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Stop them from what and why? They aren’t a problem.
Stop them from making the most gold with mechanics that aren’t core-mechanics of GW2. GW2 isn’t build around the traiding post, the traiding post has nothing to do with the design of a MMO and noone buys GW2 to play the traiding post.
Everything you have just said here … is wrong.
TP is a core mechanic because it’s the only reliable method to get materials/gear in this game … and it’s obviously intended to be this way from concept to design right to it’s implementations. It’s not relevant if people buy GW2 to play the trading post. It’s still an intended, integral part of the game. That’s just nonsense to think something that people get enjoyment from doing and are allowed to do by the design of the game itself so they continue playing the game should be prevented.
Where I have the most problem with your logic is that you seem to think that Anet has somehow unintentionally made the TP in a way that people could make lots of money from it. You think people making much money on the TP is a mistake; It’s intended by design. If it wasn’t, their wouldn’t be people doing it and there wouldn’t be Anet supporting it.
Yes it is the reliable source of materials. It is however not intended to be such a great way to make money.
That is something you simply don’t know and can’t state as a fact. If it wasn’t intended to be a way to make money or even huge amounts of money, it wouldn’t work the way it does from the beginning of the game.
You can continue to claim TP isn’t a core mechanic but that doesn’t make it true. It’s there for players to make the game playable, intended and NECESSARY from the start of the game. This is why it’s a core part of the game. I’m not sure how you can deny this.
It is a core mechanic as a way to get materials, a way for people who have materials they don’t need to sell them. That is the core mechanic, that is intended and needed for a healthy game. However it is not intended to give the greatest revenue in this game.
AGAIN … That is something you simply don’t know and can’t state as a fact. I’m certain when Anet was sitting around their table designing the TP, they knew there were going to be players who would be making big money on the TP … and they STILL put it in game this way. They HAD to have known … other games with similar features have the same players making the same big money with the same methods. It’s not something they would have overlooked. It’s something they knew would happen.
You’re in denial here. If Anet implemented a system they knew would generate large amounts of wealth for some individuals, that shows they approve of the ability for it to make people money. Even if they DON’T intend or approve of allowing it to make a few super rich individuals, they tolerate it because of the recognition that the TP’s benefit outweighs the ‘problem’ of having a few people get rich from it.
Either way, you are severely misguided by your beliefs. It’s not a problem for the game or it’s players. It’s only a problem to people who are jealous or have some moral hangup.
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Stop them from what and why? They aren’t a problem.
Stop them from making the most gold with mechanics that aren’t core-mechanics of GW2. GW2 isn’t build around the traiding post, the traiding post has nothing to do with the design of a MMO and noone buys GW2 to play the traiding post.
Everything you have just said here … is wrong.
TP is a core mechanic because it’s the only reliable method to get materials/gear in this game … and it’s obviously intended to be this way from concept to design right to it’s implementations. It’s not relevant if people buy GW2 to play the trading post. It’s still an intended, integral part of the game. That’s just nonsense to think something that people get enjoyment from doing and are allowed to do by the design of the game itself so they continue playing the game should be prevented.
Where I have the most problem with your logic is that you seem to think that Anet has somehow unintentionally made the TP in a way that people could make lots of money from it. You think people making much money on the TP is a mistake; It’s intended by design. If it wasn’t, their wouldn’t be people doing it and there wouldn’t be Anet supporting it.
Yes it is the reliable source of materials. It is however not intended to be such a great way to make money.
That is something you simply don’t know and can’t state as a fact. If it wasn’t intended to be a way to make money or even huge amounts of money, it wouldn’t work the way it does from the beginning of the game.
You can continue to claim TP isn’t a core mechanic but that doesn’t make it true. It’s there for players to make the game playable, intended and NECESSARY from the start of the game. This is why it’s a core part of the game. I’m not sure how you can deny this.
It’s not even a valid argument to say people shouldn’t be making lots of money because it’s not a core element. That’s just semantics. This is a sandbox .. Anet doesn’t dictate to anyone how they HAVE to make their money. They make methods avaialble to players to make money …. this is one of them. They obviously don’t care people make money on TP, core or not.
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People who are farming materials can make as much money as people who run dungeons. Any other source of reliable income is ArenaNet’s cup of tea: Encouraging more people to do different thing while still getting rewarded. Traiding post flipping can’t and shouldn’t be the answer to a lack of ways to get a good amount of gold.
This makes no sense … TP wasn’t ‘introduced’ at some later date as an ‘answer’ to some deficiency in gold-making methods. It’s been their from the start as an intended feature, integral to the game and it’s function.
Stop them from what and why? They aren’t a problem.
Stop them from making the most gold with mechanics that aren’t core-mechanics of GW2. GW2 isn’t build around the traiding post, the traiding post has nothing to do with the design of a MMO and noone buys GW2 to play the traiding post.
Everything you have just said here … is wrong.
