Guild Wars 2

If you look at what you get when trading from gold to gems, and then compare to what you get going in the opposite direction, you will see the discrepancy. You were not scammed, you just didn’t do your homework.

Unfortunately there is no cure to person, not doing research.

Illegal gold sellers charge that price because 75% of their clientele are certifiable morons who use the same login and password to buy gold as they do on their account. Meaning the gold sellers just steal their account a few weeks later and sell that gold to some other sucker.

It’s a pretty good gig. Dependent only on a constant supply of morons. And there doesn’t seem to be any shortage of those.

One Born every minute.

Minion of Vey.4398:

It even says “projected profit” or something when you’re about to post the item, doesn’t it?

sigh

Projected profit does not take into consideration listing fee.

Awesome.6120:

Nerelith.7360:

and me NOT being 80, does not make my opinion less relevant

It does because the entire point of this thread is to talk about WP costs at 80. Just because you are off on some tangent doesn’t change this.

If you read what I said in context, you will see what i was refering to, wasn’t the cost of tp at 80.

I am sorry if what I am saying is not being greeted with enthusiasm, but… a game is no excuse to treat people like tools, and me NOT being 80, does not make my opinion less relevant, because when i eventually hit 80, it will not change.

What I was saying was, that whether I am 80 or not, i am not the type of person that only sees friends as a tool to be used to develope my character, or a hindrance to be ’ tolerated, and suffered."

Quote in context. Is it possible that at level 80 tp costs are prohibitive? let’s say you are 100 % correct. Does that mean you should be " counting pennies" before you help friends? because you don’t want to spend a Little time farming to cover the tp costs?

THIS is what I was refering to. THIS has nothing to do with my level. THIS will not change regardless of level.

Then again, I am not surprised with this argument." what do you know you ain’t 80." has to do with player experience at level 80. But it is irrelevant when it comes to evaluating how you treat other people.

Awesome.6120:

I love how the one person arguing adamantly against this doesn’t even have an 80 yet with which to experience the problem.

The funny part is, why I don’t have a level 80. I enjoy playing many alts, and i derive pleasure from spending time with friends. For me, this game is about doing fun things with friends, not about Hitting level 80.

I do like the way you totally ignore my main point. As if I need to be level 80, to suddenly become the kind of person that views people as tools. That being level 80 means i will suddenly, upon hitting that level, ONLY do things thatn help me accrue wealth and improve my character.

Just to comment. I used to play " another game, that will remain nameless." and while it took me forever to hit the level cap..I did so with a few of my alts. And even THEN if a friend needed my help, I would either join her and run her through dungeons at no benefit to Myself…or " waste my time." by logging on a low level alt, i created for the SOLE purpose of keeping her company.

This mentality that " if it hinders me, it is bad." can be insidious. It can creep into how you view others.

I am sorry if what I am saying is not being greeted with enthusiasm, but… a game is no excuse to treat people like tools, and me NOT being 80, does not make my opinion less relevant, because when i eventually hit 80, it will not change.

Then again, this isn’t about situational ethics, but a matter of character. It’s about who I am. Someone that helps others even if it costs me something because I enjoy helping. That did not change when I hit level cap m on " that other game." that will not change here.

Xarog.3172:

I have a level 76 character, and I still don’t feel any long-term financial hurt waypointing to lowbie areas. I don’t harvest stuff there with mithril or ori tools, for one thing, because that would be stupid. But if you carry around steel tools or lower it can still be worth it to mine/chop/gather, and mobs still occasionally drop higher-level stuff if you’re higher level in a low area.

So then it is reasonable to assume that you don’t actually gain anything by going to those areas, correct?

There are benefits besides accruing money, and developing your character. There is the pleasure of spending time with friends, and enjoying their company. The pleasure of assisting someone else get closer to their own goals. So to answer your question. Yes, he DOES gain something by going to those areas. it is simply that what he gains is not easilly counted in the profit and loss columns of finance, or the stat numbers associated with levelling or improving gear.

The fundamental point still remains, though, that helping out a friend at a financial loss doesn’t necessarily mean you actually lost anything of real value, since presumably it is valuable to you to help out your friends. So even if you do tend to lose money WPing to low areas to help folks, as long as you also occasionally do normal game-playing activities in high-level areas, you’ll still come out ahead by enough that you don’t have to worry about the “profitability” of every trip you take to play with your friends.

And if I didn’t still need, say, 10 gold for a set of exotic jewelry, another 10 gold or so for exotic weapons, 10 gold per top lvl bag (5 iirc) and so forth you might have a point.

