No, you can’t lose money you never had from an activity you never did.
You’re debating game economics but you don’t even know what opportunity cost is.
You can’t debate at all if you don’t understand the definition of ‘loss’.
NO one has ever lost money farming and selling their goods. The investment to farm is the lowest for any gold making activity, the return for selling goods is something more than this. Unless someone is an imbecile, the return on the goods farmed is greater than the investment. If anyone attempts to farm and loses money, I question their ability to play the game at all. This game is designed for people to make money farming because it is the fundamental entry point for making gold.
Wow………just wow………….
There were so many legitimate counters to that, but that was not one of them. Take a look what Smooth said right after you.
I did … it’s not a ‘COST’ for me to choice one way to MAKE money over another. Opportunity cost is being thrown around like a catch all. It’s a very nice, interesting and ACADEMIC discussion. You can argue pedantics if you like. I’m past that. The fixation on how I’ve somehow missed it is a diversion from the nonsensical statement that was made indicating that players don’t control the market.
well the biggest flaw in the whole market self balance idea, is it depends on people creating supply purposefully, which by and large doesnt happen in this game.
Let me bring people back to this. It’s wrong and it’s fundamental to many of the ideas being held by alot of the people that cry about how disadvantaged everyone is because of the TP. People create supply every time they open a bag or farm a node. That is PURPOSEFUL intent and if you are a particularly adept farmer, you can actually target a specific material to obtain while farming to maximize your return for your time farming.
The fact you make more gold doing something else that isn’t farming is completely removed from the fact that players DO control the market; there is no flaw in a market that is dictated by the willingness of players to supply those that create demand. If it wasn’t for a handful of interventions and influencing statements from Anet, it would actually be 100% controlled by players activities and actions.
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What we know is that the demand for Dusk is high enough to support the current prices. This is because of the wardrobe system and the recent upgrade of Eternity’s graphic effects. More people want Twilight/Eternity and therefore there are more people trying to outspend each other.
This is a natural consequence of changes that were made to the game, not manipulation. If players say “1500g for a precursor is too much” then Dusk would not be selling at that price. Yes, that means if someone is willing to spend more money than you, or has more money to spend than you, then you will not get the item. Anet can do nothing about this, it is purely the result of the willingness of players to spend more money than everyone else.
anet designed an item with a means of obtaining it that is only marketed to those who can make the most as you say, which means dusk is a rich mans weapon until the rich get bored with it.
as the differnce in wealth grows, so to will the attainability of this item for the non wealthy.
… and no one has demonstrated this is a problem. I’m going to speculate that this is likely the way Legendary weapons should have always been through Anet’s concept. You’re reinforcing the intent with your observations.
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Clearly, if you are thinking that Anet is going to introduce a more ‘raid-earn gear’ approach that most other MMO’s have, it’s going to have a VERY limited impact since it would take a tremendous effort to seed content with all the different skins that exist. So much so that I would say at this point, you can forget about ‘earning’ your favourite existing skins as raid drops.
Even with the game status now, we are not completely devoid of gear limited to specific encounters (Aether skins, champ skins, etc… ) so what people are asking for (and QQing about) is happening, just not 100%.
No, you can’t lose money you never had from an activity you never did.
You’re debating game economics but you don’t even know what opportunity cost is.
You can’t debate at all if you don’t understand the definition of ‘loss’.
NO one has ever lost money farming and selling their goods. The investment to farm is the lowest for any gold making activity, the return for selling goods is something more than this. Unless someone is an imbecile, the return on the goods farmed is greater than the investment. If anyone attempts to farm and loses money, I question their ability to play the game at all. This game is designed for people to make money farming because it is the fundamental entry point for making gold.
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you lose money farming silk, if you would have made more money farming something else.
No, you can’t lose money you never had from an activity you never did. What you want to say is that you make more money doing an activity that gives you more valuable mats. You don’t LOSE money farming, ever. Even the most worthless item can be sold for money, exceeding your cost of farming, which is a couple of WP costs. You might think that’s just arguing a pedantic point but that distinction is important because your being purposefully misleading by telling people they lose money even though farming is the least risky and cost free activity you can do to earn gold.
