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No balance to any class will change the game breaking mechanic of quickness and might. You can do whatever you want, but unless you simply take away everyone’s ability to maintain 25 stacks of might (all alone, 1 person in 10 can do this by him or herself!) and 100% quickness uptime (2 person in 8 is all it takes, I mean yeah what?!) then some classes will always be absolutely necessary and others will always be absolutely unnecessary. Because you now have a situation where that swinging hammer guardian actually doesn’t have to give up on speed, while that super fast hitting Shiro Rev is just as normal paced as everyone else with 100% quickness uptime. And let us not even dwell on the topic of classes that have no ways at all of competitively being either power or condi if they chose so, like necro.
honestly id like to know 1 thing a warrior can do without might generation. you want to kick us out of the meta too?
That’s how people talk that don’t understand what balance would actually mean. It means that meta doesn’t exist under the perfect balance situation. Ideally, every class could provide some significant but not maximum number of might stacks, meaning that you don’t seek out any particular class for a skill or effect.
So to respond directly … if you truly want a more balanced situation in the game, then yes, that might mean ‘the only’ thing your warrior can do should be nerfed and that other professions may get some more abilities to provide might. Personally, I think it’s as stupid for a class to deliver 25 stacks of might consistently as it is to deliver extreme boon duration or stacks of random boons over lots of players.
Just like my first post in this thread … I’m just stupified how much people complain about raid diversity, then on the other hand, get all defensive when people suggest that changing tools on classes that would improve diversity. People really don’t have a clue what they want.
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Well here is the problem … whatever discussion you’re having with me … it’s clear you aren’t following what I’m saying either because it’s only a page or two back that you were moaning about these minor changes forcing people to play something they don’t want and making sensational comments about how Anet is ruining the game by some arbitrary definition that is completely dependent on player misconceptions.
Neither of these things makes sense, simply by looking at how people are currently playing the game. No one is forced to do something they don’t want and if there is ruinious effects, it’s due to how players think and what they believe is necessary to win, not how Anet designs the game. If you change your thinking and play how you want, you can succeed at raids. It happens.
Frankly, I don’t see a problem with this ‘mirror comp’ idea … people have adjusted to the changes, found new solutions to solve the ‘raids’ challenge … that is exactly in line with what I’m talking about. If anything, that just proves my point that the game isn’t ruined and the only barrier to success is players own preconceived notions of what’s ‘needed’. Thank you.
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I know for a fact you are wrong, because if the need for chronos or whatever was absolutely dependent on Anet’s poor game design, it would affect all raid groups in the same way because it would be intrinsic in the design and unable to be affected by players abilities. Obviously that completely ridiculous and false because it doesn’t affect all raid groups in the same way … in fact some raids groups aren’t affected at all; they don’t need whatever predetermined skills or classes you think are necessary. You’re argument is reduced to absurdity.
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Because just like every other discussion you’ve had here, you don’t recognize this is a business and that it’s not worth their time to appeal to some insignificant amount of content or appeal to every player.
That would be my point about raids in general, thank you.
Besides … you want content that allows you to do what you said you can do for dungeons/fractals … Gee, sounds like you already have it. It’s called dungeons and fractals.
We’ve been over this, there are no Forsaken Thicket Fractals and none of them advance the path to Envoy armor. Dungeons/Fractals are entirely irrelevant to this discussion.
The difference is that your points about raids in general is irrelevant because raids exist as they are for a specific reason … whatever you are thinking of doesn’t. It’s a double standard? For sure, but it’s reality.
Dungeons and Fractals aren’t irrelevant; they are exactly the content you claim to be after, except you’re not telling us what you are really after here, which is just an easy path to raid loot in a Dungeon/Fractal-like setting and access level. That’s simply ridiculous because fundamentally (I seem to have to explain lots of these fundamentals to you), there is a correlation between difficulty and loot value. You can invent all kinds of things you can imagine could be done, but Anet isn’t going to stupidly cheapen their difficult content just to appease the likes of players that raids don’t work for so they can get equivalent loot. That’s just a clueless stance to have.
I know it’s not a realistic expectation for the current content, which is why I want more content options available that would make it a realistic expectation. It’s a realistic expectation for 99% of the content in the game, it’s the FUNDAMENTAL element of what makes this game better than any other on the market, so why not also this 1%?
Because just like every other discussion you’ve had here, you don’t recognize this is a business and that it’s not worth their time to appeal to some insignificant amount of content or appeal to every player. That’s not their goal and as a business, it’s unrealistic to think like that. As normal, if you aren’t going to view this as a business that appeals to a segment of the market, then it’s no wonder your views on the game make little sense.
