Guild Wars 2

Kagato.4061:

Oozo.7856:

Kagato.4061:

I’ll give you guys all a helpful tip:

If you have a crap ton of confusion stacked on you, don’t attack.

And don’t defend either. Don’t heal, don’t dodge roll (if you have a trait on dodge). Just don’t do anything.

How does that work out for you when you have a thief on you as well?

Well, I generally don’t engage in battles when it’s me vs two other people, especially when it’s a Mesmer and Thief, haha.

So, it’s not just as simple as “don’t attack” then. Got it.

Kagato.4061:

I’ll give you guys all a helpful tip:

If you have a crap ton of confusion stacked on you, don’t attack.

And don’t defend either. Don’t heal, don’t dodge roll (if you have a trait on dodge). Don’t use CC. Just don’t do anything.

How does that work out for you when you have a thief on you as well?

People still haven’t gotten to the point where they exploit high confusion stacks with epidemic necros. Just wait.

MRA.4758:

If I were a software developer (fun fact: I am, but not with ANet) I would do my own research on how my product is doing.

This should be done, of course. But ignoring other sources of input and feedback is nothing short of arrogance and pride. There are a lot of intelligent people out here playing the game that know when something is not working as intended.

MRA.4758:

Oozo.7856:

If you read back through all of my comments in this post you will see that I have already acknowlegded that.

Sorry, I didn’t read the whole thread. (I have given up reading whole threads in this forum.) I just noticed you updating your post with so much enthusiasm, so I merely wanted to drop a friendly reminder. No offense intended.

Oozo.7856:

If you were a developer, would you take a look at this poll and decide

If I were a software developer (fun fact: I am, but not with ANet) I would do my own research on how my product is doing.

Forum post or email complaints may be useful for a number of things (such as giving players a legit place to vent, and learning whether your communication strategy is working as intended) but they are most certainly not representative. That’s all I wanted to say.

~MRA

So, this poll isn’t a measure of which culling system is technically superior or why one is technically better than the other. It is an end-user satisfaction poll.

Now, the developers will make a system that they think most people will enjoy. But, if they get feedback that a lot of people aren’t enjoying their new system then maybe they should step back and ask the question “why?” rather than taking the position that the people who are saying they aren’t enjoying the new system are wrong and they are actually enjoying the new system more (they just don’t realize it).

lukeire.3679:

but thats a condition build/ confusion mes other mes don’t do much with condition and your punish them too like wth mate

Is that a joke? Pretty sure it was a joke. Good one.

fishergrip.4082:

Oozo.7856:

Only 1-2K? Try over 3K with 8 stacks.

I’m usually able to remove some stacks before I get that high as a guardian, but yeah it can get pretty absurd if you are out of removals.

Want to see a clip where I remove 4 stacks and then immediately have 6 reapplied?

Here is my suggestion. Reduce it’s damage to a reasonable level in WvW. Make it such that it only triggers when offensive abilities are used.

If I have a confusion mesmer on me plus one more you have to give me the ability to use defensive abilities without killing myself. And for the people who will inevitably say “use condition removal” – confusion can reapplied much faster than it can be removed.

Only 1-2K? Try over 3K with 8 stacks. And it triggers off of completely kitten things. I take confusion damage when I dodge roll since I have a trait that heals on dodge. I take confusion damage while channeling invulnerability. I take confusion damage channeling block. Sometimes I take confusion damage when I do nothing at all.

It needs a total redesign from the ground up.

MRA.4758:

Oozo.7856:

Need a bigger sample!

You do not only need a big sample, you do also need an unbiased sample.

Unfortunately, this is something that is virtually impossible to achieve by advertising a poll in a forum that is not a representative sample of the whole player base.

So, please, take your result with a grain salt.

~MRA

If you read back through all of my comments in this post you will see that I have already acknowlegded that. However, the main point of this was to bring it to the devs attention that a lot and I mean a lot of people are having a worse gameplay experience in the new system than the old system.

If you were a developer, would you take a look at this poll and decide

1. to ignore it
2. to investigate that there might be something not working as intended

THAT is the point of this poll. Now, before you say they aren’t ignoring it, keep in mind that the negative feedback you are seeing now was both given when they did the trial of this system in December and when it was announced that they were going to move to this system “because most of their feedback was positive” – which was not true, BTW. Most of the feedback was negative just as it is in this poll.

Did anyone see the footage a guy frapsed where his own character model culled out for over 20 seconds?

