Guild Wars 2

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

Nerelith.7360:

I think this is the OP seeking and finding numbers to back his personal desire. That he is Playing a popular game.

This sounds to me, a lot like you are projecting what “you think” is my motivation, in order to fulfill your need to be right in your debate with Vayne.

Unfortunately, you are wrong on both counts.

One of my respected colleagues in the industry posted the original article on LinkedIn, without specific reference to any of the games on either the Raptr or Overwolf lists.

I am a fan of Guild Wars 2, and as Vayne astutely observes, quite sick of wading through streams of anecdotal insults which have become “fact” about the game, by repetition and not by truth.

He is also correct in his assumption that I posted this, not to justify my own interest in the game, but to spread some positive “fact” about the game.

The forum falls to the lowest common denominator because of the bullies who keep repeating their BS drive the pragmatic contributors to give up and come back only to read patch notes.

This is why it has been stated repeatedly by developers, in this forum, that the apparent public consensus in the forums on any particular topic does in no way guarantee representation by the broader audience. There is a clear bias.

There is a clear bias in the"Overwolf" poll: it does not reflect games which do not lend themselves to a need for conference-call communication tools.

As for the other various attempts to discredit the information I offered up… i’m rolling my eyes.

Except me and Vayne are not debating. We are in agreement.

Speaking of which, if I misread your motivation… I apologize. What was your motivation? See…If I am enjoying a game, I don’t look for statistics to post that say " Look the game is doing great." I Look at the game. I see where it is weak in my opinion.

Sometimes…. saying " Gw2 is #2 on such and such a list .. means it’s doing great" is Not as helpful as saying…" Imo…. Gw2 has awesome graphics and gameplay…it is enjoyable..the feeling that at least in PvE I can just grab a ton of cool skills that I enjoy using and still be viable… but it is weak in… yadda yadda yadda."

At no time did I seek to be argumentative. But it seems I came across that way.

PS I was not seeking to discredit the information you provided. Just hoped to place it in context.

Just caught something. it is not your contention that I am among those bullies hopefully? Just want to clear that up.

Vayne.8563:

I think some of us are just tired of seeing people saying the game is dead, when it’s pretty obviously not the case. It may or may not be popular. That’s relative anyway. But one thing it’s not is dead.

I agree with you. I don’t even think Guild wars is dead. The servers are up, people play it. Not dead.

Gw2 may not be fulfilling it’s Potential, but in many ways it is headed in the right general direction. I think free trat switching on the fly whenever you wish out of combat was an awesome idea. And being able to unlock the traits by exploring content… an awesome idea. I think some of the ways to unlock the traitds need to be changed, but that’s my opinion.

No this game is Nowhere near dead.

I think it’s Just some people came to play the game, and it lacks what they want in it. Whatever element they enjoyed In the last few MMO’s they Played, it’s Not here. So they may have decided " It’s gonna fail." and start saying it over and over, wishing it to be true so they can dsay " see? I said you had to add… bla bla bla.. and because Bla bla bla was never in the game….it failed."

Substance E.4852:

Some classes are harder to level than others and the new trait system means you don’t inherently have access to traits that can make all the difference in lower level fights.

I disagree. IMO traits do not really sway fights til you have enough to make a real difference in your chosen stat preferences. Which to me is Not Lower level.

I Played before and after the 4/15 patch, and I have to be honest. As much as I Liked having trait points to play with…. The 10 to 30 levels do not feel much difference from before the patch. The trait points themselves make little difference.

It isn’t until you slot at 36 to 60 or so that traits really matter. Then again, maybe 36 to 60 is the new " lower level"?

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

DJRiful.3749:

All statistics online social media website are all over the places. The only reliable source if you ask Anet and each game studios about the population active players. That’s the proper way to measure it.

Not 3rd party software, not even Steam that has 30million+ accounts with 6-7mil active peak time.

Why?

1. Not everyone use Steam to launch GW2.
2. Not everyone use Raptr with GW2.
3. Not everyone use Overwolf with GW2.
4. Not everyone use GW2.exe launcher to start the game.
5. There are at least freaking 4 examples way to launch GW2.

X. How is this reliable statistic? It’s all over the places.

Me. I use SweetFX Configurator to launch GW2.

Think of it as polling though. People run political polls and poll 1000 people to get an idea of the trends, and usually those polls are accurate.

Except there is a science to polling. The Pollers know how to pick people that are an accurate representation of the specific demographics they are tryuing to determine information from.

Whether the Demographic is … Democrats and Republicans, or… Boxer vs Briefs… etc. When a Poll is made the pollers are not dialing random numbers. Which is what Overwolf’s numbers basically are.

Random in the sense that other than " happened to hear of and prefer overwolf to some other app…" there is no scientific basis to how the players were selected. The Players selected themselves so cannot really be said to be representative of the whole.

Right the players weren’t selected at all and it’s a much much bigger sampling size than most polls. When you have a sample size of 1000, you’d better pick carefully. The sample size here is the size of those who run overwolf in the background. I’m pretty sure it’s more than 1000 people. Same with the sample size of Raptr.

Again, it won’t give us numbers, but it should give us trends….which is what I’m looking at. It’s the other information people keeping ignoring that this is backing up.

Basically, there’s no evidence at all the game is dead. There’s circumstantial evidence that it’s not.

I think this is the OP seeking and finding numbers to back his personal desire. That he is Playing a popular game.

Now, I happen to find that Gw2 is fun to play. And I always see Plenty of people around me. Sometimes it’s good…sometimes it’s bad… ( kitten someone ran off with My banner… again!).

But I can see how people might think these charts are meaningful. But I do see what you mean…. if 2,000,000 people ran raptr and gw2… and 2 months later only 100 do.. it’s hard to believe that 1,999,900 Uninstalled raptor.

So yes, for trends it might be a good metric.

Vayne.8563:

DJRiful.3749:

All statistics online social media website are all over the places. The only reliable source if you ask Anet and each game studios about the population active players. That’s the proper way to measure it.

Not 3rd party software, not even Steam that has 30million+ accounts with 6-7mil active peak time.

Why?

1. Not everyone use Steam to launch GW2.
2. Not everyone use Raptr with GW2.
3. Not everyone use Overwolf with GW2.
4. Not everyone use GW2.exe launcher to start the game.
5. There are at least freaking 4 examples way to launch GW2.

X. How is this reliable statistic? It’s all over the places.

Me. I use SweetFX Configurator to launch GW2.

Think of it as polling though. People run political polls and poll 1000 people to get an idea of the trends, and usually those polls are accurate.

Except there is a science to polling. The Pollers know how to pick people that are an accurate representation of the specific demographics they are tryuing to determine information from.

Whether the Demographic is … Democrats and Republicans, or… Boxer vs Briefs… etc. When a Poll is made the pollers are not dialing random numbers. Which is what Overwolf’s numbers basically are.

Random in the sense that other than " happened to hear of and prefer overwolf to some other app…" there is no scientific basis to how the players were selected. The Players selected themselves so cannot really be said to be representative of the whole.

Jski.6180:

Beyond say WoW seeing mmorpgs on a “best of pc” list is a bit odd.

But ya this game is far from dead GW1 is a “dead” game because the makers are not adding in new content a lot of the single players games die once they are out or after the game makers is done making dlc etc.. So GW2 is still good and alive being that the game makers are still added content at the rate they are is proof enough alone.

Guild Wars is not a dead game because the servers are still active, and players are playing it.

While the game is On life support, it is not dead. A dead game had the servers turned off. City of Heroes is a dead game, Star Wars Galaxies is a dead Game… They had the servers shut down…that is dead.

As long as :

1. Servers are still up.
2. Players still play the game.

The Game is not dead.

I find it Intriguing how a difference in perspective can actually alter what one thinks about things.

We have here the OP suggesting that because some In game app has Gw2 rated at # 7, that it is not dead. But other players say that World of Warcraft that is number 5… is dead.

Personally, I have never found these ratings to be of any value. Since we have no idea what percentage of the playerbase that runs each game runs these apps.

Players that recieve confirmation bias, based On their beliefs will either say they are a good measure, while others will say they aren’t. There is no reason to believe that the same % of players that play WoW run this as the % of players that run Gw2.

Since there might be unmeasured disparity, trying to comapre Gw2 on Overwhatever, with WoW or LoL, etc … cannot really indicate anything about comparative total player populations.

All it means is … x number of players Played Gw2, and also ran the app or apps.

Leo.2641:

Nerelith.7360:

Leo.2641:

No sir, your copy and paste is a distraction and all your doing is bumping and taking space from the topic when other people can come in and actually put a for or against counter argument.

First I am not a sir, I am a Ma’am.

Secondly I understand you dislike the nature of this discussion. I Understand you want Players against mounts to provide compelling arguments that then you can poke holes at. So you can distract from the fact that you are not posting compelling arguments for speed Boost mounts.

YOU..want the game developers to change the game, YOU want them to devote time, energy, and resources to implement speed-boost mounts.

YOU need to provide compelling arguments.

All I… need to say to counter your argument demanding I make compelling arguments against is:

" I am content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts, therefore since I am not trying to compel Anet to change the game in any way shape or form, I need not provide any compelling argument"

No sir, you are a troll provide compelling argument then I will take you serious

Agian. I am not a sir. I am female.

Troll doesn’t mean" doesn’t agree with me."

and…

I do not need to provide a compelling argument against. Sine I am not trying to compel Anet to do anything they are not already doing. YOU need to provide compelling arguments for why mounts are a necessary, or a beneficial inclusion that are worth the time, energy, and resources of the developers to drastically redesign the game for their inclusion.

Sadly for you, this is not an equal proposition with both sides having to make compelling arguments for their position.

YOU need to provide compelling arguments, which you still have not done… and still refuse to do. Don’t think I have not noticed that this is just more distraction from the fact that you are not providing compelling arguments for your proposition.

All I need to say is.." I am content with Anet’s continuing decision to not provide speed-boost mounts." Because I am not asking anet to make any changes.

Example…

Anet provides way-points. If one group wanted more way-points than are currently provided, and another group wanted less, then EACH needs to make compelling arguments, since each wants Anet to change the game from what it currently is.

If a third group chimes in and says " We don’t want any change at all, we are content with the number of way-points that Anet is providing.." then that group need not provide any compelling argument whatsoever. Because they are not advocating for any change whatsoever.

I can understand that you dislike the nature of this discussion, and the burden that it places On those seeking mounts and only on those seeking mounts.

But railing against it, doesn’t exempt you from it.

Where are your compelling arguments to prove that the inclusion of speed-boost mounts are beneficial to the game, and worth the developers Putting time energy, and resources into their implementation, without negatively impacting the players that do not wish Mounts in the game?

Orpheal tl;dr

My issue with cosmetics Only mounts is…I need to see them. I do not wish to see them.

Therefore, They need to be Invisible for me. HOW this comes about is up to the developers.

This means Not just that I do not see them, but that to me, it looks as if mounts did not exist in game. That means the animations on MY side must look as if they are running without a Mount.

Next none of this should draw time, energy resources from anything else.

The complaints against speed boost mounts are on the thread to be read, and revolve around:

1. balance
2. the fact that to implement speed boost mounts would require a major redesign of the game.

I’ll ignore your patronizing tone , in the interest of discussing.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Rauderi.8706:

Nerelith.7360:

make a compelling argument for why Mounts are beneficial to the game…

Money. That’s a compelling enough reason for ANet to do it. To invest (time and money) in development. If they expect a large enough return on cosmetic mounts they’ll do it.
It doesn’t have to be compelling for you, but for ANet.

…that doesn’t even seem to read these forums anyway. So joke’s on us. Haw. But seriously, if enough people pull a “shut up and take my money” about it, they’ll do it. Whatevs. I’m going to Schrodinger’s cat this thing and both care and not care until it actually happens or not happens.

