Guild Wars 2

We get to the total POLAR OPPOSITE of “diversity” – there are only 10 combination of 3 trait lines and everyone in a profession will be one of those 10. The. End. (the specialization with be another mix of 10 clusters of 3 lines).

Each of those lines will only 27 ways of traiting, down from 418.

We get simplicity. We get hammered towards the middle in terms of performance. We do NOT get diversity.

A Volcano.2510:

I also think the new system is pretty good.

If you are more restrictive, you force people to CHOOSE and this creates build diversity.

Dropping to 27 configurations per trait line from 418 is not creating diversity. It’s slaughtering it. Don’t pretend it’s anything else.

Now those 27 can all be good/fun/double-plus-positive/whatever, but “Diverse” they are not.

That is yet to be proven. Losing the ability to take 2-3 adept or 2 master level traits in a single line is a savage blow to a lot of existing builds.

I’m not saying the new game won’t be fun, but its only vaguely related to the game we are playing now…

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi all,

I’ll be pulling your questions out of Twitch chat, this forum post, and posts all over the forums and having our design team address them.

First the math:

• Right now a single trait line take to 6 points has 418 possible arrangements of traits. Ignoring anything other than 6/6/2 set-ups (and there are many other combinations that have well regarded examples) that gives 31,450,320 traits combinations per class.

• The new system allows a total of 27 arrangements per line. If you like two adept level traits, tough, you can’t have them. Ever. Being locked to exactly 6/6/6 means there is a total of 10 possible unique line combinations bringing the total number of trait set-ups per class to 196,830 (27^3×10). Add another 196,830 for each elite line they introduce.

• At HoT launch including the one elite spec-line per class we are going to drop down to one-eightieth (1/80 or 1.25%) of our current range of choices.

This is not subject to discussion. This is math. Almost 99% of all potential Build Diversity will be annihilated (and I’ve hedged heavily in favor of the new system by ignoring 6/4/2/2 builds and other non-standard but fun/effective set-ups).

Now THE QUESTION:

Was getting rid of bad choices really worth wiping out 99% of all choices?

I used nothing but 6/6/1 spreads to demonstrate we lost almost 99% of our build diversity. None of this 3/3/3/3/2 straw-man junk.

Math is in the main response thread feel free to go there and laugh it off.

Some math for those who don’t think we’re maybe losing a bit of diversity with the new Specializations set-up.

• Right now a single trait line take to 6 points has 418 possible arrangements of traits. Ignoring anything other than 6/6/2 set-ups (and there are many other combinations that have well regarded examples) that gives 31,450,320 traits combinations per class.

• The new system allows a total of 27 arrangements per line. If you like two adept level traits, tough, you can’t have them. Ever. Being locked to exactly 6/6/6 means there is a total of 10 possible unique line combinations bringing the total number of trait set-ups per class to 196,830 (27^3×10). Add another 196,830 for each elite line they introduce.

• At HoT launch including the one elite spec-line per class we are going to drop down to one-eightieth (1/80 or 1.25%) of our current range of choices.

This is not subject to discussion. This is math. Almost 99% of all potential Build Diversity will be annihilated (and I’ve hedged heavily in favor of the new system by ignoring 6/4/2/2 builds and other non-standard but fun/effective set-ups).

I hope that the massive push to center where there are fewer terrible builds and no clever ones is worth it. That will be a topic for discussion for a long time to come .

Contact Support. No one here can help you.

And do it quickly. There’s a 24 hour grace period on names. It may extend to the rest of the character file.

Khenzy.9348:

I hate when a company knee-jerk reacts to complaints and proposes a quick and poorly thought out way to end them.

‘Kneejerk’ would imply that turret engies haven’t been under scrutiny for a while now. We all know that’s not true. Actual ‘kneejerk’ response would have been taking action 6 months ago… We all know that didn’t happen either.

Try a different way of belittling the Devs into reversing a decision you don’t like, because they are laughing out loud at that attempt.

I was just in a match where an engineer on the other side was in perma-stealth the entire match. obviously I couldn’t target them to report them directly.

Match took place at 9:32 AM PST, Temple, my character was Nike Incarnate.

Please review. Thanks!

Do you see release information on the main Heart of Thorns info page?

Me neither.

Ragnarox.9601:

They gave us trait which increase vitality by 300. But only if you go heavy into vitality line. It’s some kind of compensation by them but it is really bad….

I’ve been trying it out lately and actually I find it kinda amazing. It’s close to a 25% increase in HP. You can get a lot more of your tricks into play with that extra buffer.