I don’t have a problem with taking a break from being “productive” in a game in order game with some friends. The issue comes in that spending time with them is actually hurting my long-term goals and that I would end up further ahead if I hadn’t logged in at all.

Yes, it is obvious that helping your friends comes at a cost, and that cost is, it slows down your own developement. I have to wonder though. I am getting the impression that you do not see this as a " shared" journey. But More of YOUR journey. and people either help you reach your goals…or hinder you from reaching your goals. Your so-called friends, by asking for your help are prople you see as holding you back, you " struggle" when they ask for your help. You " count the pennies." lost.

Maybe an MMO is not for you? It feels from hat you are saying that your " friends" are mearly tools you use to get your own character improved, and you only devote time to assisting them, as long as it does not slow you down too Much, and as long as their friendship is ultimately profitable to you.

Which brings us back to the claim made earlier, that perhaps your gameplay style needs to be reevaluated more than ANet’s goldsink policies.

No.

As I said I’m not losing gold. I’m playing “profitably”. It doesn’t mean that I enjoy it. And if I’m not enjoying it wtf is the point of playing the game?

Not all is about “profit, and improvement.” There is the whole idea of socializing with friends, and the pleasure of helping others, sometimes not just with NO benefit to yourself, but at a cost. yes, it seems to me this idea is foreign to you.

It’s not like Anet doesn’t have other gold sinks. For goodness sake, just look at the mystic forge or the gem/crystal trades or the Trading Post in general. Those are MASSIVE gold sinks, far bigger than the teleporting sink; note also that I’m not complaining about them. Fine-tuning the teleport cost which many people feel to be excessive at lvl 80 will in no way destabilise the economy but it will make the game more enjoyable without having to enter power-gaming mode just to fund your travels across Tyria.

It seems to me that your concept of " friends" is different from mine at least. Maybe you don’t have to re-evaluate your gamestyle. You may have to re-evaluate how you view other people.

People are not tools and hindrances to your progress.

You should be honest with your friends. Tell them." No, I am not going to help you find that vista, it costs me money to get to you, it costs me time to carry you needlessly to where you are going. Time I could use more profitably levelling my own character, and meeting my own goals."

One has to wonder though…How long will you have friends? It is the honest thing to do. People should know you view them as tools. People should know that when they ask for your help, you count the pennies.

Xarog.3172:

Nerelith.7360:

Ces’t la vie. Not all games are for all players. I just do not understand this " Playing and ending up with less money than i started with." I TP from one side of a zone to another. I hear that some world boss is up, I tp to that… Running from the WP to the Boss, on average, i pass 8 to 10 mobs that attack me for walking close to them… 3 or 4 trees, 2 mining nodes, 3 plants to gather. That is all before I even get there. I tackle the boss, and maybe i get downed a couple of times…if i am unlucky. after the boss dies, I run to a town to repair… and .. amazing… even before i sell merch or TP post the drops off the boss, and after I repair the armor..I already have a profit.

Have you tried that in a sub-lvl 80 area? It won’t work out the same, especially not if you’re using orichalcum tools to harvest low lvl shrubs. :P

What I cannot understand is, How you can end up losing money. Unless you TP EVERYWHERE, ignore ALL Mobs, Ignore ALL Nodes… and then do ONE heart.

The only behaviour I did which actually resembles this was when I decided to collect all the karma cooking ingredients. The teleports alone ended up costing me nearly 1g. Just to get a couple of mats.

Otherwise you cannot avoid having gold accumulate.

Except quite a few people have posted saying they experience the gold sink differently.

The only other option that comes to My mind is, that when you do fight you spend so much time being downed that repair costs are eating up all your reserves.

If I die 3 times in a day of playing its a lot.

Not trying to be mean or nasty or rude, but… I am NOT an awesome player. I have played every class. And yet… I have never ended up with LESS gold than i started with, and I have been downed on occasion, so even after paying for repairs, and tp’s i still have a profit.

Go to an area that’s, say, lvl 35 as a lvl 80 char. Time how long it takes you to earn back the 3-4S the TP cost you.

Maybe you can explain why you always end up losing money? because I just cannot understand it.

I don’t lose money, I’ve already said so multiple times. But it also means that I change the way I usually play. And it irks me that if I, say, teleport to 3 difficult vistas to show a friend where the path is, that I’ve already cost myself so much that I need to find 6 random masterwork drops or a rare drop just to offset the cost. I know the game needs goldsinks but the cost of the teleporting one is so heavy that its affecting how I interact with friends while playing the game, and that’s just not cool.

