Unless you have money in the business – they DON’T have to tell you anything (and even if you do, they still don’t have to tell you anything). It is more of the ‘I am ENTITLED’ to this information because I am a player. Sorry no.
So, you want to feel good about this game. Having this information gives you nothing towards that (see my ‘ENTITLED’ comment above).
I mean, GM, Ford, Toyota, etc. don’t tell you how many people are involved with the design and engineering of a new car. The same can be said for here.
Microsft doesn’t tell you how many people are involved with the production of the Xbox one. Why would you need to know to own one? Does it make you feel any better/
Not trolling, I just don’t see why this information is important for other than complaining?
Im not sure I understand. If I want to know how many in toyota whos working on making cars “greener”, and Im not satisfied with the answer, I dont buy a toyota.
What do entitlement have to do with it?Because he said it would ‘ADD’ to his happiness in game – that is ENTITLEMENT pure and simple. Does that mean if he doesn’t get it he won’t be happy? No it means that HIS IDEA of how A.Net should be developing the game is right – that is the classic definition of entitlement.
Entitlement. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
en·ti·tle·ment
noun \-?t?-t?l-m?nt\: the condition of having a right to have, do, or get something
: the feeling or belief that you deserve to be given something (such as special privileges)
: a type of financial help provided by the government for members of a particular group
Let’s look at the bolded – he wants to know so he can be happy in game? What has one to do with the other unless he has an opinion and wants it verified – that is the classic definition of entitlement.
Nobody but A.Net, NCSoft needs to know this information, his wanting to know it is an entitlement attitude – I play this game so I need to know how A.Net is doing this – that is classic……
Where did he say he needed to know? He didn’t demand information from ANet. He didn’t claim he deserved that his whims be catered to. He asked a question. By your logic, anyone asking a question of anything is somehow entitled. Again, you don’t seem to know what that word means despite having the definition right in front of you.
This is the main issue I have with this forum’s white knights. In many cases they attack people for the slightest perceived criticism of their treasured game; often because of their own overly sensitive nature and horrific misinterpretation of posts.
Unless you have money in the business – they DON’T have to tell you anything (and even if you do, they still don’t have to tell you anything). It is more of the ‘I am ENTITLED’ to this information because I am a player. Sorry no.
So, you want to feel good about this game. Having this information gives you nothing towards that (see my ‘ENTITLED’ comment above).
I mean, GM, Ford, Toyota, etc. don’t tell you how many people are involved with the design and engineering of a new car. The same can be said for here.
Microsft doesn’t tell you how many people are involved with the production of the Xbox one. Why would you need to know to own one? Does it make you feel any better/
Not trolling, I just don’t see why this information is important for other than complaining?
Im not sure I understand. If I want to know how many in toyota whos working on making cars “greener”, and Im not satisfied with the answer, I dont buy a toyota.
What do entitlement have to do with it?Because he said it would ‘ADD’ to his happiness in game – that is ENTITLEMENT pure and simple. Does that mean if he doesn’t get it he won’t be happy? No it means that HIS IDEA of how A.Net should be developing the game is right – that is the classic definition of entitlement.
Entitlement. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
en·ti·tle·ment
noun \-?t?-t?l-m?nt\
: the condition of having a right to have, do, or get something
: the feeling or belief that you deserve to be given something (such as special privileges)
: a type of financial help provided by the government for members of a particular group
“Ben Miller: The Guild Wars business model has worked really, really well for us. We’re blown away by the success of the first game. We were three guys with an idea and now we’re a 130 person company supporting one of the biggest online role-playing games in the market. The Guild Wars business model has worked really, really well for us.
But the fundamental business model is not going to change. You buy the game once, you can play it for as long as you want. And the new content we introduce in the future you can choose to buy or not to buy."
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/the-best-things-in-life-are-free-interview?page=2
Can we stop with the whole “expansion business model doesn’t work” nonsense?
What other conclusions could I draw from the text you bolded other that showing that they implied that GW2 would also be financed via expansions.
The conclusion I made explicitly clear in the only sentence of my own. You know, the sentence that I used the quotes to prove correct?
Again, have the maturity to admit you made a completely knee-jerk response to a perceived criticism that in actuality didn’t exist. A fault lying entirely with you.
By stating that you are implying it could work here. The whole gist of this thread is that ANet gave up on an income model that worked in GW to focus on a cash shop for GW2 and it’s somehow China’s fault. The players who are talking about it not working are talking about not working in this game, not the model in general.
