Guild Wars 2

DDCarvalho.2071:

Nerelith.7360:

What I am saying is, that I feel you and I are in the minority. I think the " average" gamer that likes Gw2, does Not want to have a greater challenge with their level 80, as they fight level 15’s. I think the average gamer may feel that getting to level 80, should entitle them to some uberness.

I agree that is nice to be in a level 15 zone and be much more powerful than the rest and the mobs, but I think that the fact we have all skills (including elite), all traits, runes and sigils already gives us that edge. (Also we already know when to dodge :P)
That’s why I think that the statistical advantage we have (so much more power, vitality, etc) is overkill, and it is the easiest thing to tone down. We will still be much more poweful than a real level 15.

That is exactly what i would love. To know that in terms of Power, not just health..etc..but the Power of My skills, are equivalent to that of those around me. If we disregard runes, sigils, and traits…. level 80’s and level 15’s should be the same strength, In terms of power.

But the only thing that should differentiate a level 80, from a level 15, should be player skill.

I want More races, more classes, more weapons.( polearms…nunchucks…three-section-staff!!!..a girl can dream right?)

The thing is, as long as Anet is in love with Living story, I sincerely doubt I will ever see any of that. And it seems that not only are they in love with living story, but they want us all so gaga over it, that we do not notice, that two years after launch, and no “traditional” expansion is in sight.

Traditional expansions excite the player-base. It brings new players In, and old players back. as long as they keep the level cap at 80, … there is No " level" creep.

The thing is,…. maybe many players are content with living story after having given up on traditional expansions… maybe many players rather have free Living story, than a paid expansion.

I myself, if given the option…." We can give you living story for 6 months…or…Hold back on living story, so you get less updates…but at the end of 6 months you get a full traditional paid-for expansion that includes… about 30 % to 40 % current map size worth of new maps…. 2 New Professions, 1 2 new playable races (quaggan and Skritt!!!)… and 8 new weapons…some two hand, some 1 hand, some offhand, along with … new skills… "

I know I would go for the second option, and i feel so would a large segment of the player-base. Then again…Anet must know better,…. they are adamant about Living Story being an adequate replacement to The " traditional paid-for expansion".

Arghore.8340:

I find this so counter intuitive… pointing at Nerelith’s post…

- Lvl80’s want difficult challenging content, as their end content (several people are even asking for a hard mode)
- But, you can’t give lvl80s more difficult content in lower level zones, because they should feel more powerful now that they are lvl80.

I dunno, but in my brain this just causes an ‘error’ … if anything, to give higher level players more of a challenge the content in lower level zones should become progressively harder, to such an extend that the higher level you are, and the bigger difference in downlevel you go, the harder the content should become…

But I guess I’m just entirely lost on this world of today, once games were to have fun and meaningful experiences, now it seems it’s about feeling uber and gain the best rewards in the least amount of effort and time. It’s like meaningful Human experiences have given way to hamsterwheel style, press X for Reward, type ‘what to call it’?

I agree with you. I do feel that if content were harder for level 80’s in Lower level zones, it would make for more challenging play. I am all for more challenge whenever possible.

I am not saying I want to be so uber I can take on 20 mobs at once in a low level zone, that is ridiculous.

What I am saying is, that I feel you and I are in the minority. I think the " average" gamer that likes Gw2, does Not want to have a greater challenge with their level 80, as they fight level 15’s. I think the average gamer may feel that getting to level 80, should entitle them to some uberness.

Maybe I am wrong. If I am I would love to be surprised by the throngs that scream." make it harder on my level 80 on lower level zones Anet….. I don’t want it easy, I want a greater challenge on open world..and don’t worry about upping the rewards, this isn’t about cash and stuff…this is about ..challenmging, fun, meaningful gameplay!"

PS: The thing is, we can say whatever we like on the forums, but..I am sure what Anet is looking at is, how many level 80’s go back to the starter zones with their level 80’s as opposed to creating alts.

I agree that the reason many create alts is because the level 80 in the zone is uber, and the zone becomes un-challenging.. But what if Anet reads the numbers the opposite way? maybe lacking the " How many level 80’s create low level alts and why?" numbers and reasons?

What if they read that level 80’s have no desire to go to low level zones? I know I take my level 80 mesmer, and thief to queensdale to assist the wife every time I can myself. Personally… I think that a level 80..in a level 15 zone should be just as challenged at 80, as he was at 15. But… that would scare off a Lot of players that will then complain about How " tedious it is past level 80…bla bla bla"

As I see it, no fancy title will be enough encouragement in a fight where stopping to res someone can get you killed, especially if it is possible to simply res yourself, and run back to the fight.

I can understand that it may be a far run, and maybe you miss out on the big battle. but… It’s hard to get someone that is alive to res someone that is downed, if doing so may lead to them being downed as well.

Also there are some people, Not all…but some that feel if a player got downed they messed up. They shouldn’t have failed…. If they took care of their own healing, and dodging…then they would not be down… why should that player also run the risk of being down…. I doubt a fancy achievement or title will address that person.

I know there are legitimate reasons for being down. But… it’s hard to find a mechanic that will make someone res you. There are people that res because they are nice, and no combat mechanic will be the reason for them ressing others.

There are others, …Not most thankfully, that deep down think when they see someone fall." hey better them than me, No skin off My nose… " And No title, achievement or in game mechanic will change them…

People are people.

It is a hard balance. If they go too far then the level 80 will be weaker than those next to them, but at the same time, I can understand that level 80’s may feel they are entitled to face roll level 15 mobs.

In many ways they may feel they earned some uberness.

Personally I think that the balance is best kept by giving level 80’s a little less uberness than they have now. Not a lot, not a Huge nerf..but a tweak so that a player can’t just kitten-a-kitten a whole zone by themselves.

tigirius.9014:

pelle ossa.9705:

Vayne.8563:

pelle ossa.9705:

Vayne.8563:

hannah mee.7925:

dcho.8204:

Even though I just started playing less than 2 months ago

That’s why you’re content, it has nothing to do with unsatisfying lives. I enjoyed this game for nearly 16 months before I started to feel the burn of repetition and dissatisfaction. I got my money’s worth out of the game, but I’d gladly pay for a whole new campaign like they did with GW1.

But some of us are playing 2 years and we’re content as well. It works both ways.

you are so selfish…

I’m selfish because I’m content? Who knew? I’m not asking Anet not to make new dungeons. I’m not asking Anet not to make new PvP types? I’m not asking Anet not to improve WvW? I’m simply pointing out a fact.

On what world is that selfish?

it doesn’t matter what i want or what you want , only because you are content , the rest of us are free to criticize anet and the development of this mmo can be base only for you and for ppl who atm are content , because i bet a very few pvpers atm are content.

There are (or were) way more PVEers and let me tell you they do not share Vayne’s content nature about things. Some of us stuck around to see where this was heading because in the past we were silent when mislead by developers and I guess after a while it gets to the point of “no I won’t be quiet about it I deserve what I paid for” so here I am.

I like aspects of the game, it has potential but there are some serious holes in the design that need ironing out. Not being quiet about it is the only way to get them to see.

Another way to get them to see is not just to be loud, but to stop supporting them. Cut out all that gem purchasing. After all, it doesn’t make much sense to make your points here, and keep buying stuff.

In a Pay sub game the way to tell a dev that you think he’s messed up…is to stop subscribing.

here it’s easier, you can keep playing the game, Just stop spending money.

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

laokoko.7403:

AlphaNeonic.1925:

Vayne.8563:

This game has all kinds of players who want all kinds of things. I’m pretty sure most players never post on the forums. I’m pretty sure Anet uses metrics of what people actually do in game to figure out what they need to do next.

Say you have 100 people who love pizza. You don’t have pizza to give them at the moment, so you offer them apples and bread. 70% of the people chose apples over bread. They must love bread. We’ll have bread from now on.

That’s basically what’s going on with the game right now. Their metrics may show every one gobbling up Living Story like it’s their favorite thing ever, but if it’s the only new content available, competing with content that’s 2 years old… it’s not an accurate measure of what players want.

I don’t know why they don’t use the in game survey system that we had in beta. People actually playing the game could give quick surveys on the content they want to see next.

well, I think there is a market for everything. Those people who want pizza should go to pizza hut. Those people want bread or apple can stick with whatever Anet is still feeding them.

Maybe Anet chef just isn’t good at making pizza, so instead of competing in the pizza market, they do what they are good at, which is making salad and bread.

To stretch the metaphor a bit. I would Not mind ggoing to Pizza Hut for pizza since I know that Anet cannot make good pizza. The problem is….

They don’t have Garlic Bread, they don’t have rye…they don’t have Black Bread, they do Not have Unleavened Bread. They have thite bread.

They only have vinegar and olive oil for the salad, and the salad is …lettuce, tomato… and occasionally, a pickle… and olives.

If you aren’t gonna compete at making Pizza cause your pizza sucks…. you should be good at bread and salads….

But..they aren’t. they are just…so so. The sad part is, they had potential for better bread and salad. But, they seem to be stuck On giving customers…" just enough" to keep them coming back. Sometimes if customers notice… they don’t come back.

But bread isn’t features people are asking for and calling it bread doesn’t make it easier or faster to create and put into the game.

People think this should have all been done now. Anet should stop everything else and do X. Well that’s not how it works in the real world.

For example, Anet announced for the feature patch they’ve redone stuff to give you higher frame rate in big battles in WvW and at meta events. I think most people want that. That’s one project I don’t want to have people taken off. Those people are now freed up to do something else.

If only it was bread.

I don’t go to Taco Bell for cakes, I don’t go to Pizza Hut for Lobster and Sirloin.

I don’t want Pizza, I just want more varieties of bread and salad, if that is what Anet says it is good at. If it’s not good at Pizza fine, don’t make pizza. I can go to pizza Hut for pizza. I come to Olive Garden, I expect good and different types of salad, and bread.

