Never have I seen a community complain about something so much. My god, this combo has an infinite amount of counters that multiple people have listed throughout this thread. Clearly this is everyone’s first MMO and first experience with a stealth mechanic because thieves are easily countered by every class.
Shut up and learn from your mistakes. The combat in this game is so simplistic compared to basically every MMO ever, yet people want their hands held because being a brainless ham is too easy.
says the thief that cried a couple of months ago about confusion, because he couldnt spam 2222222212222221 yeah sure an entire community needs to learn to play, because u are so awesome and so godlike that u can play any other class and kill any other class with no problems whatsoever.
This always bothered me. Thieves cried and cried over retaliation and confusion, which I never had a problem with even before they were nerfed. Retal and Confusion were never OP. You just had to pay attention and not mindlessly spam skills like the majority of thieves do all the time. But they cried and cried until it was nerfed despite the fact that there were plenty of ways to deal with both. Yeah confusion mesmers and retal guardians were annoying, but killable on any class if you didn’t just mindlessly spam and kill yourself. Yet thieves refuse to accept the fact that stealth, despite having no counters like confusion and retal have, is incredibly op. I wouldn’t care if they permastealthed if there was an active way to counter it that all non stealth classes had access to. And no, other classes shouldn’t have to carry around a trap to remove stealth. Do thieves have to carry around traps to strip boons off of people? Other classes should have traits or utility or weapon skills that can cause reveal.
^In other words, I want to keep facerolling over smaller servers we face so I can stay in the upper tiers and not be punished for it. because in this game, numbers >actual skill.
Retaliation has been nerfed severely to the point it’s only dangerous to stupid people who mindlessly spam skills. It’s not even a threat anymore. I’ve never been killed dropping meteors on a group. I have no idea what you could possibly be doing that it’s killing you. Even before the unnecessary nerf it wasn’t that big of a deal.
You could always move to a less stacked server. More people equals more lag. I never have lag on the server we’re on unless RNG decides to pit us against one of the omega zergs with 100 people running around on all maps 24/7. I for one hope they don’t do anything about the lag when there’s a ridiculous amount of people on the map. That will just encourage further bandwagon server stacking and zerging. Maybe people will take a hint and filter down into some of the lesser populated servers.
I actually really dislike the celestial gear after going through the trouble of making some. Stats are more balanced, but you lose ALOT of toughness and power. Am I the only one thinking celestial gear needs a buff given how much of a pain in the sack it is to get? The individual stats are what, half what it would be on something else? I’d be a lot happier if the stats were about 75% instead of less than half of what I could get by taking a zerker ring or something else. It will take forever to craft a whole set because of the stupid time gated thing requiring charged quartz that you can only make once a day. They should buff it given what a pain it is to get. Yeah I realize we get a little bit of everything from celestial, but that’s still no excuse. Half as effective at everything instead of being good at a few things isn’t that great in my opinion.
I’ve seen people jump over walls too and get inside towers. without having to break down walls or doors. A lot of people seem to like using some sort of teleport hack. there also seems to be some sort of instant death thing as well. I got hit by something when I was fighting someone, instant death. Not even downed, dead completely. and no I hadn’t been downed previously, cuz I know you instantly die if you’d been downed multiple times. Just hit and instantly dead. Didn’t even show anything unusual in the combat log, just the pitiful amount of damage they had been doing to me previously and I know I sure as hell didn’t instantly die from a few minor hits dealing less than 1k damage. I should just start running around with something recording constantly so I can have proof of all the underhanded crap I see.
World bonuses maybe? Seems odd. I’m going to have to pay closer attention now to that. It would be very, very wierd if there is some sort of penalty for killing a lot.
Nice fight by Golanta guys. Our 3 man group held out for quite awhile atleast before you managed to take us down. Was fun killing you all multiple times before you came back with 10 people to kill us.
I was just thinking, if they do give eles GS or rifle at some point, we should get those moves from Aspect Arena as our abilities on it. I don’t really care what weapon they put it on actually. I just want them. They all seem very elementalist-ish, and are way better than a lot of our current skills. At the very least I want them to take one of the useless abilities off of focus for fire attunement and give us that fire dash thing or unstable nova. I’d love to be able to toss that past a cliff and suck a whole zerg to their deaths.
I honestly don’t get why they don’t just make it so that there’s a limit to how many people can be on the map depending on the lowest population server there. For example, server A only has 20 people on, so server B and C are only allowed to have 20 people go in WvW. The super stacked bandwagon servers would eventually get sick of the longer queues and filter down into the lower populated ones until all things were even. No one likes going up against 100 vs 20 and being outmanned even in their primetime.