TP is a core mechanic because it’s the only reliable method to get materials/gear in this game … and it’s obviously intended to be this way from concept to design right to it’s implementations. It’s not relevant if people buy GW2 to play the trading post. It’s still an intended, integral part of the game. That’s just nonsense to think something that people get enjoyment from doing and are allowed to do by the design of the game itself so they continue playing the game should be prevented.
Where I have the most problem with your logic is that you seem to think that Anet has somehow unintentionally made the TP in a way that people could make lots of money from it. You think people making much money on the TP is a mistake; It’s intended by design. If it wasn’t, their wouldn’t be people doing it and there wouldn’t be Anet supporting it.
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Stop them from what and why? They aren’t a problem.
While you might be right, this wasn’t the point Wanze was making.
JS"s posts have content. Stuff he’s explaining how it works.
Most others “Hi, leave comments, be friendly, read these rules” …
JS by FAR has the most posts that contain DISCUSSION is what I believe Wanze is saying.
I’ve given an example, a theoretical one but I’ll repeat myself:
Every income in this game, exept traiding post flipping, is based on a set amount of gold. Every income is furthermore gated by time.
So for every income except traiding post flipping, this formula would apply:
Set amount of gold * time spent.
For the traiding post flippinf however, this formula applies:
Variable amount of gold * time spent.
So the problem is that, based on the starting gold you use, you can make insane an amount gold just by flipping.
And that is justified for numerous reasons … one being the risk involved with flipping, another being the entry fee. This has all been covered before. The main difference being guaranteed return vs. not. Hence, the increased rewards for flipping. You haven’t come up with anything that hasn’t been already been addressed previously.
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The game is all about gold because very little in the game at level 80 isnt about getting gold.
Means to an end vs. ends to a mean. Everything about the endgame for ME is not about gold because you need very little gold to do any of the endgame content. It’s all balanced around gear that is obtained EASILY by the time you reach 80. I believe this is the mindset players need to have to adopt and enjoy GW2. It’s not a ‘goldchasing’ game because you simply don’t need huge piles of gold to play and be successful.
You can’t make generalized statements based on your perception of game rewards/economy and claim it’s ‘wrong’, unbalanced or whatever. Well, I guess you can, but you don’t really have alot of people that make a difference taking you seriously when you do.
You just did the exact thing. Made a generalized statement based on your perception. Not saying your[statement is right or wrong just pointing out that lil tidbit.
I simply stated what I think about the game and it’s intent is … I can make generalizations about myself, what and how I think. The difference is that I’m not using it to make an absolute statement about the game to claim it’s ‘wrong, unbalanced or broken’.
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The game is all about gold because very little in the game at level 80 isnt about getting gold.
Means to an end vs. ends to a mean. Everything about the endgame for ME is not about gold because you need very little gold to do any of the endgame content. It’s all balanced around gear that is obtained EASILY by the time you reach 80. I believe this is the mindset players need to have to adopt and enjoy GW2. It’s not a ‘goldchasing’ game because you simply don’t need huge piles of gold to play and be successful.
You can’t make generalized statements based on your perception of game rewards/economy and claim it’s ‘wrong’, unbalanced or whatever. Well, I guess you can, but you don’t really have alot of people that make a difference taking you seriously when you do.
The real point of this thread as i see it is, Someone feels there is an unbalance in rewarding tasks, that seem to have a bias towards one type of gameplay over others, that the poster feels adds disproportionate value to the game as what that it takes away in his opinion.
The real response to this thread is that you won’t get a ‘balance’ between rewarding tasks in an MMO because that’s a matter of opinion. If that doesn’t satisfy, better not play MMO’s where there is more than one way to play.
If you were a designer, i would walk away.
Rewarding tasks are not a matter of opinion, you can do an equation to figure out how rewarding a task in, you can define it various terms.
That’s what GW2 is. Rewards are VERY defined. I know what rewards I get for doing task X. I know I get a different reward for doing task Y. Just because you don’t agree that the relative reward differences between X and Y aren’t inline with what you think they should be doesn’t make them unbalanced. That’s simply an opinion.
This is simply a matter of players expressing their jealousy … he has more gold than me, nerf his approach to earning gold.
its not really about gold, its about value gained per task. I often use gold as measure of that because this game is very gold heavy.
It is really about gold because almost everything you get from doing content in this game has a value related to an amount of gold. Even those tokens from dungeons have gold value because they are used to buy gear that is comparable to gear purchased with gold.
in this you are correct, in GW2, it really is about gold, and thats why people get into these big debates on what task is the most rewarding or should be the most rewarding, because once you accept that its about gold, all forms of play can be broken down to how much gold they earn, and then you have a degrees of playing the game right, if you have any of the endgame items/services as a goal.
There is no ‘acceptance’ of the idea that the game is all about gold unless you CHOOSE to make it all about gold. If a player decides they want to make this game into a gold hunt, then they really couldn’t care about the content they needed to do to get it or the balance of the rewards over the various things to do in the game; Gold hunters just do whatever to get gold as as simply satisfied with this.