As for “play the game as it is”, I generally do. That doesn’t mean the game can’t be better, which is what I push for. Which is why games change and innovate. “Play it as it is” is a push for stagnation and, ultimately, game death. (Unless they can crank out some really good story, which would be compelling enough to come back for, even with boringly unchanged characters.)

Game design has unintended consequences all the time. That’s why they get patched and improved. Usually. The Trait debacle is bad and they should feel bad. So yes, things get balanced, then rebalanced, then rebalanced again. Trait, skills, and gear change over time, then are removed for replacements. It’s already happened a few times.

Being “forced” into travel-boosting builds and gear loadouts is not an example of “build diversity.” It’s a limp-wristed compromise to something that players should have a more generalized access. While I’m not advocating mounts and the fuss of huge NPC-blocking mammoths kitten WoW) for the sake of decoration, it’s about time that ANet sincerely investigates the benefit of balancing for travel.

The key word being investigate. That will mean analyzing what will happen to some skills, like speed signets and the prevalence of some swiftness buffs (which is arguably the weakest buff in the game anyway…), but balancing can be done. Afterward, skill slots and trait points get freed up for things people actually want to do, instead of building just to be rid of a nuisance.

LOL – there is the strawman argument again – money. Nevermind that it would totally unbalance the game and cause huge issues with useless skills. They have plenty of money making items in the CS already that are easy to design – weapon skins and armor skins.

I would argue that players who want mounts don’t understand that Swiftness, along with DPS, Armor, Healing, support are what this game is balanced on. Take away the swiftness and you end up an unbalanced game. It seems to me arguing with people who want mounts, is like having a blind man describe an elephant. They are only seeing one part of a bigger picture.

Mounts are not a simple addition – all the skills/traits would have to undergo a change and I don’t see that happening.

I love that attachment by the way. And it does bring home the issue. All they look at is ’ No Mounts."

they either do not see, or don’t want to see. How swiftness would affect most of the classes, of not all. Some of the runes, some of the sigils, some of the traits.

generalized speed-boost would undo any benefit derived from some class skills and utilities. The thing is… it is not Just IN combat. Anet also wants these balances OUTSIDE combat.

As long as that is their position they need to understand this is the game that Anet wants it to be. They want the game to be changed for something else.

Sounds to me they should just play something else.

PS this is whrre they do the " they lost the argument" thing. It’s hard to lose an argument when the other side refuses to make an argument.

Leo.2641:

No sir, your copy and paste is a distraction and all your doing is bumping and taking space from the topic when other people can come in and actually put a for or against counter argument.

First I am not a sir, I am a Ma’am.

Secondly I understand you dislike the nature of this discussion. I Understand you want Players against mounts to provide compelling arguments that then you can poke holes at. So you can distract from the fact that you are not posting compelling arguments for speed Boost mounts.

YOU..want the game developers to change the game, YOU want them to devote time, energy, and resources to implement speed-boost mounts.

YOU need to provide compelling arguments.

All I… need to say to counter your argument demanding I make compelling arguments against is:

" I am content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts, therefore since I am not trying to compell Anet to change the game in any way shape or form, I need not provide any compelling argument"

Rauderi.8706:

Nerelith.7360:

make a compelling argument for why Mounts are beneficial to the game…

Money. That’s a compelling enough reason for ANet to do it. To invest (time and money) in development. If they expect a large enough return on cosmetic mounts they’ll do it.
It doesn’t have to be compelling for you, but for ANet.

We agree, it does not need to be compelling for me, but for Anet. I have been saying this all along. And so does everyone else that is against mounts.

See? another strawman.

here is the thing. If Anet wants Money, all they need to do is design a few armor skins….or a new weapon skin.

Neither of those need the time, energy or resources to implement Mounts.

To implement mounts would be a huge undertaking. it would COST Money. A lot more money than it costs to make a few new armor or weapon skins.

it would also undo a LOT of the work they have put in making speed-boost an element around which class, runes, sigils, traits have been balanced.

A lot of work just to add something you guys want on the gem store.

This is Not a compelling argument for mounts, This is a compelling argument for " something on the gem store that people can buy"

Anet already has a Lot of those, that they need not introduce speed-boost mounts to attain.

This is basically " It would be cool and I want it." disguised as a compelling argument.

Leo.2641:

Nerelith.7360:

MrIllusion.5304:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The real problem with MrIllusion assumptions, is he does not see that builds, in GW2, are as much about compromise as it is what you are trying to accomplish. Adding in mounts would negate many of the current builds used in WvW and PvE. Skills such as the Necro’s Signet of the Locust, would be useless. There would be many traits negated by this also.

This is why adding in mounts is such a huge deal and chore – it really does affect the balance in GW2 and might totally unbalance the game. Games that balance both PvE and PvP have a knife-edge balance that if pushed one way or the other causes dire consequences. A.Net had this problem with GW1, then they added in both the Ritualist and Assassin professions. They never could get back the balance they had at the beginning of the game and they did admit that.

Rauderi, there are superior Signets of the Traveler – so yes there are signets that help with boosts. Putting in mounts would negate all of that also

You are wrong about me assuming.

The concept of adding Traveler Runes and Speed Signets and Banners isn’t something ground-breaking. We already know it exists.

The speed boosts they provide do not add to build diversity. We do not have a meta where we deck out in swiftness and speed boosts so that we can kite specific mobs, while crippling them (maybe it exists in PvP?). The current PvE meta does not have any of that.

The idea that removing all those speed boosts from skills/traits is going to kill build diversity is a moot point. Those skills/traits serve only one function in PvE. To get from point A to point B faster. If this is an issue in certain types of gameplay then normalise for that. It’s not uncommon to prevent mounting up in some MMOs in PvP or whatever content where higher speed is an unfair advantage.

Increasing speed across the board makes it so that Signet of Locusts and Warrior Banner Skill #3 and Guardian Staff #3 can be freed up in lieu of something that synergises with your build.

In other words, if speed were normalised, those speed enhancing skills/traits/food/whatever can be revamped and changed to something more meaningful than a QoL feature. This adds to build diversity.

It sounds Like you do not wish to play the game that Anet has provided. You seek to undo so Much of what Anet has saught to make a balancing issue.

To accept the changes you want, to make Speed-boost mounts relevant, would be to allow the game to be changed Into a completely different game.

As such, I hate to sound repetative … and redundant…( see what I did there?) but…maube you might be happier playing a different game that has speed-boost mounts?

I know that World of warcraft has two of the things you want. it has speedboost mounts, and it has so many skill bars you can load up all of your skills, and not have to compromise for anything.

Reading your posts… it seems that the game you wish to play already exists. Ir’s simply not THIS game. Maybe it’s World of Warcraft?

It sounds Like you do not like change, you do not wish to play the game that Anet has provided. You seek to undo so Much of what Anet has sought to make a balancing issue.

Game was release and what we have now is not the same when it first came out. Since you don’t like change I will provide with other games you might like

Reading your constants copy and paste replied….it seem that the game you wish to play already exist. It is simply that this game is not for you because you don’t like change, maybe just maybe its (your constant replied goes here game)

Another distraction. I am not asking Anet to eliminate anything. And whether I like change or not. On the issue of Mounts….I do not want Mounts In the game.

This is still Not a compelling argument for Mounts.

Where are your compelling arguments for the inclusion of mounts that does Not amount to

1. it would be cool.
2. I want it
3. why not?

I am content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts.

Where are your compelling arguments for ?

MrIllusion.5304:

Nerelith.7360:

I see you are trying to put those of us that do not wish mounts back on the defensive to distract from the fact that your side doesn’t have compelling arguments for mounts.

We that do not want mounts are not trying to compell Anet to do anything.

We that do not want mounts are content for them to leave the game as it is.

Therefore:

We do not need to provide a single, solitary, compelling argument for non-change.

it would be Like Looking at a dog that is Just sitting there and saying " keep doing nothing!" " see how well trained he is?"

The only argument we need is….

" We are content with Anet’s decision to continue not providing speed boost mounts"

I don’t claim to speak for anyone but myself, and you’d be crazy to think putting “we” gives you anymore weight than speaking for yourself.

Have fun not using any of the features I mention earlier. Cause going by your logic, we shouldn’t have asked for minis, or that monkey king tonic, or the wardrobe system, or ascended gear. All of which appeared magically without Anet putting in any work.

Because as we all know, there was absolutely no objection to Ascended gear, or Tequatl being buffed up, or Triple Wurm being introduced.

Nooooo. Those were added because every single player voted yes.

In fact you have inspired me so much that I’ll pop over to the Mesmer/Guardian/Ele forums and troll them. Because we know they haven’t released any info about balancing their traits yet. Which means they are never going to do so.

This is a distraction. I refuse to be distracted. You poke at whether I use " we" or “I” to take away attention from the fact that you are still….

Not providing a compelling argument.

make a compelling argument for why Mounts are beneficial to the game, and are worth the developers putting time, energy and resources, and do not negatively impact the rest of the playerbase that doesn’t want mounts, that doesn’t amount to " It would be cool,, and I want it." or.." why not?"

Saying " where are your arguments against?"

I don’t need any.

" I am content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts"

Where are the compelling arguments for?

MrIllusion.5304:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The real problem with MrIllusion assumptions, is he does not see that builds, in GW2, are as much about compromise as it is what you are trying to accomplish. Adding in mounts would negate many of the current builds used in WvW and PvE. Skills such as the Necro’s Signet of the Locust, would be useless. There would be many traits negated by this also.

This is why adding in mounts is such a huge deal and chore – it really does affect the balance in GW2 and might totally unbalance the game. Games that balance both PvE and PvP have a knife-edge balance that if pushed one way or the other causes dire consequences. A.Net had this problem with GW1, then they added in both the Ritualist and Assassin professions. They never could get back the balance they had at the beginning of the game and they did admit that.

Rauderi, there are superior Signets of the Traveler – so yes there are signets that help with boosts. Putting in mounts would negate all of that also

You are wrong about me assuming.

The concept of adding Traveler Runes and Speed Signets and Banners isn’t something ground-breaking. We already know it exists.

The speed boosts they provide do not add to build diversity. We do not have a meta where we deck out in swiftness and speed boosts so that we can kite specific mobs, while crippling them (maybe it exists in PvP?). The current PvE meta does not have any of that.

The idea that removing all those speed boosts from skills/traits is going to kill build diversity is a moot point. Those skills/traits serve only one function in PvE. To get from point A to point B faster. If this is an issue in certain types of gameplay then normalise for that. It’s not uncommon to prevent mounting up in some MMOs in PvP or whatever content where higher speed is an unfair advantage.

Increasing speed across the board makes it so that Signet of Locusts and Warrior Banner Skill #3 and Guardian Staff #3 can be freed up in lieu of something that synergises with your build.

In other words, if speed were normalised, those speed enhancing skills/traits/food/whatever can be revamped and changed to something more meaningful than a QoL feature. This adds to build diversity.

It sounds Like you do not wish to play the game that Anet has provided. You seek to undo so Much of what Anet has saught to make a balancing issue.

To accept the changes you want, to make Speed-boost mounts relevant, would be to allow the game to be changed Into a completely different game.

As such, I hate to sound repetative … and redundant…( see what I did there?) but…maube you might be happier playing a different game that has speed-boost mounts?

I know that World of warcraft has two of the things you want. it has speedboost mounts, and it has so many skill bars you can load up all of your skills, and not have to compromise for anything.

Reading your posts… it seems that the game you wish to play already exists. Ir’s simply not THIS game. Maybe it’s World of Warcraft?

Rauderi.8706:

MrIllusion.5304:

Because compromising my build to include perma 25% run speed is stupid.

Because paying through the nose for Traveler’s Runes, which provide little benefit other than perma 25% run speed, is stupid.

Because sacrificing a slot on my skill bar for perma 25% run speed is stupid.

