That’s good and all, nothing to dispute there, at least nothing relevant to this thread. I just think it’s high time we look past the meta-centric view to kitten what is valued to players … when the meta-centric view of the game is highly irrelevant to most of the content, most of the players and ignores the reality that there is more to DPS than just what someone uses for a build.
It’s simply too narrow a focus to conclude a hammer power PVE build isn’t a thing or the class itself has little PVE value, just because ‘raids’.
A reduction in damage output doesn’t exclude scrapper from having similar damage output to core engi weapons; that POV excludes the actual damage coefficients, skill execution times and ICD’s of the weapons being compared. I haven’t done the calcs but anecdotally, damage output from hammer doesn’t feel all that different than other weapons/kits. Is it the best damage output? I don’t think that’s likely, but I don’t think that’s the purpose of the provision of that weapon to begin with anyways.
I’m not certain you can ignore hammer as a power DPS build, even if it’s not the best DPS output that can be achieved. That’s a mistake in looking at the value of everything else about the game that isn’t DPS. Besides, I don’t think it’s so easily forgotten that scrapper was intended as a PVP spec, or at least, not a DPS PVE spec. I think that explains well why there is not big damage buffs in SCrapper line.
The idea that Scrapper line causes a big drop in damage to exclude hammer as a good DPS power build also ignores the fact that the optimized power DPS rotation on an engi is frankly, absurd, and something the average player would never accomplish anyways. If regular player can accomplish most of what that optimized rotation can do for DPS by camping hammer, I would say hammer is more than qualified for consideration as a power DPS build.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I think that’s a little sensational … Anet definitely pushes more content than a day’s worth for the market they target. Remember, the whole premise of this game is aimed at casual gamer. I think if I went back to a few hours a week of playtime, I would be challenged to complete the LS segments before the next would be released.
To be fair, I don’t think any MMO gets this right and IIRC, Anet isn’t so big like other game devs that get it closer. I’ve yet to play any release/expansion that has so much content, that I’m JUST finishing it right up to the next one. Of course, that just says one thing … ‘amount’ of content is not an objective measure. I think that MMO’s use the tactic to drag out content by making it overly cumbersome or difficult or unappealing. That creates the illusion that there is ‘more’ to do than an MMO that doesn’t.
Despite the sensational, I do think there isn’t enough depth behind the achievements and the content. Everything is relatively the same level of difficulty. I would like to think some small percentage would be exceptional in some way.
No doubt that Rev has balancing issues and to be fair … it is 2-3 years behind any other class in this game in terms of playtesting.
I think there is something to be said for the performance of the class in the hands of highly capable people though. You can’t make up for class deficiencies simply through skills and knowledge if they are all balance ones; that’s why I think we have some fraction of this due to difficulty. I think it’s an equal amount of both difficulty and unbalance. Highly skilled players can overcome difficulty.
I really don’t have strong and supported arguments, so this is pretty much my bias and intuition. Still, I feel there is enough “bias evidence” to have this concern.
I can’t but not notice how many people which were the ones who created GW2 (and even Guild Wars) have left it for other company and other game. That is a big alarm for me. For me it says those people lost the passion for Guild Wars 2, they lost vision for it, or maybe they don’t even enjoy the way GW2 changed and is changing.
So … how does that mean that ANet is abandoning the game? I don’t get it. Employees that leave Anet are not Anet employees. They get new people, new ideas … people that see from outside to understand things that do and don’t work.
Rev hasn’t been good at 1v1s for a long time
You clearly haven’t seen the ESL 1v1 tournaments. There was 1 player that successfully beat every other class put against it with a rev, including very good mesmers, DH and warriors. This was about 2 weeks and 1 week ago, so after the nerfs as well. And others playing rev haven’t been doing badly either. Tbh, the bad rep rev has been getting lately isn’t entirely deserved.