I don’t particularly care who wins. Never really have. For me it’s all about having decent fights roaming, and I got plenty of that during this match up. That being said, I really look forward to facing both Mag And CD again in the future. You both seem to have a lot more decent roamers than you had before in the previous times we’ve fought you. Maybe a lot of you got bored of running with the zerg and decided to wander? I don’t know. Whatever it is, keep it up. I had a lot of good fights.
It doesn’t need to be nerfed. Are people really that stupid that they can’t bring an immobilize skill with them? Its the same bull that got RTL nerfed when you could always immobilize someone before they got away with it. But no, its zerker everything and only damage abilities, and if someone gets away they’re OP right? Typical zergling mentality. That’s why we can’t have nice things. when you see him transforming, freaking immobilize him! he’s not going anywhere and they’re stupidly easy to kill transformed since they don’t have access to their regular skills.
I love my non-stealth thief. People really doesn’t expect a thief that doesn’t stealth, so I win most of the fights
I wouldn’t trade my thief for any other roaming profession
I’m guessing you did like me and invested heavily in the acrobatics trait line? I tried to make a super evasive ninja and just avoid getting hit rather than hide like a coward like most thieves. cuz lets face it, stealthing and hitting someone who can’t see you takes zero skill. I’d rather not be carried by a broken mechanic.
^yeah I know it’s not everyone. Most of the Mags who I’ve interacted with have been respectful and honorable. I guess I just had the bad luck of running into a few jerks. We have a few bad players like that as well. For the most part my experience in this match up has been fun and I’ve had a lot of great fights with Mag and CD.
Don’t say that. Because if they nerf mobility, given how brilliant Anet is at making decisions, they’ll nerf everyone except thieves who in all honesty are the ones who need the biggest nerf in mobility to begin with. It never made sense to me that someone who’s stealthed could run so fast. How the hell do you sneak around while sprinting? I’d like to know how to accomplish that, i’d be robbing banks left and right if I could sneak around running at top speed and not be noticed. But I guess this is a game and doesn’t have to make sense despite the fact that in every other MMO when a character is sneaking around in stealth their mobility is actually REDUCED cuz ya know, they’re sneaking around!
Well I learned today while there are a lot of pretty cool people on Maguuma, there’s also a few jerks who like being total kittens. Was sitting in the south camp on YB borderland with a few Mags,1 CD guy and a couple other people from YB. we already had the whole map, so there wasn’t much left to do on there anyway so I was just screwing around. We all sat down, in our town clothes. There was one charr from Mag who was playing on that flute and was pretty good. We were just hanging out, obviously not fighting eachother since we were in our town clothes. even had a costume brawl with one of them who I threw a bouquet of roses at. Anyway, two thieves with the guild tag NOVA roll up. I assume they’re just going to sit down with us. They stealth and start ganking everyone. obviously we died since we were still in our town clothes, sitting down. I was able to react and get away a bit before eventually being killed by the other thief. who then proceeded to laugh and dance as if they’d accomplished something great by killing a bunch of people who didn’t even fight back. Real classy guys. I now know that people in your guild have no sense honor whatsoever and that I should attack you on sight.
Im honestly surprised you died to NOVA in town clothes.
I know, they suck in an actual fight. I probably could have killed them with my bouquet of roses if I had actually fought back. But I stood there like an idiot thinking they would stop and we could continue what we were doing. Plus I was still standing next to the other people who we were sitting with before they rolled up and I didn’t want to hit them if I started swinging at those 2 morons. So yeah, it’s partially my fault as well for not fighting back.
I still wouldn’t want to see it nerfed just because a few bads refuse to bring an immobilize skill with them and think they can just mow everything down with all attack skills before it can get away. I remember how much it sucked when RTL got nerfed. And no the sword wouldn’t make up for it unless mist form hadn’t also been nerfed. If you’re in a situation where you need to run, standing there for 4 seconds to summon the kitten thing isn’t helping. If I had known RTL and mist form was going to be nerfed, I would have made my ele a norn and just dealt with the fact that I find them physically repulsive. If I hadn’t invested so much time in my guardian, i’d remake him as a norn since guardian is so painfully slow and their elites aren’t that fantastic anyway. the invincibility one is nice, but stealthing and running away is better.
I love these changes! I already healed for an insane amount with my bunker build enough that I could stand still and regen more than most people could hurt me for with the occasional shout heal to undo what little damage they did to me. Now I can afford to lose some of the healing gear and add some damage gear and ACTUALLY be able to do some damage while still being just as tanky as I was before woohoo!