If players reject the idea that the game is all about making gold and just embrace the completion of activities, then they experience I believe is the intented by the devs; to provide you with a game experience to have fun while earning rewards anyways in time. The game does this well and it should; it’s the intent.
TLDR; players chasing gold do it by choice, not because the game makes them.
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The real point of this thread as i see it is, Someone feels there is an unbalance in rewarding tasks, that seem to have a bias towards one type of gameplay over others, that the poster feels adds disproportionate value to the game as what that it takes away in his opinion.
The real response to this thread is that you won’t get a ‘balance’ between rewarding tasks in an MMO because that’s a matter of opinion. If that doesn’t satisfy, better not play MMO’s where there is more than one way to play.
If you were a designer, i would walk away.
Rewarding tasks are not a matter of opinion, you can do an equation to figure out how rewarding a task in, you can define it various terms.
That’s what GW2 is. Rewards are VERY defined. I know what rewards I get for doing task X. I know I get a different reward for doing task Y. Just because you don’t agree that the relative reward differences between X and Y aren’t inline with what you think they should be doesn’t make them unbalanced. That’s simply an opinion.
This is simply a matter of players expressing their jealousy … he has more gold than me, nerf his approach to earning gold.
its not really about gold, its about value gained per task. I often use gold as measure of that because this game is very gold heavy.
It is really about gold because almost everything you get from doing content in this game has a value related to an amount of gold. Even those tokens from dungeons have gold value because they are used to buy gear that is comparable to gear purchased with gold.
not disagreeing with you, but the problem is that eventually noobies become level 80, whether they are casual or not. And this is the point where people are like oh snap, wtf. When they realize that the game is no longer about exploring the world, doing dungeons, getting karma, or whatever their old goals were, The goals are now dominated by how much gold you can earn, the best method of obtaining these items is to either become a merchant, or to grind easy content repeatedly. Its not really how you played before, and for a lot of people it isnt that entertaining. Not to mention, the grind required is often huge.
That’s such a load of garbage. The game is whatever you make it. Goals are only dominated by gold if you MAKE it your goal for something that requires it as fast as you can. Gold does NOT have to dominate people’s goals once they hit level 80. That’s simply your perception.
What makes your perception even more nonsensical is that you get gold whether you want it or not by doing all those endgame activities so you don’t even need to do content you don’t like to earn it. You simply play the game how you want.
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The real point of this thread as i see it is, Someone feels there is an unbalance in rewarding tasks, that seem to have a bias towards one type of gameplay over others, that the poster feels adds disproportionate value to the game as what that it takes away in his opinion.
The real response to this thread is that you won’t get a ‘balance’ between rewarding tasks in an MMO because that’s a matter of opinion. If that doesn’t satisfy, better not play MMO’s where there is more than one way to play.
If you were a designer, i would walk away.
Rewarding tasks are not a matter of opinion, you can do an equation to figure out how rewarding a task in, you can define it various terms.
That’s what GW2 is. Rewards are VERY defined. I know what rewards I get for doing task X. I know I get a different reward for doing task Y. Just because you don’t agree that the relative reward differences between X and Y aren’t inline with what you think they should be doesn’t make them unbalanced. That’s simply an opinion.
This is simply a matter of players expressing their jealousy … he has more gold than me, nerf his approach to earning gold.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
The real point of this thread as i see it is, Someone feels there is an unbalance in rewarding tasks, that seem to have a bias towards one type of gameplay over others, that the poster feels adds disproportionate value to the game as what that it takes away in his opinion.
The real response to this thread is that you won’t get a ‘balance’ between rewarding tasks in an MMO because that’s a matter of opinion. If that doesn’t satisfy, better not play MMO’s where there is more than one way to play.
Why would the Primordial living story make Guardian Cond Damage useless? Do we already have information that indicates new foes in this story will be immune to burning? How many of them?
If we had more information, then it could be a significant concern … not only if it renders Guardian burning damage useless but … any build worth a salt in PVE is rocking the 10% damage increase on burning targets. That’s a really big and SPECIFIC hit to Guardians.
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(btw, I don’t have lots of gold, ….. I don’t really do dungeons much, because..well, I don’t like doing them daily, it;s boring.
TP, is my way to earn gold, instead of dungeons..why take that from players?)That’s a whole other issue. It’s ANet’s lack of establishing other methods of income in the game. That however doesn’t justify the obsolete amount of gold you can acquire from the traidingpost without even doing one step out of the traidinpost office.
There is no lack of methods to gain income in this game … ><
I’m glad they re-released it. Shows that the bumping of nonsense threads doesn’t deter Anet from following their plans. I’m looking forward to more ‘bonus mat’ harvesting tools in LW Season 2.
I was thinking about this logic being applied here … OP doesn’t want to buy from an undercutter …. but if you look, everyone is undercutting with the exception of the guy at the highest selling price ….
Isn’kitten tad hypocritical to say you don’t want to buy from the lowest seller because of undercutting, but you don’t have any problem buying from everyone else undercutting the highest seller. Not really adding up here. Well, at least the OP isn’t pushing his agenda as a logical one.