This isn’t about having more maneuverability. People are doing this to move around faster.

For as much as this led to my banner warrior, that’s exactly it. Traveling speed (not movement in combat) was the entire reason I built the character that way. Maximized boon duration, picked traits for warhorn cooldowns, so I could be perma-swift, then dug into Discipline for the melee-move +25%. And there are still characters that don’t get that option. It’s pretty slack.
I probably would have built him completely differently if I had some kind of generic elite Traveling Signet or utility skill that I could swap around. I’m not advocating mounts, necessarily, but at least a lore-appropriate way to equalize traveling speed for out of combat.

Equalized run speed is not the game that Anet made. Anet has chosen to make speed-boost an element around which to balance classes, in or out of combat.

some classes only have run-speed On a weapon, some only have it on a utility, some on both. Some can only give run-speed to themselves, some can grant it to those around them.

Anet has chosen to make speed-boost an element around which to balance runes and sigils.

Anet has chosen to make speed-boost an element around which to balance traits.

A lot of developer time, has been put, to the purpose of balancing speed boost among all of the above.

To provide a generic item..a mount, that equalizes speed boost is to seek to undo the limitations the developers have put in place.

Mr Illusion Just because Anet has changed the game before… and added features that were not in the game before, while showing how innovative Anet is, and showing the willingness to try new things……

None of that is compelling argument for mounts.

You seem to be saying " well, they added new things before."

I agree. That is an awesome thing about Anet. I applaud that as well.

But You need to provide compelling reasons for why MOUNTS specifically would be a GOOD change.

What benefit do mounts bring to the game, that is not already IN the game… that cannot be experienced with the tools we already have… and…

Is adding these extras a good use of the developers time, energy and resources… without negatively impacting the other players that do not want mounts?

You need both. Otherwise it’s just a " well, it’s cool, I want it, and if it messes up your play, then sucks to be you..I want it"

YOU need to provide compelling reasons for why mounts specifically benefit the game… not just you personally, or players like you. What do mounts bring to the game that is a benefit…. and…. is worth the developers drawing resources from some other aspect of the game…. to deliver it…. and… does not negatively impact any other player’s gametime?

I know I keep repeating myself, I do so, because… the players that want mounts continue to distract… continue to bring strawman arguments, making false equivalences, bait and switch…. and what you refuse to do is… provide compelling arguments.

After 2 years , no compelling arguments. Can it be because maybe there aren’t any?

MrIllusion.5304:

So let’s see what “compelling arguments” you have for not introducing this change:

I see you are trying to put those of us that do not wish mounts back on the defensive to distract from the fact that your side doesn’t have compelling arguments for mounts.

We that do not want mounts are not trying to compell Anet to do anything.

We that do not want mounts are content for them to leave the game as it is.

Therefore:

We do not need to provide a single, solitary, compelling argument for non-change.

it would be Like Looking at a dog that is Just sitting there and saying " keep doing nothing!" " see how well trained he is?"

The only argument we need is….

" We are content with Anet’s decision to continue not providing speed boost mounts"

MrIllusion.5304:

Lazuli.2098:

MrIllusion.5304:

…
4) Screen Clutter, Griefing, Lag

You’re kidding right? Does the speed boost in the city make us any more griefers? Any more laggy? We already have swiftness boon in the game. Has anyone blamed lag on that?
…

Then you would be alright with invisible mounts? Or maybe the mount would disappear outside of towns, forts, camps, or any map with more than a certain number of players. You see it’s not the speed boost that’s the problem, it’s the screen clutter and graphics burden.

Why is this even an issue?

We already have tonics and minis and costumes and costume brawls.

Also, the SHOW LOWEST CHARACTER MODEL LIMIT setting.

Because some of us do not wish to see mounts. it’s that simple. I do not wish to see mounts. So either your mount is Invisible, or it is toggleable so i do Not see it and can turn off the " show mounts" feature, and cosmetics only.

or.

The speed boost the mount gains is Non-permanent, and Just a duplication of the speed boost it might get from One of your skills. taking up a utility slot. So as to not undo all the class balancing and rune and sigil balancing, and trait balancing Anet has done over two years. And also invisible, so I do not see it, or toggleable, so i can turn off the " show Mounts" feature.

also it needs to not use up any time, money, energy or resources that could be put to better use elsewhere.

Oh if when you are riding your Invisible mount, you look strange…floating 3 feet off the ground…. all bets are off, that ruins my immersion.

Orpheal.8263:

Nerelith, thats nonsense, only because ANet has already something they can sell doesn’t stop a company to invent new things they can sell too to make even more profit.

Thats like saying that McDonald’s can’t ever bring in a new sort of hamburger with different sauces, different food inside and so on, because they sell already Hamburgers oO

This is no compelling argument :P Thats the big advantage of a Gemstore that sells digital content. The owner of the shop can add whenever they want completely new digital content and the owner is absolute free to add into his shop, whatever the shop owner wants to sell something new, because digital content can be created at will, whenever wanted to add something new, if its needed to make money with it.
That’s regardless of it, if that digital item is just something new of something already existing, or if it is maybe a completely new different type of digital item, like Mount Skins would be.

Nobody stops ANet to implement whenever they want something completely new into the Shop. They aren#t forced to stick onto only certain thigns forever, only because its something they can sell already >.>

We get it, that you want ANet to priorize their time and ressources on things like Bug Fixes, Class Balancing and such type of things first, but that are things, that Anet does anyways with every single patch, most of it through Stealth Changes even completely unannounced and not mentioned in the Patch Notes in regard of Bug Fixes, unless its handling about a game breaking major bug that needs to be mentioned that it got fixed to inform the players about it.

But those things, that you want here rather personally are no compelling reason for Anet not to come up also constantly with new content.
It’ what Anet has to do to keep their players interested to make money, because GW2 just lives from its Gemstore. If the Gemstore doesn’t run, then this Game is dead basically, unless Anet draws the first Expansion out of nowhere out of their magic hats

GW2 isn’t anymore GW1 in its first years, where every half year came out a boxed new part of the game out, where the game mostly financialized itself only through the game sales, than through its rather inferior ingame shop compared to GW2’s Gemstore.

Where are your compelling arguments for why Anet needs to pour Money, time, and energy into these speed-boost mounts?

Revenue?

Speed boost is not the same for each class. Some classes have only one speed boost skill…it may be on a weapon, it may be part of a utility, it might be both, it may be a speed boost that you can grant to others.

Speed boost is also balanced On runes, sigils, and trait choices.

THIS is the game Anet made. To put a speed boost mount On the Gem store, they need more compelling reasons than Revenue, because they would have to find a way to redo, all the work they already put and that has evolved over 2 years, for speed boost across all the classes.

I seriously doubt they would do all that…just to put a speed boost mount on the gem store that would generate a LOT of controversy in their player base…. when they can generate as much cash from Putting up a couple of armor skins, NOT re-invent the game, not kitten off anyone, and Not spend any resources beyond those needed to design new armor skins.

You know why you will not find Lobster at McDonald’s?

1. They know their customers. They know how much they are willing to spend.
2. They know How much it would cost to provide Lobsters everyday…chances are…it may not generate as much revenue to be worth the time, energy and resources they would have to devote to it’s preperation, and

3. it doesn’t fit their brand. They may offer new burgers with new sauces…. Just as Anet provides new armor and weapon skins, with new looks.

They don’t provide a food item that doesn’t fit their brand.

Lobsters don’t with McDonald’s, and Speed Boost mounts don’t with Anet.

We need you to provide compelling reasons… This form of Revenue, is not compelling.

Orpheal.8263:

Nerelith.7360:

Opinion.

None of the above are reasons why Anet needs to grant you mounts.

Okay, so you want to settle for mediocrity, instead of enhancing the gameplay, which could make GW2 even better. At least admit that, because that’s what you are saying. This is why even developers hate their own fanboys, because they try to defend the inexcusable, while others try to be constructive for the betterment of the game.

Well it is only your personal opinion that mounts would make the game better. it is mine that mounts would make the game worse.

As for calling me a fanboy. Just a few Months ago I was advocating people stop shopping at the gift store til the developers came up with a way to nerf serker’s and make other armor, or skill selections more viable in dungeons. So please Understand why I don’t take offense at you calling me a fanboy, since it doesn’t apply, and I know better.

It’s ironic, that waypoints were supposed to lessen the burdens of travel, and be more convenient, when in fact, they are less convenient in how players travel. Switching out weapons, traits, and sigils for Swiftness boons, everytime for traveling, isn’t convenient at all.

Strawman. This was never about convenience it is about class balance.

It’s an inconvenience of flawed gameplay design.

Opinion. Not mine.

Rumor has it, that the next feature pack will introduce saved builds, such as those found in SPvP. If true, that destroys your whole argument that this is how Anet wants the game to be played. In fact, the SPvP builds destroys your entire argument by itself. Anet didn’t want players to constantly switch out their traits and sigils, etc., because it is inconvenient.

Rumor says a lot of things, I don’t waste my time on Rumor. But… if they do institute saved builds where does your argument for speed boost mounts go then?

You know you’ve lost the argument when you resort to telling others not to play the game, even when they offer valid reasons as to why the current game isn’t enjoyable to either them, or others, but still want to offer solutions for a better game. It sounds like the old argument, “go back to wow!”, which is nothing but a shallow attempt to defend their argument.

Well you may see it that way. The way I see it is… This game as it currently is, is Not enjoyable to you and players like you. It is enjoyable to me, and others like me.

You are not offering solutions that better the game in my opinion, just make the game more enjoyable for yoiu, and less enjoyable for me.

The difference is… the game is already the game it is, which is not enjoyable for you.

Now you do have two options:

1. Try to change the game to the game you would find enjoyable…. except then it becomes Unenjoyable for me, so I will advocate strenuously to oppose those changes.

1. leave and play another game.

To be honest if I had to choose from the above I would prefer if you left the game. I don’t prefer this because I " lost the argument" see for me to “lose” you have to MAKE an argument to begin with. And you have not done so.

As to suggesting you play another game, it’s mostly because the way you say

the current game isn’t enjoyable to either them, or others

This really is usually a reason to go play something else. The game is fine as it is for me and others like me. To change it it would mean Anet needs to make an investment in capital, to bring about the changes you would Like them to, and yet you do not provide any compelling reasons why they should.

Now…since it seems you are not happy with the game Anet has chosen to provide…. maybe another game would be more pleasureable? One that has speed Boost mounts. And yes, you are right WoW does have speed-boost mounts.

Make valid compelling arguments, and we can discuss them. keep resorting to distractions, strawmenr, bait and switch etc…. all you do is bring glaring attention to the fact that you maybe may not have any valid compelling arguments, and that is why you do not make them.

You basically are saying " this is a list of How I would benefit from having a speed-boost mount" or another version of " it would be cool. I want it."

This is all we have heard for 2 years.

I think you need better arguments, because those are old, tired, and not compelling anyone.

nexxe.7081:

Nerelith.7360:

nexxe.7081:

Let’s take a poll, whether it’s not scientific or not.
http://strawpoll.me/2312877

Let’s Not and say we did. This is Not about how many of the 3 % of the playerbase that bothers to Post on the forums favors speed-boost mounts or not.

we are not indicative of the opinions of the 97 % that play the game as if the forums did not exist.

What the pro-mount side needs is to provide compelling reasons. And what the anti-mount side needs is to not allow the pro-mount side to distract attention away from the fact that they are not providing compelling arguments for their proposition.

We have yet to see compelling arguments. Just distractions.

There have been compelling reasons, but you choose to ignore them, because you are ideologically driven against them.

Revenue for Anet.

Anet has armor and weapon skins for revenue, they do Not need to introduce mounts for revenue.

Immersion.

Immersion means different things to different people, and it is hard to talk about it. it may be your reason for wanting mounts, it is not a reason for providing them.

