Guild Wars 2

Zaxares.5419:

The undeniable fact is that the Watchwork Pick is better than any other pick available to players.

It’s not. It’s more expensive than the other picks. For some people, that makes it worse, especially considering the crap value of the items you get from the bonus sprocket drop.

J Eberle.9312:

He doesn’t know what he wants.

He knows he want’s something comparable to a build that gives the same durability and decent damage an AH build gives. Meta doesn’t deliver that without the skilled player behind the keyboard playing it.

CMF.5461:

Additionally I recognize that not all players are capable or like to run the meta, so I understand when people look for alternatives, and don’t question them. Instead I try to help with as little bias as possible.

^^ This.

J Eberle.9312:

And no Obtena, I recommended a build and it just happened to meta, probably because it’s a good build.

It ‘s certainly a good build but the OP didn’t ask for that. He asked if AH was viable and for a comparable build. Answering with the meta doesn’t address either of those things because meta isn’t comparable to an AH build for the particular features he was looking for.

Meta is good but, it’s not the ‘do everything for everyone’ build people want to envision it to. Maybe if the meta club people spent more time fostering and paying attention to how people want to play the game, then those players would get better faster on their own terms.

J Eberle.9312:

We have already discussed why the OP may have mentioned AH, …..

And that’s the problem with how you have responded to him … you didn’t take his questions at face value. You just picked up the fact he wasn’t talking about meta, made some assumption that lead you to believe it was a great opportunity to sell it (like you do for everyone that asks for build advice), then got uppity when I challenged the idea there is life outside of playing meta. Let me quote myself to offer some advice when thinking of how to respond to people’s requests:

“Maybe people should stop assuming that every request for advice is a plea to ‘stop being bad players’.”

J Eberle.9312:

You are making the assumption that the meta builds require a certain individual to be able to play them. They don’t.

I most certainly KNOW they do (I know plenty of people that can’t play meta) so it’s no assumption …. but that’s not even the most compelling argument here.

For me, the argument isn’t only about capability to play the meta, it’s about the reality that not everyone WANTS to play the meta. Based on these two things, I think it’s safe to say that if someone is asking about a non-meta build, they are probably in one or both of those categories. I feel that suggesting someone ignore how they want to play because meta exists is ridiculous.

J Eberle.9312:

Obtena.7952:

J Eberle.9312:

Obtena.7952:

J Eberle.9312:

Actually very relevant. It does nothing for your team, and you yourself don’t need it to stay alive, therefore it’s not viable.

How do you know the OP doesn’t need it to stay alive? Do you know him personally? have you seen him play? I’m going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that if he’s asking about AH, it’s not simply to be academic.

How do you know he does need it?

Oh stop it you

Because he asked? I mean, do you ask about AH builds because you don’t need them?

Again…I’m going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that if he’s asking about AH, it’s not simply to be academic.

Jeez, I dunno. Maybe because he’s not up to date with dungeons and has no idea what to run? Maybe because AH was the (evil) meta about a year or so ago when no one had a clue about anything?

There are plenty of reasons that have nothing to do with individual skill level.

I’m going to respect the OP’s intelligence and give him the build that is widely used and accepted as the meta because it is vastly superior to AH builds and is easier to play because it does more.

That’s fair. I’m respecting the Op’s intelligence by not second guessing him. He’s asking if AH is viable, there are situations where it is, there are others where it is not. Viable != Best. He didn’t ask for best build, he asked for comparable to AH durability with not useless DPS. As much as you love the meta, it’s not this.

It might shock you to find this out but despite the existence of a meta, people actually consciously don’t run it for plenty of reasons not related to skill level as well. You should have found this out simply playing the game at this point. Whether a build is easier or not is based on the individual.

J Eberle.9312:

Obtena.7952:

J Eberle.9312:

Actually very relevant. It does nothing for your team, and you yourself don’t need it to stay alive, therefore it’s not viable.

How do you know the OP doesn’t need it to stay alive? Do you know him personally? have you seen him play? I’m going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that if he’s asking about AH, it’s not simply to be academic.

How do you know he does need it?

