Guild Wars 2

Eleazar.9478:

Anyways my issue with conditions being so strong is that they invalidate so many traits and builds. With power damage you can compensate by proper positioning, line of sight, well timed dodges, while conditions it’s always which skills well give me the most cleanse, and it’s created this weird meta were you really don’t care which condition you do you (save for burns) you care how many conditions you do, or you bring all the cleanse you can. (Most condis are aoe too so your going to get hit and once your hit your hit)

Yet another issue is if you get a ping spike, while your lagging the condis are still kittening you up horribly

Yet another issue is the condition meta makes conditions loose some if their uniqueness, remember when torment and confusion would only hurt you if you over or used a skill thus making you want to stay still that’s an example of actually interesting play.

Now it’s how many I can do at once, hell most fights now I’m looking at my buff bar more than the enemy player (when you have to stand on point and most condis are aoes with classes that can blink your going to get hit)

PS why did they have to change the zerker meta everyone loved it and condis were still there back in day people would actually run hybrids

Amen brother.

Loved that playstyle and WvW roamers loved that meta too… Now WvW roaming is dead

‘’Its one thing for Fireworks to come Green, but adding Blue AND Red is simply overpowered’’ on a Firework condition build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

Agreed that in PvP you only get the nerfed down version of condition builds (I stopped PvPing since the PvP icon doesn’t show in WvW anymore… it was around S2 or 3). But I still laugh when people try to white knight condition builds in this game.

Anet response to us (WvW roamers) abusing condi builds back in the days was to simply ban firework since people got so mad about it <3 Eventually they limited the use of those runes/sigils in PvP along with Dire stats amulet (and now Trailblazer) since it was unbalanced…

Is condition builds too easy for the reward it gives? Anet puts a lot of limitation on those builds in PvP… Condition is easy mode and you don’t hear much hate in PvP since the folks here have the nerfed version of condition builds.

In WvW forums, we simply accept it for what it is nowadays (small scale roaming died by the neglect of Anet and only the blob mentality remains…). Sad panda is sad.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

Jayne.9251:

Not everyone’s complaining about stagnation. There’s a reason why people keep playing this mode nearly four years later.

It’s that old adage; if it’s not broke, why fix it?

To be fair, WvW was dying over the years, and the populations in that mode continued to dwindle over time to the point where when going there, I hardly saw as many as I did in the early lifespan of GW2. It’s only because of some of the more recent additions that the mode has been revived, to the point where you’re actually seeing queues for maps again.

So what does that tell us? New content and innovations keep game modes alive. A lack of that leads to its death.

What you’re suggesting is that ANet shouldn’t add new content to WvW, simply because of the fear of breaking it. But if they were to follow that mantra, the game mode would be long dead and we might as well sweep it under the rug. Sorry, but there’s really no excuse not to develop it further, or to add new content. Sure, not all kinds of content are good, but to plainly say “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” as if to encourage not adding content at all, is in my opinion a very bad stance to adopt.

Yes, of course it would need to be tested. Yes of course it would need to be implemented well, but the same can be said for any game mechanics, in any game mode, in any game ever created. So then why not do it, if it does all that and still works? XD

To be fair. Heart of Thorns caused a massive drop in population. Anet fixed some mistakes… but not everyone came back after this massive exodus. Hell even a big guild in BDO is called ‘’Condi wars 2’’.. Figures…

Most people say Dire/Trailblazer is stronger because those builds can actually kill something while being tanky.

If you single out the damage without taking into account runes/sigils you would end up with very low damage output on a condition build. Runes/sigils do play a big role in condition damage oriented build. If you try to compare this to sigil of air/fire DPS, you need to remember that you need high crit rate to even come close in term of DPS… thus you won’t be able to pull those damage on a tanky set such as Soldier gear.

There is a reason why the old roamers and duelers were banning such build from Fight clubs in Obsidian Sanctum (the golden age of roaming and small scale fights).

Hell, roamers even pointed out how brainded such builds were by shifting the meta condition build towards Firework dire condi thief. Sadly Anet response was to simply ban Firework from WvW instead of correcting how braindead such builds were…We were ‘’griefing others’’ and thus Firework got banned… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

Agreed that good players would not die to such a build, but it still pointed out how high the dmg can get even without using a weapon as a condition user.

grifflyman.8102:

Stand The Wall.6987:

grifflyman.8102:

I think one big problem we currently have is the high dependence on Pain Absorption, it’s literally required to compete with an organized group and most frontline groups depend on this skill to survive a push.

give more classes group resistance and stab and we could see some new possibilities.

It’s a pretty easy fix and I really don’t understand why they haven’t added more abilities.

They should also revert the changes to warhorn on warriors, it used to convert conditions to boons and effect 10 targets.

Shhhhhh my sweet summer child. Frontline warrior is a meme since HOT and will stay a meme.

Silv.9207:

Pre HoT was really funny, but also depend on what time of “before hot” you’re talking about. Because after the trait+condition rework there was so many condi builds in game that the actual meta laugh when someone call it “condi meta”. Even more if you call the actual meta a “bunker meta”.

You’re right, there’s a lot of meta builds with mender but lesser players that use that classes or builds than who use the Power dps classes and builds.
Also when I see someone that don’t play the main meta 70% times is using a marauder amulet with an offensive power build.
Eles play as suports and don’t need offensive stats 8still if not a single ele play amulets like magi). And a Druid don’t need Marauder to inflict huge damage because the HoT pets inflict so much damage that is better increase the healing to keep you and your pet alive than increase the ranger personal dps. The pet surviving longer will inflict all the damage you need to cover the lack of ferocity between the two amulets.
Also a lot of rangers use dps or immunity builds and they don’t need mender to burst down people and survive.

You play a Bunker build when you use amulets like Magi or Paladin (the only two bunker amulets actually in game), not a Mender that still grant you enough damage to kill someone. I don’t see anyone use that amulets, not even druids.

The huge difference from now and before HoT is that before HoT there was classes and builds able to survive even in 1v3-1v4 easy for Minutes.
Do you remember the old decapper bunker engi? I hated that unkillable build! Or the elementalist? So unkillable that ANet reworked an entire Class only to kill them! Because, you know, ANet granted to necromancers tons of skills to corrupt boons ONLY to make them a counter for elementalists, otherwise there was no one able to kill an ele. Before that fix the main class to steal boons was the Mesmer, that had this chance/role since the game release.
And the dps? The dps was so low that even necros was able to survive in a team fight and his defensive statistics using a celestial amulet plus the life force granted him a really good survavibility.
Do you remember that a single 1v1 duration was able to be more than 4 minutes?

Yeah, that was a golden age for all the dps builds and all the active and reactive gameplay… or not?

Yea Pre-Hot is vague ahahah
I loved the meta with Hambow warriors/support guardians. But I have to admit the best meta was right after celestial nerf and before the june patch… sadly this meta did not last long.