Besides … you want content that allows you to do what you said you can do for dungeons/fractals … Gee, sounds like you already have it. It’s called dungeons and fractals. let’s not beat around the bush, you could care less about what the content is; you simply want easy access to the rewards.
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Yes. I want the odds of being able to log in, check LFG, grab a pug, hop into a raid, and complete at least one boss within an hour, to be just as good as my odds were of clearing a dungeon path within 30-60 minutes during the peak of dungeon running. I want it to be a casual, convenient, and fun experience, not a series of endless frustration because someone missed a tell.
Except that’s not a realistic expectation. It goes with the territory of what ‘being hard’ entails. So I guess you are SOL … or you can change your attitude and put some effort into suffering those frustrations, like everyone else does, and be a winner that completes raids.
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That doesn’t change anything I said … GW2 isn’t ‘ruined’ in the sense you have to play specific builds to succeed in instanced content. The problem with your statements is that they don’t align with the reality of playing this game. Maybe YOU feel you need to team with 2 chrono’s to succeed in raids, but we already have examples of people succeeding without them.
So really, when you claim the game is ruined because people need to sit around for a long time to find specific builds/classes to win raids, that sounds more like people are substituting their time for being unskilled. Seems to me that’s exactly how challenging content should work. I don’t see a logicial argument that says it should be easy for unskilled players to succeed at the same rate … or at all … when compared to skilled players.
So please, recognize that Anet does want this to be their highest skilled content in the game and that when people QQ they need Chronos to be a crutch for them, that it’s the fact those people are unskilled ruining the game for them, not Anet’s game design.
If skill requirement for running double chronos is lower than for not running them, then it’s also part of “ruined” definition.
There is absolutely no reason to blame players for remaining unskilled. They are playing this game for fun, and are not getting paid for it. Once again, players are picky because of Anet’s game design. And once again, players are expected to optimize, you can’t blame them for that. On the other hand Anet could do more to improve the game balance.
Unskilled players playing “right” classes are allowed to have fun beating raids while staying unskilled, but unskilled players playing “wrong” classes aren’t. And getting skill with wrong class is hard too, because, once again, you’ll have troubles finding even a training raid. As you can see, the difference here is caused by class balance (credited to Anet), not by player skill difference. Because players of different classes should be allowed to remain unskilled equally.
You see, the other thing is that diversity means there are always builds that are so bad that people won’t take them. It’s not a requirement that Anet ensure all builds are good. That’s silly. That’s also ignoring the fact that there is a team dynamic. Believe it or not, some people don’t mind what builds you use, or what classes they have in the team, or what gear you wear, because they know its not as important as knowing what to do and how to play your build.
At this point in this thread no one is even asking about making all builds good (even though it would be appreciated). Currently we want different professions be equally desirable and equally droppable.
Again, it goes right back to how skilled the team is are and if they need to make up for a lack of skill with specific tools and professions. That ‘need’ to make up for lack of skill does not define what classes are viable and are not. It’s simply defines the skill threshold necessary to play those classes and succeed.
No. One wrong class in raid increases skill threshold for all 10 players, not just wrong class player. Because losing 10k DPS to class imbalance means that each person will have to improve their skill to average 1k extra DPS per person. One can’t compensate their own bad class with their own good skill.
I think the part I bolded is where we fundamentally disagree. My view is that the game is too complex for Anet to ‘cater’ to any part of it to ensure class equality. I do believe that it’s not worth their effort to ensure that for a given level of player skill, all classes should perform within a range of efficiency for a subset of a particular game element, especially without considering the impact that would have to the other two.
You realize that on DPS benchmarks the difference between the top pure DPS class and the botton DPS class is almost 2 times, right? And efficiency of buff classes is above the top pure DPS class. We are simply too far away from equality. We are at two-fold or greater difference in efficiency between classes. Players just solve the equation and feel the value of meta.
Jagged Horrors were a good example of how to add necro DPS to raids without adding it anywhere else and do it without a skill split.
I won’t argue with your wall of text. You don’t recognize the fact that if a group can’t raid without unnecessary elements like chronos or what have you, that’s not Anet’s failure in game design; it’s simple something that veteran gamers recognize as ‘lack of skill’. If remaining unskilled as a player is not the players’ fault, then I will just chalk that up to hubris.
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You can join a guild
Use LFG to join a Group
Use LFG to create a Group
Use your FL to pull together 10 people who are likemindedAnd again, those options might resolve any problems you may have in forming a successful raid party, but they are insufficient for others. You experiences with the raid systems in no way negate theirs. You’re free to say “the system works for me.” You have no right to say “the system works for you.”
You don’t want to join a guild to raid. You don’t want to make your own teams to raid. Sounds to me like you aren’t willing to do quite a bit and somehow, that’s everyone else’s problem. I mean … what do you think you would be willing to do to join a successful raid if you don’t want to do those things? Do you seriously expect just to log in, join a queue and run a successful raid? I mean, a serious question … how unreasonable do you think you are being right now?
