Guild Wars 2

LezardValeth.9453:

Do not submit to false consciousness, there are other ways.

The fact is that Anet doesn’t have a vested interest in seeing people play necros so there is no false consciousness. If a class doesn’t get played, that’s more of a reason to simply do nothing to it. Your advice to boycott playing necros hurts players, not Anet.

LezardValeth.9453:

The only way to truly get the attention necromancers need is to stop playing your necromancer character and play another class.

This is possibly the WORST approach to getting the attention the class needs. If no one plays the class, then Anet truly has a reason to not listen to the people who aren’t playing it. As well, as things change, what you think might have been wrong with the class 6 months ago may not be the new ‘wrong’ thing to complain about.

No, the best way to get attention is to be on top of how the class is integrated into the game.

I can see where it’s insane because salvaging is a one-click operation. Listing an item a lot more involved.

ODB.6891:

Essentially this idea is to lengthen the boss fight so players take turns.

No, the idea is to make gear choice matter by making encounter/mob designs that aren’t so 1 dimensional. If players do make choices that are smart, it doesn’t necessarily lengthen boss fights. On the other hand, if players choose to ignore making choices and stick with one set of gear, then there are obvious consequences to that.

ODB.6891:

Obtena.7952:

Manuelito.6081:

Hunter.4783:

im calling you all zerker drones because you are unwilling to look for other options which might open after this patch, zerker is best for running CoF p1 or for bragging about lupi solo kills.

Not so optimal when u do dredge fractal 49.

PS: I love your comeback about cleric gear. Shows your ignorance. There is more than just full zerker and cleric to this game

I am unwilling to look for suboptimal options. Once I will feel that my gear in full berserker is suboptimal, I will look for alternatives.
Using full berserker gear also requires experience and skill; it is not facerolling every boss.
If someone still is learning the ropes it is possible to find some mixed gear combinations which might give more survivability and forgive some mistakes. In the end though, if you know what to do and want to be more efficient: berserker gear.

Hopefully as Anet goes through this exercise of ‘meta-shifting’, they determine the most interesting approach is to not give players an optimized choice in gear.

How can there ever not be an optimized choice in gear? Whatever gear is most effective immediately becomes the optimized choice.

It’s easy to think of ways to minimize or prevent ‘optimal’ gear choices. Immediately is your qualifier there. I can imagine an encounter where different bosses are affected differently by direct and condition damage for instance. That would mean if I’m out to be ‘optimal’, I’m swapping gear and even traits during the encounter.

Even more extreme, I don’t even see why a ‘de-optimization scheme’ can’t be dynamic on a boss so you can’t even swapping won’t do you any good. Imagine a phased boss where in one phase, he’s immune to crits, another, he’s ONLY damaged by crits. Can be anything you can think of really.

Not reading != to a con

Why would it be a priority? It works. There is no blatant destruction of the whole market because of a handful of dyes. Lesson learned …. Anet doesn’t protect speculators, especially if it means they can make money.

I can imagine a cashstop item to level a crafting skill … but at a cost that reflects market value of mats needed to level crafting the normal way plus a premium that reflects the time and effort saved. I don’t think it’s a price many people would pay though, so I doubt it would be implemented.

I can also imagine a cashstop item that would remove the Soul or Account bound property on an item, making it sellable. That’s more likely I think, as it would promote crafting instead of discourage it.

I think this has alot to do with the business model they have chosen.

1. If you make stuff hard, less people will be capable/interested/willing to do it.
2. If you make stuff easy, not only do you get more people doing the content, you get more people willing to repeat the content to chase a carrot than would be repeatedly attempting and sometime failing to do hard stuff.
3. The more people you have in a game, the more people there is to ‘do stuff with’ over all time zones, adding to your chance to do easy content and get carrots faster.
4. The more kinds of flavours of carrots you add, the more appealing doing repeated content successfully whenever you want becomes.

All this leads to a F2P with cashstop model that gives the ROI they want because the formula for people spending money in the cashstop isn’t if you’re hardcore/casual or pro/noob, it’s how much the game appeals to you and how long you figure you’re going to play it to get value from whatever you buy in the shop.