Cosmetics (such as the broom).

There are plenty of Cosmetics options in game, there is no need to redesign the game and Introduce speed boost mounts for cosmetics. Mounts are unecessary, and not worth the time and effort for cosmetics, since Anet already has armor skins, and weapon skins for that purpose. This is again " I want it." Not " This is why it would be good for the game to provide it."

Less reliance on constantly switching out weapons, traits, and utilities for Swiftness Boons.

This sounds Like you do not wish to play the game the developers have provided. Swapping weapons runes, sigils, traits, and skills, IS this game’s design. To get one benefit, In this case speed boost, you need to give up another.

If you do not wish to, then you do not wish to play THIS game, and you seek to turn THIS game into another game. maybe you should simply play another game? One with speed boost mounts?

Enhanced traveling options.

This is again.." I want"… you want more travelling options. These are not compelling reasons why Anet should give you the travelling options you are asking for.." tied to a mount"

Now, let’s look at the other side of the argument, “we already have waypoints!” Yes, very compelling. lol.

We do not need any compelling arguments since we are not asking for a change in the game. We do not need to give reasons to compell Anet to do anything, so we do not need a single solitary compelling reason. The only reason we really need to give is:

" We are content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts"

All waypoints do, is encourage people to use Swiftness Boons, instead of mounts. Why go through all the trouble of switching out weapons. traits, and utilities, when one can use a mount for the same purpose?

See above. These are the choices that Anet wants us to make… they want us to go through all the trouble of switching out weapons, traits, and utilities. If you do not wish to play the game that Anet has developed no one is forcing you to. But that doesn’t mean that the game needs to be changed to something else so you are happy. Maybe you would be happier playing a game that has speed boost mounts?

In fact, it would enhance gameplay mechanics, by discouraging 50+ zergs, both in Champ trains, and WvW, but only if there were less waypoints.

Is this what GW2 has become? Is it any wonder the MMO genre population laughs at the mindless zombie zergs in GW2? They have a point. It requires no thought. Just do EotM for proof.

Opinion.

None of the above are reasons why Anet needs to grant you mounts.

Leo.2641:

because a simple vote, will give us the result pretty much about anything correct?

Not when the people polled are not proven to be representative of the whole.

Again, where are your compelling reasons for why mounts would be beneficial to the game, that are not iterations of :

It would be cool.
I want it

or

why not?

Leo.2641:

Nerelith.7360:

Leo.2641:

nexxe.7081:

Let’s take a poll, whether it’s not scientific or not.
http://strawpoll.me/2312877

couldn’t a simple yes or no will be enough? then work from their?

Nope… see above.

Then this just prove the case FOR it
CASE CLOSED

What it proves is that you cannot provide a compelling argument for mounts that isn’t just a re-iteration of

It’s cool
I want it.

or

why not?

Make a compelling argument for mounts and we will discuss. This is Just a distraction.

Leo.2641:

nexxe.7081:

Let’s take a poll, whether it’s not scientific or not.
http://strawpoll.me/2312877

couldn’t a simple yes or no will be enough? then work from their?

Nope… see above.

nexxe.7081:

Let’s take a poll, whether it’s not scientific or not.
http://strawpoll.me/2312877

Let’s Not and say we did. This is Not about how many of the 3 % of the playerbase that bothers to Post on the forums favors speed-boost mounts or not.

we are not indicative of the opinions of the 97 % that play the game as if the forums did not exist.

What the pro-mount side needs is to provide compelling reasons. And what the anti-mount side needs is to not allow the pro-mount side to distract attention away from the fact that they are not providing compelling arguments for their proposition.

We have yet to see compelling arguments. Just distractions.

Leo.2641:

again you are just a troll and you have no valid argument and when somebody present a valid agreement towards your counter argument you feel like your getting attack because for some reason you cant accept the fact that you are wrong here, you tent resort to the childish games.

I see the irony escapes you.

We do not need arguments against speed boost mounts, we just need to say :

“we are content with the game as it is, we are content with Anet’s continued decision to not provide speed boost mounts.”

You want change you need to provide compelling reasons, if the reasons you provide can be shot down because the mechanics you want are already there, or because the extras that come with mounts would Not be worth the time, energy or resources… or are already there, then your reason is not compelling.

Cosmetics is not compelling because we can already have cosmetics without adding a single speed boost mount.

Revenue enhancement from the sale of mounts is also not compelling because we already have items we can sell to generate revenue, that would not require the time, the energy or the resources that would need to be put into this, and away from other aspects of the game.

They can sell an armor skin, a weapon skin, a make-over kit. And Boom… REVENUE.

Once again,… where are your compelling reasons?

Leo.2641:

pretty sure you forgot the focus of this game here let me spell it out for you COSMETIC

Cosmetics is Not a compelling argument for a major redesign of the game to provide speed-boost mounts… especially when Anet has already stated that this game was not designed with mounts in mind.

There are already plenty of Cosmetics in the game… armor skins, and weapon skins..Tonics.. backpacks… None of that needs a major redesign of the game.

We do Not need mounts to have cosmetics, we can have cosmetics without mounts.

Provide compelling reasons for mounts.

Leo.2641:

If you cant take criticize your loss that mine, anyways again the mount system is already implanted into the game. GW2 already have mount in the game you are the one that saying this and that. How can a person that is against mount tell someone who is for it what they WANT. Exactly you can’t it is insane. This is a cosmetic game so add more cosmetic to the game, which is skin, armor, MOUNTS and so on.

corrected your post for you. If the mounts are already in the game. Use them, and be content. How can I tell someone I know what they want? I Listen to them. They tell me what they want by what comes out of their mouth.

Speed-boost mounts
Combat mounts

Doesn’t take a psychic.

It’s getting hard to take you seriously.

stobie.2134:

What’s the point of telling someone they shouldn’t want what they want? (and being so mean about it doesn’t help) What’s so bad about reminding ANet that some people wish the game had mounts? You’d think the OP cursed someone’s family by the suggestion!

If they had mounts, I’d be happy about it. I’d think ANet would be happy, too, since it’s an obvious source of more, most cosmetic $$$.

If they don’t add them – and I expect they will not – I wouldn’t be upset, since there was never any indication they intended to add mounts. But wow – hostility!

You misunderstand. I am Not telling people that should not want what they want. If anything I am trying to actually help them.

There is nothing wrong with saying " I want speed boost mounts." But isn’t it better to say " I think speed-boost mounts would be a benefit to this game, and make a great addition to it, and here is why… aside from the coolness factor…. if we had speed-boost on mounts…. then ( a compelling reason should be typed in here)."

As long as they Just repeat " I like them, they are cool, I want them." and try to keep those of us NOT wanting them on the defensive, there can be no discourse.

Anet will peek in here… they will see that The Anti side provides reasons against, even when we need provide NO other reason than.." We agree with Anet that they should not provide speed-boost mounts"

They see that the pro side does not provide any reasons at all..just distractions to take attention away from the fact that they are not providing reasons…. repeating " it would be cool, give them to me." and … tearing down the reasons provided by the anti-mount side.

If there are valid compelling reasons from those pro-mount I wish they would provide them, so we can have a real discussion instead of different iterations of

It would be cool
I want it.
why not?
You haven’t given good reasons against ( we do not need any..a simple.." No thanks, I agree with anet’s position" is enough. )

You are being mean not letting us have them.

None of these are compelling reasons.

And Anet will see that the player-base is very drastically divided over this. To please one, kittenes off the other.

You also said that selling cosmetics mounts would be a source of revenue, but it comes with a cost of instant Hostility from the player base. They can get just as much revenue by providing armor, and weapon skins without a major investment of time, energy and resources to do a major redesign of the game for their inclusion, for a product with dubious benefit….without any hostility from anyone. if they want more revenue, they don’t need to sell mounts, Just more armor skins. ( This was actually quite ingenious…" it would be cool, I want it" disguised as a reason. but still “It would be cool. I want it.” since Anet doesn’t need Mounts to raise revenue.)

They can choose to implement mounts which would be a major Investment of time, energy and resources… and kitten off a Large group of players .

They can choose to do nothing. Which is cheaper.

Barring the pro-mount side providing compelling reasons for their inclusion… doing nothing seems to be the best bet, with the best return on investment. since Investment = 0.

Leo.2641:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Leo.2641:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Leo.2641:

Mounts for all Class Profession, just some ideas here, necro with a wurm, warrior with a horse, guardian with a celestial shape, engineer with a some sorta looking mechanical car, thief with a some type of bird, like I said just some idea and each type of mount will be design toward the race as well so it goes with it. BUFF wise why are we arguing about that let ANET decide on the buff but get the RACE MOUNT implanted first

Game doesn’t need mounts period. There is nothing that has been stated by the ‘Pro Mount’ players that make them useful or even wanted in this game.

I have seen the attitude in many other games, that once something is added that a portion of the players don’t want, The players that pushed for the item, start pushing for the next iteration of the item. It is a slippery slope. A.net doesn’t allow macros – except for one Key – one action which basically makes Macros useless. They also posted that they do not want to have one player having an advantage over another player. Speed Boosts, from the various professions are not that as they make the player choose them over some other skill/traits that could be used. Mounts could be used as that advantage and I don not think A.Net will go down that slippery slope.

Again you assume and speaking for A. Net let them decided what buff will go on the mounts.

A.Net already stated this game was not designed for mounts. Isn’t that enough?

That was pointed in in one of the many other threads the pro-mount people put up. It was information that was ignored by them. If A.Net wanted mounts in the game, they would have been in from the beginning not 2 yrs. down the road when it would take more work to put mounts than to make an expansion or another Race/Profession.

No your right but your wrong on some things about A.Net. again you are speaking through your opinion for them. The race/mount was just an idea. but Mounts in general whenever if it has buff or not already exist in the game. I or some other as well is asking for more type of mounts in the game. Because after all this is a cosmetic games correct and we can all agree that everybody wants to be different. For the people that says if they implanted the mounts and saying that you are too poor to afford gem or don’t have the time to get a mount depending how A.Net is going to let say sale them for a limited time we can also argue about how everybody doesn’t have a certain skin or legendary. Again the system is already there, cosmetic wise needs more different options.

It is Not about poverty. That is not the issue, that is a strawman. The thing is, there are better things for Anet to devote resources too, and they have alreasy said this game is not designed for mounts. To provide mounts they would have to redesign systems that have been in operation, and evolving for 2 years, that the rest of the player base is fine with…to provide something of dubious benefit at most for one particular demographic.

There are a multitude of reasons already provided by those of us that do not want mounts in this game.

Know what I have not seen? One single compelling reason proposed by the other side. I have seen

1. It would be cool. (debatable)
2. I want it. ( sounds personal)

and

1. why not?

None of those are compelling reasons FOR mounts.

Maybe None are provided because there aren’t any?

No.." demand for mounts" is Not a compelling reason for why they would be beneficial to the game, and worth the resources for their implementation. Demand for mounts is just a fancier way to say " I want it."

These reasons have been tossed out for 2 years. And Anet has not been compelled. You need to do better.

Provide compelling reasons for why mounts would be beneficial, …More beneficial than bug fixes, more beneficial than broken skills…more beneficial than bugged traits.

Ashen.2907:

It seems odd to me that someone would go from words of wisdom such as these…

Nerelith.7360:

…Many will say " this is not the game for you." And maybe they may be right. But Anet has shown that they are not above changing direction…

…It may be the execution may be off, but if i remember something about Anet it is, they do not have a problem saying to themselves." Maybe we can do this in a new way, a better way."