Two years post launch, I see a lot of white bread. Where’s the rye???

The analogy is so tired, I don’t have any real idea what your last line means.

Divercity, … where is it?

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

laokoko.7403:

AlphaNeonic.1925:

Vayne.8563:

This game has all kinds of players who want all kinds of things. I’m pretty sure most players never post on the forums. I’m pretty sure Anet uses metrics of what people actually do in game to figure out what they need to do next.

Say you have 100 people who love pizza. You don’t have pizza to give them at the moment, so you offer them apples and bread. 70% of the people chose apples over bread. They must love bread. We’ll have bread from now on.

That’s basically what’s going on with the game right now. Their metrics may show every one gobbling up Living Story like it’s their favorite thing ever, but if it’s the only new content available, competing with content that’s 2 years old… it’s not an accurate measure of what players want.

I don’t know why they don’t use the in game survey system that we had in beta. People actually playing the game could give quick surveys on the content they want to see next.

well, I think there is a market for everything. Those people who want pizza should go to pizza hut. Those people want bread or apple can stick with whatever Anet is still feeding them.

Maybe Anet chef just isn’t good at making pizza, so instead of competing in the pizza market, they do what they are good at, which is making salad and bread.

To stretch the metaphor a bit. I would Not mind ggoing to Pizza Hut for pizza since I know that Anet cannot make good pizza. The problem is….

They don’t have Garlic Bread, they don’t have rye…they don’t have Black Bread, they do Not have Unleavened Bread. They have thite bread.

They only have vinegar and olive oil for the salad, and the salad is …lettuce, tomato… and occasionally, a pickle… and olives.

If you aren’t gonna compete at making Pizza cause your pizza sucks…. you should be good at bread and salads….

But..they aren’t. they are just…so so. The sad part is, they had potential for better bread and salad. But, they seem to be stuck On giving customers…" just enough" to keep them coming back. Sometimes if customers notice… they don’t come back.

But bread isn’t features people are asking for and calling it bread doesn’t make it easier or faster to create and put into the game.

People think this should have all been done now. Anet should stop everything else and do X. Well that’s not how it works in the real world.

For example, Anet announced for the feature patch they’ve redone stuff to give you higher frame rate in big battles in WvW and at meta events. I think most people want that. That’s one project I don’t want to have people taken off. Those people are now freed up to do something else.

If only it was bread.

I don’t go to Taco Bell for cakes, I don’t go to Pizza Hut for Lobster and Sirloin.

I don’t want Pizza, I just want more varieties of bread and salad, if that is what Anet says it is good at. If it’s not good at Pizza fine, don’t make pizza. I can go to pizza Hut for pizza. I come to Olive Garden, I expect good and different types of salad, and bread.

Two years post launch, I see a lot of white bread. Where’s the rye???

laokoko.7403:

AlphaNeonic.1925:

Vayne.8563:

This game has all kinds of players who want all kinds of things. I’m pretty sure most players never post on the forums. I’m pretty sure Anet uses metrics of what people actually do in game to figure out what they need to do next.

Say you have 100 people who love pizza. You don’t have pizza to give them at the moment, so you offer them apples and bread. 70% of the people chose apples over bread. They must love bread. We’ll have bread from now on.

That’s basically what’s going on with the game right now. Their metrics may show every one gobbling up Living Story like it’s their favorite thing ever, but if it’s the only new content available, competing with content that’s 2 years old… it’s not an accurate measure of what players want.

I don’t know why they don’t use the in game survey system that we had in beta. People actually playing the game could give quick surveys on the content they want to see next.

well, I think there is a market for everything. Those people who want pizza should go to pizza hut. Those people want bread or apple can stick with whatever Anet is still feeding them.

Maybe Anet chef just isn’t good at making pizza, so instead of competing in the pizza market, they do what they are good at, which is making salad and bread.

To stretch the metaphor a bit. I would Not mind ggoing to Pizza Hut for pizza since I know that Anet cannot make good pizza. The problem is….

They don’t have Garlic Bread, they don’t have rye…they don’t have Black Bread, they do Not have Unleavened Bread. They have thite bread.

They only have vinegar and olive oil for the salad, and the salad is …lettuce, tomato… and occasionally, a pickle… and olives.

If you aren’t gonna compete at making Pizza cause your pizza sucks…. you should be good at bread and salads….

But..they aren’t. they are just…so so. The sad part is, they had potential for better bread and salad. But, they seem to be stuck On giving customers…" just enough" to keep them coming back. Sometimes if customers notice… they don’t come back.

phys.7689:

Immensus.9732:

To all players: don`t be greedy. The content you are getting every 6 months is equal to a full expansion in other MMOs. New areas? EOTM, Southsun Cove, Dry Top (and 2 pvp maps) . New features? Wardrobe, Traits, New armors/weapons. New content? this is kinda lacking but still, 1 new dungeon, dungeons paths, fractals, SAB. AND ABOVE ALL, Story wise: we are getting roughly 1-2 hours of story play every 2 weeks, lets do the math, on average we get 1.5 hours SO… 1.5H every 2 weeks on a 6(?) month Season = 18 Hours of story, that is equal to a 60$ worth new Single player RPG story amount, the only difference is that you getting it for free, and you getting it 2-3 times per year. Thats a lot of effort, i my self can be disappointed sometimes with some features that we havent got yet that i think are essential if you want to make your MMO competitive, like Housing, Dueling, more legendaries etc. but we got to think that the Devs are people too and there have limitations on how much they can produce. The only thing that they should probably do from their perspective is become more open to the players and start talking about things on development more often and with honesty.

you have low standards
this is what ffxiv gets about every 3 months, NON EXPANSION
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/c96b9e090eb60d1ebd1b89e20e582d59335acd84

this is what = a gw1 campaign
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Factions

ffxi expansion
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Treasures_of_Aht_Urhgan

btw 18 hours for a single player rpg is really bad, generally they used to aim for 40 hours, but that has increased recently, with stuff like skyrim dark souls, etc.

im not saying they have done nothing, but they are not even close to an expansions worth of content from the expansions i am used to.

That’s just it. The expansions you and I are used to. We used to demand and expect more from publishers. Now it seems we have a Lot of players that do not really understand what an expansion is. Let alone what an expansion is supposed to have.

An expansion expands how we play. It is not Just new maps, new quests, new dungeons.

Most expansions I have played included , new classes, new skills, new Mobs, ….

The closest things that for me qualify as expansion like… are the new trait system, because you can swap out traits on the fly for free, and the wardrobe. which Includes account bound dyes.

Aside from that… I really do not see any new permanent content that is " expansion-like." In 2 years even WoW added more. WoW is better at providing expansions than Gw2. Think about that for a Moment. let it sink in. World of Warcraft….. better.

Vayne.8563:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Vayne.8563:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Fun fact: People feel bored and unsatisfied and are looking for reasons why they’re bored.
They come to the conclusion that there is not enough to do out there in Tyria. “Proving them wrong” wont change their feeling of being bored.

Sure I agree. But saying the devs are lazy and they haven’t released any content isn’t a solution either.

Problem is, the most content that they’ve released fills no purpose. EotM is 24/7 karmatrain at best and Southsun Cove is as redundant as any other PvE map. You go there to kill the Karka Queen, to do guild missions, maybe to do an easy jumping puzzle or to farm some things. That’s it. The only saving grace for Dry Top is that the events grant a new currency that can be currently used. As for wardrobe, megaserver or trait update, those are QoL updates, they don’t expand your way of playing the game. Not to mention that those updates still have flaws.

No content fills purpose. Not really. It’s specific purposes. For example, people have gone to Southsun for a long time to farm powerful blood and armored scales. And of course the Karka Queen. And of course, a guild rush and a guild challenge. And two jumping puzzles, one of which is easy and one of which is more challenging. You have harder creatures there than in Orr and people do go there for that reason. Now you may not personally like it, but you know…some people play in Southsun a lot. Not to mention people farm mats there you can’t get anywhere else. That’s important too. You write things off because you don’t care about them, but that’s not really fair.

As for flaws, everything always has flaws. Marriage has flaws, but I’m still married. Anytime you do anything, some people will complain. I saw people complain about the account wallet. To them it’s flawed, but most people don’t think so.

You can’t say the Wardrobe doesn’t expand how people play the game because for collectors it does. It changed how I play the game, because now I’m going for more skins. It’s a new, additional goal for me.

Vayne…I hate you!!!! Using Logic…and… intelligence on the Internet… rarrggghhhhhh…

don’t you realize what the forums are for??? Entitled whining, and Rage!!!!!

Stop using that…smart…logic, and intelligence thing.

Blaeys.3102:

A paid expansion would pull developers away from creating things for us to do now.

which is?

Not a good idea and would be counter to the original model they set up. Essentially, it would create a dead game with injections of content every few years.

Compared to what we have now?

A steady release of smaller a large content packets is a better model than large one time bursts of small content followed by months of dead playtime.

Fixed.

Karizee.8076:

Expansions are bad. Even Blizzard thinks so.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/08/19/blizzards-chilton-expansions-are-barriers-to-people-coming-bac/

Content is good however. Looking forward to how the big projects will roll out

You are quoting out of context. He did not say that expansions were bad. He was referring to raising the level cap, and making content for those at the level cap. he said that was a barrier to bringing players back. He never said “Expansions are bad.”

If you read it in context, his comment was about why they added a level 90 character to the new expansion.

So that players can just jump into the new content, and Not have to wait to level a character up high enough to do so.

here’s the thing. An expansion is an expensive enterprise. Blizzard has World of warcraft with a dwindling playerbase.. many say " it’s dying" except… even after losing 25 % of it’s playerbase, it still has twice whatever the next MMO has.

I really doubt that World of Warcraft would spend money developing an expansion…. if an expansion was bad.

Gw2 refuses to put out an expansion. They are gambling that simply delivering Living Story, will replace player desire for an expansion.