I’m implying nothing. If I wanted to state that it would work in GW2, I would have written that. However, I didn’t write that. I wrote what I wrote and what I wrote is what I meant.
Don’t blame me for your misinterpretation of a very simple post. You chose to respond to what you wanted me to have written and not what I actually wrote. At least exercise some maturity and own up to the fact that you failed to actually understand what I wrote before writing a knee-jerk response.
That’s what I got from New Train’s first post. That they promised to use that means to finance GW2’s free to play after purchase.
Then you got it wrong, especially since my last sentence made my point abundantly clear. Heck, it was the only sentence of mine, the rest being quotes from ANet.
I have no idea how you misinterpreted a single very explicit sentence so badly.
Again, here it is for you convenience:
Can we stop with the whole “expansion business model doesn’t work” nonsense?
I’m sorry. Where in that rambling post did you prove that the expansion business model was unsuccessful? You know, the point I was making, which you completely ignored.
Never said the expansion business model was unsuccessful.
Then why on earth are you responding to a post where the ONLY point being made was that the expansion model was successful and people claiming otherwise are mistaken?
Because you cherry picked quotes from that article. The rest was a general post about the thread.
Cherry-picked? The quotes are not taken out of context in the least and fully support my point that the expansion model is successful.
This is the problem with forum white knights (whether or not you are one). They immediately jump on the defensive when there is any perceived criticism of their beloved game. In many cases, they wind up arguing against things ANet has directly stated to be true, such as in this case.
And you left out the paragraph that was between the two you used, the one I included that talked about the size and frequency of the expansion, why? Is it because it could be used to support the notion of Living Story content? “… or mini-expansions on a more frequent cycle …” could easily mean what was delivered to us as the Living Story. But lets not include that, it disagrees with your assertion that they promised paid expansions as a means to generate income.
Living world expansions are not the expansion business model, you don’t pay for them. Irrelevant information. Besides the second paragraph I included specifically states they’re discussing paid expansions.
Again, it seems like you don’t even know what point you’re arguing against. Perhaps, instead of knee-jerk replying, you take a second to realize what my point actually was and respond to that. The fact that you think I’m asserting “they promised paid expansions as a means to generate income” shows you have no idea what my point was, despite me telling you multiple times.
I’m sorry. Where in that rambling post did you prove that the expansion business model was unsuccessful? You know, the point I was making, which you completely ignored.
Never said the expansion business model was unsuccessful.
Then why on earth are you responding to a post where the ONLY point being made was that the expansion model was successful and people claiming otherwise are mistaken?
Because you cherry picked quotes from that article. The rest was a general post about the thread.
Cherry-picked? The quotes are not taken out of context in the least and fully support my point that the expansion model is successful.
This is the problem with forum white knights (whether or not you are one). They immediately jump on the defensive when there is any perceived criticism of their beloved game. In many cases, they wind up arguing against things ANet has directly stated to be true, such as in this case.
I’m sorry. Where in that rambling post did you prove that the expansion business model was unsuccessful? You know, the point I was making, which you completely ignored.
Never said the expansion business model was unsuccessful.
Then why on earth are you responding to a post where the ONLY point being made was that the expansion model was successful and people claiming otherwise are mistaken?
How old is that? 7 years. Plans change. The original rumors had GW2 in 2009 and later 2010 or 11. Something went into a hand basket to ship estimates that badly. Maybe they found it’s more difficult to build open world content than instanced and realized that a proper expansion, meaning large enough with enough activities, would take too long to do so they switched to plan B.
I’ve been rereading some of the earliest articles about the game on a number of sites. The one noticeable thing lost was the Hero system. But they stuck to their guns with B2P, no subscription model for a full blown MMO. They just needed a way to pay for continuing development and make it optional. So we have a totally optional gem shop selling cosmetic and minor convenience items as well as the standard character slots and account bank expansions. They even talked about way back then doing away with guild vs guild and going world vs world PvP play. But gee what a surprise that’s what they delivered. How dare they.
Oh BTW, you left out a paragraph between those two.
Whether that means Guild Wars 2 will have expansions, or the same kind of release cycle as Guild Wars, or mini-expansions on a more frequent cycle – I don’t know the exact answer. But I think we have time here to really find out what works best for the game and for the community.
Can’t get much more mini than every two weeks. And guess what, they’re free.