If they were to introduce ‘hard’ content, I would really question Anet’s confidence in the viability of the game, because from a business case, that seems like too much work for too little gain. It doesn’t fit their model.

murven.7581:

First of all you insist in claiming that 2% == 0% which is certainly false.

I never insisted anything of the sort.

murven.7581:

Second, you fail to acknowledge the fact that people who like to craft should be able to sell the result of their effort to others.

I haven’t failed to do that because people can do exactly that. It’s simply restricted to exclude the majority of BiS gear. Though, if you had a more objective look at this, you would recognize that certain crafted materials for ascended gear can be sold, so your argument is not completely accurate. Perhaps if you had a more objective look at this whole issue, you could think of a plausible reason why Anet doesn’t want someone to simply buy a full set of BiS gear.

murven.7581:

Third, you are not willing to acknowledge the fact that when someone is willing to spend gold on a premium, no matter how small or useless it is, they should be entitled to do so

I’m not going to acknowledge something that isn’t true. People aren’t entitled to anything, just because they are willing to do something for it. That argument is ridiculous.

Actually, I think it’s a nice bridge between Zerk and Valks. I also like more recovery on HP than I like higher pool, though many heal power conversions are still questionable on our traits. It’s probably going to be very decent with Zeal 20/GS setup.

^^ Whoa … who says the underlying game mechanic will not be changed? Let’s be honest for the benefit of the OP …. no one at Anet said ‘underlying game mechanics will not be changed’. The only thing they said was that zerkers will still be the highest damage gear. That doesn’t mean to say they aren’t going to make changes where the highest damage gear is always the best choice (re. Teq)

Manuelito.6081:

Hunter.4783:

im calling you all zerker drones because you are unwilling to look for other options which might open after this patch, zerker is best for running CoF p1 or for bragging about lupi solo kills.

Not so optimal when u do dredge fractal 49.

PS: I love your comeback about cleric gear. Shows your ignorance. There is more than just full zerker and cleric to this game

I am unwilling to look for suboptimal options. Once I will feel that my gear in full berserker is suboptimal, I will look for alternatives.
Using full berserker gear also requires experience and skill; it is not facerolling every boss.
If someone still is learning the ropes it is possible to find some mixed gear combinations which might give more survivability and forgive some mistakes. In the end though, if you know what to do and want to be more efficient: berserker gear.

Hopefully as Anet goes through this exercise of ‘meta-shifting’, they determine the most interesting approach is to not give players an optimized choice in gear.

murven.7581:

When did everyone including ArenaNet start thinking that everyone should craft?

They don’t. That’s why the ratio of stats increase between ascended and exotic armor is so low and the ratio of ascended to exotic armor cost is so high. That’s why you can outfit you’re other slots with BiS through NOT crafting them.

Phi Is Sly.1857:

no balance changes? yet new you managed to get a new cash shop item in :S?

yeah … another way to pose the question:

No monthly fee? yet they managed to keep the game F2P?!

People that like to craft don’t have a beef with crafting their gear though … so this thread doesn’t represent them correctly.

Frankly, it doesn’t matter how many people it affects … no one is forced to craft. See points a, b, and c from my post.

murven.7581:

Obtena.7952:

Bombsaway.7198:

OP is right on the money. ANet has a diverse population of players. Forcing any single method in game is not going to keep population or gem purchases high. Simple as that.

WHEW! It’s a good thing that crafting isn’t forced onto anyone.

You mean it isn’t forced onto anyone as long as they are willing to play the game without having the best available stats, right?

Well, no. A more objective examination of the ‘problem’ would reveal the following truths.

1. All ascended trinkets are bought or drop from doing fractals and in fact, NONE can be crafted.
2. The ‘best’ available stats on ascended armor are only about a 2% increase in performance over exotic armor. Overall the gear, that’s an even smaller percent than that. You’re going to argue that’s the best, but the reality is that that increase is just noise in gameplay. In otherwords, damage output varies more than this if you miss a special.
3. The ‘best’ available stats weapons can be purchased instead of crafted.