So is the game as it is, the game I might wish it to be? No. But does that means I have given up

Nerelith.7360:

But Just because you are happy with the way it is now, doesn’t mean that those of us that expect better, should stop advocating for changes we would like to see…

…Now since I paid for this game as much as you, I feel i have a right to advocate for what i would like the game to become, so no..I won’t Just " let the door hit me on the way out." :-)

Nerelith.7360:

I do not care what you do or do not have a problem with. Your opinion isn’t that important to me.
As a buyer of the game I will express Myself as I see fit, if you like it great, if not, well, not much to be said about that. It just seems to me that you seem to feel that you need to defend the game

…To telling people that if they don’t like the current implementation of something in game they should look into going elsewhere.

Also:

Whether or not an argument is compelling is subjective. The fact that one person does not find something compelling does not mean that it is not compelling to someone else.

Personally I do not think that there is a much more compelling reason to supply something than demand for that thing. People want to buy a product, the company wants their money. Of course that must be balanced against cost of production, opportunity costs, etc. Only Anet has those numbers and they have added mounts/mount-like options to the game over the course of its lifespan. They have never, that I am aware of, said that mounts are not an option. So there is tangible evidence of their willingness but none of unwillingness (again that I have seen, if someone can provide a quote or link I will stand corrected).

You have commented on the lack of balance in this game previously, don’t you think it might be a bit off to claim that speed buffs inherent to classes,which you have stated are not balanced properly, make the addition of mount based speed buffs inappropriate?

To pro-mount posters: Nerelith has a point. You might want to consider posting about how much you would be willing to pay. A Decision to include more mounts is likely going to be made based on predictions on revenue generation vs cost. “I want X and am willing to pay Y,” seems much more likely to benefit your position than, “I want X.”

You may be misunderstanding what I mean by " maybe this is not the game for you"

When a person advocates for something." I think this game could use mounts" and provides compelling reasons. Then rhey can be engaged in discussion and conversation about such.

I have yet to see anyone provide compelling reasons. What I do see a lot of is.." wouldn’t this be cool? wouldn’t that be cool? I want that in this game."

And even THAT is not an issue for me.

But:

When players start suggesting large scale changes to the game… to make speed boost mounts viable. When they ignore reasons provided by the players that do not wish them, or do not in any way deal with the fact that the changes they propose are extensive, and costly, and would use up resources that would be best used elsewhere….

When they basically say " I want speed – boost mounts to be relevant to Gw2, so here are changes I propose to gw2…. that even if they negatively impact everyone else, would make speed-boost mounts relevant..and more fun for me……."

This is when I say " It seems you do not wish to play Gw2, you wish to turn gw2 into another game. As such, maybe yoiu might enjoy playing a game that does offer speed boost mounts?"

They want drastic changes to gw2 to make speed boost mounts relevant. Then they do Not provide any compelling reasons for the changes, Just

1. it would be cool.

and

2. I like them.

I asked Gummy " you said you have more reasonings ( his word not mine ) what are they?"

I am still looking for compelling reasons, and I still do not see any. I do see distraction, after distraction, after distraction…. that takes attention away from the fact that after 2 years, no compelling reasons have been offered to show that speed boost mounts would either benefit the game or be worth the time, energy and resources needed to bring them into the game.

As for me:

I am content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts.

I am sorry if I ascribed some of Orpheal’s ideas to Gummy. Orpheal’s ideas were to me a Bit extreme.

As to Not wanting mounts, that means I also did Not want SAB, fact is, I do not like mounts In this game.

it’s Not about SAB it’s about Mounts. I do not want them. Plain and simple.

Anet doesn’t provide them, and I am perfectly content with that.

Orpheal.8263:

Fine, everyone is free to change their minds, but it absolutely doesn’t make you look serious, if you change your mind within a conversation every now and then from A to B over C back to A, regardless if you are a man ,a woman or whatever :P

As I said. I was willing to compromise My hard-line stance. But then… Ok.. let me give an analogy.

I am on the 40 yard line On a football field, and Gummy and you are on the 40 yard Line On the opposite side…..Now… meeting halfway, and seeking compromise I move forward a few yards…..

And gummy and you back up…3 yards…

I compromise and say " ok, but make it a toggle thing, so i need not see it. Even though I have misgivings… mainly, the penchant of some pro-mount advocates to be given a hand but then they want the entire frigging arm…"…..

His response is, that now he wants an entire zone, he wants speed-boost mounts, he wants 15 skills per mount… is that Just the same mount for everyone ..or are there 5 or 6 different mounts each with 15 different skills of their own? He wants 3 modes per mount…. with 5 skills each..he wants mounted combat.

How much work would have to be put into this? How many resources pulled from other more important projects? Then I realize that if I move forward another 3 yards, he will Just back up 3 yards…

or…other pro-mount players will just make even more extreme demands for mounts…

what is next? he already wants 50 % speed boost, and did you read his " 10 step plan"? to eliminate all speed generation through runes, sigils, and traits ?? thereby nerfing players that decide they do Not want speed boost mounts.

I think your plan is..that those that Buy speed boost mounts get a 50 % speed buff..that they can grant to others….but… Those that do not wish to buy a mount,….can by a gem shop item…. to give them speed boost..I think he said….15 % … for an hour… so we need to keep buying them.. but hey F*** fair… he wants his speed boost combat mount.

This is in effect NERFING, anyone that doesn’t want to buy a Mount.

Sorry, it is hard to take either of you seriously. So yes, I changed My mind.

No mounts, no way, nowhere, now how….just…no. I was perfectly willing to talk, as I said for me, the most important issues are preserving speed boost balancing per class.. so i thought…" add a mount to the already existing speed boost skills, and have it take a slot on the utility skills…. then make it toggle-able so those Not wishing to see mounts don’t need to. Aside from making it so the " speed boost mounted" animations do not look strange… Like someone flying 3 feet off the ground..or weird pairings Like ..a charr riding a chicken….

If Anet wanted to run it as a back-burner project…. so it doesn’t slow down necessary skill balancing, bug fixes, LS releases ( even though I am not Interested In LS)…I would have been fine with all that…as a compromise….

But both of you proved my worst fears…. some pro-mount players don’t want a compromise…they just want to lull us that do not want mounts Onto a slippery slope sliding ever more in their direction.

I can see it now… 185% speed boost ( already mentioned btw)…. flying mounts…. ( already mentioned)… eliminate 2/3rds of way-points so the world feels “bigger” but give us permanent speed boost…..( already mentioned) ..etc..etc…etc….

Sometimes when the other side gets ridiculous, you walk away from the bargaining table, until the other side recuperates their sanity.

The easiest way to deal with a door-to-door salesman that tries to put his foot in the door, to get in your house, is to slam the friggen door on the friigen foot.

The easiest solution to the whole Mount situation is to go with Anet’s position….

I continue to support, and agree with Anet’s consistent decision to not provide speed boost mounts…..

Orpheal.8263:

@Nerelith

And here you go again
Don’t you realize, that what you do is absolutely annoying and a kind of form of passive trolling kinda ???
You don’t need to repeat yourself and your exact same wording like every 1-2 postings again and again and again.
People aren’t stupid. We already understand your opinion more than enough after your first posting that explained exactly your wording that you keep on repeatign now for like 6 thread pages

You make your life yourself too easy with your disillusional analogy about us pro mounters basically saying out only

Its cool
We want it

We have far more reasonings behind our arguments, than just these 2 silly personal opinions.
Its not so that I don’t want to read what you have to say, but it kind of kittenes off to read basically everytime always from you only the same things.
It feels just like talking to a brick wall and now where I go concretely on onto your personal point of exception for that you would accept mounts, because it would allow you to keep on playing the game as you like, without beign disturbed by the mounts in the game through deactivating the visibility of players that use them – you completely ignore that argument thats based on your own personal compromise in my 10 step plan.

How should one take you still anymore serious, if you just ignore your own compromises?

You keep saying you have other reasons, let’s hear them.

I have been here two years, and I have yet to hear a compelling argument for why adding mounts is either necessary, or beneficial to the game, that justifies it’s inclusion, in spite of player opposition to the very notion from one part of the playerbase…. and would be a worthwile use of developer time, energy, reources… that would then need to be pulled from other projects.

Let’s hear these compelling reasons.

Edit:

About Compromises, I changed my mind. No Mounts, No way, Never, no how. No..just …No. I am a woman, I reserve the right to be fickle, and change my mind.

You guys ask for an inch, get an inch, then ask for a mile, then want and demand 2 then 5 then 10.

Your idea of compromise is try to get us to meet you in the middle, then you back up… constantly moving the goal post, so that when before all you guys said you wanted was " cosmetics only" mounts… Now others are making even more odious demands.

First it was cosmetics only mounts, Now it’s speed-boost, mounted combat, 15 new skills in 3 sets of 5 per mount based On whether it is a support, control or damage mode… and a whole zone… Have you any idea How much work that would take? this is not a simple project you are demanding… Look…YOU say this is all you want. But I know others will just see it as a foot in the door, and make even MORE demands.

Nope… No mounts.

From your 10 step plan the only thing I noticed is, you wish to change this game into a completely different game. Maybe if you are not content with this game as it is, and need mounts, speed boost and mounted combat, you might wish to play another game that has speed boost mounts, and mounted combat?

Trying to be helpful. Off hand, I know WoW has speed Boost mounts, and flying mounts, ..i do not believe they have mounted combat though, but I am certain if you put 10 % of the energy that you put into demanding mounts here, you’ll have a fruitful search.

Lastly, I know I repeat myself mostly because it seems you have a hard time understanding.

Since YOU..want the developers to change the game…YOU have to provide compelling reasons for the game to be changed.

Since I… don’t want the game to be changed from what it is… since I want the status-quo, neither I, nor players that do not want mounts need to provide a single solitary argument against it.

All I need to say is:

" I am content with Anet’s continuing decision, to not provide speed boost mounts."

Gummy, the main difference is, I am Not asking Anet to change anything. You are the one asking for a re-design of the game , you are the one asking for them to turn their back on concepts that have served us fine for two years.

All without offering one compelling reason why it is beneficial for the game…

Does the game NEED this change? Explain….

All I hear is." this would be cool if it were in the game, and I want it." so yes, you are being selfish.

I on the other hand, am content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts.

Gummy.4278:

Nerelith.7360:

Gummy.4278:

However in my design ideas I did come up with a skill for the damage type mount that had a Charge! skill that gave a 50% speed buff to u and your party or the nearest allies for 2 or 3 seconds.

It is unnecessary to completely redesign the game for this to be implemented since it is already in the game.

Many professions can already grant a temporary speed boost to allies. If you wish to do this, the answer is simple..Play one of those professions, and use those skills.

it is ridiculous to expect Anet to redesign the game, because you don’t wish to play a profession, and use the skills that grant you what you want.

The skills are already in the game that do what you wish.

I believe that the guardian can grant a temporary speed boost to allies, and the elementalist. Maybe one of the hunter spirits, all the warrior banners.

I am sure there are others. We do not need mounted speed boost to provide you what the game has already implemented. If you don’t wish to avail yourself to what the game has already provided, then it sounds like a personal problem.

As to your " compromise" I for one, don’t seek compromise. See for players like me, the options are :

1. Mounted speed-boost
2. No mounted speed-boost.

Since we want what Anet is already providing … option 2. we do not need to compromise. You seem to feel you can say " well deep down i want 200 % speed Boost on a combat mount, so let’s compromise on a 50 % temporary speed boost combat mount?"

50 % is unbalanced. It is overpowered. Giving a Mount the ability to grant a 50 % speed boost however temporary will make those mounts mandatory. If you say you fail to understand why, that is being disingenuous.

you are overlooking that I am talking about a new area to be designed inside the Mist for mounted combat to play out. How can a skill that is only used inside this contained area be unbalancing and overpowering. Everyone in this area will be using some form of mount for a massive amount of the game play that will take place inside this area.

Because I don’t care ? I do not want mounts. Period. Ever. Anywhere.

I believe in a slippery slope. Get the foot in the door.