Frankly, accessibility to the raid isn’t the problem. It’s acceptance to raid groups you’re looking for … and with how little you seem willing to do to gain it, you can’t realistically expect people to go out of their way to accommodate you given the intended difficulty of the content, including Anet.
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People complete raids all the time without meta builds. Me posting a build doesn’t change that fact, nor does it prove people promoting meta builds are good or bad people; seems it’s just something you want to start an argument about … so /shrug.
I’m not debating why groups use meta builds, I’m not debating if meta are best builds for the content. I’m simply saying they aren’t necessary and just like dungeons, no reason to promote them as such. It’s not a hard concept. They certainly aren’t a reason to claim raid diversity is ruined because Anet upset the meta a little with changing a few unintended skill effects.
The relevance is that a poster claimed that Anet is imposing metas on people in raids and these changes make it even harder for him build a team because he claims he needs 2 chronos. That’s not true. That imposition is from players … the ones that push meta on people or brainwashed to believe the necessity of such a thing. If that’s not you, then perhaps you should feel less aggrieved by what I’m saying.
Frankly, if a raid could be done with a non-meta comp, then all this QQing about how the changes affect raid diversity is nonsense. Again, not logical arguments, emotional ones.
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I’ve discussed no build here and have no reason to. No one should care what is meta; it’s not relevant because you don’t need it to succeed in completing content in this game; you never did.
You don’t need to play meta for any other reason other than appeasing your own and others insecurities about players skills. The game instanced content, including raids, is designed to be completed by more than just engineered teams of meta players. It’s why no one needs 2 chronos for raids. It’s why the new changes don’t kill raid team diversity. It’s why people of many different levels of skill can achieve raid success.
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Yes, but I think it’s pretty clear from past history what is being meant here. There are still a contingent of players that insist people should attain the skills to only play the meta build for whatever content it’s relevant to … even if they don’t have those skills. That’s exactly what was being referred to when that statement about rather having a bad player in a good build was being made … because how else do you measure a good build other than excluding any build that isn’t the meta? If you are the kind of player convinced that the meta is THE build to play, then it’s obvious to you that anything else isn’t as good, and therefore, bad.
What’s the other choice? How would someone of that mindset qualify non-meta builds as good or bad? It’s simply easier to say “If it’s not meta, it’s not good” and bully people.
This isn’t really off topic either … clearly we have people that are making similar ideas about what are ‘good’ and ‘bad’ builds for raids and throwing that about making claims about how raids are ruined and diversity is dead because the meta changes. People don’t like meta changes … it costs them big money to refit; the complaints aren’t motivated by a logical, critical thinking. It’s motivated by time, gold and personal attachment.
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The fractals, dungeons and raids can all be clared by any team comp with knowledge of the scenario and boss mechanics. Period.
Nope. Dungeons and fractals? Yeah, possibly, even likely, depending on the skill of the group. Raids? Nope. Not on all bosses anyway. There are some minimum requirements there that not all group comps would fulfill.
Is that an objectively bad thing? there is optimal, there is suboptimal-but-viable, there is reasonable and there is unreasonable. Is it too high a bar to ask people to run at least reasonable builds?
I don’t think so. I think the base line of have a healer, enough cc and meager dps needed to beat enrage isn’t a very constrciting paragdigm. That’s all it takes to qualify as reasonable. If that is too restricting for you I’d suggest that raids just aren’t for you the same way ESL pvp isn’t for me.
People run viable builds but nobody wants them because everyone and their mother just blindly follows elitists guides that most can’t even execute properly.
Makes sense to me. If you can’t run a good build properly why should I expect you’ll do any bether running a trash build? I’LL take my chances with bad player on good build vs bad player on bad build.
Other builds are not trash…..
Don’t bother arguing … left over relics from Dungeon meta days. The idea that players equipped ‘properly’ that don’t know how to play are more valuable than players knowing their class in and out that don’t play meta is just grasping at relevance.
In a game where skilled players can ‘short’ instanced PVE content so badly, thinking like this are a parody of themselves.
We’re talking about the latter group here, or at least that’s what I’ve gotten from this whole thread. Imo, Anet should balance the game in a way that each class is within range of each other in terms of efficiency. Currently, we have a bunch of classes that are so overly efficient so that you do not want to drop them (you can, however) and others that barely make sense to take for encounters, if at all. Classes should always have areas they excel at, thus rendering them more useful for specific content while having weaknesses which make them weaker at other types of content (within the same gametype, of course) but not to the point where you ask yourself “why do we even have this class when we could have another one which does basically the same + more and better?”