So really, what people are exaggerating into a issue that seems to affect everyone only affects a portion of the population that:

a) doesn’t want to craft and …
b) doesn’t understand how a insignificant increase in stats impact gameplay and …
c) forgot that most BiS gear is not crafted

Bombsaway.7198:

OP is right on the money. ANet has a diverse population of players. Forcing any single method in game is not going to keep population or gem purchases high. Simple as that.

WHEW! It’s a good thing that crafting isn’t forced onto anyone.

Zerkers will still be the highest damage armor you can wear. Base your decision on that.

I have an opinion but what is more valuable is facts: no one is forced to level crafting. I really dislike hearing this fallacy because you don’t need to craft to have almost full ascended gear effectiveness. If people have complaints, they should at least be honest.

Frankly, I see no issue with how it’s implemented. Ascended armor is designed as is so you DON’T need to craft it if you don’t want to and still be within a very high stats count with exotics and purchased or free ascended trinkets. The only piece anyone can claim that has a significant increase in performance that you HAVE to craft is the weapons and even then a Legendary can be bought.

There are two things this thread (and many others on other classes) don’t consider:

1. Skill level needed to play competently
2. Skill level needed to master

IMO, Necro is easy to play but to master takes far more effort than many other less complex professions.

While I don’t think the meta is changing much based on this single change, the whole premise that killing a mob faster makes zerkers the best gear in PVE just got 10% less meaningful. It’s all relative anyways … as long as zerkers does the most damage, it’s always going to be regarded as the best PVE gear for an engineered team of pros. I think the only time that will be challenged with an rigour is if they adjust parameters that make defensive stats more important/necessary. For example, unblockable environmental damage. I don’t doubt that’s coming faster than we think so at some point, these arguments might actually come interesting debates when everyone is brought into a more strategic consideration.

Careful … you can optimize anything given restrictions, but I do get your meaning; you can’t have a build that very good for one and also very good for the other.

Painbow.6059:

GS auto attack is weak and should be used on rotation in order for it to reach it’s full potential with s/focus

Let’s tone down the extremes here. 1. Few people simply AA on GS, even if they aren’t swapping to other weapons. 2. Lazy just doesn’t matter … GS brings alot of damage on it’s own without swapping. 3. The OP isn’t using S/focus anyways so … the relevance is questionable. Sure, he can swap to it in PVE but he’s already not swapping gear, what makes any reasonable person think he’s going to optimize DPS swapping S/F + GS? It’s not matching the profile.

I’m thinking … dust.

Brutal Arts.6307:

zilcho.7624:

To be clear, I’m not talking about profit-seeking. (Farming mats and selling them, for example.) That is a normal, healthy activity which adds real value to a game’s economy.

But that is an AWFUL way to make a profit. Have you tried T6 mat farming? It’s literally 8th circle of hell Bolgia 4 punishment. I would not wish it upon anyone. Not even the Chinese.

Derail: Actually, it has a very good risk/reward profile, especially if you farming the right stuff and selling it at the right time.

^^ I’m shaking my head here … can you elaborate on how ‘camping’ a GS on a Guardian is lazy? That seems to be an outrageous statement, considering GS is a very high damage output and the build presented has sufficient damage and support, considering it’s to be used in both WvW and PVE situations.

Your advice doesn’t fit with the restrictions the OP presented … the build is for both WvW and PVE. I’m being assuming here but if the OP wanted two different builds for each, he wouldn’t be asking for an opinion for a single build for each.

Painbow.6059:

I don’t understand why people don’t like dps dominance?

I like DPS dominance but I don’t like it more than having DPS build choice. Maybe I just talked myself into it but if Anet is giving us 10+ combo sets, it seems the the intent is not fully realized if only one of those provides me an optimized PVE build. There are so many knock on effects (unbalanced demand for mats for example) because of this. I really can’t imagine it was intended to work the way it does at the moment.

Pretty meh IMO … Improving to heals to make them balanced with heals we use. Change to VP which won’t affect build decisions.

Because soldiers DPS isn’t affected by this change … it doesn’t have crit damage or what will be ferocity. So zerkers goes down, soldiers stays the same, hence the gap is closed a bit. Same with Valk.