>1 player
>Lul Rev is fine>1 player
>Lul Rev is badWorks both ways. Frankly, it’s nice there are some classes in this game with a high threshold for performance. Rev isn’t a bad class, you just need to be much better with it than many other classes. I don’t doubt that’s desirable though perhaps not intended by Anet. Variety isn’t something that should be avoided.
What?
You just don’t get it, there is no point in playing a harder class but to feel a special snowflake, cause me original anti-meta special boy!. You could be playing any other easier class and still even outperform Rev.
No, you don’t get it … some people actually like to be challenged in the game, so yes, there are people just like you describe here where Rev would appeal to them. Just because you aren’t one of those people doesn’t mean variety in difficulty shouldn’t exist.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
^^ What makes you think that? We’ve heard nothing and they started dropping hits about HoT over 6 months before it was released IIRC. SO like, you betting on Dec 2017?
Rev hasn’t been good at 1v1s for a long time
You clearly haven’t seen the ESL 1v1 tournaments. There was 1 player that successfully beat every other class put against it with a rev, including very good mesmers, DH and warriors. This was about 2 weeks and 1 week ago, so after the nerfs as well. And others playing rev haven’t been doing badly either. Tbh, the bad rep rev has been getting lately isn’t entirely deserved.
>1 player
>Lul Rev is fine
>1 player
>Lul Rev is bad
Works both ways. Frankly, it’s nice there are some classes in this game with a high threshold for performance. Rev isn’t a bad class, you just need to be much better with it than many other classes. I don’t doubt that’s desirable though perhaps not intended by Anet. Variety isn’t something that should be avoided.
Right, so instead of providing feedback to the company that makes the game we pay for and consume, instead of giving them criticism and suggestions about the class we spend a majority of our time on, we should just shut up and take it.
Oke doke
http://icrontic.com/uploads/features/tech/2011/09/nothing_to_see_here.jpg
No, you should provide feedback, but people shuld be doing it properly. The forums are for feedback, not protest. I think it’s really important for people to understand what kinds of real changes Anet is going to be willing to make and you can do that by observing the history and the evolution of the game. Balancing to what players perceive as meta is NOT one of those things Anet does. They can’t.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Whatever you want to call it, I still don’t see the fixes that you claim this non-meta status deserves if Anet balances according to performance like you say they do. Tell me, how long has Engi not been meta?
since the slick shoes nerf a while after raid release.
So basically … IF Anet is balancing to achieve class performance, they have sucked at doing so since raid release? That’s a powerful kind of fail at balance for performance if you ask me … if that’s the truth of course. Anyone still think Anet is targeting meta and balancing for performance? I don’t.
Being ‘most balanced’ compared to other MMOs does not mean ‘balanced’ in the game itself. What I think if GW2 is good or bad is not relevant. I see that Anet has not achieved balance by relative class performance, despite deliberate balancing efforts. That leads me to not jump to conclusions about why Anet makes changes and how that’s related to the meta … or not.
Could you please explain with more detail what makes you think introducing a new leather farm spot is the better solution? (Honest question)
I don’t think if asking if it’s ‘better’ is as relevant as asking what the primary motivation was to introduce a leather farming instance/zone as opposed to other solutions. We can’t assume it was implemented because it was the best solution.
That’s nice and all, but that doesn’t answer my question…. you say anet is balancing for performance and engi is terrible
This is you strawmanning again. I never said “engi is terrible.” I said that engineer is not a participant of the meta-game.
Whatever you want to call it, I still don’t see the fixes that you claim this non-meta status deserves if Anet balances according to performance like you say they do. Tell me, how long has Engi not been meta?
Second, balancing an incredibly complex game like Guild Wars 2 is an awful lot like the phenomenon referred to as “spaghetti code.” With three different game modes, balancing Guild Wars 2 without skill splitting will result in completely unintentional buffs and nerfs to professions, and will introduce some bugs as well.
