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Obtena, while you’re mostly right (surviving actual burst damage is pretty much the only thing Guardians should be universally okay at), that was probably overly harsh. Calling people bad is never a way to have a useful discussion.
The reason most people aren’t successful with anything but a few builds? Because most people are just average or scrubs.
Yes and no. Some builds are just widely better than others. And some builds are significantly easier to be successful with. You can’t fault individuals players for that.
Harsh? Perhaps, but considering the ridiculous statement that Guardians have lame block access, it was appropriate. I recognize some builds are better than others but I also recognize that depending on how you want to play, additional builds can be good as well if your deficiencies are addressed by other players. Let’s remember that tPVP is more than just hot join or 1 vs. 1. Playing smart with others makes up for alot of what those not-best builds lack.
Problem with your argument is missing the first “slap”, which is joining the party that you clearly did not meet the requirements for. That is the cause. The effect is the kick/complaints.
No. Casuals were being treated negatively LONG before there was a way to communicate requirements for teaming via LFG. Nice try.
Because you said so?
No, because it happened. I’m sure you can even recall discussions you participated in on the Guardian Forums about these very topics prior to when LFG was introduced ingame.
No I honestly can’t.
I don’t recall ever giving people kitten for playing how they want in their own groups
I guess my statement wasn’t clear to you. People were treated poorly for not playing a specific way before LFG. Forums was one place it was happening. It was happening ingame prior to LFG. I was under the impression you were aware of these activities, having seen you participate in the Guardian forums in these discussions.
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Honestly, Obtena, do you really take a moment to think of what you’re doing? Suggesting it’s inappropriate to choose who a said player will play with, or not (PUG or not, who cares)? Suggesting that your idea of a PUG should be accepted by others for no reason other than your own desire? Suggesting that players go out of their way to help others who won’t even ask what’s in a LFG sign they don’t understand?
That’s what you think I’m suggesting? Let me clear something up here. I’m all for choosing who you want to play with. I’m all for people playing how they want (because if they aren’t, their head isn’t screwed on right). I’m all for tolerance and education. What does that mean?
Play with who you want to, but be responsible and smart about it. Setting a LFG message, expecting people to abide and washing your hands of the responsibilities of ensuring your in a team you want makes no sense. That LFG message doesn’t dissolve anyone of the need for the same checks that were done BEFORE LFG was implemented. I think it’s MORE necessary now than ever because yes, I doubt many people will ask about the LFG message if they don’t understand, care or know. Even if they ask, what does someone tell them? Come to this subforum for information? It’s and interesting stance to blame someone for not asking, but if there isn’t any place to direct them to, it’s meaningless.
I don’t think the message has changed, just because there is a new way to make a team: If there is a requirement to play with certain people, it’s up to the person/people with those requirements to find them.
It also means that if players have special requirements to higher performing teams, they need to educate people on what that means and how to do it. The toxic approach taken in the Guardian forums to do that over a year ago was a failure. Renewed efforts are better; we have DPS guides now in may profession forums, they are extremely useful.
Finally, it also means I think that if a player who likes to dictate or question how others should play gets himself ridiculed or kicked from a team because he doesn’t meet the team requirements, he should just suck it up.
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Problem with your argument is missing the first “slap”, which is joining the party that you clearly did not meet the requirements for. That is the cause. The effect is the kick/complaints.
No. Casuals were being treated negatively LONG before there was a way to communicate requirements for teaming via LFG. Nice try.
Because you said so?
No, because it happened. I’m sure you can even recall discussions you participated in on the Guardian Forums about these very topics prior to when LFG was introduced ingame.
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That goes without saying … but if a player knows the dungeon in and out, and joins a speedrun in clerics (because nothing ingame tells them) … no speed run team is still going to take them right? Let’s acknowledge that dungeon knowledge is not the same as optimized builds. No one gets kicked or accepted because they know every inch of a dungeon.