I’m sorry. Where in that rambling post did you prove that the expansion business model was unsuccessful? You know, the point I was making, which you completely ignored.
(edited by NewTrain.7549)
“Ben Miller: The Guild Wars business model has worked really, really well for us. We’re blown away by the success of the first game. We were three guys with an idea and now we’re a 130 person company supporting one of the biggest online role-playing games in the market. We’re certainly not going to turn our back on the business model that got us here.
But the fundamental business model is not going to change. You buy the game once, you can play it for as long as you want. And the new content we introduce in the future you can choose to buy or not to buy."
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/the-best-things-in-life-are-free-interview?page=2
Can we stop with the whole “expansion business model doesn’t work” nonsense?
(edited by NewTrain.7549)
Blame Caesar, otherwise it would have been June
Actually it would have been august.
Nope it would have been September.
July = Julius Caesar
Augustus = Augustus Caesar (Octavian)
wait…so…what ever did happen to the CDI’s?
A new CDI starts this coming week.
I think his question was more akin to “did they ever take players’ suggestions or did they just ignore the feedback?”
I think part of the disappointment comes from the trust alot of people who had enough of WoW and generic WoW clones put into Anets words (who build up quite a good reputation as a developer with GW1) they said pre release.
And just two month after release everything ascended downhill.
This is very true. A lot of us GW1 fans expected a sequel which built on everything we loved about the game (in no small part being led on by marketing hype). Instead we got Guild Wars 2, a game which bears almost no resemblance to GW1.
Awww really did I waste my time trying to communicate with such a person?
Well, my bad.
I guess ANET will appreciate the feedback from ‘you’.You waste your time trying to place your dislikes for this game (your prerogative), on top of my likes for this game. Is the game perfect, NO, can it be, YES! Will it be, might rightfully turn out as about perfect as you can get with constructive feedback. Is any game perfect, guess only you can decide that, right?
In other words: “I want to be able to state an opinion with no fear of anyone offering a contrary opinion.”
It boggles my mind that people will join “zerk only” groups when they have no desire or ability to play with zerk only gear. It’s like taking an AP history class in highschool when you have no desire to read or write.
If you want to claim people are being elitist simply because they want to finish dungeon content in the fastest way possible, your anger is is misdirected. Blame ANet for its extremely shallow dungeon/boss design and its inability to change the DPS-fest PvE meta. I’m really sorry that your Healing Power build isn’t as efficient or useful as a zerk build, but that’s not the fault of the players. Stop blaming them for wanting to finish ANet’s dungeons quickly and stop demanding they accept your inefficient build into a speedrun.
That all being said, DPS meters and inspect options aren’t necessarily bad options. Since ANet insists on its DPS-only PvE philosophy, why not give players the means to form and enforce the types of groups that they want. Heck, if I was creating an Olympic 4×100 relay team, I wouldn’t try to choose my runners without the help of a timing system to measure performance.
On the issue of sub vs. cash-shop: There’s nothing inherently flawed with a cash-shop payment model. It becomes a problem when new content developed is just a poorly disguised means of getting people to use the cash-shop or is simply exclusive to the cash-shop. It’s become apparent that the development decisions made about GW2 recently are made with the cash-shop as a priority well above fun, polish, story, balance etc.
(edited by NewTrain.7549)
There’s been interviews and statements from Colin, I think, that stated that.
Again, has ANet proven that it adheres to its “interviews and statements”?
I did play GW1, extensively.
You claim that these new areas of the map are important and warrant access…and if that was true, why did ANet give us the joke that was LS season 1?
You claim there are more elder dragons that need to be slain…and if ANet considered that a priority, why did we get Scarlet.
Listen, I’m not saying your predictions aren’t logical, I’m just saying it’s clear ANet’s plans for this game aren’t. Trying to apply logic to anything they do is a recipe for disappointment.
Because releasing new areas and new massive fights takes time, and they would rather give is a somewhat stand-alone story while working on that, instead of giving us nothing at all for 2 years while they work on said stuff?
We KNOW that they are working on more stuff than the Living Story, it is quite likely that at least some of that stuff IS tied to those areas and the elder dragons.Yes there are Elder Dragons to slay. There was also an Elder Dragon that had not woken up yet. The whole of Season 1 was building up to said Dragon waking up. Simple as that.
And your proof for these claims is…where? If the only proof you have to offer is your opinion, I’m not convinced. Simple as that.
To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.
Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.
