(edited by Obtena.7952)
It’s completely valid. I buy upgrades to software all the time, even if it has some shared functionality (and I don’t tend to cry to the company that I purchased their older versions so I should get a deal) … that’s exactly what the pick is. What makes the comparison relevant is the purchasing behaviour of people. Again, put some old software in a green vs. a blue box is not going to sell you more units … but adding some extra function to the software will sell more than the box change.
Are you even aware of how innovation works? This isn’t different. The business model depends on people buying stuff. Cosmetic changes aren’t good selling points.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
My biggest hangup with these things is that they suffer the ill effects of BOTH a skill (limited uptime and cooldown) and a pet (it can die).
Either make the weapon so it can’t die ( but have a set uptime and cooldown like a REAL skill does) OR …
Make the spirit weapons like pets, but in the case of Guardians, that pet would occupy a skill slot.
Either of those are reasonable compromises IMO. While it doesn’t fix SW’s to make them worth using, it’s close.
I wouldn’t advise AH in that situation actually. It might heal alot but if the momentum of the zerg defensive skills doesn’t keep you alive, the only think that will really help you is #6 (I like the signet for that situation) and Renewed Focus. I would recommend hammer though. It’s AOE damage goodness all the time and protection at the SAME TIME, unlike the staff where you have to choose between the heal or the AA spamming. The typical 15/15/0/20/20 is perfect as well.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Only me? or am I the only one that think the guardian moves like turtles.. we could also need some Signet for movement, would be perfect!
Thank you!
Mesmers are slower than us. but yeah excluding us and Mesmer every class as an 25% permanent movement increase or can have perma swiftness (Warriors and Engineers)
You…do realize that Guardians have 100% swiftness pretty easily, right? Staff + Retreat + Save Yourselves.
Hell, even thieves can’t get 100% swiftness without using centaur runes.
You do realize a setup like that is severely limited in application? I’m not for Guardians getting more movement speed through the concept of the class (Runes of the traveler are fine) but I don’t think the capability to get it through some layered approach of skills + weapon abilities closes the book on this either.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Their motivation to release successively better P2W has nothing to do with pushing some boundary or precedents. It has everything to do with paying the bills. People better get accustomed to this fast if they don’t want to see the business model of the game change (i.e., monthly fees, restricted content, paid expansions)
So the only way to generate revenue is with vertical progression and “successively better P2W”. That is what you’re saying here?
No, I didn’t say it was the only way … There are lots of ways for a game to generate revenue but the only one worth discussing is the way it DOES generate revenue. If people are going to ignore the business model for the game, then they can invent any nonsensical scenario they want … not that it would be at all relevant. I guess some people find it hard to bring themselves into reality when playing MMOs …
The sales potential of an item in the shop goes down as the number of people with said item goes up. It’s not a hard concept. The way to keep people buying is to improve the offerings.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
fact: more and more players leave GW2.
Hopefully all the ones that want mounts.
I tried SW’s again today. Exactly this … having to refresh too often, even with mastery traited.
GW1 is/was buy to play, no monthly fee. The cash shop (which developed years after release) only sold costumes, and account upgrades that would let new players (who had no interest in pve) jump fully into PvP.
This isn’t GW1 so whatever happened there isn’t relevant here. SOMETHING funds this game, and it’s not thin air and wishful thinking. It’s MONEY and this game makes its money from gemstore. If this game is to continue running, you’re only going to see MORE items and enhancements, not less.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Then you’re simply denying yourself the advantages of the items because they aren’t going to stop coming. If people don’t buy them, they are only going to get better, faster, not go away, Why? because fancy skins on mining tools has only so much mileage to appeal to players … at some point stuff has to get better or different to pay the bills. It’s inevitable. I think you forget the reason you don’t pay a monthly fee … it’s because of all items Anet sell in the gemstore. If a few are P2W (this one certainly is far from that), you shouldn’t complain because the guy buying them is funding the game i.e., he’s paying FOR YOU to play FOR FREE. It’s a selfish outlook.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
And for the price, they are CHEAP mats to buy … much cheaper and faster than having the pick.
You keep saying that like prices aren’t subject to change. They’ve more than tripled in cost since the “Oh, they’re only 34c” defense was first mounted.