I’m not arguing that ‘elistists’ aren’t helpful. In fact, more helpful that people that aren’t. The issue here isn’t elistists not providing information, etc… the issue really comes down to this (As Darius mentioned):
1. If you CAN influence someone to run full zerk and learn, it’s not going to happen in a toxic place where people make froth videos of bowbear rangers, etc… GL with that.
2. If you CAN’T influence someone to set aside their values to run specific builds (or allow non-DPS to join your speed run team), acknowledge a level of intolerance that lead to actions like kicking and understand the effect that has on people.
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I think that depends on what side of the fence you are on. Prior to LFG, there was zero way to set an expectation for who you wanted to team with, so even more unreasonable to be giving people a difficult time because they didn’t ‘play right’.
I think it’s also worth mentioning that the vast majority of people don’t even read the forums. How does a player even begin to familiarize themselves with what is required of a team advertising a speed run? It’s not even reasonable. There isn’t anything in the game that prepares players for player-created requirements like that. Then people get all upset when they get cleric guy joining on a speed run team? What else do you expect?
It’s not about “playing right”. It’s about standards that anyone has the right to set. Some players set a Role Playing standard to join their party. Do you see anyone complaining?
I think that if RP was a prevalent standard and people were joining ignoring that, yes, people would complain alot. The fact is that everyone can have values offended by others.
Your reasons for lack of preparation are the ones which are unreasonable. If someone doesn’t understand what the LFG sign means, he could whisper the player and ask? He could also join and immediately say that he has no idea what the LFG sign meant and ask for an explanation. How many times have you seen players doing that, though?
I’ll repeat what I said to begin with: Your explanation is unreasonable, not the standards you say are unreasonable. Where there’s a will there’s a way…
It’s not unreasonable at all because those aren’t requirements to play the game. They are made by players. If I they aren’t necessary to complete the content successfully, why would anyone even think to ask if it’s OK to join a PUG? Again, nothing ingame prepares anyone for how players segregate themselves for speed runs in dungeons. You don’t know what you don’t know.
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I think that depends on what side of the fence you are on. Prior to LFG, there was zero way to set an expectation for who you wanted to team with, so even more unreasonable to be giving people a difficult time because they didn’t ‘play right’. At least now, people making teams can give some context to the kind of team they are making. While I can see why people are upset their LFG messages are ignored, consider this:
The vast majority of people don’t even read the forums and there is nothing in-game that tells people how to interpret player-created teaming criteria (Yes, I know some people just blatantly ignore those). How does a player even begin to familiarize themselves with what is required of a team advertising a speed run? Even if it occurs to someone to go to the forum … they come here and see what? Froth, toxic and QQ … no one is going to waste time here. Then people get all upset when they get cleric guy joining on a speed run team? What else do you expect? There is no manual for “How to play for speedrun dungeons” ingame.
There is no real point here to revisit history. It’s the situation we have now. What do people do to change that? Tolerance, education.
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You dont know what is compelling to Anet, in fact the more people that voice their want for them, or even indifference, are the only reasons needed,
We don’t need to know that. An argument is compelling if someone makes you say “Oh wait, I didn’t think of that”. People arguing for mounts haven’t done so. Not knowing what you think will be compelling doesn’t make uncompelling QQ more … compelling.
Personally, I don’t feel ‘extra level of personalization’ is that compeilling argument because it can apply to ANYTHING that has been already ingame; mini’s, skins, etc… How many levels of personalization are necessary? Better yet, what is the value of having enough mounts ingame to claim it’s even another level of personalization? I don’t think anyone even understands what would be required to program the amount of mounts needed to achieve that extra personalization level. It really doesn’t seem to be a good ROI for Anet.
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A related topic … I’m still on the fence for something like an orbweaver. CIrcle strafing for me is no possible with a keyboard/mouse layout. If the thumb joystick on the orbweaver can be programmed for cursor targetting, I’m home free.
Can anyone confirm is that’s the case?