What you don’t realize is that if people who are farming go off and ‘not lose’ money doing other activities, that’s less mats in the market … I won’t go into how that would impact the price of those mats because you still don’t understand you can’t lose money farming.
What you consider worth farming or not isn’t relevant but the fact you seem to think farming is a waste of time sows you lack of understanding of the market, how players impact supply and demand, it’s affect on prices and finally, how farmers optimize their money-making opportunities.
The self-regulating aspect that players have on the market isn’t flawed because demand affects price. Farming is lucrative for those people paying attention to those signals. To suggest this is completely out of the control of players shows a significant lack of understanding for this aspect of the game. If I see linen is at 8s … I know EXACTLY where to go to farm it. Any good farmer does.
you are missing the point.
the point is that most materials are supplied unintentionally.
i already explained how this works, but you dont really understand so there is not much more i can tell you.
I’m not missing it, I’m ignoring it because it’s not relevant. Unintentional or not, the market is self balanced by players supplying to those that want materials. The market is intrinsically balanced because of supply and demand. A clever farmer observes how this affects prices, farms and sells accordingly to maximize their returns.
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you lose money farming silk, if you would have made more money farming something else.
No, you can’t lose money you never had from an activity you never did. What you want to say is that you make more money doing an activity that gives you more valuable mats. You don’t LOSE money farming, ever. Even the most worthless item can be sold for money, exceeding your cost of farming, which is a couple of WP costs. You might think that’s just arguing a pedantic point but that distinction is important because your being purposefully misleading by telling people they lose money even though farming is the least risky and cost free activity you can do to earn gold.
What you don’t realize is that if people who are farming go off and ‘not lose’ money doing other activities, that’s less mats in the market … I won’t go into how that would impact the price of those mats because you still don’t understand you can’t lose money farming.
What you consider worth farming or not isn’t relevant but the fact you seem to think farming is a waste of time sows you lack of understanding of the market, how players impact supply and demand, it’s affect on prices and finally, how farmers optimize their money-making opportunities.
The self-regulating aspect that players have on the market isn’t flawed because demand affects price. Farming is lucrative for those people paying attention to those signals. To suggest this is completely out of the control of players shows a significant lack of understanding for this aspect of the game. If I see linen is at 8s … I know EXACTLY where to go to farm it. Any good farmer does.
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you get silk drops from supply bags, you get while salvaging. If you decide you want to be a silk farmer, you will actually lose money as a farmer.
There is NO way I can ever lose money purposefully farming a specific item, even if I don’t get any of that specific item while attempting to farm it due to the fact that I’m highly likely to obtain other materials I can sell to recoup whatever costs (waypoint cost) I spend to make a farming attempt. Only in very specific scenarios where a person have to act stupidly where farming would result in losing money.
people cannot meet supply intentionally, which means in the path of getting say valuable silk, you create a whole bunch of worthless leather.
People can and do create supply intentionally if they feel the price they will get for the items warrant the effort to do so. The fact a farmer generates leather while farming silk doesn’t prevent them from intentionally trying to farm silk and sell it to meet demand. It’s simply demonstrated every time someone buys silk from the TP. That is demand being filled by supply, regardless of what other mats were generated in the process for creating the materials being sold.
Supply and demand are most definitely the driving factors behind the market in GW2. It’s can’t possibly be any other way. Players are most definitely part of system that determines what items are supplied and demanded in the game through the activities they do. Saying they aren’t is just silly.
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well the biggest flaw in the whole market self balance idea, is it depends on people creating supply purposefully, which by and large doesnt happen in this game.
WTF! OF course this happens … I can guarentee that if the demand on an item spikes, more people do go out of their way to supply it. Just because there are people that continue to supply and item when demand is less doesn’t mean the market behaves in a way that doesn’t balance itself. The market behaves in a classic ‘supply/demand’ manner, so clearly people are taking advantage of increasing supply with demand if they think it’s worth it.
