Guild Wars 2

First off, I’m not saying this would fix all the problems that warrior have such as the requirement for certain skills when playing in a competitive environment. There are already many threads covering those subjects.

This thread is about basic skills behavior being broken.

(1) First skill that comes to mind : [Rush] (Greatsword 5 skill). This skill has been failing to hit a moving target (no dodge, no blink involved) on a really high ratio (about 40% of the time). Best scenario will result in a direct hit and your character will be on the enemy so you can get some melee hit on him. Sometimes the skill will get close to the target and hit before the enemy thus resulting in a failed strike (but at least you got close to the enemy so the gap closing part of the skill was effective). Worse case scenario will result in your hero bypassing the enemy completely and hit the air about 200 to 300 range behind him. In this scenario, the skill failed to deliver the damage while also failing to get you on your enemy. What did the enemy do in order to ’’dodge’’? He walked left or right or simply in a straight line. This is the biggest case of a skill behavior on the warrior profession.

(2) Second but nonetheless is [Bull rush]. This skill is similar to [Rush] in its behavior but it doesn’t not behave that poorly. The ratio of the skill not hitting a moving target is much much lower than [Rush]. But it still often happens (I would say about 10% of the time, hit me up if you think I’m in the wrong). The skill behavior is mostly broken when you find yourself behind your enemy while the target doesn’t get hit. The opponent basically only ran forward and the skill did not connect.

I think the reason why [Bull rush] lands more often than [Rush] is the speed at which the skill goes. Since [Rush] is so slow, it often fail to evaluate the destination where the opponent will be in the next second. On the other hand, [Bull rush] is not god speed but it is still not really slow, thus resulting in a better evaluation of the destination it needs to reach to connect.

(3) [Savage Leap]. This skill movement behavior seems fine. But, the hit that comes after the leap will often miss the target simply because the opponent is moving and the skill failed to determine where the ennemy will be the moment it lands. More often than it should, you will see your warrior hit the air after he lands on the ennemy.

My suggestion would be to actually make those ‘’gap closer’’ moves faster, or maybe give them a leap at the end of the skill so it corrects the error in the destination calculated.

Not gonna say warrior would be in a perfect spot after those skills are fixed, but that would still be better than what it was before! Imagine a guardian using [Judge’s intervention] and being sent 400 range behind the enemy while missing the hit. At least that would only be for about 25% of the time you cast [Judge’s Intervention]. Pretty sure Guardians would cry bloody murder…

Warriors simply don’t cry bloody murder on those skills anymore since it’s been this way for so long that we somehow almost view those skills behavior as a normal and inevitable end. Especially since [Rush] has been reworked and got slightly better than what it was before, yet still not in a healthy situation…

Thanks for reading and comment!
If you have any other skills that are bugged, feel free to elaborate and I will add them to the list.

It’s one small step for a healthy profession, but one (somehow) giant leap towards an happy profession.

Don’t forget that bull rush is actually in a much better shape than Greatsword 5 [Rush]… That skill has been somehow fixed yet the fix still doesn’t make the skill bearable 60% of the time… A skill that is a gap closer that will often send you way behind your ennemy if he simply walks, thus negating the gap closing effect.

Not gonna say warrior is all that bad. But some basic things are still not fixed even with an expension… Those basic things are irritating. Imagine a guardian using JI [Judge’s intervention] and being sent 400 range behind the enemy while missing simply because the opponent is moving forward or strafing left. Would guardian cry bloody murder… Yes.

Warriors simply don’t cry bloody murder on those skills anymore since it’s been this way for so long that we now view those bugged mechanic as a game design :S

It’s not only a problem for non-NA/EU players…

It’s like taking football/hockey matches (for those who follow sports instead of gaming on Gw2) on friday night and push them on saturday morning…

Bad choice

I’m a sad panda

Ahah, I guess! Sorry if it was already an idea that was vehiculed a while ago. As I said, I’m new to the pvp scene <3

And yes, I guess it might truly be a deal with it situation. As I said build diversity is not that horrible. Still a few builds here and there to play with, especially when you play as a premade. Otherwise, you might cry a few times that no one wants to play support, but the same thing might happen to the ennemy team! Who knows ^^

Thanks everyone for the discussion, been a great talk.
Signed, a fellow Canadian <3

Starfall.6425:

Phantom.5389:

Second time I have to clarify what I already posted. I don’t mean that burn is a problem for TOP TEAM PVP… Mainly because they have conditions cleanse covered with their composition.

I have 800 games and play mostly solo. I don’t see burn as a real problem. It’s just currently good.

What I see as problem is that people want to play their favorite class with their favorite build and expect it to always work. If people would look at the teams and the map and maybe switch a utility accordingly there would be much less QQ. I often switch my char or a utility depending on what team I or the enemy has.

Yes, that is why I also play shoutheal warrior even if I prefer GS axe + shield due to my 2800 hours roaming on that build :‘( I would not mind if I had to play support once in a while, but sometimes it’s like 3 games in a row playing support.

You my friend just gave me a kitten good idea on the subject and I love you for that alone <3

I wish there was a role that you could chose to play. Support builds would probably have instant queue that’s for sure, but that is because they took the non selfish way. Props to them and would promote the forever forgotten support players. I would rather wait a bit more in order to get a matchup with a support when I truly want to play my full dps warrior. Otherwise, if I’m tired of waiting, I could alway check the case for to be the support role or DPS role and let the first role needed in a team to dictate my match making.