Yup, so what I said stands. There are two possibilities … Anet doesn’t balance like you think, or they can’t do it… I don’t really care why because it’s not relevant. I mean, you’re just acknowledging what I’ve already said a few times … WITH a reason. If this is the most balanced meta this game has ever had after all the balancing patches we have seen … and we still don’t have most classes relevant to the meta that you claim is a relevant measure of balance … should make you wonder about what you think is true or not. You know you might be right thought. Maybe in 10 years, Anet might just achieve balancing class performance at the pace they are currently ‘achieving’ things. I can’t wait … LITERALLY.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
That’s nice and all, but that doesn’t answer my question…. you say anet is balancing for performance and engi is terrible … I mean, those things can’t be true in the same universe. I mean, forget engi altogether … there are 8 more classes you can look at and ask yourself the same question. Even when they do a balancing patch … are you going to sit there and tell me that all the sudden, all classes fixed and balanced? They should be according to you … I’ve yet to see that happen … and we have had numerous balancing patches in the history of this game. So again … we’ve HAD balancing patches … yet I’m still seeing things not balanced according to performance. Gee, how does that happen?
Even if you want to think it’s some kind of lack of separation between PVE/PVP … That doesn’t really matter does it? Choose a class that is ‘bad’ in PVE … is it true they are awesome at PVP? I don’t think so. You would think that Anet … if they are balancing according to performance like you say … would choose at least one of those to target for balancing … well I guess not ay?
So, ultimately, Nothing we say really matters … we can both look at the game and make the same observations. I just don’t know how you come to the conclusions you have if you are seeing the same things I’m talking about here.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Let me ask you a very simple question:
If Anet balances according to performance AND Engi’s are as bad off as you want us to believe, for whatever reason ….
… where are the fixes that should result from the product of both of those things being true?
Think about that for even just a second … tell me how you reconcile the fact that Engi hasn’t gotten enough balancing fixes to make it balanced for performance relative to other classes, even though you insist those two things are true. Something doesn’t make sense with what you are telling me.
I don’t need to debate with anyone to tell me that ONE of those things can’t be true. I simply look at how the game works to make that conclusion.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
The only thing highlighting the meta does is show it’s not optimal, because that’s what the meta is about, optimized solutions for specific content. That has nothing to do with how good the class is. If you want to highlight how underpowered it is, forget about talking about meta.
Imo, put mace #2 on auto-attack is not a solution. Mallyx and condi Rev in generale need a global revamp:
No it’s not, and I didn’t try to give the indication it was … it’s just how I play the build because frankly, Mace 2 is a better auto attack than Mace 1 is. That’s pretty much how badly conceived the condi Rev is.
It seems to me there is a little bit too much emphasis on Torment as a main condition, which the Rev can’t really take advantage of since it’s on a melee weapon. I think a solution is to swap torment on Mace 1 for some bleed. How many stacks is open to debate. Perhaps Anet wouldn’t consider that to avoid it because it plays too much like Necro Scepter.
As “unviable” as we claim Condi Rev to be, it is still a lot of fun, and EXTREMELY COOL looking. This IS Fashion Wars 2 right?
Yes, this is still somehow true for me … as crappy as torment is, I somehow enjoy the challenge of making this work at it’s highest capability.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Way to ignore everything he posted, uh.
By the way, it’s not like they’re even bothering to follow their own designs. Turrets are still described even now as “devices that help defend and control an area”. Yeah, good luck with that, they either die in a couple seconds (in pvp/wvw) or are so bad in doing so that they’re better used as disposable devices.
And despite what you may say about devs being unconcerned by balance, they got nerfed due to that…as something that defends and controls an area ended up being too perfect for a mode that’s all about defending and controlling some areas.
But it’s not like they ever bothered changing them to make them balanced and still follow their design. They just forgot about them and gone on.