Adding in new maps does not mean the temporary LS content becomes permanent. People ask for expansions or some for expansion-like content. That’s asking for maps and new races and so on. However when people ask for the LS to not be temporary anymore it’s exactly that. The LS not being a patch that releases some temporary available content, activities and rewards.
You’ll see-eventually many more maps will-open up.
If after nearly 1.75 years they have yet to do so (aside from Southsun), what makes you so sure they will in the future?
He’s betting. It’s a sound bet, though, for a simple reason: if it doesn’t happen, the game dies. Why? People’s been complaining about lack of solid, fresh and expansion-worthy permanent content for months now. The devs must have noticed it by now. It’s both a bet and a hope.
If I was playing roulette and for 20 months straight it never landed on black, I certainly wouldn’t bet on black.
Actually not just a bet-just see the map and all the blacked out regions. If you played the original, you know how important some of these regions were. Add that up to the remaining dragons needed to be slain, and that’s the only solution-permanent maps, and permanent content as we move forward.
I did play GW1, extensively.
You claim that these new areas of the map are important and warrant access…and if that was true, why did ANet give us the joke that was LS season 1?
You claim there are more elder dragons that need to be slain…and if ANet considered that a priority, why did we get Scarlet.
Listen, I’m not saying your predictions aren’t logical, I’m just saying it’s clear ANet’s plans for this game aren’t. Trying to apply logic to anything they do is a recipe for disappointment.
To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.
Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.
Adding in new maps does not mean the temporary LS content becomes permanent. People ask for expansions or some for expansion-like content. That’s asking for maps and new races and so on. However when people ask for the LS to not be temporary anymore it’s exactly that. The LS not being a patch that releases some temporary available content, activities and rewards.
You’ll see-eventually many more maps will-open up.
If after nearly 1.75 years they have yet to do so (aside from Southsun), what makes you so sure they will in the future?
He’s betting. It’s a sound bet, though, for a simple reason: if it doesn’t happen, the game dies. Why? People’s been complaining about lack of solid, fresh and expansion-worthy permanent content for months now. The devs must have noticed it by now. It’s both a bet and a hope.
If I was playing roulette and for 20 months straight it never landed on black, I certainly wouldn’t bet on black.
To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.
Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.
Adding in new maps does not mean the temporary LS content becomes permanent. People ask for expansions or some for expansion-like content. That’s asking for maps and new races and so on. However when people ask for the LS to not be temporary anymore it’s exactly that. The LS not being a patch that releases some temporary available content, activities and rewards.
You’ll see-eventually many more maps will-open up.
If after nearly 1.75 years they have yet to do so (aside from Southsun), what makes you so sure they will in the future?
Relying on expansions alone is simply not realistic for GW2.
I don’t buy this. Where is your proof or is it just pure speculation?
I did not ask for both. Just expansions is fine.
I have worked in enough software companies to know that ANet doesn’t have the budget to sit back and develop an expansion while having little to zero cash flow for that period of time.
So all this talk of expansion is really a waste of time…..
Tell that to the last software project I worked on, which went over budget by $5 million.
You can purchase Guild Wars 3 from the gem store for 26,000 gems after you unlock it with 100,000 AP.
With some of the amounts I see here, you could have bought modern reproduction armor, a modern reproduction sword, and been a knight in real life.
^If we don’t have Dueling areas (purely in the technical sense) I think there need to be solutions to avoid people from getting harassed (mostly for those that get no joy out of a dueling system).
i think the “opt-in” duel flag (available via Gem store) is the best solution. If someone wants to duel you and you don’t want to, you could always be like “Man, I would love to duel, but i can’t afford the stupid duel flag!”
The is a legitimate reason why you couldn’t duel, beyond not wanting to. I mean, a harasser could still bully you, just like they could now or at any time in the games future, but i think this is the best sort of tool to proactively deal with any instances of harassment that may occur.
Maybe improve the report/block/ignore system to, but that is an issue for a different thread.
A few pages ago, I was really put off by the idea to purchase the ability from the company that I’ve always seen as a default feature in any MMO, but now, it seems like a fairly legit solution actually.
Still think that:
- Well placed and large Dueling areas, or…
- A Opt-in Dueling feature with a tag that’s disabled by default, which isn’t allowed in the more crowded parts of the main cities…
… is a better idea.Yeah, i’m not a big fan of putting everything behind a pay-wall. Which is why i would just spend gold on it, haha.