Personally my opinion is, that MMO players expect new classes, and skills, a new map or two, new story, and new mobs to fight.

Living story delivers 2 of the above. The lack of the rest is what drives players to desire " a paid expansion".

Maybe Gw2 is right. Maybe they can keep cranking out Living story seasons, and that will suffice.

Personally I doubt it. I for one want new classes and skills. Unless Living story comes out with a new class … it’s not “expansion-like” for me. More like " expansion super-lite."

Example: Imagine if after Star Wars: A new Hope" instead of getting " The Empire Strikes back" they scrapped the Movie completely, and gave us Television Specials. Like…….." An Ewok Christmas", followed by " Easter on Endor"

Elsdragon.5109:

ipan.4356:

At the end of the day – the financial reports will speak for themselves.

You can keep telling me I’m off base on my assessment of the state of the game, and the feelings of the playerbase, but you aren’t convincing me.

I see (and feel) massive dissatisfaction with the game – and I am willing to bet that this is reflected in declining cash shop sales.

Anet isn’t going to prove either one of us right with any information, so ultimately, this argument can only be settled when and if the game declines.

If it’s just you’re massive dissatisfaction, it’s not from the playerbase. You keep deluding yourself that you know what’s best for the game and that it’s bound for utter failure that you keep spouting it out.

Why do some players suffer from " I hate it, therefore it sucks, and it will fail." Why can’t people just accept " I hate it, therefore this game may not be right for me…but…it may be right for others, since no matter how logically I try to prove to them, that they hate it also…they keep saying they like it"?

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

I think that this is a bad decision. They keep pushing Living Story, it seems " til they get it right".

I believe many players still see an expansion as they thing that reignites their like of this game. And for those players… giving them a Buttered cracker, and saying " that is dinner-like" is felt Like a cheap way out of not providing an expansion.

But only the future will tell if Living Story is done well enough to sate people’s desires for " expansion-like" content.

ipan.4356:

LS is pretty good – I enjoyed some parts of it, but not all. Perhaps my biggest disappointment with LS was that many of the events ended up being dominated by the zerg once again, but that’s a hard thing to deal with. When something like LS events happen, lots of people show up for them. I don’t really fault Anet for that, because no one has figured that one out yet.

But, it bothers me that people treat the LS as if it’s a substitute for the real meat of ‘new content’ – it’s not.

As a couple people have pointed out – LS is NOT new maps (well, there was Dry Top…but it’s so tiny), it’s not a new class, it’s not new dungeons, or a new playable race.

In short, it’s not an expansion.

And that is the meat of the issue – no expansion.

I got no beef with the LS itself really – but I do with people who try to pull the wool over my eyes and convince me that LS is an acceptable replacement for ‘expansion’ grade material.

It’s not.

I agree with you 100 %. People keep saying …" expansion – like". For me it’s Not.

The fact is, even Anet said " Expansion-like." and for me that makes Anet the main proponent that " LS is Like an expansion." for me, it’s not. I might enjoy LS, if Anetwould stop trying to push it as some replacement of expansions.

It may be a great tasting Buttered cracker. I might even enjoy it as a buttered cracker, if the butler stopped telling me it’s dinner.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Nerelith.7360:

option 3. Tell the players your plans… so they know what they can anticipate, and they can get hungry for something new…. and deliver it, but…. if for whatever reason you CANNOT deliver…. tell your players what the problem is, if it is anticipated to be resolved, and how… more or less that it is being worked on….or…. " sorry we tried it, and here is why we cannot deliver it."

They do do some of this though. The issue I tend to run into isn’t the fact that weren’t telling us, it was that they weren’t using a consistent method to tell us. Sometimes it was updated through an interview, sometimes it’s through twitch, sometimes it’s just a question answered by a CM and a lot of people missed some of it. Which definitely didn’t help. However, some of those people expect a month by month updates, which just isn’t realistic (not if they want things done anyway).

The thing that seems to upset reasonable players is not that they say " we will give you A" then they don’t.. it is that they say " we will give you A" they don’t..then they don’t bother to explain WHY A is Not coming… what is being done to deliver it, what problems are anticipated in delivery of A ETA of A or… “A is impossible for us at this time, it’s going on a backburner..or it’s not gonna be delivered.”

Now…while many will say this is too much to expect from developers that we should Just sit , and wait patiently… hoping they give us some notice of what is in store…but understanding " hey, we upset them, by trying to say " didn’t you say we would have A?" "

The answer isn’t to stop telling us what to anticipate. the answer is, if they cannot deliver A…. tell us why not.

This probably touches on their not being able to give specifics in regards to any particular project. They can’t tell us “why” (even before all this hubub) only whether or not its still on the table or not. Which, really should be fine. Ok they are still working on it, or kitten they had to scrap it. In certain cases, we’ve had this information provided, it just wasn’t done in a consistent way, so a lot of people missed it. And thus all the “you broke your promises” bullkitten arises, when in fact no actual promise was made, and an update as to status is actually floating around out there…

See we agree. If it is not consistently done, it’s not being done in a way that players may have access to.

What’s wrong with a Notice when players log in? Just a Blurb the same exact way they announce a new armor skin?

" Update on precursor crafting…. (link)"

Then when you go there, they say " we had anticipated having precursor crafting available by now but… while we cannot discuss why, we can tell you it’s On the back-burner for at least 6 months to a year. sorry we couldn’t get it done… we will keep you posted."

I don’t see what would have been wrong to include that in between the:

“awesome new armor-skin XXXXX Now on Gem-store.”

and

“awesome new weapon skin YYYYY Now on Gem-store.”

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So, just ran across this in another thread:

ColinJohanson.2394:

The simple answer is: unless it’s nearing completion, we cannot talk about it. You can read Mo’s post titled “communicating with you” which covers in detail how we’ve been asked to message as of about a year ago in relation to what is in development.

What we can talk about is what we think tough problems are for the game to solve, what questions we think about regularly development wise about the game, or amazing ideas for what aspects of Gw2 can be – CDI’s are a great place for that discussion in particular. But we can’t answer what exactly we’re working on, what we might work on next, or what progress we’re making on stuff we are working on.

The reality is things like these sort of lists of “what is the team doing” like my old state of the game blogs created expectations. When plans, or implementation details changed, or we threw out whole systems because they weren’t good enough – I left the team looking bad for making them break those expectations. I’ve been asked to no longer do those blogs and instead focus on only doing the type of announcements we’ve done this year of stuff that is guaranteed to ship in a reasonable time-frame after we announce it. Things like the living world journal, structure of content for season two of living world, feature packs one, feature pack two, etc.

For everything you’re not hearing about…I can only say don’t assume that means we’re not working on it, most of us who build the game all day play the game constantly all night, and are just regular Gw2 players like a lot of you. We’re looking for a lot of the same things out of the game that you are, and we read the feedback from the community constantly. Heck I just flew in from being out of town for a couple weeks and I’m reading your thread at 10:30pm on a saturday, there ya go real proof!

Now that China has launched we’ve freed up a lot of development resources back to get to those things. We also have a lot of people at ArenaNet and you’ve only seen what some them are working on this last year or two. Since we can’t share a road map of what they’re doing per our company policy, all I can answer is I hope when we’re able to show you what all we’ve been doing in total someday in the future – you’re as excited as we are about it.

Note the part that I set in bold. It made me really sad, unhappy, kittened off… lot of emotions really, to read that, but I think it answers some of the OPs questions, and also indirectly supports some of our statements of why they don’t talk to us anymore. We, the forum goers, tend to be entitled kittens and so now they simply aren’t allowed to talk to us anymore. Go us…

Because there is an excluded middle in this case. it’s not a Binary problem. Some players want the Devs to tell us what they have planned. They tried that. But then they had to go back on their plans…and that upset the player base, so the devs said." we cannot tell them our plans anymore."

See everyone is thinking there are ONLY 2 options.

1. Tell the players their plans , and fulfill them. And then if the devs cannot fulfill them, disappoint the fans.

or

2. Do not tell the fans anything until they are 100 % sure they can deliver.

The excluded middle seems to have been….excuded.

option 3. Tell the players your plans… so they know what they can anticipate, and they can get hungry for something new…. and deliver it, but…. if for whatever reason you CANNOT deliver…. tell your players what the problem is, if it is anticipated to be resolved, and how… more or less that it is being worked on….or…. " sorry we tried it, and here is why we cannot deliver it."

The thing that seems to upset reasonable players is not that they say " we will give you A" then they don’t.. it is that they say " we will give you A" they don’t..then they don’t bother to explain WHY A is Not coming… what is being done to deliver it, what problems are anticipated in delivery of A ETA of A or… “A is impossible for us at this time, it’s going on a backburner..or it’s not gonna be delivered.”

Now…while many will say this is too much to expect from developers that we should Just sit , and wait patiently… hoping they give us some notice of what is in store…but understanding " hey, we upset them, by trying to say " didn’t you say we would have A?" "

The answer isn’t to stop telling us what to anticipate. the answer is, if they cannot deliver A…. tell us why not.

See I am funny…if I have no idea what might be coming down the pike, what is being developed, what Might be coming….I lose interest, and start looking elsewhere.

I am not feeling the pinch, been here since the last open Beta, and pre-release. I wanted to love this game.

I remember the fun I had playing Guild Wars. I remember How i spent a LOT more time AFTER hitting level cap… grabbing Elite Skills, trying different sub-profession combinations… looking for synergy among all the different skills.

Gw2 was a totally different experience. I only have three level 80’;s and i do enjoy the engineer. But… The wife convinced me to give Archeage a try.

I get to grow my own mount. That’s right grow… as in " water… and sunshine".. Maybe they got the idea from Sylvari? Not sure… I digress.

I used to think that all I was anticipating was EQ Next. Then I heard about WoW WoD expac… and am anticipating that. Now i am playing through the Archeage Betas. And highly anticipating the release of Archeage.