It’s not hard. He wants to delve in the weeds and argue the minutia of why changes are made. Even if some details are debatable, that doesn’t make me wrong. I don’t need to get down there to know that being non-meta doesn’t make a class a welfare case for dev changes or that the class even performs poorly, which is the point in the first place. I don’t build strawmans around people playing with fire.
The fact is simple, Anet doesn’t make changes to chase meta … or if they do, they are so bad at it that you wouldn’t even know that’s what they are aiming to do (as you’re point about turrets actually illustrates really well). Therefore, using meta as a reason to request class changes is ridiculous, for that reason, as well as many others that everyone wants to ignore.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
If I picked Engineer based on concept/playstyle, then I would think I would want to be welcomed playing that profession wherever I go, and, as an empathetic human being, not feel as if I am in some way hindering the party/raid/team’s performance because I insist on playing a profession that I like even though I could bring something that would work noticeably better. .
Yeah, that sounds good. I don’t disagree. I would think the same thing. Our problem is that what we think is irrelevant. That’s not how many players view the game, so people like us that think this way either conform or have to work around that issue.
This is part of the reason that I believe that Anet, for the majority of the instances, does not balance by performance relative to other classes.
Erm, what…?
Amazing right? To think that Anet makes changes around things that aren’t only about relative class balance. I’m going to let you think about it a bit because there are many changes that have nothing to do with class balance. Anet doesn’t chase the meta in case you haven’t noticed … and in the case they do, they are absolutely terrible at it. Either way, I’m not far off here. Like I said … I won’t be the one complaining about class balance in 4 years. Meta changes, so does class performance with it.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Is there a way to play it in PvE?
Everything works in pve. This games AI is not that complex.
Working doesn’t mean good … and I think that’s the meaning of the question.
Frankly, Condi Rev in solo PVE is not too inspiring, the nature of torment ensures that. The only real bonus is the frequency you can apply conditions and the resistance spam you can achieve. I think it would be better to put Mace #2 on auto attack … it’s almost spammable and much better damage.
I found with teams, it’s a little better if you aren’t aggroed by the mob you fight. Doubling your spammable torment damage and sticking to your moving target works, but it’s more conditional than I would prefer.
Now, if we just had torment on hammer in some way.
Or just make mace 2 an auto in a circle and make current aa ranged one for 2 like spear. Burning at melee range, torment at long range. Mace improved by 459849964396839683% and problem with long range wep solved a bit as well.
Yup, that’s sort of what I think to. As it is, I’ve already set Mace 2 as my auto attack.
Right … so finding a class that works for you that you like to play is completely stupid …
No, it’s not completely stupid to find a class that works for you and to find one that you like to play. What’s completely stupid is you failing to figure out I went through that process in 2012.
I don’t get why that’s not an ongoing process for you if you’re concern is performance. See, the concept of the engi hasn’t changed, so if you choose the class based on concept, but complain about performance, you’re just being unreasonable because those two things are not equivalent; one evolves despite the persistence of the other. Choose properly for the right reasons and you don’t encounter your situation. Thinking you can and should always have the concept you like with the performance you want is not realistic. This is part of the reason that I believe that Anet, for the majority of the instances, does not balance by performance relative to other classes. I believe their main goal is to maintain the class flavour. This thinking is not a stretch of the imagination.
If you choose based on performance, then you should be prepared to use highly performing classes as the game evolves. If you choose based on concept, then as long as Anet doesn’t change the class concept, you shouldn’t have problems with game evolution. Those two things are very different … which one did you use to choose engi?
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Don’t see a problem here. You don’t always get what you want. That’s life.
Is there a way to play it in PvE?
Everything works in pve. This games AI is not that complex.
Working doesn’t mean good … and I think that’s the meaning of the question.
Frankly, Condi Rev in solo PVE is not too inspiring, the nature of torment ensures that. The only real bonus is the frequency you can apply conditions and the resistance spam you can achieve. I think it would be better to put Mace #2 on auto attack … it’s almost spammable and much better damage.