Aza.2105:

Obtena.7952:

The impact of that is significant … it affects two of the three primary power stat combos. Relatively, this brings zerks and valk closer to soldiers DPS.

Can you elaborate a bit? I can’t really see your perspective.

Sure … they are removing crit damage as a stat and replacing it with Ferocity. They will use the conversion rate of Ferocity to balance the damage output of builds that use it and their target for that conversion rate will be whatever rate gives 10% less damage on a full zerkers build. This will also impact other gear that has crit damage as it will also be replaced with Ferocity. .

Fenrir.3609:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think it’s just zerker builds … I believe they were going to attempt to get the 10% damage reduction by adjusting the conversion rate of Ferocity. This won’t only affect zerker, it will affect any builds with Ferocity stat.

The impact of that is significant … it affects two of the three primary power stat combos. Relatively, this brings zerks and valk closer to soldiers DPS.

Great, if you use zerk you can have soldier dps with non of the tank!

No, Zerks is still the DPS king, it’s just less damage.

I don’t think it’s just zerker builds … I believe they were going to attempt to get the 10% damage reduction by adjusting the conversion rate of Ferocity. This won’t only affect zerker, it will affect any builds with Ferocity stat.

The impact of that is significant … it affects two of the three primary power stat combos. Relatively, this brings zerks and valk closer to soldiers DPS.

By itself, crit damage won’t effect meta but I think we are all experienced enough at MMOs to know this won’t be the only change they make to impact the meta in the direction they want it.

BTW, the first salvo from Anet has been launched: a 10% damage reduction to DPS builds through a change removing crit damage and replacing with a new conversion stat called Ferocity.

Not yet … typing this as they are presenting so … not all details in here.

Livestream Summary

1. Zerks is still THE DPS gear set, but overall, it’s taking a 10% damage reduction
2. New trait replacing crit damage: Ferocity. Still increases crit damage but is a stat that uses a conversion rate, like all other stats. Will allow for better way to balance crit rate optimized/unoptimized gear slots.
3. 2H weapons will have 2 sigils to make them more fair with 1H setups
4. Each Sigil will have it’s own cooldown e.g. battle and energy can be used together but not energy/energy.
5. Increasing stat weights in the higher teirs (4,5,6 level bonus) and adding more durations to specific sets. A little subtle but I understand the goal is to promote the use of whole sets instead of mixing/matching to maximize boon duration, for example.
6. Fixing Rune bugs, like procs that don’t work or just junky things.
7. Open to suggestions to new PVP stat combos, runes and sigils … nothing was proposed as new stat combos in the livestream.
8. Next patch will have balance changes as well as feature changes.

Guardian balance changes: (if they fooled around less, I would have this information by now …)

1. Litany of Wrath: reduced cast time to 3/4s, option to 1/2 later because it’s reactionary
2. Vig Precision: 5 to 10 second cooldown
3. Healing Breeze rework: Didn’t catch the numbers but it’s a bigger upfront heal with ticks with good scaling to healing power and increased to allies too.

PVP is not affected by the crit changes … they say they like how crits work in PVP, so the PVP stats will not change.

I’m not so convinced a Guardian bringing team condition removal has as much value as everyone thinks, depending of course who you team with. If you want to have team condition removal, it’s a skill swap away and even then, it’s pretty conditional depending on who’s standing where when you use it. Putting traits to it makes me feel really hand-tied.

Ewww … I hate Asian

Level 21 is still not the best … you can get copper or silver. I never received a copper on my level 32 chest camper.

^^ That is a healthy attitude and the business people at Anet aren’t fools … it’s probably part of their business model to the game that influences the decision to not have a monthly fee.

The great thing about Anet’s approach is that even though some vitriolic-spewing people are adamant that they don’t’ care about the game, this couldn’t be farther from the truth. With a F2P, gemshop business model, they have to care more and more often because they don’t trap players with subscription fees. They need lots of people to play and FREELY spend their RL money. You don’t do that by introducing things …. and then not caring if they are good.