The only thing I can imagine that might deal with this when you are in a Much lower level zone is, to change the amount paid, to accomodate the zone instead of the level of the player. if Mobs are dropping 10 copper worth of mats, it doesn’t make sense to charge multi silvers worth of tp costs.

Now i understand your concern. My characters are only level 35 tops. So going all the way to queensdale and teleporting around is not something i experience as you do.

Maybe you have a point that tp costs might need a little tweaking, because the game’s philosophy is, that you should be able to play a level 80, in a level 15 zone, and have the experience be a good one. If you die in a level 15 zone… which is possible… and then have to pay multiple silvers to get to the tp… all for a few coppers per drop.. i can see how that might be prohibitive.

Xarog.3172:

Hippocampus.8470:

Every cost takes time to recoup. I don’t need to address your examples individually or dispute their accuracy, because I can simply declare that in my personal opinion, having to kill a handful of mobs after you teleport is not an undue burden. Especially since walking around provides you with plenty of mobs trying to kill you, who you have to kill first.

I guess if you wanna play Teleport Economics then you have a fair point. But like I said above, I do not like catering my gaming style around gold sinks. If the sinks are so prohibitive that they change the way I play the game, something is wrong. And you can see some pretty definitive examples of that in the beginning of the thread. Comments like :

“I only port to places I can chop 3 trees to pay for my port.”

“I agree with the OP here, I was against mounts in this game but atm im running everywhere because the waypoint costs are so high. I usually dont port to the other side of the map either when someone calls out that theres a big event going on for that same reason :S. Something is wrong then imo.”

If it takes 15 minutes to recoup teleport costs, and people spend an average of 30 minutes playing per waypoint they use (which I think is likely much shorter than the actual amount of time), then the system is effectively slowing down earnings without stopping or reversing them. If it took an hour to recoup costs but people were on average spending only the same 30 minutes between uses, then I agree there would be a problem.

What about time spent moving to vistas to get map completion or teleporting to a low lvl area to help a friend? Your calculation only makes sense if people are teleporting to farm. But they aren’t, and frankly if you’re actively trying to grind then there’s very little porting involved in the first place (until you hit DR I guess).

So yes, you did pretty much merely say that the costs were too high, because you simply declared that this amount of time to earn back those costs was too much, without providing any real evidence for that. Sure, you translated money to time, but that’s not the same as an argument for why it’s “too much” in either currency.

The evidence is in the fact that people are avoiding aspects of the game such as events purely because of the prohibitiveness of a gold sink. You might try to ignore it, but that alone doesn’t make it go away. :p

Even when ALL i do is teleport to help a friend on a Lower level zone… even if i teleport to queensdale where I have already completed the map. If i kill the stuff between the WP, and My friend. I pass Mobs trying to Kill me. I pass nodes to mine, trees to chop, food to gather. maybe I run into a dyunamic event maybe I don’t. i get to where my friend is… and i help. and I STILL end up with more money than i started with.

So far each time I need a new manual I always have the money for it a level or 2 before I need it. And as I said, i do not focus or revolve my gameplay around the time sinks as you suggest. You can pay for TP costs Just by " playing the game".

You do not have to be mindful of the pennies. All I can Imagine is, you are not checking your mail for quest rewards, or going to the TP guy to collect money from sales. because … anybody should be able to make a profit just by playing the game. Unless you are doing something wrong.

I think you may have to simply re-evaluate your playstyle.

You also said someone " only tp’s to a place where I can chop down 3 trees." and say it is coercing how he plays. I think that was intended as humor, because No matter where you land, there will be 3 trees within 2 minutes walk of the wp. and at least a mining node, some food, along with a couple of mobs.

basically it was a Humorous way to say " I TP everywhere, but I make sure to chop down a few trees to cover transport expenses. "

I realize you have it in your head that the game is the problem. I think that the game is fine. I can play it well, NOT revolve my game around avoiding or dealing with time sinks, and still make a profit. I do think you are doing something wrong.

This game is not that other game you came from, and as I said before, not all games are made for all players. it is Possible Gw2 is not the game for you, whilst the other is. I do hope you figure out where you are messing up, so you can enjoy the game, but if you cannot, i wish you the best of luck in your MMO gaming.

Ces’t la vie. Not all games are for all players. I just do not understand this " Playing and ending up with less money than i started with." I TP from one side of a zone to another. I hear that some world boss is up, I tp to that… Running from the WP to the Boss, on average, i pass 8 to 10 mobs that attack me for walking close to them… 3 or 4 trees, 2 mining nodes, 3 plants to gather. That is all before I even get there. I tackle the boss, and maybe i get downed a couple of times…if i am unlucky. after the boss dies, I run to a town to repair… and .. amazing… even before i sell merch or TP post the drops off the boss, and after I repair the armor..I already have a profit.