Oh stop it you

Because he asked? I mean, do you ask about AH builds because you don’t need them?

Again…I’m going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that if he’s asking about AH, it’s not simply to be academic.

J Eberle.9312:

Actually very relevant. It does nothing for your team, and you yourself don’t need it to stay alive, therefore it’s not viable.

How do you know the OP doesn’t need it to stay alive? Do you know him personally? Have you seen him play? I’m going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that if he’s asking about AH, it’s not simply to be academic.

Again, it always comes back to just making assumptions based on what you know is possible to do in the game. That’s just not where every player is or cares to be. If the OP wants to run AH or a durability-equivalent build, you have nothing to add if your advice is “Don’t do it”. That’s simply an admission that he shouldn’t play the game unless he’s doing meta.

Not relevant. The OP is asking about AH viability, not effectiveness of symbols. AH is more effective when team stacking with hammer.

You apply more protection boon with the hammer symbol when more people are stacked in it. As well with shouts, etc..

… and I will just iterate again with:

AH works if your team knows how to stack, otherwise it’s meh. If your team knows how to stack, then you are best off using hammer with AH. It’s pretty situational because if you are in PUG, it’s likely the won’t stack and run around trying to not die instead of owning stuff.

The trait point allocation suggested above are advanced. You need to know the dungeon, the mobs in it and be capable of dodging with the correct timing. If you can do that, then play them. You’re team will thank you for it. If you can’t, you’re only doing yourself and your team a disservice playing them. If you suck at them, consider something that will give you a bit more passive defenses like 15/15/0/20/20.

… nothing has changed with content to make AH not suitable anymore. In fact, with higher stat gear, the answer that “ANYTHING” you want to run is even more viable than before.

I’m not pushing AH because you don’t like it or because I have an agenda … I’m advising on it because the OP asked! Unlike others, I’m NOT ignoring the OP’s request, despite my own bias.

He got advice. It’s just that some of that advice seemed to ignore what he was looking for. He didn’t ask to not be bad, he asked for a build that give AH-equivalent durability and not useless DPS. Some people took this as an invitation to push the DPS meta. That’s not being honest.

Problem I have with this is that it seems to be systematic with every build-advice thread. Regardless of what conditions people put on their request, they always seem to get the scripted DPS meta mantra. Maybe people should stop assuming that every request for advice is a plea to ‘stop being bad players’. That’s OK though, I don’t mind balancing this out for y’all.

AH build is viable and it’s only comparable equivalent is meditation heals. I get it … you guys have a hate thing for people that don’t run meta. At least you should be more honest about it. Then the OP will really know who to regard as useful info or .. political banter.

It’s fun when people tell other players what they need, what to wear, what stats and traits to use, etc… without knowing how they do or want to play.

Dear OP … do what you feel is how YOU want to play. Until someone pays your costs to play the game and reimburses you for your time, those are your decisions to make, your prerogative to take. Nothing compares to AH (other than Med heal builds) for a build balanced on your own survival and DPS unless you are capable of survival without relying on it.

sorudo.9054:

Obtena.7952:

Yes, swimming in Gold from selling sprockets at 40c per at a 30% chance to drop while you have ignored your initial capital investment. Can’t wait … literally, since it will take you half a year just to break even.

so, are you in any rush?
i am not, why rush when i can just enjoy the game without worrying about my pick breaking all the time.

I don’t get the relevance, much like your other points. Nothing I said changes:

Sprocket Pick is a bad investment if it’s to make gold and if you need spockets for gear, it’s more effective and economical to just buy them.

J Eberle.9312:

Obtena.7952:

swiftpaw.6397:

Well actually..

Tolmos.8395:

So do you guys know of any still viable altruistic healing builds for solo/dungeon PvE, or if not, do you know something comparable that you might suggest? Thanks!

Yep, he’s being helpful. <3

A full DPS build that depends on a players background for survival is comparable to a AH build? OK. I don’t think that’s the definition of comparable the OP is referring to. Sure you can compare them, but they don’t achieve the same thing. I guess the OP can decide.

