do as many Fractals as they want and record and present any run they wish (I assume they would want to show fastest run, but who knows). However, there are some rules.

1. “Berserker meta” party should obviously use only berserker builds. “Berserker meta” party cannot have Necromancers or Rangers in it.

2. “Anti berserker meta” party must have at least one Necromancer and/or Ranger (preferably 1 of each). “Anti berserker meta” party can use any set up they want (even if it is full berserker since the “berserker meta” excludes Necromancer and Rangers), however, for sake of everyone I hope they will use more diverse build setup.

3. They will agree on number of maps and which maps they will test so that certain mechanics don’t affect one type of builds. I suggest that each team suggests 2 maps which means they will have to test between 2 and 4 maps (preferably 2). At the end they must show best run for each map.

If they agree on it, they can select only 1 map of course.

4. Build changing is allowed but as long as it doesn’t affect type of the build in which the Fractal started (no changing power to condition or hybrid damage build for example).

5. Since the point of meta in general is to present ways to do things in most efficient way, each video must show run from the moment teams are in until the moment last boss is dead. This is to account for build changing, since spending time to change build before encounter is not really efficient and goes against the very idea of meta setup.

You can both keep presenting your calculations, but I don’t think average Joe will understand half of it. However, I do think that this is situation that needs a closure because meta has divided community and created toxicity and that is a FACT. Now let’s see if it was justified or it was just BS created by certain minority which majority accepted without asking questions.

P.S. I will create separate topic with this just so it gets more attention. I hope you won’t mind.

Well… it doesn’t have to be that complicated.

I have shown the real HP values of the bosses, the elitists can now very easily “back up” all their “claimed DPS” with their premade groups.

Failing to do so would mean that all of their calculations are wrong, which means all their conclusions are wrong… which means they tricked the entire community into kicking necromancer and ranger players for absolutely no reason for two years, well… other then to gain YouTube popularity.

You can’t go “my build does 20.000 DPS, kick all necromancers who do 10K DPS” and when you can finally prove you do 20.000 DPS… suddenly you stay quiet.
They can never take back their claims… or how they spread necro and ranger hate on false premises.

That’s just how it is…

No worries, it was to be expected… that’s why i planned, like i said in the podcast, to do a clean version with just the conclusions.

That version won’t have any of the fights displayed because there is nothing to fill the time of the fights with, since the drama will be taken out, but who ever wishes to verify the fights can watch part II and III.

I got wrongfully discredited and insulted for over 2 years, and i kept ignoring it…

As long as i will play Guild Wars 2 i will remind everyone once in a while, that Nike, Spoj and other elitists told the community sinister engineer and staff elementalist do 20.000 DPS, promoting a totally unrealistic meta which led to a very toxic gaming environment just to get popular on YouTube.

Two years i kept ignoring the elitists and everything they said… and i even warned them what would happen if they didn’t stop, they refused to listen.

Give it a few weeks… people will test their real DPS… and then we can have some fun.

I’m just now getting into HoT…

Q: Has anyone managed to get an ascended viper gear set yet ?… I’m curious of the exact stat differences between Viper, Sinister and Rampager… no one seems to know yet.

It makes a huge difference since the veggie pizza has gone down to +20% from 40%… absolutely all PvE condition builds have been effected by this.

Part II and III will be done before Hearth of Thorns comes out, and will be released at the same time…

If everything goes according to plan, and it never does apparently… i should release them tomorrow and then i scheduled to be part of a podcast discussing the videos on the 22nd… featuring Brazil, Teapot… and who ever wishes to challenge me.

Would also like to take the opportunity to thank once again to all the people who send me their plays, sorry if you didn’t make it in the video though… there’s simply no way to fit everything into two videos even…

the noobiniser.7465:

Artemid.3925:

…have you guys seen his older videos and their forum threads?

The ones where he was way, way more polite in the video and especially in his posts?

He pretty much received the exact same reactions, from the same type or set of people.

If his tone doesn’t actually matter, why not go poking some bee hives for more traffic?

That’s true, but I did like his videos with a friendly tone a lot more tbh, it feels like he stays above the haters when he just doesn’t interact with them or mentions them.

You… and people like you… are the minority… I am doing this for the majority.
Don’t you see… i toned down a bit on my language and suddenly i’m not getting any more feedback/attention.
Attention = coverage… still doesn’t equal profit since 10.000 views on YouTube = about 10-15$, but at least i reached 10.000 viewers and my ideas will probably rich 20.000 people.

I expect compensation for my efforts when this is done, and i’m not even trolling

flow.6043:

Nyth.3492:

You think his video would have gotten the attention it did without the drama ?
Look at how much attention it’s getting, just because Nemesis is poking a beehive with a stick a bit.
And all the suckers are massively falling for it.

Yes, falling for it…

Nemesis:
“I don’t care about views because gw2 isn’t popular enough to make any money with it anyway…”
…
“Great success! Look at how many views I got because I overdramatized my content!”

You’re going to put words in my mouth again ?… You’re like 12 aren’t you… The second quote is not mine, you straight up invented it…
I did however said that 10.000$ = about 10-15$ though.

Yes… reaching 10.000 people can change a lot of minds, but if you want to make a living you need to reach 1.000.000, especially if you worked on that video for 3 weeks… Now when was the last time you saw a Guild Wars 2 video reach 1 mil views ?

You’re just a sad troll who only aims to insult me… and i am feeding you…
Say… got any troll friends ?…

Jerus.4350:

Might want to cut down the drama if you want to actually make a point without people finding fault in your first few phrases. Just a little tip. Again, I think you make some great points, but they’re hidden behind all the controversy that you like to stir up. You rarely hit the potential damage, and the professions aren’t as imbalanced as they seem on paper, that’s what I get from your comments, and I fully agree, however you cloud that with the controversy, you simply do yourself a disservice by being abrasive and callous. If your goal is to actually change the minds of many players you’re doing a terrible job, if your goal is to provoke a lot of people into following you on youtube you’re doing a great job, keep it up.

The points i was making… i have been making for years… i added a bit of drama… Reddit post exploded, replies were coming in faster then i could read them, 16000 views in 2 days…

Morgan Freeman in his show “Through the wormhole” also makes good points, does he have views on YouTube ? NO… and he is THE Morgan Freeman.

If i put on calculations with a dull voice like on the weather channel, people will close the video by the 3rd minute, i would get 3000 views… 300 people would actually get it…

I just wasted 3 weeks of my life so that 300 people can get my point and i get 2$ from add revenue as a reward.

My goal is to perpetuate my points… not to get followers… you can’t get proper income from Guild Wars 2 content no matter what you do.

If i make 1x 10min video properly trolling feminism i would obtain 100 times more from it then any Guild Wars 2 video i have ever made. In fact… if this doesn’t turn out profitable eventually… this is what i will end up doing.

Just like every other YouTuber out there who is slowly converting into parodies and trolling because it’s what works… it’s what the people want to see…
People always make fun of Miley Cyrus and Kim Kardashian and Donalt Trump, yet you still watch them… you still vote for them…

It’s beyond ridiculous… it’s sad really…

TheDevice.2751:

Jerus.4350:

TheDevice.2751:

Or we can just stack our characters in one spot and spam all our skills till boss dies over and over and over and over and over…… (9 hrs later) and over and over and over…

srsly y do ppl think thre gud? frkin scrubs. PVP is were its at. That takes actaul skill. I can ran Arh in my slipe, it juts taks a few times doin it to get gud, then you memrize what is happn and just repeet, stack in this corner, stack in that corner, and ure done. so stpd.