Dunno if that is even possible to implement, but I would love it
That fix would be my favorite one… What are your thoughts about solo queue and roles ready check?

P.S. if my idea seems unclear, I can explain what I’m thinking about. A bit like a ready check when you queue for a Raid in a holy trinity mmo (DPS-Healer-Tank), except that over here there would only truly be bunker/support and dps? Just a wild thought ^^

Yes, I don’t feel like the situation is that bad either. Just a bit stale.

I feel like burning guard and burning engineer need to be slightly towned down, not a ban hammer on their head but maybe make it so you don’t need to cleanse and hope it is the condition removed otherwise you are 100% sure to be screwed (random condi clear as a counter mechanic is pretty sad if you don’t run a pure anti condition build or a pure anti condition build is not around you to cleanse all the condis, thus negatign the RNG part of cleanse). It would still make pure support important because those personnal cleanse are often way too little for the amount of conditions applied or re-applied, but atleast it would give a better survival rate on the only condition that often brings more damage than all the other conditions applied to you additionned together in a given match. Like some people said, the other conditions a burn build brings are often only there to negate you from cleansing the burn applied.

Like you and I said, in team pvp burn guard or burn engineer is not a problem since the team composition always bring enough condition cleanse, the problem is mostly there in solo queue.

A good matchup to me would be one where we have different builds all around to play with and against, not just team pvp for fun matches or solo queue with burn builds/anti burn builds.

Maybe I’m too optimistic but I feel like the only thing that I want is a more balanced pvp overall? Make it so it is slightly less rock/paper/scissor. I know it is a long road to take, but bringing down the builds that grants you easy wins for minimal efforts is not so much of a bad choice. Also, a balance should never be too drastic. What they did with the burning of a celestial ele is pretty much what I would like to see happen to the other burn builds. Especially in consideration of the new blood coming in this game with HoT. Imagine how they will feel if they don’t know the counter to it. Lucky me I had 2800+ hours roaming in WvW before I came to pvp so I had the mechanics and counter for that meta already in my head. But those new players getting condition applied to them and then use their personnal condi cleanse to finally cleanse poison and bleed that have been applied from sigils, die a horrible death in the next few seconds. Best case scenario, those new players get to effectively condi cleanse the initial burning then get a second burn bomb applied to them since zealots flame is up again with radiant flame trait proc… just to finally die in less than 10 seconds will get pretty frustrated. Also note that those players might think getting more tank stats will save them and try a big tanky amulet to finally get killed in about the same amount of time since thougness doesn’t negate condition, only cleanse mechanics truly do. They will probably cry bloody murder against such a thing.

They will either adapt and go for anti condi or get into a condition build themselves when they solo queue (getting into team pvp when you start an mmo is usually much harder to do right off the start). Otherwise, they will drop the towel and look for a greener pasture somewhere else :S

I don’t know how you feel about that. Maybe I am alone feeling like GW2 build diversity needs a little something.

@ Drennon.7490

I would indeed prefer a long winded reply to be honest. This would maybe change my perspective. As you saw, I did concede the point about engineer running soldier that Nocta pointed at me. I indeed did not include that build in what solo Q players run while I in fact saw a few of them.

But so far solo Q is not in a lively form (atleast from what I noticed in all the games I played since the june patch). It feels pretty stale to me in term of builds diversity.

To be honest, I know where you are coming from. Team pvp is fun, hell me and my friends in a premade team go in ranked and we enjoy it. We once had a match vs the Abjured and we did fairly well in 300-500 game (defeat). Was far from perfect, but we did decent for a team who don’t take part in any form of tournament. Our team comp often revolves around 1 support guardian, 1 cele ele and me on GS / axe+shield warrior.

It just feels like meta is being forced to run anti condi in order to make sure burning is kept in check.

I guess I truly need 2000+ games of the same builds to notice a trend in solo Q then. Sorry I won’t bother your great knowledge senpai. My solo queue experience since the june patch are worth nothing in comparison to the great sensei knowledge.

Sorry. I am ashamed and will go dig kitten for me to hide for all eternity.

/sarcasm

From the Merriam Webster Dictrionnary

Definition of AD HOMINEM

1: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
2: marked by or being an attack on an opponent’s character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

@Nocta.5274

Why can’t people read my original post >_>

Second time I have to clarify what I already posted. I don’t mean that burn is a problem for TOP TEAM PVP… Mainly because they have conditions cleanse covered with their composition.

I’m talking about solo queue, where you get to play with what you have at hand.

Also, I don’t talk about hotjoin since I don’t play in there (heard it’s a cesspool of pvp dailies farmer filled with leavers and 3v5 and 4v5).

I do give you the point about soldier engineer build, I did see it played even in solo queue, mainly due to the fact that they have high sustain and decent cleansing power while still being a decent damage dealer. But, seen more often than condition engineer? I would not go that far for solo queue, only in a team pvp scenario does I see them more often.

The pattern I notice is that any power build, to be considered viable need to be one of those build with incredible conditions immunity or condition cleanse (or be supported by a support guard/warr or necro condi transfer).