But putting it in the Gem store would validate the time/effort/resources expended to create the feature. Not to mention the added effort to support extra caveats that would need to be added to appease those who think clicking “decline” isn’t enough.
This is why I suggested the idea. It gives those who really want to duel an avenue to do such and allows those who don’t want to duel a legitimate out other than “I just don’t want to.” I see this is a particularly good way to minimize the threat of harassment.
You both just proved my point with your posts, thank you. Perhaps had you read my posts in the appropriate context, you’d see you support my point, not contradict it.
That’s all you’ve got? Sorry, but “You’re supporting my point because I say you are.” is not a very convincing argument.
Let’s let look at your “convincing arguments” then, shall we?
I’m also very reluctant to encourage developers to produce inferior products…
On my lonesome, I have purchased multiple games that lacked features that were very important to me. GW2 is one of them. Yet, I bought it because it was the best of a bad lot.
Coming from the guy who said these two things in the same post. Sorry if I don’t put much stock in your thinking.
You both just proved my point with your posts, thank you. Perhaps had you read my posts in the appropriate context, you’d see you support my point, not contradict it.
Your entire response is based upon the flawed premise that everything in the world can be divided into two categories; important and not important.
No. My argument began in response to your use of, “important” in that way. My position has been one of varying degrees of importance from my first response to your posts in this thread. Had you referred to other’s opinion of dueling as being not as important as other elements I would have never responded to you. Instead you stated that dueling was not important to them at all.
Therefore the use of “not as important” or “not that important” is perfectly valid
Of course it is. Such was part of my point. I made that point in the post you are responding to here.
This simple fact negates your entire argument.
How can a fact that I am arguing, which you repeat here, negate itself ?
Perhaps you should re-read what you’ve written. It seems as if you’ve gotten yourself confused. Either that or you’re confused about what my point is.
I’ll reiterate for you. If you purchase a product without a certain feature and then refuse to pay for that feature when it is made available for your product, you have demonstrated said feature is not important to you (and since we’ve fallen into arguing semantics; please remember “important” is not an absolute here, but exists on a scale with “not important” meaning that the relative level of importance on said scale is quite low). This is what the demand in supply and demand is all about. it is a fact of economics. I’m not sure how or why you’re attempting to argue against this.
You self-contradict in your first two paragraphs.
My apologies. My post should have said, “I was making no such argument,” rather than, “I am making no such argument,” as I made no such argument in the post where you claimed I did. I did not entertain the notion until after you made the claim.
On your second point, it is not logical to purchase an MMO because it someday might contain a feature you find important, especially when competing products do contain said feature. If the presence or lack of that feature is not a deciding factor in your purchase, it follows that it’s not that important.
I disagree. If GW2 has 9 out of the ten features that I find important to my enjoyment of an MMO but other games that do include the one missing from GW2 have only 8 of those ten features it is completely logical to choose GW2 over the other options, perhaps with the hop of encouraging the developer to add the tenth.
You next section is another non-sequitur. Clearly long hairstyles are not that important to you as it failed to make or break your purchase.
I provided an example of how something that is important to me in the game was not sufficient to override other elements, multiple such, without changing the fact that it is important. Keep in mind that there is a rather large difference between your previous assertions of, “not important,” and the current assertions of, “not as important,” or, “not that important.”
Would you buy a car without brakes? No. Why? Brakes are an important feature. Would you buy a car that in a color you didn’t particularly like? Perhaps, if everything else met your standards. Why? Because color isn’t nearly as important as brakes are.
I am not sure of the applicability of this example. It is illegal (at least in my state) to sell a car without brakes. I am not sure that comparing illegal activity to car color is particularly valid. Still, of course brakes are more important than color, doesn’t mean that color is unimportant. Really the entire discussion is altered by the change from your previous stance of, “not important,” to one of, “not as important as X.” I do not disagree at all that multiple elements, each of importance to the consumer, might even so be of varying degree of importance. Again, for me, choosing to buy a game that has 9/10 of the elements I desire does not mean that the tenth element is not important, merely that no one element overrides all of the others.
It follows that if a feature is important enough to your enjoyment of a product you will either: A) purchase a product with contains that feature as a basic one or
pay an additional fee to add it to an already owned product. This is not opinion, this is fact.
No, it is an opinion. People settle all of the time. They then complain because they are not satisfied with the product. Neither you, nor I, get to decide what another person finds important.
It’s one of the basic tenants of economics. It’s called demand.