Lol is that really what I sound like? I just don’t like pve in this game man im sorry XD No more vortic impersonations

You have to take into consideration that about 70% of the really active people in a gaming community are underaged, hell… according to YouTube demographic statistics the average view’s age is 13 years old.

Now… if you know these facts it kind of gives you a better perspective on the whole situation.

I’m just afraid that part II would be too complicated for most people to even comprehend… writing the script for it will be difficult since i will have to dumb it down a lot = lots of words &… i have to make it under 30 minutes because of the average viewer’s attention span = NOT lots of words…

I’ll have to add a lot of drama to keep people involved till the end, otherwise all my work has been for nothing.

I hope all my hard work will pay off… one day…

Wondrouswall.7169:

So, ETA on Part II?

I am dependent on Brazil for 3 different segments, and on two other people for their segments as well…

Once i get that i can add all the numbers… do all the math, draw out all the final conclusions, make the script, record the script aaaand… add everything together in the final product, which is a lot of hours of video editing.

7-14 days…

Sysakes.3260:

Batresh,

I don’t have to since nemesis has already done that. My point is that, in a solo setting, or without Lich Form, which is an elite on a 3 minute cooldown and can’t really be used on every boss, his average DPS would be much lower than the one in that fight. For example look at Brazil’s Vampire Necromancer guide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBuwFe2Aaxk at around the 23 minute mark, there’s a reason he doesn’t use lich form to calculate the AVERAGE DPS of his necromancer and is doing it solo, without buffs from the rest of the team.

Why are you people saying average DPS ?… Nemesis said average DPS for 3 years straight… but the “self proclaimed pro” kept saying no no no… Nemesis is stupid… no AVERAGE DPS… MAX DPS… LOOK MATH !…

Oh… and i keep an eye on this thread every now and again, and i see people are making so many remarks without even watching the entire video, without actually listening to what i say…

For example that 7.7k DPS was from a different build entirely… i said it, i write on screen… doesn’t really matter now does it ?…

Oh well… continue to flame me, i mean “have a conversation”, based on false premises with 0 real proof to back up any of your claims.

It’s fun

Sysakes.3260:

Just in case anyone’s interested, this is the total damage done by nemesis in 30 seconds : http://imgur.com/sYg0Xwi,bG9OS74#1 which means his DPS was http://imgur.com/sYg0Xwi,bG9OS74#0, not 14.7k .

Oh my god… seriously… OH MY GOD… i have no absolutely no words to describe this…

Are you seriously going to put the calculator on TOP of the boss’s HP so we won’t notice he is actually at half HP… in the first fight (as you can see by the party members on the left), which was the weakest one because i had weakness on as i was doing my highest burst, and i posted it on purpose just to bait people in… since i knew that’s what people were expecting… and after the screen goes black… i proved your expectations wrong…

You’re going to calculate my DPS for half a fight… before i even go in Lich Form under Timewarp ?…

Necromancer’s DPS increase by 20% after the boss goes under 50% health… and i saved up Lich Form and Timewarp to skyrocket my DPS towards the end…

I am speechless… i can’t believe the lengths at which you people go just to invent bullkitten about my video…

HAHAHAHAHA… OH MY GOD !… HAHAHAHAHA…
I saw how people are already laughing because they believe it ahahahahaha… SPOJ ACTUALLY BELIVED THAT… HAHAHAHA…

Dude… thank you… just got home, checked the forums… hahahaha… can’t stop laughing…

Norjena.5172:

Typical Nemesis video.

90% of what he says is wrong. Bad interpration of facts, mixed with his own, clear “meta sucks” opinion and he still misses alot of basics about it.

Just ignore it, best what u can do.

Remember his “15k awesome! 15k 15k 15k…..axe dps guide”.
he told u it was maxdps, even if we all know that dagger is doing much more dps.

Necromancers need a huge dps boost for pve.

Both The Nemesis and The Developers are so dumb for saying that necromancer is actually fine…

How can the entire community be wrong… and Nemesis be right ?… RIIIGHT ?
Hahahaha…

Part II will turn me into a living legend

flow.6043:

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

I’m still waiting for you to show me the base numbers on that DPS of warrior vs necro that I asked for almost two years ago.

You can always do it yourself… record a warrior run, record a necromancer run…
…
Come on, do your part

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

The burden of proof is on your end.

Do i not keep saying i am working on part II… What do i keep saying…

Ohhhh you’re ignoring what i say because you are trolling… oh man… you got me good there…

So which is it?
Are you asking others to do those calculations (which have been done many times anyway) or are you doing them in part 2?

Also, we’re really not trying to be rude. But Nemesis, whenever someone challenges the things you say you’re accusing them of being trolls. Why would you expect to be taken seriously when you’re not extending the same courtesy to others?

I’m not even sure what he wants, but if it’s even remotely relevant it will be in part II, if it’s not… it won’t be.
If any of you would like to invest idk how many hours of work, for free.. to satisfy someone else’s curiosity… by all means… in fact… while we are at it… can someone provide me with some elementalist footage, when he is NOT using the Icebow ?

I’m having a difficult time obtaining some

I am doing enough as it is for the community… for free…
You will thank me one day.

Kravick.4906:

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

Nemesis.8593:

:)

10.000 views on YouTube = 30$, working 3 weeks on a video for 30$ is mental… unless of course you are not doing it for the money…

If i was here for the money… i would even be here… literally…
Minecraft earns you 100x more easy.

I’m still waiting for you to show me the base numbers on that DPS of warrior vs necro that I asked for almost two years ago.

Pay me and i will show you, otherwise i am afraid i am just too busy with my own agenda, to be able to invest time and effort in satisfying everyone’s curiosity…
This is free content, take it or leave it… but you are not entitled to anything except an opinion…

You can always do it yourself… record a warrior run, record a necromancer run… manually add the damage done, divide by the time… and post it here for all to see…

Come on, do your part and help the community get to the bottom of this… what do you say ?

I’m sorry bro, but this is why I cannot take you seriously. The burden of proof is on your end. And if you aren’t even willing to show us the complete thesis, then its obvious you have no proof to show.

Do i not keep saying i am working on part II… What do i keep saying…

Ohhhh you’re ignoring what i say because you are trolling… oh man… you got me good there…

Kravick.4906:

Nemesis.8593:

:)

10.000 views on YouTube = 30$, working 3 weeks on a video for 30$ is mental… unless of course you are not doing it for the money…

If i was here for the money… i would even be here… literally…
Minecraft earns you 100x more easy.

I’m still waiting for you to show me the base numbers on that DPS of warrior vs necro that I asked for almost two years ago.

Pay me and i will show you, otherwise i am afraid i am just too busy with my own agenda, to be able to invest time and effort in satisfying everyone’s curiosity…
This is free content, take it or leave it… but you are not entitled to anything except an opinion…

You can always do it yourself… record a warrior run, record a necromancer run… manually add the damage done, divide by the time… and post it here for all to see…

Come on, do your part and help the community get to the bottom of this… what do you say ?

Shiki.7148:

Arantheal.7396:

Have you seen his channels’ title video?
To save your time, he’s speaking very openly & directly about what youtube clips have to contain to create a maximum of clicks, displaying a complete lack of respect towards his audience by picturing them as mindless click-machines, always after the next sensation.
So now he’s creating his own.

He’s not creating all this fuzz about his “awesome part II” because he thinks it changes something about how necro is perceived, he just tries to bait people into giving him attention & ultimately giving him more clicks so he can get into youtube-partnership one day.

This guy is intentionally trolling for economic reasons.
My suggestion: Don’t even click his “awesome part II” until he has posted the core of his point on the forums. And if you think it’s bullkitten, refuse to click as well.
At least that’s what I’ll do.
Have a nice day.