I have to admit I had my share of fun during the cele ele meta since I ran a full zerker warrior with bullrush + axe/shield + Greatsword traited for the 3% dmg boost per boons. I could eat cele eles in a matter of seconds. Good old days for me… But agreed that this meta was pretty boring since you had 2-3 cele eles on each team…

As for reactive gameplay, I loved it when engis had magnetic pull and the likes, mesmers were all about that well timed f1 shatter and nicely placed portal (instead of spamming their shatters), guardian blind and aegis were primordial… A good guardian could do great, a bad mediguard would melt and cry because they spammed their ulilities and had no more defense… now DH f3 give them a loooong block frame instead of a 1 hit aegis. Warriors running Bullrush with a 40 second cooldown… Miss it and you wanted to cry, use it well and you could wombo combo eviscerate. If the warrior used hammer… that well placed skullcracker would often dictate the fight. I could go on and on… Even the ‘’trash tier ranger’’ put in good hands would do great. I remember a few melee rangers being awesome duelist back in the days… but good rangers were a rare sight :’(

So yes. The game was much more skilled and reactive back in the days if you ask me.

Silv.9207:

Phantom.5389:

That’s because every ‘’true power build’’ disapeared… You know.. the folks who ran full berzerker builds..back when we said high risk reward and it actually applied…Heart of Thorns killed those… they don’t exist anymore…

What you see now as a ‘’power build’’ is only folks saying ‘’the amulet have +power stat so it is a power build you know! Erp kitten ’’.

I would qualify such builds as support/bunker before anything else.

Yes, because Marauder (the most chosed amulet in the game) isn’t a Power dps amulet at all, it’s more a full bunker amulet… it have only Power, Precision and Ferocity, with a little add of Vitality and a little lesser Ferocity than Berserker. But ehy, that make it a Bunker amulet, isn’t that?
Seroiusly… 80% of players I see in game use Power.
At last eles and some rangers use Menders, but they still have Power and Precision to inflict damage. Eles go more bunkerish they can and use skills that don’t inflict so much damage, but Rangers can inflict a high damage also with an amulet with lesser precision and no ferocity than marauder/berserker.

Also Warriors frequently run in Berserker because already have enough hp and all the defensive skills they need to survive to everything, and also few thief run zerk.

Who inflict damage in this meta go Power dps.

Condition stacks can be removed by random AoE (by ele, ranger, engi or eventually a guardian if go support) adn every build have different skills to counter condiiton damage. frequently more skill to counter condiiton than power damage because everyone fear the “op” condiiton damage.
I run a necro with only the staff 4, the heal and the passive plague signet to clean/transfer conditions and I don’t need more to fight. I spend more activable skills to protect me from Power damage than Condition because there’s only few condi builds and a large amount of power builds and frequently in team fights I find my passive plague signet send to the enemy only conditions like vulnerability, cripple, weakness, immobilize and eventually few damaging conditions but not so much.

I don’t know if I’m lucky to find 4-5 power builds on the enemy team in every match or if players see that I play necro and they change to power to elude my condi transfert and kill me easier.

The only classes i see play condi are mesmer and necro, and not all the mesmer and necro I find on my matches play conditions, frequently they play Power.
There should be few burn guardian, but they’re the easiest condi build to kill. wait for the burst, active the condi clean and the enemy damage is reduced by 70% for 30 seconds or more. Incredibly easy to fight even with few condi clean.

Back in time the condition damage was seriously out of hand, with different problems of balance, but actually there’s not so much balance problems. In a large amount of team fight situations a condi build inflict lesser than 50% of damage if compared to a power build. Depending on the enemy team composition, even lesser than 30%.

If you play 1v1 against a mesmer that know how to play and your build isn’t made to counter condition spam and you can’t burst down the enemy fast enough you will probably die, but in a team fight there’s not a single problem about condition damage.
Also, if your build is able to counter conditions (the current Power Warrior for example) there’s not a single problem to fight a condi build and the only way to lose is make some big mistakes.

Condition can be dangerous and can kill you. If different condi builds focus you you will die, but that happen also with Power builds and Power builds will do it without any problem to see they’re damage reduced or resisted and really faster.

If you hate so much condition builds and are unable to fight one in 1v1 try to change your build, your playstyle, learn the enemy class mechanics and if you still aren’t able to fight one don’t fight it alone but go in 2v2-3v3, if your team isn’t bad there will be someone to clean your conditions.

When I play my necro, guardian or ranger I fear Power builds much more than Condi builds because they’re damage can’t be mitigated so easly and can’t be negated. if a power build hit you you will suffer all the damage, with eventually a mitigation by protection (also because no one actually use amulets with toughness and the Power damage have a free way to inflict it’s full damage easier than ever).
i feel more dangerous builds like Power warrior with tons of CC, or the dh trapper or the extremely boring immobilize ranger (that is funny to play because make the enemy totally unable to do anything but is really boring to fight).

Just try to play as a team and change your build.
If you don’t want to adapt to a little condition damage builds there’s nothing we can tell you and nothing that you can tell us.

I don’t know man. I don’t play this pvp mode since season 2 or 3. I only see what happens in WvW and believe the same must be happening in PvP to a lesser extent (since they don’t have access to Dire+Trailblazer amulets along with a few condition runes). Even as I look into metabattle, I see 2 marauder builds being meta and 2 condition builds… but wait… You see 3 builds with menders amulet being ’’meta’’. As you scroll down to the ’’great’’ build on metabattle, you see menders amulet and condition amulet on a 2 to 1 ratio against power choices. Yes there are viable true power builds. Is it all you see? Doubt it.

If I’m wrong, praise the lord. Maybe Anet actually did something good. But so far, what I see are boring builds without any aggressive utility skills since all they slot are anti condition with even the anti condition sigils on top of it.

I simply feel that the PvP was much more interesting when folks were not forced into building only around being condi cleanse machine. Pre-HoT pvp was the golden age in my eyes.

Shaogin.2679:

Kuya.6495:

The benefit of condis is that they allow you to be offensive and defensive simultaneously. With that said, one thing power specs have over condi is that they aren’t rendered completely useless by things such as resistance and high cleanse uptime (guardians and elementalists).

You do realize that in sPvP this is a completely false statement right? It’s no different from power builds. I always see this argument about how a condi build can stack conditions on you then play defensively.

Well guess what, that condi build had to hit you in order to achieve this, with attacks, likely multiple attacks to get everything stacked, and that damage will tick over time instead of all at once.

How is that different from a power build? A druid for example, landing a rapid fire and bristleback combo on you, then going defensive with Astral Form to heal up, stealth, and position for the next burst?

Some may say the difference is that the condi player still has damage ticking over time while playing defensively. Well of course he does (unless it was completely negated by a cleanse) because the condi player’s damage needs to tick over time to reach its full potential. That power player, it’s done. He landed his damage, he doesn’t have to worry about cleanses or anything, he got his damage in.

It’s really amazing how people fail to understand such a simple concept.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Apolo.5942:

Still pushing this BS line? people play conditions in WvW AND PvP thats how kittening kittened they are.

As a solo roamer to small group havoc. Currently small scale WvW belongs to the condi thugs me. On my Condi Chrono or Reaper. Players would have to be 2 to 3 times more skilled and better then me to win. Other then that I kills them because condis are completely balanced.

Nope I’m not going back to power in small scale till things change. Dire, and Trailblazer too good to pass up atm. Condition damage builds are too good to pass up atm. Hell I’m even starting to see Condi Eles, like wtf? Lol

When has WvW ever been balanced?