As for longbow ranger, well I did say it was not a dead end. But in any case a shatter mesmer will benefit more in a role of a 1v1 or +1 scenario than a GS/LB ranger. A good thief can still be viable in solo queue, but they usually melt nowadays when I finally get to see one of those mythical creature (exaggeration right there if you don’t catch that sarcasm). Apart from the times I queue with a friend who main thief, thieves feels underreprensented in the actual pvp scene for solo queue.

Also, I’m not a pro pvp player, I’m fairly new to this aspect of the game. I mostly played in WvW as a roamer. I did play every profession in WvW, just not every profession in pvp. I main warrior since I’ve been a fan of melee characters in every games I’ve played so far. But now I do feel forced to play support warrior more often than I can enjoy my time playing a fast paced zerker warrior. I did play thief about 3 years ago when the game came out, went for warrior after I got tired of ambushing people >:D

http://imgur.com/WFif1An

Well, MY GS + Axe and shield works pretty fine if I should add. I’m a roamer in WvW at first so I actually handle myself pretty kitten well. But what about my team? If I don’t support them they plop like mosquitos when I see their health bar and the massive amount of conditions under them. So when I play zerker and see the massive amount of condis the ennemy team have and my team got no aoe condi cleanse, I try to play a cap battles where I move around enough to evade those aoe condis battles. Sometimes it works, but more than often it doesn’t since if the ennemy team is wise they will simply rotate for 2 cap when they know our team can’t stand the condis.

Not saying it’s impossible, oh god no. I did win against those team as zerker warrior, but usually it is because we alteast have 1 support aoe cleanser. You should probably be in the highest damage dealer in the entire match with such a build. But sustain is not your forte, and if no one else is gonna support, might as well take up the role…

@Nocta.5274

Please read the post before answering to it. I did clarify that if I play a premade it is fine since I will run with a team composition based against conditions (see here elementalist/support guard/support warrior/necros and add in a few power damage dealer). Team pvp and solo Q is 2 different beast. Insolo Q if you wanna win, your build diversity is affected greatly since condition needs to be hard countered if you want to ensure not raging at aoe condition fest (and as I said, sometimes even if you roll support, you alone is often not enough to keep the condition spreading around in check, and that is while playing one of the most boring bunker support build… sorry for those who loves those build but you are the true MVP).

@Dashi.1368
It is not a question of winning/losing. It is the fact that most class are forced into a specific build (be it burning build or mass cleanse build in a solo Q pvp).

Thieves -> Non-existent or closely
Rangers -> Condi ranger
Mesmer -> There are some, glad they can still play shatter mesmer, be it condi or power.
Warrior -> Support warrior
Guardian -> Support Guardian or burn guard
Engineer -> Burn engineer
Necromancer → Currently in a sweet spot due to condition meta.
Elementalist -> Meta did not change how they are played, but still mainly one build can be seen and it’s DD/cele ele.

I’d rather have a win/loss ratio much worst. Let’s be honest if you duo Q and you and your friend play support/support or support/burn you just got yourself a solid starting team and will most likely win this pugs vs pugs battle. As for solo Q, odds are still in your favor if you get to play a support build. Yet, where is build diversity? Nowhere to be seen…As a Warrior main I hate this meta. It got old really fast…

Thanks for the reply Silv ^^ Pretty much how I feel about it.

And yes I main a power build on my warrior and my win/rate is pretty decent I would say. Most of the time, when I lose it’s because my team is facing a full condi team (see here 4 to 5 players being condition) while my team is pretty random, In those scenario, having one support guard or warrior to aoe cleanse on top of our personnal cleanse is simply not enough. Hell, even 2 support build in there would probably not get rid of that many conditions, thus the preference for elementalist + guardian/warrior support as a team composition.

As for point 4, don’t get me wrong. I said condition build now have a much higher condi burst than before, but I still see power build having a higher burst. Just that the gap between the 2 is now much thinner than it was before due to the new burning condition.

And yes, I guess you are right, I should maybe prevent myself from solo queing too much, sometimes it just gets on my nerve when I see the same team composition over and over again.

So, apparently, Gw2 pvp got 2 distinct playing field. Premade pvp and the rest.

In premade team pvp, burning is not an issue since their team composition is based around elementalist (easy access to condi cleanse), necromancer (easy access to condition transfer) and support guardian or support warrior (massive access to condition cleanse). Thus negating the insane damage that burning condition can pull out.

In the other aspect of pvp where you don’ premade 24/7 you seems to have 3 options.

Option 1 : Run the build that counter burning, be that support guardian or support warrior, be that necromancer or be that celestial elementalist.

Option 2 : Run a burning build yourself and hope that the team generated to face you did not follow option 1, may the best condition user win.

Option 3 : Run that power build you love and hope that the team generated does not include a ratio of 2+ condition users that your limited amount of condition cleanse can’t manage (you should atleast always have 1 or 2 condition cleanse, even if using option 3). Otherwise, pray to god someone in your team wanna be that support/bunk build so you can survive those burning stacks that gets applied faster than you can cleanse.

P.S. I did notice that in most case, the class diversity is… non-existent.

As for the melee class (see here guardian and warrior), it is basically expected that you will run a bunker support build nowadays (unless you are a burn guardian).