I use an orbweaver for my left hand. The joystick has 8 positions that can be programmed so, if what you need can be keybound, then it will work on the orbweaver joystick.
OK, that answers my question … so no, the thumbstick won’t move my cursor for ground targetting. I could be programmed for movement though.
Guardian is actually NOT in a “pretty good spot” right now.
Why? The first problem is that the base stats of a Guardian leave you in a spot where you cannot survive spike damage in any way, shape or form.So Guardians, kings of blocks and Aegis, with lots of blinds access, have NO way to survive spike damage in any way, shape or form? YEAH, OK. Guardians are MORE than adequately provided for to prevent damage, especially burst.
For kings of blocks and aegis, they sure do get some pretty lame block access.
That’s a pretty ignorant point of view. Our access to blocks/Aegis/blinds is the best of any profession that exists. Of course, if a player sucks, it won’t matter.
The reason Guardians can’t survive spiking is because they have no mobility and no way to survive condi-ganking without speccing heavily into it, usually taking extra vitality as well.
The reason most Guardians can’t survive spiking is because they suck. Even some idiot spamming blocks and Aegis can nullify a spike run. Condi-ganking is NOT spike damage, that’s sustained damage. That IS something Guardians have more problems with than spike damage.
Your post is indicative of the simple fact that Guardians have a very high threshold for using different build variations successfully in PVP. The reason most people aren’t successful with anything but a few builds? Because most people are just average or scrubs.
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I’m sure glad you’re not a game dev. Or, are you?
I don’t need to be a game dev to ensure that ‘hardcore’ gamers don’t get BiS gear because they can’t handle the game. Anet already does a good job.
As I’ve said, a good two-thirds of my guild is missing in action. Good Job!
Obviously your guild couldn’t handle a game focused on casual play. That’s the great thing about GW2 … 2/3 of your guild left. That’s not directly representative of the health of the game. As far as I’m concerned, the faster people that don’t agree with the fundamental concept and approach of the game leave …. the better. GW2 doesn’t depend on them for survival because people that don’t like something will be less likely to spend money on it. People that do like the game use gemstore. Simple.
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The labels aren’t helpful … they are originally intended to be insulting. Even PHIW doesn’t make much sense … who doesn’t do that?
No mounts are needed and I am increasingly confused by the constant insistence on them for a game that has smallish maps and waypoints.
A butterfly farted somewhere … that’s a good reason for mounts I heard.
Mounts would be cool.
I don’t know why are people so against it, I don’t really see where adding mounts would ruin anything and/or be so kittenome people make it believe. If anything it would just be another gemshop item for cosmetic porposes…\
Because realistic people know just how much time and resources this would take away from other content that is more relevant to the game. Mounts are a MUCH more complex feature than you can imagine. It’s not just some skin you add.
so what you are saying that anet spent years to make guild wars 2 and the map are smaller than guild wars 1 which I agreed with. Also saying that the mounts are too COMPLEX for anet to handle so we come to the conclusion that anet is a failure of what they do. that is what YOU are saying.
Obtena did not say Anet was a failure for not adding mounts to the game. Just that there are other things that are more important and relevant to the game. Anet adding a full blown mount system to the game ala WoW would take tons of dev time away from other things.
Besides that, if Anet were to ever add mounts to the game you can kitten well bet it will be in an expansion. That’s a feature you advertise to sell an expansion not something you put out there in a mini update. You can be 100% sure of that.
Yes, exactly what I am saying. There has to be a really kitten good reason to introduce something as significant as mounts into GW2 at this point. It’s not just going to happen to make RPer’s happy.
Problem with your argument is missing the first “slap”, which is joining the party that you clearly did not meet the requirements for. That is the cause. The effect is the kick/complaints.
No. Casuals were being treated negatively LONG before there was a way to communicate requirements for teaming via LFG. Nice try.