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I’m rather pleased with the resurgence of interest for burning in PVP. My own testing has indicated increased success with my burning PVP build (sig is not up to date). My targeted opponents melt faster and there is a minimal impact to my own survival. IMO, the burning changes were the right direction. Now, PVE on the other hand …
actually it costs more to ride to California then to fly there, gas isn’t free you know.
The point here is that people are complaining about something that they CHOOSE to do based on a desire to own a luxury item. No one needs a BL skin, so QQing about the cost is obtuse.
There is enough anecdotal evidence to show there are issues with the RNG.
Argument fails right there. At any given moment there are tens of thousands of people, at least, playing this game. “Look at these twelve people, this proves RNG is broken,” doesn’t even begin to offer enough data to do anything.
actually random samples are a method of statistics as well, when your random sample shows info not consistent with what you expect you then begin a more detailed analysis, QC of many products work like this.
Anyhow even if one can claim anectdotal evidence may be invalid, its a lot more valid than 0 data.
The randomization itself is not enough to guarantee representation; randomizing allows you to avoid impacts that would bias your results. The size of the sample gives a level of confidence that the results from your sample is indicative of your population.
For example, I can pick, at random, 1 player who happens to be the extreme case for gold eraning. This would not be indicative of the population. It seems to me that the point being made here is that anecdotal evidence is indeed a bad indicator of RNG; I agree because we don’t need anecdotal evidence when people have already quantified drop rates for precursors using MF.
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Sure I have the choice between flying to California and riding my bike to California…no one is FORCING me to spend my money on airfare afterall, but I’m pretty sure I know which option I’d choose.
So you acknowledge you have similar options on the TP to get items you don’t need. It’s a good first step.
I could never really figure this out from observation so perhaps someone can provide an answer.
Scenario – I have 50% duration increase and using VoJ in passive mode. My burn will last 1.5 seconds. Let’s say I can get another burn stack from passive VoJ within the 1.5 second window.
Do I get three ticks of burning because the total stack duration is 3 seconds or just 2 ticks because I ‘lose’ the half seconds from each stacked burn? I’m thinking it’s probably just two ticks. Can anyone confirm?
Just don’t max it … I’m willing to bet that casual play with no salvaging greens/blues will take a year or two to go from 290% to 300%. I’m also willing to bet that this max value get expanded in the future.
And how do you stop Real Money Traders to exploit this feature for funneling gold through the tp?
they can mail it to people….why would they need to?
Anet monitors large gold sums being sent by mail.
if they can monitor that then they can monitor the TP, dont worry about the gold sellers they have plenty of ways to catch them and the TP is already a way to transfer money, honestly i see “oooh what about the gold sellers” as the excuse of TP bosses who dont want this done because they thrive on destoying the economy.
They can monitor the mail because there is no exchange. The TP is not the same. Besides, assuming they would put resources towards this is presumptuous. Just because it could be done doesn’t make it a good idea.
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Lol no it’s not. It’s always easier to just swipe your credit card if your time has any value at all. Sure, some if the content may be fun but it is so unrewarding that the time investment isn’t worth it.
Just because you can buy content doesn’t mean game is not rewarding. In fact, the idea that you can play the game to get shop items is proof in the rewards related to playing the game itself. If you don’t think the time investment to be rewarded playing the game is worth it … WTH are you doing here? Another doomsday prophet?
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If playing this game were rewarding then the OP wouldn’t have felt compelled to use the cash shop in the first place. The fact that the shop even has these RNG gambles is highly unethical.
The game is rewarding … he can purchase anything he wants in the cash stop using rewards from the game.
Guardian is a little stale for me when I stick to simple weapon rotations as my sole source of damage. GS and Mace are the most interesting gameplay and when I combine them with burning and spirit weapons. These extra elements give alot of things going on to keep more interest and the flow moving. Killing trash leveling is more about stacking damage effects than optimizing DPS, so I’m not surprised people find leveling boring if they are listening to the minmaxers for build advice.
These don’t tend to be accepted builds for dungeons but it’s more interesting than timing weapon swaps between GS and sword to optimize DPS. Unless your leveling with dungeons, your choices only affect you.