What I cannot understand is, How you can end up losing money. Unless you TP EVERYWHERE, ignore ALL Mobs, Ignore ALL Nodes… and then do ONE heart.

Otherwise you cannot avoid having gold accumulate.

The only other option that comes to My mind is, that when you do fight you spend so much time being downed that repair costs are eating up all your reserves.

Not trying to be mean or nasty or rude, but… I am NOT an awesome player. I have played every class. And yet… I have never ended up with LESS gold than i started with, and I have been downed on occasion, so even after paying for repairs, and tp’s i still have a profit.

Maybe you can explain why you always end up losing money? because I just cannot understand it.

PS: one other possibility has come to mind, every 5 levels you are upgrading your armor and weapons, at a prohibitive cost. I personally do not see any need to upgrade every 5 levels. neither by crafting nor purchasing. fact I remember once I forgot to upgrade my armor, Just a few pieces from drops..then started seeing myself taking a Lot of damage, and then i noticed my armor was 13 levels under my level…. so i upgraded to the 5 level point under my level which was good enough for PvE… Maybe you need to evaluate if you are over upgrading your armor too frequently…

Xarog.3172:

Nerelith.7360:

This is easy peasy. Anyone complaining about this is spoiled and entitled. Part of the generation that wants everything handed to them on a silver platter with a Nice bow tied to it.

Hmm. Wanting to enjoy a game I paid to play. Imagine that. Guess I must be crazy.

I know this is harsh, but this is true. the game is 1000’s of times easier on us than many other MMO’s… and yet..people complain." I died… I had to pay for a Port…I had to pay for repairs..and Now…I need to kill a few things, or loot some mobs, or find a few trees to chop..or nodes to mine… wahhh wahhhh…"

Seriously. This game is going easy on us.

No one said it wasn’t possible to overcome the teleporting costs. But the fact that it discourages non-profitable behaviour like socialising with other players and doing things with them when there is no clear monetary gain to be had is downright stupid.

The fact that when a friend asks me to help them with a vista or a mission and I instantly sit back and ask myself reflexively, “how much is this going to cost me?” is the real issue here. I want to have fun in a game with my friends without constantly counting the pennies or worrying about how much I’m hurting my gold reserves every time I do something which isn’t actively generating wealth.

Here is your problem. You want to number crunch and run the game through a spreadsheet Looking only for profit. Your friends asks for help, what Kind of friend are you? you are basically asking yourself " what’s in it for me to help my friend?"

I never ask myself " How much will it cost me to help my friend?" I never " count the pennies." I am glad my friends don’t ask themselves." How much will it cost me .. what’s in it for me?" they just say " sure, will be fun to play with you!!!" then again, I answer with similar enthusiasm. I guess I am glad My friends are not like you.

There is No " non-profiteable behavior." there is just you feeling entitled to travel at minimal costs. 15 minutes of chopping trees or killing mobs, to pay for a Port is not something to be whining about.

By the way you are wrong. The game is fine, it DOES encourage players to group together even when there is no profit to be had. it’s called " having fun together." The game is not the issue. the issue is PBKaC.

Secondly… the way you pay for that teleport is by..ummm..playing the game. When you chop down a tree, you are playing the game. When you mine a node, you are playing the game. When you kill a Mob , you are playing the game.

Your issue is you want ALL that behavior to go straight to the Black on the Bottom line.

As I said..spoiled and entitled.

PS: The way I socialize in Gw2 is by taking on content with friends. I Join them… and they join me, and we group. The cost of the port is nothing because the ultimate result is time spent with friends, helping them progress, and them helping me progress. Compared to that… chopping down a few trees is a price well payed.

The tp costs are negligeable. The armor repair is almost Non-existant. Anyone complaining is complaining needlessly. Actually whining.

Then again, my first MMO was eq1. Back then, if we wanted a Teleport anywhere, we had to connect with one of the player classes that could teleport. And then negotiate a price, that could range anywhere from 5 platinum to 100 platinum depending on where it was. Then we had to if we could not do it ourselves negotiate with a player that could do so… have him Bind us to a location in a safe location, think of it as having ONE WP in the game, that we had to pay someone to create for us.

If we died, we lost XP… to recover that xp, sometimes took HOURS…. Not 10 or 15 minutes. And to recover our items that were on the body, meant going back to it… without armor or weapons. so sometimes we died a few times… with the potential of losing levels…. and abilities acquired in the level we lost.