Daishi.6027:

Also Power Shatter is much easier to counter than condi chrono, and condi chrono has 4 ways to stack condis, while power shatter has 1 decently strong burst.

And Condi Scrapper is much easier to counter than Power Scrapper, Condi Druid is much easier to counter than Power Druid. I really don’t get your point there. Just because a build may be unbalanced, doesn’t mean conditions as a whole are OP or whatever.

I play Power Scrapper, Shoutbow Druid, Hybrid Shoutmancer Reaper, and Symbolic Dragonhunter. Maybe everything I play has some next level condi defense that isn’t available to what the rest of the people complaining here play, but I don’t have a hard time with conditions at all. I mostly die to power builds, which is also what I mostly come across in PvP. Teams are generally 1-2 condi, 3-4 power, and maybe 1 support, maybe.

Maybe WvW never was totally balanced. But hell it was in better shape for the roaming scene. Roaming is D.E.A.D. as it stands. Bacc when it was power meta, roaming was a great part of WvW and it was often a good selling point on reddit with some great youtubers posting great roaming videos.

In PvP, you got the lesser version of condi cancer since they banned some condi runes along with condition stats set (trailblazer and Dire).

But even without those best in slot itemization, condi is still limiting everyone to be a cleanse machine in term of utility choice. The meta had anti condition tools built-in with almost ever class… be it cleanse,resist or condition transfer, they all aim at countering condition application.

The golden age of pvp was when there were usually 1 condition build per team, 1 mobility class (thief or mesmer) and then the rest would a mix (usually 1 bunker/support and 2 dps).

Adrenalin.5719:

RedCobra.7693:

I play druid and I have no problem with these Overpowered builds you speak of. condi druid is a bit of a joke if you ask me. it has no sustain and little dps outside of using traps. which just make it even more susceptible to gank

Yeah, cause the best tank (who also needs nerfs) atm can withstand the condispam, the condispam is fine. rofl

That’s because every ‘’true power build’’ disapeared… You know.. the folks who ran full berzerker builds..back when we said high risk reward and it actually applied…Heart of Thorns killed those… they don’t exist anymore…

What you see now as a ‘’power build’’ is only folks saying ‘’the amulet have +power stat so it is a power build you know! Erp kitten ’’.

I would qualify such builds as support/bunker before anything else.

After HoT, my friend list who were Roamers/PvPers using pure power builds left along with most of my duel list (people who used high risk high reward builds and not those so called ‘’power builds’’ that you see today where they are not so risky yet still give the same rewards if you compare them to the old builds)…

-Seen any Bullrush warrior recently? Ohhh how I miss 2014…
-Seen any engineer without hammer? Not since HoTs…
-Seen any pew pew ranger recently? Nah… its all about druid sustain.
-Seen any meditation guardian with Greatsword burst recently? Nope. All about DH and their upgraded sustain from F’s skills and Longbow to stay out of ennemies range
-Seen any shatter mesmer running full DPS instead of chrono? Only in my wildest dream do I see them.
-Elementalist are in a sad state…. support, more support and more support.
-Revenant… they were the DPS to go during HoT launch since they were built with high sustain from their basic rotation and they still dealt good damage.
-Daredevil is simply a thief with higher sustain (dodge/mobility). Case closed.

Necros… I have to admit I enjoyed fighting Power reapers using GS and I did love fighting power burst necro back in 2014 when they used Axe+focus and staff or something like that. Sadly you mostly see condition necros nowadays and a rare unicorn power necro once in a while.

So basically, it all boils down to…. Is the game fun? For me it is not in this current state. I keep GW2 installed because I have a fun guild in WvW and the runs we do are still enjoyable.

But PvP wise? The game is pretty boring. Fights were much more intense back in 2014.

xp eke xp.6724:

Back to the question: they don´t nerf it at all, they balanced it.
At high pvp-skills it changes nothing for warrior, maybe one f-skill less what means he just need to time more then before. At mid and low ground it´s fine too, cause the players still not good enouth to reakt on the enermies action or they can´t react cause they need too long for that.

If you look only at the warrior it´s a nerf. If you look at all classes and patches before, it was needed to balance lowtiers, without changing too much at higher tiers

It´s one of the “all-playerskill-based-balances” that arenanet trying to do since HoT. Btw. some of theyr patches are for the future, like the condiremove of Seed of Life => one remove less and at the next patch they got one back if they use Lunar Impact as a blast finisher with Seed of Life (ohh and the dmg goes down cause he had no Retaliation) => means the class has the same like bevore it´s just harder to play, cause he doesn´t have too much of randomeffects

The sad truth has been told. Now folks only look at a class as it’s elite spec. Maybe Anet won their bet… everyone would forget shield bash is a core warrior mechanic and the nerf on this patch was meant for Berzerker.

How many core warrior do you face in ranked matches? About none. Shield bash nerf was unjustified. They should nerf berzerker since it is overperforming. But kittening leave core warrior alone. Core warrior is way more fun to play (even if it doesn’t perform as well). Berzerker is a brain dead f1 spam fiesta and no I won’t play it even if I have it unlocked. It is simply boring.

So please Anet. Don’t nerf core warrior anymore. Shield bash was fine for 4+ years and all of a sudden it needs a nerf because Headbutt + shield bash + f1 spam on mace while in berzerker form gave too much CC? I see a trend here that the stun lock was more a berzerker problem than it was a shield bash problem…. Anet and their logic <3

Aury.1367:

Phantom.5389:

Don’t worry. In 6 months the beta testing in pvp might be over and we should get the nerf that came along with the buff. Soon™

Did we even have that since… ever? Never saw patchnotes like “oh it worked in PvP, so we are glad so say that we implemented this nerf in WvW too!”.

Balance Patchnotes should be “PvP AND WvW only”.

Ahah yea. I was being sarcastic there… It is simply sad that they still think WvW players are ‘’really into PVE’’…

Nyhmfein.3024:

They could delete Berserker(Not like Anet wont push us to the new golden spec anyway) for all I care. Everyone know the spec was overtuned and needed to be toned down, but why shield bash? This affects warrior at its core, the skill has been fine for years and wasn’t too hard to see coming to begin with. Now using the skill feels more detrimental to the warrior then anything else, painfully obvious and how slow the animation is throws you off completely.

This is my thought exactly…. they just went full kitten and had to nerf everything related to berzerker… even if it means digging the core warrior grave 12 feet under instead of the norm… which is 6 feet for anything that is dead.

Zintrothen.1056:

- Healing Signet passive reduced. Good. But it needs to be reduced even more. Nobody’s going to consider the other heals till the healing is reduced to be comparable to the other heals.

I am totally fine with most nerfs. but why nerf healing signet when this also affect core warrior (to a lesser extent, shield bash nerf also hurt core warrior more than it hurts berzerker… since they got that extra stun source from headbutt while core warrior don’t…anyway back on topic…). Basically, core warrior is barely ever played and I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen one being played seriously.

Why in hell did Anet nerf healing signet instead of changing either the way berzerker get x3 adrenal health on mindless f1 spam or rework the trait ‘’Dead or Alive’’.. a berzerker trait that heal teh berzerker for 5.2k whenever he recieved a fatal blow while in berzerker form (on a 30 seconds cooldown).