Ohoni.6057:

The vast majority of the game caters to you and you are worried about a PvP exclusive set of armor, backpiece, and mini.

There’s a whole paragraph. . .

Geez, reading comprehension these days.

Geeze, awareness of audience these days. You thought you’d post this in this sub-forum and not be looked at a slightly worse than a pop-up virus?

insanemaniac.2456:

the thing is, no spec in the game ever considered to be OP has ever been overperforming by more than about 20%. turrets are not overperforming so much that a “33% hp nerf” (that increasing damage done to them by 50% would effect) would do anything but simply make them unviable.

I think you are grossly overestimating the contribution of crits to damage. And again, the simple fact is people that are investing in crit or condition damage should not have that investment nullified.

And I can’t be the only game designer that rolls their eyes when people confuse viable with top tier competitiveness.

insanemaniac.2456:

will poison reduce healing from autotool installation?

Good question. I assume so. That’s the functionality people using poison deserve to have.

will you be tweaking turret hp to find a new balance point for the extra dps theyll suddenly be subjected to?

turrets immediately taking 50% more power damage from dps specs with current hp levels seems imbalanced. turrets immediately taking condi damage with current hp levels seems imbalanced.

Since they are viewed as over-performing now (or the change wouldn’t be happening at all), I think we can be pretty sure they’re NOT looking to take additional steps that keep them on par with current performance.

Josh Davis.6015:

We’d love to hear your feedback on these changes. Feel free to respond below with your comments.

My feedback is even though I run a turret Engineer on Engineer days in the daily quests rotation, there is just no good reason people who invest in Precision or condition damage builds should have that investment nullified when attacking turrets.

Its a great change and it won’t stop me from running my turret engineer, it’ll just make me be more aware of placement so they are less likely to get cross-infected by epidemic .

Josh Davis.6015:

Considering most minions/summoned pets are already susceptible to the aforementioned changes we feel that this is a fair way to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game.

So when are we going to be able to hit/critical hit Warrior BANNERS?

Only fun for Rangers? Last night I showed up healing Guard (consecrations), was paired with a bunker Guard (shouts) and we persuaded our 2 necros and a thief buddies to stick close to us. 500 to 75. We had all kinds of fun, the Ranger on the other side? Less so, I’m sure.

While I prefer shortbow on my Ranger, understanding how to fight longbow and SoS is just part of knowing the game.

Rapid fire it very predictable in its use and very avoidable. Its a ranger with along bow. It’s going ot happen. Be aware of cover, know that you’re gonna have a steady stream of shots coming in and husband your dodges for when they will mean the most.

Similarly when you see SoS triggered, KNOW WHAT IT IS YOU ARE SEEING and act accordingly. Hold you big hits if you are direct damage, keep up the conditions if you aren’t and know you need to outlast them a few seconds. use your stuns – pass the time playing cards behind a rock. whatever. Not that difficult to manage and again wildly predictable on any Ranger PvP build.

DaShi.1368:

Why should rangers get new pets? Unless there is something for other professions too, I’m against it.

And if other professions had to COLLECT THEIR CLASS MECHANIC FROM THE LANDSCAPE you might possibly have a point to make.

Oh, but you don’t.

I’m sure there’s an employ up on the 5th floor that tracks sales on a day to day basis. And that employee knows very well that I’m not the only one who spends hundreds of dollars a year in the gem store and yet has zero outfits. I would never expect an 8-9 digit-per-anum company to pivot on my wishes, but you’re fooling yourself if you think there isn’t an aggregate effect.

I don’t begrudge the existence of outfits – clearly they make enough money to support themselves as a branch of activity. But if ANet would like to reach more of a market, they need to release them as armor skins too, as they are clearly built on the same engine. Either separately or bundled skin-set & outfit.

Oh look, another outfit.

Oh look, me still not paying for parts I can’t mix and match.

I don’t disagree that it’s pretty and would find a place on several of my characters, but bottom line is I will not pay to slit my own throat on the type of product I actually want – armor skins. Wallet’s gotta vote on this one.

“Dear ANet, please screw over people who have put in effort I haven’t”

Josh Davis.6015:

While I don’t think the OP’s suggestion is exactly the change we’re going to go with, I thought I’d drop by and let you all know that the effectiveness of turret engineer is something we’re looking into very closely right now. Once our plans are a bit more concrete I’ll give an update.

Hmm. Vague, yet subtly cryptic.

I’ll consider the possibility of being intrigued when something actually coalesces out of the vaporware .

I would like torch skill #4 Zealots Flame to proc the Inner Fire trait (Fury while you are on fire) the way its OBVIOUSLY MEANT TO.