I never said that. The math has been done … I will leave it to you to figure out how much gold a sprocket will have to be worth before the pick makes a sound investment.
sprockets are fairly useless
I keep seeing this myopic argument crop up. Useless like the 4m+ silk scraps that were at or around vendor price until recently? Arguing that this is harmless because you don’t value sprockets assumes that demand (and thus value) isn’t dynamic, reactive and volatile (and entirely at the mercy of the anet economist, as was silk).
This also applies to those arguing that it is fine because “I now have a sprocket node in my personal instance”. If you can’t see the difference between a limited, time gated personal node, and a mining tool which generates sprockets whenever a resource node is mined on an unlimited basis, you really need to try and understand the concept of supply and why this is grossly inappropriate.
I might not be the first person to point this out, but a mechanism is used to craft the gift of blades. So. . .
And for the price, they are much CHEAPER to buy than the pick itself so instead people being upset they didn’t get a pick, they should breathe a sigh of relief.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
If the pick is so P2W like lots of people are claiming, then it should be an obvious buy.
No. Because it’s pay-to-win, many are not buying because it sets a bad precedent. If enough people buy this, then Anet knows they can push even further into P2W territory for their next item. Anet would be stupid to not do this because it makes them money in the short/medium term.
Their motivation to release successively better P2W has nothing to do with pushing some boundary or precedents. It has everything to do with paying the bills. People better get accustomed to this fast if they don’t want to see the business model of the game change (i.e., monthly fees, restricted content, paid expansions)
(edited by Obtena.7952)
If the pick is so P2W like lots of people are claiming, then it should be an obvious buy.
I’m not sure what information you are referring to that is lacking. It was clear to me what this item offered. In no way is this a P2W item like lots of poeple are claiming … if it is, it’s less P2W than simply buying gold with gems and I don’t see anyone complaining about that. That ‘P2W’ argument against these enhanced infinite gathering tools is just a non-starter.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
You had the opportunity to buy it … you only have yourself to complain to if you didn’t get it.
It’s nothing considering how much gold the equivalent gems would get … the argument doesn’t change, regardless of the price of sprockets.
You can’t complain anyways … you had the chance to buy it.
Really dont get the hate for torch #5 in this thread. Cone aoe damage, cond removal on allies and now cond removal on us. I cant see why it SHOULD do any more damage at that point considering you can clear that many conditions with it an still do decent damage to groups.
I’m not the most avid PVPer but this change just tells me that if you want the cleansing needed in today’s PVP meta, you have to run Torch. That’s not so bad until you realize it’s a great effect coupled to a terrible weapon.
Anet just wants my condi build to die in a fire….. I am sad. The only thing I’m looking forward to now is the runes and sigils change, maybe that is the reason I’ve been shunted.
I think this might not be bad … they couldn’t improve Cond builds with Kindred Zeal in there …
obviously thats why warriors have low tier HP …
You’re almost there … do Guardians need a boost to balance or does something else need to happen? Maybe warriors SHOULDN’T be in the top tier of HP. You approach really didn’t consider that did it? You just concluded Guardians need more HP because it’s what you want, not because it makes sense.
Don’t get me wrong, Guardians need work but more HP isn’t going to fix that. You get to take another hit while your opponent is running circles around you … so what?
(edited by Obtena.7952)
but that does not stop me for expressing my opinion.
… and no one said you shouldn’t. I’m simply challenging your point of view because like I said, professions aren’t balanced (or shown to be unbalanced) based on a singular comparison to what is already OP’ed.
guardian does not completely suck but its getting more medicore with each patch and i dont think its very logical to have the lowest health on a heavy armored class that is mele oriented and takes beating.
Other classes are just as melee oriented and take beatings as well, so the only thing that seems exceptional from your statement is the heavy armor … which makes me think that it’s COMPLETELY logical for the heaviest armored class to have the lowest health tier.
I can’t disprove something that is your sensational opinion. I haven’t got an issue with people talking about Guardians but what are we talking about? Guardians are balanced at nothing according to you. That’s simply not an objective position, that’s not a starting point for a constructive discussion.