To bring this back to the point. Know what i am unfortunately not anticipating? A gw2 expansion. Know what doesn’t make my toes twinkle eagerly with anticipation? Gw2 Living Story.

Gw2 does not seem to have anything that I am anticipating. The problem with that is…. when they do not have anything for a player to wait for eagerly…they get distracted by other offerings that do. Even something from a 10 year old game.

I know, this is where some players will say " can I have your stuff?" or " The door is over there." Don’t get me wrong. I don’t want Gw2 to copy archeage with it’s growable temp speed-boost combat mounts, or it’s Player Housing, or it’s Player run Justice System with players as jury etc…..

I want Gw2 to grow it’s own features that i can eagerly anticipate…but…. where are they? More Living Story?

I keep hoping that the devs will say to themselves.." we tried Living story out, and it doesn’t seem to be the " Big amazing thing" that we anticipated. Players would rather have an expansion. More Zones, More weapons, More skills, more professions… maybe we should give it to them? or…. we can try Living story season 3!!!"

I am slowly beginning to feel like the girl that expects a night out of Lobster and Dancing, that instead gets a big mac meal and bowling. Maybe I need a new date?

Tman.6349:

“Anet, plz nerf ‘zerkers’ so other builds will be more viable (read: necessary) for the good of the community and diversity!”

*critical Damage gets nerfed by 8-14% depending on profession/build

“Haha ‘zerkers’! How you like them apples!?!”

*DPs specs continue on w/o batting an eye

“Anet, please make other builds viable (read: necessary)! I want to be a healer or a tank and be needed for group play!”

*Anet: “We couldn’t have been more clear that the Tank/Healer/DPS Trinity would not be a part of the Dynamic Combat system in GW2. We designed every profession to fulfill these roles individually without the need of outside influence.”

“Yeah, I realize your intentions/delivery….but….but, WoW and ‘roles’ and “trinity’ and ‘snowflakes’ and indoctrination and years of status quo !!!”

*Anet: “It appears that you don’t understand our intentions at all…”

“But But…SNOWFLAKES!!!!!”

1. Anet chooses. I rather have them select from things they might be interested and hyped to discuss, than have a grab bag of subjects that … well… let anet chose.

JustTrogdor.7892:

@Nerelith You are the one the keeps these mount threads alive. Look, just let it go. Let the few people that want mounts say so and watch the thread fall off the page. Good grief, this is getting old.

I’m anti-mount myself but every time we continue to argue with the pro-mount crowd all we do is bump the thread.

Mostly I feel that it is best to have just one thread and keep it alive, so that we can tell the new " I want a mount" player what thread their " I want it" post was already addressed, seen, read, evaluated, and then ignored by Anet.

See what will happen if this thread drops off page 1. and ends up Not seen, is… some new Player that wants Mounts won’t bother checking the history, and we will see " suggestion: mounts? # 243,987,079,457,……..

lol..watch I’ll let it drop off the page, and $5 gets you $10 that within a week of thise dropping to page 2….we see at Least a new mounts thread.

Lendruil.9061:

A single dungeon with the depth and the difficulty of underworld/ fow or doa from GW1 would be enough to keep many players busy for months. But instead of we get some living story that you finish in one hour, and thats it.
The combat-system of GW2 is the best i ever played, and i dont understand why they waste it with their living story instead of giving us a challenging dungeon.

Most players in Gw2 do not want challenging dungeon content. While there are some, i sincerely doubt it is a large portion of the player base.

Most players do not do dungeons if they can avoid it. If they can find a faster or easier way to accumulate gold, they will avoid dungeons.

Most players that do dungeons, avoid challenge….

Most players that do dungeons only spam specific paths because they ran them through a spreadsheet.

P= profit
E = Energy invested.
T= Time invested
R= Reward ( combination of exp, gold, materials, drops)
D = Difficulty of content faced.

P= (E x T x R)/D

they do a complex differential where different values of E, T, R and D are put into the equation, and see what leads to a maximum value for P.

Most players live in a skinner box. I did Not say all. I said most. And this can be seen when Anet nerfs one type of content, and a Lot of players stop doing that content, to do another. Is it because the old content no longer pleases? the new content is more fun?

Nope… when the new R was calculated for the old Content faced… P dropped….

Orpheal, you are making a strawman argument so i won’t bother addressing it.

I never said " No changes ever …" this is you putting words in my mouth you can then form your arguments against.

What I did say was, that since I do not want mounts, since I am supporting the status quo, I need no arguments.

I wanted to have sub-classes in the game. I wanted the skills to Not be locked to weapons. I wanted a change to the status quo. I realized I…. needed to make compelling arguments to show that these changes would be either necessary or beneficial.

I also understood, that those NOT wanting these changes did Not need a single argument for wanting the status-quo to remain.

All they need is " I do not want the changes you want, I am fine with the game as it is."

It is the same here.

Those that want a change from the status quo, need to provide compelling argument as for why the change they desire is either beneficial, or necessary.

Pointing to a List of changes that Anet promised and did not deliver, is NOT a compelling argument for why MOUNTS are necessary or beneficial.

Pointing to a Long list of changes to the game since launch…. is not a compelling argument for why MOUNTS are necessary or beneficial.

Pointing to a long list of things Anet has added to since the game launched…. while it does show that Anet is willing to add fun items to the game…. is NOT a compelling argument for why MOUNTS are necessary or beneficial.

For 2 years we hear :

1. it would be cool
2. I want it.
3. Why not?

THOSE, are not compelling arguments as to why mounts specifically might be a good addition or change, a beneficial addition or change.

Simply repeating over and over " it would be cool, I want it" is not enough. if it were, we would have mounts by now.

The fact that after two years of " it would be cool, I want it" has not gotten you mounts, Kind of proves that " it would be cool, I want it." is not compelling Anet.

hannah mee.7925:

Nerelith.7360:

Don’t you think with the fact that this has been tossed about back and forth they would have at least..made an announcement that they were working on it?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Communicating-with-you

Why, then, do mounts have to be a bad thing? Why must there be a stipulation of functionality associated with it? It’s as mindless and arbitrary as wanting any other cosmetic or mechanical system to be tweaked/[re]placed.

Because there are many players that play GW2 that dislike mounts. It’s that simple.

Gw2 was designed so that mounts are not needed for swift travel. There is swiftness for that ( see what i did there?)

The game was designed so that differing professions have differing access to speed-boost. This was a decision BY the game developer. They decided that speed-boost should be a feature, around which the difference of profession skills, armor runes, weapon sigils, and traits should revolve.

That was a decision made by the developers 2 years ago when the game launched.

This is also a reason many of the people playing like playing Gw2. No Mounts.

No Mounts is part of Guild Wars Lore, and part of Guild Wars’ Brand.

To provide speed-boost mounts goes against all of the above. so unlike say adding new armor or weapon skins, for which the game has already been designed. Adding mounts would require a Lot of time, energy, resources, rebalancing of speed-boost between professions, redesigning sigils and runes, etc etc etc.

one doesn’t launch such an endeavor " just because we happen to think it would be cool."

it is a LOT to do, just because one group in the playerbase thinks " it’s cool."

Plus you will aggravate a very vocal subset of the player base.

That is why those that want mounts need to give arguments as to why it would be necessary, or beneficial. You need to come up with arguments because you want Anet to change something around which a LARGE part of the game engine is already designed. Waypoints are there, so no one needs a speed-boost mount. Professions have been balanced around the idea that some professions will have this amount of speed-boost and that type… etc….

All of that would have to be re-thought. A lot of work. So No…

1. it would be cool
2. I want it.
3. Why not?

They aren’t enough. if they were, we would have had mounts a Long time ago.

The amount of work required would be monumental, the opposition vehement, and the reasons offered for the change,…. frivolous.

Looks like a non-starter.

NoTrigger.8396:

Nerelith.7360:

SkylightMoon.2098:

notebene.3190:

SkylightMoon.2098:

Anyway im giving up on this game … and if you all want to be honest with yourself, then you should do the same.

I am sorry that you don’t like the game any more (ever?), but this part always makes me laugh, whenever anyone says it, or the similar “I’m leaving now, and because I’m going, it has failed, because I’m the benchmark”.

Are we in a teen boy-meets-girl comedy, and this is the part where the girl breaks up with the jock at the party and everyone has stopped and staring at the jock, and he’s all flustered, and says the inane thing that he says and follows it with, “Come on guys, lets go”, and none of his buddies seem eager to follow him?

Please tell me I’m not going to have to race you down the K-12.

A lot of people are going to have this response, especially after hearing about dungeons/fractals. Like I said, it snot like im monthly paying, but as someone who has been extremely dedicated to gw2 and the devs, this is kinda the last straw after so many failures. I will always come back in a heartbeat if anything good is done like an expansion.

No one is saying you don’t have reasons to go. What some of us find humorous is this idea that because you feel as you do. that a LOT of other people also feel as you do, and are gonna follow up these feelings by leaving the game.

Seems a bit arrogant. Just because you dislike something to the point where you are gonna leave the game, doesn’t mean anyone else will follow you.

alot of people have already left the game. but this will destroy all the hope of the remaining players.

While I would Love to see your source for the above, I doubt you’ll provide it. Even if many players have left, there is no way you can say you Know why they left.

it can be anything from " lack of diversity in weapons" to " been there, done that. moving on."

Saying that players left because they feel as you feel, and that because those matters you value, are not the ones the developer values, and since they do not value what you value, the game is ultimately going to fail. Is mighty presumptuous.

I can understand that you are displeased with the general direction of the game. I can understand that you feel it is a bad direction for Anet to take.

That doesn’t mean it is a bad direction, and it doesn’t mean the game will fail.

Sometimes the best thing to do, when one feels that a game is not enjoyable, is to find a different game to play.