This is where our opinions differ though, so I doubt we’re gonna get to any kind of real “agreement”.
I think the part I bolded is where we fundamentally disagree. My view is that the game is too complex for Anet to ‘cater’ to any part of it to ensure class equality. I do believe that it’s not worth their effort to ensure that for a given level of player skill, all classes should perform within a range of efficiency for a subset of a particular game element, especially without considering the impact that would have to the other two.
That’s why I think the current compromise is reasonable. If not equal within a range, at least the content makes it equal within a certain level of skill. In otherwords, if your classes can’t be balanced over the whole game, the non-competitive PVE content is flexible to that inequality, within a certain level of player skill. In essence, I see people complaining about nerfed crutch skills as really asking for the content to be flexible for them at a lower level of player skill than it currently is … which really degrades the whole point of raids being challenging.
I believe one thing … if classes were able to be balanced in a reasonable range of equality, then raid success would have to be made MUCH more dependent on player skill … so in the end, I don’t think players understand the implications of wanting to maintain these unintended skill effects; they would be less likely to be accepted to good teams and less likely to be competent in raids.
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I think that’s arguable that there are some classes not viable … especially with the people that are skilled that don’t need specific classes to succeed anyways.
Again, it goes right back to how skilled the team is are and if they need to make up for a lack of skill with specific tools and professions. That ‘need’ to make up for lack of skill does not define what classes are viable and are not. It’s simply defines the skill threshold necessary to play those classes and succeed.
Everytime someone succeeds in a raid with a ‘not viable’ class, those arguments just get more and more nonsensical. Considering the margin that people are capable of completing raids, I would say the main culprit to failure isn’t a lack of specific classes or skills, it’s players sucking.
Again, just like in dungeons … we had people single manning dungeons, then groups turning around and insisting on meta builds and excluding classes because they ‘need’ certain things to succeed. Sure … because they sucked.
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You, I agree with you but Chrono isn’t a gutted build that has been made bad here, and neither is Rev or Druid because as you can see, they are still very desireable with the people that think they don’t have the skills to complete the raids without them.
You see, the other thing is that diversity means there are always builds that are so bad that people won’t take them. It’s not a requirement that Anet ensure all builds are good. That’s silly. That’s also ignoring the fact that there is a team dynamic. Believe it or not, some people don’t mind what builds you use, or what classes they have in the team, or what gear you wear, because they know its not as important as knowing what to do and how to play your build.
Again, you’re just illustrating the difference between how people that have skill think and how people that supplement skill with optimally performing builds/classes think.
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1. GW2 is the LEAST ‘ruined’ MMO on the market according to your definition, because instanced content has a very wide breadth of build variety where you can be successful
2. You can play the game ‘unruined’ by teaming with people that don’t care about optimizing their team compositions, knowing full well they can succeed without doing so.1. Most of instanced content is a joke in terms of difficulty. It wasn’t designed for full ascended people, so of course full ascended people have a very wide breadth. In any MMO as you outclass content, it becomes trivial. It’s like soloing low level instance in WOW with a melee Warlock or Mage. You could do it, but it’s nowhere near a possibility for relevant content.
2. Sorry, but this was a part of “ruined” definition. Requiring to find a needle in a haystack is what’s ruining the game. Be it spending half an hour looking for chrono, or trying to find a group with a bad class.
That doesn’t change anything I said … GW2 isn’t ‘ruined’ in the sense you have to play specific builds to succeed in instanced content. The problem with your statements is that they don’t align with the reality of playing this game. Maybe YOU feel you need to team with 2 chrono’s to succeed in raids, but we already have examples of people succeeding without them.
So really, when you claim the game is ruined because people need to sit around for a long time to find specific builds/classes to win raids, that sounds more like people are substituting their time for being unskilled. Seems to me that’s exactly how challenging content should work. I don’t see a logicial argument that says it should be easy for unskilled players to succeed at the same rate … or at all … when compared to skilled players.
So please, recognize that Anet does want this to be their highest skilled content in the game and that when people QQ they need Chronos to be a crutch for them, that it’s the fact those people are unskilled ruining the game for them, not Anet’s game design.
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I don’t get this thread … is there a suggestion here? Clash or not, it works and that’s all it really needs to do. We shouldn’t be looking for ultra realism here.
You know what I like about #5? You can use it when you are incapacitated. It’s a situational but effective Save your Behind skill.
You’re losing the point again. Adjusting your composition is improving your chances to succeed, but it’s neither requirement nor guarantee. And exactly that is called “ruined” by me. Elementalist is so high on damage against large hitbox that many common mistakes are very forgiving. You can come undergeared, undertraited, inexperienced (with class), and still bring more to the fight, than some of the classes on the lower end of DPS benchmarks.