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also reward for being smart? if you read my previous post to Wanze you would know that there is no intelligence smarts or reserach in what I do on tp but yet I am pretty rewarded…would be even more if I did put some actual research and work into it but who cares I’m lazy
Using only yourself as the barometer to gauge the ‘easy’ aspect of the TP is self-fulfilling and biased. It’s actually not that relevant or representative. TP does reward people relative to how much effort they put into it, even if your own experience is not indicative. This is especially evident by the fact that if it’s as easy as you claim, no one should be complaining about getting any single endgame item; just take anyone, they click a button with zero thought on the TP, make gold and buy their endgame setup … that’s not reality.
As for the TP vs. economy debate; TP is the single tool to access the economy. People use them interchangeably because of how closely they are related. I do this as well. Perhaps I shouldn’t but your point is pedantic … what I said is still relevant, even though my terminology is not completely accurate.
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I read your whole post and despite the complete lack of sentence structure and poor punctuation, I understood what you are saying makes no sense. I will quote the key part again since you seem to be losing your focus:
it shouldnt be possible to shorten your work, time or whatever spent on getting those things by half or more just by smartly interacting with the tpand economy,
The TP is the standard, intended approach for exchanging goods for gold and vice verse to craft stuff you want. Therefore, arguments that TP should be nerfed in some way based on statements that it’s an unintended fast track to some other alternative method is nonsense.
Even on it’s own, you’re statement is hard to believe: You don’t think that people who work to understand and use the TP in a highly efficient and intelligent manner should be be rewarded moreso than a person who does not? Your statement points to the same problem with all the QQ threads on these forums; people that associate fairness with equality. Those things are not the same.
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but my point still stays that it shouldnt be possible to shorten your work, time or whatever spent on getting those things by half or more just by smartly interacting with the tpand economy,
by half or more compared to what? That’s the part of your argument that doesn’t make sense. Of course you can imagine a scenario where it take a much longer time to get your endgame gear by 100% farming all the mats … hence the EXISTENCE of gold/mats/TP to speed this up; obviously a feature of the game INTENDED by Anet to do this as they know full well how their rewards system works ingame.
You speak like the TP is some fasttrack opposed to the intended approach of farming mats to get your stuff. It is not, the exchange of goods and gold on the TP is the obviously standard approach. If it was not, then most if not all mats would not be tradeable. Clearly, how we are rewarded ingame and the TP go hand in hand.
TP doesn’t make it possible to lessen your work for gear; TP makes it possible to get your gear with the intended amount of resources.
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I don’t think it helps to insult people because they don’t agree with you. Your idea is another solution looking for a problem. If you want to pay more for the goods than they are worth on the TP because of a moral crusade, just make the appropriate buy orders.
… my problem is I’m only rich because of the TP, everything I get through normal gameplay is worth nothing…partly because of the TP…so the casual players who dont trade on tp for profit are in far worse position than me
Your claim doesn’t make much sense because you aren’t qualified to judge the position that others are with respect to yourself; that’s an individual, self assessment. It’s really easy to claim that someone ‘far worse off’ than you but if the players you are referring to don’t care or don’t agree with your assessment, it’s rather meaningless.
I can understand you may dislike the fact that you have to exchange goods with players to get gold and the variation that people get in selling price indicates people are not always getting best value. What I don’t understand is where this becomes a problem; it’s a very fair system that allows people the potential to sell or buy for any amount THEY CHOOSE.
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What you fail to recognize is that the way the game works actually caters to everyone, even the most casual player. Loot rewards don’t work for people that don’t play often or can’t commit to game schedules. That is why his argument is completely valid; What he’s saying is that unlike ‘loot reward’ games, you can do what you like and earn what you want doing it.
You don’t seem to get what motivates people to play the game and do the things they do. Jumping puzzle people get rewards; there is a chest at the end of almost every puzzle; the best PVPers also get rewarded in more ways than just gold. YTour examples aren’t very well thought out.