So here in gw2, if you die, it means you pay an almost non-existant repair fee, and an almost non-existant tp cost that can be recovered in 15 minutes of gameplay. you do not lose xp, and you do not lose levels.

This is easy peasy. Anyone complaining about this is spoiled and entitled. Part of the generation that wants everything handed to them on a silver platter with a Nice bow tied to it.

I know this is harsh, but this is true. the game is 1000’s of times easier on us than many other MMO’s… and yet..people complain." I died… I had to pay for a Port…I had to pay for repairs..and Now…I need to kill a few things, or loot some mobs, or find a few trees to chop..or nodes to mine… wahhh wahhhh…"

Seriously. This game is going easy on us.

Just a thought, why would you port to a Location that takes 2 minutes to walk to, when it m,ight take 2 minutes to zone to by teleport if you get a bad ping? Just seems to me sometimes, it takes almost as Long to walk from one place to the wp you want to get to, as it does to TP, and then have to wait looking at the splash screen. Time saved? negligeable… opportunity costs? Ingredients ungathered, mobs not killed, nodes not chopped or mined, PoI’s Not visited, Hearts not completed, Skill points not acquired, xp not attained, gold or drops not looted… may end up being significant.
TP costs in my opinion should remain as they are. They are so low that from my perspective I never notice them.

I can understand your point. it takes 10 or 15 minutes to recoup the cost of a single port, but…so what? Teleport costs should be reasonably prohibitive, or else if it is too cheap, then you bypass content. The fact is, that running not only makes more sense from the point of view of saving gold but also, you kill things between point A and point B, which generates drops and xp. You also get to mine, chop, and gather, which generates ingredients. You can attain vistas, and PoI’s which generate xp.. and this is assuming you already did all the hearts between, and if you run across any dynamic events you get the chance to do those as well.

I am sorry. But if someone wishes to cut out all that content by TP ing everywhere, then understand, there will be costs. Both obvious ones, and other unanticipated costs.

I either walk everywhere when i feel like generating income… or TP everywhere when i wish to attain xp. But I understand when i arrive after a tp, i will need to spend 10 to 15 minutes at the other end, to recoup…

TP is fine. Working as intended. OP whines needlessly.

Just remember if you place an order, or sell an item, and cancel, the gold or the item is returned. On the other hand, If you list an item… and pay the listing fee, and cancel the order the item is returned but the listing fee is not.

OP is just whining. TP costs are fine. I never tp anywhere,a nd ONLY do one heart. So your contention that the tp cost is greater than 1 heart reward is silly.

Do what i do… TP in when you hear them call for an event… after you finish the event, look around for unfinished hearts. If all hearts are already done, look for mining nodes, gathering farms and nodea, trees. find 3 or 4. WALK to them… and ..kill all mobs between 1 node, and the next. Sell any drops. Tadaaaa you have enough for not just the trip there, but the trip back.

I do this all the time. I even get downed from time to time, and somehow…even with expensive ports in and out to the next announced event, paying for Repairs, paying for salvage kits… etc..I somehow still accumulate money.

Am I wealthy? No… But, I don’t even notice the tp expenses. Sorry. If the ONLY thing you do when you tp somewhere is ONE heart, or ONE event… I don’t know what to say.

One last thing. Some will say " then all the banned Gold buyer has to do is buy a new copy of the game."

Let them. Think of this as the penalty they pay for trafficking in the gold. $60 to Anet. This can be seen as a just compensation. This money can go into maintaining the game, and future content.

Many have said that the regular players should not be affected, and I agree. Eliminating sending items and gold in the mail affects regular players adversely. Some say " Join a guild use the Guild bank." but then, Botters and Gold Sellers can also join a guild, and send money to their co-conspiritors that way. ( The customer is a co-conspiritor…without him, there is no market for gold sellers.).

Some have said " awww the poor innocent Against-the – ToS Gold buyer is only going after the cheapest price, that is normal behavior" is basically saying that someone that recieves stolen goods is just going after the cheapest price. Chances are the Gold someone is buying from a Gold seller was attained in the first place through a hacked account.

I personally have zero sympathy for what happens to someone that purchased gold from a gold seller. I think this group needs to understand, that :

1. They affect the community adversely.
2. They affect the economy adversely.
3. they are just as bad for both as the gold sellers.
4. They will be treated just as the gold sellers are treated.

I do not accept that people that buy gold from gold sellers are innocents only going for " the best deal." sometimes the best deal comes from trafficking in stolen goods. Does not make it acceptable. These individuals are the root of the issue.

There are basically 3 groups of customers (excluding the gold farmers and sellers for a sec) that play MMO’s.