There is a world of difference between ‘need’ and ‘want’. And misuse of those terms is a fairly good reason why Devs ignore what otherwise might have been compelling arguments.

Sorin.4310:

There are 26 rings that can come from bonus chest. The chance of getting the same 2 5 times (I’m going to ignore infused):

(2/26)^5 = 0.000002693, or 0.0002693%.

Wow. That is so NOT how you calculate doubles.

For starters that’s the chance of specific doubles in a sample size of 2. The chance of getting the same as a ring you already have is 1:26 ~ almost 4%. So not olny does it happen, it happens all the time. But moreover the chance you even beginning to look for doubles doesn’t start until you have one. The sample bias at play here is off the friken charts.

What would be a trillion times weirder is if a person getting perfectly reasonable RNG results out of a field of millions of outcomes didn’t come on the boards to claim exceptionalism…

Are you a statistical outlier? Yeah definitely. Are you bugged? No probably not.

Exactly .

Since I already have the black one, I’m waiting for the white ones, the natural falcon-tone ones, the red ones, the gold ones…

They’ll all be along eventually.

I found battle presence and staff on my guard let me easily keep all 5 NPCs alive in my side’s Lord room while pounding down 3 players or 2 players + hero. Cleansing flame also helps keep your lord from getting condi-smashed. And the whole NPC squad’s fully healed before the next assault. Meanwhile the 4 folks on my team on offense usually chewed the other lord to bits without that lord ever getting a single heal.

Not as glamorous as a solo kill, but you can buy a LOT of time with one or two people announcing at the start of match they’ll guard the lord’s room once it’s breached.

Guardian Staff is crazy strong in stronghold (AoE swiftness, heals and barriers that hang up NPC mercs quite nicely) and every class has access to +25% speed runes.

And I finally sprang for the Norn T3 top for my Ice-brooded “Jora Corrupted” (wielding Coldsnap of course!)

Had a great time with the beta. Rather than change the players, here’s a few thoughts on tweaking the NPCs (and their role in comebacks).

• Lord. Slightly faster auto attack speed. Do NOT add self-healing – leave that duty to players.

• Guards. One of the first pair and both of the last pair should be replaced with Elites. Add a third guard to the third pair. It is far too easy to crack the first gate solo in seconds. The last gate should really require you to either dig in or flood the area with archers.

• Archers. Need their attack speed increased by 50% so they are less trivial to dodge. Their basic attack should apply a 2 second slow. Their special shots should include a 1 second root. Make ignoring these guys while running down skritt agonizing. +25% damage against the guards so they can meaningfully assist against the elites added above.

• Gatebusters. These need to be 5-10% slower and reduce their HP by 10%-15%. Crossing lanes to kill these should be more appealing. And that in turn makes shepherding them more rewarding. Consider giving them ‘+50% buff duration’ so applying Regeneration, Protection, Swiftness & Retaliation to gatebusters is more of a thing. Finally, when they get to a gate they need to spread out slightly. No standing together to get cleaved into oblivion once they are on task. Smashing gates is where they should shine. Getting creamed en route is where players should shine.

• Summoning Doors. When your side is behind, gain a chance while spawning NPCs to not consume supply. This chance can start at 10% and maybe get as high as 30% if you are really deep in kitten vs. the other team. This adds a stronger comeback mechanics while still requiring players to be active in their own salvation.

phys.7689:

you sure it takes 4 months though?
lets see… ffxiv anounced june 23 date for their expansion on 3/08

You just described a 3.5 month gap . Sure there’s some vagaries of when info goes out that could lead to ‘more than 3 months, less than 4’, but the point stands people are WAY over anxious when the info WILL be widely available many pay periods in advance.

Heart of Thorns is not sneaking up on anyone, honest.

xev.9476:

Uh, is it a physical box? Did they say? More than a few computer games have opted for purely digital releases, since boxed purchases have been in decline for a decade.

As much as ArenaNet is looking forward to scoring easy money off of all of GW2’s existing devotes, this is a critical opportunity to put the game in front of people who aren’t playing yet… and the #1 way you do that is to take up physical space on a shelf where gamers are browsing.

Many/most of us here will likely buy it digitally… but we’re not the (new) people the boxes are targeting.

Put July out of your mind. HoT is a physical box. That means it needs shelf space. That means retailers will be notified of the release date with precision at least 4 months in advance. They still don’t know, so we know the date is at least 4 months away.

My suggestions are primarily about tweaking the NPCs~

• Lord. Slightly faster auto attack speed. Do NOT add self-healing – leave that duty to players.