Anet chronology : (1) We will release elite spec, they will add choices and core builds will be viable.
(2) Hot release : Elite specs are the true meta overlords.
(3) Anet try to balance things out and they want to bring core specialization in line… but only make insignificant changes
(4) Anet finally make big changes, yet they forgot that in step 3 they wanted to bring core specialization back in line.
(4.1) In the warrior case, the patch note clearly says they want to nerf the berzerker… yet they also nerf core warrior along with it since… I guess when Anet says berzerker, I guess what we need to read is : Berzerker is the new warrior and the old core warriors builds will never come back.

kittening kittens logic

P.S. Same can be said for others classes. I took warrior since it is my main class (core warrior 2013-2014 build are the funniest and also the most tactical ones… so I still play them even if I have access to Braindead Berzerker).

Well, it is a balance issue which need a fix. But it was not such an urgent fix compared to EPI. It still need to be addressed eventually.

Kovu.7560:

Remove that unblockable facet to encourage counterplay.
Then we’ll be talking.
You’re not going to see an epidemic projectile in a zerg fight, unless the visual effect is obscenely obvious. (I haven’t yet seen it.)

~ Kovu

edit- Though I think the new effect is actually kind of funny. I could see organized guild group members yelling “grenade” in teamspeak whenever an opposing necro launches an epi.

Can anyone work on a mod to transform those green balls into green grenades? I would love that.

Don’t worry. In 6 months the beta testing in pvp might be over and we should get the nerf that came along with the buff. Soon™

Swamurabi.7890:

The problem I see with the update is that there was only one instance where WvW was specifically mentioned.

Necromancer
Our biggest focus in this iteration for necromancers was that of Epidemic, in that its impact is too instant in most PvP scenarios, as well as its heavy toll on our servers.

It seems to me that if the sudden condition transfer from one skill taxes the server, what happens in WvW when one zerg hits another zerg and every skill adds a condition?

A three way fight in SMC caused lag in WvW years ago, before epidemic was meta.

Should the WvW version of skills have less conditions to improve WvW server performance?

Words of wisdom from an old sage living in seclusion analysing the WvW crisis. Praise the light (field) so we can hope and cure our condition problem (cancer).

Seriously, it would not hurt to tone down this cancer!

Sadly… they nerfed healing signet (which also affect core warrior) instead of looking into either the f1 counting as x3 adrenal… or simply reworking ‘’Dead of Alive’’ which is a passive on 30 second cooldown that turn any fatal hit recieved when in berzerker form to heal the berzerker for 5.2k instead…

So much could be done instead of making changes that affect core warrior too…

As for sigil choices. It is indeed quite limited. It is now a choice where you look at which sigils is not as bad as the next one.

@Cynz

Yea, sorry I should have clarified that thief can deal with condi because they mostly +1 (thus have less risk of being condi bombed since they don’t fight for the point control, aka they are not the ones who stand in the circle most of the time). But agreed that even then, thief run some condi cleanse on their kit, but their utilities are for the most part simply fabulous even if not used against a condi user…

I agree that those skills are anti condi, but some are also #1 choice against many power builds. Especially Withdraw which is my favorite heal on thief (bring back S/D thief anyone?). And shadowstep…. I mean even if it have condi cleanse, you simply can’t imagine a thief without it since it goes too well with what a thief want to do (mobility + one of the best stomp secure skill in the game).

Agreed that for signet of agi, a thief mostly pick this because the meta force a lot of condi cleanse (but the extra dodges are still decent).

NotoriousNaru.1705:

Killing off 3 classes is NOT okay. The fact that you people don’t see that is just sad, its literally like i’m talking to a wall. If Anet feels the meta is too stale and boring, they can shake it up in a manner that does not kill 1/3 of the classes in the game. That is poor balance.

I’m out, there’s no reasoning with people that just never understood the meta because they are too busy in bronze running full traps, or dps eles.

Edit: A good example of shaking up the meta would if it is too boring would be:
Nerf power rev, buff condi rev.
Nerf meditrapper, buff bunker guard.
Nerf 1v1 warrior, buff other stuff and make it a teamfighter or w/e.

This community should not accept them killing off 3 classes just like that because they felt like it, thats stupid. Maybe you like this patch because it wasn’t your class, but next time it might be.

I do agree that those nerfs were random and did not solve the issue. I simply won’t go as far as you and say that last season was nicely balanced.

GW2 balance took a hike when HoT came. WvW almost died out (at least roaming did) and now even PvP is dying (wich is sad since it was basically where I tried to find refuge after WvW roaming/dueling died).

NotoriousNaru.1705:

Nop, I told Anet why their balance patch made absolutely zero sense and the only logical reasoning for a patch so random and stupid was simply to prep for the new elite specs during the expansion.

The game needs to be balanced around top tier gameplay, and not idiots that walked through test of faith one too many times and claimed “traps are not okay”. This patch is actually so atrocious, and aero was right when he said it was probably by far the worst patch ever.

The previous meta, anet had finally reached a spot where EVERY single class was meta, and any comp could work granted the players playing those classes were good. The old meta had 2 classes that were basically on the edge of not being meta, but if you were good u made it work. Those 2 classes were druid and DH. This patch hit those 2 classes the hardest, and the stronger classes barely got hit.

Sucks anet had to listen to all those monkeys spamming the pvp forum about how they walked through test of faith 4 times or how they fought a druid on the druids node forever and cried OP. Anet cut their meta in half, and their biggest mistake was listening to forum warriors that have 0 clue what the meta really is and ignoring the players that know exactly whats going on.

Balanced maybe… but it was pretty boring. So much spam instead of what I used to play back in the days. GW2 prior to 2014 was a super fun pvp game where every dodge counted and where boon uptime was much lower (thus much more important).

nicknamenick.2437:

Let me explain why this is:

Somehow Anet cant fix this engine stuff or whatever but quickness used to work with these type of skills you mentioned, what happend is:

All leap skills or something like Rush traveled only like 50% of the distance
So under quickness you missed pretty much everything (same for Evi / bulls / shield bash/ sword 2 / rampage etc..)
Other skills had there defensive part reduced because of quickness like Whirlwind.. whirlind also traveled like 50% and its duration is also 50% so its evade frame is cut in half also…

So in the end its better to have a working skill compared to skills NOT working because of quickness, this issnt only for warrior btw.

This guy knows his math. Basically GS skill5 hit rate was at one point in time probably around 15%. This skill in particular went from, ‘’it kinda miss the target pretty often’’ to ‘’OMG I FINALLY HIT SOMEONE WITH IT OMG CAN’T BELIEVE IT!!!!!‘’ to ’’Welp, it only miss like 15% of the time on someone who is simply straffing left/right without any dodge roll or anything’’.

Basically, the situation where you would go behind your target and swing in the air and such was atrocious…. It is better to have something that kinda work than something broken. Warriors movement skills were always clunky, but we deal with it. We just keep quiet now because after all those years… I doubt they will finally find how to make it land on a nearly 100% basis. What we have now is better than what we had before.

steelheart.7386:

You people kill me most of the best builds were power last season. They make revs stronger using conditions and its OMG CONDS ARE OUT OF CONTROL. The Warrior and DH gravy train is over deal with it. This patch was mostly nerfs for just about everyone. And balance mostly involves nerfs. When you just keep boosting everything on everyone thats the worst thing you can do in general.