I found with teams, it’s a little better if you aren’t aggroed by the mob you fight. Doubling your spammable torment damage and sticking to your moving target works, but it’s more conditional than I would prefer.
Now, if we just had torment on hammer in some way.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I think that’s my problem with this suggestion … what is the point of pushing less capable players towards the easier to play builds? In otherwords, are less capable players not already playing builds that are easy to play for them, so it’s necessary to make the PVP game harder for them to corral them into the ‘only easy’ builds?
On the flip side … there must be challenging builds … maybe the answer isn’t to corral scrubs into easier builds by making things harder … maybe the answer is to corral pro players into harder builds by making more things easier?
I guess my point is … I don’t see what this accomplishes or I don’t see how whatever is being suggested isn’t just a zero-sum impact on the game. Probably all irrelevant anyways … Anet doesn’t balance to increase or decrease difficulty of play; we have different classes to accomplish that already.
My suggestion to play other classes was dismissed pretty hard … but be honest and tell me that’s not why those other classes exist with the variations in playstyles they have … it’s absolutely the answer to this problem.
Your suggestion was dismissed because it’s frankly a stupid suggestion.
Right … so finding a class that works for you that you like to play is completely stupid …
but asking Anet to revisit the class concept for the class you (and they) have invested so much time into so you will like it again … that’s completely logical and intelligent.
Ok well, at least I know which one of us won’t be back here in 4 years complaining about the same issues and playing classes they don’t like. Anet isn’t going to tell you any different either. They give you choice to exercise for a reason. If you decide the most effective option for you to solve this problem is one you aren’t going to exercise, there isn’t much more to say. Stay stubborn and angry I guess.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
That I will give you, there is a roadblock to simply making a new class and it boils down to time and/or money … but isn’t that part of a game in the first place … doing different things to play it?
I get people aren’t prepared to simply try a different class, but it’s going to be a really hard sell to get a dev team limited in resources to make class changes because it’s unliked when the ‘other class’ solution is already provided. I am certain of one thing … even Anet isn’t going to change the concept of the class. That’s here to stay. If someone thinks it’s too busy or boring or whatever … that’s due to a fixed class concept, not a balance issue. That’s where elite specs come in …
Imagine how awesome PVP would be in this game if you needed a high skill level to do it!
Oh wait, it would suck because 99% us wouldn’t have a chance. /thread
I speculate there is no customization because IMO, it’s a luxury, and I doubt Anet has the resources right now to implement luxury features. It’s certainly not terrible in its present state though.
No, since she has never exhibited this type of behaviour in the past as far as I can recall.
Hold on …. if people pulled the boss out of it’s home position to make it easier to kill and now they can’t, it sounds to me like Anet simply fixed an unintended way to complete content. That’s not a bug, that’s an exploit fix.
So basically, OP wants to exploit dungeon runs and is angry he can’t do it here anymore? GG
What I read here (and is completely fair mind you) is that those things make Eng meh to you. Probably others as well. No debate. It’s what you feel, it’s what other feel but it’s not what everyone feels.
So basically, how is it fair to ask Anet to look into a ‘problem’ based on what a fraction of players feel? It’s a wash if you ask me. It’s such a wide variation that you can throw that dart anywhere one the board and basically accomplish nothing; you’re just at a different spot. That’s why I think that the only valid evaluation of class health has almost nothing to do with it’s performance.
Let me put some perspective here. Let’s say for argument sake there was one class that unanimously, players thought was awesome for everything. Is that a healthy for the class? Is that healthy for other classes? I don’t think you can simply attribute health to what people think is or isn’t, or even look at what that means for an individual class.