No mounts are needed and I am increasingly confused by the constant insistence on them for a game that has smallish maps and waypoints.
A butterfly farted somewhere … that’s a good reason for mounts I heard.
Mounts would be cool.
I don’t know why are people so against it, I don’t really see where adding mounts would ruin anything and/or be so kittenome people make it believe. If anything it would just be another gemshop item for cosmetic porposes…
\
Because realistic people know just how much time and resources this would take away from other content that is more relevant to the game. Mounts are a MUCH more complex feature than you can imagine. It’s not just some skin you add. It’s not about how awesome it would be or anything like that; it’s about if it fits the story, has some significant purpose AND if there is ROI for doing it.
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That article doesn’t have any insight to anything wrong with GW2. It’s more a self-loathing commentary on how someone didn’t live up to their own expectations as a ‘hardcore’ gamer.
I’m sure glad you’re not a game dev. Or, are you?
I don’t need to be a game dev to ensure that ‘hardcore’ gamers don’t get BiS gear because they can’t handle the game. Anet already does a good job.
Guardian is actually NOT in a “pretty good spot” right now.
Why? The first problem is that the base stats of a Guardian leave you in a spot where you cannot survive spike damage in any way, shape or form.
So Guardians, kings of blocks and Aegis, with lots of blinds access, have NO way to survive spike damage in any way, shape or form? YEAH, OK. Guardians are MORE than adequately provided for to prevent damage, especially burst.
Growing up, such a thing was unheard of in SW Ontario. I moved to Ottawa, it’s everywhere.
A related topic … I’m still on the fence for something like an orbweaver. CIrcle strafing for me is no possible with a keyboard/mouse layout. If the thumb joystick on the orbweaver can be programmed for cursor targetting, I’m home free.
Can anyone confirm is that’s the case?
Is Poutine even known outside of Quebec + neighbouring regions?
It wasn’t about the grind. It was about the fact that the grind for a precursor comes in the form of gold, which can be conveniently circumvented for hundreds of dollars. Personally I doubt precursors are implemented they way they are to bait people into gem-to-gold conversion, but I can absolutely understand why someone would get that impression.
That’s really still a rather stupid reason to quit a game IMO. There are three options to get something, someone doesn’t like one of those options, so they quit …. on an aesthetic item? That article doesn’t have any insight to anything wrong with GW2. It’s more a self-loathing commentary on how someone didn’t live up to their own expectations as a ‘hardcore’ gamer.
What about the professions that have no access to poison?
What about not running solo in group content, then wondering why a class is dificient in poison?
Can still end up not having poison in group content. Just sayin, its not on every build let alone every profession (4/8 if they even use it).
So, we nerf healing then? I don’t think so.
Respect other players and their wishes and they will probably respect yours.
Unfortunately, there are opposing values in some cases, so as much as that’s a good ideal, it can’t happen if two people team, one values time, the other values how they look and RPing while killing trash. There simply isn’t a way for someone who values time to respect the wishes of someone wanting to perform Shakespeare prose and vice versa.
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It’s funny seeing you people put this article down, because I read it and found myself nodding my head to a lot of it.
Putting it down because the perspective of a hardcore, experienced MMO player would NOT be to QQ about how hard it is to get a legendary …
Old dead games should be left to rot in their well deserved graves.
Maybe, but the point still stands …
It’s funny seeing you people put this article down, because I read it and found myself nodding my head to a lot of it.
Putting it down because the perspective of a hardcore, experienced MMO player would NOT be to QQ about how hard it is to get a legendary … and QUIT over it since it’s mostly just aesthetic. Sounds more like the credentials of a hardcore RPer.
Consider there are games a decade ago that most hardcore MMO players would have played where they literally had to raid for hundreds of hours to get a BiS bit of gear; a legendary pails in comparison to what any real hardcore, experienced player would have experienced.