Most of the builds were ’’power’’… yea right…They were more like full condi cleanse build. I would call them anti-condition build more than I would call them power build. I’m an old dinosaur and when I speak about power build, I expect them to deal some decent damage. So I would include DH, power berzerker, Power necro and thief as ‘’true power builds’’. What do those builds have in common? They all can deal with conditions wthout the need to invest the majority of their utilities into condi cleanse.

Chonomesmer was the biggest condi build in play followed by condi berzerker and condi necromancers.

So no it was not purely condi nor was it a power meta. It had a mix, sadly the utilities in use for almost every build was basically revolving around condi cleanse and you could not really slot anything ’’fun’’ like an offensive utility such as bull rush on a warrior, arcane blast on a fresh air ele (RIP fresh air ele), etc.

Especially when you look at Tempest, engineer and druids… they were purely support/bunker. If you put any of those builds on a node… you would often need to wait for a +1 from either side to get into play before someone died.

I do agree that I much prefer nerfs to buffs in term of balance. Just wish the balance would make it so that core builds are viable and also make it so that different utilities are in use instead of full condi cleanse builds.

To be honest. I simply don’t see why they nerfed healing signet instead of nerfing how Berzerker could gain Adrenal health version 3x by spamming their F1 or simply nerfing ‘’Dead or alive’’ trait wich is a sustain trait for berzerker only… So core warrior got the nerf along with a patch that was suposed to be aimed at berzerker….

How many kittening core warrior did you see in PvP in the last year or so? About none…

Sartharina.3542:

As a warrior main – I don’t mind the changes to Berzerker’s skills (Arc DIvider and Headbutt), even though it screws up PvE something awful.

But why the hell did they have to go after shield bash? That skill has been fine and functional as it was for 4+ years (Though sometimes buggy with whether or not it cleared immob when traited)… just because some morons couldn’t realize that if a Warrior had a big, obvious chunk of metal and wood visible from miles away strapped to one arm and weren’t hiding behind it or flapping their other arm, they could expect a Shield Bash?

The nerfs to Skull Grinder (Reducing Mace domination) and Headbutt should have been enough to reduce the problems presented by Shield on top of Mace+Headbutt CC spam to being appropriate again. Now the shield feels like an oversized hammer, not an actual shield.

It is indeed an unecessary nerf. Shield bash was already being dodged/interupted on many occasions prior to the change. Shield bash is a skill used by core warrior too….. not just those braindead berzerker build… I’m a bit sad they nerfed core warrior once again while their objective was to nerf berzerker.

Nerf that also apply to core warrior this patch also include healign signet (10% nerf), Defy pain/endure pain (the 2s change).

Buff that apply to core warrior : Recklness dodge dmg increase and the axe changes… so basically we got flat damage boost (wich we clearly did not ask for and we did not need) but our shield bash got nerfed along with our sustain (wich is a lot more important for core warrior).

Can core warrior be left alone for god kitten-in-g sake? How many core warrior do you even see in PvP nowadays? Answer is almost nada.

Edit : If they wanted to reduce the sustain of a berzerker… they should have looked into ‘’Dead of Alive’’ and nerf this trait wich only impact berzerker…. What is Anet even doing?

Don’t worry fam. Anet needs to test the impact those WvW nerf may have over there in PvP before they can be implemented in WvW.

So power builds sigils are a bad things (burst sigils are gone and passive power sigils are gone).

Anet dislike ‘’sigils that passively boosted damage’’ while they truly love those passive +25% condition duration sigils amright?

BlazeQ.1095:

NSP has a pretty good population of “older” adult players. Many of them retired even. Most of my guild (PB) is 30+

I have to give [PB] on NSP a +1 for what OP is looking into. Even their most known commander is retired and he is really friendly.

All in all, you will be able to speak about many things with those folks since they are a community guild and they are always running on open tag.

It is simply a balance issue. Keep moving like Ori said. Their only dps comes from their well that they eventually cast under themselves. Stay clear of that and you are fine.

Sacrx The Machine from Redguard : The guy who got a lot of people interested in WvW on GW2.

NeXeD.3042:

Phantom.5389:

NeXeD.3042:

Cant say one way or another, but in my experiences the builds are different some of the strategies are different.

IN MY EXPERIENCES when i did do both alot typically i had no problem beating any roamer i encountered on a power necro.

To be frank. Roaming died a couple years ago. What is left is a cesspool for the most part with a shiny oasis once in a while.

Back when Obsidian Sanctum fight club existed…when Windmill was a hot spot and the spot near near south camp bridge had skirmishes happening 24/7…When taking north camp and getting instant response from roamers was a thing… That was the golden age of roaming. Epic memories were made during that time <3

yeah i havent roamed in liked two years… so thats the time im talking about. My statement stands.

I feel you. WvW roaming is still random encounters in the end. I had a whole friend list made of the good roamers… We would tell each others on wich map we would roam for the day and it was amazing. Sadly this friend list died down with time and I have to admit I don’t roam that much anymore.

For my experience, I tried to like PvP when roaming died down… Sadly the fights are simply not the same. Most people just play tanky builds and I simply can’t get the adrenaline rush I had when roaming vs high risk high reward builds (it is not really their fault… it is just how Conquest is meant to be played). Last time I played PvP (back in season 3 I believe?) I could kill my way up and face legendary players on a roaming build (core warrior zerker (amulet, not the elite spec) build of 2013 with bullrush still slotted instead of the boring full stance berserker elite specialization). I only played like 1 or 2 weeks each season before I got bored :’(

I wish there was a more fight oriented mode in Spvp…

NeXeD.3042:

Cant say one way or another, but in my experiences the builds are different some of the strategies are different.

IN MY EXPERIENCES when i did do both alot typically i had no problem beating any roamer i encountered on a power necro.

To be frank. Roaming died a couple years ago. What is left is a cesspool for the most part with a shiny oasis once in a while.

Back when Obsidian Sanctum fight club existed…when Windmill was a hot spot and the spot near near south camp bridge had skirmishes happening 24/7…When taking north camp and getting instant response from roamers was a thing… That was the golden age of roaming. Epic memories were made during that time <3

To be honest. It goes both way.

Some of the top PvP players did come from WvW (roamers). While some great roamers originate from PvP.

But later down the line. Those addict of fights usually get rank 80 in PvP and a somewhat high rank in WvW (yes roamers do get rank up, even if it is slower than zerglings). Those ranks simply tells how much time they spent in the game mode. And it is so easy to get both rank 80 and a silver+ rank in WvW that it is simply meaningless to look at nowadays.

You boyz clearly don’t follow the meta!

Chronomancer are slightly cough cough op if handled properly.

Unless something is broken in PVE, Don’t expect Anet to nerf it soon. We need a PVE focused group to run a raid boss using this (same as what happened to perma stealth condi trapper thief)

Resistance uptime and whatever else uptime is for noobs. Permanent Distrotion is the final meta : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqwaNU6kwKI

Welcome to GW2 Spamfiesta, choose one build among condition builds or condition cleanse machines.