• Guards. One of the first pair and both of the last pair should be replaced with Elites. Add a third guard to the third pair. It is far too easy to crack the first gate solo in seconds. The last gate should really require you to either dig in or flood the area with archers.

• Archers. Need their attack speed increased by 50% so they are less trivial to dodge. Their basic attack should apply a 2 second slow. Their special shots should include a 1 second root. Make ignoring these guys while running down skritt agonizing. +25% damage against the guards so they can meaningfully assist against the elites added above.

• Gatebusters. These need to be 5-10% slower and reduce their HP by 10%-15%. Crossing lanes to kill these should be more appealing. And that in turn makes shepherding them more rewarding. Consider giving them ‘+50% buff duration’ so applying Regeneration, Protection, Swiftness & Retaliation to gatebusters is more of a thing. Finally, when they get to a gate they need to spread out slightly. No standing together to get cleaved into oblivion once they are on task. Smashing gates is where they should shine. Getting creamed en route is where players should shine.

• Summoning Doors. When your side is behind, gain a chance while spawning NPCs to not consume supply. This chance can start at 10% and maybe get as high as 30% if you are really deep in kitten vs. the other team. This adds a stronger comeback mechanics while still requiring players to be active in their own salvation.

With Caudecus’s Manor in the PvP mix I finally got the pants I’ve been eyeing for my heavy .

I’m gonna shred a level 21 salad Guardian I have been ignoring and refill the slot with a Sylvari Revenant since they get a racially thematic Legend to channel. I’m also making a Charr revenant, as I just don’t have enough Charr.

I expect the Charr to hit 80 first though.

I think it’s revealing we need the ability to have different builds for each map or at least each match type.

A single general build like we have now plus the option to customize our loadout for specific maps if they pop. I can switch on the fly if I have to, but why should I have to?

I think my impression is rapidly becoming ‘I love that some people hate it’.

Probably because its got pivotal roles that can’t be filled by “DPS moar!” characters. Swiftness, healing, and situational awareness are all needed along with solid-to-over-the-top DPS.

I have been having a great time — players for the most part have forgotten healing builds can exist in this game and the stuff I’ve been able to do healing our side’s Lord has been hilarious. Hold off 2 characters and a summoned hero by myself with the Lord and the 5 troops come away barely scratched thanks to Guardian Staff #2 and #4 and Battle Presence. Lord heals up to full in the gaps between them stragling in, while the rest of my team 4v3s there other side’s face in and I can see their Lord never gets a heal ever.

And swiftness is super important. The map is HUGE and if you’re not moving at all times you’re doing it wrong.

Squee!

Your thread title doesn’t say anything but “DAMASK IS BROKEN” — which we already know the powers that be don’t agree is true. If they did, they’d fix it now, not 4+ months from now.

Map rewards may allow more targeted pursuit of cloth, but the revelation of map rewards was so off handed and so not a part of the main HoT page I wouldn’t get too carried away hanging your hopes on it.

If you aren’t playing a thief, definitely take Norn for you race – they have a elite that gives insanely long stealth.

You’d also have to scale down the stats…

And do all new animations…

And new weapons skills…

Ug. The ‘it can’t be perfect so why even try to be better’ defense. Please, just don’t. Game design is an actual profession because IT CAN BE BETTER.

I extend a little respect to people who have the Liadri miniature. That’s maybe the only prestigious item in the game that I can think of.

I know exactly what they did to earn that and there’s no work around BS exploit to do it.

Compared to that, Legendaries are a tired joke. I hope the second wave does better.

Blind and Aegis not scaling with any attributes has at least as much to do with the success of ’Zerker as the mini-godmode of dodging.

If the Aegis only absorbed a portion of a hit based off your Toughness, you’d see people gearing differently… instantly.

The high base efficiency of un-geared self-heals and kitten poor scaling of healing power is another way in which “Zerker isn’t especially right, just all other stat combos are wrong.”

I think Trahearne was well intentioned, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t being influenced much more subtly.

Either way, Trahearn is going to make a great outdoor necro-themed Raid-Boss .

Think of it as a fairly mild lesson in “I am not the most important person in the party.”

Fact of the matter is in any encounter that I know two or more ways to do, if I’m in a pug I ASK people beforehand how this is going to go down. If no one has a plan, then I suggest one.

No communication = no teamwork

Donari.5237:

Finally, my ’vari necro in the Oumphalos Chamber. The shapes and colors in there made for a lot of compositional fun! At the end she took up guard before Mother, determined to block any further harm to Her …

Very nicely composed.

How are they capturing?