While you say you only want mounts In a contained area. I do Not want them anywhere. So the existence of mounts even in a contained area is too much for me. Next thing you know others will want them everywhere, and say " hey we have them in the Mists…what’s the big deal??? "

So No. No way, Nowhere, no how. Just No.

Gummy.4278:

Anyone who says something to the effect of “You want this game to cease being the game it is, be completely re-designed into a completely different game, with all the time, energy and resources that would drain from other projects.”

Forgets Anet did this already:

GW1 was completely re-designed into a completely different game. Its now GW2. You want to know something else I played GW1 all the way back since the beginning. That game was gem as it did not play like most games out there and never did I ever hear anyone ask for mounts even though they did provide us with some in the expansions.

But here is the real trick and you can see this for yourself on the wiki.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Utopia
Utopia was a planned expansion that got cancelled and most of its design got eaten up and turned mostly into Eye of the North which was the turning point that made this newer game GW2. On the Wiki it notes about the features of the cancelled expansion.

“Little is known about the features of Utopia, however, horses, giant beetles and other mounts are featured heavily in artwork for the cancelled campaign. It’s possible that these were a planned feature, or part of a planned profession for C4, but for whatever reason were not implemented. Mounts may, in fact, be one of the “exciting new features” the ArenaNet team wished to implement, but couldn’t due to technical or time constraints, or the fact that it wouldn’t work with what they had done previously."

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:%22Mount%22_concept_art_2.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Mount_concept_art.jpg

Does anyone remember this?

The complete redesign of Guild Wars and release of Gw2, is in No way comparable to completely redesigning gw2….. to make mounts relevant in gw2 .

If you say you do not see the differences you are being disingenuous. Now, if you want mounts with a Gw2 Lore background, skill set, engine, and classes, I am sure that none of us that do NOT want mounts would object to you doing as your post suggests….

Suggest to Anet that they release a new game set in the Gw2 Universe, that focuses on Mounts, Speed Boost and Combat.

That way , just as we STILL have Guild Wars for the players that did not find Gw2 to their liking, we will also have Gw2…for those that do not want Mounts.

You can name it " Gw2: Knights Triumphant" or something.

Edit: Actually this is a good idea. See the proposition has been made that the majority of the player base wants mounts.

It seems to me that if this is in fact so, “Gw2:Knights Triumphant” would quickly drain the Gw2 game since it would be giving all those players In gw2 what they wish, Speed-boost mounts and mounted combat.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Of course the opposite might also happen. No one goes to play the new game, but it would finally answer the question. Do enough players want Mounted Speed Boost and Combat enough to play a game designed for it?

It seems to me that some of the players that want speed boost are proposing the game be redesigned so that speed boost mounts become viable.

Their arguements unfotunately boil down to

Player with Speed Boost mount becomes 110 % more effective, but let’s make changes to the game to make Player without the speed boost mount only 90 % as effective as he used to be.

Then or course they will probably say " If Player B chooses to NOT buy a Mount, even if it makes him less effective to not have a mount, that is their choice. Players are free to choose to be less effective, as Long and they accept the consequences of those choices."

Here is the thing for me… The moment that players with a speed-boost mount are more effective than players without…. even a small % that makes the speed-boost mount mandatory. Even for those hating speed-boost mounts.

Personally, I think this is highly selfish. To desire the game be completely redesigned, even if it makes other players less effective, just so it makes speed boost mounts relevant.

I highly doubt that Anet will find this position reasonable.

Pandaman.4758:

Orpheal.8263:

@Pandaman

You are definetely overexaggerating here.
Did you overread the part, where I say, that Anet should improve all Class Options for Swiftness, therefore that the permanent 25% Boost should get removed??
I guess you did.

No, I didn’t “overread”, it’s just a horrible idea.

There are classes even in this Game, which have no permanent Speed Boost at all, like the Guardian or the Mesmer, which have to rely themself just only on Swiftness to move faster. […]

The subject of Guardians and Mesmers not having innate speed boosts has been discussed before, while I don’t remember the justification for mesmers not having it, a developer said guardians don’t get a speed boost trait and their swiftness abilities have massive cooldowns because it’s to balance their buffing abilities in WvW; simply put, ANet doesn’t want guardians to be able to get to a fight as quickly as others because they bring more to it than other classes (that’s ANet’s stance, I personally don’t agree, but it is what it is).

You don’t think that’s fair? Great, go ahead and tell ANet why you think they should add innate speed boosts to guardians and mesmers and un-nerf guardian swiftness cooldowns, and be sure to back up your argument with numbers to disprove their reasoning; but suggesting the removal of a feature because you don’t understand/are not aware of their reasoning is unreasonable at best.

Removing these options in WvW won’t affect anybody […]

Movement Speed Boosts in the real small SPpP Maps aren’t relevant.

And in overall PvE you have your so beloved WAYPOINTS […]

In Towns you can get as it has been said also […]

I don’t know what to say if you seriously think nobody would be affected by the removal of innate speed boosts. I’ve never met anyone (well, you being the apparent exception) who doesn’t prefer a permanent 25% boost even if they can maintain permanent swiftness, because a) it doesn’t feel like there’s a big difference between 25% and 33%, and b) it’s simply much more convenient not having to keep track of the duration and spamming a skill just to travel.

Seriously though, if the innate speed boost was that useless because of zerg perma-swiftness, town NPCs, and WPs, then people would just choose another trait, pick another sigil, or buy other runes. It’s an option, you can choose not to take it if you don’t like it, but don’t suggest something that forces others to change how they play just because of your personal opinion.

I see no “compelling” reasons, why ANet shouldn’t remove the permanent movement speed 25% boosts, shifting that feature over to mounts, when players could get as compensation good improvements to their swiftness options to use those utilities, traits, rune effects ect. for better alternatives

1) Because it’s bad design to remove a feature that people like.
2) Because removing a feature people like to justify mounts will only breed more hatred toward mounts.
3) Because it would punish players who do not want mounts by removing the convenience that speed boosts sigil/traits/runes provide.
4) Because as long as ANet continues to believe that Guardians and Mesmers should not have innate speed boosts, the only way they would be willing to equalize everyone’s speed (by removing innate speed boosts) is if they nerf Guardians and Mesmers first. Do you want Guardians and Mesmers to be nerfed?

Some of them do not seem to care.

PS. also dont forget, there exists a Speed Booster, that could get also improved from +15% to +25% Speed Boost

Seriously? Suggesting a gem store item?

“If you don’t want mounts pay gems for your (one hour) innate speed boosts”? Can you honestly tell me you don’t see a big honking problem in that statement?

Reminds me of a scene from Outbreak. Awesome movie with Dustin Hoffman, I recommend it highly…

Dustin Hoffman has become aware the Military has a vaccine to a virus that is spreading and endangering millions of lives. But the military refuses to provide it because they have a weaponized form of the virus, and providing the vaccine, even if it saves lives, will weaken their weapon.

Dustin Hoffman: They want their weapon.
Assistant: even if it kills millions and risks everybody???( incredulous)
Dustin Hoffman: They want their weapon.

They don’t care how the implementation of speeed boost mounts would impact anyone else.

They want their speed boost mounts. Even if it negatively impacts the rest of the player-base? They want their speed boost mounts.

Gummy.4278:

However in my design ideas I did come up with a skill for the damage type mount that had a Charge! skill that gave a 50% speed buff to u and your party or the nearest allies for 2 or 3 seconds.

It is unnecessary to completely redesign the game for this to be implemented since it is already in the game.

Many professions can already grant a temporary speed boost to allies. If you wish to do this, the answer is simple..Play one of those professions, and use those skills.

it is ridiculous to expect Anet to redesign the game, because you don’t wish to play a profession, and use the skills that grant you what you want.

The skills are already in the game that do what you wish.

I believe that the guardian can grant a temporary speed boost to allies, and the elementalist. Maybe one of the hunter spirits, all the warrior banners.

I am sure there are others. We do not need mounted speed boost to provide you what the game has already implemented. If you don’t wish to avail yourself to what the game has already provided, then it sounds like a personal problem.

As to your " compromise" I for one, don’t seek compromise. See for players like me, the options are :

1. Mounted speed-boost
2. No mounted speed-boost.

Since we want what Anet is already providing … option 2. we do not need to compromise. You seem to feel you can say " well deep down i want 200 % speed Boost on a combat mount, so let’s compromise on a 50 % temporary speed boost combat mount?"

50 % is unbalanced. It is overpowered. Giving a Mount the ability to grant a 50 % speed boost however temporary will make those mounts mandatory. If you say you fail to understand why, that is being disingenuous.

Orpheal.8263:

@ Nerelith:

Can you please come up with something new, you keep on blubbering your same stuff now like the how many time already after another in a row? 5th? 6th? 7th?
Can’t count it anymore. Its enough!

I do not need to come up with anything new. The fact is, since all I want is the status – quo, I don’t need to come up with anything.

And yet, I do provide reasons. It’s just you do not like reading them.

Here is the thing, YOU need to come up with compelling reasons other than:

1. It would be cool.
2. I want it.

And yet you try to distract and put people on the defensive.

It is incumbent on YOU, to provide compelling reasons. Not me. This is pure distraction. YOU need to provide reasons that compell Anet.

How do we know what does or doesn’t compell Anet? there is a fool-proof way to know.

See the arguments for the change on the forums ( so far I don’t see any for speed-boost. Just a repetition of " because I want it.") and if they implement the change the arguments were compelling, if we don’t then they weren’t.

I read your " 10 step plan". Basically you want this game to cease being the game it is, be completely re-designed into a completely different game, with all the time, energy and resources that would drain from other projects,…. so that you can have a mount?

It seems to me you do not wish to play Gw2, you wish to play some other game.

Maybe you would be happier playing a game that already has mounts?

Secondly, your " enough!" may have vented some frustration, which is a good thing, sometimes it’s best to vent. Holding things In can be bad for your health. I hope that helped.

As for us:

We are content with Anet’s continued and consistent decision, to not provide speed-boost mounts.

runeblade.7514:

Obtena.7952:

runeblade.7514:

Its quite simple. There doesn’t need to be a completely new system.

?? Quite simply it does because it doesn’t exist ingame. You can think up any system you want … that doesn’t make it magically appear ingame. Skins, animations, rules for access, at a minimum. None of that exists for mounts. If they allow possibility to fly … etc… CLearly you haven’t though about what kind of mounts people are wanting here. They want to climb up on dragons and wolves, etc… because it’s pretty. The argument we need mounts for speed is nonsense because we have that. It’s about aesthetics.

It is simple, you put a player on a mount. Past MMO have tried it, and it works. Maybe you are exaggerating the difficulty of making a mount too much.

Past MMO’s have tried it. This game is not those games, this is a different game. Saying past MMO’s have tried it, is not a compelling reason to bring speed-boost mounts to this game.

Present MMO’s are also still trying it. Instead of trying to turn THIS game into a clone of those games, we prefer it remain as it is.

The fact is, that whether it be a 20,000 man-hour project or a 1 man-hour project…. it is STILL time , energy and resources that need to be invested for a reason which to me appears frivolous, that would only please a group of players that seem to have home-sickness for a feature that already exists in other games…. ( speed-boost mount) without acknowledging the fact that it already exists in this game ( Temporary Speed-boost without the mount)

From what I can gather, i appears to me that what they want is either… speed-boost with the mount attached, permanent speed-boost without needing to compromise on weapon or utility skill selection, or both.

Those are a part of Anet’s game design philosophy. If a player wants speed-boost they need to compromise by giving up something else. it is all over the game…" you want this? you need to give up that"

Which is what leads me to conclude that many players, not all, but many that want speed-boost mounts want to turn THIS game,…. into another game.

We that do not desire this change don’t wish our game to turn into a clone of some other game.

That is why I say that maybe those players would be more content playing a game that already has what they want, speed boost mounts.

We are content with Anet’s continued and consistent decision, to not ptovide speed-boost mounts.