Silv.9207:

*1*Power meta never bring more build diversity in the past and never will do in the future.

*2*Ask to nerf conditions is ask to remove that single condition build you have for “every” class and that already more or less no one use.

*3*Also, meta builds have a lot of condition clean skills and traits not to kittener the condition Damage but to counter the condition spam [of soft CC].

*3*I do agree that there is a lot of soft CC, yet if it was only that. You don’t need that much anti condi tools for soft CC coming out from those ‘’power builds’‘. My 2014 core warrior power build could deal with that much conditions even without elite spec. On top of that, I probably would swap berserker stance out… (thus no resistance) if it was only conditions coming from those ’’power builds’’ (short duration since they invest nothing in condition duration in either traits, runes or gear).

Hell. Core warrior is know for their weakness to conditions… yet I could pull it out and do fairly well without investing massively into anti condition if it was only those soft CC. What class do you play that need that massive condi cleanse while facing those ‘’power builds’‘? I doubt those cleanse are really meant to negate those soft CC application from ’’power builds’’. Not all soft CC need to be cleansed instantly.

*1*Back in the power build meta, I would see many different builds, I don’t know about you but GS/hammer, GS/LB warrior, GS/axe+shield, GS/mace+shield warrior were a thing and even Gunflame warrior build (even if this one was more trolly than practical). Guardian had medi guard and support guard with varying weapon set depending on what they wanted to do. Engi had condi builds and power build with a variety of toolkits in use (agreed that the turret phase was maybe a bit boring, but it did not last long). Mesmer had Staff/GS, Staff/sword+pistol (or the GS variant instead of staff) or sword + torch (or the GS variant instead of staff). Ele had fresh air, cele and support builds (agreed that cele was the #1 in many cases, unless the others were in really good hand), some used D/D and other prefered D/F while fresh air used S/F. Thief had D/P, S/D and to a lesser extent a few D/D (too risky) or P/D (condi thief).

I don’t know man. Back then I would look the scoreboard before a match and be like : Ok they have 1 guard (is he gonna support or medi?), 1 ele (probably cele ele since they already have a thief, going dps build would not be wise at that point), one thief (he will be a dps, condi is less likely so he might be a classic d/p or a really good s/d thief and break our backline?) their engi, better (flip a coin than guess what he will be, but since they have no condition builds, he might be the condition user of their team) and finally they got a warrior (he could be shoutbow or a zerker dps (as in berserker stats and not elite spec). The guessing game was fun because you had to adapt your team comp instead and choice of skills.

Nowadays… I see 2 guard (Ok we have 2 meditrapper here) 1 mesmer (chronomesmer for sure), 1 warrior (berserker, maybe condi even if I doubt it, so he will most likely be power smash em all playstyle) and we got an engi (engineer nowadays are all the same…no need to guess). In this exemple, I even took 2 class where you still have a tiny little bit of guessing… most of the times you don’t even need to guess. But overall we don’t really need to change our comp since every class is able to do pretty much everything anyway (unless you have somethign ridiculous like 3 thieves and the like).

2 I did specify that I am not against condition build nor am I against condition being unpcapped in the limit of stacks. But I would make conditions less spammy and more skilled play (nerf the spammability, yet give them hard combo or hard hitting skills that *you need to dodge as much as an evisc or the steal+backstab of a thief). Revert passive torment and confusion dmg. I would adjust condi cleanse as needed. I prefered when condi build (and power builds) had to actually plan their thing (I would also cut off most passives and auto proc without a real parameter from the game, see here auto elixir from engineer, blinding powder when low health and the like are mostly fine since you can easily play around them without wasting any cooldowns unlike those that proc when you land a hard CC on the target… Defensive stance (the trait) for warrior needs to go, the auto trap on guardian got nerfed, but I still dislike the mechanic involved…). I just want more action induced, adrenaline pumping fights instead of what we have now.

So yes, I would balance further than only condition, yet it is among the changes I think Anet need to consider in order to achieve a great combat playstyle. Instead of limiting gear sets and runes/sigils, I don’t know why Anet doesn’t balance the classes instead.

I do get your point. But a real power meta (where condi user existed, yet where the builds were not all centered around condi application/cleanse) did bring variety. You can look into my post history as I discuss the power creep wich is another big problem within this game.

If you think those meta builds are really strong vs other power builds. I would have to disagree. They only seems to be strong vs other ‘’power build from the same meta’’ since everyone in pvp run the full condi clear build (wich is more an anti condition than a true power build with tools aimed at killing instead of tanking conditions). If you used those ‘’power meta build’’ vs power builds aimed at killing, they would not do so great. since all their tools are doing the exact same job while before that you would run a few condi clear, a little stability/break stun there and a killer move in there as your utilities.

Power thief is basically the only current ’’power meta build that could still do great in a fight versus power build aimed to kill since they are basically the same.

Sadly the only counter play to a condition increase is to increase the condition clear. The (soft) counter play for torment and confusion got removed. Now those conditions will still deal damage even if you stop moving or cast a minimum amount of spells during the duration.

I have to confess that I mostly speak from a WvW perspective (where there is even more condition builds than the few there is in PvP). I know that in PvP, condition is not on the same level. So excuse me if some of my points seems far fetched in your eyes. In PvP, many condition based runes are disabled along with Dire and Trailblazer stats.

What folks seems to be misunderstanding is… Condi meta doesnt mean everyone use condi. It means the meta revolve around condi/counter condi.

Look at all the power builds being played in the meta. they are all using a vast amount of condi clear + sustain in order to negate the effect of condis. Thus shutting down condition builds out of the ’’meta’’. It is basically a check and balance.

Sadly, this makes build diversity kinda lacking… Every warrior runs the same boring stance build.

PewPew ranger, trap ranger or bear strike ranger? Nah. Its all about that sustain cleanse druid nowadays.

Chronomesmer… well they are condi themselves or hybrid at best. Rarely see any pure power mesmers nowadays.

Thief, well daredevil did bring a lot more condi cleanse than regular thief but their role is still the same (wich is not a bad thing on itself since that is how a thief/assassin class is designed to be played in most games).

Necro, they were never weak to condis. They can deal with it pretty well and even on a power variant, you still get a good boonstrip into condition tool.

Engineer, well they run a lot of anti condition (cleanse gyro, elixir gun, etc).

Meditrapper, well even during the time of medi guard, they never were weak to condi builds in the first place. On top of it, DH can deal pretty well with one of the meta condi build (chronomesmer).

So yes power build are meta. Yet those are anti condi power builds with many utilities/trait centered around condi cleanse or resistance uptime. I miss beign surprised by a Bull Rush or a Bola Shot into a big combo from a warrior. I miss those power shatter burst. I miss those good old magnet + pry bar into melee grenades combo. Etc. Back when the game was more about reading your opponent and determining wich tools he is running instead of simply looking at the class and you know that there is 99.9% chance hes running ‘’that build’’.

So no condition are not underpermorming. They are just being straight out countered in the current meta.