I don’t even have a norn and I say no to this. (I don’t like them, they’re too big) Rarely is it used. and there’s nothing preventing you from immobilizing them before they take off. Do you just stand there and gawk at them when you see them transform? And Asurans have radiation field which is pretty devastating with it pulsing poison and weakness, and humans have the avatar of melandru, which you could transform into, root them then run away, sylvari have a root thing as well I think. I forget what charr have, but I assume they have something that can be just as annoying as well. The point is, all races have some situational skills that can be annoying. But that’s all they are, situational and easily countered. Why do you think barely anyone uses them? They’re mostly just for fun.
I guess so. But i’m still going to be cautious of them from now on and just assume that they’re hostile. Better safe than sorry. I didn’t even fight back because I thought that maybe the other people there would be like “hey knock off the crap, we’re just hanging out”. But they didn’t seem like they would have listened anyway. We have a few people like that on YB too unfortunately. if people are having a duel or just hanging out, they butt in and then act like they’re awesome and dance on the corpse of the person they kill who usually doesn’t even fight back.
Well I learned today while there are a lot of pretty cool people on Maguuma, there’s also a few jerks who like being total kittens. Was sitting in the south camp on YB borderland with a few Mags,1 CD guy and a couple other people from YB. we already had the whole map, so there wasn’t much left to do on there anyway so I was just screwing around. We all sat down, in our town clothes. There was one charr from Mag who was playing on that flute and was pretty good. We were just hanging out, obviously not fighting eachother since we were in our town clothes. even had a costume brawl with one of them who I threw a bouquet of roses at. Anyway, two thieves with the guild tag NOVA roll up. I assume they’re just going to sit down with us. They stealth and start ganking everyone. obviously we died since we were still in our town clothes, sitting down. I was able to react and get away a bit before eventually being killed by the other thief. who then proceeded to laugh and dance as if they’d accomplished something great by killing a bunch of people who didn’t even fight back. Real classy guys. I now know that people in your guild have no sense honor whatsoever and that I should attack you on sight.
The number of bandwagon permastealth thieves went up, so it became necessity to build tankier. Can’t afford to roam anymore without being able to take a hit.
@Nikkinella – you sound like someone who didn’t really explore elementalist capabilities all that well. give an ele a heavy armor and in right hands it will be unkillable. Also, dmg spec played ele can not just deal more dmg than guardian but can over scale his dmg at least twice. to do that you have to be in D/D build as it is most damaging and mobile build which, I am aware, is not exactly what the original poster is looking for.
Arguably, you can also deal a tons of dmg in PvE as lot of mobs tend not to move to much by landing ele’s devastating AoE attacks. I really don’t understand how is that to much to bare. All you have to do is swap from fire to earth.
@Rhaegar – Not to be snide or anything but I honestly think you would be better off playing something else. This is my conclusion based on what you posted. There is really no class in this game that would fit perfectly (best case it may fit half way) to your description.
Anyways, let me suggest few things:
1. Play ranger with short bow and long bow (or axe+smt. its also great in PvE as it hits multiple targets) and command your pet to avoid combat. This is what I’m doing at the moment although my motivation is completely different (to make myself entirely self sufficient as a ranger and to make the game even more challenging)
2. Play great sword mesmer as someone above me already suggested (although there is some basic skill required to manage your illusions properly)
3. Each class in the game can be at least decent at range (although you excluded engineers completely because of the ‘no guns’ policy). Go for bows on thief or warrior, scepter on guardian (i personally don’t like it but it is a decent choice nevertheless). Lastly, necros has two good ranged options in scepter and staff. A lot of both AoE and variety of conditions
No, i’m speaking as someone who played ele in beta before our overall damage was reduced by over 60%. We’re weak as hell compared to what we used to be able to do. And you’ve obviously never played guardian extensively if you think they can’t outshine ele now in the damage department.
Don’t suggest things like this! Knowing Anet and how “brilliant” they are sometimes, they may actually do it. And I do not want my warrior yelling YOLO or SWAG or anyof that other lame crap.
I love the idea of the war dogs. If i’m not mistaken are warriors the only class that doesn’t have some sort of summon? Eles have elementals, mesmers have clones, necros have their undead thingies, engineers have turrets, thieves have thieves’ guild, rangers can summon those spirits, guardians have spirit weapons.