Yeah, right…which is why he puts a lot of kittening work in a single video, instead of spamming low quality/low effort videos every day with titles in all caps with multiple exclamation marks and female breasts in every thumbnail, while ignoring all feedback and never responding to comments. Good try at trolling, bro.

:)

10.000 views on YouTube = 10$, working 3 weeks on a video for 10$ is mental… unless of course you are not doing it for the money…

If i was here for the money… i would even be here… literally…
Minecraft earns you 100x more easy.

EDIT: It’s actually 10$ because of the current RPM due to autumn being a “dead season” for advertising, forgot about that.

Arantheal.7396:

Have you seen his channels’ title video?
To save your time, he’s speaking very openly & directly about what youtube clips have to contain to create a maximum of clicks, displaying a complete lack of respect towards his audience by picturing them as mindless click-machines, always after the next sensation.
So now he’s creating his own.

He’s not creating all this fuzz about his “awesome part II” because he thinks it changes something about how necro is perceived, he just tries to bait people into giving him attention & ultimately giving him more clicks so he can get into youtube-partnership one day.

This guy is intentionally trolling for economic reasons.
My suggestion: Don’t even click his “awesome part II” until he has posted the core of his point on the forums. And if you think it’s bullkitten, refuse to click as well.
At least that’s what I’ll do.
Have a nice day.

What an amazing theory… if only i wouldn’t already be a YouTube partner for 3 years now, and have access to ratings which clearly show that doing Guild Wars 2 content is one of the least profitable things you can do on YouTube right now.

10.000 views on YouTube = ~10$, working 3 weeks on a video for 10$ is mental… unless of course you are not doing it for the money…

If i was here for the money… i would even be here… literally…
Minecraft earns you 100x more easy.

You… are right about one thing though… i am drawing attention to myself… for part II…

Normally i wouldn’t take the time to answer no names, delusional people like you… because frankly you are irrelevant… but… answering you, further fuels the argument until eventually i will be proven right, about everything and you will eat your own words…

Have a nice day as well

PS: It’s irrelevant if you will click my part II or not, you will find out about it anyway from other who will.

EDIT: It’s actually 10$ because of the current RPM due to autumn being a “dead season” for advertising, forgot about that.

Tim.6450:

Nyth.3492:

I think a recount (dps meter) would be a bad addition to GW2. But solely for the fact that 95% of the people have no clue how to interpret them. They see the phalanx warrior doing 70% of the DPS of the others and don’t see past the fact that he’s using a sub optimal dps spec to buff the whole party for more overall damage.

But the problem in GW2 is, that people are still drawing the same conclusions. But instead of reading (and often misinterpreting) damage meters; people now base their opinions on “gutfeeling”, hearsay about “meta” and sites which proclaim which composition is optimal for their run.
Badly played elementalists are guaranteed spots even though they might be horrible; and well played necromancers are dismissed before even seeing combat.

I think this is closer to the truth then we would like to admit.

Getting closer my friends… but the truth is even more cruel… part II is coming

Nyth.3492:

skarpak.8594:

yeah, and nemisis missed (or ignored completly in full consciousness!) the point that he got fully buffed by everyone else in that group setting (especially by that warrior) and compared his dps to that of a phalax warrior…a support setting!

I think he could have been clearer. But I think his approach was not to say necromancer is better than warrior. Because I think most of us agree it still isn’t.
I think he’s merely trying to prove (whether that succeeds or not) that even though a necromancer doesn’t bring buffs, it brings competetive dps.
Yes the warrior is still extremely valuable since it provides you all the might and stuff while doing solid dps.

But if we can bring other good stuff; which might require some changing to the vulnerability of bosses to certain debuffs, like weakness and chill; and still do dps that at least challanges another support class like Phalanx Warrior. Then we might have an entry into at the very least being taken seriously.

That said. A 90% lich uptime is not DPS. It’s burst. It’s quite literally what he stated at the start of his video.
And even though you can probably have high lich uptime in every current content fight. I think it’s much better to focus on 3+ minute fights to get a more fair picture with the upcoming raids and all.

True… it’s much more realistic to focus on 3+ minute long fights…
Yesssssss… sss…

Also true, and i have said quite a few times already, i never said necromancer should replace a warrior in a party… ever…

What i am saying is that… contrary to popular believe necromancer doesn’t have LOWER DPS then a warrior which also provides buffs… in fact… those warrior buffs are for me, the necromancer, the higher DPSer… If it wasn’t for the Icebow exploit of course…

skarpak.8594:

Shiki.7148:

spoj.9672:

https://youtu.be/AmkVfz9pvS8

Faster than warrior! /s

I know i can probably save at least 2 mins with a revised build and proper rotation. But definitely not 4 minutes to get close to a warriors time.

You completely missed the point though. This is a solo fight you are talking about. Nemesis’ vid was about groups, and he was fighting from range. Due to it being in a group, the lack of active defenses on Necro doesn’t matter that much, meaning way higher DPS uptime since you don’t have to “waste time” dodging / healing where a warrior just pops a block or invuln and keeps spamming damage and lifestealing. Group setting =/= Solo Setting.

But come HoT this will all be moot anyway, because below 50% enemy hp timewarped critting gravediggers are completely insane X)

yeah, and nemisis missed (or ignored completly in full consciousness!) the point that he got fully buffed by everyone else in that group setting (especially by that warrior) and compared his dps to that of a phalax warrior…a support setting!
i don’t even know why he choose a ps-warr? still the thought from pugs 2 years ago that warrior are the best dps class or what?

if you want to compare fully buffed dps classes (i guess that was his point), then he should have compared his dps to that of a fully buffed dps warr (so with 2 warrs in the group, one running ps with banners, so the other one can go full dps).

since i don’t have the numbers, i don’t know wich class does more dps in that time. could be still necro since lich form does a good dmg chunk…and since its about bursting stuff down in group settings atm, maybe necro does more dps here in that short time window…i don’t know.

on the other hand, he will still not outdps a ele since lavafont uptime, fireball spam and meteors will raise eles dps to top notch.
while that, ele brings much utilitie to the group.

we all know that necro does good dmg and we all know he is not in the meta because its a selfish class. neverless you can bring a necro without problems into a group if you are fine with it. just get one ele out or so, dmg will drop down but if someone wants to play a necro, why not.

(i am ignoring here that he completly skewed with numbers and had inkonsistent timer starts because “he would start the kill timer when prestacking might”
…as many said, you either start the timer at the start of a dungeon / fractal or when the boss gets his first hit. thats the baseline what all people do when doing videos and just because one person said its wrong, it is still not…the rest agrees already that it is right.)

nemesis did only one thing: creating drama to get more (anti-meta)ppl into his youtube channel, so he gets more views.
only problem of what he did: he messed up with the completly wrong people and insulted them.
yeah, there are some daily “toxic elitist scrubs” out there in the lfg-tool, who have probably no idea what the meta is about or how it comes to that and mess up their fights in dungeons and insult other people while playing bad.

but those people are not the people shown in the footage of his video and the rest who is posting in forums or maintaining stuff like gw2dungeons, publishing meta guides and doing numbers for sience. also not the people who solo stuff and show their skill with good times in those solos.

if nemesis wants to save his face, he should get out a apology to all these people he insulted…
…sure, you can create drama to get more people onto you yt-channel, but with insulting (completly wrong and more famous people so he gets more attention)? thats just not the right way.

I can sustain my own 25 stacks of might, thank you very much… especially after the trait system change… and since i don’t have to buff because i can’t, except for blood is power that i do on the fly…

Yes… i am pretty much ready to go without “pre-preparation”, why should i add more time to myself, when… that’s the entire point… my body is ready !… NOW !