Alex.9268:

Absolutely worse. I don’t think nagging anet about it will help much though, the problem seems to be very deep and expensive.

Actually, all they would have to do to improve it for the people who are complaining is to revert back to the old system. It is that much worse now.

I’m guessing this is entirely a pride issue now.

1132 votes

Better 24%
Worse 63%

Kyuzo.4675:

No queue for any map in DR and massively outnumbered as per usual. So what was accomplished with the reset/no reset/new math/ no new math?

Lesser of two evils. If they went with the reset we would have been playing against Maguuma or Dragonbrand. Now they need to work on stagnation.

WARNING: This movie is meant to entertain. Action is synced with music. All clips are edited to make it seem like I’m way more awesome than I actually am, etc. etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ-aCbf2rJk

For more movies of this type visit my Guardian Playlist on Youtube.

Right.

I don’t always have this type of culling. But, I have it far more now and with a lesser number of players in the vicinity than I did in the old system. It seems to be worse in some areas of the map than others. It is really common for me to get culling in the SE BL supply camp (for example).

These are strong indicators that there is a possible bug or unintended consequence in the current system.

Here is the deal, Esoteric. A lot of us are experiencing culling when there are far less than 20 total players (friendly or enemy) in the vicinity. Check out the movies I’ve posted. I could make a ton of movies like these. And, it’s not just me… everyone in my group is experiencing this same culling at the same time.

The culling in these movies certainly can’t be what Anet is intending to happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Nnr1e7hsM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVMx3wxjNLo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Si4e8LIXw

Aldare.5836:

I respectfully disagree with the sentiment that a small group is more skilled than a large guild. That kind of statement can really apply to any person v person scenario. Any group/guild anywhere can have a better player than another group.

Yes, that’s why I’m saying more likely. I’m talking % chance here. Big guilds have their star players but also a lot of very average to bad players. You generally won’t find bad players running in a small group because their gameplay weaknesses would make it a miserable experience for them.

I’d say that an alliance of small guilds working together can do more than a large guild can since they would have access to more WvW guild perks.

Also, I’d say that people who run in small groups are going to generally be more skilled overall since you can get away with mouseclicking your abilities and spamming one when running with a zerg but you aren’t going to get very far doing that in a small group.

EnRohbi.2187:

If you think that any system of ratings is going to prevent stagnant matches, you’re wrong.

The fact is there’s only so many servers, and there are even less that should be matched against you.

We don’t want blowouts, nobody does.
The compromise is that, if you want balanced matches, it’s going to be against the same servers every week. I would settle in and get used to your opponents over the next few weeks, because when your server finds its home in tiers, it’s gonna be hanging around.

I’m going to use my server, Devona’s Rest, as an example. We had a mass exodus off of DR and currently DR is in T5 but in reality it is more of a T7 or T8 server. The servers below us are so evenly matched that they are trading wins and none of them can win by a significant enough amount to push DR down any time soon.

Under the current system it is very possible for three weaker servers to play in a higher bracket than three stronger servers below them because the three weaker servers are evenly matched and the three stronger servers are evenly matched. And that can go on for weeks and weeks and weeks.

Over 1000 votes.

1018 votes

Better 23%
Worse 64%

Esoteric,

Obviously the poll is not scientific, but what it does indicate is that a hell of a lot of people are having a worse gameplay experience with the current system when compared to the old system.

Now personally, I’m seeing culling that I don’t think I should be seeing under the rules of the CURRENT culling system. This could indicate that something is not working as intended (i.e there is a bug). In which case, the feedback from this poll and the comments within are important.

Hah, I meant that they rarely post their movies.

I think this is the right decision. Hats off for considering the community’s concern on this one.

After things settle you might want to consider tweaking the formulas so there is more movement in the rankings though. Since populations are going to be (relatively) locked, there is going to be very little movement in the ranks and it might get a bit boring fighting the same server 4 or 5 weeks in a row. That is already happening in the lower ranks.

I’m the kind of guy who likes to sneak up behind people and stab them in the back with my hammer.

I die alot…

Jscull.2514:

Nalivan.6451:

Jscull.2514:

Nalivan.6451:

Jscull.2514:

@Plok

You guys are pro.

I don’t know what it was, but killing that [GOAT] “commander” ele and the entire back line 3 times in a row with 20 around them…mighty fun.

Yeah, sure does take a lot of skill to attack us from behind while we are occupied with trying to take a fortified AR tower , i also seem to remember you guys dieing a lot as well then you run away. But you leaving out the minor details is what makes you Pro right? And since you were so willing to defend ARs tower we decided to take your entire borderlands, enjoy!