It’s not a full dps build. This has been explained to you, whether you choose to ignore it or not is up to you.

I’m sure the OP has the ability to understand that 25 points in virtues is not ‘full dps’

That’s just semantics … comparing what you presented to AH builds is questionable, whatever name put to it. To me, it’s clear the OP is looking at something that gives him survival above and beyond the stuff that’s part of the base toolset, otherwise he wouldn’t be asking about AH.

Regardless, I’m sure the OP will take what value he wants from the thread. If he’s able to run the builds you presented and get the durability he wants from them, great. He should do that. I’m betting if he’s still talking about AH, that won’t happen and he should transition once he gains more experience and background with the content he’s doing.

The reality is that he should run whatever he wants because it doesn’t matter … PVE balance in GW2 isn’t based on BiS gear or optimized builds.

swiftpaw.6397:

Well actually..

Tolmos.8395:

So do you guys know of any still viable altruistic healing builds for solo/dungeon PvE, or if not, do you know something comparable that you might suggest? Thanks!

Yep, he’s being helpful. <3

A full DPS build that depends on a players background for survival is comparable to a AH build? OK. I don’t think that’s the definition of comparable the OP is referring to. Sure you can compare them, but they don’t achieve the same thing. I guess the OP can decide.

J Eberle.9312:

Running AH does nothing for your team. And stacking does not somehow magically change this.

And this isn’t what the OP has asked so are you genuinely being helpful or is this just another soapbox attempt.

The Guardian class concept makes good use of Heal power and toughness and it’s builds benefit (or need, depending on the content you do) from VIT as well. The only failing of Celestial for Guardian is the low power a full set gives you.

Some mix of Zerker/Celestial (most people leaning heavy in the zerker direction) is a good balance if you are looking to supplement a DPS build with defensive stats. I believe the MOST effecient Celestial parts are the chest and legs.

Your traits suggest a heavy defensive stats … if you insist on this, I would go with knights to push more damage. I’m not a fan of either of those builds.

^^ That’s just not answering the OP’s question. AH is the most viable in stacking and gives the a very durable build in that scenario. That’s not debatable. The OP also wants to know comparable builds other than AH. While that’s a vague qualifier, I don’t think his intent was to be fed “DPS or FAIL at PVE” rhetoric with the suggestion to run THE highest DPS and questionably durable Guardian builds.

We’ve been through this before. The builds you gave require the player to be knowledge and skilled enough to be played in a manner to make up for any durability they lack in the stats. If the OP was this kind of player, this thread wouldn’t exist.

Yes, swimming in Gold from selling sprockets at 40c per at a 30% chance to drop while you have ignored your initial capital investment. Can’t wait … literally, since it will take you half a year just to break even.

AH works if your team knows how to stack, otherwise it’s meh. If your team knows how to stack, then you are best off using hammer with AH. It’s pretty situational because if you are in PUG, it’s likely the won’t stack and run around trying to not die instead of owning stuff.

The trait point allocation suggested above are advanced. You need to know the dungeon, the mobs in it and be capable of dodging with the correct timing. If you can do that, then play them. You’re team will thank you for it. If you can’t, you’re only doing yourself and your team a disservice playing them. If you suck at them, consider something that will give you a bit more passive defenses like 15/15/0/20/20.

sorudo.9054:

Obtena.7952:

Again … if you are getting this pick just because you want to sell sprockets, you haven’t done a cost benefit assessment of the pick. To borrow from another thread:

“It will take you over SEVENTY-SIX THOUSAND swings of that pick to recover the value you would have gotten if you just turned the gems into gold, right now, today. Even if the value of the sprockets quadrupled, we are still talking about TENS OF THOUSANDS of swings.”

If you believe this is a good money making opportunity, I wish you luck.

oh wow, but speed runs in dungeons, QD trains and fractures are a benefit to you?……

I don’t get what those things have to do with infinite mining pick so … ?

As for the number of swings … the point again is lost on you … If you NEED sprockets for gear, the pick is not how you should get them. If you NEED sprockets because you want to sell them to make money, you’re probably looking to flip swampland IRL.