Your complaint seems misdirected: You seem unhappy with how rewards are given in the game; TP has nothing to do with that. ;
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Yeah I hear you. These aren’t easy problems … they are almost easier to solve with brute force; pick many points within the constrained space, solve the simplified equation for each point, find the vector that results in the highest number for equation … Repeat, picking vectors ‘correctly’ around the initial max vector and see if you can do better.
What I’m REALLY interested in is being able to maximize the following:
Effectiveness Rating (E) = aO x bD
It’s similar to your equation on page 8 but I added a and b as parameters. You have already shown the case for a = 1, b=0 (the full offensive case). I don’t think it’s a stretch to see that the a = 0, b = 1 is probably based on VIT/tou/pow gear.
What has real value to me is a case where a = b = 0.5; a situation where I tend to swap depending on the capability of the team. I suspect that’s probably a complex mixture of different types of gear. I’ve got some estimates for what I think is close but I would like to see how close I am to the theory. Yours is the most methodical approach I have seen so far.
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“We’ve added some new skins/items to the game. We know you’d enjoy actually earning them through various in game feats of skill/intelligence/perseverance, but we’re going to save you the trouble of actually playing the game. Use your credit card to buy gems, and you can obtain the new items instantly! Isn’t that fun? Aren’t you glad we did this?”
TY ANet for making a shop instead of a game.
Disgusting.
So, do you find the concept of choice disgusting, or do you find your own weak-willed-ness that leads to you buying things when you could have played for them instead disgusting?
I like how you deliberately stayed away from the “earn it through in game feats” part.
But you can earn them from game feats because you can purchase gems with gold. Thank you, come again.
Grinding money through repetitive daily checkbox tasks to use at the shops is not the same as earning an item for completing content aka chests or drops or achievement etc.
I didn’t say it was but if you are after a specific item, you aren’t earning it directly as a drops or achievement reward anyways so I don’t see how what you said is relevant to the discussion. Whether you get gold directly from an event or your get an item you sell, it all comes down to earning gold through some means. Let’s not convince ourselves we get usable loot from drops. Hardly ever happens and has no meaning to the fact that you can buy gems to get access to gear in the store.
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Sorry,. going to bump this.
Can the OP comment on what method was used to solve the constrained optimization problem you get for the simplified Offensive equation?
Without making a math text out of this paper, it would be valuable to mention how you did it. I’ve limited knowledge but it doesn’t appear you can use Lagrange Multipliers or Linear Programming because the equation you are solving for has a quadratic term in it; when you expand out the Simplified Offensive equation, you have a precision*ferocity term.
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“We’ve added some new skins/items to the game. We know you’d enjoy actually earning them through various in game feats of skill/intelligence/perseverance, but we’re going to save you the trouble of actually playing the game. Use your credit card to buy gems, and you can obtain the new items instantly! Isn’t that fun? Aren’t you glad we did this?”
TY ANet for making a shop instead of a game.
Disgusting.
So, do you find the concept of choice disgusting, or do you find your own weak-willed-ness that leads to you buying things when you could have played for them instead disgusting?
I like how you deliberately stayed away from the “earn it through in game feats” part.
But you can earn them from game feats because you can purchase gems with gold. Thank you, come again.
Getting back on topic, precursors are expensive because they are rare items, with methods of obtaining them that are fairly random, so most people who dont like gambling have to buy them. They inflate fast, because they are the goal people aim for. No price is too high to achieve your goal (in a game) for many people. And people in the precursor market know this.
I won’t argue how much truth is in this but I will reiterate that a precursor is not out of reach for someone that makes it a goal to get one. It’s simply a matter of time. If a player can’t earn the gold to make that purchase because they don’t play enough or earn enough, you have to question whether or not that’s a reasonable goal for them to have a precursor or any endgame gear for that matter in the first place.
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Some people just don’t care … and the game shouldn’t be putting safety nets in place for them either. TP is not the cause of this.
the tp has to be more creative because there are not real world forces.
The initial and minimal effort that a player needs to put forth to learn how the TP works shouldn’t be forced on them by Anet through the TP. Real world forces or not, TP doesn’t need to be more creative to save people that can’t be bothered to save themselves.