That’s called coordination. You wouldn’t know anything about attacking anyone from behind quickly because your eyes and those you are “commandings” eyes are all on pvdoor pvdoor pvdoor. It’s like a drug for you. You have the event up…. We fly in… Kill you Mr. kitten commander 3 times in a row. Same tactic. Take 5-10 with us Everytime. Lost two of us in 3 attempts. Took 20-30 kills. That is a victory for us. Pvdoor…. Get outtttaaa heeeeere lol!

Wait PVD? Lol you didn’t see the 15+ AR inside the tower and coming through the tunnel all the time? Wow and 2 times? really? I specifically remember killing a few of you around 7 times. Yeah, i’m pretty much convinced you are delusional.

Write what you want to “save” your commander pride on the forums. Live in a dream world of our “10-15” 5 mans running around and dying to all u stellar players following the blue Derrito. Not like youre going to admit dying to a group that’s 3-5x smaller than what you are “commanding” lol.

Personally, I like to add clones, illusions, thieve’s guild, ranger pets, necro minions, and spirit weapons when getting a proper count of the enemy.

The BSty guys are kind of shy but they make movies too.

Here are a couple of really nice 4vN sequences (IMO).

Dr Acula.3496:

Where’s Maguuma when you need em… This thread is severely lacking in crazy drama and trollish posts. Its just not the exciting read that it could be

You want drama? YOU WANT DRAMA? I’LL GIVE YOU DRAMA.

Nice movie, FTF.

Wait… did I do that wrong?

IQ must be this —-→ high
to enter the ride.

Blix.8021:

zastari.1730:

Props to [RISE] for being the first Kaineng guild to bother with duels this whole matchup. 0 Props to door machine for calling in enough people to make us outmanned on home BL whenever they see half their numbers show up. I would really like to hear some broken english justification for why they needed to bounce from SBI to tier 8. The only answer I can figure out is too many players not enough doors.

They wanted to “practice” lol

Yamagawa.5941:

Seriously, war is war, and WvW is war. Expect to be surprised by superior numbers. Expect the enemy to be hiding inside that ‘undefended’ keep.

Expect that solo Mesmer to not be alone.

Expect to die running solo in WvW.

Some people use something called “awareness of their surroundings” to gain an advantage over people who are less aware or careless. You are obviously not one of those people.

906 votes

Better 24%
Worse 64%

BTW, just want to thank everyone for their feedback regardless of the vote. Getting close to 1000 votes. That’s pretty good.

This forum is a pretty good representation of people who take WvW seriously enough to post about it. You will note that this forum is not designated as a forum for player complaints.

If someone is having better performance with the new system then they would be motivated to post in order to help preserve it.

Draygo.9473:

its better sometimes, and sometimes its worse.

I’m convinced at this point that the moments were noticing when its worse is a bug that anet can hopefully resolve soon. On paper by their description certain culling events were seeing plainly should not happen.

I tend to agree. Something is not working as intended.

DivineBeing.2086:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Why is Kain acting like “we dont field our better players on reset” is a valid reason to be bad when #s are equal?

I cannot speak for Dragonbrand. But Maguuma doesn’t field its best players either. People get suck in queues all the same as any other server.

EXACTLY! Reset night is a lotto really. That is exactly why reset night isn’t a good indication of how a server performs or how skilled it is.

Why? Because your dedicated, hardcore, WvW guilds/players can be stuck in the queues all night while your more casual alt leveling pugs filled the slots.

Passed the reset night and even more into the week days gives a much better indication of the server since you will be fielding the players that actually dedicate their time to WvW.

Thanks for help clarifying that up.

Yeah, things are always best after a server has demonstrated that they will win simply because of 24/7 coverage. No disadvantage to logging in to maps painted all one color with fully fortified keeps when you come home from work. Nope. And there is never a huge participation loss after people determine that actually trying to win the matchup is pointless. Nope.

Matches like these never snowball out of control. Nope. You can always tell who the most “skilled” server is in matchups like these by looking at the PPT during prime time late in the week when the winner is already set. Yep.

Krakah: “Yes, of course I know that the culling is done server side but a lot of the problem is on the user side.”

Archer.1658:

Oozo.7856:

A few movies added.

A portion of a fight between DR and EB at the ruins that lasted a few hours.