Mizenhauer.6713:

People are watching. Someone will do this better, and we can do there. Sorry but raids and dungeons are a staple. Ultimately, this is a loser’s game with loser’s content. It appeals to the base – the common man – the person that just stinks at video games. And that’s fine, in part. He’s the biggest customer. but he’s the only one you care about. That’s why all you are is pretty Farmville. It’s why you are to be copied by your superior, and then forgotten. The good should be stolen from you, and the bad gutted. You will not fix your problems. I hope you’re bankrupted. I imagine you scrapped that big TBD world boss you had planned. You should, particularly in light of your terrific failure Wurm (you’ve managed to create a less exciting AND less accessible encounter than a proper raid.) Your most useful purpose is to serve as a guide for future developers as to what to avoid. The combat has a lot to it. I think other mmo’s will become comfortable with the action scene and refine it. But you are the saddest trick and trap I’ve ever seen.

Well, I happen to be enjoying the game. I am sorry your experience was not a positive one. I hope you find a game that is more pleasant for you.

The fact is, that MMO’s cannot please everyone. Some decision to please one group will displease another group. There will always be players that do not feel the game is giving them what they need for them to continue playing the game.

In many ways an MMO is Like a boyfriend or girlfriend. As long as your needs are being met you are happy. If your needs are not being met, then you need to ask yourself." should i move on?"

The Big difference is, if a Player decides to leave an MMO, no one’s feelings get hurt.

SkylightMoon.2098:

notebene.3190:

SkylightMoon.2098:

Anyway im giving up on this game … and if you all want to be honest with yourself, then you should do the same.

I am sorry that you don’t like the game any more (ever?), but this part always makes me laugh, whenever anyone says it, or the similar “I’m leaving now, and because I’m going, it has failed, because I’m the benchmark”.

Are we in a teen boy-meets-girl comedy, and this is the part where the girl breaks up with the jock at the party and everyone has stopped and staring at the jock, and he’s all flustered, and says the inane thing that he says and follows it with, “Come on guys, lets go”, and none of his buddies seem eager to follow him?

Please tell me I’m not going to have to race you down the K-12.

A lot of people are going to have this response, especially after hearing about dungeons/fractals. Like I said, it snot like im monthly paying, but as someone who has been extremely dedicated to gw2 and the devs, this is kinda the last straw after so many failures. I will always come back in a heartbeat if anything good is done like an expansion.

No one is saying you don’t have reasons to go. What some of us find humorous is this idea that because you feel as you do. that a LOT of other people also feel as you do, and are gonna follow up these feelings by leaving the game.

Seems a bit arrogant. Just because you dislike something to the point where you are gonna leave the game, doesn’t mean anyone else will follow you.

Sometimes we have to accept that our reasons for leaving a game are personal. And when we leave, we leave the same way we arrived, we arrived alone, … we leave alone.

Leaving should be that last step taken when dissatisfaction with the game is greater than satisfaction. It should be taken as a step because playing the game no longer gives the joy it used to.

It should not be seen as " the first step in a boycott." or " a protest movement." or " Leading the charge" because 90 % of the time, no one will follow.

Orpheal.8263:

Nerelith.7360:

why?

Because it takes time and is nothing, that just gets ASAP easily implemented?
Because Anet maybe just waits for the right time and moment, eventually linked together with the Living Story to implement them
Because Anet waits, if not with the Living Story for the right Feature Pack to implement them.
Because NCSoft maybe says them, that Moutns should be kept back as one big feature, that should be hold back for the first real Expansion that might come perhaps 2015
Because technological problems could have lead to a massive time delay to implement Mounts sooner, like various problems stopped precursor crafting to get implemented 2013, liek it was basically planned.

sheesh.
The reasons for why something doesn’t get as fast implemented, as someone might wish are so obvious as like diverse ranging from simple reasons to more complex ones that nobody of us can have any clues about, because Anet doesn’t just tell us about these things – what leaves us all again at the point, that we all can just only speculate about it, why something hasn’t been implemented yet.

The game also hasn’t yet implemented announced features, like Polymok, Bar Brawls and Shooting Range as like many other minigames, where I can ask myself also just only “why” and these things should also have been in this game from begin on 2 years ago …

Do I question in now, that polymok and all those other things are out of the sudden not compelling features anymore to be implemented somewhen later? NOOOOOOOOOoo >.>

In two years. You hang your hats On the above?

Don’t you think with the fact that this has been tossed about back and forth they would have at least..made an announcement that they were working on it?

See the last I remember was Anet saying they had no plans on providing mounts. The Colin video you seem to hang your hat on… said how cool it would be to have combat mounts. But in 18 months not a single mount related comment.

Don’t you think if Mounts were going to be part of the next expansion, (which they have not announced they are working on… ) they would have said so by now?

" We are thinking about the mear possibility that maybe…some day… maybe before your grandchildren have grandchildren…. providing some sort of mount…"

Have we seen anything at all from anet, that promises even THAT small amount?

Anything?

Rauderi.8706:

1. it would be cool
2. I want it.
3. why not?

None of those arguments are compelling arguments for " why we need mounts?"

Say what you wish. You can repeat over and over." we gave compelling arguments " except if you had….. we would already have mounts.

After two years of the same tired repeated." But it would be cool…. I want it" we still have no mounts.

Think about it.

Here’s a good thought experiment. Ask yourself." why hasn’t Anet given us mounts yet? If our arguments are so compelling… if we have answered why?" " why hasn’t anet given us mounts?"

I can copy-paste too.

Meanwhile, Asura hoverboards. Make it happen, ANet.

Nice dodge.

You still haven’t answered. “if our arguments are compelling, if they are good enough to get mounts…why hasn’t Anet given us mounts?”

You try to distract from the fact that you never answered the question? Why is it you don’t answer it? Why try to distract from it?

18 months from the day that Colin said " it would be so cool" to havemounted combat, we still have no mounted combat. Also remember In that very video Colin addressed speed boost. he said that that was not part of what they were thinking about for mounts In the game.

So… 18 months after Colin mentioned How cool mounted combat would be, where he says speed boost won’t be part of mounts, and we still do not have mounts.

why?

Gummy provided a plan, that not only took into account the develoeprs balance issues… ( no speed boost), and also addressed those not wishing for mounts..( we do not wish to see them) …by allocating an optional zone… one no one else needs to ever visit, unless they wish to partake of mount combat.

Mount combat is what the developer said " would be so cool."

he also said there would not be Mounts as people thought of mounts, for speed boost.

Here’s the thing. You guys seem to wish to hang your hats On an 18 month old video.

In 18 months if " it would be cool" were a compelling reason, don’t you think we would see mounts In game?

if anything it proves that

1. it would be cool.

is NOT compelling. Think about it. One of the developers thinks it would be cool….. and….. 18 months later…..

it’s NOT in the game.

Know what that tells me? Even with one of the developers thinking that “Mounted Combat” would be cool… it’s Not enough to get it in the game.

BTW he did address speed boost, and said it is Not what he sees as being a part of what mounts would be about.

So the very video you refer to, argues against you.

Something to think about.

Lastly: Ad hominem attacks do not score you any points, they just show ythat you lack confidence in your arguments. Or in this case…LACK of arguments.

There are no compelling arguments coming from your side as to why, we need to have mounts.

You seem to give a Lot of detail, as to HOW it should be omplemented. But None as to WHY it should be implemented.

You lable my posts a distraction, when in fact I am trying to keep YOU focused.

See You, and rauderi are simply trying to distract from the fact that you have NO compelling arguments as to WHY….. Gw2 would benefit from mounts, other than

1. it would be cool
2. I want it.
3. why not?

None of those arguments are compelling arguments for " why we need mounts?"

Say what you wish. You can repeat over and over." we gave compelling arguments " except if you had….. we would already have mounts.

After two years of the same tired repeated." But it would be cool…. I want it" we still have no mounts.

Think about it.

Here’s a good thought experiment. Ask yourself." why hasn’t Anet given us mounts yet? If our arguments are so compelling… if we have answered why?" " why hasn’t anet given us mounts?"

I’d Like to see what reasons you guys come up with.

Rauderi.8706:

Repetition is the last refuge of the person that has run out of ideas.

WWSD?
What Would Sylvari Drive?

…I totally want one of those elevator seeds to putter around Tyria with.

lol.. here’s the thing. You may not realize it, but you are the one repeating yourself.

You limit your discussion to saying " it would be cool, it would be fun… I want it."

it would be cool… for you
it would be fun for you
you want it. for you

None of the above are compelling reasons for their inclusion in game. There are valid reason that those of us not wanting mounts, do not want mounts.

We do not want this game we enjoy playing to have mounts imposed on us. We do not want to see mounts, we do not want to see the crappy culling that comes with mounts, we do not want to see the lousy combinations that come with mounts ( the charr riding a poor bunny-wabbit * squish*) we do not want server lag that would result from it, we do not want the frame rate drop offs. etc etc etc etc etc….

All you’re side does is disregard what are valid arguments and say over and over and over..( hence why I say that you are repeating yourself.) " But I want it!"

You say :

Repetition is the last refuge of the person that has run out of ideas.

You might wish to rethink that.

Rauderi.8706:

Nerelith.7360:

Edit: Long story short, " I want it" does not work. How do we know? after two years of " I want it"….No Mounts.

“The future is certain because what exists now is perfect and what will exist will not because it does not exist now.”
“I don’t want you to have them because you’ll annoy me.”
“I still need it explained why an entertainment company should do something that is fun and makes money.”

False assumptions of cause and effect and human/business motivation aside, you know what would be cool?

Charr motorbikes. They build siege engines and whatnot, so they probably have a way to make it work on treads or wheels. They’re faster than foot travel, so their armies would be more mobile. Why hasn’t the Iron Legion been distributing these for money?

Gnashblade Motors. Can’t use the initials, because that’s copyright. =P

Still Not a compelling reason for why mounts should be added to the game specifically. I am trying to help you get mounts. if you don’t want mounts, feel free to keep repeating:

1. it would be cool
2. I want it.
3. why not?