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I enjoyed how through your paper is and the combination of all that information in one place is really good. Having someone go through the math and theory is alot better than just taking someone’s word for it. Thanks for all that. I wouldn’t bypass anything but the faster you can get to condition damage, the better. I’ve got my own little pocket of work on that matter but I want to see if other thinking aligns with it.
Some people just don’t care … and the game shouldn’t be putting safety nets in place for them either. TP is not the cause of this.
That is on par with many other TP profits. thats comparable to many peoples best hustles.
Then what is the problem here? If profits flipping a ‘ANYTHING’ is comparable to a precursor flip, then why should anyone be concerned about flipping precursors but not other things? Why is the focus of a much larger concern being limited to precursors … The reason is that people are just jealous and feel entitled. No one complains when iron ore is flipped for 200% but …….. a precursor at 27%!!!! OMG!!!!! WTHBBQ!!!
There is a consistent theme with the con-TP posts: EQUALITY. That’s why the con-TP position is a failing one … it’s based on the premise that something is unfair because it’s unequal. The reality is that the fairness is based on access, which everyone has.
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I don’t think that’s an honest assessment. The stuff in the shop doesn’t compete with the stuff that drops through gameplay so that association doesn’t make sense.
In addition, the stuff that drops through gameplay can be converted in to gold to buy the stuff in the shop … so I would say the people that resent the shop aren’t being honest on how the shop impacts their gaming.
It very much is an honest assessment. When one sees very little being added to the game available to gameplay
Your perception needs adjustment because very few MMO’s have the frequency Anet does on updates and content. Then again, if you want a monthly fee and patches twice a year … there are lots of other MMO’s that are doing that if you think what you are seeing in GW2 is not enough for you.
Just to be clear, your claim is that the content from the TP is ‘better’ than the content you get from the game updates like living story, etc… and that’s a reason people don’t like the TP?
Maybe I’m just crazy but I would say the bi-weekly updates that we were getting ingame for living story, etc… are above and beyond the total sum of convenience and fashion items one can get in the TP.
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The funny part of this thread is that the OP is suggesting a fix to something that I’m willing to be is an INTENTIONAL FEATURE of the TP. I doubt highly that Anet decided to implement the TP as it is without realizing people can undercut.
Like has been said … solutions to non-problems, or more accurately, solutions to intended features which aren’t not solutions at all … just a new methods imagined and short sighted to satisfy angry people. Either way, a waste of breath.
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I don’t think that’s an honest assessment. The stuff in the shop doesn’t compete with the stuff that drops through gameplay so that association doesn’t make sense.
In addition, the stuff that drops through gameplay can be converted in to gold to buy the stuff in the shop … so I would say the people that resent the shop aren’t being honest on how the shop impacts their gaming.
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Consider Necro as well. I won’t give specific builds but the ingredients for a condition buff on crit build with the right sigils is probably quite good and doesn’t lock you into Scepter play either.
It’s pushing me further and further away from the game as well.
It’s not fun anymore.
I don’t understand why.
1. You don’t need anything from Store to play
2. If you DO want something from store, you can buy it with RL money OR ingame gold.
3. It’s existence is transparent to you if you don’t use it
4. It allows you to play for free, even if you don’t use it or like it. (all the people that use the store are subsidizing your playtime OR curbing inflation by removing gold from the game.)
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It’s just as, and more, stupid than I depict it. If you have that much money to throw around, there are far more profitable things to waste it on than some notion of controlling precursor prices. It’s as idiotic and stupid as the idea someone’s controlling the prices of legendaries, or iron ore.
what about it is idiotic? As long as you make money, its worthwhile. if you give up 500 gold, and make 4000 gold, over the course of two weeks, thats 250 gold extra a day. You also have to realize that the theoretical player wouldnt just be doing this, they would be doing other things as well, since the market has limits on what you can do within a specific market, the way to make more money is to hit other markets.