1. Players that have no issue whatsoever buying Gold from gold sellers.
2. Players that might buy from Gold sellers but fear that it may lead to their account being hacked, compromised, or banned by Anet for trafficking with Gold sellers.

3. People that would never trade with Gold Sellers, regardless of how cheap the gold is.

If you ban as many of the players in group 1, that you catch, then you further discourage the players in group 2, and maybe some of the players not caught in group 1, will stop buying Gold.

Once a player sees that trading in Gold leads to being banned, The potential market for the gold sellers disappears because:

1. A lot of Group 1, is gone.
2. The ones NOT caught will be less likely to buy gold.

I know tl;dr as it is.

I really do not feel any " innocent" buying from gold sellers is " innocent". I do not accept the " they are only going for the cheapest price." And whoever says this, since they themselves do not seem to find anything wrong in the behavior… I begin to wonder why they themselves are not trafficking in the gold seller’s product after all.’ these people aren’t out to harm the community , they are just buying from the cheapest source, and you’d have to be a fool to buy from Anet when Gold Sellers sell so much cheaper."

Lastly, giving the apologists the benefit of the diubt that they in fact do NOT buy from gold sellers. They are doing something just as bad. They provide them camoflauge. They lend them comfort to believe that they should not suffer for their own actions. Buying Gold from a 3rd party company does not happen by accident.

It’s a willful act that is detrimental to the health of this game. Saying " it’s not affecting it THAT badly" totally misses the point.

This idea stinks. I have friends and we send each other items all the time. If I get a weapon I cannot use, I send it to them, if they get a weapon they cannot use, then they send it to me. etc.. food gets sent back and forth between us. One of us cooks, and shares etc…

Sometimes one of us is low on gold, and need s an extra few silver for their manual, and we each chip in.

I guess here is where you say " create a guild." to which my responce is.." no." I do not wish to create a guild to do a work around for something EVERY MMO already has. it is Not my responsability to find a work around to not being able to mail money and things to friends. it is Anet’s responsability to get rid of bots.

That said… How come no one discusses the true culprits? those that BUY Gold from third party Gold sellers. If there is NO demand there will be no supply. And yet, these same people discuss non-chalantly How low third party gold seller prices are compared to Anet’s as if it were an acceptable alternative… hiding behind their. ’ Oh, Not that I would EVER buy from a Gold seller…but..Anet charges too Much… just saying."

People do not like bots, and gold seller spam. People do not like the effect they may be having on the market. But then they turn around and BUY Gold because they want a good price. These are the same rationale used by people that buy counterfeit goods, or things that " fall off the back of a truck."

People need to accept there is ONE acceptable avenue to purchase gold, if purchasing Gold is a necessity.

On that note.. finally… Anet needs to bann anyone caught purchasing Gold from Gold sellers. No suspensions..Just ban them, and make it known. THEN this will become a dis-incentive for others that also buy but were not caught.

No. TP is working fine. I also cannot see how you listed it for “North of 16 s.” And only recieved 3 s. unless what you are saying it cost you 12s. and you got back 15 s. so you only profited 3 s. In which the issue is PBKaC.

Thank you Adrenaline, for a Moment I felt I was missing something. :-)

I am confused on one aspect of this 15 points in radiance 5 points in virtues first 20 point build. I have seen it discussed before so i know it must be pretty decent until you have some idea what you want from your guardian. but my understanding is, that the first manual allows you to place only 10 points per trait until you reach level 40, and can then buy the next manual, which allows up to 20 points per trait.

How do i get the first 15 points in radiance by level 25? Or am i misunderstanding something?

I would Like to also have preview to clothing or weapon items on the TP. I do buy for stats, but when two items have similar enough stats, i go with the better aesthetic. hard to know which that is.

Seems since previewing from inventory is possible, it should be simple to implement to also do so from the TP.

Bump^

Ok maybe bumping is against ToS. I feel that being able to enter exactly how many gems you want to buy with gold is a good idea. Ditto for buying Gold with gems. Because yes, having to guesstimate, and round up and down, takes a while. And I rather be hunting and farming than guesstimating. Unless guesstimating gave xp :P ( just teasing)

The point I was getting at is… That it matters little to not at all to me, whether bots affect the market, marginally, or not at all. It is against the rules. As far as i am concerned, that is that. Anyone that wants or tries to get into the whole " dfoes it really affect the economy as much as others say" Is really missing the point. They also provide cover to those that encourage the breaking of said rules.

I do not care that people cannot afford to, or do not wish to pay the rate on the sanctioned market for in game gold. If someone is caught buying gold from a third party seller, and is caught, slap them with a week’s suspension, and a warning. If they get caught a second time, and therefore establish a pattern of violations… perma-ban them.