My suggestion to play other classes was dismissed pretty hard … but be honest and tell me that’s not why those other classes exist with the variations in playstyles they have … it’s absolutely the answer to this problem. Just look at how easy Anet enables leveling and allows people to swap endgame gear and even changes stats on that gear. That’s screaming to me as THE solution to not being happy with a class. It’s not chasing the meta or doing some complicated class balance analysis every time meta changes. This isn’t MMO University; academics are not the answer here. Anet needs to turn profit and I’m certain this solution is inline with recognizing that GW2 is first and foremost, a business with shareholders.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
It’s a hard question to be honest; one that I don’t have an answer for. I can’t see how one would use open world content to kitten a class for health to begin with because of two things:
1. I’m not sure there is any criteria that you could establish for that to find an appropriate open world measure. Simple criteria like “DPS” ignore other significant factors, so they don’t work (which explains why meta, to me, is a poor indicator of class health).
2. Even if there is a list of criteria and content that exists that we would agree to as appropriate, it still wouldn’t be sufficient to judge class health because performance is affected by the person playing the class as well.
So you can’t just ask what criteria and content establishes the baseline, you also have to consider the level of player competence to do that. I just can’t see how any objective assessment can do that.
I think that because of the complexity of doing such a thing, we (and Anet) have to fall back on more primitive evaluations like … perhaps having a range of acceptable damage output for given fixed parameters. Or more empirical things, which we do see like when they tweak skills after PVP seasons and such. Anet even tells us as much, like SoI for Mesmers and recent Rev changes. Finally .. if the class skills are maintaining the flavour of the class; for example, Guardian Sword and Scepter getting symbols recently.
I honestly don’t get the mentality that there is something wrong with the class if people don’t want it in teams. Why would anyone conclude it’s a problem with the class? At one point we had an all-Ele meta for dungeons … does that mean all other 7 classes were no good? That was certainly not the case. So why is it the case here that Eng is not a good class because it’s not meta either? That’s just nonsense. IF this is even a problem, it’s not a class issue, it’s a game design issue, and not one that is easily addressed through throwing about class buffs/nerfs either.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I will quote the paragraph I’m referring to.
Engineer exacerbates my carpal tunnel in PvE and puts me to sleep in PvP/WvW. I legitimately zone out while playing scrapper in PvP. It wasn’t until I forced myself to run Marauder and Elixir S+X that I realized just how lazy a player I became in PvP because of how faceroll scrapper was before I quit.
So you can correct me but basically … too much buttons to press in PVE and is too easy to play in PVP/WvW … have I got the basic jist? Those aren’t the hallmarks of a class that has poor performance.
I think the inability to solo champs really doesn’t indicate that a class is incapable and a poorly performing class; that’s as much a function of the build as it is the player. I can say that I have only done that with a MM Necro build which I think only shows that Minion builds are broken IMO. I can’t say if there is an Engi build that doesn’t also solo champs; I’ve never explored that space.
What I am certain of is that the whole question of class balance and performance is way more complex than “it’s not meta”. As Phineas has already pointed out, in his experience, he was bored because he was so successful with the class. So … is that really a not-meta problem … or is Eng just one of those classes that really rewards highly capable players and leaves scrubs behind?
(edited by Obtena.7952)
No problem … I mean, it’s ridiculous to complain the class doesn’t play how you want it to. It’s the reason multiple classes exists; to be able to choose the style of play you want. If you choose poorly, that’s logically the solution to your problem. If you don’t like such a busy style of play, Anet provides classes that are less busy. That’s always going to be a challenge for game devs to provide enough variety in style and concept to satisfy most players. Even when they do that, they have a balancing nightmare. I’ve yet to see a game that has dozens of classes that are unique, but have a well-balanced performance over all of them. It gets exponentially harder to balance as more classes are added.
Frankly, I think you are being unreasonable. You want a specific style, with an exceptional ‘role’ that is relevant to the meta always. GL with that.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
No, I don’t solo HP champs with this one.
And I honestly believe that you argue and “oppose” buff threads and threads like this just for the sake of arguing (aka you don’t see an issue with <insert skill/weapon/profession>, so you think that Anet won’t also see it thus it’s perfectly fine), seeing as you sound like a broken record and everything you say boils down to “everything’s fine. I disagree because I think that anet think” Be it here or in every profession forum you decide to post. You don’t care about how it was argued, but just don’t like the general idea.
If that’s what you read from my posts, I’m just going to urge you to look closer. I mean, you can pretend that what Anet wants to do is irrelevant … I’m not that naive. I doubt Anet made Engi a ‘piano’ class … by accident, but if people want to convince themselves that it’s a mistakey so they can feel like there is hope Anet scraps the concept and reworks it completely, I guess that’s what they will do. If you want improvements to the class, screaming ‘not-meta’ and sitting back is not going to garner the correct attention.
No, I don’t think that idea going anywhere; if anything, it’s just reinforced by the gyro concept on scrapper. You need to be that kind of push-button gamer to get the most from engi and if you are, you will find that the class is not as deficient as this thread would make us believe.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
is that so
please post your robust and fun build
That is so:
And it’s not too much to ask for that we actually bring something valuable to a raid group that doesn’t require playing the piano on near-stationary targets.
Here is what I honestly believe … that busy playstyle that you dislike … is completely intended by Anet. You are literally asking Anet to completely rethink what the Eng delivers to players as a unique class. That is really unlikely to happen. You chose the wrong class.
What you are asking for needs to be better thought out is what my issue is with this thread. Complaining that Eng isn’t meta … to group of devs that doesn’t really acknowledge meta is a measure of class success is going to get you ‘fixes’ for things that aren’t aligned to what you think is a problem. It happens.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I don’t think that’s an honest opinion about what Eng can do. That’s just a matter of opinion, not a objective measure. But I guess that’s the easy thing to do isn’kitten
It my opinion that Eng does many of it’s goods things at one time. In, fact, I’ve made a very robust and fun build taking advantage of this fact. It’s not exceptional at any one particular thing but I’m never stuck not having the tools I need for many situations.
If it makes sense to you to invest time into a class that will perform exceptionally in a specific role, you can do that choosing the right class with the specific role you want to excel at. Therefore, I don’t see how that relates to the issue at hand. Not everyone chooses a class because it performs exceptionally at any specific role and I don’t see why that is a necessary requirement for a class to begin with. It’s not needed to have a well balanced class.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
This is funny considering elite specs have worked for the last 1.5 years.
So let’s start … I didn’t say their wasn’t bugs, so don’t start making up things I ’m thinking to try to make your point.
The content isn’t unplayable if you only encountered this issue ONCE in your whole time doing dungeons. That’s a ridiculous claim. If it happened all the time, you might have a point and even then, you aren’t getting your money back … but Anet would appreciate if you make a proper bug report so they can fix it if it’s so ‘unplayable’.
So … you did that much at least? You certainly took the time to complain about this one time you encountered it.
I really don’t get your thread .. you want Anet to form a whole dungeon team just to wipe out rarely encountered bugs in legacy content … I don’t think that’s a realistic suggestion.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
So you experienced this obviously infrequent bug in a long career doing dungeons, you think this makes the game totally broken … and you want your money back? Is this real?
Yup it does, but that in itself is even less of a reason for Anet to do anything to adjust Engi because in a team, any specific skill or buffs are dispersed over many people and success is dependent on the whole team, not just one individual. Therefore, it’s even less reasonable for any particular class to be proclaimed in need just because it can’t do any particular thing exceptionally well in a team. I would in fact argue that classes that bring lots of many things are way more important in a team than including a class for any singular thing. There is more than one way to complete team content so solutions that involve the “exceptional at one thing” classes are not particularly compelling agents for change.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
What Obtena failed to realize then and continues to is that while the playstyle of an engineer is different from every other profession, what we actually bring to the table is completely replaceable.