Signet of Why-do-people-think-they-know-how-everyone-should-play.
The fact of the matter is, class doesn’t matter at all for pve roaming. Open world is stupidly easy.
Just because it’s easy doesn’t mean you can’t optimize how you do it. This is what the OP is asking about with regards to Guardians. If you are interested in optimizing, arguments about who does more DPS aren’t all that significant.
With the right build, Guardian can throw down the same, multiple damage effects with almost 100% consistence at EACH trash mob they kill without a ‘’setup" like Mesmers, a lengthy cooldown times like a necro or aggro interruptions from pet classes. To boot, they have effects that block initial, time wasting hits from mobs like Risen Bulls. Aside from the Warrior, Ele and Eng (which I haven’t played at 80 yet), no other class can compare to the way a properly built Guardian can farm open world.
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Don’t let others confuse you … how you kill fast in openworld farming (where the mobs’ hits don’t hurt enough to care and they typically die in 5-8 hits) is NOT the same thing as dungeons
It may not be the same but I kill most open world mobs in 1-3 hits with my dungeon gear. Only thing that would take 5-8 hits would be a tankish vet. Although, I am a thief… although I see do wars burning things down only slightly slower than me but it’s always in aoe and they are much tankier.
Perhaps that is all true but I’m not misleading anyone when I say that someone playing LIKE they are in a dungeon while farming open world isn’t optimized for the task. They haven’t considered all the factors and they tend to be stuck in the ‘DPS = the best" mode. That’s just a small part.
As a few examples: A player doing Guardian would never use a spirit weapon in a dungeon. In openworld farming it could reduce the number of hits you need to kill a mob by 1. That’s a big deal when stuff dies in a handful of hits. In dungeons you dodge because bad things happen when you don’t. In openworld, you factank because everyone is built to take a good number of hits from trash and a dodge is lost opportunity to kill something that dies from a few hits anyways.
It’s a different way of thinking. There are alot of aspects people don’t think about for openworld farm; your damage is only one of them. How fast you run, the path you take on the map, if you divert to farm a node that’s off the beaten path … If you are interested in optimizing your openworld farming experience, I advice you go about it from a different angle than you would dungeons which is really just straight forward.
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Don’t let others confuse you … how you kill fast in openworld farming (where the mobs’ hits don’t hurt enough to care and they typically die in 5-8 hits) is NOT the same thing as dungeons (where a single mob hit hurts and the mobs are designed for team kills). Burst > sustain damage in openworld as well so any advice that ‘proves’ how much damage a class does and concluding they are strong open world farming classes is not based on the correct underlying situations.
Guardian is one of the best. They stack damage effects (DD, Burning, symbol, and a bit of retal and even spirit weapon if you dare) and have effects that prevent them being CC’ed by trash (mostly the blind from active VoJ trait, sword and GS #3) but they are slow. That’s addressed with Traveler’s Runes.
My Guardian is full zerk with Travelers runes. My typical farming setup is GS with 5/5/0/0/4, though this can vary on my mood. It’s on par with my D/P 6/6/2/0/0 thief for damage, but the Guardian is more resilient and facetanks well, which is what you want when you farm; dodging while farming is not necessary based on the blinds and Aegis available. More precisely, you don’t want to dodge in PVE farming because tanking the mobs is easy and the Guardian has the best tools to mitigate facetanked damage.
I also found that Necro is highly effective farming because of how many AoE damage effects they can stack, but they don’t have much of a toolset to deal with knockbacks, etc.. that cause delays in farming. Sometimes pets will be aggro or cause mobs to move more than necessary; not farming optimal. I haven’t tried Warrior or Engi to comment how they compare. Typically, anything that needs to ‘setup’ sucks for farming; Mesmer is one example.
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While you 3 or 4 duke it out, I’m just going to leave this here:
Do they have one debunking the ‘round’ Earth theory as well?
GW2 seems to have trouble figuring that out, which I think comes back to the issue that this game is economy focused instead of content focused. Every encounter is designed around how it will affect the economy instead of centered around the reward like in other MMO’s.
I dont think the game is economy-focused. But every single decision regarding rewards, loot, item WILL have an impact on the game economy. The fact is, you really do have to take into consideration the game economy, because a lot is hinged on that. I’d wager a poor economy turns people off faster than poor content. (case in point: count how many threads there are that complain about how a.) the market is screwed b.) difficult it is to get a certain reward vs the lameness of the dungeon, living world, game mechanics, etc.)
But it doesn’t have to be. Rewards in Wildstar, WoW, Rift, etc don’t have any effect on the economy. Gold is used for fluff and if you have bad luck and that is it.
Sounds like GW2 … Gold is also primarily used for fluff. You don’t need gold once you outfit yourself for whatever aspect of the game you want to play. Ascended gear is not needed for anything but the MOST difficult encounters only because of a specific gating stat to boot, not the increase of stats you get from the gear itself. That’s where the difference you speak of is a wash. Other games evolve around ever increasing tiers of more powerful gear. GW2 does not.