Challenge raids aren’t something people will do on a regular basis. I’ve read the reports of spending hours to get them done. The meta philosophy is about players assessing their ability to kill the bosses. They can come with anything and won’t care if it gets the job done. But if not they are assessing the possible gain from further training and some composition adjustments. Composition adjustments can bring more than training for another hour.
So optimizing your raid team composition for high probabilities of success is ‘ruining’ for you? I have a few good news tidbits for you then
1. GW2 is the LEAST ‘ruined’ MMO on the market according to your definition, because instanced content has a very wide breadth of build variety where you can be successful
2. You can play the game ‘unruined’ by teaming with people that don’t care about optimizing their team compositions, knowing full well they can succeed without doing so.
Again, this is simply self-imposed player restrictions.
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I have to challenge some of those ideas. If you’re a hard core condi necro, how does one resolve the fact that Reaper skills don’t help you a whole lot with a Scepter/dagger build (arguably the most condi weapon setup) or the fact that even though reaper shroud has some cool condi, but you can’t spam those skills to be considered even close to the condi output a necro would be?
I mean, I can see where there could be a swapping between good damage on GS, then some kind of hybrid approach on shroud, but I’m not certain that kind of build justifies wearing Vipers gear to take advantage of the few conditions (relative to pure condi necro) that you get in shroud. I’m going to play around with such a thing before I condemn it and convince myself one way or the other that it has a place.
To be honest, I look at that build and ask myself how someone justifies a whole traitline dedicated to damages with chill effects when the build itself is so limited in its ability to cast chill.
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No, you see, that’s a player-imposed restriction, so if you don’t like the game being ‘ruined’ by restrictions, you can blame players for their exclusive approach to making Raid teams, not Anet.
No. If you have sub-optimal composition and boss doesn’t die, players will be asked to switch to something better.
I don’t think that’s a reasonable assumption for a number of reasons. Again, i’m just going to refer to the stupid situation we had with metapushers and dungeons, because it’s the same thing.
The association that success is linked so closely to the meta is just stupid. It was proven false in dungeons, we have already seen the same proof it’s nonsense for raids. You can keep stringing along that meta philosophy that you claim is a result of Anet’s design approach to team instanced encounters, but that’s a fallacy in this game. Everytime someone 3 mans a raid or doesn’t have Chronos and wins … the kind of thinking you are exhibiting gets more and more ridiculous. The NEED for specific conditions to win on classes/builds, etc… is an artificial construction by players, not imposed by Anet’s design on the game, but on their own insecurities and fears of losing.
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So if the price of MCs was 5G each, but remained the same all the time you would be happy?
5g a piece would be a terrible price for an object which is used in the hundreds per recipe.
Not really. There are other factors that need to be considered when assessing price, not just what YOU think is a bad price for the number needed in a recipe.
I think the main problem with FT is if you build a proper build focused on camping it, it’s VERY strong in a general sense. No, not the highest damage, but lots of other things to make up for that. I’m afraid any more buffs to the kit itself would be significantly exploited at some point. If it gets a buff, then dare i say, more damage would be the least significant way to do it.
I found that there is almost no ramp up on a condi Ranger, so I prefer it. I can get up to 20 bleed stacked on TRASH mobs in Orr, including some burns and other minor conditions.
As for Druid, I don’t know how that would affect a condition or power build. I didn’t see much there that appealed for either.
I’ve juggled this question … Frankly, it depends quite a bit on how deep into conditions you go.
Are you Scepter?
Are you using Condition damage traits?
Etc ….
because you can achieve 100% bleed duration without Vipers, though if you consider a wider range of condition application, you can drop some bleed duration ‘things’, get Vipers and have more duration on all conditions and still achieve 100% bleed duration.
It really just depends on what you are doing.
I don’t know what nerf you’re referring to either … AFAIK, there wasn’t any big changes to necro that affect their abilities for condition damage.
Theres currently 37800 MC for sale on the TP.
Doesnt sound like a shortage of coins to me.37800/150 = 252 people can craft a legendary weapon at one time if they don’t rely on the meager personal income. I dunno, how big is the player base of GW2 at the moment? and this is just for the legendary weapons. Then there’s guild halls, recipes, mystic weapons etcetc
I don’t see a problem with that … I don’t even get your The point is .. there are MC’s on the market. If there was a shortage, there would be zero.
When I’m talking about being restricted (as ruining the game) I mean having conceptual choices horrible balance-wise. Do you like Thief or Engineer for their class concepts? Sorry, no raids for you. Wait, let’s get those dark arts masters Necromancers out of raids as well. And no, you can’t compare undesirable classes (that have strong concepts behind them) and undesirable stat prefixes, runes, sigils etc (that are usually picked just for stats).