Other classes deal more damage than us.
Other classes dish out more healing than us.
Other classes are better duelists than us.
There is no failure here because ‘replaceable elements’ are actually intended in this game. It’s quite irrelevant if any or all those cherry-picked elements are done better by a different class because theoretically, it’s possible that the scenario where all those elements are done better by different classes still results in this class being OPed. Furthermore, how strong or weak other classes are in any particular element has no bearing on the overall performance of another class, ever. Those arguments you present make are illogical.
Non-thriving state isn’t going to be a reason to fix anything. In fact, any self-assessed level of performance is pretty meaningless/insignificant to justify fixes for two reasons; it’s biased and performance isn’t the only thing that is measured by those that are responsible for managing the development.
Anyone that comes into a game that doesn’t understand that different classes will perform at different levels relative to each other and what that means in terms of balance and rank isn’t being realistic when they are talking about fixing class balance. This is no exception.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
A year later, and this is still an issue. I wanted to change the stats of my Ascended armor to ‘Minstrle’ but cannot because of the rediculous cost involved!
When is something going to be done about this?
You’ve already answered your question … it’s been over a year. What makes you think this is even on their list of things to fix considering they didn’t make adjustments for any other mats either?
Obtena.7952Hey, people will say any kind of ridiculous thing if they think it gets Anet’s attention. Don’t want 1G MC’s? Call it communism … hope you get some McCarthy-istic justice going on.
Well, I never complained about the price of MC. In fact, the price is not important as long it is a result of a free market. I considered an issue the way the MC are handled to the players. Like a charity / subvention / social aid. An no other sources allowed.
Read carefully, please. I never contested the price of the MC but the strictly controlled way the MC enters the game.Just a curiosity: In your past posts, you acted and voiced as a true defender of capitalism / democracy. How it comes that now you have no problems with communism?
I’m not sure if you are responding to me or not. I’m all for whatever gives me the ability to make money from impatient players. I don’t care what it’s called or if people want to give it some political slant. Like somehow that’s going to impact Anet’s thinking on this? That’s funny to me.
So people are now complaining that prices going up due to supply and demand interactions, in a situation where the governing body has declared a preference for allowing free market (ish) forces to run their course, is comparable to communism…?
Hey, people will say any kind of ridiculous thing if they think it gets Anet’s attention. Don’t want 1G MC’s? Call it communism … hope you get some McCarthy-istic justice going on.
No. Go Revenant. Engineer is not a bad class but it’s not particularly interesting either (long term).
Barring the fact that the OP doesn’t really tell us what part of the game he wants to play, your advice is that revenant is more interesting to play than Engi? What is your perspective here? I find that of all the classes, Revenant is way to restrictive in how you can choose skills or the number of skills available to be remotely interesting.
What are you actually asking? I understand you don’t find the Revenant to be interesting and that’s fine. But what do you want from me about it?
I guess I’m interested in how you find Rev more interesting than Eng. I would have thought the sheer volume of choices you can make on Eng would give quite a few interesting things to play around with. On Rev, you have much fewer options.
No. Go Revenant. Engineer is not a bad class but it’s not particularly interesting either (long term).
Barring the fact that the OP doesn’t really tell us what part of the game he wants to play, your advice is that revenant is more interesting to play than Engi? What is your perspective here? I find that of all the classes, Revenant is way to restrictive in how you can choose skills or the number of skills available to be remotely interesting.
Before you ask when, ask yourself why they would do so.
I guess that’s because I’m the only one here that bothers to point it out … or is smart enough to understand what that even means. You see, it’s easier for people to ignore the truth of what I’m saying there because if they accept it, they realize how meaningless it is to justify fixes on the only thing that they think matters. /shrug
I mean, if the question here is will you main engi if something doesn’t change soon, that’s no much different than if you don’t change my class, I’m not happy and please fix it. I don’t see the difference.
(edited by Obtena.7952)