^^ You heard this story before because it’s the nature of something being a bug. They can’t make a commitment on WHEN they will be fixed because that means they would know what’s wrong and how to fix them.

Again … if you are getting this pick just because you want to sell sprockets, you haven’t done a cost benefit assessment of the pick. To borrow from another thread:

“It will take you over SEVENTY-SIX THOUSAND swings of that pick to recover the value you would have gotten if you just turned the gems into gold, right now, today. Even if the value of the sprockets quadrupled, we are still talking about TENS OF THOUSANDS of swings.”

If you believe this is a good money making opportunity, I wish you luck.

mercury ranique.2170:

But there is a catch. It was announced IN the second half of 2013.

Fixed … There is no catch, they did not say when it was going to happen.

I’m also waiting for this to be implemented but so are alot of other people. I’m just speculating here but if there are many disappointed people with the scavenger hunt, you might see precursors increase in price.

dAcIaW.5107:

something Anet said:

it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time._"
- Mike O’Brien (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2/)

things have changed i guess eh Mike?

It’s not unfair because everyone has the ability to buy one.

MikeyGrey.2496:

Value of sprockets is completely irrelevant. Its the actual ability that I am after.

That’s not a very genuine statement. Obviously collecting sprockets has some value to you, whether you want to use them or sell them. having the ability to get them ‘just because’ isn’t really a strong position to justify getting a refund on older picks or an upgrade.

Maybe for you that’s true but most people will buy the pick because they want sprockets to use or sell, not just to collect. How you desire to use the farmed materials it doesn’t invalidate the statement that older picks are the last ones people will need because people buy picks because they need ore and the older picks always give ore.

sorudo.9054:

Obtena.7952:

MikeyGrey.2496:

DarcShriek.5829:

No the were not advertised as BiS. They were advertised as infinite and able to mine all ores.

“last pick you will ever need” were the words used or something very close to it (do correct me if i am wrong; my memory isn’t the greatest)
I have a molten pick (8 of em). I need it to get me some sprockets. Is it possible for a mining pick to get you sprockets? Yes. Is my pick capable of doing that? No. Do I need a different mining pick for it to be possible? Yes. Hmm…

It is the last pick you will ever need because the purpose of the pick is to get ore and it does that. If you did the cost benefit analysis, you would realize that 1K gems would buy you thousands of sprockets … if you are buying the pick for sprockets because you NEED them, you haven’t put that much thought into it in terms of time or cost.

and you can get unlimited sprockets with the pick, way more then your 1000……

You didn’t really get the point … if the argument is if you NEED sprockets and that makes the pick OPed, the argument is nonsense because you don’t need unlimited numbers of them months from now. If you NEED them, it’s because you need them now and you only need enough to make a finite amount of gear.

… therefore if you are buying a pick because you need sprockets, you haven’t put that much thought into it in terms of time or cost.

MikeyGrey.2496:

DarcShriek.5829:

No the were not advertised as BiS. They were advertised as infinite and able to mine all ores.

“last pick you will ever need” were the words used or something very close to it (do correct me if i am wrong; my memory isn’t the greatest)
I have a molten pick (8 of em). I need it to get me some sprockets. Is it possible for a mining pick to get you sprockets? Yes. Is my pick capable of doing that? No. Do I need a different mining pick for it to be possible? Yes. Hmm…

It is the last pick you will ever need because the purpose of the pick is to get ore and it does that. If you did the cost benefit analysis, you would realize that 1K gems would buy you thousands of sprockets … if you are buying the pick for sprockets because you NEED them, you haven’t put that much thought into it in terms of time or cost.

That’s an fair opinion. Of course, is that an experiment you want them to do? I for one am not enthusiatic about how that would impact the game if it failed.

Nat.4029:

Alexander.4827:

Guild Wars 2 was not designed with mounts in mind. Any sort of mount with diminish the impact of the world severely.

There is an infographic that is biased but very valid.
http://i.imgur.com/mamTXyB.png

Not every game needs every feature from other games in the genre. That’s why we have other games in the genre.