I compared to the warrior since it’s not only the most played class, but also as you will see in the comments both on official forums and on reddit… the majority of people believe that necromancer not only doesn’t bring ANY buffs unlike a warrior, but also has LOWER DPS then a warrior who also brings buffs.

As for the rest of the classes… they are “Icebow carriers”, so good luck finding an elementalist that will lend you his footage, without Icebow… and even then it would have been regarded as “fake” & “biased” because hey… “elementalist should have used the Icebow”.

As for the rest of what you said… wait for part II.

Shiki.7148:

Nemesis.8593:

Thaddeus.4891:

Ok no I made a mistake. He’s doing the 14.7k without using the icebow himself. He’s doing it while the team is using icebow.

The point here would be that with a shorter fight (because of icebow), he spend more time as a percentage of the fight either in lich form or DS where he does more damage. In longer fight (without icebow) he spend almost the same amount of time in lich form and DS, but since the first last longer he need to auto-attack for more time dropping his overall dps.

Also in the first fight i was at only 8K because i had weakness on, and i knew most people would not spot this… and like i said, and you’ve saw… Timewarp dropped on me out of the blue… it was one of my first test runs, i didn’t get the timing of my Lich Form right.
These two aspects combined influences the outcome by miles… from 8K to 12K… very big difference…
I didn’t even think i will use the footage… but then i thought… uuuu… yesssss i know what this is for… Why else would i post footage which would discredit me… when i have so much better footage already ready.

“Pretty much what everyone expected… right ?” screen goes black… and you hear my voice in the darkness

Without Icebow in party and not debuffed i go to 12K… over 44 seconds.
With Icebow in party i go to 14.7k… over 27 seconds…

Because i spent a higher % of the fight under Timewarp while in Lich Form, which is like the definition of bursting.
So yeah… the “first side-effect” of Icebow, it makes your DPS even higher then you already think it is"… mark my words carefully…

PS: Didn’t knew my video got posted here as well, going to read through your comments and answer some of you… right after i eat something since i just woke up.

All i have to say for now… is that the original video was 37 minutes long, and i wanted to say a lot more stuff… so i had a part of it removed but i will add everything together in part II.
I know there are some parts here… that don’t fully make sense… but it does further help me because it fuels the controversy, which attracts attention… all preparation for part II, which will be at least 2 times more brutal.

You guys will one day thank me for this…

One thing though: Using Lich form makes this non-repeatable in the given timeframe and thus , by your own definition “burst”, not “sustained DPS”. Question is, was the Warriors ~11k repeatable? I’d assume so. Although if you take around 2 minutes to the next boss this becomes pretty much irellevant. Looking forward to part 2!

Eeeexactly… it’s burst… NOT DPS… yessss…
Will probably take me at least a week for part II, but it is coming… mark my words… and it will be soooo much more brutal

Thaddeus.4891:

Ok no I made a mistake. He’s doing the 14.7k without using the icebow himself. He’s doing it while the team is using icebow.

The point here would be that with a shorter fight (because of icebow), he spend more time as a percentage of the fight either in lich form or DS where he does more damage. In longer fight (without icebow) he spend almost the same amount of time in lich form and DS, but since the first last longer he need to auto-attack for more time dropping his overall dps.

Also in the first fight i was at only 8K because i had weakness on, and i knew most people would not spot this… and like i said, and you’ve saw… Timewarp dropped on me out of the blue… it was one of my first test runs, i didn’t get the timing of my Lich Form right.
These two aspects combined influences the outcome by miles… from 8K to 12K… very big difference…
I didn’t even think i will use the footage… but then i thought… uuuu… yesssss i know what this is for… Why else would i post footage which would discredit me… when i have so much better footage already ready.

“Pretty much what everyone expected… right ?” screen goes black… and you hear my voice in the darkness

Without Icebow in party and not debuffed i go to 12K… over 44 seconds.
With Icebow in party i go to 14.7k… over 27 seconds…

Because i spent a higher % of the fight under Timewarp while in Lich Form, which is like the definition of bursting.
So yeah… the “first side-effect” of Icebow, it makes your DPS even higher then you already think it is"… mark my words carefully…

PS: Didn’t knew my video got posted here as well, going to read through your comments and answer some of you… right after i eat something since i just woke up.

All i have to say for now… is that the original video was 37 minutes long, and i wanted to say a lot more stuff… so i had a part of it removed but i will add everything together in part II.
I know there are some parts here… that don’t fully make sense… but it does further help me because it fuels the controversy, which attracts attention… all preparation for part II, which will be at least 2 times more brutal.

You guys will one day thank me for this…

Arantheal.7396:

Nemesis.8593:

Thaddeus.4891:

nacario.9417:

-snip-

-snip-

-snip-

your personal dps doesn’t really matter

Uuuu… trolling… i’m new to the game but i’m learning fast…

Personal DPS doesn’t matter… so… summon icebows… don’t use them…
Take 5 guardians, stand near the Mossman and buff yourselves with Empower until it dies

… and here i was thinking that the warrior buffs were there to buff high DPSers like me, to increase our personal DPS and therefor the team’s overall DPS, i was doing it wrong all this time… We need to buff-bribe bosses in this game, maybe if we buff them hard enough… they will just surrender the loot and no one has to get hurt…

Thaddeus.4891:

nacario.9417:

Nemesis do make fair points though in his last response, which is what his vid is about, dont let your hate get in your way, which is also what his vid is about..

But what his point?

- Necromancer don’t have that much less dps than other profession while using an Icebow? We already know that.

Necromancer have a 8k dps compare to the Warrior 12k in group settings? We already know that

- Pre buffs is usually not a good idea overall unless you can’t attack the boss right away? I agree with that point.

- Warrior have a lot less dps in solo situation. The DPS difference between necro and warrior in that situation are marginal.? We know that already.

The thing is Nemesis try to beat the meta with DPS numbers and continue to say that Meta is only about DPS DPS. But still, the Necromancer isn’t push out of the meta because of his dps, but because of his support. If DPS was the only thing important, Mesmer would not be part of the meta.

You just watched the first 3 minutes right ?…

Hahaha… I have anticipated this “wannabe elitist scrub” reaction… the screen goes black, and you will hear my voice… talking to you…

See… this is exactly what i was saying, people are under the impression not only that necromancer doesn’t bring any buffs to the party but he is also lower in DPS then a wa rrior who does…

psssttt… it’s not 12K, it’s 11.4k for the meta warrior, and it’s not 8K for the necromancer it’s 14.7K in the same circumstances…
Without Icebow my DPS drops to 12K… and if i have a 20% DPS decrease from the lack of an Icebow in the party… so does Brazil, so his DPS would be 9.4K… should i continue ?…

No Icebow = 12K necro, 9K warrior – 40 seconds fights…
1x Icebow = 14.7K necro, 11.4K warrior- 27 second fights…
3x Icebow = no idea, no idea – 13 second fights
I’m starting to see a pattern here… “The first… side effect, people are under the impression they do even more DPS, then they actually do…”

That 8K was one of my worst runs and i put it up on purpose… exactly… for reactions like this: “we already knew that”… i even said “just like everyone expected right ?”…

Hahahaha… I… WAS ALWAYS… RIGHT… of course i was right…

Demandred.7930:

Nemesis.8593:

If this gentlemen can get it, so can the rest of you…

I took a very big chunk out of this video, the initial size was 37 minutes… that chunk along more things will be in part 2… and now that i have your attention… ohhhh… part II…

It’s going to be beeeaaauuuutiful

Hey Nemesis,

It could be interesting to estimate the indirect dps by group support. Any chance, you could do some dps calculations for class X with and without the support from warrior? As a setup, I propose the same team with war and necro, and compare the kill times on 5+ runs or so? By considering kill time, the variable performances of the four others average out, which should yield better estimates on the indirect dps. Tbh, I think you made your point about direct dps already clear two years ago. I think that quantifying the indirect dps is necessary for an objective comparison. You intentionally made this a war vs necro thing to provoke people, you cheeky person :p Looking forward to your next vid! I’m planning to patreon you btw. There, I said it.