Not really. People demand things that are not important to them all of the time. Demand means that people are willing to buy something, not that they consider it important.
Your entire response is based upon the flawed premise that everything in the world can be divided into two categories; important and not important. Every entity’s importance exists in relation to another entity’s importance. Importance does not exist in a vacuum. Therefore the use of “not as important” or “not that important” is perfectly valid because ALL importance exists in degrees and not absolutes. This simple fact negates your entire argument.
I understand what you’re saying, but you’re trying to argue that it’s logical to purchase a product based on what it could potentially become and not what it actually is.
First, I am making no such argument. People make illogical purchases all of the time. Its commonplace. In my experience people make purchase decision illogically more often than they do logically. Look at our food choices, soda, cigarettes, alcohol, etc.
Second, the MMO genre is, to some degree, based on what the game may become rather than what it is. They launch with bugs and we are supposed to expect fixes. They launch with less content than their predecessors and we expect them to grow. They launch without features that we expect to be added in time. I would argue that it is illogical, or just plain poor consumerism to buy an MMO without the expectation that it will change, grow, etc. Aren’t there entire sections of the TOS/licensing agreement included for just that reason ?
If we were buying MMOs based solely on what they are rather than what they are and what they might become we would be fools to buy them at all in my opinion.
To me, that’s a completely illogical position. Why would any purchase anything when there’s only a possibility that it might satisfy your demand ESPECIALLY when there are competing products that do satisfy your demand.
Probably because the player’s desire encompasses more than just dueling. Perhaps those other games do not meet the player’s desires in the other ten or twenty ways he measures his satisfaction with an MMO of choice. I would like some additional (long) hairstyles for male humans. I have requested such since before launch. I will continue to make the request (or support others making the same request). By your logic I should not have bought GW2, which has many aesthetic and game play elements that I very much appreciate, because one particular hairstyle option is not available. That seems very illogical to me.
refusing to pay extra for it as an added feature after launch proves it’s of little importance to the poster
It proves nothing of the sort. Your statement does imply that you believe that paying for something is the only way to demonstrate its importance to oneself. I can assure you that not everyone shares that view (right or wrong).
You self-contradict in your first two paragraphs. You state you are not arguing in support of purchasing a product for what it could potentially become and then you go ahead and justify why it’s logical to purchase an MMO for what it could potentially become. On your second point, it is not logical to purchase an MMO because it someday might contain a feature you find important, especially when competing products do contain said feature. If the presence or lack of that feature is not a deciding factor in your purchase, it follows that it’s not that important.
You next section is another non-sequitur. Clearly long hairstyles are not that important to you as it failed to make or break your purchase. Would you buy a car without brakes? No. Why? Brakes are an important feature. Would you buy a car that in a color you didn’t particularly like? Perhaps, if everything else met your standards. Why? Because color isn’t nearly as important as brakes are.
It follows that if a feature is important enough to your enjoyment of a product you will either: A) purchase a product with contains that feature as a basic one or
pay an additional fee to add it to an already owned product. This is not opinion, this is fact. It’s one of the basic tenants of economics. It’s called demand.
This is a non-sequitur. I made no mention of intention (or not) to include after launch. We’re discussing basic features. When something is claimed as a “basic feature” it means something included with the product at the time of initial purchase for no extra cost. It was very clear dueling was not a basic feature of GW2.
The individual you quoted stated that he believed that dueling should be free. He made no claim of, “false advertising,” or, “basic feature.” I pointed out that other playable content, as well as QOL features added post launch, were implemented without additional cost for players as precedent for adding dueling as a free option.
I understand what you’re saying, but you’re trying to argue that it’s logical to purchase a product based on what it could potentially become and not what it actually is. To me, that’s a completely illogical position. Why would any purchase anything when there’s only a possibility that it might satisfy your demand ESPECIALLY when there are competing products that do satisfy your demand.
So that beings us to the discussion of basic features. Dueling was not a basic feature at launch. There was no promise of dueling ever being added. The poster argues it “should have” been in the game. On what premise? That the competition has it? If it was such an important feature why not play the competition? Fact is, it was not in the game at launch and refusing to pay extra for it as an added feature after launch proves it’s of little importance to the poster.
Again, I understand your point but you’re defending an completely illogical assertion.
But it wasn’t there in the first place and it was obvious it wasn’t there. There was no false advertising, it was stated dueling would not be in the game at launch, yet you bought it anyway.