This is why flying mounts will never be in the game. This doesn’t rule out ground mounts though. I doubt they’ll ever implement them, but it would be awesome if they did.

I think it does if the ‘traditional’ approach to mounts is implemented. In no way would I want to see mounts affect the following:

1. Aggro
2. Character speed
3. Character abilities in combat

In otherwords, mounts should not offer a player any advantages while in the open world, other than a cool look.

… and it will probably cost more than 1000 gems so a pick that has a 30% chance to drop dragonite ore isn’t a problem.

Really the point is … even if it is P2Win, so what? Let’s have an honest conversation here. How long do you think armor skins and Quaggan backpacks are going to fund the game? I don’t give ‘nice looks’ very much marketshare before players are simply bored with those things … more beneficial items NEED to start coming online for players willing to pay for them … as it should be if you all want the game to continue to have no monthly fee.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Obtena.7952:

GW2 is funded by gemstore. If they want funding, they need to intro stuff people want in gemstore. That stuff will always be better, improved and more interesting items than the previous ones because this will be the only thing that ensures consistent sales over time.

Do you think Anet will eventually have to sell finishers that can stomp people faster than normal finishers?

I don’t know. Would that be something that you would find unreasonable, given the fact that:

1) Everyone can buy them with two different kinds of currency
2) You’re not getting the opportunity to stomp anyone if the game doesn’t get funded

Given the equal opportunity to get it and the fact that gemstore stuff keeps the game F2P for alot of people, I would encourage it. Think about it this way … some guy paid $10-$20 to stomp a little faster in PVP.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Obtena.7952:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Obtena.7952:

I wonder how many people complaining about this don’t appreciate the fact that they don’t pay a monthly fee to play this game ….

There’s always someone who brings up this ridiculous argument.

It’s hardly ridiculous … if there was no items that people wanted to buy in the gemstore then the game would 1) have to become some kind of subscription based model or 2) close up shop. What do you think funds this outfit? Goodwill?

The game ONLY works on the premise you only pay once BECAUSE they continue to release things in the gemstore that are desirable to fund it.
Frankly,

Not true at all. It is possible to have a business model where you pay once and get “lifetime” support — and that’s how the game was advertised: Buy-to-Play.

But that’s not relevant to my ‘ridiculous’ argument because that’s not how GW2 works. Think up all the theoretical funding schemes you want; they have nothing to do with the impact that the current scheme has on the game right now.

GW2 is funded by gemstore. If they want funding, they need to intro stuff people want in gemstore. That stuff will always be better, improved and more interesting items than the previous ones because this will be the only thing that ensures consistent sales over time.

To give you some credit, that’s not even the strongest argument for why people shouldn’t QQ about this. An even better one is that people who have the first infinite mining tools are getting their value from them, even as newer, improved ones continue to be released. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have bought them in the first place.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

I’m still waiting for the reason that GW2 needs mounts. So far, I can summarise every argument into “because I want them” or “WoW and other games have them”.

That’s what I was thinking. Not once have I though “It would be nice to have a mount right now” while playing GW2. Just because other MMO’s do it doesn’t mean GW2 should too. If we did get mounts, it would hope it would come with massive restrictions to make them worthless from a gameplay perspective (I can see them as nice bling though, like the town clothes were)

Lord Kuru.3685:

Obtena.7952:

I wonder how many people complaining about this don’t appreciate the fact that they don’t pay a monthly fee to play this game ….

There’s always someone who brings up this ridiculous argument.

It’s hardly ridiculous … if there was no items that people wanted to buy in the gemstore then the game would 1) have to become some kind of subscription based model or 2) close up shop. What do you think funds this outfit? Goodwill? That initial $60 paid for the development of the game and maybe a few months of runtime. The gemstore is what will fund this game for years to come.

Frankly, the biggest problem with the business model is that people that buy Gemstuff with RL money are subsidizing people that don’t. I don’t have a hangup with that because it gives more people to play with but I’m sure it doesn’t make a lick of difference to Anet. Perhaps Anet should track and weight the opinions of those players more highly.

So, no please Anet, continue to make improved and better items available in the gemstore because I like this game and I don’t want to pay a sub to play it.