It may make you feel you are " scoring points" in an internet argument. But the thing is… NONE of your posts provide a single compelling argument for why MOUNTS specifically should be added. Yoy say they are an entertainment company. I agree. But that doesn’t mean they have to add mounts.

I can demand an f16 jet fighter to use in WvW. Hey, they are an entertainment company. An F16 jet-fighter would be fun to use in WvW.

Can you tell me why they would Not Include an F16?… same reasons for why they won’t add mounts. No matter How Much they are an entertainment company. No matter how much fon they would be for you .

While including mounts might make money, after all the changes needed to implement them are made. They will not make money, until the changes needed for them are made… and the costs for the developement of those changes are recouped.

There is No need for any of that, because if they want to make money, all they need to do is… add a few armor or weapon skins on the gem store. And they have money, without the drastic and expensive changes needed to include the mounts you want.

This is Not " they need to add mounts because it would make money" since they make money without mounts and it doesn’t cost as much to add a few skins to the gem store. unlike adding mounts.

This is just " it would be cool, and I want it."

You can keep repeating it. That still doesn’t make it a credible, or a compelling argument In favor of Mounts specifically. How do I know? I have seen this argument repeated for two years, and Anet has not been compelled.

Rauderi.8706:

We that want the status quo. Do not need a single solitary argument. Since we are not asking Anet to make any additions, subtractions, changes, or asking the developers to redesign the game in any way, shape or form….we do not need a single solitary argument other than:

" No, we do not want mounts."

The above was Just a distraction from the fact that you that do wish the game to be changed, and redesigned, you… that want major changes to the game, need to…and have not as of yet….provided, a single argument for why mounts would be beneficial, or necessary. that would be worth the time, the energy or the resources that the fevs would have to invest to give mounts.

“I don’t want you to have them because you’ll annoy me.”
“I still need it explained why an entertainment company should do something that is fun and makes money.”

ALL of the above, and Not ONE single argument from those wishing mounts other than.

1. it would be cool.
2. I want it.
3. Why not.

“I still need it explained why an entertainment company should do something that is fun and makes money.”

You want the game changed to include mounts, we do not want the game changed at all.

“The future is certain because what exists now is perfect and what will exist will not because it does not exist now.”

YOU need to provide compelling arguments,… all we need do is say.

" we don’t want the game changed at all. When it comes to mounts, we don’t want them."

“I don’t want you to have them."

Here’s the thing. I’ll make it short. None of the above is a compelling argument for why mounts should be added to the game.

" It’s fun" is Not a valid , credible, argument for why the developers should add something that breaks lore, that goes against their brand, that has not been a part of the GW universe, and that many players are objecting to for the above reasons.

There are also reasons related to culling, to added stress on servers that would lead to more lag, frame rate drop off… aesthetics..( a billion players ridding a billion Moa, running after one champion … * ugh*).

There are tons of reasons provided by the anti-mount side, when the anti-mount side needs to only gie one. " we do not want mounts"

The pro-mount side doesn’t provide any. ALL that you say while it may be TRUE…. is Not a compelling reason for why MOUNTS specifically should be added to the game.

Unlike other changes,…THIS change is facing MASSIVE opposition to it’s implementation. Massive Opposition that only needs ONE reason, and yet, has still provided many….. while you that wish it, Only say " why not? it would be cool…I want it."

If " I want it" were enough…since we have seen " I want it" for two years…..
don’t you think we would have mounts by now?

Doesn’t that tell you that since we have seen " I want it" for two years…. and we still do not have mounts..that just repeating " I want it" over and over, is not enough?

Rauderi.8706:

Obtena.7952:

Natsu.2589:

“We don’t need mounts because of …”, is the most nonsensical argument possible. In fact, it is no argument at all.

You’re right … it’s the status quo. No one needs to argue against mounts because they don’t exist. What DOES need to happen is that pro-mount people need to argue why they should exist. I see a theme here; people seem to think that “I want it” is a reasonable argument for all kinds of stuff. It’s not. Mounts aren’t excluded from that. Make a reason why they ARE needed and maybe someone will take these stupid mount threads seriously. Same goes for increased legendaries, nerfing TP flipping, etc…

Again “I WANT THIS” is not a good reason for introducing anything ingame.

Actually, it is. Saying it isn’t doesn’t make it true.
Not to get all Freudian about it (but when you’re the first to make up an all-encompassing theory of anything, then you can criticize him), but the Id is generally the source of all action. “I want” is the reason anything gets done.
It is up to the Ego to determine if the want is possible and negotiate the particulars. In this case, the negotiating begins with asking the devs about the plausibility and details. Hence, “mount threads.”

Of course, the “I don’t want you to have it” argument is getting equally played out. It’s just veiled behind “Why?” constantly. The polite response to “I want” is “good for you, I hope you get it.” The contrary is equally as selfish, and it does nothing to promote growth or fun for the game.

Players: “I want some of the old skins I missed.”
ANet: “Oh, really? Well, let’s just sneak a few into the Gem Shop this week as we promote our second anniversary!”
Players: “Yay!”

Hate to break it to yas, but “I want” works.

Nice dodge. The problem is that " I want." is easilly countered by " I don’t want."

Now. If giving you a mount could be done in a way, whereI did not need to see it, or in anyway be negatively impacted by the mount’s existence, I’d say " yay mounts."

The problem is, that " mounts IS a zero sum game." Giving YOU a Mounts, takes something away from me. it takes away from a me the game that has zero mounts that i enjoy playing, One reason i enjoy it, is because it is not littered with Mounts.

As such, your " I want" is not sufficient reason. it is not compelling. How do I know?…Look around In game, then look at the archives for the past 2 years.

All you will see in the archives is repeated iterations of differing versions of " It would be cool and I want it." followed by different posts showing How cool it could be… followed by objections to legitimate complaints from players that do not want mounts.

And..In game? No mounts.

If the argument " I want it" were compelling…we would have mounts. We have costume brawl toys…and in game relevant to the story transformations.

That is the closest we have to mounts, and… at the rate that we are going with the mount side not providing a single …credible, compelling argument for why they should be Included, we will never have mounts. Fine by me.

I do not want mounts in the game.

Edit: Long story short, " I want it" does not work. How do we know? after two years of " I want it"….No Mounts.

Natsu.2589:

“We don’t need mounts because of …”, is the most nonsensical argument possible. In fact, it is no argument at all. Here is why. It’s almost never about the need of something.

- Do you need electrical windows, or a radio in your car? No!
- Do you need remote controls for your multimedia devices? No!
- Do you need a smartphone in your pocket? No!
- DO WE NEED FASHION IN GW2? NOOO!

However, do we want these things? Now, that is the interesting question, isn’t … it?

There is no sensible reason whatsoever, to be against mounts – with the exception of a technical one. And there is none, as you already can see in game. Everything except that, can be broken down to either childish bevahior or mere flimsiness.

- “But clutter!” … As if clutter wasn’t already an issue. As if we couldn’t tone down the graphics. As if the F key suddenly would stop to work. As if people suddenly get sick from seeing mounts … Please!

- “But you would rush through this beautiful world, you wouldn’t appreciate it!” … Yeah, because by using waypoints, I get to see so much more of this beautiful world, right? RIGHT? And even if, … wouldn’t that be my decision? Do I have to savor it? Must I?

- “But it would by unfair when you’re doing …” … What? Why? Get a mount, … profit!

- “But I don’t want to have a mount!” … Then … don’t … get one?

Did I forget something? I’m sure I have and I’m sure it has the same invalid underlining as the already mentioned contra arguments.

So, yeah, as awkward as that may seem at the first glance, but the simplest valid argument for mounts is indeed … “Why … not?” Because “Why not?” is basically the thing this game is centered around.

- Why not legendaries?
- Why not Nodachi greatswords?
- Why not Ninja outfits?
- Why not flames on outfits?
- Why not Quaggans on the back?
- Why not guild buffs?
- Why not events?
- Why not dungeons?
- Why not this? Why not that?

You don’t have to do or get any of these things. And yet you live. And yet you’re not becomming insane, because other do this stuff and you don’t. And yet you don’t go to the forums and collect stupid arguments against these things …

We that want the status quo. Do not need a single solitary argument. Since we are not asking Anet to make any additions, subtractions, changes, or asking the developers to redesign the game in any way, shape or form….we do not need a single solitary argument other than:

" No, we do not want mounts."

The above was Just a distraction from the fact that you that do wish the game to be changed, and redesigned, you… that want major changes to the game, need to…and have not as of yet….provided, a single argument for why mounts would be beneficial, or necessary. that would be worth the time, the energy or the resources that the fevs would have to invest to give mounts.

ALL of the above, and Not ONE single argument from those wishing mounts other than.

1. it would be cool.
2. I want it.
3. Why not.

You want the game changed to include mounts, we do not want the game changed at all.

YOU need to provide compelling arguments,… all we need do is say.

" we don’t want the game changed at all. When it comes to mounts, we don’t want them."

While all the arguments you mentioned that the anti-mount side, may be weak, in your opinion. They are collectively

1. More than our side needs to provide since all we NEED to say is " we do not want mounts"

and .

2. A lot stronger than what your side has provided, since your side has not provided a single compelling argument. Just the same thing repeated in different ways,

1. It would be cool.( debatable)
2. I want it. ( I don’t want it in the game… reasons Posted a multitude of times)
3. why not? ( Not a compelling reason for adding mounts)

Rauderi.8706:

All that your side has done is seek to obfuscate, and draw up strawman arguments

the only thing we hear is
why mounts?

Yeah, it’s some heavy editing, but emotional ‘arguments’ that don’t heed the actual conversation aren’t ever going to be answered in a satisfactory way.

Because all I’m getting from one camp:
“I don’t want them.”
“I don’t want you to have them because you’ll annoy me.”
“I’m hiding behind legitimacy of game design because I’m out of arguments. Not reasons, arguments.”
“I still need it explained why an entertainment company should do something that is fun and makes money.”
“The future is certain because what exists now is perfect and what will exist will not because it does not exist now.”