No, you see, that’s a player-imposed restriction, so if you don’t like the game being ‘ruined’ by restrictions, you can blame players for their exclusive approach to making Raid teams, not Anet.
The problem is that Anet “assumes” that all of the hoarded items will be dumped at a stabilizing price and that will fix the cost of things. That simply isn’t true.
No they don’t … the market will adjust to any situation it’s given. Anet knows that. There is no gamble here. Anet putting the market on autopilot implies that they don’t really care if people unhoard MC’s.
There is no caveat … MC’s will adjust to the price they should be based on supply and demand. It’s not the goal of a properly working market to ensure cheap supply to people that want stuff. The market is a balancing act and that view of the market ignores the other side; ensuring people that supply to the market get fair value for the mats they provide. That singular view is one of the player-invented market-behaviours that I’m referring to.
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I don’t see what the problem is here. It’s exactly as JS and Anet said … price will raise to the point where demand and supply are more inline. It’s not speculation that markets will adjust … it’s part of their very nature to do so.
QQing that Mystic coins are ‘expensive’ and claiming that it’s because there is something ‘wrong’ in general with Anet’s approach to let the markets work themselves out shows you don’t know what you are talking about. When the price is ‘right’, people will release their coins to ease the demand.
There are multiple ways the ANet can solve this “problem”, although the problem is different depending upon who you talk to.
ANet’s current approach is “hands off” which is a bit ambiguous — without knowledge of the “hands on” approach, we really don’t know what is different. Of course you can guess, but that’s not factual in any way.
I think what is safe to say is that is Anet is certain that the market behaves in a ‘textbook’ manner, then it’s completely reasonable to believe that it will behave exactly as they believe it should, based on what they know from a textbook. I think that’s completely reasonable approach.
The real failure here is with players that invent their own indicators of what ‘good behaviour’ in the market is, deception intended or not. Then complain that the market isn’t doing what it should be because of those nonsense indicators. This thread is a great example.
OP blames ‘market behaviour’ as the reason he can’t afford MC’s, because he WANTS MC’s. On the other hand, I’m going to encourage market to ‘behave badly’, because I have my own self interests as well. In the end, it’s irrelevant what players think the market should and shouldn’t be doing, because neither of those POV’s are how Anet measure ‘good market behaviour’.
Bottomline is this: Anet must feel that at this point, for whatever reason, they don’t need to babysit the market anymore, so they aren’t. It’s on autopilot. Prices should eventually and truly represent supply and demand. OP doesn’t like that, only because he want’s cheap MC’s, not because it won’t work.
That’s true, there are lots of excessive effects and Anet decides which ones are intended or not. Anet decided that stacking boon and duration wasn’t. so they made changes. Seems like a perfectly reasonable way to approach game changes to me, given that it’s their prerogative to do that. So what’s the problem here? … other than your excessively sensational interpretation that this ‘ruins’ the game?
We have more players that are forced to play not something they like. That’s a good enough definition of ruining the game.
Being restricted in how you want to play is not a good enough definition of ruining the game because you are restricted in many ways, right from the beginning of the game due to it’s mechanics and the concepts of the classes. Yet, the game was no more ruined from day one than it is now that some of the mechanics change. That relationship between restrictions on how you play and the ‘ruin’ of the game is illogical and nonsense. Mechanics and skill changes are the norm, not the exception and we have had many years of these kinds of changes, yet the game is not any more ruined than it has been.
I mean, at this point, if your just going to spout rhetoric and claim it’s ruinous to the game, I don’t think there is any reasonable approach to discussing things with you; I see no reason for Anet to give ear to such an illogical approach to assessing the changes.
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dual strike should stack like 5 might or idk give superspeed or something
Because getting 2 stacks of fury isn’t enough?
My main complaint is that Axe offhand seems like more of the same Axe mainhand … some damage, a few minor but helpful effects.
But the thing is that one handed sword as it is now, is neither falt dmg weapon nor condition weapon, but more like useless combination of both.. I could imagine 2 different types of swords… somth like rapier for cond. and sword for flat dmg. But that won’t happen right…
That’s just a lack of understanding on your part; sword does both flat damage and conditions, not neither. That’s not a mistake either … it’s by design because you can’t make a “JUST” condition damage warrior/berzerker without having a good portion of your overall damage being direct damage, whether you like it or not. Why do you think Runes of the Berzerker exist, buffing condi and direct damage similarly? Because devs thought it would ‘be cool’ to do it? No, because it’s how the class is designed to play in ‘condition damage’ mode.
So no, in a way you are right … you aren’t going to get a sword for direct damage and another version with condi … because that would result in a set of weapons that ignore a significant part of what those particular weapons have to offer based on how the class is designed.