Forget the symbolism … what about the THEME … flashing hearts? I don’t mind weird stuff but how does this theme even fit into the game? I at least expect that much.

Kaineng.9374:

I have no idea what all these folks are on about, but you can run a 0/0/30/30/10 build with Knight’s gear, and get the job done for all three.

These folks are ‘on about’ the difference between a build that ‘gets the job done’ and a build that is considerate of the content being played.

I wonder how many people complaining about this don’t appreciate the fact that they don’t pay a monthly fee to play this game ….

Svarty.8019:

THis thread needs to be moved to the Balance forum.

Forum Moderator – over to you!

Certainly not this thread … at least not without deleting most of the QQ posts from it.

I don’t tend to be telling people what to do, how to play but there is really no reason other than laziness to not be swapping builds depending on the content you want to do. I can wear NO gear and do everything to … but why? There is a reason we have cheap respecs.

Short answer is no … Each one has different requirements to be successful and one build for all three will be so unfocused that it just won’t work.

kokiman.2364:

Do americans speak a different kind of english?

Many different … just like there are many kind of English spoken in England.

SilverGarmore.2089:

I guess my big question is, then, how big is difference between added healing allowing the player to recover damage more quickly via regeneration versus damage that wouldn’t have been taken by virtue of a higher defense stat? Is it small enough to warrant trying Zealot’s armor instead of Knight’s?

There are some benefits to Zealots that no other armor has.

1. It’s a BEST compromise between full zerkers and …. anything else. OK, well, Assassin perhaps fits in there but the point is … it balances the best DPS making stats with a defensive one in case someone insists on running a defensive stat in their gear.
2. Guardians will get the most benefit from this defensive stat (that’s my opinion); it doesn’t have diminishing return like toughness, it compliments damage reduction stats and effects, I think at this point, all of our healing effects scale with healing power (how much is still a delicate point).
3. With the incoming ‘fix’ to crit damage removal for ferocity, I anticipate something like this armor being a very effective balance of damage and defensive stats; it will certainly give a finer control over tradeoffs over a knight’s/zerker mix for instance (and I think Valk will lose it’s luster).

If I didn’t run dedicated groups as infrequently as I do, I would make a serious consideration of this gear.

Behellagh.1468:

No you didn’t. Account bound, not soul bound, gather tools are 1000 gems. The soul bound ones were 800 gems.

Then someone should start another thread … I upgraded my 800 gem soulbound tools to accountbound ones via an NPC near the LA TP.

I’m still in support of a 200 gem upgrade to make ANY infinite mining pick have a chance to drop sprockets.

People are going to price based on demand/supply regardless of how their items are obtained. I’m pretty certain that Anet isn’t going to simply have them drop from trash mobs so it’s a safe bet that the whole market for precursors won’t crash. Frankly, the price could go up too, depending on the perception of players on how easy it is to craft vs. MF/purchasing it. We simply don’t know. What I do know is that a fear of something changing isn’t a reason to insist avoiding something be implemented.

I don’t see a problem if this crashed anyways … I hold little sympathy for people that speculate without acknowledging the risk associated with it. That’s just not a responsible approach.

While I feel the sentiment, I check the price: 1K gems … the others were only 800 gems at regular price. You pay for that added function on the new one.

While I would like the opportunity to refund (because I have 4 such picks), I don’t get why Anet would allow it. The most reasonable solution here is to allow people to pay 200 gems on an upgrade for their current infinite mining picks.

What makes you think the market would crash if the were sellable …. other than just saying it?

From my perspective, A precursor is just another material that you need, like any other material you can purchase; they should be sellable. I don’t think Anet actually cares if legendaries are commonplace or not; why would they? They obviously want all people have a means to get one …

Legendary aren’t about prestige or a fancy skin … it’s about a configurable weapon. My take is that precursors that you can sell might have some downward pressure because people will be able to gauge their time for the reward, as opposed to gambling on MF. ON the other hand, how many people are going to MF rares for a precursor? I think the biggest impact is that ectos are going to get really cheap.