As for the thief, you are expected to +1 only because you can’t stand a burning guard, you can’t stand a trap ranger, you can’t stand… You get the point…Thief is weak in the current meta.

Mesmer are in a wierd spot because they kind of took the position of the old thief due to their survivability+mobility while being abble to deal some great damage at a range distance.

Necromancers are in a sweet spot at the moment since many power builds were left behind and those condition users that try to catch that necromancer will often eat back their own conditions and die while crying. Otherwise it is a good class to bunker and await reinforcement in case of a dire situation.

Engineer were king with their decap/bunker, but this got nerfed (thanks god). BUT! They got a decent love patch recently with the burning condition going out of control. Basically, most engineer will run a condition engineer build due to it’s insane condition burst while havign acess to some decent survivability.

Rangers, hated in WvW but fairly decent in pvp with their trap condi ranger build. High sustain and great at caping/decaping with those traps. Otherwise, the longbow ranger build is not completly out of the game, yet it is highly situational since it doesn’t offer the same contesting power in conquest as the condition build. Can be decent in the map Temple for a middle fight in a +1 scenario, but then again I would go for mesmer.

Elementalist… Nothing much to say about them is there? Still highly viable for pvp when it comes out to being good at everything while equipped with celestial gear. Won’t speak further in that case.

Conclusion about non-premade team
The condition build will often be the best choice over the power build due to the higher sustain it gives you while being able to deal some insane damage, especially for the condition builds working around burning (guardian, engineer, ranger). Power build lost its color and will often only be viable if you have players in your team willing to play a heavy support role. And even then, a condi build can pull out a condition burst that is pretty much as strong as a power user. Thus blurring the distinction between condition damange and direct damage. Back in the days, the higher sustain of a condition build was related to the fact that they could not burst someone down in a short amount of time. Nowadays, they benefit from the same tankiness as they used to while being able to burst down someone with the help of the new damage associated with the burning condition. Personnal cleanse is often not enough because your cleanse might cleanse that doom sigil, that blind or worse… that vulnerability stack.

Personnal condition cleanse is often lacking for a great amount of builds. The fact that anti condition runes/sigils can be equipped is not a valid argument to my eyes since a decent condition build will also equip runes/sigil giving him access to more conditions. The fact that the condition application is higher than condition cleanse for most build is not the problem. The problem to me seems to be the fact that a condition is now able to burst down someone while having the benefit of a higher suvivability. I think burn should have a lower damage output while being slightly longer (see here shorter duration than bleed, but higher damage than bleed).

I just think that the team composition are really stale and are forced to be around heavy condition removal due to the new damage of burning… Thus reducing the so promised build diversity promised by ArenaNet.

In a PVP scenario, warrior will have a hard time in a 1v1 with a cele ele (if both players are experienced with their class). Big open space if the friend of the Warrior while restricted space (see here pvp node) is an Elementalist best friend.

In PVP -> Warrior usually can’t hold a node vs a Cele ele unless some lucky crit land and the ele rotation is now completly defensive (and can’t recover). Otherwise, a shoutbow warrior can stale the fight on a node with a cele ele in a 1v1 scenario.

In WvW -> Warrior shine in 1v1 against cele ele since their mobility is not restricted, they don’t ’’need’’ to stand on a node or something. You can simply get out of the ring of fire and play around it. If both players are good, fights can go both way. Personnaly I usually win against Cele ele unless I truly screw something up. Sometimes there is simply no winner. A cele ele in a roaming/duel situation can also use the ‘’no node restriction’’ to their advantage and stale the fight running around and focusing every cooldowns on healing/escaping.

Different situations for different results
Hope this helped

Sorry to inform you that… a pure condi warrior build doesn’t really exist. It is a class on it’s own in regard to that.

Even a build with pure condi dmg/duration stats won’t be 100% condition due to the fact that the abilities associated with the condition (sword and longbow) also have physical damage included in the formula (on a much higher ratio than some other profession).

Nonetheless condition build such as what you linked can indeed pull some condition damage. But think of warrior ‘’condi build’’ as an hybrid more than a pure condi.

Try a celestial build on a ‘’condi warrior’’ build. It is what I see most ‘’condi warrior’’ run.

Boring? Been playing GS+Axe shield in WvW/pvp since forever on warrior and it is the funniest build out there for my personnal taste (see here a person who loves full melee class).

It just baits dodges spamming auto attacks and flat out kills people who runs out of dodges and stun breaks. Boring playstyle yet they buff the boring easy effective build.

Hell, if you make the people use all their dodge/stability and invulnerability… I sure hope you enjoyed that fight! As for dodging auto attack… tell me why on earth would someone position himself on melee range vs a full melee warrior and hope to survive based on dodge roll alone if he runs a non-melee build?

Some builds can face a full melee warror on melee range (see here celestial D/F ele, medi guard for exemples).

As for ranged builds being able to beat a full melee warrior, there is plenty who can wins in a 1v1 situation if played right. The best exemple would be the mesmer who is usually considered a hard match-up for a full melee warrior (see here GS/staff shatter mesmer, condi PU mesmer for exemples).

Evsicerate is one of the heaviest telegraphed skill in the whole game, if you can’t force the opponent to use his dodge/stab how on earth are you suposed to land that F1 skill… which is high damage at the cost of a telegraph skill, same as rifle f1 and hammer f1 which give decent damage + stun for a price in telegraph.