Dusty Moon.4382:

MrIllusion.5304:

Nerelith.7360:

Maybe this is not the game for you. Blah blah blah

Maybe I’m wasting my time with you, since your arguments can be summarized into the following:

1) Go play a different game. (Not going to bother)

2) The “technology of Tyria makes it unnecessary to ride creatures”.

Utter bullkitten. The Charr have tons of mount-like vehicle that would qualify as a mount. You could even use Juju wurms and Siege Devourers in GW1.

The Norn personal story already sends you on a quest to locate a missing Charr VEHICLE.

In GW2 Hobotron got stuck because i couldn’t afford the waypoint fare. In old Lion’s Arch, there is an NPC that explains how “going though a portal is instantaneous” to another NPC. Obviously it is not a ubiquitous technology that everyone uses.

3) Clipping
Even existing armor clips. Shall we tell Charr players to “go play another game” where armor doesn’t clip?

4) Screen Clutter, Griefing, Lag

You’re kidding right? Does the speed boost in the city make us any more griefers? Any more laggy? We already have swiftness boon in the game. Has anyone blamed lag on that?

As for main reason FOR mounts, I mentioned it in my FIRST post here. A quality of life feature shouldn’t be locked into builds and skill bars and runes. Our skill bars are compact as it is

If balance is an issue, NORMALISE it so it doesn’t provide unfair advantage in gameplay.

Sorry the mounts you have stated are not really mounts, they are situational – The Wurms you cannot use out of that particular area instance. You actually become that wurm , you don’t ride on top of it.

So basically, your argument is flawed.

How is a mount = quality of life? Name one thing that it would improve besides selfish and egotistical reasons? I mean, Look at ME I am cool!! I ignore all the bling in the game because it doesn’t really do anything as to how you play. Bling doesn’t make a player better.

The skill bars are compact because it is a basic design of the game. Please understand that. It is meant to make sure players have to make compromises on their builds. They want swiftness, well, the build has to encompass that. GW1, was the same way. It is a basic design principle that A.Net has worked on since Day 1 of the company. What you are asking them to do is totally abandon that and redesign the game so you can have what you want. That in and of itself is SELFISH.

Well said. The players that wish for speed-boost mounts either do not understand, that Anet has made temporary speed-boost at the expence of some other skill… a part of the game design philosophy for this particular game.

Either they do not understand it, or they do not want to understand it. Maybe because if they understand it, then they need to accept that temporary speed-boost is all they are going to receive.

Secondly, sitting on a creature for transport, is not a part of this game’s design philosophy. Even the dolyak pack-herders while using the dolyaks to ferry items back and forth, do not ride the dolyak, they walk beside the dolyak.

Riding on a beast is pretty much against the lore of the game, and the culture displays that technologically it is not needed. Since it is not needed no one is running around riding a beast, and putting it though unnecessary pain and discomfort, just so they can say " weeeeee Look at me!!!!!"

We are content with Anet’s continuing and consistent decision, to not provide speed-boost mounts.

runeblade.7514:

MrIllusion.5304:

I want mounts. Why?

Because compromising my build to include perma 25% run speed is stupid.

Because paying through the nose for Traveler’s Runes, which provide little benefit other than perma 25% run speed, is stupid.

Because sacrificing a slot on my skill bar for perma 25% run speed is stupid.

This isn’t about having more maneuverability. People are doing this to move around faster.

Comments about not putting mounts in, what are they?

Takes up resources? Dumb. All content takes resources. Designing minis and tonics take resources. Is there a large scale protest against new minis?

Unnecessary because of waypoints? Dumb. People are already using builds with 25% perma boost. If speed boosts are unnecessary then replace signet of air and traveler’s runes and signet of locust speed boost with something else.

Because GW2 shouldn’t have mounts and players should go play other games that have it? This takes the Darwin prize. GW2 doesn’t have other pvp modes or duels or GvG or raids or “challenging content” or precursor crafting. Should this stop people from asking for them?

I like mounts and I’m prepared to support my argument with my wallet. More than RNG tickets or town clothes or more boosters or MORE BACKPIECES.

If you’re opposed to mounts let your wallet speak.

Well said. As I read the responses, there isn’t a compelling reason to be against them.

We don’t need a compelling reason to be against them, because…to get a continuation of ..No mounts , which is the status-quo, we do not need to compell Anet to do anything. Just keep telling them we are perfectly ok with their continuing decision to not provide speed-boost mounts.

You keep trying to frame this as a debate where all you need say is “well, why not mounts?” and we need to " provide compelling reasons against them."

it is just the reverse, I realize you do Not wish it to be so, but it is.

You want change… Advocates for change need to provide compelling reasons for change.

1. It would be cool,
2. I want it.
3. I cannot be bothered to swap weapons and utility skills.
4. I want permanent speed-boost
5. I want mounted combat.

All of these are desires. They are not compelling reasons.

YOU need to provide compelling reasons to Anet. Not us… Anet. We have seen all these before, and Anet has not been compelled to provide mounts.

WE that do not wish mounts don’t have to provide a single reason, since we are not asking for resources, time, and energy to be put into some redesign of the game.

All WE have to say is.." we are content with Anet’s continued decision to not provide Speed-boost mounts."

As to the " but we already have speed boost in towns" false equivalence… the argument there is not about the speed-boost, but about the mount model, and mount animations that would have to be rendered. THAT would add to screen clutter etc…

I understand no one on your side likes hearing reasoned arguments, or debating against them. It seems that some, not all…but some on your side simply wanna go * plugs up ears… goes * " lalalalalalala i can’t hear youuuuu I want it!"

We that do not want speed boost mounts continue to agree with Anet’s continued decision to not provide speed-boost mounts.

Gummy.4278:

Nerelith.7360:

So this is back to

1. It would be cool.
2 I want it.

See what I mean? These are selfish reasons. You need to provide compelling reasons that what you want is beneficial to the game. That the game, and others besides yourself, and players Like yourself would also benefit.

The Game would have to be redesigned, which takes, time, energy, and effort. You need to be convincing.

waxing poetic about How mounts On Gw2 would be super-duper awesome and feel " right". Is Not a compelling argument for why it should be added to the game. it doesn’t convince that it would be a benefit worth the effort, especially when that effort can be better put elsewhere.

The main problem with your desires is, that it means even MORE skills. Anet is having a hard time balancing the ones it has Now.

You want to add 15 new skills per mount. That means Players would have anywhere from 15 to 30 skills they could access on a mount.

That would take a LOT of work, a LOT of time. Anet is having trouble balancing the skills we have, and they’ve been at it a couple of years.

It sounds Like an interesting idea I’ll say that. But I do not think it’s going to happen anytime soon.

Personally, I wouls rather they devote the energy for doing what they can to make zerker less meta.. Improve diversity,… and give necromancers More of a desired role in dungeons.

I am not gonna debate with you about what I want being selfish reasons, I could say the same for you being selfish in your pursuit to halt mounts in any form (all the while not going on a tangent about how the game is already destroyed because of the current toys they gave us to play with)and it would have the same effect as it did on me. Basically for me the reasons no matter how selfish they seem to the opposition are as equally compelling as any other reason including “It would be cool or I want”. These two by themselves are alone enough to show that yes there is a genuine interest. I don’t have to compel or convince you of anything.

But I will say that I am saying anet has some talent and you say they don’t and they don’t even have the sense to balance some skills. Which I could offer you some of that tried and true naysayer philosophy “Maybe this game is not for you, maybe you should go play another game that has a developer team that knows what they are doing”

As far as them applying time to design of, they have already done a lot of work towards this if only you would look around and see the many things that are already capable of being mounts not to mention vehicles that are just setting in Black Citadel. Also it is a known fact that they work in teams on projects and certain dev’s work only on the items that they specialize in. With that being said the team that would work on mounts are not gonna stop the team that is working on meta builds and diversity from getting their job done. They don’t show up at work and someone says ok today we gonna fix problem x.

Ok let’s be logical.

Your side keeps saying

1. it would be cool.
2. I want it.

Is compelling.

And yet, Anet has been reading these same reasons over and over, for the past 2 years. And they have not been compelled.

All we have is three mounts. I am sure that the above is enough to let Anet know there is an interest. But Just because there is an interest does not mean the time, energy, resource allocation to give you what you wish is justified.

If it were justified, the game would be crawling with mounts, and yet all we have is three.

I am certain you feel these are compelling, but..they aren’t. And I have said this before, it is not us you have to compell. it’s anet. And these reasons are obviously not compelling to Anet. If they were…. we would have more mounts, we would have speed boost mounts, we would have combat mounts, and when it comes down to it, what do we have….

a witch’s broom that was released for halloween?

what else? two years… what else?

Gummy.4278:

A reason that I want mounts.

A lot of people say hey you want mounts go play a game that has mounts. Well I have and to be honest, if they have a subscription they tend to have a nice mounted feel. If they are free to play they tend to just plain suck kitten hair balls.
Notice I said nice, not great, wonderful, stupendous, extraordinary, or any other excessively complimentary statement.

This is where Anet comes in:
It is my good belief that Anet would make the mounted feeling be realistic and smooth. They took a lot of care in the handling of the characters, so much so that you probably don’t even notice just how well and connected you are to the movement of your own toon. It just feels natural.
When you jump you feel that the distance is right on and when you mis-jump you can tell what you did wrong. In other games, you find yourself asking. Wth?
As it pertains to mounts, for example Anet already has the lower half of a horse complete with running animations as seen on the Centaurus. If you look at them galloping, it just looks like a real horse to me on the lower extremities.

Back to a main point here. Why would I leave a game I love/am having fun playing to play another game that has inferior quality. I am fine staying here and making the suggestion that Anet use the talents they have to bring even more quality to game with an introduction to a mount system that has not quite been done in other MMO’s the same way.

I have given many suggestions on how this system could be done in my older posts in mount threads. Here is an example of some of them.

Once you acquire a mount it will be placed inside a Mount tab very similar to the Finisher tab, where you can select each mount you have unlocked for your account for that particular character to use. You will have to learn the riding skill that takes up a utility skill spot that has passive and active state. If the riding skill is on your bar passively you will ride the mount with a 25% to 33% speed buff depending on the mount, and you can be dismounted by entering combat. Being dismounted also effects a cool down before you can mount again.
Mounts will be based on gw2 trinity of damage, control, and support. This will be needed, as when you activate the riding skill this will change your skill bar to mounted combat and your mount will have a certain skill set based on what role the mount is and what weapon you are carrying. Some ideas for these skills would for example support role could use a rope to drag a downed player out of aoe’s to rez them. Another would be a skill that allows you to connect to a siege weapon and haul it to another place in a new WvW area designed with mounted combat in mind. Yes of course attaching a hitch to siege will make your mount move slower.
In this area of WvW, supply will not be transported by dolyaks unless that is the mount you are riding. Supply runs will be integral in keeping keeps as you will have to go out and get supply and bring it back individually to deposit directly into the pile. So you will feel the loss of supply a little bit harder for your team that ever before, not to mention needing to carry your own stock of supply for team needs.
I don’t think many can say that this has been done to death in other games quite like this and I am sure other commentators could help build on my ideas by giving their own examples of what skills you could get from activating the mounted skills.

So this is back to

1. It would be cool.
2 I want it.

See what I mean? These are selfish reasons. You need to provide compelling reasons that what you want is beneficial to the game. That the game, and others besides yourself, and players Like yourself would also benefit.

The Game would have to be redesigned, which takes, time, energy, and effort. You need to be convincing.

waxing poetic about How mounts On Gw2 would be super-duper awesome and feel " right". Is Not a compelling argument for why it should be added to the game. it doesn’t convince that it would be a benefit worth the effort, especially when that effort can be better put elsewhere.

The main problem with your desires is, that it means even MORE skills. Anet is having a hard time balancing the ones it has Now.