People need to understand that FUNDAMENTAL difference between GW2 and everything else before they start QQing about rewards, gold, inflation, economy, etc… most don’t. Once you come to realize that almost ALL game content is balanced around the rare/exotic-level of gear, you come to realize how silly crying about the difficulty of obtaining Ascended gear actually is.
the gear in other games is really just a gating mechanism, or an incentive. It doesnt really matter as much as the fact that their is teired content, it basically allows them to simulate a beat this level and progress to the harder new area thing.
GW2 has gear teirs, but it isnt leading you anywhere. I dont object to that in principle, but the problem is it does lead you, just not into playing the game in the best way. The best way to play gw2 reward wise, is to do the simplest easiest thing that generates the most equivalent value in gold. In other games, the best way to play is to do whatever they decide is the best things to do.Or in other words .. those game force you to do content you maybe don’t like at all to get your stuff, while GW2 allows you to play whatever content you like and you still can get your stuff.
Or you get gear you want for said content via said content.
You keep rehashing this statement like GW2 doesn’t do it … That’s exactly how it works in GW2 … The rewards you get assures you are working towards gear for the content you do by doing that content, all the while allowing players the freedom to do this under their own conditions.
Your complaint is that you don’t DIRECTLY receive SPECIFIC items X doing content Y … the modus operandi of most MMO’s. GW2 isn’t that kind of game, it never will be. It doesn’t make sense to defy the established method, then demand method conform to what satisfies you.
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The best way to play gw2 reward wise, is to do the simplest easiest thing that generates the most equivalent value in gold. In other games, the best way to play is to do whatever they decide is the best things to do.
That’s true of any game and it’s not actually a problem in GW2 because the rewards obtained from doing stuff are varied enough that players do choose other things if their only goal isn’t to make gold. It’s even debatable what the best way to make gold is in this game, so even if gold was the only reward people desired, they would STILL participate in many different activities according to what they like to do.
I don’t see the effect of optimized farming you are referring to; there are lots of people doing all kinds of different things. Therefore, I can’t help but think that while what you say could happen, it’s not happening.
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I agree that players interested in demanding high damage performance in teams are likely going to have analyzed this to death. That’s just expected. I can already anticipate Fire being preferred blast.
I don’t think it’s any consequence to segregating and discrimination against players … I think it’s true that any player that doesn’t care about their field blasting preferences doesn’t care about high damage performance either, so those teams don’t want them anyways.
That said, i will accept that JS isnt really the doctor, its not literally his job to cure anyone. However, as the designer, and maintainer of an economy whose main purpose is to foster exchange AND make the user feel satisfied (more so than a real economy). He should be concerned if a signifigant portion of players are complaining of tummyaches when he is the nutritionist.
You don’t have any data to suggest that a significant portion of players are complaining. Let’s also not assume that it’s part of his job to make players feel like their nonsense conspiracy theories about their own failure is being corrected. Again, he’s already addressed people. It’s not clear what kind of ‘cure’ you are after but whatever it is, JS doesn’t have it.
but i dont think this can be avoided, we have come to a fairly unbalanced economy in terms of the haves and the have nots. Basically anything of value is marketed on top earner basis first and foremost, and they earn money faster than other people. Im not just speaking of TP barons, but anyone who is somewhat focused on the economic side of the game.
Someone who concentrates on earning gold amasses wealth at a considerably greater rate on average than those that do not. This means high end items are priced within thier demand curve first to them, and then filter out to everyone else, depending on time, and supply.
This is not indicative of an ailing economy. In fact, if it DIDN’T work this way, people would have a cause to complain about it.
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GW2 seems to have trouble figuring that out, which I think comes back to the issue that this game is economy focused instead of content focused. Every encounter is designed around how it will affect the economy instead of centered around the reward like in other MMO’s.
I dont think the game is economy-focused. But every single decision regarding rewards, loot, item WILL have an impact on the game economy. The fact is, you really do have to take into consideration the game economy, because a lot is hinged on that. I’d wager a poor economy turns people off faster than poor content. (case in point: count how many threads there are that complain about how a.) the market is screwed b.) difficult it is to get a certain reward vs the lameness of the dungeon, living world, game mechanics, etc.)
But it doesn’t have to be. Rewards in Wildstar, WoW, Rift, etc don’t have any effect on the economy. Gold is used for fluff and if you have bad luck and that is it.
Sounds like GW2 … Gold is also primarily used for fluff. You don’t need gold once you outfit yourself for whatever aspect of the game you want to play. Ascended gear is not needed for anything but the MOST difficult encounters only because of a specific gating stat to boot, not the increase of stats you get from the gear itself. That’s where the difference you speak of is a wash. Other games evolve around ever increasing tiers of more powerful gear. GW2 does not.