This is, of course, not entirely true.

Dusty and other design-minded folk have pointed out the hurdles that would have to be overcome, and they stated no real need for mounts to happen. I don’t have the will or energy to recant all the very good reasons why we’re not likely to see “mounts” in the future.
Toys… maybe! Since, y’know, they already exist. With a speed boost.

…I need to figure out how to get that kite. Hm.

The main reason why Anet may never see mounts, is because even though Anet reads these forums, and is likely to take suggestions and look into them, it realizes that

1. The addition of mounts would not be seen as enjoyable by all, some love it, some absolutely detest it. To do all the work that it would entail, and impose it on part of the player-base they would need more reasons than those provided.

1. it would be cool.
2. I want it.
3. why not?

Not going to be good enough. Someone said

4. Money

But they can get more money and spend less by just putting out 3 or 4 armor or weapon skins, and not cause any disruption to a large part of the player base.

You say that many have shows from a design perspective the hurdles that Anet wuld need to navigate to get mounts. While I agree there are many, the ONLY hurdles are not in game design. There are many players that consider " No rideable speed boost mounts" Part of the GW brand. Hence the Lore arguments.

When Anet looks On these forums they do not see any compelling arguments for why mounts should be added. I Know this because ifthose arguments had been made, we would already have mounts.

The Pro-mount side needs to make arguments not why from a design perspective it could be done, or even how it could be done. They need to address why.

And just saying " it’s already been said" doesn’t mean it has. I myself have only ever seen " It would be cool. I want it. and why not?" Until Anet sees a compelling argument from those wanting mounts, it will never get to " how?" before they answer how?" you need to answer ’ why?" And ignoring the question " why?" doesn’t make the question go away.

Orpheal.8263:

~ snip~

This is a distraction from the fact that you are not providing compelling arguments for why Mounts need to be added to the game.

The side that is fine with the status quo, doesn’t need to provide compelling arguments for non-change from the status quo, since we do not want the game changed when it relates to mounts, speed boost or cosmetic.

You can poke holes at the arguments against mounts all day, that just weakens the anti-mount arguments.

The problem is, even if you poke holes in all the anti-mount arguments, that still doesn’t amount to a Pro-mount argument.

You still need to provide compelling arguments for the inclusion of mounts.

Why are they necessary?

Why are they beneficial?

Why should Anet redesign the game to provide mounts?

And saying " we have answered why" doesn’t mean you have. All that your side has done is seek to obfuscate, and draw up strawman arguments, you seek to get the anti- side to come up with arguments against mounts…. to distract from the fact that the pro-mount side has not provided arguments for….

the only thing we hear is

1. it would be cool ( debatable)
2. I want it. ( I don’t.)
3. why not? ( Not an argument FOR mounts… )

so again…

why mounts? What do they bring that is Not already in the game, or would would not require a huge amount of rebalancing?

Why mounts? Any other reason than " It would be cool?" " I want it?" " why not?"

and claiming " why?" has already been answered, doesn’t mean it has. it just means that there is a hope that no one notices it hasn’t been answered.

Rauderi.8706:

Nerelith.7360:

biggs.4702:

I don’t feel that I should be made to sacrifice combat effectiveness just so I can run faster.

That is the balance that the game developers have decided we should consider. They have made the game as it is. They have decided that speed boost is one of the elements around which the differing professions need to be balanced.

I can understand you want perma-speed boost without giving up combat effectiveness.

The developers have always expected us, to compromise one need against another.

This is One such case.

If you do not want this to be the case, you are asking that gw2 be changed to another game that you would Like to play, the thing is… we like it as it is.

If you do not wish to sacrifice combat effectiveness, to gain a speed boost, you wish to play a game that is not Gw2.

Wow, slippery slope.

It’s not uncalled for to request that all classes and builds have access to the same out-of-combat travel speed. That doesn’t mean a player doesn’t want to play GW2, merely correct a perceived imbalance.

There is no imbalance. You perceive imbalance, doesn’t mean the imbalance exists. This is the balance the developers have implemented. To request that they reverse their decision of balancing around speed-boost is to request, they change gw2 to another game.

But, it’s a dev decision for WvW/PvP purposes, probably. There’d be no reason to do such a thing for PvE. Why should my support warrior get to an event before any kind of mesmer?

Just because you do not understand why it is a balance for PvE as well, does not mean that Anet has no reasons to balance for out of combat for PvE. I believe that they once said that since Guardians already provide a LOT of boons, they do not want them being the first to arrive at a PvE encounter. It sounds as if you disagree with Anet’s decision to make speed boost as it is..out of combat in PvE. That is one argument. That doesn’t mean that simply because you do not understand Anet’s reasons, or agree with them, that they lack reasons.

Seeing that horn/Disc gets me the fastest travel, that’s what I built for. And I like the results, but that’s a personal decision I kinda wish I didn’t have to make.

Because that is what Anet wants.

Is it a deal-breaker? Nah. I still like the game.

It is Not a perceived imbalance. It is the developer’s decision, to only allow certain professions to have a specific form of speed-boost, and making that speed-boost different for all the professions.

It is Not an accident that some professions have one type of speed-boost and others have another.

It is game design.

By saying " we want to correct perceived imbalances. " It almost sounds as if these " Imbalances" ( your words not mine) crept into the game by accident. That the devs are not aware of them, and that you and “Pro-mount” players discovered it, and have come up with a solution.

You have come up with a solution to a “non-problem” there are no " Imbalances" about speed boost.

There are the developer designed balances around speed-boost that Anet put in place purposefully.

For you and “pro-mount” players to say " we want these " imbalances" corrected with One speed boost for all." is to wish to play a game other than Gw2.

There are no speed imbalances to correct. Just because you perceive an imbalance does not mean it is an imbalance. It is the balance the developers implemented. It was done purposefully.

Call it slippery slope all you want. You want the game developers to reverse themselves on speed-boost as they decided to implement it.

I think if you do not wish to play the game the developers have given us, there are plenty of games that have speed-boost mounts. We are perfectly happy playing the game Anet is providing when it comes to speed-boost.

no speed-boost mounts.

Rauderi.8706:

Dusty Moon.4382:

None of these points are ever addressed or even discussed, objectively, by the pro-mount side. They usually use ‘that is a nonsense argument’ or ‘I will ignore that argument since it negates mine’.

…Well, no, actually, some people actually provide ideas on how it would work, with the understanding that, yes, it would take development time to do so.

But acknowledging that is totally counter to ‘I will ignore that argument since it negates mine’ that I frequently see from most “anti-mount” posts. Like some of the above in this thread and many of the others.

I swear, it’s bordering on partisan levels of ear-plugging, and nothing new is coming from it.

As Dusty pointed out, it’s not a question of need vs not-need or want vs not-want, it’s a highly technical issue requiring balance and lots of high-level decisions. To reduce it to “I want it, even if it might annoy you” versus “I don’t want you to have it, so I say the devs are against you” is an insult to the complexity of the topic. It’s also such an interchangeable ‘argument’ as to be worthless for discussion.

The thing is… before we can even tackle." How? " you need to explain “why?”

There are many players that don’t care about " How?"…. they basically are saying " No way, that’s how." until you can explain “why?”

So go for it.

Are there compelling arguments for “why?” that do not basically just say

It would be cool
I want it.
why not?

Forget " How?" you aren’t up to that part yet. Tackle:

“Why?”

biggs.4702:

I don’t feel that I should be made to sacrifice combat effectiveness just so I can run faster.

That is the balance that the game developers have decided we should consider. They have made the game as it is. They have decided that speed boost is one of the elements around which the differing professions need to be balanced.

I can understand you want perma-speed boost without giving up combat effectiveness.

The developers have always expected us, to compromise one need against another.

This is One such case.

If you do not want this to be the case, you are asking that gw2 be changed to another game that you would Like to play, the thing is… we like it as it is.

If you do not wish to sacrifice combat effectiveness, to gain a speed boost, you wish to play a game that is not Gw2.

Vermil Rockrim.9756:

Why is everyone concerned about balance issues when having mounts? Just add mounts with NO speed bonuses kitten . I want mounts, but I don’t want to travel faster since we have WP for that. I want them only for the sake of visual appeal.

No.

Because we do not want mounts, and " we do not want mounts" is the only argument the anti-mount side needs.

You need a more compelling argument than " I want it." We have heard this one for 2 years, and obviously Anet is not being compelled by it to provide mounts.

You need more compelling arguments than

1. It would be cool
2. I want it.
3. why not?

We have heard these for 2 years, and still no mounts.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Mounts would be a gamble in this game that A.Net may not want to deal with. I mean, All the pro-mount people do not have the game as whole in their thought when they talk about mounts. They usually say ‘It would be cool’, ‘I want them’; ‘It would be uber to have a permanent speed boost on a mount’. These arguments do not take into account:

1. Lore

2. Balance of the professions

3. Balance of the game – mobs would have to be redesigned to deal with mounts.

4. How much time and energy goes into design of mounts.

5. The game engine would need a re-optimization, especially if mounts were allowed in WvW.

None of these points are ever addressed or even discussed, objectively, by the pro-mount side. They usually use ‘that is a nonsense argument’ or ‘I will ignore that argument since it negates mine’.

What I find Interesting is, that the anti-mount players come up with arguments for why Mounts are a bad idea for Gw2.

We do not need to come up with a single argument since what we want is the status-quo. We are not asking Anet to change a thing, therefore, we do not need to make a single argument for why things should remain as they are.

On the other hand, the pro-mount side, since they are the ones that want Anet to make a huge redesign change to the game, are the ones that need to make compelling arguments for why they should be Included in the game….only say :

1. it would be cool.
2. I want it
3. why not?

Then proceed to critique the anti-mount arguments and " topple" them… as One of them said.