You want to have the focal point of your discussion around what warriors do that Guardians can’t. You picked warriors because it makes your statement for you. Why did you stop at warriors? If you would look at more classes, this would lead to a more objective, constructive discussion about where Guardians REALLY rank in the ‘balance’.
I want Guardians to get the necessary attention where it’s needed because frankly, if you only want to compare Guardians to one the more OPed classes in the game and concluding we aren’t OP’ed, then you’re going to have a hard time convincing anyone that there is actually a problem with Guardians.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I’m not making an argument, I’m just pointing out how sensational yours is. Your opinion is narrow and selective; you’ve cherry-picked your comparison to make your point. I could do the same to ‘prove’ your wrong, but that would be nonsense.
Instead I will direct you to the recent vote put to the players about the 3 worst classes. THAT is a better indication of where Guardians stand for balance. HINT: It’s not NO balance.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
It certainly doesn’t give anyone the indication that trinkets will be nerfed more than armor. That seems more like wishful thinking than anything.
‘sigh’ ….
Nothing you said here gives anyone the confidence to go ahead with the creation of ascended Zerker gear if concerned about the incoming changes. Arguments about ‘ratios’ ignore the two fundamental statements that Anet devs made about how this will be implemented. Nothing they said indicates that some ‘ratio’ you have grasped to for your argument will be maintained, ever. Your head is in the sand and your advice is poorly given.
The OP’s concern is about survival, your position is a response to someone (correctly) being concerned about the impact that ferocity will have on zerker’s gear. Crit damage ratios aren’t even a relevant metric to look at for determining ferocity and it’s impact on damage overall … Ferocity is simply going to take the value of the secondary stat, which we already know. Whatever ratios you are clinging to are simply not relevant once this happens.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
is there any reason why i have to sit on around 11k hp on a dps guardian
while warriors can effortlessly sit at 20 k and have better mobility ,speed and healing signet which is the most hax skill in the game?
Probably because Guardian balance isn’t determined by what non-Guardian classes do?
really because its a different class it means there should not be any balance at all?
That’s your opinion that there is NO balance at all. It’s my opinion that you’re making sensational generalizations. Guardians have issues but … NO balance at all? You really want someone to respect that position? Certainly not anyone with the authority to change it.
HOLY CLEAVAGE!!!
http://dulfy.net/2014/02/19/gw2-zodiac-armor-skin-gallery/
GW2 just became the Side Boob Hour
Just the side? I’m a fan of them and all that but … wow, they should leave something to the imagination.
I was disappointed the armor didn’t come with some drumsticks.
There are numerous ways to get 25%-33% speed buff. There are numerous waypoints that are very cheap spread across all of the maps. Mounts are therefore useless and just screen clutter.
i find waypoints a cheap excuse to argue against mounts, they are the pin point to show why we should have mounts.
immerse your self in a world while using waypoints, thumbs up if you can even do that for a millisecond.
It’s not an excuse because mounts wouldn’t be a substitute for waypoints in this game. Immersion is not an excuse to argue FOR mounts either (I’m quite immersed having to run, since I’m familiar with the concept of running IRL). The argument is that mounts aren’t needed because transport isn’t an issue in the game. Waypoints are also accessible to players any level as long as they are unlocked. Mounts, no matter how cheap, would have to be earned/purchased. I’ve played games where mounts are a social status or game advantage. It sucks to be the guy that everyone waits for to run there with no mount. You stay behind … literally. Waypoints are fair, equal treatment for everyone. Mounts are not.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
is there any reason why i have to sit on around 11k hp on a dps guardian
while warriors can effortlessly sit at 20 k and have better mobility ,speed and healing signet which is the most hax skill in the game?
Probably because Guardian balance isn’t determined by what non-Guardian classes do?