People need to understand that FUNDAMENTAL difference between GW2 and everything else before they start QQing about rewards, gold, inflation, economy, etc… most don’t. Once you come to realize that almost ALL game content is balanced around the rare/exotic-level of gear, you come to realize how silly crying about the difficulty of obtaining Ascended gear actually is.
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I’ve never seen John Smith post anything insightful. Or answer player questions with reasons as to why something is done or not done.
Each post comes across as:
“This is my baby, and being its mother I believe it has no flaws.”And then the sycophants come in and cheer him on.
Maybe players shouldn’t ask the kind of questions or make the statements that deserve the kind of answers he gives. If people get their knowledge and background from a Cracker Jack’s box and use it to make conclusions about something as complex as the ingame economy and periodically press the same non-issues, they don’t really deserve insightful and respectable answers in the first place.
Good examples:
“I can’t afford a precursor, Inflation is to blame”
“Game doesn’t have good rewards”
“People that don’t camp TP can’t afford to buy stuff ingame”and etc …. Someone should start a list.
If someone tells a doctor they got stabbed in the gut because 5+5 is 55. you could argue that 5+5 is not 55, but the fact remains he has an abdominal wound, the doctor shouldnt really be focusing on telling the guy to go back to school, and should be trying to deal with the wound.
Its exaggerated, but the even with a less exaggerated analogy, if some one goes to the doctor with an incorrect self diagnosis, the doctor isnt really helping the guy by telling him to go to medical school.
You’re analogy here isn’t accurate because no one here has an ‘self-diagnosed abdominal wound’. JS is simply telling these people in his ’doctor’s office’ to go home because whatever ‘thing’ it is they think they ail from isn’t real. It’s something imagined because it’s based on people’s perception, not data.
Furthermore, it’s not even his job to convince people they aren’t suffering from abdominal pains or diagnose them properly so in that sense, he’s not even a ‘doctor’. JS simply wants you to have faith he’s telling you the truth and that’s REASONABLE given his access to the data as well as his credentials.
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I’ve never seen John Smith post anything insightful. Or answer player questions with reasons as to why something is done or not done.
Each post comes across as:
“This is my baby, and being its mother I believe it has no flaws.”And then the sycophants come in and cheer him on.
Maybe players shouldn’t ask the kind of questions or make the statements that deserve the kind of answers he gives. If people get their knowledge and background from a Cracker Jack’s box and use it to make conclusions about something as complex as the ingame economy and periodically press the same non-issues, they don’t really deserve insightful and respectable answers in the first place.
Good examples:
“I can’t afford a precursor, Inflation is to blame”
“Game doesn’t have good rewards”
“People that don’t camp TP can’t afford to buy stuff ingame”
and etc …. Someone should start a list.
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I didn’t miss it at all. I understand it’s your perception. What you don’t get is that your perception isn’t really aligned with the reality of what’s happening and therefore, your basis for making claims about how poorly things are done aren’t reflective of the actual gamestate. Perceptions can be changed, especially if your open minded enough to see the illustrated examples being brought to your attention are indicative of what the game is really like. It’s one thing to not know, it’s another to turn a blind eye when examples and cases are presented to you on a silver platter.
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I think that now the devs have comprehensively outlined their concept for the class, there should be no debate on suggestions that players make that match up with this concept. No longbows or other ranged weapons (because supporting team and leading form the front = weak ranged options), probably not condition enhancements (I get the feeling from seeing statements related to how powerful burning as a condition itself can be). I don’t rule out more HP enhancements; it appeared that the one guy was actually a little surprised Guardians filled their role so well with the HP we have.
I’m still hopeful spirit weapons (seemingly glossed over) can still be reviewed for how they can be applied.
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Very difficult subject here. I agree you want some form of understandable rules of which field will trigger, however I’m not certain that your own fields is the right one. I’m also not sure it is wrong, but I want to have a bunch of alternative discussion before we dedicate programmer time (which is what it would take) to address this issue.
I think a good exercise would be to list some possible systems and list the pros and cons of each.
i.e.
List Method
There is a personalized list where you get to pick the order that you care about.
Pro: You get to decide
Con: It is a pretty advanced decision that I never expect 90% of players to understand so it doesn’t solve the problem for the majority of the playerbase.
Con: Whatever you setup outside of a specific combat situation isn’t necessarily going to be the right thing once you get in combat. If instead there is a logic rule instead of a chosen one you can adapt your tactics to follow that rule and get the situational results you desire.
Con: Probably the most work of any of the currently proposed solutions without solving the problem for every user.I think there are a few more pros/cons to this system as well but I think you get the idea.
Other ideas floating out there
- Fixed Priority – Always the same priority for all players.
- Time Based – The most recent or least recent field is what triggers.
- Self Priority – Your own fields take priority (this would have to be a rule that stacks on top of another system.
Jon
I have to disagree with this:
1. Any player that doesn’t know enough about what fields they want to proc doesn’t care about having their choice anyways. There is no need to solve this for every player, only the ones that care enough to educate themselves.