It is one of the reason a skilled mesmer with a staff has a high chance of winning over a skilled warrior due to phase retreat, a skill with a 10 second cooldown and usable while stunned (makes it hard to land the big combos of a warrior, be it a F1 or hundred blades when comboed with a stun).

I don’t see how outplaying your opponent when it comes to cooldown management/ use of dodge rolls or terrain is a bad thing.

Here is a video of I Rising Raiden I from Trillmatic™. The build did not change much over the years, it is a little more zerker than it was before due to the overall damage increase of last patch and now we could add the shield cooldown reduction on top of that, anyway enjoy! : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR77R9uoY8M

Great news and thanks!

One month ago it was the 23th of june patch where the queues were insanely fast due to people experimenting with the new possibilities!

Still what you have noticed is true, the queues are getting longer and longer, at least in comparison to what the queues were like if we take the average queue time of 2-3 months ago. I played unranked and the time it takes is often nearing 4 minutes. As for Ranked… this is a nightmare where it can sometimes take up to 8 minutes! This is without counting the fact that you need to take time to choose the map, the time for the match to start. So a good 5-6 minutes to finally play an unranked match and the time to forget you are currently queued up if you are looking for a ranked match-up…

Truly a disappointment when you have to stay in this barren place with nothing to do except talk on the troll chat (which I don’t hate, but it gets boring after so long).

As Phil said :

1) Motivation issue: no active season & leaderboard
2) Balance issue: there are broken things not fixed (mesmer, ele burning, rampage etc.)
3) Hotm issue: spend half of your time standing in hotm doing nothing, it’s a killer for the queue.

But I would think that #2 and #3 are the major factors. Many players that play unranked won’t even look at those seasons. But right now, even the unranked queue is affected…

Winter.1374:

ye have the same problem

cant leave by leaving instance
cant leave by going to char select
cant leave by exit to desktop
cant leave by getting kicked coz idle

ANet has created the perfect prison!
My plant got dragged into the match.. but every charachter on my account is now part of the punishment
(as when you select a different charachter it will be ported into the pvp map aswell.. first you see the normal map you are in.. it loads.. it goes black.. and stronghold pvp map pops up)
..

I swear Ill behave.. just dont hurt my ele, she’s my roleplay char and she will not understand whats happening to her! xD

Roleplay your ele! Call out to the gods and ask to be freed! Maybe they will free the others along with you! <3

We are probably in same matchup then… lol been stuck there for the last 20 minutes or so

Batman save us!

So far, all I can say is that this map is super fun and truly different!

-Only major problem I’ve encountered so far is defenders using aoe on gate to kill doorbreakers without having any fear of being caught. I played quite a few times already and this is becoming more and more obvious… people catch up quick to exploit/easy defense such as this. Doorbreakers simply can’t understand that big red circle will be their doom and they go for it only to die before dropping their bombs.

-Maybe give doorbreakers a small range so they don’t get caught into the aoe from defenders inside the gate? Or try to make it so aoe from inside the gate won’t affect door breakers?

Apart from that, awesome game mode <3

Silverkey.2078:

As I mentioned, I would see instead a crit on application (makes more sense physically + better for server). So you normally hit 200 damage/stack for 5s, but on a critical, it would be 300 damage/stack for 5s. Since condi damage would be on par with physical damage, it would be as hard as if you crit during a direct damage hit.

Ohhhh! Yes! I saw it like giving the possibility for each condition tick to crit… silly me.
Your idea is even better

If it is too much stress on server to make conditions crit. The formula for condition damage could simply include precision and ferocity as + damage on condition.

For bleeding it could become : 0.05 * (Condition Damage + precision + ferocity) + 0.5 * Level + 2.5 (and then scale it so it becomes a strong rival to zerker, just in a different form → the longer it is applied the stronger it becomes).

Basically, the PVE side would not truly be affected with the ideas proposed here. This change is mostly oriented to PvP-WvW. The point is to make condition damage benefits more from the other stats and not just on +condition damage (since + condition duration doesn’t come from gear).

As OP said, make condi damage slightly lower when running on +condition damage only, allow them to crit and maybe give a condi duration stats that allow them to stay longer (stack more, since they last longer = more dps overall). The overall damage would stay the same, but those who wanna keep a strong condition damage would need to sacrifice vitality and toughness, like a zerker build needs to do at the moment.

Another idea could be to also scale condition with ferocity instead of condition duration. A set of offensive stats for a condition build could become Condition damage (major) + precision (minor) and ferocity (minor). So the duration of the condition basically stays the same.

The point would be to level things up a bit where a person geared in Dire would not be able to condi burst someone while he himself becomes truly hard to burst due to all those defensive stats bonus.

You could build yourself as a glass canon condi like a zerker does while being on a condition build. Condition burst and power burst would both exist.

Sorry for the long post, here is a dancing kirby! <(^^<) ^(^^)^ (>^_^)>

I think that in PVE, the players already don’t go for Dire stats. They indeed go for 3 offensive stats even if the damage bonus from the 2 minor stats apart from condition damage has less impact than precision/ferocity for a zerker. Thus if they balance things out on those stats, I think it would be awesome.