I did not see any mention that dueling was intended to not be included in the game by a dev. I have seen a dev post indicating that they desire to put dueling into the game. Someone seeing that might subsequently buy the game with the expectation that they would, at some point, possibly have the option to engage in open world dueling in GW2.
Stating that something will not be included for launch does not mean that it is not intended to be included ever.
Then again the Teq revamp did not exist at launch, nor did Southsun, nor the living story, guild halls, the account wallet, etc. Any content released post launch by definition did not exist at launch…
This is a non-sequitur. I made no mention of intention (or not) to include after launch. We’re discussing basic features. When something is claimed as a “basic feature” it means something included with the product at the time of initial purchase for no extra cost. It was very clear dueling was not a basic feature of GW2.
Two nights ago in Taekwondo I beat someone 2 belts higher than me by a score of 12-3.
Here, you all want dueling so bad, I’ve got your solution.
Gem Store Item – 800 gems – Dueling Flag: Use issues a challenge to selected other player in possession of a dueling flag. If used on a player without a dueling flag, there is no effect and your dueling flag goes on a 15 sec cooldown. May not be used in instances, sPvP, or WvW.
Make it unlimited and make it if it’s in the bank it’s not considered in possession. One inventory slot isn’t going to hinder too many and will let players who may not want to always want to have to worry about being asked for a duel a means to “auto-decline”.
And while a dueling boon is active, nearby foes (including other duelers, if that’s possible) can’t harm you. Meaning griefers not in the duel can’t run that mob into your duel to ruin it.
You also can’t hurt other foes and you aren’t counted as in the event as to not effect scaling of nearby events.
Yes, as I imagined the item it would be unlimited use, inventory counts as possession bank does not, and if you want to auto-decline you leave said item in the bank.
As for invulnerability to the environment; no. This is where you need to be selective about where you use the item.
How about this? No.
I’ll accept that if they sold Elder Dragon boss battle behind a gem shop purchase. Not an expansion, not a dungeon, just a single elder dragon boss. No one is allowed to fight it except people that bought the privilege to fight it.
Then clearly dueling isn’t that important a feature to you if you’re unwilling to pay for it (either through gold earned in game or real money).
Dueling should be a free feature. This is disgusting practice to sell features that should have been there in the first place.
But it wasn’t there in the first place and it was obvious it wasn’t there. There was no false advertising, it was stated dueling would not be in the game at launch, yet you bought it anyway.
So, with that in mind, I reiterate that dueling obviously is not that important to you if you refuse to pay for it (either in in-game currency or real money).
PS: Even though I suggested a method for dueling to get into the game that would address most people’s concerns, I received a death threat PM from someone who called me a “carebear”.
Oh and that “you will see, its sooooooooo excitiiiiiing…someday, somewhere, something, something!!!” PR line is getting really old.
It may have worked after release, not 2 years after…
It’s amazing how people are still falling for that hype.
“Oh, all the previous content was garbage, but they promise this time it’ll be great. I’ll assume it’s going to be great!”
Here, you all want dueling so bad, I’ve got your solution.
Gem Store Item – 800 gems – Dueling Flag: Use issues a challenge to selected other player in possession of a dueling flag. If used on a player without a dueling flag, there is no effect and your dueling flag goes on a 15 sec cooldown. May not be used in instances, sPvP, or WvW.
Make it unlimited and make it if it’s in the bank it’s not considered in possession. One inventory slot isn’t going to hinder too many and will let players who may not want to always want to have to worry about being asked for a duel a means to “auto-decline”.
And while a dueling boon is active, nearby foes (including other duelers, if that’s possible) can’t harm you. Meaning griefers not in the duel can’t run that mob into your duel to ruin it.
You also can’t hurt other foes and you aren’t counted as in the event as to not effect scaling of nearby events.
Yes, as I imagined the item it would be unlimited use, inventory counts as possession bank does not, and if you want to auto-decline you leave said item in the bank.
As for invulnerability to the environment; no. This is where you need to be selective about where you use the item.
How about this? No.
I’ll accept that if they sold Elder Dragon boss battle behind a gem shop purchase. Not an expansion, not a dungeon, just a single elder dragon boss. No one is allowed to fight it except people that bought the privilege to fight it.
Then clearly dueling isn’t that important a feature to you if you’re unwilling to pay for it (either through gold earned in game or real money).
Play your way (as long it’s the way I say).
Here, you all want dueling so bad, I’ve got your solution.