It’s the first time i try to speak in “the language of the internet” and the results unbelievable…

What you are asking is possible yet irrelevant, i can not say more without spoiling part II…
All i can say right now is that you are asking the wrong questions, i will answer the right questions in part II…

It’s true… warrior is used as a buffer + DPS not as pure DPS, but… buffer for who though ?…
There is such a thing as too many buffs (because of the buff cap) otherwise all parties will have… idk… 5 warriors ?… SO… shouldn’t warriors be glad to see the necromancer, the high DPSer ?…

Why aren’t they ?… Because Icebow exploiting does 10x BURST-DPS then any other class… and it just so happens that most of the fights are over in that period, and the BURST-DPS doesn’t have time to fall short…
Now… should the monsters have 10x more HP ?… or should the Icebow be fixed ?… (which is already a confirmed change for HoT btw)

Another delusional idea is that necromancer not only doesn’t bring any buffs to the party, but also has LOWER DPS, then a warrior who also brings support… that’s why necromancers get kicked… LOW DPS + NO SUPPORT

No my friends… i bring the damage + debuffing, you bring the support + damage = balance, as soon as Icebow is gone…

That is all i can say for now without spoiling part II… if you think part I was controversial… ohhhhh just you wait.
Thank you for your support on the matter.

Purple Miku.7032:

Thanks Frifox!

Okay so here was my solo DPS on korga with normal and easily repeatable circumstances, solo setting:

---

https://youtu.be/HknHJVGbvCY

Korga’s hp: 1,497,440
Total time of kill from first to last hit: 3:55:18 (3 minutes, 55 seconds, 18 milliseconds) or 235.18 seconds.

1497440 / 235.18 = 6367.2, or ~6367 DPS in a solo setting on a boss that’s moving for most of the time and I have much less opportunity to attack him constantly.

Beat my time on this boss on a necro then, someone.

In fact, I will pay in gem codes if you can beat my Korga time with a necro. Hell, possibly more. Let’s put that necro DPS to the test!

You really don’t see it do you… hahaha…

God, i shouldn’t say anything because it might spoil the surprise but i can’t help it…
This… was just part I, and it’s original size was 37 minutes… there is going to be a part II soon…

Ohhhhh… the part II…

Thank you my friend for all that you have done… hahahaha…

nacario.9417:

Thaddeus.4891:

nacario.9417:

Nemesis do make fair points though in his last response, which is what his vid is about, dont let your hate get in your way, which is also what his vid is about..

But what his point?

- Necromancer don’t have that much less dps than other profession while using an Icebow? We already know that.

- Necromancer have a 8k dps compare to the Warrior 12k in group settings? We already know that.

- Pre buffs is usually not a good idea overall unless you can’t attack the boss right away? I agree with that point.

- Warrior have a lot less dps in solo situation. The DPS difference between necro and warrior in that situation are marginal.? We know that already.

The thing is Nemesis try to beat the meta with DPS numbers and continue to say that Meta is only about DPS DPS. But still, the Necromancer isn’t push out of the meta because of his dps, but because of his support. If DPS was the only thing important, Mesmer would not be part of the meta.

Actually parts what I understood is that randoms now think the Meta is all about certain classes going zerk, not understanding that they arnt going to achieve meta since they dont go icebow (lol), and that they often overextend by pillar hugging n doing stuff that makes the dungeon runs longer – while also dying due to their squishyness as zerks – and that class x has viable/competable weapon variants beyond what metabattle/wiki claims. Meaning he didnt say it was all about the DPS, which the zerk meta is all about.

If this gentlemen can get it, so can the rest of you…

I took a very big chunk out of this video, the initial size was 37 minutes… that chunk along more things will be in part 2… and now that i have your attention… ohhhh… part II…

It’s going to be beeeaaauuuutiful

Jerus.4350:

Shiki.7148:

Thing is: Even IF you guys do 13k DPS on Warrior instead of 11 (in what, which you admitted yourself, was a unrealistic fight), then it still is lower as the ranged 14k DPS from Nemesis’ Necro one. Ranged means , in theory, a more stable DPS uptime, meaning his example wasn’t as cherrypicked as you claim it was. Well, except if you call "taking a fight that doesn’t only last 5 seconds thx to icebow, when the whole point of the video was that the reason warrior DPS is “higher” is because the fights are so short it is still essentially “burst” " cherrypicking the fight. Imagine this: If Anet actually freaking fix’d Icebow, that would be the type of fights you get. Which, again, was the godkitten point of the video. Warriors still bring way more grouputility to the fight, however, and the results may differ if the warrior took a completely selfish spec, and nobody says anything against that. But in that “specific” scenario : nearly 100% DPS uptime of both warrior and Necro, in a fight not shortended by exploiting Icebow, the Necromancers damage is on par or even slightly higher than a warriors.

I do ackknowledge calling “whirling against the wall” an exploit was stupid though.

While I love me some necro, don’t forget he’s showing the DPS of the 180s reuse Lich Form. Not something you can do with any kind of consistency and if he were say doing the Harpy Fractal he’d be able to hit that for one fight then running into a plethora of practical issues.

I think he makes a good point in that people believe the spreadsheets too much but the idea that he’s proven his claim here? Naw. And, accusing Miku of Cherrypicking while he sits in an Elite form with all the possible group buffs and defenses that you could ask for… pretty disingenuous don’t ya think?

… “it’s not even true, it’s situational”, “bursting builds fall short in longer engagements”, “builds inadequate for the engagement”, “somethings hybrid, condition and bursting builds are more or less the same because of the circumstances and mechanics of the fight”

Now… if only Nemesis would have also said all this things, oh wait i did…

Are you trying to prove my point that you shouldn’t use bursting builds everywhere ?… That there is no zerker meta ?… I’m confused…

Purple Miku.7032:

I’ll just post this here since I finally got annoyed enough with his fanboys spamming my youtube notifications enough to do it.

---

https://youtu.be/B78o5uBUZG4

In this video I kill crusher from first hit to last hit in precisely 1 minute, 21 seconds, 21 milliseconds (1:21:21) or just 81.21 seconds. The crusher has exactly 1,087,940 health.

1087940 / 81.21 results in exactly 13,396.626, or roughly ~13.4k DPS over the course of the entire fight, which was in a solo setting.

The video nemesis showed has somebody using a suboptimal warrior build for personal damage along with suboptimal utility choice and a suboptimal rotation, and he also starts the timer like 6 seconds early or some pathetic kitten like that. For his necro video he gets fully buffed from a phalanx warrior, EA, both banners, frost spirit, and more… even gets to use his 180 second cooldown burst for the duration of the 30 second encounter, and gets personal DPS barely better than what I was able to do in a completely solo setting.

Yet this is the same kid who claims that a warrior in a group gets supposedly 2k less DPS than me who isn’t maintaining 25 might, isn’t getting EA, isn’t getting both banners, and isn’t getting frost spirit with 25 vuln on the boss. I’m completely by myself in my video. What do you think my sustained DPS would be if I were to have all of these things, hmmm?

I’d have 320 extra power from both banner of strength and EA, I’d have several hundred power more for a large portion of the encounter since I wasn’t sustaining 25 might this entire time, I’d have an additional ~20-22% more damage from having 25 vuln sustained on the boss instead of 2-3, etc etc… you get the picture.

---

But you know what?

I have the basic decency to admit that my video is an unrealistic demonstration of what normally happens in fights. I have 25 bloodlust stacks here, I start the fight on full adrenaline without having to activate signet or use the shout heal to get it, I was able to use scholar runes, and I was able to perfectly position the two bosses to convenience myself by ensuring they were in cleave range at all times. On top of that, crusher is a lightly armored boss, which totally skews the results in my favor.

Because of this, I am not posting a video trying to trick thousands of people into believing something that’s untrue and skewed in my favor. Why don’t I do this, you might ask?

Well the answer is quite simple:

It’s because I’m not a scumbag with a hidden agenda.

This is why i have no respect for you… you try to delude people with “one time only” situations like this, then you say i try to delude people.

You got EXACTLY that boss at EXACTLY that spot, and you used EXACTLY a mechanic which allows you to dodge EXACTLY a single attack… which gave you 100% DPS uptime on a glass warrior…

Congratulations… you found an engagement where all the planets align and you have that 1 in a million results… and you pulled out 13k DPS… according to you, because i never checked.

Yes… you can pull out 13k DPS when all the planets align… one specific boss, one specific location… uuu…
Oh… it’s not a niche situation, it’s not a one time only thing ? Ok… try it on Mossman 50 or any other encounter in the game where you actually have to do something other then press NR 3 every 10 seconds… and if you get 13k DPS i will literally eat my keyboard…

Should i take one of your mossman’s solo to show you, in a complex fight your DPS gets down to 3-6k ?…
GG… 13k DPS on a target dummy, and since you already had max might… solo setting or party setting won’t be much difference for you anyway, unless of course you get a necromancer to help you stack that vulnerability… since as i can see you are lacking in that department…

The only reason why you got a DPS higher then Brazil with the same build (?), is because when he used nr 3 he actually went somewhere, and had to come back, unlike you who glitch yourself in a small piece of terrain, come on… anyone can see that… and yet you call Brazil BAD… BRAZIL…

And… you know all these things, since you are a skilled player, i’ve seen you play… of course you know… but what do you do ?…
Post misleading information anyway… again… a niche situation while saying the other guy posts niche situations… just to screw with the community yet again again, to make people think they do 13K DPS if they play your build, when in fact 80% of the time they would just lie flat on their backs if they try this kitten in a real fight… unless the fight is over instantly with Icebow of course…

You have my respect as a player, but never as a person.

You may be able to trick inexperienced players, but you will never be able to trick me, why are you even trying ?

EDIT: I didn’t read the last part… If you are admitting it’s not a realistic situation, then what are we even discussing here ?…
You do 13K DPS in an unrealistic situation… Brazil did 11K DPS in a realistic situation… why is he subpar ?…

When i asked for footage i asked for one of his best fractal runs, if he has the time… cause i know he is busy with real life stuff as well, and between you and me… pug groups never get to match his numbers… or mine for that matter…
This was about “wannabe elitists-scrubs”, you don’t qualify

Tell you what… give me a better version then Brazil at Bloomhunger, and i will calculate the real DPS… maybe you can squeeze in another 1K…
Just please have combat log opened since i don’t have to use slow motion to add things “extra” manually… i can just get them off the combat log, ok ?…

AAAANDD… please give me one of your Mossman fights… straight up Mossman, maybe no icebow :P… and we’ll calculate the DPS for that as well ?
Ok ?…

You can’t get more realistic then what i am doing… manual adding the damage has a 99% accuracy…

dlonie.6547:

Nemesis.8593:

I… get kicked insta-kick… for playing builds that burst 14.7K, by people who don’t have a clue about anything…
BUT… when it’s the other way around, i don’t kick even when i have good reason…

Want a cookie? You two acted like a couple of kittenes, mocking and being rude to someone who doesn’t minmax, but you didn’t kick them. You’re truly gods amongst mere men.

YES… please post more of me… make me famous

Ah, that’s what this is about. Enjoy the attention, maybe it’ll be enough someday.

I acted like a what… because i said my head hurts ?… My head was actually pounding that day, and i was in a very bad mood… that’s why i even remembered the fractal…

It’s not even worth answering this… since 90% of you people do a lot worse for a lot less, and are also hypocritical about it.

PS: Yes i am… unfortunately i can’t get the tittle “God amongst mere mortals”

dlonie.6547:

I wish I was as awesome as OP and Nemesis. Then I could be a prick in PuGs, too.

http://puu.sh/jNn7F/f31d345a46.jpg
http://puu.sh/jNnal/cc4352119b.jpg

Yes… the guy was in berserker/cavalier… auto-attacking scepter, which is like one of the worst things you can possibly do… yet we did not kick him, i was just expressing my frustration at the kitten i have to put up with…

I… who outdps most if not all of the “wannabe-elitists scrubs” that you have seen times and times again in my videos… people who only get down and talking kitten…

I… get insta-kick… for playing builds that burst 14.7K (higher then META-warrior), by people who don’t have a clue about anything…
BUT… when it’s the other way around, i don’t kick even when i have good reason…

I had no idea i was being screenshoted, so yes… this is me at my worse… so… please post more of me… make me famous

Hello everyone,

For those of you who didn’t pre-ordered the game yet, i’ve put together this overview/highlights/feedback from last week’s beta event.

GW2: Heart of Thorns BETA and THE REAPER

I hope you enjoy.

Hello everyone

So… I had the build idea since March when Foot in the Grave first became a stun breaker… but only recently managed to find the time to make this guide.

The build is designed to be a solution to the “get the necro !” mentality which is currently in the GW2 PvP meta.

GW2: introducing The Executioner [Necromancer SPvP power support build]

Hope you guys will have as much fun with it as i did.

Azsune.7946:

I have been doing ok with Condition damage with my necromancer. I hit a 8k bleed tick a couple of times. But normally cap out around 7k with 25 stacks of might.

http://imgur.com/Lpt7UYx

It’s no where near those crazy 20k burn pictures but its decent.

Those 20K burns are more single target then AoE… your job there is not to match that, is to spread that…
Balance = all classes are equivalent, not the same.

PS: epidemic spreads conditions from target and use your condition damage and duration, regardless of who applied it… you can even spread power build bleeds and still melt everything in AoE.

Shiki.7148:

Nemesis.8593:

You guys mind if i join the conversation ?

I’ve seen a lot of hard cold facts and accurate calculations around this thread, yet all of them are relative to/compared to the current berserker meta which is possible only in the context of corner stacking & bad AI/gameplay design.

In other words… did you guys honestly expected condition damage to be transformed into something that would match corner stacking bursting ?… This is not CS to one shot each other all over the place…

It would be wise to take into consideration how these changes will interact with proper PvE content, which we may get in HoT.

Conditionmancer was always about AoE, epidemic was always the highest hitting skill in the game in theory and with the removal condition stacks, it just became practice…

Epidemic is now the highest hitting skill in the game, period…

power builds – single target/AoE burst
condition builds – single target sustain/massive AoE sustain
… and thus, we all have our place in the game #balance

Actually I have to disagree this time. Necro PvE condibuilds are bad. Engi and Guardian PvE condi-builds are pretty decent to frigging strong. For one because burning is ridiculously OP right now, and additionally Necros just apply bleed and poison way to slowly compared to other classes getting 6 or more stacks of bleed with a single skill. And then bleeding was hit with the nerfbat too while poison damage was made way too low… If the balance on applied stacks per profession and bleed vs poison vs burndamage was actually good, Condis would be viable in PvE.

Like i said… “in THIS PvE…” which we can all agree is pretty not good… it would be absurd to even consider they would make the biggest balance change since the beginning aimed at THIS crap PvE.

I believe it is the first stage of what is to come…

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Nemesis.8593:

You guys mind if i join the conversation ?

Epidemic is now the highest hitting skill in the game, period…

lol…

Epidemic is now the highest hitting skill in the game, with these following qualifications:

1. Only in zergs of greater than 10 people
2. Only against targets that last longer than 45 seconds
3. Only against adds, does 0 damage to main targets

I suppose it is marginally useful for lane fights like VW, but it does 0 damage at most boss fights…. hardly the “hardest hitting skill in the game, full stop”

Zerkermeta theorycrafters have done void calculations since the beginning, and most people agree to that… why can’t we do the same about epidemic, especially since it’s not in a void anymore.

It’s more likely to a best scenario epidemic on a fractal boss to kill it’s adds then it is to have full permabuffs/debuffs and 100% DPS uptime…

So yes… it is the hardest hitting skill in the game.

You guys mind if i join the conversation ?

I’ve seen a lot of hard cold facts and accurate calculations around this thread, yet all of them are relative to/compared to the current berserker meta which is possible only in the context of corner stacking & bad AI/gameplay design.

In other words… did you guys honestly expected condition damage to be transformed into something that would match corner stacking bursting ?… This is not CS to one shot each other all over the place…

It would be wise to take into consideration how these changes will interact with proper PvE content, which we may get in HoT.

Conditionmancer was always about AoE, epidemic was always the highest hitting skill in the game in theory and with the removal condition stacks, it just became practice…

Epidemic is now the highest hitting skill in the game, period…

power builds – single target/AoE burst
condition builds – single target sustain/massive AoE sustain
… and thus, we all have our place in the game #balance

Good day everyone,

I’ll start by saying that this is not a “they nerfed my build /cry” thread, especially since it just got buffed in the recent patch… har har har

The thing is… I’ve been meaning to introduce this playstyle / release this build ever since March 31 2015 when Foot in the Grave first became a stun breaker. Unfortunately… by the time I finished making the guide, the game changed in my face with only a few days of warning.
I thought maybe we will get the patch notes in advanced so I can make the necessary modifications, that didn’t happen either…

Therefor… I decided to upload this somewhat outdated build and use it as a preview for what is to come… since the playstyle I am introducing remains the same… aaaand I already shared my build with a few people, and I remember how disappointed I was last time someone else took credit for my work.

So… until the weekend gets here so I will have the time to remake it, you guys can get familiarized with this playstyle that I am introducing.

GW2: introducing the Frozen Ravager [necromancer PvP support – powerbuild]

Or… for those of you who would rather wait, you can check the description of the video and use the skip function which will take you directly to some PvP montage/example you can enjoy meanwhile.

Now… i’m off to sleep, it’s exactly 3:42 AM here… and my eyes are falling… good night everyone.

PS: the new hybrid is INSANE !

Well i didn’t get updated on at least 30 of my recent games…

http://i.imgur.com/0pvMtDM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zOdEp68.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/64fXrDW.jpg

I literally have video proof that i have done them… i was recording footage for my new PvP build guide.

I’ve recently developed a new form of a powerbuild for the necromancer, and i’ve been testing it out intensively the past 3-4 days as i am close to publishing it. I’ve even recorded most of my matches to have footage to display…
I don’t know what possessed me to check the leaderboards a few minutes ago, just out of curiosity…

http://i.imgur.com/0pvMtDM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zOdEp68.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/64fXrDW.jpg

Please tell me i am missing something here… this is exactly the type of bullkitten that led me to quit Guild Wars 2 in the first place.

ps: i don’t even know where to post this…

I’ve recently developed a new form of a powerbuild for the necromancer, and i’ve been testing it out intensively the past 3-4 days as i am close to publishing it. I’ve even recorded most of my matches to have footage to display…

I don’t know what possessed me to check the leaderboards a few minutes ago, just out of curiosity…

http://i.imgur.com/0pvMtDM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zOdEp68.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/64fXrDW.jpg

Please tell me i am missing something here… this is exactly the type of bullkitten that led me to quit Guild Wars 2 in the first place.

ps: i don’t even know where to post this…

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Nemesis.8593:

That is why a thief can carry… going to learn me some thief…

I do want to say though, only good thieves can… Bad thieves are literally able to make the game a 6v4, like the example I gave here

I have been trying it myself, but I am not that capable as most others… Veteran Thieves will eat you alive, as they notice the inexperience immediately

Though the best professions/builds to “carry” as are pretty much everything other than Ranger, Mesmer and indeed Necro… The amount of input needed to get a decent result as any of those is sickening compared to most other builds/professions

Same with any class… you have to learn it, what i was always interested in is max potential once you learn it. Like i said in my video… why would you bother mastering a necromancer, when you can spend that time mastering something far more rewarding ?

SPESHAL.9106:

Nemesis.8593:

1. I was thinking of actual damage value increase… but you know you are kind of right, it is… something… even though going glass cannon trying to slice a group of people is a suicide sentence…

2. I was making a point that the same “escape” tools are also used to traverse the map at a faster rate then what swiftness provides, and if you are stuck in combat even faster… Spectral Walk is just swiftness as far as mobility is concerned… i can’t use it to win a race to a team fight vs any other class… so that’s why i didn’t count it.

3. The meta power builds are a death sentence… you have 70% the damage of any other glass cannon and no disengage…

4. Only noobs stay in wells… @blinking targets in my video that i couldn’t even damage with scepter auto-attacks which are 1/2 sec cast time.

5. I did mention this aspect, when i showcased in slow motion how easy it is to dodge most necro high CD skills, but i didn’t remained on that fact for too long since i was trying to provide clear bigger picture.
Look what happens when i team fight… vs look what happens when any other class team fights… & 1v1s don’t happen often… & mobility matters for reinforcing locations or fights.

6. It was in the original plan to talk about it, but i cut it out since i had no more room… was trying to keep the video under 30 minutes and still failed… You are 100% correct on this regard.

As for being biased… i did try out multiple variations of condition builds which are the most highly upvoted everywhere.
Every single power necro i met did nothing in a team fight… even if i didn’t personally made sure he dies instantly… @in my video you can notice a few Lich Formed enemies, that didn’t even hit my team once.

I think you need to rethink the way you play after being away 8 months. Other classes changed too.

For example, you probably didn’t have to worry about turret engies 8 months ago, but they are plentiful and effective node protectors now. Thus, when you claim wells are useless, you really don’t know what you’re talking about.

Even if good players get out of wells, you are effectively cc’ing them. They have to move/dodge instead of clicking a damage or cc skill on you. Two wells cover a lot of ground that they need to get out of. You can make them blow dodges…which allows them to be hit more reliably after.

Alternatively, you can hit them with focus 5 or dagger 3 and keep them in the wells for lots of damage. Don’t forget dropping wells on a down bodies that can’t move for mass carnage and boon ripping of rezzers.

Same goes for spectral walk.

I agree it’s not a race winner against certain other abilities, but it’s also not a one trick pony either. You can use it to juke, leverage a z-axis, build LF, or do some clutch play. It gives almost perma swiftness with spectral attunement builds, so you can’t leave it out of the movement/escape discussion…especially since it’s much better than the worm in most situations.

Just one example…especially with spectral attunement…you can click it halfway to picking up the repair treb kit, and cover a lot of ground back with the port. It’s not as fast as a mesmer with portal, but it’s useful. You just need to try different things.