Yeah we need some sort of summon. We can summon flags, but they don’t do anything. I mean, the buffs are nice but ranger summons can buff and heal too and move around (if traited for it) and do stuff. I really want the dogs now. They could even make it a trait, when we summon our banners we also summon a dog that will carry the banners for us. No more people walking off with our banners. the dogs stay near us and follow us around and will use the banners skills even stabbing enemies with it.
Just thought of something else. I would hate to rely on stupid AI as to when the dogs would use the skills. So an additional command bar would pop up next to our adrenaline meter that would have all the commands that the banners had. That way we wouldn’t have to pick up our banners if we wanted to use them and give up the skills of our weapons for it. the dogs will loyally follow by our side at all times and we can just click on the skill bar that pops up and still be effective in combat because we still have our weapons in our hands and not a banner.
It is possible to make a ranged caster build with guardian if that’s the style you prefer. I was using a scepter/focus build with spirit weapons for awhile. Plays kind of like a caster, but with heavy armor and way more survivability than an ele. You deal WAY more damage too than you could ever dream of doing with ele. If you spec totally for spirit weapons and take the trait that makes them not be destroyed when you command them and the ones that make them last longer its really good. you can just sit back smiting things with the scepter while commanding your weapons to smash and stab things. plus unlike ele you have the option of swapping weapons if things get right in your face. You can always swap to a sword if things get right up on you.
Also note that. they nerfed elementalists ability to mist form stomp.
False? I did some mist stomps just yesterday..
I believe what he/she is trying to say is that going INTO mistform now interrupts casting actions, like going into Elixir S does with engineers. Because why nerf elementalists when you can nerf engineers as well?
That’s what I meant. Yet thieves can still stealth stomp and stealth res all they want.
This has been a fun match up so far. Encountered a lot of good roaming groups from both Mag And CD. It’s been really great so far compared to last week which was a zergfest. If things keep going this way I wouldn’t mind fighting both of your servers again next week.
Hmm…we need to fix that. Err I mean what’s your guild tag? O:-)
haha. DAOC. you can usually find 3 of us wandering around. there’s only 3 or 4 in the guild total I think. We’ll sometimes let 1 or 2 more tag along with us since we have a lot of friends in other guilds who like to roam without a huge crowd. We only join up with the rest of the people when major stuff like taking/defending SM is happening since who in their right mind would pass up all that WXP? we’ll also jump in tower captures if we happen to be walking by when it happens but generally try to avoid most of our people.
Ooh, I think I saw you guys yesterday south of Rogue’s. I was D/D ele at the time I think. I was kinda chasing you but also being chased by a large YB zerg too.
I may have seen you too. I remember there being someone near us, then the rest of our people showed up so we took off. we tend to not want to stick around all of them and will just bail when our zerg shows up unless they’re taking a tower or something, then we’ll get in on it then leave. We spend most of our time hanging deep in enemy territory. When the rest of my group isn’t on and i’m by myself i’ll hang around SM regardless of who owns it. Usually killing guards if its in enemy hands waiting for someone to come out. Oh and I don’t like jumping people when they don’t know i’m there. I’ll always wave or bow or something first. that’s how you know it’s me.
I say everyone make a thief, and ban all other classes. Thief Wars.
Just. Think. About. It.
Little Thief on Thief action, oh the good fun to be had.
Honestly, just think about 20 thieves vs 20 thieves. It would be a battle to do a backstab, but with everyone around you trying to keep your team in stealth. WIN
No thank you. I’ve had thief vs thief battles before and i’d prefer root canal over doing it again. 30 minute long fights of constantly resetting everything. It’s more a battle of patience than anything else. first person to get frustrated over how aggravating it is and slips up loses.
Rangers need a buff. Everyone knows that. I miss how my snow leopard used to be. And Eles need their damage back where it was in beta. That’s why I laugh at thieves who say they got their damage nerfed. they took maybe less than 10% cut in their burst damage and complain. Eles got nerfed by over 60%. They had amazing burst builds back in beta. But thieves who stood still in the giant red circles complained and that got cut by a ridiculous amount. now they can stand in the aoe and regen what little damage we do. The only way you can deal enough damage to them with AoE to be a threat now is being glassy, which leaves you open to being 1 shotted by their insane burst, which they don’t have to sacrifice any of their defensive capabilities for.
^This. And thieves practically remove conditions every time they fart. So saying, just lock them down with conditions is pretty stupid. They have a ridiculous amount of stunbreakers and condition cleanses.