2. Since you will have to create a whole new mechanic to deal with prioritizing this, you can make it a real time choice though stances or what have you; voila, no need to have complex rules to address dynamic playing conditions.
I don’t disagree with your third point … it’s alot of work in create and introduce a new mechanic just to allow players to blast preferred fields. Anything worth doing is alot of work.
It’s probably inflation
Wow, I love all the constructive feedback in here.
Considering the player is a veteran who knows enough to have 80 tomes gathered, I would say the feedback has been appropriate. In fact, anyone that thinks they can play any class appropriately through ‘buying’ their way to 80 isn’t going to get much guidance from players commenting on their builds … the barrier in this case isn’t any particular trait or gear. Playing is an integral part of the game for a reason.
You don’t need to lvl up your character all the way to lvl 80 in order to learn how to play it.
No, actually. Some people REALLY should play a bit to learn their profession if they want to team with others at level 80. I think one point that proves it is the quality of the build presented by the OP in this thread. That’s a clear lack of understanding the class. Not sure I would have any more confidence in someone’s ability to play the class who suggests a build like we seen here, even if they where handed a build perfectly suited to them.
Let me put this in another way … if you don’t think playing is a requirement to learn to play a class, you aren’t giving players enough credit for what they learn about the class while playing it … do you think the OP is going to know when to swap to particular weapons and why? When to swap a skill if the situation arises? Not a chance in hell.
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It’s problem b/c this game is known for having poor reward structure. JS doesn’t seem to understand why that is so (which is evident when he circles back to the macro economy in every discussion regarding rewards).
Anet acknowledges there is a reward issue. That is why they are “working” on it.
This game is accused of having a “poor reward structure” by players who don’t understand that it has the best reward structure.
In most MMOs, you have to grind Activity A to get Reward A. Doesn’t matter if you hate Activity A, you still have to grind it for hours upon hours to get Reward A. If you also want Reward B, then you have to grind hours upon hours of Activity B, which you can’t do at the same time as Activity A.
In GW2, you have ability to only play the content you like and buy the rewards you like. This means that I can do Activity B and get Reward A and Reward B and never have to touch Activity A.
The reward system in this game is superior to other MMOs because it lets you choose what content you want to do instead of shackling you to a grind you don’t enjoy.
Okay then why is GW2 known for poor rewards and the others are not?
A perception arises (at least for me) participating in certain content for a certain reward verses participating in any content for the same reward. Players are well known to try and become efficient as possible in their endeavors. This results in the former certain grind content for a certain reward being somewhat acceptable. The latter results in most content being inefficient grind since all content leads to the same objective. So most all content feels unrewarding since players know they could be more efficient doing something else with their time.
You have ignored his response explaining how playing the game is the primary reward, as well as your own previous statement that gold isn’t the only reward to be had playing. Your perception hasn’t accounted for the many ways other than gold that players are rewarded for doing different content as well as the fact that content rewards with multiple categories of reward types (gold, personal satisfaction, tokens, etc…) If your perception tells you there is only ONE activity you can do to maximize all the rewards you are personally interested, that’s a PERSONAL issue, not a globally relevant one applicable to all players in GW2. Generally, Anet does a good job balancing all these things for people over all game content. Count yourself in the unlucky minority.
I know it’s fun to invent things when opinion becomes fact but the bottom line is that you don’t know how much of the population of MMO players thinks GW2 has poor rewards. Furthermore, I don’t see the relevance … either you accept the game model or you don’t. If you can’t even bring yourself to think the rewards system is good and you don’t feel rewarded as a player, WTH are you doing playing GW2 and talking about inflation, etc… ? Sounds like you have higher level issues. If you don’t like the game, just go back to WoW or whatever.
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OK …. so you think inflation is a problem? if so, why? I think JS put it pretty eloquently already … if you think it is, you have some learning to do. And here I bet you think I wasn’t following the thread :p
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That’s a little obtuse. As a reminder to where this started, here is your response to one of my posts:
Gold is not a rewarding reward for a lot of players. It’s a secondary result of going for desired rewards. That’s where this game misses the mark. It believes gold is the best reward.
You’re talking about rewards and how gold ‘ranks’ as a reward. I’m just following the flow of the discussion and disagreeing with you because Anet has done many things to show they believe Gold isn’t the best reward in all game aspects; it’s simply another reward. If you want to bring in back to inflation because you have nothing more relevant to say about how player skills relate to rewards that aren’t only gold, go ahead. I’m sure it will be a significant contribution to the thread if you do.
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You’re off track here:
I made the point that skilled players are more rewarded than unskilled ones, based on extra opportunities skilled players get that unskilled ones don’t. You seem to believe this isn’t the case and provided RNG as an example. RNG is just as relevant to my point for the same reason: extra opportunities gained by skilled players.
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Dunno, but your trying really hard to do it by making so many posts that are irrelevant or don’t make sense.
It’s not even relevant if that’s true or not: Skilled players are more rewarded than unskilled ones even if you want to include RNG. Try again.