Any discussion about " the real affects of botting in MMO economies" totally disregards that what is being discussed is a violation of the rules we agreed to follow when we signed on to the game.

If you find that it is cheaper to break the rules, then do so… but if you get caught , and have to face consequences, i for one will not shed a tear. I have been playing MMO’s since Eq1. Never did I feel the need to buy gold from third parties. Anyone that does, and gets caught deserves what they get.

I have read this thread, and while I see many saying " How much botts are affecting the market is questionable. " and " A player can get more gold from third parties, than from the purchse of gems." All tend to forget that such traddees break ToS. This is the same mentality people use when buying a rolex for 30% market price. It is either fake, or fell off some truck.

Either way, as far as i am concerned it is not about whether the effects of bots on the market, both the trade post market’s prices tanking, and the gem prices crashing or not, is substantial, or minor. it is that the mere existence of bots in the game violates ToS. Even if the price of one item drops from 500g, to 499g99s99c, because of bot activity, it is TOO much of an influence, as far as I am concerned.

Anyone that tries to say " There is zero proof that bots are affecting the economy negatively" just make me question if maybe they themselves DEFEND bots because they themselves USE bots.

Kind of Like the guy that argues " Counterfeit Rolexes are so few, they do not affect the real Rolex market" may not be selling fake rolexes, but he may be wearing one.

Lastly: The real source of the problem needs to be addressed with week long suspensions at the least, and maybe perma-banning for multiple offences.

I speak of players that buy gold from third parties not sanctioned by ArenaNet. As far as I am concerned, these players are the reason the bots are there. There players are the reason the third party gold sellers sell gold. The easiest way to deal with both bots, and with gold sellers is to scare the players buying their ultimate product.

The Gold sellers do not fear banning because all they need to do is just spend $60 on another box. But… if you suspend an account for a week, and warn a Player, that player is a lot less likely to trade in in-game gold again. And maybe they cry " My account got hacked." What do they say the second time, and the third?

Eventually ban the players using bots, or trading in in game gold from 3rd parties. These are players that won’t be missed.

Wazabi.1439:

@Nerelith.7360
Yes, I agree with that. I believes it stems from familiarity with an old trading mechanism. In this new mechanism, some people are finding it hard, and have to learn it all over again. I do see TP as path to wealth, but you need more knowledge and effort to make a profit out of it. It’s a big ego hit for people who were able to make money from other TP mechanism to have to re-learn to adapt to this new environment. But for any real traders or people with background in stock investment, this is just a small change of environment which they will adapt quickly.

Best advice I can think of to new players is what you’ve said earlier. Don’t expect to get rich crafting and playing the market. Be prepared to spend some time researching to be good at it.

Wazabi, it was never my intent to say that wealth was not possible. I am sorry if you misunderstood. What I meant was that it seems to me that while it is possible for people with more knowledge and experience, that are willing to put in the work to make a fortune just playing the market , it is harder.

There is no instant " Buy mats from market, combine, add 20 % profit margin, sell to willing buyers." in gw2. Part of it may be that since it IS a new game. As you said, we do not yet know what a sword of sheer awesomness at demonslaying + 50 is really worth.

We do know what the market this moment says it’s value is… take what a merchant pays for it.. + 1 copper. lol… I believe that if anyone is going to actually make money at the market they need to see what it is people need, and trade in those items. not in what sells a Lot of. 20,000,000 selling that aesome green will be selling for less than 1 person selling a much saught after blue for example.

While things do have an innate worth, that worth has more to do with supply and demand than it has to do with the cost of production. Some items can cost copper to make and sell for silver… others vice versa.

PS. You keep saying mets… what are mets? the only Mets i know play in a babeball park in Queens. :-)

I can see how a lot of people look at the price floor of 1c above merchant prices and has a panic attack about the economy. I do have to disagree that speculators are benefiting from this though. Speculators do best in markets with high fluctuation. Where there is little to no fluctuation there is little profit in speculation… last week price for commodity x was vendor price + 1 copper, this week price for commodity x is… vendor price + 1 copper. Unless the vendor price fluctuates, market price has not fluctuated.

I think that in general many people are making a big deal out of nothing. This game treats different parts of the MMO staples and says " why do we have to do things that way?" look at dynamic questing without needing to speak to quest givers. Many see this as something good.

I think that the intent as someone mentioned is, crafting is not intended as a road to riches, but as a rode to self sufficiency.