Also note that. they nerfed elementalists ability to mist form stomp. it cancels the stomp if you mist form now. Yet thieves can still stealth stomp. That needs to be nerfed as well. it should destealth them if they go in for a stomp. All they really need to do to make thief less broken is make it so that stealth doesn’t stack. if they nerfed stealth itself, it would kind of mess thief up. but if they make it so that stealth no longer stacks, it will make the permastealth bullcrap less annoying and no longer possible.
That would actually make fire worth playing around with. I always wanted to mainly invest in fire, till I discovered how much it sucked. None of the current traits really work well with anything, besides fire. The traitline is basically a self nerf the way it is now. You’re pretty much forced to stay in fire to make the most out of the majority of the traits which cuts down your potential a lot by not using the other elements as often.
they need to change them so they’re deployed instantaneously rather than taking 4 seconds to set up. there should also be no animation when deploying it. just a sneaky thing you drop and then it gets activated.
You really will need to carry all types of weapons with you and switch depending on the situation. Only reason I didn’t suggest another weapon is because you said you wanted to use staff. You can do decent with it in most situations if you really want to keep using staff, but there are a lot of situations where other weapons are more optimal. Not saying you can’t try to use staff constantly, it will just make your life alot easier if you have the other weapons as well. I’m kinda the same way when it comes to staff. I prefer it over the other weapons and try to use it primarily, but its not easy. It was possible in beta to do everything just using staff, but they nerfed it so badly that can’t be done anymore.
Apparently we’re going to be getting different weapons soon. so we’re going to have to carry even more crap with us and all of us are going to have to learn new ways of playing.
yes! Half of my 2nd bank tab is just for my badges. and I still have atleast 5 stacks in my inventory on every character. I’m saving them in the hopes they’ll add extra stuff one day that i’d actually want so I can just get it right away and not have to wait.
you could always try 0/0/20/20/30. that works really well for a defensive setup with any weapon. for earth traits take protection on auras, and either geomancer’s freedom or rock solid. Creatures in Orr will try to knock you down and swarm you. The stability and extra reduction from damage from the protection is nice. you have the magnetic aura plus casting eruption then frozen ground on top of it to give you frost aura if you’re standing on it. frost aura will reduce the damage by another 10%. take cleansing water so when you switch to water it will cure status effects, since everything in Orr will poison you or worse. And whatever other trait you want in water after that, doesn’t matter for PvE. and the standard traits in arcana, elemental attunement, blasting staff, evasive arcana. i’d suggest a zerker staff and maybe knights armor and some soldiers if you feel the need for more hp. You can get some cavalier accessories from Balthazar temple which gives power, tough and crit damage. So you’ll be able to put out a little pain despite being tanky. maybe some clerics stuff too if you feel you lack healing. That’s just what I’ve found effective for me so far. But you have alot of options and should experiment with different things till you find something that suits your playstyle. What works for one person may not work for someone else or be as fun for them, so experiment.
Every single class is capable of atleast one attack that can burst for large amounts. And you have to pump up crit chance and damage a lot to do that, which means sacrificing a lot of defense. If someone hit you that hard and you survive it, turn around and hit him with everything you’ve got, because he wont be able to take a beating for very long. It’s a high risk, high reward kind of thing for every class who can do that, except thief who has high reward and no risk because of stealth and can just wear cavaliers gear and still be tanky and still hit like a truck because of that trait that gives them 100% crit chance when attacking from stealth. And warrior has the unfortunate fate of having most of their moves being very obviously telegraphed, so you know what’s coming. If you get 1 shot by a warrior, you deserve it because you weren’t paying attention.
If I’m alone I’ll use 0/30/10/20/10 S/D. Have 40% crit chance unbuffed, almost 100% crit damage, nearly 3k armor. Hits hard and is hard to kill 1 vs 1. less effective against big groups. If i’m running with the regular group of 3 -4 that I hang with, 0/0/20/20/30 with the stability trait or 0/10/0/30/30 with aurashare. 0/10/0/30/30 isn’t as good as it used to be alone after all the massive unnecessary nerfs, but is still decent at supporting a group.
You’d have to spec to be relatively defensive or be really really good at avoiding getting hit if you want to go glass. Some things in Orr hit really hard. I’ve never tried it with staff myself, but I can solo most of the champion monsters that wander around, like that golem thing relatively easy with D/D. it should be possible though. AI isn’t that bright so as long as you avoid getting hit with any of the really bad stuff, you should be fine. I’m actually tempted to try it now with staff to see if I can take out that golem or maybe the risen giant champion. I’d imagine the giant would be easy with staff since you wont need to get close to all of his grub throwing crap and can just nuke him from a distance.