I would not change how you can apply multiples stacks. This is great if you ask me since no one overwrite the condis of the other guy. But some condi skills could be toned down. Instead of everything applying conditions left and right. Why not make it more skilled play? Similar to how you used to need to dodge that magnet + pry bar from an engineer, wich was a big skill back in the day. Nowadays condi is simply mindless play in comparison. I would tone down the spammability and change (upgrade) a few skills to become their ‘’big skill’’ instead of what we have now.

Look into shatter condi… every shatter apply conditions like you are shoveling dirt on people. Power mesmer is all about f1 burst while condi mesmer (even if f2 is slighty stronger) is basically all about spamming all your shatters to apply conditions and refresh and repeat. Power shatter is a fun mechanic since you know that you need to prep that f1 and make it so the opponent won’t dodge it, you can shift the tide of a duel while a condi mesmer, even if he dodge that f2 skill… you still have a massive load of conditions to unleash without a care in the world.

Maybe I’m alone feeling that the combat was way more interesting back then?

Ithilwen.1529:

OriOri.8724:

The matchmaker does this because the population is too kitten low, for various reasons.

Until Anet does something that can get a much larger population back to PvP, then matchmaking will always have problems like this.

You hit the nail square on the head. Good one.

Pretty much. The Elite specialization power creep cough cough I mean balance of this game simply killed it. Everyone runs the same exact build. I once used to have fun fighting folks I did not know what they would run. Each encounter was a surprise, yet it was fun (even if some say it was not as balanced as what we have now). Each fights would get you on your toes. Counting dodges and stability uses were much more important than what it is nowadays. Back then if you were caught pants down, sorry to tell you this but you were fu**ed for the most part. Nowadays you got more passives, more get away card than ever before.

This PvP game need a reality check first. Fun is primordial if you ask me. Anet need to bring back that thrill of the fight instead of what we have now. Match making being crap is simply one of the effect of this power creep that has been lurking around since quite some time (and made many leave). If you think curing the symptoms will cure the cancer…If the only balance change in the near future is amulet swaping… for Saint Nicholas sake… count me out of the next season also.

*P.S. But I do agree that a change in the matchmaking is a good start. Better somethign than nothing…

Silv.9207:

Another condi L2P thread?

6) Condi is Not bunker. Not anymore. Direct damage amulets have more or less the same defensive chances as a Condition one, granting you to survive with more or less the same defensive statistics. back in time there was a huge difference in defensive statistics between direct and condi amulets, now there’s only a little difference.
7) Condition damage Need Expertise but can’t use it. There’s so much condi clean and Resist in this game that is futile chose a similar statistic. It will increase the damage as ferocity do for direct damage but increasing the time the condition last. But there’s only few situations where a condition last for his full duration, expecially in a team fight. That’s the reason why only few players chos amulets with expertise. They need it but can’t use it.
9) Of 9 classes, only 1 play purely as a condition damage, all the others frequently chose direct damage because is better, faster or grant more self sustain (as for necromancer). There’s a reason why 8 classes over 9 use direct damage and don’t use conditions, don’t you think?

Lucky you, you got the mild version of condition imbalance over there in pvp…

As for those who say condition build need 3 stats to deal damage, the same as a power build.

In theory it could be true, yet if you single out a power build with main ’’power’’ as an offensive stats along with minor in toughness and vitality. You will be a wet noodle without much chance to kill anything.

If you use a condition build with main ‘’condition damage’’ (wich is why Dire stats is not enabled in PvP…) as the offensive stats with minor to toughness and vitality, you will still be able to kill quite fast.

‘’Condition damage’’ singled out weight way more than ’’power’’ for a power build.

Expertise (condition duration) is overvalued because it will often not even be needed because a) The conditions got cleared before the +duration took effect or b) the target is dead before the +duration took effect. Only in the scenario where the target survived the duration that include the extra added time does expertise shine.

As for precision, it is a nice cherry on the sunday for some condi builds (see here condi engineer with on crit condition application). For the engineer you basically get 1/3 of your crit chance to proc an extra added bleeding (with no ICD)… Wich is pretty bad. Most condi engi want only a little crit in order to score the extra 2 burn with the same probability as above… but with an ICD of 10 seconds. Since there is an ICD of 10 seconds, you don’t really need that high crit, you only want it to proc when off cooldown. You basically get a fraction of a fraction as a proc. Wich result in maybe a 10% extra added condition damage overall?

Seems like the numbers are so minimal that if a condition player is offered the option to go full dire… The choice is easy. For what I know, the majority in WvW do so. On the other hand, Solider stats for a power build (for duels/roaming/small scale) is pure garbage in WvW. Now… in WvW you also have trailblazer wich is Dire with expertise (wich is also not enabled in PvP). Basically, in PvP, you get a mild version of the condition builds. It is also a huge debate whenever this is brought up. Since WvW view condi like kitten while PvP players can’t see behind the amulet limitation that Anet only implement in structured PvP.

So, is condition easy mode? In WvW they sure are. In PvP? a bit more passive, yet not utterly broken since they banned many set of runes/amulets in order to bring balance to PvP.

As for counters, it is true that you can counter a condition build and this is why every power build that is meta are actually built around condi clear and sustain.

I do agree that reverting torment and confusion to how it used to work would be a good start. For the rest… they probably could make condition build using only 1 offensive stats and 2 defensive stats to deal less dmg and be more in line with a build using Power main and 2 defensive stats…

Got to upvote Kdaddy and Umbra on this thread.

Sorry Crinn but it seems you are not playing the same game I did since launch with my friends (and sadly, I barely play nowaday…My friend list took a massive drop with HoT and it is not doing so well lately).

Now I play WvW with my guildies every friday and saturday and then log off for the week since I don’t find as much fun as I once did in the game.

1. Well, as for me it all boils down to balance.
-GW2 used to have a pretty active combat mechanism where you had to ‘’wait for the ennemy to use X skill before using your Y dmg skill or Z CC skill’’. Nowadays the game seems to be on autopilot.

-Build diversity took a hit with HoT since elite spec are, contrary to what was said before HoT, superior to core specialization and not simply an addition to your specialization pool choice. Hell the idea of playing a ranged guardian, a support ranger or a melee engineer are probably the best success of those elite specialization since they did offer a new way of playing those classes…sadly the good points of HoT in term of class diversity are negated by the fact that the overall balance went down the drain. Each elite specialization is basically superior to their core counterpart. We now have 1 build (for the most part) to play with in PvP for each class instead of the many builds we had in the earlier version of GW2.

Apolo.5942:

HoT turned spvp in an invulnerability CD chicken game, get used to it.

Get my upvote kind sir, that’s the game we play (or stopped playing).

Mr Godlike.6098:

1.Most Pro league evacuated cause there is no end game for them and they have no opportunity to play 5 premade.

2.Those from Pro league that stayed are just bored. They que, it’s always a blowout, they win, that’s all.

3. Those who wanted to improve to compete with these guys are now alone with nothing to aspire so they left too.

4. Anet failed with following with hype of season 5. Grouchoru, a lot pvp veterans back to game, everybody wants to improve to get as high as they can…Generally anet has communication problem with it’s pvp community. Even on official gw 2 twitch nobody give a dam about pvp…like come on guys give us an answer to why we should play this game, give us some future perspective? And no – whole sigil talk is good thing but won’t make people hyped for future season x. When new expansion will show up, there won’t be anybody left.