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Maybe there is a test I can take because I don’t even know what those political affiliations represent ><
^^ Good example … that guy DESERVED the smart remark JS made to him because the question was intended to incite a disagreement. Unfortunately, seems that JS’s handlers will do anything to treat the most belligerent forumgoers nicely, including making JS eat crow.
Making them (the craftable ones) account bound will not mean they won’t affect the existing market.
Yes it will. You cant sell them. The only affect it will have is people who may have otherwise bought one will now be able to craft one instead.
I’d be willing to bet that if they allows crafting, it might even cost MORE to make one than it would to just buy existing ones. It’s not Anet’s goal to make legendaries easier for people to get.
If anything, I believe more posting from the Anet side on the forums will only bring out more of the vitriol in people that don’t get what they want. Aside from some very specific knowledge (I like how JS handles things), they shouldn’t say anything.
Certain someone is making me want to bash my head against a wall until either one of them breaks.
Don’t stop on account of that … PLEASE ;P
My problem with guardian is we are playing a game with limited character options, basically 10 skills 15 if you reckon weapon swap.
My Spirt Weapons are not viable for anything. Neither are our sigils.
This means that I don’t really have a lot of options when it comes to character design. I get bored with games that have no significant character design options.
Too many useless traits and too many useless skills.
It isn’t a matter of power. I am plenty powerful when running the right builds. Its a matter of only having about 4 builds worth running.
A lot of people complain a bout roaming. I would say, why bother? The skills Guardian has would be acceptable for roaming in other games. In this one though, some classes have so much mobility and invisibility that they can run around all day. I see no point to chasing after them. Until Anet does something to address the silliness of the many Nike builds (run away specialists) roaming will always be frustrating at best.
The problem is that Anet is not objective. They seem to constantly ignore the many flaws with the characters and the game as a whole.
I’m going to bump this because I feel the same, with the exception of the last statement. I’m not sure it’s objectivity that’s holding the devs back on improving the class but what I do see is alot of ‘trying too hard’ to make poor concepts work. Sometimes they get it right and it becomes interesting, but it’s never as good as what’s already being used and played … Anet isn’t bold/creative enough with their changes IMO.
It can’t last? It’s ‘lasted’ for 2 years!!! A player quit because they made an unreasonable goal for themselves … the game isn’t the problem there.
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What about the professions that have no access to poison?
What about not running solo in group content, then wondering why a class is dificient in poison?
Why on earth would a AH shout Guardian automatically gravitate to some of the most defensive armors in the game? OP doesn’t even explain what content he would use this gear in … really people!
OP, for your own sake, please explain to us what content you are doing and WHY you have chosen AH-shout build. There is not enough information here to suggest gear for you.
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all games that a) are teamgames and b) allow for a certain degree of customization/buildmaking have this.
I can assure you this isn’t the case, otherwise I wouldn’t have made the thread.
For example, I played Anarchy Online for 7 years. Despite it’s age, it has THE most complicated gearing system I have ever seen; Almost all the gear is skill required and those skills can be buffed in multiple ways. In addition, the content is still very difficult with raids from single team (6 people) to zones that require upwards 12 teams. to complete. Despite the wide variation and raids and difficulty (It’s actually easy to fail a raid there, even to this day) never once playing that game did someone tell me “Oh, your build isn’t correct” or kick someone for not having the right gear. Gear was a non factor in completion and was a significant portion in your overall stats (at least 50%).
So you can understand for me to go from that, to here and read all this ‘play this way’ stuff, astounds me.
If you can do better, why wouldn’t you?
Because what is ‘better’ depends on what a player values … some people don’t want to run dungeons in 6 minute speed runs, so doing more damage isn’t ‘better’ to them. This might be crazy but I’ve been in groups that actually kill the trash. For them, that IS better. I’ve teamed with people that CARE about how their armor looks … in that specific dungeon. Weird stuff, but it shows that what YOU value is not universal, so to expect a player to simply swap to ‘the best’ build isn’t actually as easy at you think it is.