Sir you deserve that upvote! That’s a good review of the current situation and I could not said it better!

Crossplay.2067:

You guys can toss numbers and claims around all you want but you’re missing the mindset behind these builds.

You can toss any argument about the way those builds are intended to work. Currently condi burst exist, even prior to burning becoming more overpowered.

Words are worth so little.
Screenshot are decent proof.
Videos are actual fact.

Did you take a look at the 2 videos I posted right before you did? Please do. Those are actual facts and those builds are even more powerful now with the latest patch!

I do understand your point about waiting for the good time, that’s how it should be done. But even if you try to burst down a condi dire, he will still survive, unless you can show me a build that can pretty much do 20k + damage before he can go into disengaging mode and heal rotation. Basically, you need more than 1 perfect burst rotation with RNJesus having your back to burst those players, which is kind of absurd for the pressure those condi dire build can apply. Of course a power build can still kill those builds but I feel like they are little too tanky for the dps output they have.

I would totally be fine if to deal damage similar to a full zerker you needed to invest in 3 offensive stats on armor. Just saying.

The thief condi build. Look at that sexy hp and toughness! Then look at the condi application/burst… Hell even the video maker is speaking of a condi burst thief on a full dire set…

Most condi build rely on condition damage AND condition duration (also some build may increase the dps by going for precision)… sadly condition duration comes from everywhere except from stats on armor. Basically you gain condition duration without paying a high price since you would eventually go for the traits/runes/food that gives condition damage (they go along with condition duration). Do you even understand why in WvW everyone runs -% and +% condi duration runes and food? Because they know condition is the flavor of the month…. that became the flavor of the Gw2 lifestyle in a small men scenario where there is not enough cleanse vs condition application.

As for PvP, Anet removed some condition based runes from the choices. And there is no food, wonder why? Why not change those gimmicky things all together so we can finally find diversity in runes/food once again. Also make sure condition can’t go full defense and deal those kind of damage.

Even with full dire, a condi can still bring absurd burst, 25k hp and massive toughness to comes up with those burst? You are the judge! So much for the ‘’it takes time to set up’’. Even with a full cleanse you can re-apply the same amount of conditions in 3 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIBUUYle5hQ&feature=iv&src_vid=NFTHLvzmPr4&annotation_id=annotation_3280454625

I love the dps upgrade overall, just burning seems a bit op. It’s not like burning application came from 1 big burst skill that you can dodge, it comes from basically everything. So yes, no more bunker boring meta!

I get your point.

Just to clarify, I do know that to max out the dps on a condi build you need 3 offensive stats. My point is mostly that for a power build with only 1 power stats and 2 defensive stats, he will hit like a wet noodle. The damage mitigation from toughness applies to power build. As for condition, it bypass toughness and apply itself directly to the health. I do agree that to compensate for that, there are condi cleanse. Sadly, the condi cleanse are often so few in comparison (exception to elementalist) to how much condi application a real condition build can come up with.

Basically, a condi build with Dire stats can deal enough damage to kill their enemies at a speed that, while being slower than a full zerker, is still much faster than what a power build with PTV can achieve.

Usually the logic that goes by is to reward the high risk gameplay since it is harder to master.
Just saying that low risk gameplay should not come with such a high reward. If condi builds were also hitting like wet noodle with only 1 offensive stats, I would not even be on this forum. It’s just that most condi builds out there (exception to PVE) will use Dire stats since it is forgiving while dealing enough damage to crush their opponents.

I don’t know if you looked at the videos I posted. The first video shows how 2 kind of power builds are played and it also shows how a full dire build is played on the same class. You can truly see which one contains more risk. Both can down the enemy really quickly while one has the advantage of sitting on 20k+ hp on a thief with high toughness.

I agree that the second video is truly not representative since the player faced people who had no idea what was happening (Dire stats + perplexity runes were new at that time, yet he still got firework banned from WvW).

+1

For once I’m actually considering playing sPvP more and more and not only when roaming in WvW is slow! Fast paced fights are awesome! There is still a great need of balance to do, but I feel like we are on the road to something great.

Anyway, if you think about reducing damage, make sure we don’t fall back to the bunker meta where no one dies unless outnumbered.

The true problem often comes from what Silverkey said.

Here is a player who did a thorough video on different build for the same class. Two power build and 1 with Dire stats and condition build. You can look at the description to grasp how the player felt as he played the many different build.

Condition are indeed more of a passive play since your auto attack (combined with the traits/runes/sigil) often becomes your main source of DPS. Also, there is the famous Dire stats that has been a subject of discussion since its release. The stats that Dire provide are 1 offensive and 2 defensive, yet a condi build is still able to deal incredible damage, damage that a person with full PTV (soldier) will never ever come close to. As for the PVE side, I agree that there are many variant for a condi build, yet the impact from the secondary stats (apart from crit on some builds) is inferior to what precision and ferocity brings to a power build.

Some other players played full Dire stats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E This player got firework banned from WvW.

Silverkey.2078:

@Phantom I don’t understand your point. In principle, instead of dodging a damage burst, you’re dodging a condition burst. There is nothing broken with conditions in the mechanics per se. On the opposite, condis have one more way to be negated which is condi cleanse.