I won’t pretend to know how or if it will change but if it does, I look forward to experimenting with different builds again. I’m having difficulty with posters that are complaining about it. I don’t think an objective opinion on such a change would cause anyone to complain.

laharl.8435:

If the fix is so dramatic that skilled play is no longer rewarded, and the game turns into gimmicky puzzles and time gates etc., then gw2 will lose many players.

Could be, but the game isn’t targeting uberskilled players in the first place so it seems to me that any change made to the meta that allows for people to move away from a small subset of optimized builds favouring highly-skilled players makes sense.

In a game that should appeal to the most players, something that balances stats for various content makes sense.

stale.9785:

Obtena.7952:

For me, it makes sense to balance around sPvP because honestly, PVE is easy and no changes to any traits, etc… will change that.

Remember though, PvE players are the ones paying to keep the game online. It’s a simple truth. More than 90% of the gaming population will NEVER set foot into a PvP venue.

Perhaps not regularly kittening off the masses that pay their salaries is something they should consider.

I’m aware of this but it doesn’t really matter because anything we get for PVE will work since it’s so simple. Regardless, the thread itself is a half truth … PVE is not constantly nerfed for the sake of PVP.

cyrixblack.9073:

Please test out the fury build:
0/15/30/20/5

Without actual testing, it’s going to be horrendous for damage. No Zeal, No Multipliers, only intermittent high crit rates … this is probably only marginally better than 0/0/30/30/10

Odin The Wanderer.1763:

How do you suppose a Gaurdian is to hold aggro?

I don’t know but it doesn’t mean that if someone claims he’s tanking that he isn’t. I do understand what you are getting at …. someone can’t CHOOSE to tank, grab aggro and hold it through some active measure.

Still, if the guy got aggro, held it and survived at range, I don’t have a reason to not believe him even if we aren’t familiar with what makes aggro.

If the idea is to balance out stats so that things other than damage stats matter in PVE, it coul dbe done with mechanics like pulsing, unavoidable damage to make defensive stats matter, since the avoidable, telegraphed damage of mobs, etc… is too easy to avoid. Of course, people hate that as well because they think it’s not ‘skills-based’, which is true, but then again, how fun is it to play the same builds in the same dungeons with your eyes closed all the time?

Perhaps some more randomness … a dungeon could have fixed boss encounters but throw random things at teams as they progress, like traps but with random placement. That way, certain areas would require more balanced stats attainable by swapping gear or require some more clever thinking to get through.

For me, it makes sense to balance around sPvP because honestly, PVE is easy and no changes to any traits, etc… will change that.

laharl.8435:

Mhmm, ranging isn’t tanking.

Depends … if he’s holding aggro, he is. Tanks hold agg and survive. Doesn’t matter if he’s at range or not.

LordByron.8369:

“we don t want you to grind in order to prepare to have fun”…..

… and you don’t have to.

J Eberle.9312:

Obal has provided all that is required for dungeons in his build guide.

That’s nice but that’s not really a discussion related to the thread. I don’t think many people will disagree with the general feeling on the build and it’s certainly not a podium for being being beaten over the head by more “DPS for PVE” campaign rhetoric again.

The build and the guide presents some very interesting questions that shouldn’t be so quickly dismissed by anyone interested in a deeper understanding of the class.

What makes this build so bad is actually an interesting question. Also, what IS the minimum amount of support should a Guardian build have before it’s considered bad …. just like you and your friends think the answer to “the minimum amount of damage a Guardian build should have before it’s bad” is “as much as you can get”. The other interesting thing about the guide is his approach to actually making this build. It makes me wonder if there is actually a ‘bad’ approach to make a build? Are there fundamental things for certain classes that should be AVOIDED when making a build (like survival on Guardian?)

Tons of stuff to talk about.

J Eberle.9312:

Sword= all the ranged required for most pve. :|

Not being obtuse here but .. what does that have to do with the thread? Even if we are to interpret this statement as sword being a better DPS weapon, that still doesn’t really have anything to do with Nemesis’ build. His whole premise is that he has optimized DPS and survival. I’m really not sure that the typical Sword builds we are familiar with target those things specifically so the comparison your implying is questionable.

Don’t get me wrong: I’m not defending this build but I am defending the idea that if it is dismissed, it’s for reasons that make some sense.