Yes, it’s absolutely a thing with other MMOs. WoW is a different, but applicable example. People in raiding guilds were (and probably still are) expected to have BiS gear, consumables, have excellent rotations, situational awareness, and know the overly complex mechanics of very long dungeons. The biggest difference is that there were dps meters to tell how people were performing. If you didn’t make muster, you wouldn’t be asked back. It wasn’t even something you talked about. If you wanted to see the end game, you were expected to min/max.
OK, I can see that for WoW … but how that’s applicable to GW2. We don’t have damage meters. I’ve seen vids of people soloing content in the worst builds possible … is that done in WoW? GW2 isn’t that kind of game. It is truly ‘casual-friendly’. Why is it reasonable to have similar expectations for two completely different approaches to content?
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I’m glad I don’t live in China. These backpieces are another reason to add to that list.
I’ve been wondering this for a long time. Decided to get others opinions on it.
Are there other games out there where a subset of players insist on making others play a specific way to the aggressive degree we experience it here in GW2? I’ve played other lesser known games (not WoW) but I’ve never seen it to the degree where people are kicked from groups. Do other games have this that I’m just not familiar with? Perhaps it’s more common than I think? Why do we have this phenomenon?
I would have thought that the lack of trinity, method of loot distribution and non-competitive aspect of PVE would encourage the complete opposite. Boy, is that wrong.
I don’t think telling people they can’t use the LFG system the way they want really promotes tolerance. Why shoulnd’t people be able to use the LFG note to ask for like minded people and expect that type of person to join?
You’re right, it doesn’t but if people are so intolerant that they behave poorly in teams, what other option is there for them other than avoid it? Why shouldn’t people expect others to be reasonable? You would like to think they are but people aren’t really considerate. Even if you advertise, that’s no guarantee people put on their best behaviour before joining a team. That’s back to the original problem … if you PUG, you get who you get, regardless of whatever safeguards are put in place for team composition.
Your posts really haven’t done much other than try to place blame on an entire group of players for most of the wrong doing in the dungeon community.
I guess that’s one way to view it. Considering the topic is “Why people hate elitists so much?”, I don’t feel that my hypothesis is not inline with the topic. Sorry that’s not all puppies and pillows but it’s not an unreasonable hypothesis. Players with values not affected by how others play have no reason, and therefore, are more tolerant to others way of playing.
I think kicking is too rampant in this game, I hate kicking, but people who ignore LFG notes, or people who try to force their views onto a casual run are both IMO people who deserve the boot.
I agree but there does need to be some player approach to control their team composition.
What’s really amusing to me about GW2 in general is this is the first game I’ve played where some people are absolutely insistent on telling others how to play and aggressively acting on them when they don’t … is this a thing with other games? WoW? I dunno but the idea that I play like someone tells me to because it benefits them is … strange.
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That just illustrates the issue at hand. Both sides have their indiscretions; for the most part we have all acted in ways we may find regretful. There is no value in hammering on that aspect.
The real (useful) purpose of this thread is to recognize people aren’t aligned in values, won’t align in values, unreasonable to expect people to align in values and not necessary for people to align in values to play together. People need to have realistic expectations when PUGing and if so intolerant that they won’t accept that, remove themselves from PUG’s altogether. Unfortunately, as Cookie illustrates, this is not likely the best place for a message like this to be made.
Unfortunately, if a person can’t make a message like that here, why would any other place be more likely for it to be appropriate?
That’s why I deleted it … I realized I wasn’t being productive. Of course you bring it up here because your aim is a healthy, positive interaction.
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I still don’t disagree with that quote … you guys create the atmosphere … even encourage it. It was also 6 months ago, and deleted, recognizing my error. You knock down a wall, I threw a brick. You don’t take your refuge seriously, why should anyone else, including Anet either? Threads like this kick up the dirt a bit. I’m here to make some people think a little. Sorry I guess.