That terrormancer build won’t cut it anymore. It’s pretty bad now and that’s probably what was influencing your thoughts more than anything.

Again, you’re overall premise is correct. There is no sweet spot with Necros right now in PvP. Any other class can do your job better.

However, you DEFINITELY can’t go into PvP with only 18k health playing a condi necro and expect to help your team much at all.

If you don’t want to learn a different profession, you have to make do with certain Necro niches and think out of the box to use things that make you less a liability and somewhat helpful.

Well… in your opinion i am wrong to play a condition build, and so are the majority of people on metabattle.com.

In my opinion, and i’ve had this for over 10 years… every time i hear someone saying “you can this, you can that” as if your opponent is just going to stand there and let you do all of that, i immediately lose interest…

PS: thieves go into PvP with a hell of a lot less HP and armor and they help the team 2-3x more… due to their insane disengage and unmatched mobility they literally have the option to ONLY engage in a fight when the odds are severely in their favor aka “outnumbering”…

That is why a thief can carry… going to learn me some thief…

SPESHAL.9106:

No doubt that necros are in bad shape and not favorable for high end pvp, but couple of minor things you should have noticed in 101 games:

1. You mentioned dagger 1 didn’t get buffed, but it actually did get a cleave. It’s actually very helpful in team fights. Plus, you will often use dagger 1 to build LF on a down body, so the extra cleave is nice to take out the ranger pet or any squishy that may come by to help rez.

2. Spectral Walk is another escape and teleport…not just the worm. It doesn’t compare to other class options, but it’s probably more reliable than the worm, especially if around a z-axis that you can leverage to your advantage.

3. I didn’t see you running much power or spectral builds. Spectral attunement buff made LF building quite good and gives you much more survivability because you have more DS more often. Also, the extended period on spectral wall can be extremely powerful in certain scenarios (i.e escape or cutoff people to a node/down body/etc).

4. Wells are very helpful in team fights as well as Lich. Condi necros just don’t have enough AOE pressure, so it’s no surprise you found them lacking in team pvp…but fine in duels.

5. You didn’t focus enough on one of the main weaknesses of Necros….long cast times. You can’t have a class that is so susceptible to cc and designed to be a damage sponge, but ALSO give them long cast times on meaningful abilities. Focus cast times need serious reduction…Corrupt boon needs to be virtually instant…Worm needs to be near instant…dagger 5 is way too long…all the healing skills are too long for a class that can’t even heal in DS…the list goes on.

6. Another big weakness you should have spent more time on is the lack of LF at the start of matches. This makes anywhere from 30-70% of our traits useless at the start of the match, as well kitten other skills that include our big damage and survivability tools…not to mention…a necro without LF (or with DS on cooldown) is the squishiest MMO class ever created.

All-in-all though, it was a great job of outlining the issues. Even with the things I pointed out above, it doesn’t change your overall conclusions, but it does provide a more complete picture that doesn’t seem as biased to 1 specific build.

1. I was thinking of actual damage value increase… but you know you are kind of right, it is… something… even though going glass cannon trying to slice a group of people is a suicide sentence…

2. I was making a point that the same “escape” tools are also used to traverse the map at a faster rate then what swiftness provides, and if you are stuck in combat even faster… Spectral Walk is just swiftness as far as mobility is concerned… i can’t use it to win a race to a team fight vs any other class… so that’s why i didn’t count it.

3. The meta power builds are a death sentence… you have 70% the damage of any other glass cannon and no disengage…

4. Only noobs stay in wells… @blinking targets in my video that i couldn’t even damage with scepter auto-attacks which are 1/2 sec cast time.

5. I did mention this aspect, when i showcased in slow motion how easy it is to dodge most necro high CD skills, but i didn’t remained on that fact for too long since i was trying to provide clear bigger picture.
Look what happens when i team fight… vs look what happens when any other class team fights… & 1v1s don’t happen often… & mobility matters for reinforcing locations or fights.

6. It was in the original plan to talk about it, but i cut it out since i had no more room… was trying to keep the video under 30 minutes and still failed… You are 100% correct on this regard.

As for being biased… i did try out multiple variations of condition builds which are the most highly upvoted everywhere.
Every single power necro i met did nothing in a team fight… even if i didn’t personally made sure he dies instantly… @in my video you can notice a few Lich Formed enemies, that didn’t even hit my team once.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

NeXeD.3042:

Terror is burst.

On that note, in WvW with all stacks and buffs, I can reach an absolute maximum of 2.420 condition damage which makes my Terror tick for 1,410 with at least one other condition on my target.

Yeah… WvW… http://i.imgur.com/2BDhrk1.jpg

“Oh no… terror damage is so stronk !” Hahaha…

flow.6043:

Nemesis.8593:

Vital Persistance doesn’t give you much of an edge in PvP

I just mentioned it in context of buffs to DS and lf regen because you didn’t in the video. Vital Persistance used to be 3% natural degen, now it’s 2%.

Nemesis.8593:

Weakening Shroud ICD as far as i remember was 15 sec, and the DS mechanic has 10 sec cd, maybe i remember it wrong… but it was definitely not a buff. Before the NERF every single necro used Weakening Shroud, after… no one uses it… why is that ?

A lot of people use it, I’m one of them.
Imo it’s the best adept trait in Curses for both power and condi builds.
The weakness duration could be 3 sec instead of 2 sec, but still, if I had the choice to keep this or go back to the old Weakening Shroud I’d keep the one with the lower cd.

Nemesis.8593:

Locust Swarm and Spectral Wall does not compensate for the lack of dissangage and does not make you an attrition class

I never said those skills make us an attrition class. In the video you say that we have no skills that scale with increasing numbers of opponents which simply is not true.

Nemesis.8593:

Yeah… life force generation IS stronger… for 1v1s…

Not true. Like I said, all lf regen was buffed, that includes Locust Swarm, Necrotic Grasp and the addition of WoC. They all regen life force per hit for up to 5 targets.
If you have an active Locust Swarm and then drop Well of Corruption on a point with 5 targets you will generate 90% life force in 5 seconds, 99% with Gluttony.
I know it doesn’t scale like blocks or invulnerability but it’s still not bad at all.

Nemesis.8593:

People still don’t get that if you lose to a necromancer in 1v1, with all your evades and blocks and mist forms… doesn’t mean that necromancer fairs the same in a focus fire scenario.

Everyone gets it since 2012.
The “target necro first” mentality has never changed. Also, necros aren’t the 1v1 machines they used to be a long time ago. Today there are a lot of builds on all other classes that makes a duel with them an uphill battle for the necro.

Judging by the amount of times i got called “OP noob / kittening scrub OP necro” Not many people get it…

When i said scaling defense i was referring to something meaningful… which is also not a bug that may be fixed by the time i finish editing my video…

But yeah you will generate that life force… in 5 seconds…
Once every 40 seconds, if you have a warhorn, if you went in with 0 life force so you can actually store it, if people stay in it and don’t… idk perma evade @ that thief which crushed me in 1v1s…

More things that look good on paper, but in reality… not so much… Doesn’t it seem out of place to you that the much needed scaling defense (to compensate for the lack of mobility) is so conditioned to this one specific situation ?

Aktium.9506:

Jelzouki.4128:

Aktium.9506:

NeXeD.3042:

Terror is burst.

Them 2.5k condi tick bursts.

terror doesnt tick for 2.5k

I was referring to what Terror + Bleeds + Poison will usually tick for all together. Which rarely exceeds the stated amount. Hardly a burst.

I already did the math for best case scenario of “the condi burst” in my video… it’s right next to the 13k backstab hit i got from a thief