DR vs. EB at the ruins

A pretty intense 3-way. We did a good job with positioning to make sure we weren’t the ones getting sandwiched.

Outnumbered 3-way

The other is a montage against IoJ with bonus elite bag looting footage.

Bag looting techniques demonstrated in slow motion

Needs more good fights.

Are you on IoJ or EB and what is your guild tag?

covenn.7165:

lettucemode.3789:

Not every high-end machine is having a problem though. I have a high-end machine and culling is performing better for me. i5-3570k at 4.6GHz, GTX 660 Ti, 8GB ram, GW2 is on my SSD. I saw that video you posted about the culling system and I noticed the same thing happening with the old system on this same machine.

Similar to what I have, except I have the I7-3770K instead… I am not quite OC’d as much though. Culling is far less predictable and far worse than it was before for me.

Honestly though, all of this talk of systems is mostly pointless because the culling is done on the server. Bottom line is that it is far less predictable now and in many situations it is actually worse. Worse still, people are getting culled in situations where there should be no culling period (i.e. small fights).

Exactly.

Rinzler.8072:

If Arenanet said they fixed culling more (and really didnt chang anything) You guys would still say its worse even tho nothing changed.

Are you being serious?

We got this same culling in the December trial and complained about it then. They stopped the December trial and reverted back to the old system and we stopped complaining about it since the culling under the old system was better and more predictable.

Now that they have reinstituted the affinity system from the December trial, we are complaining about it again because the culling is as bad as it was during the December trial.

lettucemode.3789:

Oozo.7856:

Krakah.3582:

Oozo.7856:

Krakah.3582:

Oozo.7856:

Most of those people do not care about the technical aspect of why things are worse they just know that THINGS ARE WORSE.

I’m not defending Anet, but uninformed votes can’t be taken seriously.

Knowing why their gameplay experience is worse is totally irrelevant to a player saying whether their gameplay experience is better or worse.

I don’t know a lot about cars but I can certainly tell when it’s not running right.

That mind set is equivalent to complaining about your engine when all you needed was air in your tires.

Alot the problem is on the user side. Poorly maintained/low spec’d/configured machines can cause all sorts of results no amount of server/client changes will ever make better.

Dude, people with highend machines are having problems with the new culling system when they had no significant culling issues with the old system on the same kitten machine.

Scientific method: look it up?

Not every high-end machine is having a problem though. I have a high-end machine and culling is performing better for me. i5-3570k at 4.6GHz, GTX 660 Ti, 8GB ram, GW2 is on my SSD. I saw that video you posted about the culling system and I noticed the same thing happening with the old system on this same machine.

With the new fallback models, machine performance shouldn’t affect the culling at all.

The only time I had culling in the old system was when there truly was a massive zerg of people nearby. Now, I get culling even when there are a small number of people nearby. But, it’s inconsistent. Sometimes it’s fine, but sometimes you will see one person and go on them only to find it’s actually 7 people (AND THERE IS HARDLY ANYONE ELSE AROUND). That NEVER happened in the old system.

BTW, no one in the group of 10-15 I run with has said culling is better and they pretty much all experience the same culling I am seeing when it happens AS IT HAPPENS. I can hear them on mumble – “people are culling in!” And sure enough people are culling in for me as well.

This all points to it being a problem with the system (perhaps unintended consequences) and not the machines people are running.

That is called logic and reasoning.

Krakah.3582:

Oozo.7856:

Krakah.3582:

Oozo.7856:

Most of those people do not care about the technical aspect of why things are worse they just know that THINGS ARE WORSE.

I’m not defending Anet, but uninformed votes can’t be taken seriously.

Knowing why their gameplay experience is worse is totally irrelevant to a player saying whether their gameplay experience is better or worse.

I don’t know a lot about cars but I can certainly tell when it’s not running right.

That mind set is equivalent to complaining about your engine when all you needed was air in your tires.

Alot the problem is on the user side. Poorly maintained/low spec’d/configured machines can cause all sorts of results no amount of server/client changes will ever make better.

Dude, people with highend machines are having problems with the new culling system when they had no significant culling issues with the old system on the same kitten machine.

Scientific method: look it up?

Gah, I hate it when that happens. I’ve gotten into the habit of rendering the music in my movies with a black screen at really low res (so it’s small and uploads quickly). If there is a problem because of the music I’ll know beforehand before uploading a huge file.

Sometimes, though, a movie can be up for weeks before the music is a problem. But, it’s usually safe if it’s up a day or two without getting flagged.