Just look at the whole Arms traitline if you aren’t convinced that I’m right. That line SCREAMS give me a sword that applies bleeds. If you choose the right traits in that line and know how to balance your stats, then sword as it’s designed makes a whole lot of sense and has exceptional performance as an hybrid weapon it was designed to be.
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So sayeth the lord who speaketh, and sayeth the Slaver of Abaddon, who coruppted our marketh, and our customs, and our supplies.
Abaddon is alive and well, and he lives in the marketing department of ANet, proof in the attachement!
As you can see, the last few months the demand has been well over 400% of the supply.
Excuse me while I go prepare the people at Wall Street.
I don’t see what the problem is here. It’s exactly as JS and Anet said … price will raise to the point where demand and supply are more inline. It’s not speculation that markets will adjust … it’s part of their very nature to do so.
QQing that Mystic coins are ‘expensive’ and claiming that it’s because there is something ‘wrong’ in general with Anet’s approach to let the markets work themselves out shows you don’t know what you are talking about. When the price is ‘right’, people will release their coins to ease the demand.
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OK, but that doesn’t really mean that there is a problem with sword as it’s realized for warriors. It’s clear to me that most of the people QQing about sword haven’t attempted to play a condition zerker with it … and they are missing out. So their underlying experience to claim it’s deficient is lacking.
The dagger build should be completely fine and offers enough ways to survive in most cases, also higher damage ends fights quicker = less room for errors. Kiting at range constantly isn’t going to help him. On top of that, you do HPs once per char, usually. He also seems interested in keeping reaper and playing a lot in shroud, neither which your build provide.
All in all your build definitely is a safe one, imo too safe and boring, however if you ever find yourself having to solo a champ which you can’t kill otherwise then it’d work I guess. Though even then I’d swap Death Nova for Corrupter’s Fervor and Unholy Martyr for Transfusion to keep your minions alive longer, as they’re supposed to facetank mobs for you, or so I guess.
I’m just providing a build that is inline with the OP’s request. Yup, it’s safe and boring but it is by far, the easiest HoT PVE build you can play.
Based on the OP’s feedback, he’s doing fine without the advice I provided, which is great because no one really should strive to play the easiest, boring and safe builds.
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Anet shouldn’t ruin the game in the first place. Jagged Horrors aren’t the only excessive effect. Quickness, Alacrity, 25 stacks of Might are also excessive effects. But they are still “intended” (until next patch?).
That’s true, there are lots of excessive effects and Anet decides which ones are intended or not. Anet decided that stacking boon and duration wasn’t. so they made changes. Seems like a perfectly reasonable way to approach game changes to me, given that it’s their prerogative to do that. So what’s the problem here? … other than your excessively sensational interpretation that this ‘ruins’ the game?
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Build diversity is affected by movement speed but not in the way you are meaning. I mean, how is having a trait in Chrono for run speed any different than the warrior or engineer runspeed traits? I still have to be locked into a traitline to get those traits on those classes …
The fact is that build diversity is equally limited on all professions by runspeed buffs because if you want a runspeed buff (which is not needed for any build to function BTW), you have to make a choice SOMEWHERE to get it, whether it’s a traitline, a skill, or even sigil or runeset.
The bottomline is that choosing runspeed buff ‘limits’ diversity, just like any other choice you make on other build parameters limits your diversity. You only get a finite set of things to choose from.
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Berserker gear, scholar runes, spite/blood magic/reaper, wells, dagger/focus (I personally use dagger trait for movement speed) is easiest PvE build. Probably the most damage as well.
Condition does not kill as fast in general PvE and I don’t think the sustain is as good either.
Yeah but as far as EASIEST HOT Necro goes … I’m not certain this is good advice. Most of the mobs in HoT aren’t just ones where you go up to them face to face and beat them to death and pop a well. If you do, it’s certainly not ‘easy’ compared to ….
Easiest HoT roaming builds are berserker power MM or viper/sinister condition Minion Master. Minions add sustain by holding aggro.
After them is berserker shouts. The shouts add the necessary sustain to a glass build by its AoE conditions.
I would only use Death Magic on condition damage builds but that is my personal preference. Spite can let you trade staff for axe-focus, which is good for minions.
This is better advice for an Easy HoT build. Personally, I use …
It kills slower? Depends. The trade off is … I never die. I also solo Champ HP’s with it. Don’t think your typical Dagger Power build can do that … at least not as easily as I do.
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I still don’t understand this condition warrior and I never will. I know that this game supports such thing as a condition warrior, but seriously show me any other fantasy concept of warrior that kills you slowly by bleeding you to death…
What other games do aren’t relevant to a discussion on what this game does. I don’t know how condition warrior fares, but the condition Zerker is quite good IMO.
Yeah, that sounds about right to me … but GW2 isn’t even close to doing that and the tools that Chronos and Revs that got nerfed weren’t achieving that either …
So tell me why again that these changes are bad if the goal is to achieve a healthy game environment?
Because the new state is worse than the old state.
The fact is that the changes they made are actually inline with moving to a more healthy metagame environment and a more sensible, reasonable application of a class skills. Yet, you’re unhappy they did so, while saying they should attempt to do it. So weird when people contradict themselves.
At this rate it may take years to achieve a healthy metagame environment, while individual patches (like this one) can make it unhealthier.
Yet that’s exactly how you should expect these changes to be made … new to MMO’s? It’s unrealistic to expect Anet to allow unintended, excessive effects to continue in the game, even ifyou think it ruins the current state of the game. That’s just sensational posturing.
The fact is that the way it was before was not a healthy game environment; I’ve already explained why a few times. You can pout, but it’s true.
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Wow, what game are you playing? Guard/DH useless in all game modes? Sensational much? Guard/DH are very much useful in all modes of this game. There are some dark spots but ‘useless’ is certainly not an accurate word to describe this class right now in this game.
A healthy meta includes every class with possible multiple builds, thus giving diversity WHILE RETAINING EFFICIENCY.
Yeah, that sounds about right to me … but GW2 isn’t even close to doing that and the tools that Chronos and Revs that got nerfed weren’t achieving that either …
So tell me why again that these changes are bad if the goal is to achieve a healthy game environment?
Because they made it overall worse and other changes should’ve been made in its place.
Also, just because GW2 isn’t close to doing that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t strive to do so.
That’s a pretty presumptive and easy statement to make but it’s not as easy to do it … there are LOTS of things they could have done but that’s not really relevant.
The fact is that the changes they made are actually inline with moving to a more healthy metagame environment and a more sensible, reasonable application of a class skills. Yet, you’re unhappy they did so, while saying they should attempt to do it. So weird when people contradict themselves.
ANYTHING does not work if you want efficient and fast. So silly when people post that.
My build is:
Full zerkers with scholar runes
GS Fire Air
LBow Fire Air
Use Cats/Birds
Healing Spring
Hunt SIgnet
Renewal Signet
Stone Signet
Strength of the Pack
Marksmanship: Mid Mid Low
Beastmastery: Mid Mid High
Survival: Mid Low High
This build gives you:
1. Good damage at range and close
2. Good ways to open fights (Massive Vuln or Swoop)
3. Good ways to close fights (avoiding lingering conditions)
4. Constant, passive Runspeed boost
Remember, your fighting mostly trash so no sense in buffing your long term damage skills. Stacking short bursty attacks are best. Rotations as you think of them in dungeons, etc … are not relevant.
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A healthy meta includes every class with possible multiple builds, thus giving diversity WHILE RETAINING EFFICIENCY.
Yeah, that sounds about right to me … but GW2 isn’t even close to doing that and the tools that Chronos and Revs that got nerfed weren’t achieving that either …
So tell me why again that these changes are bad if the goal is to achieve a healthy game environment?
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It’s not maybe … you don’t need a Chrono or 2 Chrono.
There is nothing healthy about any meta. It’s fundamental nature is exclusivity. Here is the best part about this thread. The OP wants diversity … but is complaining about nerfs on exclusive tools that establish a strong metagame promoting exclusivity. /shrug
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Unfortunately we are not nearly as close to reasonable range. Instead of making a chrono droppable, the patch has made them needed in double the old amount.
No, they are not needed double the old amount; obviously there is an issue with understanding what ‘need’ means.
Anet did not design raids to NEED any particular class. This is where you’re whole argument fails; the premise is not true.
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You mean brings it inline….
Inline with what?
With the idea that stats matter … oh pardon me, a correction is in order .. that stats matter for ALL aspects of a characters abilities, not just damage.
Nice idea, so is Utopia. Until classes have specific roles and responsibilities that separate them this isn’t possible. Too much class convergence or similar abilities. Or at least in my opinion.
I still believe this is a issue of design whereas the game was launched without any form class trinity or specific roles. Healer, Tank, Support. And now we are paying the price.
Classes having roles doesn’t have anything to do with making skills more dependent on stats. I mean, it’s pretty hypocritcal to say it shouldn’t be that way … yet for 4 years, no one QQed that damage was very dependent on power, precision and ferocity. I guess when it’s convenient …
Axe will never compete with the highest DPS power builds you can get on a Necro, simply because it’s part of that lost child class of weapons that do midrange damage.
If being within 5% with only self-buffs isn’t competing, I don’t know what is.
Axe is within 5% of the highest Necro DPS builds? Nice … when did you do that calculation?