You want to add 15 new skills per mount. That means Players would have anywhere from 15 to 30 skills they could access on a mount.

That would take a LOT of work, a LOT of time. Anet is having trouble balancing the skills we have, and they’ve been at it a couple of years.

It sounds Like an interesting idea I’ll say that. But I do not think it’s going to happen anytime soon.

Personally, I wouls rather they devote the energy for doing what they can to make zerker less meta.. Improve diversity,… and give necromancers More of a desired role in dungeons.

MrIllusion.5304:

Nerelith.7360:

Oh I read it. it just seems you want the developers to totally redesign their game for completely selfish reasons. You say " this is stupid, that is stupid, this is stupid, that is stupid.’ over and over.

If so Much of the game is stupid, there are two options. Play the game even if it is stupid, and enjoy it with it’s stupidity or… play a game that is better suited for you.

I read your “Darwin prize” comment, and chose to ignore it.

Read it again.

I’m saying the “go play another game” is a poor argument for anything.

Many features were not in the game at launch.

“You want a PvE wardrobe? Go play PvP noob!”
“You want tough 80-man bosses. Go play FFXI!”
“You want trait unlocks? Go play GW1!”
“You want better-than-exotic gear threadmill? Go play WoW!”

These were added in later. Evolution. Darwinism.

They were added in later because Anet figured they can reach some balance between what players want/don’t want, preserving their core philosophy, and maintaining business objectives.

I’m not asking for instanced raids because Anet has a strong design philosophy against exclusive content. I’m not asking for better-than-ascended gear because Anet has a strong stance against gear threadmills.

Speed-boosts via mounts, to my knowledge, does not contradict any core design philosophy as communicated to their customers.

How do I know this? It’s already in the game.

I’m asking for fluffy creatures that give us speed boost. There are already NPCs in the game that give us 5 min swiftness boons.

Even if mounts don’t give speed boosts, what’s the difference between selling a miniature bipedal bird, and a gigantic bipedal bird that you can ride on?

All that talk about class balance and normalising armor is just false equivalence and strawman’s argument.

Maybe this is not the game for you. Maybe you might find greater pleasure playing a game that already has speed boost mounts. There are dozens.

The difference between selling a Miniature bi-pedal bird that walks NEXT to you, and a giant bird that you ride on? well one is… you are riding a creature, when the culture and technology of Tyria makes it unnecessary to ride creatures.

Clipping has been discussed, screen clutter has been discussed, griefing has been discussed, server lag…. frame rate decay.. discussed, etc etc etc…

I know you may not have seen these, mostly because you are coming late into this discussion. But many reasons have been given for why we are against speed boost mounts, we have also provided reasons why we are against cosmetics only mounts.

And you still have not given one compelling reason for them.

Fact is, whether " Go play another game" is a valid for or argument or not… you are not giving ANY argument at all. Saying " Anet added other things that weren’t in game" is not an argument FOR Mounts.

It may be an argument for " The benefits of occasional change" And it may show that Anet is willing to change it’s Position and redesign the game. That is NOT the same thing as an argument for mounts. What I fail to see from your side are valid…compelling arguments for why MOUNTS are a beneficial change from no mounts.

When are you going to provide compelling arguments for mounts….. ?

Mosharn.8357:

anyone ever realize the only counter argument to mounts is: waypoints and a plain no.

While I agree these are the only necessary counters, others have already been provided, and the Pro-mount side keeps not providing any, and Hoping with smoke and mirrors, and changing subjects to obfuscate that fact.

Most pro-mount Players still have not offered a single compelling argument to show that mounts would be beneficial to the game.

And saying " because then players like me that want them could have them" is not compelling.

But you are correct, the only counters we really need are " waypoints and no."

Ashkael.2859:

are mounts needed? no
but they’re a nice addition to how people want to customize themselves.

honestly, waypoints are more nonsensical than mounts. it’s weird that in the lore, the different races have used dolyaks for carrying things but never thought of riding them.

i can’t understand why people are so against them. with them being developed, resources aren’t pouring into more important things?

what utter BS. not developing mounts or capes for years now did didn’t help them develop precursor crafting right? or are people against mounts because they think that if theyre implemented and they have speed boost with them, everyone would be obligated to get them to even things out? and what’s with this ‘if i dont want or cant have them, noone should to’ mentality?

as people have mentioned, mounts could just be vanity items. they don’t need to have speed boost with them. and lol to these people who keep a stiff stance about not wanting them. when you try to reason with them and offer some valid points, they tell you to go to another game lol. they can’t accept what others are saying but also don’t have anything significant to counter other people’s reasoning so they try to bail on the conversation.

i lol everytime i read that scapegoat line. ‘well good sir my nonsensical reasons are depleted. please if you would, just go to another game before i start to doubt my beliefs and my sanity.’ sad

I have been asking those that want mounts for compelling reasons for 2 years.

1. It would be cool
2. I want it.

These are not compelling reasons. I have also given reasons against mounts for this game. If you checked the thread you will see them repeated at least 3 or 4 times.

And that is only on THIS thread. I have repeated them over and over on other threads.

While I have been one to tell people " maybe this game is not for you" it is not to " bail" on the conversation. I usually reserve that for players that advocate large scale changes to the game, to the extent that it turns Gw2 into a totally different game.

Some have said " get rid of 2/3s of the waypoints" So that then they can make mounts supposedly necessary.

Some have said they felt that having to swap weapons or utility skills to use a speed boost skill was stupid.

These particular types of players are basically wanting the game to be changed large scale, so that speed boost mounts supposedly make sense.

In effect they are wanting Gw2, to cease being the game it is, and be changed Into some other game.

When I see that a player is not happy with the game Anet has given us… to the extent that they advocate such large scale changes to Gw2, where it ceases to BE gw2, and becomes something else… I make the most common sense suggestion. Which can be summarized as follows.

" it seems you are not happy with the game the developers are providing, this can be surmised by the large scale changes you would Like to see to the game the rest of us like … maybe this is Not the game for you."

While I can understand that you might wish to believe it is done to " bail"… it isn’t.

While I can see that you wish to believe that compelling reasons are being provided by the pro-mount side of this debate… in general..on average… they aren’t.

There is no discussion to bail on… The pro-mount side of the discussion amounts to " it would be cool, and I want it." that is not an argument, and cannot be discussed.

Fact: Those wanting Mounts want the developers to put resources into making changes. Those of us that do Not wish mounts…. don’t want any change. We want the status – quo.

As such, the burden of providing compelling arguments falls on those wanting mounts. Those of us that do not want them,… we don’t have to offer a single argument against.

All we have to say is…

" we are fine with the game that Anet has provided. We agree with their continued decision to not provide speed boost mounts."

And yet.. it is interesting that although it is incumbent on you to provide compelling reasons you don’t. Although we don’t need to provide any reasons aside from the above, we do. And you claim that we aren’t engaging in discussion? That is is us that are bailing?

Where are your compelling reasons for the game benefiting from speed boost mounts that cannot be accomplished from a combination of waypoints + speed boost skills?

The only arguments I keep seeing are " it would be cool, and I want it."

PS: another tactic is to try and put the anti-mount side on the defensive. " Give us reasons against mounts"

Not quite. YOU want Anet to change the game, before they do, they need compelling reasons to do so. We don’t need any.

Just a word about “Normalizing” speed boost. I forgot to include this in my previous response.

Each class has different access to speed boost. Some have more than one speed boost skill, some have it on their weapon, so they have to give up a combat skill. others have it on a utility, so they have to be less combat effective if surprised. Some have one on both, which gives them speed boost for longer effective time. Some can grant speed boost to others.

This was done to increase class distinctions. We want to give each class a distinct flavor, and playstyle.

Maybe we should normalize armor? Is it unfair that elementalists cannot wear heavy armor? Or maybe normalize weapons? Is it unfair that thieves cannot use staves? Maybe we should normalize Utility skills? is it Unfair that rangers cannot use Null-field? maybe Normalize abilties? is it unfair that mesmer cannot charm beasts?

These differences are made to give each class a different playstyle.

The developers chose to use speed boost as a way of preserving class distinction. Normalizing it… waters down class distinction. What’s next? Giving turrets to warriors? banners to rangers? Spirits to thieves?

Or maybe just have one class.." Hero" ??

The choices Anet made for each class is part of the design of Gw2. it is pretty clear that some players want Anet to redesign the game, and turn it into a different game that is more to their liking out of selfishness, ego-centricity, and arrogance.

They seek to impose pets On players that do not wish to look at them.

And when asked for compelling reasons?

1. It would be cool. (debateable)
2. I want it. ( just because we want things doesn’t mean that it is good for everyone else to let us have them.)

Those that seek mounts need more compelling reasons. Anet heard these and was not compelled.

MrIllusion.5304:

Nerelith.7360:

From what you have said, it appears this game is Not for you. maybe you should play another game, maybe one with mounts? I can reccomend World of warcraft highly. That game has plenty of mounts.

MrIllusion.5304:

Because GW2 shouldn’t have mounts and players should go play other games that have it? This takes the Darwin prize. GW2 doesn’t have other pvp modes or duels or GvG or raids or “challenging content” or precursor crafting. Should this stop people from asking for them?

Entirely predictable. I recommend not quoting me if you can’t be bothered to read.

Oh I read it. it just seems you want the developers to totally redesign their game for completely selfish reasons. You say " this is stupid, that is stupid, this is stupid, that is stupid.’ over and over.

If so Much of the game is stupid, there are two options. Play the game even if it is stupid, and enjoy it with it’s stupidity or… play a game that is better suited for you.

I read your “Darwin prize” comment, and chose to ignore it.

Obtena.7952:

Obtena.7952:

Assuming that mounts would prevent any of that is EXTREMELY presumptuous. Players love to imagine how they would like something to work. It rarely ends up how they envision it. Even if mounts DO make it in game, I don’t believe they would compromise the class concepts and gear that is available to overcome those deficiencies.

In short, you just described great reasons for not introducing mounts …

Excellent point. If Anet implemented mounts without the speed boosts, I’d still be miffed. But then they’d be like minis that you can ride on. In which case what the hell are people arguing about here?

I believe this has been addressed. Ugly models, nonsensical potential pairings ie a charr riding a chicken… clipping issues, screen clutter, potential frame rate drop off, griefer opportunities, etc etc etc… all of this has been discussed to Orr and back. Sorry you came late to the discussion… maybe do a search for one of the million other mount threads that have been resurrected and necro-posted before this one?

I’m commenting exactly the format that I would like mounts to take – speed boosts. Which traditionally takes the form of mounts.

You may not have noticed but this is not a traditional MMO. The old rules do not apply.
This game has way points, we do not need speed boost mounts in the game, and many of us do not want them in the game.

It could come in the form of minis or feathery wings I don’t care. I want movement speed out of combat to not be tied to a specific build,

I want sub-classes. But I am not getting that either. People can want things, but as the Rolling Stones sang. " You can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find. You get what you need."

When it comes to Video games the only thing we need is access to servers, and we get that.

but normalised across the board. Every one should be able to move at the same speed out of combat. OOC speed is a Quality of Life issue, not a tactical issue.

Speed is a desire. We already have tools to move faster. if you don’t wish to avail yourself to them, By swapping weapons or swapping utilities, that is no one else’s problem.

Everyone can already move at the same speed out of combat. They just have to make do without speed boost. If they wish to move faster, they need to either swap in an offhand with speed boost, equip a two hander with speed boost, or swap in a utility with speed boost while swapping out a utility that is better suited for combat.

That is One of the choices we need to make in this game, Move faster but be less combat ready in case of surprise attacks…or… Move slower and have a more combat effective build.

THIS is the game Anet developed. THIS seems to be the game you dislike playing.

Again, you want a game other than the game the developers have developed. Maybe you should consider that this game is not for you? I can recommend World of Warcraft,…that game has plenty of mounts.