The problem is when some hard conditions (like burning) are applied on the AA. Hard condi should be on cooldowns and thus dodgeable, while AA should apply weak conditions like small bleeds or so.

+ I also think condi should crit on application (nothing wrong with the idea that you applied a particularly strong condi hit). This way you can nerf the base condi damage but get it back with a high crit chance. This would ensure people who want high condi damage cannot also take a defensive stat. So to get full condi power you should invest in 3 stats:
Berserker: power, precision, ferocity
maxcondi-prefix: condi damage, precision, condi duration

Yes, sorry if I was not clear on my point!

My point was simply that auto attack should not become the main threat from ANY profession/class/build. I would love to see condi build with many different type of big ‘’burst condi application’’ with different cooldown that needs to be dodged/blocked (see here the example of the engineer ’’wrench’’).

I understand that you can cleanse conditions, thus there is a need to give enough condi application in order to make cleanse important. A wasted cleanse on a simple cripple could become fatal (like wasting your dodge rolls on auto attack as a zerker f1 from a warrior or a cloak and dagger from a thief arrives for you). As of right now, condi cleanse are generally able to save you from one burst of condi application, but when this application is based on the auto attack of your opponent, it becomes pretty pointless (exception to elementalist which are often considered a hard target for condi build).

My other point was pretty much related to the fact that many condi build still hits really hard in a full Dire scenario while a power build that goes full Soldier (power-vitality-toughness) can’t bring any kind of pressure that is similar to a condi build.

Basically, make the the high risk playstyle more rewarding and the passive playstyle to be less rewarding.

Valento.9852:

People can stand zerker meta for almost 3 years, but when condis go strong it’s all “oh mai gahd nerffzz pl0x”.

People could stand zerker meta because you can dodge the bursts coming at you. You could also burst them down! Those fights often take one exchange of blows to decide the winner, a single mistake often means death.

As for most condi build, they require to run around and fire from afar to apply the conditions that will slowly grind down your enemy. If the enemy ever get close to you, you can still rely on your high toughness and vitality from that full Dire set to survive even the highest of burst that RNJesus allows a zerker will most likely not conclude that fight (even if a really small minority runs some precision, they are still the minority).

It might be slightly exaggerated, but my mind when I face a pure zerker is full of excitement while against a condi I often don’t reach the same battle spirit.

Just look at how each builds are played, look at the way the fights are concluded. The level of adrenaline is clearly not on the same level!

Zerker thief : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdx-ovYCqhQ
Condi thief : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNiwNY4wTtg

So basically I do feel like tuning down condis is not hard to understand.
-I am totally in accord to condis taking a bigger place in PVE since it is what was asked.
-I am totally fine with condis gaining more impact on team battles.
-I am not in accord to boosting conditions damage so it can compete in the dammage a glass cannon build may deal, unless they make it so that this condition build also require 3 offensive stats (thus becoming a glass cannon condi build).

I agree with the OP.

Simple solution and it clearly take the best of the old system and the new system!

Anyway. I understand your point of view. It just seems to me that achievements should not be aimed at that 0.5-1% of the gaming population. I do believe that they could make most for the WvW achievements hard to get but obtainable while making or leaving one or 2 achievements to be life time consuming for those who want a Dark Soul kind of experience.

Vavume.8065:

@Phantom, I’m at 27k yaks, and I didn’t say my 9k hours was all WvW , I just said a large percentage was, I have no real idea how much time I have spent there, its just a lot. I feel these titles should take at the very least 1 year of full time WvW to obtain, in the same way Sarcx obtained 250k kills within about that time playing hardcore.

Sacrx was indeed a hardcore player. But you need to understand that farming 250k kills back then and nowadays is a completely different thing. Back then I heard of nights of 1.5k kills. Nowadays? Do you often get 1500+ kills in a mere 6 hours? Doubt it :S

The maps were full. Everyone ran whatever build they wanted. People did not really care to die as long as they got a kill. Nowadays people run with a group all optimised to kill the other group who is also optimised. For sure there are still a few baddies here and there. But those nights are over.

Unless you farm EotM in order to get those 250k kills, otherwise it is a long process in comparison to what it used to be.

I agree with that. But if Vavume got to 17k yak killed with 9k+ hours. Is 20k yak kills truly a good choice? Knowing that I took 3000 hours for around 4700 yaks. It seems to me that on average it is around 4000ish yaks killed per 3k hours.

And that is if you are like me and Vavume playing only WvW. So basically, I think that this particular achievement should not be 20k yaks (see here 15 000 hours played in WvW OR nearly 2 years in game). I think an achievement should be set that a maximum of 6 months in game exclusively doing WvW is considered good enough to earn those WvW titles. Like honestly, the only achievements I can think of in GW2 that required 6 months in game time were the old PvP ranks. Nowadays, even PvP ranks don’t require 6 months starting from rank 1 to 80.

At the very least, this would only be an addition to those who are already dedicated to WvW.

@Aedros That is exactly why I think 6 months in game time is legitimate. This equal to approximatively 4000 hours in the game playing WvW give or take a few hours. I doubt the new player joining in today will think it is too easy, but he will at the very least feel like it is reachable ^^

Basically, camps and yaks will only help speed the auto upgrade. A map could get all their camps flipped and still end up with T3 keeps with waypoint if the other force is not big enough to actually take the big structure.

auto-upgrade is fine to me, I don’t mind it as long as supplies effectively get into the keep. Yak should be needed to upgrade a structure, not just time.