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Frankly, this sub-forum shouldn’t be a refuge for people to act poorly, mock others, etc … just because they are discouraged from doing it in other subforums. I could care less how badly it ends. It’s no different than the Guardian forums … It’s been ‘cleaned up’ and people play together there pretty nicely now … even without agreement all the time. Funny that people complain this area is ignored by Anet … you wonder why.
I think I made some reasonable points. Some people whose values are affected by others created the atmosphere learned by other dungeon runners. I’m suggesting that it’s why they get received negatively, whether it’s true/false, deserved or not. That’s the thread topic. I think the whole point of the thread was to incite bu the OP, but there is some value in reflection and analysis here.
I’m not speaking in absolutes here. Are there tolerant elitists? Yeah. Are there intolerant PHIW? Yeah.
I think what is missing here is recognizing that there are certain values that people hold that impact their actions. OK, that’s abstract:
If you value your time ingame, it’s fair to say you want to do things as fast as possible, so you likely adopted DPS only approach in PVE. You team with people but they don’t necessarily value their time as much as you do. It’s likely the guy who values his time is not happy.
The more that people value time, the more they are affected by other players. They are more likely to act on that intolerance than someone who’s values are NOT affected by other players. It’s not a hard concept to understand but it could be difficult to accept if you happen to value time or some other value that is affected by other players.
You’re right, I agree
So where does that take us? Where are we going now that you’ve established this?
I don’t have a good answer to that. How does segregation and it’s practices end? Can players be convinced their values don’t matter? Clearly not. Is this really even a problem? If it is, I think it’s for players to work it out the solution. Personally, I think the approach Obal has (at least in the forum) is the right one. Educating people on the mechanics is important. That message doesn’t get to everyone ingame though.
Don’t you consider it intolerant (or at least wrong) to join parties where you aren’t clearly wanted?
People doing that aren’t tolerating wishes of other people.
It is wrong. I don’t believe that’s intolerant, it’s inconsiderate.
I’m not speaking in absolutes here. Are there tolerant elitists? Yeah. Are there intolerant PHIW? Yeah.
I think what is missing here is recognizing that there are certain values that people hold that impact their actions. OK, that’s abstract:
If you value your time ingame, it’s fair to say you want to do things as fast as possible, so you likely adopted DPS only approach in PVE. You team with people but they don’t necessarily value their time as much as you do. It’s likely the guy who values his time is not happy.
The more that people value time, the more they are affected by other players. They are more likely to act on that intolerance than someone who’s values are NOT affected by other players. It’s not a hard concept to understand but it could be difficult to accept if you happen to value time or some other value that is affected by other players.
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How do you know that they started it?
Because people who believe in playing how they want don’t care what builds people use.
Take a second and re-evaluate that statement. ANYONE can be the culprit of this if you’re using that logic and who is to say that the “evil kitten elitists” were they ones that started this movement? Was it recorded in video game history, can you find the source? Did the Prophet state this in his/her teachings?
It’s not a stretch of the imagination to think that people who play a wider range of builds are more tolerant to other people that play a wider range of builds than people that preach “only DPS” approach to PVE. It’s HIGHLY unlikely that the practice of kicking people from teams started with a random bunch of people playing non-DPS optimized builds.
Further evidence is just historical forum posts. Mocking people, discussions in Guardian forum, etc… it’s pretty evident of who are the tolerant people and who are not. I don’t think my hypothesis is all that far from what happened. If a person is intolerant, they are more likely to act on intolerance than someone that is tolerant. Some DPS-only PVE people don’t come across as the most tolerant bunch from what I can see ingame and in the forums. Is that so unreasonable to make that connection?
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Again that’s an assumption.
And it’s a good one too. I don’t see posts complaining that people aren’t using the builds they want. I DO see posts from people complaining of people who don’t use full DPS are selfish, noobs, etc.. Intolerance from a specific group.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
How do you know that they started it?
Because people who believe in playing how they want don’t care what builds people use.