I didn’t miss the point; people are guessing on how the change will be implemented and using that as ADVICE for how to gear up in ascended armor. I can appreciate that some well-intentioned people have tried to determine what percent is happening here and there but it’s all just speculation and it’s not based on what we have been told because frankly, we haven’t been told much. The only info we know is:
1. Crit damage (which already holds a place as a secondary trait) is being changed to ferocity that has a conversion rate we don’t know, but will likely be set to adjust to give …
2. Zerker builds about a 10% drop in damage
That’s not enough to tell anyone in what ascended armor to invest into. It certainly doesn’t give anyone the indication that trinkets will be nerfed more than armor. That seems more like wishful thinking than anything. This is how I think the ‘nerf’ will happen:
1. They will change crit damage to ferocity; they will make ferocity value = secondary stat.
2. They will determine the conversion rate by asking themselves what rate will give a 10% DPS cut on a Zerker build.
Why? Because it’s simple and it fits what they said they would do.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
There are no tanks in this game.
What our friend here means to say is that there is no active tanking in the game; we don’t have tools that taunt and hold aggro on mobs like other games.
What he’s not telling you is that there are builds that take hits better than others, though how useful that might be as a focus on a build is debatable since no one definitively knows WHAT attributes determines which player draws aggro or WHEN; it seems rather random at times, though some people get more agg than others.
Since no one can play to actively tank, it doesn’t make sense to present you a build for tanking but if you are looking for a build that takes a hit better than anything else, it would be Knights gear and a hammer for the frequent application of the protection boon through it’s symbol.
To suggest actual traits themselves, I will leave that to someone else but be aware that SOMEONE is definitely going to throw the meta at you; a build that requires a minimum threshold of competence to play and knowledge of the content you are going to do. When they do, you should be aware that this is the build that many highly competent players use. You should try it to see if it suits you.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
It’s also hard to know how the crit nerf is gonna affect gear, zerk exo to asc might become even less difference than it is now.
Nah, it’s pretty safe to bet that crit damage ratios on the armor pieces won’t change significantly. Right now, asc armor has 6 % more crit damage than exo, after the nerf it will be 5 % more. Nothing you’ll notice. However, the trinkets will get a severe nerf.
Really? That’s a pretty strong statement considering that DPS with a zerker’s setup is going down 10%. If they aren’t going to take that 10% off by adjusting crit damages (and therefore, ratios), then … how will Anet accomplish that? I believe this is exactly what will happen … Anet will hit the ferocity conversion hard to accomplish this. Once crit damage is replaced by ferocity, the ratios will indeed change because we have been told it will be treated like a secondary stat.
Honestly, the safest thing to do is just wait. It’s not hard to trade guessing for patience.
Personally, as much as I dislike the idea, celestial will be my choice. I can push the build in whatever direction I want with trinkets/food/legendary stat change if needed while having a good core base of skills to work off.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
So what incentive do I have to not call them out on mechanic mistakes and not fulfilling statements made like “I’ll come back and we’ll talk”? Its not an isolated incident, its a pattern.
The incentive to not appear like a child that doesn’t get it’s way? I don’t think anyone is pleased how this December dev interaction turned out, but if we are mature about it, future interactions can proceed in a positive manner, or at all.
Frankly, based on the PLAYER’S own feedback on what professions need help, the last thing we need is our own profession supporters creating an even more toxic communication to Anet devs by acting out. Time to grow up a bit.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I agree that some response WAS warranted but what would the point be now? We know the answer. Move on people.
You guys are the reason devs don’t interact with players.
Bump … I’m not impressed by the behaviour exhibited in this thread by Anet or the players, but at least Anet knows enough to drop it and move on to the next thing.
Oh, BTW … notice that Guardians are next to last on the vote for what profs need help? Another reason for people to drop the childish behaviour and kitteny attitudes if we want devs to look into this profession with some input from the players.
Bottomline: we aren’t an approachable community with all the people acting out.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Even the fact that something THIS bad possibly comes from the devs is disappointing. I’m just assuming that’s the source but I wouldn’t put it past them at this point.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
If your openworld PVE, then I can’t recommend a hammer/shout build. This is because
1. The cool stuff you get with a hammer will happen closer to the end of the encounters your having (you’re going to OPEN with #2 and you fight mostly trash mobs)
2. Shouts don’t you much in open world PVE. They are on-demand “OH CRAP” skills.
My recommendation is a 20/25/0/20/5 build with GS, the power signet, Purging Flame and the stability shout. definitely Zerker’s armor, because surviving openworld trash is simply done popping VoR and VoC.