I see that you think its foolish on general principle, but i see no actual reasoning or data that says why its foolish. Its actually pretty common business strategy to buy out your competition to control more of the market.
now, i could see someone saying they dont think it would be easy to pull off, or that if they do pull it off, it means that the precursor prices were undervalued, but that doesnt mean it doesnt make sense.
It was explained quite clearly what it was idiotic …. speculating on precursors has a higher risk/reward ratio than other items on the TP. See here …
It’s just as, and more, stupid than I depict it. If you have that much money to throw around, there are far more profitable things to waste it on than some notion of controlling precursor prices. It’s as idiotic and stupid as the idea someone’s controlling the prices of legendaries, or iron ore.
^^
There are many other ways to make 400g with 200g initial investment within 3 weeks, so why spend your gold on precursors? It just makes no sense at all.
The point is NOT that people have no fun anymore while playing Guild Wars 2 or the Economy Simulator which is called Trading Post. The point is that the Game itself doesn’t satisfy. This is a difference.
Diablo 3, Skyrim, Dark Souls 2 and so on. In these games you can only achieve something if you play the game. And when you reach your aim, it is absolutely satisfying. In Guild Wars 2 it’s different.
That sounds like the same thing to me. If you aren’t having fun, how is that different than the game not satisfying you? That’s the whole purpose for gaming isn’kitten To have fun?
Regardless, You can achieve something if you play GW2 as well, so your claim that GW2 is different from other games you ‘play to achieve something’ is nonsense. Loot is a direct result of playing. If there are inbalances in rewards for getting loot, that’s by player’s personal choice/preferences since there is no mechanic ingame limiting the content players have access to.
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Here’s the problem. You claimed absolutes. “All content” and “guarantee”. Does all content guarantee one?
Well first we need to look at what “all content” encompasses. All being an absolute ecompasses every possible bit of content the game has to offer. This includes things like trading as well things such as roleplaying. I think you can see where I am going with this. Things like averages do not matter in this context.
Well, if you’re being pedantic just to argue instead of looking at the spirit of what’s being said …. then I will just roll my eyes at you and let you win. Have fun.
So people are now complaining to anet why they cant afford a luxury item.
Why not complain to your government why you can’t afford to buy a helicopter?
When it comes to “Entitlement”, anything can turn into a legitimate complaint.
Except when you buy a game there is some legitimate entitlement to actually experience the entire game. MMOs break that mold a bit, but it’s not entirely unexpected.
You can experience the entire game. You don’t need specialized gear to do it either.
so no they do not control inflation in this case
There is no ‘single item case’ for controlling inflation. Inflation describes an effect on the whole economy and we have seen multiple instances where Anet takes action that affects how it evolves. What you are referring to on precursors is not inflation, it’s simply the rise in price due to higher demand.
… and yes, you can earn enough gold doing whatever you want to beat that as well because 1) it doesn’t increase forever and 2) it’s a matter of time.
It’s really not relevant anyways. The thread is about TP killing the game for people. It does no such thing. If people weren’t so ignorant, they would realize how much it helps them get good value for their goods.
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All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.
In no possible way is this factual.
Of course it is. You earn gold doing content, you buy precursors with gold. Therefore, you can get a precursor if you do enough content. Is your belief so unrelenting you won’t even acknowledge truth?
so you need to be earning enough gold to beat inflation,
So you don’t think the average person’s earning can beat inflation? Based on your only speculation of course …. I’m going to pull you back to reality.
Anet understands that the game’s success requires the TP to work for everyone. As we have already seen numerous times, we know they will step in when they have to make corrections and the sum of these things affects the factors that influence inflation.
So yes what I said is true because the success of the game depends on Anet having some oversight on the economy, and this includes inflation.
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All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.
In no possible way is this factual.
Of course it is. You earn gold doing content, you buy precursors with gold. Therefore, you can get a precursor if you do enough content. Is your belief so unrelenting you won’t even acknowledge truth?
(edited by Obtena.7952)
All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.
Sure you can get a legendary weapon from just doing wurm everyday, which probably take a few years, assuming he don’t spend any money. But it just isnt’ effective. If he spent those 200 hours doing something else, he probably have a legendary already.