Here is the thing. The weakest…most toppled, most deflated anti-mount argument, wins the day, if the pro-mount side does not make any compelling arguments for the inclusion of mounts, to show they are beneficial, or necessary.

The Pro-mount side ignores this.

As long as they play " let’s deflate the anti-mount argumetns, and not propose any of our own… we score debate points"

That may be how it seems. But as long as the anti-mount side is arguing for the status-quo. the ONLY argument our side needs is." No, we do not want mounts.. because……we do not want mounts."

Where is the pro-mount compelling arguments for mounts? Speed-boost or pure cosmetic? I have seen plenty arguments anti-…. as for pro-….. Except for Gummy’s “pro-combat mount” idea…. Nothing.

Rauderi.8706:

What argument is necessary to compel a company to do something for its customers?
They might, zomg, like it and enjoy it? They might be able to monetize it?
The compulsion is against the development resources, then exemplify with numbers:

I heard an estimate that 3.5 million copies were sold. We’ll assume a very low retention rate, after that whole April 15th Trait debacle.

350,000 people.

Say that [feature] is popular enough to net 25% of them. This is rather generous, considering free games tend to only draw 7-11% of the population.

Around 24500 to 38500 people.

Assuming [feature] can be monetized at $15-$25 per unit:

That is $367,500 to $962,500.

That’s.. not all that encouraging, actually. Paying for development time probably would run several months worth of man hours, from many different departments, costing a hefty sum. To rattle off more estimates, $50k per person, six month development cycle, for a team of 10. ( People with development experience are more than welcome to provide more realistic estimates. )

$250,000 estimate development. That’s profit of $117,500-$712,500

But it’s also a big gamble. While I’m sure ANet could love an extra half-million, it’s all very fuzzy math and supposition. Paying a small team to crank out an outfit that might gross close to $250,000 is a much better strategy, and much easier to execute.

Auto-attack off.

I agree that if they simply put out an armor or weapon skin, it may not have as much upside, but the downside is almost non-existent.

Not much of a gamble, and enough a reward to put out another armor or weapon skin In a month or so. They sold " flame-kissed" even though all that was, was some flames on already existing armor. didn’t cost a Lot to develop, and I am sure was almost pure-profit.

Rauderi.8706:

Not true at all. If the combat mounts only exist in one specific zone, I will not see them if I do not go there. The thing is, those wanting cosmetic mounts In Open world, would be imposing mounts On those that do not wish to see them.

I do not wish to see mounts.

And here we have a perfect example of that " slippery slope" argument I knew would result.

Denying the antecedent is also an error. And so generalizing a small sample to a population. Or assuming that lack of effect equals cause. But whatever. It’s all timey wimey wibbly wobbly stuff.

The discussions have not been slippery slope. It’s actually the development process. An overly simplified version is attached. Because I drewed a pikshur.

Right now, mounts are in the little red or blue sections. It might even be in the little yellow section! We’ll never know. Unless they actually show up, I mean. As a kite.

The problem is, this is what Anet will address if they ever decide to implement mounts, We are not there yet.

Before Anet decides they want to implement mounts those wanting mounts In the player community need to do a better job of showing why mounts would either be beneficial or necessary.

Gummy started from " This would be cool" then went on to develope an idea for Mounted combat that addresses the concerns of those players that do not want mounts.

I myself find no problem with HIS idea of mounted combat. The ONLY misgivings i had was that it would then become a slippery slope. And that players that want speed-boost and cosmetics mounts everywhere would then feel emboldened. To yet again press for mounts EVERYWHERE.

Many players want to call it " part of the process." The thing is, that Only those wanting mounts are trying to get into the yellow, or blue or green areas. There are some of us that would be affected, that want the whole diagram erased.

And since we are basically asking for the status-quo to remain as is.." No mounts" it is pretty presumptuous to assume you are working on delivering what no one except you and those players Like you want.

Before you get there, you need compelling arguments for why what you wish is necessary or beneficial. Arguments which so far have been rather lacking.

My concerns about speed boost mounts are already addressed. My concerns for cosmetics mounts are already addressed. What I fail to see is any compelling argument from those wanting either speed boost or cosmetics mounts as to why they would either be beneficial or necessary. If " it would be cool" were all that were needed … then Anet would have had speed boost and cosmetics mounts a Long time ago.

Lastly… as has been said… neither the witch’s broom nore the tunneler are mounts, those are costume brawl toys. It just shows the desperation coming from the pro-mount side, saying " Look we already have mounts"…except..no…we don’t.

Those aren’t mounts.

Rauderi.8706:

Nerelith.7360:

The advantage to a new zone with the new mechanics is that as Long as it is not made a part of say … trait skill acquisition… it is completely optional. If you don’t wish to partake, then don’t. But for those that do, it’s there.

The same could be said for the addition of mounts in open world PvE. (And nowhere else, in my opinion.) If you don’t want mounts, and mounts happen, you don’t have to have them. It’s totally opting out of a vanity/convenience item.

Not true at all. If the combat mounts only exist in one specific zone, I will not see them if I do not go there. The thing is, those wanting cosmetic mounts In Open world, would be imposing mounts On those that do not wish to see them.

I do not wish to see mounts.

And here we have a perfect example of that " slippery slope" argument I knew would result.

As to the rest of your post. None of those situations are compelling arguments for why we should have mounts.

If " It would be cool" were all it took, we would have had mounts shortly after the game launched.

I remember when the game launched people were saying " can we have mounts?" and the compelling reasons they used then were " it would be cool" and yet… Two years later, we still don’t have mounts. So one can only surmise that " it would be cool," is Not compelling enough for Anet when it comes to mounts.

making Teq harder is not as heavy a lift as adding mounts when the Lore is against it, the game design is against it, and a large portion of the player-base is against it.

And saying " Game Inertia" another way of saying " never change the game" is a strawman. No one has said never change the game. What we are asking is, for compelling reasons why THIS specific change…. " Mounts" is either beneficial or necessary, and worth the game developer’s time energy, and resources.

If " It would be cool " were compelling enough to Anet, we already would have mounts. The Corollary is: If after 2 years of " it would be cool" we do not have mounts….it is Not compelling enough for Anet.

Vayne.8563:

Slcrisis.6930:

+1 for dueling as always. wishful thinking though, I highly doubt they’ll implement it.

Again for the people who don’t want to duel, put in an option to ignore requests, simples. Doesn’t mean it should be cut out of the game completely just because some people would rather not duel their friends. That’s just silly.

Actually it’s only silly because you’re not in our shoes. I’m not that intolerant of what other people want…until it affects my gameplay…and it will.

People who like that are not generally the type of people I want to play with. It’s not my thing. Call me a care bear if you like, the shoe fits.

The more features you have that attract competitive PvE’ers the worse the entire tone of the community goes down. It affects everyone. PvE in this game was designed to be cooperative. It attacted a certain community. The more competitive it gets, the worse the community gets. That’s why games like League of Legends have such a bad community.

Since I’d prefer the community to be happy, nicer, one big family…well yeah I’d prefer it not. Here’s how it worked in other games where you could switch off the option.

You’d be sitting there crafting or doing whatever, and some kid would come up to you and challenge you to a duel. If you don’t respond, some kid will whisper you. If you still don’t respond and you block them, they’ll follow you around and jump up and down spamming stuff, while calling you out in map chat and talking trash. I know this is what happens, because it’s happened to me before, even though I’ve had my dueling option disabled.

Since I don’t want to encourage that kind of juvenile unnecessary behavior, I’ll have to pass on dueling.

I hear you. I was playing a game that has open world dueling, by Invite. This guy comes up to me while I am with my wife, and he sends the duel invite over. In that game when someone sends a duel invite, a flag is dropped inbetween you, so you know how farfrom the flag you can get during a fight, and still not go " out of Bounds"… anyway it is VERY Not-subtle, and obvious that he Invityed me to duel. No way i could Miss it.

So I see that it says " accept duel…" or " decline duel"

I decline. within 5 seconds i get another Invite from the same guy. I decline again. he Invites again.

it gets to where i really cannot do much else other than decline Invites. So I send him an IM…" I do not want to duel..I declined 3 times already…. " he asks." why didn’t you just say so?" I said " I declined 4 times." he says " I thought that was accidental."

…

I tell him " I do not wish to duel" he asks " why not?" I ignored him after that..and tried to walk away.. Boom.." another duel request."

After explaining to my wife what I was doing, I told her " let’s log"…

Sometimes dueling can be fun. Sometimes it can become harrassment.

No duels. SPvP is there, so is WvW… the mechanics are there for players that wish to duel.

Rauderi.8706:

The devs are the only ones that need to be compelled!

I agree 100 %. I have been saying so for the longest time. I have also said that the devs are clearly not compelled with the arguments offered, since these very arguments have been offered over and over and over. And two years later … still no mounts.

I don’t care one whit about giving an “argument” anymore. Because arguing with my attachment does nothing to advance the conversation. I’m offering proposals and solutions to stated issues. And I’m not a dev, so I can’t even assume this is a priority right now. Or will ever be. But rather than fuss and moan about it, I’m giving my opinion on how I feel it should be if it gains momentum.

What I would want:
Fair balance in execution
Convenience
Cool
Aesthetics

Looks Like

1. it would be cool
2. I want it.

These arguments are not new, and they are not compelling. We know this because Anet has not been compelled in two years to provide mounts. As you said, these arguments need to compell Anet. An so far Anet has not been compelled.

What I would not want:
Annoying visuals/sounds
Blocking NPCs
Feeling “required” by new designs that make use of it

I agree with you.

(A new zone with required mount mechanics? UGH. Transformations are known to suck kitten already. Do not want. I picked my skills for a reason, and every rep quest and dungeon that made me not use them ticked me off.)
A steep cost of entry (time/gems)

The advantage to a new zone with the new mechanics is that as Long as it is not made a part of say … trait skill acquisition… it is completely optional. If you don’t wish to partake, then don’t. But for those that do, it’s there.