Krakah.3582:

Oozo.7856:

Most of those people do not care about the technical aspect of why things are worse they just know that THINGS ARE WORSE.

I’m not defending Anet, but uninformed votes can’t be taken seriously.

Knowing why their gameplay experience is worse is totally irrelevant to a player saying whether their gameplay experience is better or worse.

I don’t know a lot about cars but I can certainly tell when it’s not running right.

I have been working on two theories…

Theory 1: The players from WM are actually an alien species that communicates via a “hive” mind.

or…

Theory 2: They have a dedicated driver that runs the show. They keep that driver targetted. They listen to that driver’s instructions and they don’t get distracted by squirrels.

I’m leaning towards Theory 1 at the moment.

Kelo.4370:

Everyone voting that it is worse I guarantee are running this game on sub-par systems. This new culling system is a vast improvement and for those of us playing this game on higher end systems have very little issue with culling at all. Then again people complaining about not being able to see their allies over not being able to see their enemies are just bad at this game anyway.

How someone can be so wrong amazes me.

I’ve never seen PAXA make any gloat posts about fights they’ve won. In fact, they are very respectful of people they fight in small scale fights. They have an obvious dislike for zergs though, which I share.

On the hypocrisy thing about complaining of getting killed 20v5 when you sometimes kill people 5v1…

You’ll never see a group like PAXA brag about killing someone 5v1 because they know the death and the kill is meaningless. However, posts from people running with zergs bragging about killing a small-man team are not uncommon even though they are also meaningless.

What is meaningful is when that small group wipes out a zerg or that one guy kills a group of 5 or a good group has a fight with another good group.

A few movies added.

A portion of a fight between DR and EB at the ruins that lasted a few hours.

DR vs. EB at the ruins

A pretty intense 3-way. We did a good job with positioning to make sure we weren’t the ones getting sandwiched.

Outnumbered 3-way

The other is a montage against IoJ with bonus elite bag looting footage.

Bag looting techniques demonstrated in slow motion

Couple of movies added.

A pretty intense 3-way where we were outnumbered by both sides. We did a good job with positioning to make sure we weren’t the ones getting sandwiched while we sandwiched the other servers.

Outnumbered 3-way

The other is a montage against IoJ with bonus elite bag looting footage.

Bag looting techniques demonstrated in slow motion

433 votes

Better 21%
Worse 67%
Same 12%

I’m not surprised by this as I thought most of the feedback from the December trial was negative, not positive. The complaints we gave then are the same as the complaints were are giving now.

Krakah.3582:

This poll is flawed. The latest update was to help load assets faster for players with slow machines, and changed to friend/foe binning for assets being rendered vs an all or nothing.

Culling has not been resolved, it’s servers side, and the devs have clearly stated they’re still working on resolving it.

Anet: “Hey guys, we are still working on resolving the culling issue but in the meantime we are going to go ahead and make the game worse for 67% of you.”

Bottom line: What matters is the enduser’s gameplay experience. Roughly 67% of those who have voted are saying that their gameplay experience is worse under the new system than the old system.

Most of those people do not care about the technical aspect of why things are worse they just know that THINGS ARE WORSE.

Xsorus.2507:

lettucemode.3789:

Xsorus.2507:

Oozo.7856:

Attacking won’t stop the rez unless you down the thief. Stealth house has counters. Not every class has those counters available to them.

I specifically take shield on my guardian to counter refuge. It’s a bit more balanced in a group versus group setting. If you are running solo with no counter to it, it’s going to suck for you for sure.

Have you thought about running duo, Xsorus? You can pair up with a class/build that covers some of your weaknesses.

i only run duo if i’m on the thief and guildies are on, i wont do it on the ranger

Attacking in a spot probably works better if you’re glass cannon build, for condition specs not so much..Maybe a Necro could pull it off.

I know that when I play my thief though I don’t have trouble getting my friend up if we’re house stealthed and 1 or 2 people are beating on us in an area, the only time it becomes difficult if there is 5+ people aoeing on the spot.

You’re a condition spec ranger. You have traps. Put the traps down in the shadow refuge. They will do more damage the longer he sits there reviving. Throw your torch down, spam sword 1.

Ehhh, I remove conditions while I’m stealthed…and heal myself for a crap ton…a Ranger has virtually zero chance of killing me with traps while I rez someone..

and Sword 1 will not down anyone (esp a condition spec one) before they’re rezzed.

Yeah, damage is not a sure way of stopping it. But shield of absorption works quite nicely.