5.Last balance update was a failure in giving something fresh to almost 1 year old meta so games became so booooooring and predicable. Oh yeah there was a rev tablet buff…oh nobody cares.

6. Pvp lost people from pve thanks to ascended vendors change . Legendary back worth completely devaluated over time (is there somebody that doesn’t have it after 6 seasons?!) Like why there is no new legendary for and new ranked achievement’s? PvP guys who wanted to try pve also kinda lost…

You forgot point 7

7. WvW players (roamers that also did PvP) left pvp since the meta shifted so much and the fights became simply boring. Before Hot, we enjoyed pvp and we queued once in a while when we wanted a break from WvW.

I play for the fights, if the fights are boring… even if you gave me 5 gold per match, I would not even play PvP as it is.

As for points 4-5, I could say the problem is older than season 5… HoT was badly received and Anet did not recover quickly enough when it comes to retaining the new players it brought initially and it also failed at retaining those loyal GW2 fans that felt they killed the fun out of original GW2. Overall HoT was a pretty bad Xpac (probably my worst one I bought over the years). The overall balance mostly revolves around elite specialization since HoT instead of balacing for the whole class.

I guess Anet kept up with their promise of core specialization being competitive /sarcasm This season, not even one core spec is placed in the ‘’Meta builds’’ nor in the second category on metabattle wich is that of ‘’great builds’’.

Well, for those who say condition build need 3 stats to deal damage, the same as a power build.

In theory it could be true, yet if you single out a power build with main ’’power’’ as an offensive stats along with minor in toughness and vitality. You will be a wet noodle without much chance to kill anything.

If you use a condition build with main ‘’condition damage’’ (wich is why Dire stats is not enabled in PvP…) as the offensive stats with minor to toughness and vitality, you will still be able to kill quite fast.

‘’Condition damage’’ singled out weight way more than ’’power’’ for a power build. Expertise (condition duration) is overvalued because it will often not even be needed because a) The conditions got cleared before the +duration took effect or b) the target is dead before the +duration took effect. Only in the scenario where the target survived the duration that include the extra added time does expertise shine.

As for precision, it is a nice cherry on the sunday for some condi builds (see here condi engineer with on crit condition application). For the engineer you basically get 1/3 of your crit chance to proc an extra added bleeding (with no ICD)… Wich is pretty bad. Most condi engi want only a little crit in order to score the extra 2 burn with the same probability as above… but with an ICD of 10 seconds. Since there is an ICD of 10 seconds, you don’t really need that high crit, you only want it to proc when off cooldown. You basically get a fraction of a fraction as a proc. Wich result in maybe a 10% extra added condition damage overall?

Seems like the numbers are so minimal that if a condition player is offered the option to go full dire… The choice is easy. For what I know, the majority in WvW do so. On the other hand, Solider stats for a power build (for duels or roaming) is pure garbage in WvW. Now… in WvW you also have trailblazer wich is Dire with expertise (wich is also not enabled in PvP). Basically, in PvP, you get a mild version of the condition builds. It is also a huge debate whenever this is brought up. Since WvW view condi like kitten while PvP players can’t see behind the amulet limitation that Anet only implement in structured PvP.

So, is condition easy mode? In WvW they sure are. In PvP? a bit more passive, yet not utterly broken.

Well for myself, I just feel like every power build nowadays has become sooooooo much more tanky and equiped with every condition clear they can find on the class… Are they still power builds? Sure. Does the term tanky anti-attrition build seems to fit the bill more? I would say so.

Hate it or love it, it depends on what you find fun in a fight. A lot of power build players used to play GW2 because it gave us that thrill. Those fight that could end for either player from a well placed CC + burst are my best memories. On the other hand fighting a condi build was basically an attrition war where the power build chased the condi build around (wich gets boring really fast).

Nowadays, each ‘’power build’’ that exist on metabattle are built with the new ‘’more tanky or more mobile than ever’’ elite specialization.

-Dom/duel/insp Sword/sword + staff or Sword/pistol + staff power shatter mesmer are now chronomesmer.
-Good old power medi guard are now running the tankier and more mobile version.
-Good old zerker warrior (as in the amulet choice) are now Berserker warrior wich are more tanky than their old version with stab and resistance uptime that are pretty scary. Agreed that shoutbow were tanky and could deal with condi pressure, yet they did not deal the same damage… you had to chose!
-Good old elementalist (be it cele ele or Fresh air ele) are now running the super tanky wet noodle auramancer… I remember when folks were saying that cele ele were too tanky…
-Good old riffle engi (and even the old condi engi) are less tanky than both their new improved version.
-Necromancers were still quite strong despite what people said. They were strong when paired with allies, but it is true that their mobility/stab uptime was their weakness, thus solo queue was often risky. They made it so that their weakness is less obvious with the Reaper specilization. Did they give too much? I think it was necessary, yet they made core necro weak in comparison.
-Good old ranger… welp. They did need some love right? Pew Pew rangers and trap rangers were fun… yet a bit on the weak side. But it did change the gameplay instead of adding to it. Nowadays, most builds are druid variant wich offer condi clear and massive heals.
-Thief were the king of mobility and they still are, they just gained more mobility and even more dodges.

Did the old builds not have condi clear? They sure did! But if you use those old builds in today’s fight, you will feel the aids creep up on you and it kinda whispers you to go towards that tankier version.

Avigrus.2871:

August 28, 2012 Game release:
Epidemic has been added to the game.

Back then, condition had a cap. If you had 10 necros doing epidemic… You would simply overkill the cap and it was pointless. Nowadays it is exponential since you will double the previous effect. jumping from 16 stack to 32 to 64 in no time. For sure it takes some time to set up → corrupt boon → epi and other necros also use epi on target. But the problem like it was mentionned is that other players get punished for the mistakes of their ally.

Best way to kill a guild group? Target the pugs (preferably a rev since he will pop resist and thus give you more time to build up the condi bomb) that follow them around even if they are not in squad (see here closed squad) and spread the love with 60+ stacks of condi! <3

ArchonWing.9480:

Haematic.4913:

Kekkei Genkai Kage.5930:

Player issue on ele, out of position to get ally buffss and cleanses :^)

Said player had 2,300 ping from the server.

So I’d like to make things clear. The player had 2300 ping average in this screenshot? Because everything can look like an insta-pwn with 1k+ ping.

It’s not like I don’t believe it could happen, but just making sure of the facts. I mean I’ve had 2-3 seconds kills on me because your average auramancer isn’t as equipped to have many instant on-demand cleanses. Also, hats off to them for still playing. I have trouble with if the ping hits 230, much less any higher.

I’m not Sherlock, but those condi seen in this short video were way beyond redemption. He would need a cleanse/resist from an ally in the next second, with or without ping issues. Those 2 tick kills from epidemic are not a rare sight, you can see such behavior in many epidemic videos on youtube.

¯\(?)/¯

What have they done? They still did not figure out that balance should be done with PvP in mind and another balance for PvE and another balance for WvW.

Every time Anet fix something for a game mode, they usually break it for the others. They only recently started to try and balance for PvP only. WvW is still the child that they kick in order to keep PvP-Child happy.

‘’roaming condition meta my friends’’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFoiGSiizHI