Mantras are fine. Their weak is that you can’t do anything while charging. I hope the devs would allow us to dodge while casting them (just Mantras) or something else. Sometimes I really have problems with healing myself when alot mobs have knockdown or stun effects …
@OP
This has been suggested before. While this would effectively half our healing abilty (with Healing Mantra) (well, reduce to 71% or 51%), this would kill some traits. The triple mantra would be almost pointless. More def while casting or healing after cast wouldn’t make sense anymore, too. I still prefer the current mechanics.
@Esplen’s post
The OP said that healing mantra has a 10s recharge for two charges and the passive version would refill one charge per 10s. This reduces the effective healing per time. But the OP forgot to add 3.25s casttime and 1s CD between charges, making it effectively (10 + 3.25 + 1 =) 14.25s per two charges. With reduces mantra CD 12.25s. With tiple mantras 15.25s for three charges.
I admit I don’t get all of what you wrote down here; but to me, your calculations come to the conclusion that the staff does massively more DPS than the GS… though since you said you’ll stick to the GS, I think I really just didn’t get it.
Default critchance in full rabid gear is 47-48%. Your default critical hit strength would be 150% of a normal hit.
the damage from the mesmer is 500 vs 300, indeed. This even ignores the (double) bouncing from the staff. But I still prefer GS because:
- the 1 Vul just sucks (seriously ANet, make it at least 3 stacks)
- the staff has dodgeable/ reflectable projectiles
- burning doesn’t stack
- GS has “better” #2 ~ #4 skills
But I do own an exotic staff. I replace it with my GS once in a while when I need the Staff#2 skill (some bosses). After the calculation I understand staff users more, but I still think that the staff is a more supportive/ defensive oriented weapon, while it can still deal quite the burn damage.
My mesmer has 71% crit with the old ascended items. When I reach 75%, I switch to dwayna runes, but <50% is just too low for direct damage or bleed stacks.
A crit with 0% critical damage deals 150% of the original damage. With 30% crit damage (from berserker gear or duelist line) it deals 180% of the original damage.
Then let’s calc the DPS with GS#1 and Staff#1. As base, I use the values from wiki (cast, ddamage, cdamage and cduration). But since there’s no default critical chance or critical damage I just assume 60% chance and 30% damage. Default range is 600~900 for the GS user. I also assume the clones to attack 4x slower than you yourself (I tested it for scepter).
Mesmer Staff:
avgVul := vulDuration * vulChance / sCast
= 5s * 33.3% / 0.75s
avgVul = 2.22
// Note: Here I negleted the vulnerability caused by clones.
// 1clone equals ~0.56 vulnerability stacks making an average of 3.89 with mesmer + 3 clones.
MsdDPS := sDmg / sCast * ( crChance * (1.5 + crDmg) + (1-crChance) ) * (1 + avgVul/100)
= 111 / 0.75 * (60% * (1.5 + 30%) + 40%) * (1.022)
= 148 * 1.48 * 1.022
MsdDPS = 223.9
MscDPS := (vulDmg * vulChance + bldDmg * bldChance + burDmg * burChance) / sCast
= (0 * 33.3% + 298 * 33.3% + 328 * 33.3%) / 0.75
= 208.7 / 0.75
MscDPS = 278.2
// As you can see, Staff deals more damage by consitions than by direct damage
// Let’s ignore the clones direct damage for both weapons. Note: it’s about 2% damage and 4x slower … so 0.5% of your DPS
CscDPS := (vulDmg * vulChance + bldDmg * bldChance + burDmg * burChance + bldDmg * crChance) / sCast /4
= (0 * 33.3% + 298 * 33.3% + 328 * 33.3% + 298 * 60%) / 0.75 / 4
= 387.47 / 0.75 / 4
CscDPS = 129.16
So a staff mesmer (with those stats) and 2 clones would deal
223.9 + 278.2 + 2×129.16 =
760.42 DPS
// Note: Ignores vulnerabilty stacks from clones.
Mesmer GS:
avgVul := 0
// Note: no vulnerability for GS
MgdDPS := gDmg / gCast * ( crChance * (1.5 + crDmg) + (1-crChance) ) * (1 + avgVul/100)
= 300 / 1.5 * (60% * (1.5 + 30%) + 40%) * 1
= 200 * 1.48
MgdDPS = 296
MgcDPS := 0
// Note: no condition damage from mesmer with GS
// As you can see, Staff deals more damage by consitions than by direct damage
// Let’s ignore the clones direct damage for both weapons. Note: it’s about 2% damage and 4x slower … so 0.5% of your DPS
CgcDPS := (bldDmg * crChance) / gCast * hitCount /4
= (298 * 60%) / 1.5 * 3 / 4
= 178.8 / 2
CscDPS = 89.4
As expected, the GS deals more direct damage and less condition damage (0). But as you can see here even the clones do more damage with the staff (129.16 <> 89.4).
But as important sidenote, I negleted those things:
- Vulnerability stacks from clones
- Vulnerabilty bonus from and to your party
- Direct damage from clones
- That burning doesn’t stack (the calculation assumes it stacks)
- Other skills than #1 from both weapons
So far … I’ll most likely keep sticking with the GS
Nretep
Alot people are dissing mantra builds and iDisenchanter. Doesn’t keep me from using them.
All mesmer weapons are equal (possibly except torch). Everything depends on personal preference and playstyle.
with [Sharper Images] the only thing that counts is the hit frequency. And the staff is our slowest weapon. The GS has highest ranged hitcount since it has triple hits.
For burst bleeding stacks (not really burst damage) iWarden or iDuelist are the best.
[ Edit ]
I forgot to mention, that staff clones don’t get the additional bounce trait. If they someday would, it’d need a recalculation of hit frequency.I thought sharper images only effected illusions, your making it seem like sharper images effects mesmer weapon skills when you describe the hit frequency in our weapon auto attacks. Perhaps your refering to bleed on crit sigil?
Also, ddoes sharper images effective illusions AND phantasms?
Phantasms are illusions.
Clones only attack with autoattack (MHWeap #1-1). The faster your autoattack, the faster are the clones. The faster the clones the more often they trigger bleeding.
for bleed stucking u must use iDuelist or iWarden. when i was young i use rampager full set (100% crit chance), iDuelist + i sylvari and use elite racial skill. so i stuck with it 25 bleed
You’re right, I really forgot the plants, since I barely use them anymore. The Sylvari Ulti (the six seed turrets) also triggers sharper images, but they don’t get your condition damage. You easily reach 20+ bleeding stack with those.
You have to separate “Bleeding Build”s with “Condition Build”s for Mesmers. Condition builds are based on staff with condition duration (Domination) and condition damage (Illusions). Bleeding Builds are based on (Great-)Sword with critical chance (Dueling 15+) and condition damage (Illusion).
If you really want a bleeding build, grab the GSword (or just Sword MH), get at least 15 points in dueling and full rampager build. You’ll see the bleeding stacks at once.
So why do you suggest greatsword or main hand sword, they dont seem to be condition related?
with [Sharper Images] the only thing that counts is the hit frequency. And the staff is our slowest weapon. The GS has highest ranged hitcount since it has triple hits.
For burst bleeding stacks (not really burst damage) iWarden or iDuelist are the best.
[ Edit ]
I forgot to mention, that staff clones don’t get the additional bounce trait. If they someday would, it’d need a recalculation of hit frequency.
(edited by Nretep.2564)
You have to separate “Bleeding Build”s with “Condition Build”s for Mesmers. Condition builds are based on staff with condition duration (Domination) and condition damage (Illusions). Bleeding Builds are based on (Great-)Sword with critical chance (Dueling 15+) and condition damage (Illusion).
If you really want a bleeding build, grab the GSword (or just Sword MH), get at least 15 points in dueling and full rampager build. You’ll see the bleeding stacks at once.
Well, I’d not say that it became useless. I assume it’s like our illusions when the target stealths. They don’t vanish, but wait (on their current spot) for target to reappear. It’s not like you’d forget about your target when it’s become invisible.
I rather see a problem with clearing aggro from mobs to let your allies respawn. Since the 28th Jan patch we can’t respawn when the party has aggro and now even [Mass Invisibility] wouldn’t help there since the mobs would just wait for you. And our invisibility durations are just to short to do anything else.
Always keep in mind that conditions based on %maxHP (i.e. Agony) will worsen with higher maxHP. The difference isn’t that high since the initial hit usually compensates that, but in the boss fractal you get Agony without an attack so having less HP here, would be better.
But sure, it’s always personal preferance to go either defensive or offensive build. Personally, I’m going for 33% direct dmg, 33% condition damage and 33% healing with my mesmer and stay ranged.
And the combination with [Mender’s Purity] (condition removal on heal) would be reduced alot. (When mantras’ charges will be reduces to 1)
If I know I don’t do anythign but direct damage (GS #1 & #4), I activate this trait with 3 mantras readied. But usually I use [Mantra Mastery] as third selectable traits. 8s Heal CD rocks.
Not sure if someone already brought this bug up or not. But when you are knocked down and use the staff skill “phase retreat” your character does the retreat and then freezes in place and does not react or move for a few secs which is really annoying because I’ve gotten killed a few times in AC and other places because of this bug.
is it a stunbreaker ?
It’s a leap finisher, and I think they are like stun breaker, but it also moves you to another point
also illusionary leap, when you can make the swap, it’s a leap finisher and it also breaks stun, but it doesn’t say it in the tool tip. Think this might be the case for phase retreat as well
it was a rhetorical question.
There are instant skills (no casting time) and there are stun breakers. Stunbreakers are always instant skills, so you can use them … while being stunned. But the fewest instant skills are stun breaker.
The skill [Swap] (Sword #3 – chain 2) is an instant skill and breaks stun, yes. As you can see in wiki, someone said that it breaks stun even if it’s not flagged as stun breaker. So this skill is rather the bugged one, not all leap finisher.
That [Phase Retreat] (Staff #2) works while stunned is nice, but it’s not a stun breaker. Like chaos armor, mantras, feedback, portal and so on.
I just tested it again and mesmers’ scepter’s autoattack has a 3.3~4s cycle, not 2s. The clones only use the first skill of the chain and have a recharge of 2s (including animation time). Mesmers attack-chain has 2s cast and a variable animation delay. Depending on the distance to your target the time increases. Standing in melee range sets the cycle time to ~3.3s. But since you usually keep your distance at ~800, I’d use 4s recharge.
This reduces mesmers autoattack damage (mDPS2) to 373 [dps] (instead of 746) (halves). And this would reduce the total DPS of the scepter version to 531 [dps] (instead of 904).
Not sure if someone already brought this bug up or not. But when you are knocked down and use the staff skill “phase retreat” your character does the retreat and then freezes in place and does not react or move for a few secs which is really annoying because I’ve gotten killed a few times in AC and other places because of this bug.
is it a stunbreaker ?
Is Ether Clone still not applying confusion? -.-
not since the release version. As intended I suppose.
He once said “scepter clones use the original ether bolt”, so I guessed he got it wrong.
The “not doing anything with three iDuelists out” is just bad. You’d either use your sword a bit to deal additional damage (esp Sword #2) or at least calculate your MoP damage. Sure, you need 2.5s cast + 2×1s cool-down, but it’d still add 2x damage over 4.5s. Negleting this, woud equal negleting the clones bleeding.
But the same thing is with “using ato-attack with scepter”. Clones often cause conditions on death (random and/or confusion). You’d also use Scepter#3 and possibly pre-charged MoP. Re-summoning clones also changes their autoattack-recharge time.
The whole assuption of the initial post has so many holes, that it rather looks like the clone itsself deals the 1050 dmg per 2s.
So let’s redo the calculations a bit:
[spoiler]Let’s skip the summoning process and the two iDuelist of both ways. So it’s basically a comparison of “idling around with one iDuelist” versus “using scepters autoattack and having an everlasting clone”. So I’m ignoring the replacement of clones with its reset of attacking recharge and “clone being killed” triggers.
I also use your damage numbers here. (but my recharge ones) Haven’t tested the scepter’s autoattack and – honestly – I think 2s per cycle seems pretty fast.
Case1: iDuelist
iDPS1 = phanDmg * hitCount / rechargeTime * (%normal + critChance * (150 + critDmg))
= 200 * 8 / 7.6 * (20 + 80% * (150% + 20%))
= ~328 [dps]
bDPS1 = bleedDmg * hitBleedCount * hitDmgCount / rechargeTime * critChance
= 102 * 5 * 8 / 7.6 * 80
= ~429 [dps]
mDPS1 = 0 [dps]
tDPS1 = iDPS1 + bDPS1 + mDPS1
= 328 + 429 + 0
= 757 [dps]
Case2: cScepter
iDPS2 = clonDmg / rechargeTime * (%normal + critChance * (150 + critDmg))
= 7 / 2 * (40 + 60% * (150% + 20%)) ; (not 80% because clones don’t get phantasmal fury)
= ~5 [dps]
bDPS2 = bleedDmg * hitBleedCount / rechargeTime * critChance
= 102 * 5 / 2 * 60 ;(here again, not 80%)
= ~153 [dps]
mDPS2 = mesmDmg / rechargeTime * (%normal + critChance * (150 + critDmg))
= 1050 / 2 * (40 + 60% * (150% + 20%)) ; (not 80% because you don’t get phantasmal fury)
= 746 [dps]
cDPS = cDDPS + cBDPS
= 5 + 153 + 764
= 922 [dps][/spoiler]
So, assuming you just stand around while having three iDuelists, it’s 757 dps (+ two iDuelists) and 922 dps (+ two iDuelists) when you attack with scepter’s autoattack only.
He said he’s currently using sword/pistol. He calced the scepter clone as full damage dealer. Otherwise he’d have to include his sword’s autoattack or at least MoP damage.
@Nretep:
You only do 325 DPS with scepter auto in rampager gear? That seems a bit low. I more than double that in knights/soldiers.@Seetoo:
You also have to take out the time required to cast CI from your scepter auto calcs, because you will want to use that. A 3s channel every 15s or so is a 20% downtime in auto attacking. The 3 duelist scenario does not suffer from this downtime.Scepter 2 can also do a nice chuck if timed right. That only takes a split second, but can interrupt your chain (Ether Clone does more damage than Bolt and Blast).
in both cases you were talking about the mesmer himself dealing damage. As I’ve understood Seetoo only wanted to compare the illusions, ignoring the Mesmer himself.
My first chain hit deals avg 325 on environmental targets in Lions Arch. Never said it’s my DPS with scepter’s autoattack.
I’ve wanted to try the scepter, but never did because the auto attack produced a clone. That meant I would lose 1 iduelist. The question came up “Is scepter clone worth an iduelist”.
170% crit damage
200 × 8 iduelist damage over 6.5s 80% crit
sharper images
~ 1stack bleed over 5sec over a long period of time = 5stacks of bleed over 1sec
102 bleed damage per stackiduelist
~ ((200 × 0.2) + (200 × 1.7) x 0.8) x 8 / 6.5
~ 384 dps
with sharper images
~ (102 × 5)bleed damage x 0.8chance x (8 attacks / 6.5 sec)
~ 502 dps
Total ~ 886 dps300 300 450 scepter damage over 2 sec
scepter
~ ((1050 × 0.2) + (1050 × 1.7 × 0.8)) / 2
~ 819 dps
with clone and sharper images
~ (102 × 5) bleed damage x 0.8 chance x (1 attack / 0.5 sec) (EDIT 0.5 -> 2)
~ 816 dps (EDIT 204)
Total ~ 1635 dps (EDIT 1023)Is this right? I actually lose 749 (EDIT 137)dps trying to keep up 3 iduelsits instead of 2 iduelist + 1 scepter clone?
To explain (to others) and correct your calculations:
Since you haven’t used actual damage numbers, but tooltip ones, your assumption is just wrong. I’ve done this with my Mesmer yesterday. It’s a hybrid mesmer with lots of rampager equip. The themes would be 33% direct dmg, 33% bleed dmg, 33% mantra/support. I usually don’t use the pistol, so I tested with a gold scpeter and a white pistol on environmental (low def, no crits, no conditions) targets in lions arch.
your statements:
- 80% critical chance (I assume it’s 60% + phantasmal fury); would be 70% + 0% for mine
- 20% critical damage; 38% for me, since I have 30 dueling
- 102 bleeding tick
iDuellist:
- ~210 dmg per hit
- 8 hits per burst
- 7.6s per burst (no phantasmal haste); stopped time yesterday
cScepter:
- 7 dmg per hit (~2% of my 325 dmg)
- 2s per hit
now let’s redo your calculations (ignoring the 16s- cooldown for iDuelists):
iDuelist
[pre]iDDPS = baseDmg * hitCount / rechargeTime * (%normal + %critChance * (150% + %critDmg))
= 210 * 8 / 7.6 * (20% + 80% * (150% + 20%))
= ~345 (dps)
iBDPS = bleedDmg * hitBleedCount * hitDmgCount / rechargeTime * critChance
= 102 * 5 * 8 / 7.6 * 80
= ~429 (dps)
iDPS = iDDPS + iBDPS
= 345 + 429
= 774 (dps) ;(not 886)[/pre]
cScepter
[pre]cDDPS = baseDmg / rechargeTime * (%normal + %critChance * (150% + %critDmg))
= 7 / 2 * (40% + 60% * (150% + 20%)) ; (not 80% because clones don’t get phantasmal fury)
= ~5 (dps) ;(not 819; wonder oh wonder)
cBDPS = bleedDmg * hitBleedCount / rechargeTime * critChance
= 102 * 5 / 2 * 60 ;(here again, not 80%)
= ~153 (dps) ;(not 204)
cDPS = cDDPS + cBDPS
= 5 + 153
= 158 (dps)[/pre]
I wonder if anyone said cScepter deals more dps than iDuelist.
As mentioned before, clones are not for damage (GS and Sword can deal decent bleeding). While you can summon them much faster than your 3 iDuelists (3x 16s = 48s w/o pistol trait), they’re meant to be special skills, not damage ones.
Then you’d have to take into account that you can attack yourself (325 dmg) if you don’t have 3 phantasms, your clones distract and may cause conditions on replacement, but your iDuelists could have retaliation, regeneration and projectile combos.
[ Edit ]
This forum’s formatting is awful. Some [percent] may be missing.
(edited by Nretep.2564)
Inspiration
- IV Mender’s Purity
Remove a condition when you heal.
If you’re a Mantra user, you’re almost immune to conditions.
^
It was unlimited (#, not range) previously.
The patch notes once said “limited to 5 ppl now”.
Another patch note then said “priorize players over NPCs and pets”.
[ Ethereal Combo Field ]
One issue I have seen, though I could be misunderstanding the problem, is Ethereal fields not appropriately applying Confusion via Physical Projectiles, even though I see the activation hearts above people’s heads. I’ll drop a field, and see tons of Confusion hearts, but 1 or 2 to no Confusion applied to the enemy, even from my own attacks.
Most (?) projectile finishers don’t have 100% success but 20%. You see the combo icon each roll even if it failed. I wonder if it intentionally this way, but I’d like to see different icons (failed <> successful) or only on success as well.
Temporal Curtain hasn’t applied swiftness if you have the boon already in a long time, which is a pretty big deal. No idea why ANet still hasn’t sorted this out.
I’ve heard, that it was different in beta. Mesmers abused it by running through it multiple times and get +10s swiftness each time. ANet fixed it so you can only get swiftness from it, if you don’t have.
But well, they could’ve fixed it by now in a proper way …
I’d say it’s smaller than 600. 450~600 imo. But that’s enough.
But the 5 target limit has especially been implemented/ patched later on. As I remember they further patched it to priorize players over pets and npcs.
Clones always dealt ~2% of your damage. So if you deal <50, 2% is lower than 1 and floored to 0.
Criticals deals 1.25x (+) damage and might reach the 1 damage sooner than non-crits.
To sum it up: They’ll deal single digits later on, but were never meant to be your damage dealers.
The most important part is “debuff will vanish, if the user kills something within its duration”.
But yeah, other classes have similar effects but WAY less situational.
To maximize SharperImages:
- GS
- Rampager Gear
- Clone on dodge (includes SI)
- CondiDmg Signet
- CondiDmg trait line
- Precision trait line
Actually I’d prefer the beta delay on phantasms (0.5s) or even an higher one. As long as they work as originally intended, not 3x evade-able.
- They’ll be summoned as long as range and LoS is given. (failed summon gives 50% CD)
- All phantasms have a delay before their initial attack. Their damage should be comparable to other professions’ skills. While other skills have no delay, Phantasms stay out and attack again after their attack delay or can be shattered.
- Melee Phantasms (or all) are invulnerable until their first attack is fired or shattered.
- Fix iWardens follow range to its AoE, not 900.
Optional:
- Make phantasms initial regeneration’s AoE ~900.
I think those things are like the original idea of phantasms before they have been cross-patch-balanced.
That’s because the GS doesn’t use projectiles. You can attack with any weapon any time. The laser will not shoot out since it does not have a destination.
Projectiles do come out. Their reliable range is as said in the tooltip, but they continue to travel (usually towards the ground). So for high projectiles you have a high chance to increase your total range (esp Rangers). But the autoattack only works in the reliable range.
iDisenchanter was nice before. It reliably removed boons and conditions. But it has been hit by the nerf-/ bug-hammer. Twice. Now the range summon is bugged and it doesn’t remove conditions/ boons in a bulk anymore.
Personally, I run a half mantra build but almost never use Removal Mantra. 10 points in Inspiration granting me 2 condition removals with my Healing mantra. I almost never need any other condition removal and it’s unprobable, that you’ll be inflicted conditions without damage anyways. Most players here seem to dislike with the healing mantra. So from me, it’s a “then deal with it”.
It spawns confusion causing clones ?
Because confusion works when a player in downing animation?
Because a giant freaken red arrow above your head indicating who the real mesmer is works right?
I was talking about the condition (status ailment) [Confusion]. Each of your or your clone attack causes 1 stack of confusion.
It spawns confusion causing clones ?
Can you also add timewarp to the list?
Alot of times when using the skill the people in the area of effect do not get the buff from it.
Walking to the middle of it seems to fix it sometimes however this is not the way this skill is suppose to work.
TimeWarp also has an ally counter. If there are too many, a few of them will not get quickness. It’s rather a bug, that you get it by reentering.
Is it just me or the Illusionary Whaler(Trident) damage is way too low?
iWhaler causes bleeding each hit, rather than direct damage.
As RinKyu said, you have a bad choice of words. I rarely find reflecting curtain useful. It has a low reflecting altitude and only works on ground projectiles (exaggerated). The iWarden itsself already negates projectiles by himself. No need to put traits for him. His damage is fine, but situational.
I heard Restorative Mantras are now limited to 5 targets, so probably less viable in WvW (whereas Guardians have fields) but still great for anything else.
Don’t forget Null Field and Inspiration Signet. =)
it’s funny how they limit anything supportive from Mesmers to 5 targets (with 3 clones means you + 1 ally) but other classes get lasting aoe skills with unlimited amount.
Mesmers are not meant to play in a group and are not meant to play against groups ? Forever Alone Mesmer ?
@OP
as said, MoP + Restorative Mantras (+ Healing Mantra for yourself) is basically the best healing support a mesmer can have. Unfortunately there’s no way to boost casting speed (except quickness). And unfortunately you can’t attack or even dodge while casting mantras. You can only attack once between the 2 charges.
- Running 4 mantra build? Used all of them in combat? Now you have to wait for the cooldowns and then start recharging them. Effectively wasting 20-30 seconds of time. This combined with the first point is just horrible
You don’t have to use a single charge of all four mantras on a single enemy. Condition remover ? StunBreaker ?
I don’t see many problems with them. It’d be nice to have an additional way (or a background CD for mantra casts), but I think it’s impossible to realize with the current game’s mechanics.
- Mantra of concentration stability duration is too short. On 2 usages it’s 4 seconds then Mantra goes on CD then you have to re-charge it. Very short stability.
For me the main point of this mantra is the stun breaker (one of the mesmer’s stunbreakers that actually works). The 2s stability is just for you to move away from your KDed position, not to keep standing there.
You need to be closer for it to spawn.
It only removed 2 boons/ conditions on attack.
Basically, they made the super-situational skill into a completely useless one.
I also tend to mix “support” into my builds, and I found an interesting way to add it to my mesmer.
- To your “reflect” tactic: iWarden reflects itself, the trait is useless here. The curtain has a limited altitude and like 50% of the projectiles just fly over it – even with the trait.
- To the “regeneration on phantasms”: It’s a nice trait but far from good, rather a “nice to have”. It’s very situational (except for the iDuelist) and mainly works on immobile targets with long range Phantasms. So for non-staff users like me, it’s only the super-situational iDisenchanter and the trident one. Sad, but true.
- Support Mesmer:
Mesmer can provide several types of support: Heal, Combos and Aggro taker. Conditional removal and reflect is too situational (high CD or unreliable phantasms).
For combos, just use staff/ focus, feedback, nullfield, veil and time warp.
For heal the most effective is Inspiration X (heal allies on mantra cast) + mantra of pain. this automatically grants your phantasms regeneration. Comboed with Inspiration IV (remove contion on heal) + mantra of recovery you make yourself almost immune to conditions.
For aggro taking you need toughness, power and Dueling X (clone on dodge). Even if the aggro system is awkward, having always 3 illusions can provide meatshields for your party, especially with scepter #1 on high-hp targets.
Personally I have 30 Dueling (Dueling X and Dueling 15 and Dueling XI for mantras), 5 Chaos (nc), 20 Inspiration, 15 Illustion (for condidmg and confusion) with GS/ sc+fo. I consider it a bleed/support build.
The staff is more a defensive/ supportive weapon in my eyes. The #2 skill is used to retreat from almost any pull or aoe attack, yet most ppl abuse it to spawn clones. The #5 skill can be used offensively and supportively. #3 phantasms damage is based on you and your teammates conditions. #4 is a defensive armor. For me it’s not meant to deal damage. For power builds, use the GS.
For condition builds, you need to trait the staff CD and the additional bounce. This already consumes 40 (or 70) trait points. If you want “clone on dodge”, 60 traits are reserved. And the more you rely on conditions, the worse you’ll be on environmental targets.
Personally, I own an exotic staff, but only equip it on heavy pulling targets to instantly retreat – even knocked or while casting mantras.
Well, most ideas contradict with the “2 charges rule” of mantras. Like “recover 1 charge of all other mantras” would be overpowered since you could use it twice.
Personally, I’d like to have the ability to “mantrafy” “all” of the othe rutility spells. Doesn’t matter if it’s an utility or elite. Basically select the mantrafy followed by the utility spell. The new mantra has the ability of the selected utility spell, but with 2 charges and a initial mantra cast. The mantra CD equals to ~1.5x the utilities’ CD and the charge CD <=0.5×. This would create alot mantra builds probably without overpowering them.
The tool tip is wrong. It reduces the recharge on the phantasms attack, not the recharge of the skill that summons them.
the tool tip is correct. The wording can mean both, and most players tend to read the different meaning. And adding grammar signs doesn’t help the american nation. Thy tan 2 reed th1s.
Tooltip:
Phantasms recharge 20% faster.
Illusionists Celerity’s tooltip:
Illusion-summoning skills recharge 20% faster.
I mean, you don’t misunderstand
Persisting Images tooltip:
Phantasms have 20% more health.
Like it increases the mesmers spell health.
No sigil triggers on clone attacks.
@OP
I always used a similar combination. But there may be some crucial things I’m traited differently.
- Inspiration V → Inspiration IV. I don’t use +HP to illusion since they’re squishy anyways. And if you have “remove condition on heal” with healing mantra, you’ll become very spoiled (I felt it when I started a second character). You’ll see that you rarely need the condition removal mantra and can change it to stability, daze or another skill. Unfortunately this doesn’t work with mantra-aoe-heal-trait.
- Dueling 10. This is a questionable trait. I tested alot Adept traits, but increased def while casting mantra wasn’t worth for me. I’m always at range and barely get hit, even while casting. You can see the stat increasement in the hero menu, just calc yourself, if it’s worth it. Currently, I’m using Dueling I for full-range Blink.
- Illusions 5. One of the most important traits for mesmers.
- Dueling 15 & X & XI. My build is 33% bleeding, 33% damage, 33% support. Dueling 15 is needed for lots of bleeding damage. Dueling X is needed for fast clone spawning and often works wonders with mob-aggro. Especially with Dueling 5 you can dodge as you like (made me also spoiled). Dueling XI is my personal thing. I got Dueling 30 and had the option between +4% dmg for each readied mantra (so I have to choose between MoP heal or passive damage) or -20% mantra recharge rate. Both are excellent and fit into my bleed/ mantra build.
And clones also deal damage, when you deal more damage. Just at low level it’s floored to 0.
And as easter bug (however it’s considered officially) even the plants of sylvari skills cause bleedings, but don’t have your condiDmg.
I tested it yesterday again with steady pvp GS and it worked. Just as I described before – never managed to get 3 Bleeding stacks with this sowrd alone.
You might be able to get more than 2 with condiDuration/ bleedDuration or a different atkspd. GS attacks in burst hits and 2 (x3) consecutive hits never caused 2 bleedings.
^
are you testing it on environmental targets (yellow ones)? those are immune to crits and conditions.
The rest should work.
As I said, I haven’t used it in a while, but I don’t ever recall causing more than 2 bleed stacks at a time. With a GS you attack thrice on a second. With 72% crit, it’d make 15 attacks per 5s including 10 crits.
Therefore I understand adding a small cooldown, but they could’ve listed it in the description.
Trait “Phantasmal Healing” prevents a fury buff from “Phantasmal Fury” to refresh itself on any phantasms but phantasmal duelist. Same effect has a Phantasmal Heling onto Vengeful Images trait. only iDuelist works fine.
Also trait “phantasmal fury” overrides a buff from trait " Vengeful Images"
did you read the initial post ?
There seems to be a bug with time warp.
Often when standing in the area of effect you dont seem to get the buff or lose it while standing in it.
Moving inside the area sometimes seems to renew the effect.Just another utility skill added to the list that is bugged of a utility class.
1. Time warp is not a utility spell.
2. Time Warp only grants quickness to 5 allies. And you’re not priorized. Remember that your clones are “allies”, too
There is a bug with illusions of life aswell.
Used it several times today in dungeons on downed players, however nothing happened.
Illusion of life is a pretty bad skill. Unlike the ingenious version of the engineer, it has a super high CD and only works on downed, not defeated allies.
But for your problem, are you sure you set the “field” after the player was downed and the player was in its aoe ? Unlike the engineer version, it has no duration (…) and only works on impact.
any1 noticed condition damage stops when you illusion is dead/shattered? THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXES PRONTO.
There’s a rumor, that the damage isn’t shown anymore, but it’s still present. Like a hidden condition. I haven’t tested it myself excessively, but I had this feeling, too.
I had this, too. But I learned, that it has a hidden CD of 2~3s. This means even a triple crit of the GS (I have >70% crit) can only trigger a single bleeding. So the max upkeep is 2 bleeding stacks with this sigil (alone). And this wasn’t worth it for me.
I’d also like to see a 2 attack combo instead of 3. Inflicting a short duration, non stackable status (weakness, poison, burn) with the first attack and spawn a clone (with at least the current casttime of the third hit) with the second.
This might turn the scepter into a used weapon again.
Something I’ve noticed recently is that the phantasmal disenchanter always appears in melee, or just outside of melee range, and it’s often immediately destroyed, usually before it even renders. I only mention this because when they do manage to survive long enough to attack, the range is closer to 900-1200. Is there a reason they’re appearing so close to the target? To the best of my knowledge, no other ranged phantasms appear on top of the target like this.
iDisenchanter is a ranged Phantasm. When I am ranged and spawn it, it’s also ranged. 600~900 afair.
But I haven’t used it for a while, they might’ve changed this.
Depends on your term “survivability”. MeveM explained a toughness build. The other option is a Healing (Mantra) build.
I use a 0/30/5/20/15 build. It’s a Bleed/Heal build. Primarily focussed on Sharper Images + Prec + GS and secondarily on Healing Mantra + Condition removal + AoE Heal. My equip is 50% Rampager, 30% Carrison and 20% others. Precision Accessories with Prec/Tough jewels.
But I believe alot of this build is focussed on Healing Mantra and alot ppl can’t stand Mantras.