Making more spirit weapons doesn’t make spirit weapons good. I hope this load of trash doesn’t make it ingame. It’s a cruel joke … Take 1 part junk (spirit weapons) and add another part crap (burning) to make something terrible.
If mounts are already available in the world, just just get on one and go for a photo session. Why bother introducing them if they are already there?
OK, I see. In case people aren’t aware, you can trade in soulbound for equivalent accountbound …. at no extra cost. Some salt in the wound there I know.
The key issue with crafting components in this game is that there’s not really much worthwhile to obtain with them.
I can’t beat the guy with the back office access to the data, but as someone on the front end farming and selling these crafting materials, I come to the conclusion that you and I can’t be playing the same game.
Just run a mix of both, though I would lean towards more Zealot’s because of DR on Toughness.
If your bored, you need to challenge yourself a bit. Meta might do that for you but if you are even more adventurous:
25/25/0/20/0 (for more symbol pain) or 25/25/0/0/20 (if your megapro and don’t need vigor regen and can keep up the aegis)
Here is the caveat: It’s not meta, so people can ignore this post if they just want to preach about how meta is so awesome for everything all the time.
Easy answer is that PVE is not the same as WvW. You’re more likely to be accepted with Soldiers gear, but probably not much. The bottom line is that some people care about running dungeons as fast as they can. This means they want to team people that do alot of damage. Unfortunately, being a Guardian, you already have a significant amount of defense in your base toolset. If a player is skilled and knowledgeable with the content, it’s common to see them using full zerker and not get downed.
TLDR .. clerics has very low damage and people like fast dungeon runs. More damage = fast, therefore, they don’t like clerics.
At least run knights but zerker will give guaranteed slot with PUGs.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I’m not sure why I keep reading this but my molten and bone picks didn’t cost 1K gems so ?
It’s not a meta-hate. Some people just recognize that it’s not always the answer to every request for advice about builds.
Anything is “viable”. Go look at naked dungeon runs. This isn’t the point. Its about choosing things over other things because they are better.
Um, it is EXACTLY the point because that’s what the OP is asking for.
Anything is technically viable…. So we should say yes to everything…. You just need patience and a lot of time on your hands.
BINGO! I’m glad you said it because THAT is what is true here. It’s not about bad this or awesome that, it’s about a bunch of people that insist others play the meta because they don’t like teaming non-meta players. Why? because it wastes their time. That’s not a problem that can be solved by discouraging players and builds.
@Ob
But the heals are so pathetically small from it…. Its not even worth it.
That’s funny because as much as everyone proclaims the greatness of 25 Virtue, I thought the exact same thing … the damage you get from it is so pathetically small from it that it’s not even worth it. I’m being a bit facetious here but the point is that heal accumulate. By itself, it’s not the greatest, but then again, if someone wants a healing build (whether we think it’s necessary or not), it’s how healing works in this game. From that concept, AH is plenty viable.
Anything is “viable”. Go look at naked dungeon runs. This isn’t the point. Its about choosing things over other things because they are better.
Um, it is EXACTLY the point because that’s what the OP is asking for.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
AH does have that drawback; players that use it tend to hit shouts as heals instead of when the shout SHOULD be used. That doesn’t make AH bad, it just makes it a tool that can be used improperly. Used correctly, it’s very effective, just like the meta used correctly, allows players to rely on their base toolset for sufficient defense, allowing them to focus on the more desirable features of the profession.
Bad players are bad, discouraging them from using AH doesn’t change that and throwing them into builds that need more skill than the average player has just amplifies their bad play.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I’ve mentioned this somewhere, I think we can all expect new unlimited tools to have bonus mats to drop as well (with the increase in price over the base unlimited tools like the pick). New skins on unlimited farming tools can’t pay the bills forever.
@Obtena: That’s one way of looking at it, but by that same argument, Ascended gear is also “not better” since it’s ridiculously expensive for a marginal benefit over Exotic. And yet, the high prices for T7 mats and Ascended recipes says that there are lots of players in the game still going for Ascended gear.
The number of players going for it is not indicative that it’s ‘undeniably the best pick’ though. It just happens to be the only one you can purchase right now.
(edited by Obtena.7952)