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Exceptions don’t prove or disprove general trends. I just acknowledged they exist to have an honest discussion. You attempted to use them to show unskilled players are rewarded as much as skilled ones. If you understood statistics (and they apply here because we are talking about a population) you would know why exceptions should be acknowledged and how they can be ignored because they are so infrequent that they don’t represent the whole population. That’s why I can ‘use them’ and you can’t.
The real difference is that the exception here doesn’t show that skilled players aren’t more rewarded. In fact, your example of RNG FAVOURS skilled players because skilled players get more opportunities for RNG to work in their favour than unskilled ones. The actual event of good loot form RNG is equal for a skilled or unskilled player, or a group of them, but skilled player get many more opportunities because they are more efficient.
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Skilled players are more rewarded in more ways than just gold and I believe based on how I see Anet changing the game (e.g. dungeon diminishing returns, champ train) as well as seeing how successful players actually play all the various aspects of the game. This doesn’t mean that if part of their reward is gold, there is a flaw in the reward system or that skilled players aren’t rewarded more because of it. I don’t see where you are going with your line of questions.
If you want to argue if gold is the ‘primary reward’, I don’t see how that’s relevant but if you think it’s relevant to the statement I made, back it up with examples (not exceptions) to show me why you think Gold as a primary reward DOESN’T reward skilled players more than scrubs. I don’t see skilled players complaining that they get gold from their activities, whether they consider it a primary reward or not.
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Gold is not a rewarding reward for a lot of players. It’s a secondary result of going for desired rewards.
Then GW2 is the game for those players because most game elements don’t make gold the primary reward. It’s certainly the case that the most accomplished PVP and WvW players don’t do it for gold. Even to a certain extent, a few PVE players don’t do spped runs in dungeons for gold either.
That’s where this game misses the mark. It believes gold is the best reward.
Unless you have some specific examples, the only exception I can think of where this is true are the short paths in dungeons … rewards here don’t match difficulty IMO. I don’t believe these limited cases justify your belief that Anet thinks gold is the best reward.
To provide a counter example, Anet just recently nerfed Champ trains … because they believe gold is the best reward? Think again. Same is true when they changed dungeon loot to limit rewards from repeating paths a long time back. Sorry, but there are lots of examples that actually prove your statement to be just wrong.
The most obvious example is that players cannot reasonably go directly after most rewards. They are locked behind rng, thus it is best to go for gold instead. It’s in the core design.
tl;dr RNG gating is the example
That example is WRONG because those same rewards can more frequently and more reliably be purchased on the TP. Furthermore, purchased with gold resulting from direct or sold rewards from doing any content you feel is most rewarding to YOU. The fact someone gets lucky doesn’t prove that, in general, the game rewards are not aligned to difficulty. There are exceptions but heir existence doesn’t invalidate Anet’s approach to rewarding players who are more skilled than others.
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^^ Are you going to QQ to me about the 1/10000 time someone pulls a precursor from a chest? Are you really going to make your argument based on highly improbable exceptions?
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There is no opposition, you just didn’t read what I wrote … I provided an EXCEPTION where rewards don’t match difficulty as well as COUNTER-EXAMPLES to show Anet is working to make rewards match difficulty as the game evolves. Reading is fun. You don’t need to be more specific but you haven’t really made a counter to my point either.
More skilled players are always going to be rewarded better in this game, even if they aren’t playing according to some standard you set for them and that’s evident from the examples I provided. Again, the simplest example being farming: The better outfitted and knowledgeable player is going to be better rewarded than the clueless scrub. Being skilled actually means knowing the most efficient approach to successfully completing the content you do … i.e., being rewarded.
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I don’t think this has much to do with a choice Anet made. There are laws and regulations for all these sorts of things that basically tell them how they have to act as a corporate citizen in various economic zones when exchanging services and goods for money. I’ve seen the same complaint in other games as well. In fact, I can’t think of a single game where it doesn’t happen.
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It was due to an exploit letting people list stuff on the TP without paying the listing fee.
And nobody was banned for that afaik.
Few (really few) were burnt selling few precursors for 2 silvers when the exploit was stealth fixed.
Hook, line and sinker. Gratz to the OP.
Gold is not a rewarding reward for a lot of players. It’s a secondary result of going for desired rewards.
Then GW2 is the game for those players because most game elements don’t make gold the primary reward. It’s certainly the case that the most accomplished PVP and WvW players don’t do it for gold. Even to a certain extent, a few PVE players don’t do spped runs in dungeons for gold either.
That’s where this game misses the mark. It believes gold is the best reward.
Unless you have some specific examples, the only exception I can think of where this is true are the short paths in dungeons … rewards here don’t match difficulty IMO. I don’t believe these limited cases justify your belief that Anet thinks gold is the best reward.
To provide a counter example, Anet just recently nerfed Champ trains … because they believe gold is the best reward? Think again. Same is true when they changed dungeon loot to limit rewards from repeating paths a long time back. Sorry, but there are lots of examples that actually prove your statement to be just wrong.
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