Walls cannot be built out of thin air.

+1 Agreed on that aspect. Auto upgrades is fine as long as stopping dollies effectively stop the upgrades. A wall cannot be built out of thin air.

All Dolyak tappers of Tyria unite!

Thanks for sharing your numbers!

May I ask you how much hours it took you to get those number Vavume?
I can understand that my numbers are fairly low since I mostly solo roam (duels and such). I’m just astonished about the difference in my number and yours XD!
I got 3000 hours mostly solo roaming and I guess my numbers truly are not good for the average WvW player.

If you don’t mind. Could you post what numbers you think would be representative of the average WvW player?

Dawdler.8521:

This is so true, especially for one particular achievement.

People has long since done the 250K kills achievements and now everyone says WvW is boring. They are probably right.

Yes, I do know Realm avenger is attainable already with 250 000 kills. But it is still a long journey for newer players. I wanted to find numbers that both veterans and new players alike can be proud when arriving at the end of the journey.

As a starting point. Here is what I think could be considered achievable. Feel free to put the numbers you believe is achievable. Those numbers might still be fairly high, having no comparison, I put the bar pretty high. Once we get more people sharing what they believe is achievable, we can adjust all the numbers in consideration

-Realm Avenger : 75 000

-Yakslapper : 7500

-A pack dolyak best friend : 5000 (but could change since in HoT escorting dolyak will be more important)

-Repair master : 20 000

-Take everything in sight : 15 000 (the sum of taking camps + towers + keeps achievements)

-Going camping : 7500

-It’s quite roomy in there : 5000 (atleast more than taking keeps and less than camps)

-All we see we own : 2500 (atleast less than tower since a keep is harder)

-King of the castle : 750 (atleast way less than the others since SM is a single objective in EB thus reducing the chances you get to cap it)

-Stay out : 5000 (PRetty much the sum of defending camps + towers + keeps)

-Walls get in the way : 1000 (harder to defend a camp than any other structure)

-Stopped them cold : 1500 (easier than camps, yet still fairly easy to take)

-Nice view from up there : 2000 (easier than towers)

-Stonemist stands firm again : 1000 (easier to defend, yet it is a single objective in all the 4 maps)

I came up with those numbers looking at what I had accomplished over the time I played WvW. So I think they are still fairly too high, but not having any comparison, I did not know if some players were already way over those numbers.

Hello everyone!

I just saw the upcoming WvW changes. It’s pretty interesting and will make WvW less of a chore for those who spent a lot of time upgrading. Also, new players will have a short time objective to work towards with the WvW perks.

But what about long term objective?

In PVP/PVE the playerbase have multiples achievements with awesome titles. You can aim for those achievements, it seems like a fun system. You see those players with their titles such as ‘’Legend of the Mist’’ and others title which shows what you have accomplished.

What about WvW? Almost every hardcore WvW players already gave up on reaching the WvW achievements because the amount of time estimated to reach those is not evaluated into X amount of hours but in X amount of years gaming inclusively into WvW (Yakslapper is estimated to 7 years of non-stop yak slapping under the best condition).

Please change those! We want this long term goal. Make it hard to reach, yet not impossible.

This demand is a wish that many WvW players can adhere to.
-My suggestion is for Anet to ask the playerbase of WvW about how to adjust those achievements. Maybe you could make a Poll with multiple numbers where it could be readjusted to after we get a clear idea of what is achievable.

Sincerely, a WvW addict G(^_^G)

^
Roxy got that right.

I am also in a somewhat lower server. The server I’m in received a few guilds, I don’t hate them, but they made the match-up unbalanced. I prefered it when people had server loyalty, but I don’t blame them since there is no GvG system apart from transfers. The only way for those guilds to find fresh fights is to transfer around.

I think GvG match-up would solve the bandwagon. Just my thought on the subject. I would rather fight in a 1:2 ratio when the match-up offers a good roaming potentiel than to be shipped an army or my server which I’ve been onto destroyed to be bandwagoned onto the higher server.

No change is better than a change which force people into the meta of NA T1 and T2 server (even T3 is pretty much the same as of what I heard). Zerging can be fun for some. Not for everyone.

It is a great initiative from Anet. Let’s focus and bring forth a better wvw experience in this new map ^^

As for the argument about NA-EU guilds. I’m 100% sure many individuals in those guilds will be picked. Even if it is not the full guild, those individuals from each guild can test it out and give constructive feedbacks with their background as a player from a WvW guild. You don’t need your optimal team composition in a test map.

Just remember the days where you first stepped into WvW. You were probably not into a big guild at that point. Pop your tag and lead pugs, follow the tag, form parties with your guildies and do a guild run on a smaller scale or simply assemble a few individuals and roam!

Play it, enjoy it and give constructive criticism. This is what stress testing is all about ^^

Yea I thought so, not a big impact for me. But still wanted to know (looking at the possibilies).

Basically I was analysing the situations where -Axe mastery- which generate additional adrenaline on crit while giving the 20% faster recharge (+150 passive ferocity) could be worth it, considering that it compete with the new -Berserker’s power-.