Think about it, every other mmo.. you can only have x number of crafting professions. The moment you want to try another… you need to forget one, to learn the new one. If you ever decide to go back to it… you have to start over. Gw2, said “That isn’t fun. Let them keep what they learned and just charge a small fee to pick up the old again.” And … many believe this is something good.

If you look at crafting as a source of wealth, you might believe that the trading post is working against you, and you might be right.

I look at it as my friend in helping me craft myself and my friends what we would like. Fact.. you can attain as drops what you might need. But drops have a randomness, maybe you don’t want + power, maybe you want + conditions… then crafted items are what you need..but… you can craft them yourselves…or buy them on the Trading post cheap. You can also sell what you are not looking for, ( + power maybe) and buy what you do want ( + conditions maybe.), and many see this as something good.

I happen to think that this is also something good. Then again, I prefer to be self sufficient, and i don’t see the trading post as a path to wealth, just a source of convenient goods I can use to …craft..for self use, and the use of friends.

The trading post is fine… it’s the speculators that need to adjust.

There is nothing wrong with the TP. I will speak from personal experience. I was out with a friend, I was level 12, he was level 40. And I told him at some point that I couldn’t wait to get to level 20, so i could start using the 10 trait abilities. For me, the most valuable thing was getting as fast as possible to level 20, So here I have a level 40 Thief, and he has taken me under his wing. what do i do when he is investing time in my6 progress, when My bags fill up? There are only so many collectibles in my bag.

After I send all my collectibles to the bank, I start picking up more loot, and since not all loot is collectibles… x amount of collectibles becomes x-y collectibles where y is the amount of non-collectibles that cannot be sent to the bank.

My friend’s time has value, Running back to the vendor takes time he could be using to help me level, and takes time he could be teaching me How to play my thief. THESE are what matter most to me. So I get to where ALL my bags are filled with Non-collectible Items, and I am surrounded by dead centaurs dropping stuff that sells for 1 silver each, at level 12, this is amazing. Now.. to walk away, and run to a vendor..LOSES me ALL the items on the floor, and to run back to vendor loses me time. Time spend running to a vendor and back, is time I am not killing, levelling, learning, and looting. So what do i do? I place it on the TP.

Now if I have a frosty hammer of demon slaying + 24. And some 200 people have posted it for 1 silver, when the merchant pays 99 copper. What do I gain… by posting it at 1 silver and 1 copper? I actually LOSE the listing fee. because My item will never sell. Posting it HIGHER than the rest of the market loses me the listing fee.

On the other hand posting it AT the price everyone is offering even if it is 1 copper above the vendor – 10 %, GAINS me the vendor fee – listing fee- 10 %. That is PURE profit. How so? because when i am out to Level… anything that drops is a GIFT for me.

So selling an item that dropped , and is a gift to me, even if it ONLY puts vendor – 15 % in my pocket, is a GAIN of vendor – 15 %. Posting items ieven 1 copper more than the rest of the mob is selling for LOSES me the listing fee, and running to the merchant … wastes the time I COULD be refilling my bags.

If in the time It takes to run back to the merchant and back, i can refill ALL my bag space even ONCE, running to the merchant actually LOSES me money.

1. Running back to the merchant Loses me the drops i MIGHT have gotten in the time it takes me to get to him and back.

2. posting on the TP at even 1 copper higher than the mob has decided to post at… loses me the listing fee.

Only…

3. Posting it for the price the highest buyer is offering me WINS me the Buyer price – listing fee – TP cut.

3. is the Only option that actually leads to a guaranteed profit. These " idiots".. are making money.. less money per sale… but they are making MORE sales.

Korath.7402:

It’s because 1c above the vendor price is the minimum price allowed in the brokerage for an item. I’m sure if ANet removed that restriction thousands of fools would drive down prices even further.

This is so true. Fact is that on World of Warcraft Auctioneer would look for items that were selling for below the vendor price, as money making oppurtunities.

If Gloves sold to the vendor for 50 silver, and it was on the Auction House for 35 silver, it would let you know, you buy at the AH,. sell to vendor, make a profit.

As I see it, this is mostly a product of two things.

1. Player Ignorance.
2. Trading House not being available for a week or so.

The former has been addressed, but the latter barely mentioned. Supply and Demand. Many people started crafting day 1, then the Trading post as unavailable. An inventory of items accrued in the bank.. as space deminished.. the need to sell grew. Just to clear bank space. So when the Trading House finally opened it led to a deluge of products dumped on the marketplace… people got caught up in the " Must undercut to sell" fever, and the ignorance of the house cut, they think " 1 copper above merchant is 1 copper more in my pocket.

Once people learn…if they learn… as the back inventory is bought up… maybe prices will become sane."