If ‘effective’ is a factor, you’re just after gold, then you obviously choose the most ‘effective’ reward path; content doesn’t matter to you.
If content does matter to people, they do content they enjoy; then ‘effective’ doesn’t matter. I really don’t get it … people are complaining that they have to do content they like MORE OFTEN to earn the same reward than content they hate LESS OFTEN.
WUT?
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Maybe if you can emphasize on the world unfairness, you can understand why people are complaining.
You’re being unrealistic here. The rewards are structured in a way that makes them fair because every single person has access to every activity in the game; almost completely independent of gear or skill as well. So really, even the most incompetent player can get anything they want if they make their goal and spent the time needed to achieve it. The only barrier to being rewarded in the game by doing whatever you want, how you want to …. is you. Their isn’t some game mechanic that stops you from taking advantage of these methods or earning gold while playing how you want. You’re simply not recognizing that earning whatever you want in this game is up to you and is a matter of time only.
I just dont’ understand why they make the TP game much more rewarding than the other part of the game Or why it should be.
… because you don’t understand that the things that reward players are individual preference. GW2 actually rewards players very well over a wide range of activities. This is because the rewards a player gets from doing ANY activity they choose can be used to get anything they want to have. It’s simply a matter of time. There are very few rewards in this game that are regulated to specific activities and the ones that are (dungeon tokens for instance) are guaranteed to the point where you know exactly how many times a dungeon needs to be done to get them. This is possibly the best reward structure in an MMO I have ever experienced.
I’m not forced to do anything I don’t want to do, and I can get anything I want. I’m also not being left in the dust for endgame gear because I’m a casual player. Anyone that complains about this rewards structure is being obtuse. If people can’t recognize the freedom this system provides to a wide variety of players, they simply haven’t moved on from archaic reward structures from other MMO’s.
It’s just silly. That’s the the Vanilla Wow argument. Oh pvp can battleground 10 hours a day for a year and still not get the best gear, while molten core players can play 4 hours a week for a few month and get the best gear.
I’m not sure what your point is … I haven’t played WoW and I’m not familiar with how it’s reward system works. I don’t see the connection between someone playing for a year and never getting gear is related to what I have said at all … I am in fact saying the opposite because of how the GW2 rewards are structured; The rewards you get doing anything in GW2 can go towards buying anything. Therefore, people can’t complain they aren’t able to get stuff if they haven’t put the time in to earn it doing any of the content available in the game. Care to try again or are you simply dismissive at this point because you have nothing?
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Maybe if you can emphasize on the world unfairness, you can understand why people are complaining.
You’re being unrealistic here. The rewards are structured in a way that makes them fair because every single person has access to every activity in the game; almost completely independent of gear or skill as well. So really, even the most incompetent player can get anything they want if they make their goal and spent the time needed to achieve it. The only barrier to being rewarded in the game by doing whatever you want, how you want to …. is you. Their isn’t some game mechanic that stops you from taking advantage of these methods or earning gold while playing how you want. You’re simply not recognizing that earning whatever you want in this game is up to you and is a matter of time only.
I just dont’ understand why they make the TP game much more rewarding than the other part of the game Or why it should be.
… because you don’t understand that the things that reward players are individual preference. GW2 actually rewards players very well over a wide range of activities. This is because the rewards a player gets from doing ANY activity they choose can be used to get anything they want to have. It’s simply a matter of time. There are very few rewards in this game that are regulated to specific activities and the ones that are (dungeon tokens for instance) are guaranteed to the point where you know exactly how many times a dungeon needs to be done to get them. This is possibly the best reward structure in an MMO I have ever experienced.
I’m not forced to do anything I don’t want to do, and I can get anything I want. I’m also not being left in the dust for endgame gear because I’m a casual player. Anyone that complains about this rewards structure is being obtuse. If people can’t recognize the freedom this system provides to a wide variety of players, they simply haven’t moved on from archaic reward structures from other MMO’s.
(edited by Obtena.7952)