Gem Store Item – 800 gems – Dueling Flag: Use issues a challenge to selected other player in possession of a dueling flag. If used on a player without a dueling flag, there is no effect and your dueling flag goes on a 15 sec cooldown. May not be used in instances, sPvP, or WvW.
With all the hype that never coalesced into decent content I simply won’t accept another round of “Just wait, it’ll be awesome when it arrives!” ANet hasn’t delivered on that phrase yet and I won’t be holding my breath for it.
Dead horse. Stick. Beating.
I can’t believe that some people are actually defending zerg content. If you’re playing an RPG (MMO or otherwise) don’t you want to be the hero? Why would you want to be just a faceless drone in the swarm (since you already are in real life)?
You’re only faceless if you choose to be. And, there’s something fun about being part of a larger thing that’s actually getting stuff done (And you see it getting stuff done). That said, zerging was a LOT more fun before the megaserver update, when the trains were manageable in size, didn’t dominate the landscape, and was all on one server.
No, you’re faceless. You scream to the high heavens “I’m significant!” all you want, but it won’t make it true.
In a zerg, you are as special and unique as a single worker ant in a hive of thousands. Your presence makes no difference. If you’re there doing your job, great. If you’re not, someone else is. If you die, someone else steps in. Your contribution is not noticeable, significant, or appreciated.
This is not what you want to hear. This is fact.
The Must not have been a Lot of fun, for a Player like you. Trust me, for me, it was a blast.
See since it took a week to level up…. then it made sense to go out and hunt panther pelts in the karanas to then sell on the bazaar. The you took the money you earned, and Bough the armor upgrade you needed.
Is this what you call " grinding for gold"? Funny for us it was called " Roleplaying a character that needs to save up for new armor, and Knows a leatherworker, that will buy their pelts off them… and Knowing a tailor, that will then take payment for the Armor, she needed. Oh maybe a straight exchange of cloth for armor might work? After all..I am NOT dealing with an impoersonal Auction House…but dealing with a Player.. maybe barter works?"
People do not realize that taking a good 6 to 9 months to level to level cap, actually makes crafting sensible. Today’s gamers have cheated themselves by demanding " an end to grinding" all they did was demand " an end to gameplay."
Sounds like a job, not a game. I hope your real life job is as enjoyable as you make this out to be, since it’s virtually the same thing (repetitive activity for long hours for an arguably meager reward).
I can’t believe that some people are actually defending zerg content. If you’re playing an RPG (MMO or otherwise) don’t you want to be the hero? Why would you want to be just a faceless drone in the swarm (since you already are in real life)?
I fought a Taekwondo match with 3 broken toes. I ran a 48 second 400m with two broken metatarsals. Neither of those things were in a video game though.
You want dueling? Pick a martial art of your choice. Join a dojo. Go on sparring nights. Desire fulfilled.
Look up what WoW added between release and the first expansion. Just google it. There is a wiki.
Compare it to GW2, than you might understand why people are upset.
Look up how much you had to pay to play WoW between release and the first expansion, and you’ll understand why you shouldn’t be upset.
So you’re saying that GW2 will always have inferior content delivery because of its B2P/gem store business model?
Look at how much content you got over the previous months (yes the temporary content) that kept you busy playing.
The content I got that kept me busy playing was absolute nil. I don’t find the living story content engaging in the least and have stopped playing it.
Look up what WoW added between release and the first expansion. Just google it. There is a wiki.
Compare it to GW2, than you might understand why people are upset.
Look up how much you had to pay to play WoW between release and the first expansion, and you’ll understand why you shouldn’t be upset.
So you’re saying that GW2 will always have inferior content delivery because of its B2P/gem store business model?
Absolutely, compared to WoW. And you know WoW has their own ‘Gem’ Store as well as a subscription, right?
I was just curious because quite a few people are saying things like “the living story provides expansion quality content for free”. I just wanted to make sure you recognized that GW2’s living story is worth exactly what you paid for it…very little to nothing. If you’re willing to accept that, fine. I guess some people were hoping (largely because ANet said so) that Living Story content would be high quality and akin to a paid expansion.
Look up what WoW added between release and the first expansion. Just google it. There is a wiki.
Compare it to GW2, than you might understand why people are upset.
Look up how much you had to pay to play WoW between release and the first expansion, and you’ll understand why you shouldn’t be upset.
So you’re saying that GW2 will always have inferior content delivery because of its B2P/gem store business model?